I recently came up with a Vorosh, the Hunter EDH deck. Its major theme is counter manipulation, which it does through infect/wither, counter buffs, getting Vorosh's ability off as much as possible, and direct counter manipulation. A minor theme is mana generation to help pay for Vorosh's ability. Here's the list:
So now here's what I'm wondering: which, if any, of the "possibles" should I swap in? And what should be removed to make room? Also, general comments, criticism, and suggestions to improve this deck are welcome!
Updated Deck!
I've updated the decklist, and sorted it by card type for more organization. I'll be copying this into the first post immediately.
Added Ana Sanctuary, because the idea of essentially a static +5/+5 to an already-growing, flying general is too good to pass up.
Added Ring of Kalonia and Ring of Xathrid because they add lots of counters to creatures in the deck...like graft ones as well as Vorosh.
As for what I removed to make room, I don't remember exactly nor do I wish to compare and contrast every card on these lists. But I know I got rid of the Woodlurker, and otherwise removed a few counterspells and the creatures I felt were the least useful (either due to low toughness, high CMC, or low utility in this environment).
Vorosh is hands down the worst Ana commander. As such I'm happy to see he's getting some love. I do beg of you to use [deck] [ /deck] tags though. It makes things easier to read.
Your deck is a little unfocused and I'm not sure what you're trying to do. I don't know if you want counters on all of your creatures or just Vorosh, or if you want to spread -1/-1 counter or what. Your effects are all over the place. I do recommend trying to better define what you want to do. It makes suggestions and cuts easier.
Avoid infect unless you're trying to kill people with poison and avoid wither for the sake of using a wither effect. If you find a good card that has wither on it than use it but you don't need to use a card just because it has wither. Woodlurker Mimic for example is all kinds of bad.
Add Master Biomancer. He gives all creatures a permanent buff and will turn Vorosh into a three hit KO without ever activating his ability. Woodfall Primus is another good one. If you plan to put +1/+1 counters on him than you can use him as a repeatable removal effect. Llanowar Reborn seems cute too. It also makes Vorosh a 3HKO without activating his ability and has synergy with Woodfall Primus. , or is another decent +1/+1 counter effect for your theme.
Thanks for the reply! I've never used the deck tags, so tomorrow when I can get on a real PC and not just this tablet, I'll see what I can do about formatting the first post.
I really wanted counter manipulation to help boost Vorosh's already-counter-loving abilities. A giant general is always a good thing! But as long as the deck is pumping counters up, why not include wither/infect? Seems like the combination would make for some good removal, which in turn helps Vorosh get through.
I wasn't sure about Woodlurker because of its green/black requirement, so that'll probably be one of the first to go when I swap other things in.
Master Biomancer is great! I see no reason not to put him in this deck. Thank you! Woodfall Primus is good, but at 8 CMC does seem a little slow... even in EDH, he'd require more mana ramping to really utilize him well.
So I'm getting the feeling I need more mana ramping. I originally thought I might when I did my land distribution and noticed the small proportion of forests. Any good recommendations for mana ramping cards to put in this deck?
Also, what do you think about giving my things undying or adding undying creatures? Is it worth it in this deck, or just too much going on? Or, and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, what about more graft things?
Corpsejack Menace seems like it should be an obvious include here? Personally I'd also run a few more ways of making sure Vorosh connects. Rancor's the first one that springs to mind. Aqueous Form is like Cloak of Mists but better in every way.
I'm a big fan of combining ludicrously large fatties like Primordial Hydra or Vorosh once he gets rolling with Dying Wish to make people second guess removal, and Rite of Consumption as an alternate way of pushing damage through. It won't be general damage, but late in the game that won't necessarily matter.
Hopefully this helps (as least a little). Your biggest problem will be in dealing with early-game beaters and combo decks. Since you're running blue and green, you can run Voidslime if that ever becomes a concern for you.
Additionally, I would get rid of the infect theme. Grafted Exoskeleton is about the furthest I would go down that road.
Well, I definitely think Aqueous Form will be replacing Cloak of Mists. I've never heard of Vorel of the Hull Clade before, but... damn. He's like this deck's soul mate. He needs to be in here. Doubling Season is something I can't believe I forgot about! And for some reason I completely forgot what Corpsejack Menace did, despite just learning about that card a few months ago -_- .
Kalonian Hydra is a freaking amazing card! Not only does that need to be in this deck, but it reminded me that I have a Primordial Hydra lying around somewhere... that would probably fit into this deck as well
When I get access to a real PC again, I'll figure out what to remove and update the decklist. This is supposed to be a fantasy deck, but... I'm wondering if I should start checking prices and make this a real thing...
*EDIT*Well, I just looked up the price of Kalonian Hydra... and nope, this is staying a fantasy deck only
Added Ana Sanctuary, because the idea of essentially a static +5/+5 to an already-growing, flying general is too good to pass up.
Added Ring of Kalonia and Ring of Xathrid because they add lots of counters to creatures in the deck...like graft ones as well as Vorosh.
As for what I removed to make room, I don't remember exactly nor do I wish to compare and contrast every card on these lists. But I know I got rid of the Woodlurker, and otherwise removed a few counterspells and the creatures I felt were the least useful (either due to low toughness, high CMC, or low utility in this environment).
I draft alot and Kalonian Hydra, atleast in my area is really easy to come by. My suggestion is if you have a LGS is to look and see if some people would be interested in trading, Otherwise the deck is looking extremely strong, I wouldn't want to face it. One scary guy you could always look into adding is Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon just to add to your infect.
My wife saw your list and she really likes the concept, thus We are going to be making one close to yours, Wouldnt mind your opinion.
@Everyone: I was thinking that Gilder Bairn would make a great addition to this deck, but I can't figure out what to get rid of to make room. Any suggestions?
I draft alot and Kalonian Hydra, atleast in my area is really easy to come by. My suggestion is if you have a LGS is to look and see if some people would be interested in trading, Otherwise the deck is looking extremely strong, I wouldn't want to face it. One scary guy you could always look into adding is Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon just to add to your infect.
My wife saw your list and she really likes the concept, thus We are going to be making one close to yours, Wouldnt mind your opinion.
As much as I love Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, the last update moved a little bit away from the infect theme. If I were to put him in, I'd be replacing Noxious Hatchling, but I'm on the fence about it.
As for your deck: the first thing I noticed is that you got all three rings in! I couldn't quite figure out what I had left to remove to get the blue one in. That will help quite a bit, I'm sure.
While Prime Speaker Zegana is okay in this deck, she really shines better in evolve/flicker decks, where her ETB can be abused. Consider replacing her with something which puts counters on other things, not just herself.
I see you're doing the opposite of me and focusing on infect. That said, I'm wondering why, given that focus, you don't have Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon listed yourself? I'm guessing it's a matter of your list being non-fantasy and the cost being too high?
@Everyone: I was thinking that Gilder Bairn would make a great addition to this deck, but I can't figure out what to get rid of to make room. Any suggestions?
As much as I love Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, the last update moved a little bit away from the infect theme. If I were to put him in, I'd be replacing Noxious Hatchling, but I'm on the fence about it.
As for your deck: the first thing I noticed is that you got all three rings in! I couldn't quite figure out what I had left to remove to get the blue one in. That will help quite a bit, I'm sure.
While Prime Speaker Zegana is okay in this deck, she really shines better in evolve/flicker decks, where her ETB can be abused. Consider replacing her with something which puts counters on other things, not just herself.
I see you're doing the opposite of me and focusing on infect. That said, I'm wondering why, given that focus, you don't have Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon listed yourself? I'm guessing it's a matter of your list being non-fantasy and the cost being too high?
Hit it right on the nail, luckily I already have a doubling season that I wanted to look into getting it into a good deck, This is my wife's deck and she is one of the people that only really plays with me unless I pretty much drag her to a game night, in which she generally has more fun than I do. So money wise Im not looking to spend that much. Along with that she has put her foot down on Zegana, she really likes her and its almost to the point of she might drop black and use her as her commander. As for the infect, I made the deck look as gross as possible considering budget and my wife absolutely loves it, she likes the idea of being able to kill me rather easily. So convincing her otherwise to take some of the infect aspects out is kind of hard.
Previous Deck - First Draft
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
Double Strike and Evasion: 6
1 Fireshrieker
1 Grappling Hook
1 Cloak of Mists
1 Protective Bubble
1 Tricks of the Trade
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Counter Buffs, Wither, Infect, and Manipulation: 37
1 Necropolis Regent
1 Death's Presence
1 Doubling Season
1 Inexorable Tide
1 Mighty Emergence
1 Quest for the Gemblades
1 Shape of the Wiitigo
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
1 Core Prowler
1 Evolution Vat
1 Throne of Geth
1 Fuel for the Cause
1 Grim Affliction
1 Plaguemaw Beast
1 Spread the Sickness
1 Steady Progress
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Thrummingbird
1 Viral Drake
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Cytospawn Shambler
1 Sporeback Troll
1 Corrosive Mentor
1 Midnight Banshee
1 Necroskitter
1 Noxious Hatchling
1 Smoldering Butcher
1 Tower Above
1 Woodlurker Mimic
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Phyresis
1 Phyrexian Hydra
1 Spinebiter
1 Tangle Angler
1 Toxic Nim
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Cancel
1 Confound
1 Counterspell
1 Counterlash
1 Dissipate
1 Grip of Amnesia
1 Hinder
1 Induce Paranoia
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Turn Aside
1 Undermine
Mana Generation: 7
1 Black Mana Battery
1 Green Mana Battery
1 Blue Mana Battery
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Cadaverous Bloom
1 Caged Sun
1 Dawn's Reflection
Lands and Mana Rocks: 38
13 Swamp
11 Island
9 Forest
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Golgari Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Cryptic Command
1 Desertion
1 Mystic Snake
1 Voidslime
1 Burnt Offering
1 Corpsehatch
So now here's what I'm wondering: which, if any, of the "possibles" should I swap in? And what should be removed to make room? Also, general comments, criticism, and suggestions to improve this deck are welcome!
Updated Deck!
I've updated the decklist, and sorted it by card type for more organization. I'll be copying this into the first post immediately.
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
Lands
9 Forest
11 Island
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Rogue's Passage
13 Swamp
Artifacts
1 Black Mana Battery
1 Green Mana Battery
1 Blue Mana Battery
1 Caged Sun
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Evolution Vat
1 Fireshrieker
1 Grappling Hook
1 Ring of Kalonia
1 Ring of Xathrid
1 Throne of Geth
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Enchantments
1 Aqueous Form
1 Cadaverous Bloom
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Dawn's Reflection
1 Death's Presence
1 Doubling Season
1 Inexorable Tide
1 Mighty Emergence
1 Phyresis
1 Protective Bubble
1 Quest for the Gemblades
1 Shape of the Wiitigo
1 Tricks of the Trade
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Cancel
1 Counterlash
1 Counterspell
1 Dissipate
1 Fuel for the Cause
1 Grim Affliction
1 Grip of Amnesia
1 Hinder
1 Induce Paranoia
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Spread the Sickness
1 Steady Progress
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Tower Above
1 Undermine
Creatures
1 Core Prowler
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Corrosive Mentor
1 Cytospawn Shambler
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Master Biomancer
1 Necropolis Regent
1 Necroskitter
1 Noxious Hatchling
1 Plaguemaw Beast
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Spinebiter
1 Sporeback Troll
1 Tangle Angler
1 Thrummingbird
1 Viral Drake
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Vorel of the Hull Clade
Changes:
As for what I removed to make room, I don't remember exactly nor do I wish to compare and contrast every card on these lists. But I know I got rid of the Woodlurker, and otherwise removed a few counterspells and the creatures I felt were the least useful (either due to low toughness, high CMC, or low utility in this environment).
Keep the suggestions coming!
Your deck is a little unfocused and I'm not sure what you're trying to do. I don't know if you want counters on all of your creatures or just Vorosh, or if you want to spread -1/-1 counter or what. Your effects are all over the place. I do recommend trying to better define what you want to do. It makes suggestions and cuts easier.
Avoid infect unless you're trying to kill people with poison and avoid wither for the sake of using a wither effect. If you find a good card that has wither on it than use it but you don't need to use a card just because it has wither. Woodlurker Mimic for example is all kinds of bad.
Add Master Biomancer. He gives all creatures a permanent buff and will turn Vorosh into a three hit KO without ever activating his ability. Woodfall Primus is another good one. If you plan to put +1/+1 counters on him than you can use him as a repeatable removal effect. Llanowar Reborn seems cute too. It also makes Vorosh a 3HKO without activating his ability and has synergy with Woodfall Primus. , or is another decent +1/+1 counter effect for your theme.
You'll want better ramp if you want to use Contingion Clasp and Contingion Engine. They are mana intensive but can be quite good.
Other changes can be made but until I have a better idea of what you want to do I'm leave you with this
I really wanted counter manipulation to help boost Vorosh's already-counter-loving abilities. A giant general is always a good thing! But as long as the deck is pumping counters up, why not include wither/infect? Seems like the combination would make for some good removal, which in turn helps Vorosh get through.
I wasn't sure about Woodlurker because of its green/black requirement, so that'll probably be one of the first to go when I swap other things in.
Master Biomancer is great! I see no reason not to put him in this deck. Thank you! Woodfall Primus is good, but at 8 CMC does seem a little slow... even in EDH, he'd require more mana ramping to really utilize him well.
I already have Llanowar Reborn in the deck's lands .
So I'm getting the feeling I need more mana ramping. I originally thought I might when I did my land distribution and noticed the small proportion of forests. Any good recommendations for mana ramping cards to put in this deck?
Also, what do you think about giving my things undying or adding undying creatures? Is it worth it in this deck, or just too much going on? Or, and I don't know why I didn't think of this before, what about more graft things?
I'm a big fan of combining ludicrously large fatties like Primordial Hydra or Vorosh once he gets rolling with Dying Wish to make people second guess removal, and Rite of Consumption as an alternate way of pushing damage through. It won't be general damage, but late in the game that won't necessarily matter.
As far as I can see, your primary strategy revolves around hitting people in the face with your general. Thus, you will need the following:
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Asceticism
1 Riding the Dilu Horse
1 Hatred
1 Bower Passage
1 Wound Reflection
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Vorel of the Hull Clade
1 Polluted Bonds
1 No Mercy
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Soul's Majesty
Hopefully this helps (as least a little). Your biggest problem will be in dealing with early-game beaters and combo decks. Since you're running blue and green, you can run Voidslime if that ever becomes a concern for you.
Additionally, I would get rid of the infect theme. Grafted Exoskeleton is about the furthest I would go down that road.
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
Kalonian Hydra is a freaking amazing card! Not only does that need to be in this deck, but it reminded me that I have a Primordial Hydra lying around somewhere... that would probably fit into this deck as well
When I get access to a real PC again, I'll figure out what to remove and update the decklist. This is supposed to be a fantasy deck, but... I'm wondering if I should start checking prices and make this a real thing...
*EDIT*Well, I just looked up the price of Kalonian Hydra... and nope, this is staying a fantasy deck only
I've updated the decklist, and sorted it by card type for more organization. I'll be copying this into the first post immediately.
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
Lands
9 Forest
11 Island
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Rogue's Passage
13 Swamp
Artifacts
1 Black Mana Battery
1 Green Mana Battery
1 Blue Mana Battery
1 Caged Sun
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Evolution Vat
1 Fireshrieker
1 Grappling Hook
1 Ring of Kalonia
1 Ring of Xathrid
1 Throne of Geth
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Enchantments
1 Aqueous Form
1 Cadaverous Bloom
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Dawn's Reflection
1 Death's Presence
1 Doubling Season
1 Inexorable Tide
1 Mighty Emergence
1 Phyresis
1 Protective Bubble
1 Quest for the Gemblades
1 Shape of the Wiitigo
1 Tricks of the Trade
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Cancel
1 Counterlash
1 Counterspell
1 Dissipate
1 Fuel for the Cause
1 Grim Affliction
1 Grip of Amnesia
1 Hinder
1 Induce Paranoia
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Spread the Sickness
1 Steady Progress
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Tower Above
1 Undermine
Creatures
1 Core Prowler
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Corrosive Mentor
1 Cytospawn Shambler
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Master Biomancer
1 Necropolis Regent
1 Necroskitter
1 Noxious Hatchling
1 Plaguemaw Beast
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Spinebiter
1 Sporeback Troll
1 Tangle Angler
1 Thrummingbird
1 Viral Drake
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Vorel of the Hull Clade
Changes:
As for what I removed to make room, I don't remember exactly nor do I wish to compare and contrast every card on these lists. But I know I got rid of the Woodlurker, and otherwise removed a few counterspells and the creatures I felt were the least useful (either due to low toughness, high CMC, or low utility in this environment).
My wife saw your list and she really likes the concept, thus We are going to be making one close to yours, Wouldnt mind your opinion.
6 Vorosh, The Hunter
Creatures 26
6 Primespeaker Zegana
6 Necropolis Regent
6 Spinebiter
6 Progenitor Mimic
5 Kalonian Hydra
5 Prophet of Kruphix
5 Phyrexian Hydra
5 Reaper of Sheoldred
5 Species Gorger
5 Vulturous Zombie
4 Blightwidow
4 Viral Drake
4 Fathom Mage
4 Master Biomancer
4 Corpsejack Menace
4 Tangle Angler
4 Hand of the Praetors
4 Notion Thief
3 Trygon Predator
3 Renegade Krasis
3 Plaxcaster Frogling
3 Vorel of the Hull Clade
2x Primordial Hydra
2 Thrumming Bird
2 Sporeback Troll
2 Blighted Agent
6 Death's Presence
5 Corrupted Conscience
5 Doubling Season
5 Inexorable Tide
3 Bred for the Hunt
3 Mighty Emergence
2 Ordeal of Nylea
2 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Phyresis
1 Aqueous Form
Artifacts 8
6 Contagion Engine
3 Evolution Vat
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Contagion Clasp
2 Ring of Kalonia
2 Ring of Xathrid
2 Ring of Evos Isle
1 Sol Ring
Instant 7
4 Rewind
4 Fuel for the Cause
4 Plasm Capture
3 Hinder
3 Grim Affliction
2 Counterspell
1 Tainted Strike
6 Give // Take
5 Spread the Sickness
5 Urban Evolution
5 Increasing Ambition
4 Demonic Tutor
4 Triumph of the Hordes
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Kodama’s Reach
3 Cultivate
2 Rampant Growth
2 Find Treasure
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
As much as I love Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, the last update moved a little bit away from the infect theme. If I were to put him in, I'd be replacing Noxious Hatchling, but I'm on the fence about it.
As for your deck: the first thing I noticed is that you got all three rings in! I couldn't quite figure out what I had left to remove to get the blue one in. That will help quite a bit, I'm sure.
While Prime Speaker Zegana is okay in this deck, she really shines better in evolve/flicker decks, where her ETB can be abused. Consider replacing her with something which puts counters on other things, not just herself.
I see you're doing the opposite of me and focusing on infect. That said, I'm wondering why, given that focus, you don't have Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon listed yourself? I'm guessing it's a matter of your list being non-fantasy and the cost being too high?
Hit it right on the nail, luckily I already have a doubling season that I wanted to look into getting it into a good deck, This is my wife's deck and she is one of the people that only really plays with me unless I pretty much drag her to a game night, in which she generally has more fun than I do. So money wise Im not looking to spend that much. Along with that she has put her foot down on Zegana, she really likes her and its almost to the point of she might drop black and use her as her commander. As for the infect, I made the deck look as gross as possible considering budget and my wife absolutely loves it, she likes the idea of being able to kill me rather easily. So convincing her otherwise to take some of the infect aspects out is kind of hard.
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?