Hello all. When I first heard about EDH as a format my first deck was a Zirilan of the Claw deck. Big swingy Dragons and sac outlets galore! Since then this deck as been taken apart and put back together more times than your average zombie. I've finally rebuilt this deck and I'm extremely excited to present this to you all and get some more wonderful suggestions as I've had with other decks posted on this site.
1/8/14
out Where Ancients Tread – while five damage a turn was nice, it just wasn't doing enough. Ruination – often sat in my hand. I didn't want to discard it or cast it. I've got enough with Blood/Magus Moon Warstorm Surge – See Where Ancients Tread. Too expensive. Molten Disaster – Again, never really wanted to cast it. And Split second has not mattered yet. Erratic Portal – I don't have any ETB effects other than on dragons, and I don't want to actually be casting them. Carnage Altar – The option to sac multiple things per turn hasn't really come up. Exchanged for the slightly more mana efficient Phyrexian Vault
2 Mountains – just for utility lands.
in Goblin Matron – fetches any Legendary Goblin. (Welder is so good he might as well be legendary (side side note, how crazy a commander?)) Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker – Just straight good. Doubles my ETB dragons, and can keep the tokens with Sundial of the Infinite. Gamble – Red needs more Tutors! High Market – SAC outlet. 'Nuff said. Skullclamp – Don't think I need to explain this one. (But I will anyways.) With dragons dying every turn and alot of weenies, I can draw ALL THE CARDS. Dragon Tyrant – With some advice and lack of some truly hard-hitting finishers, I'm testing this beast out. Buried Ruin – More artifact recursion. Phyrexian Vault – as previously explained, Carnage Altar was just slightly more mana per turn to use. I didn't really need to sac more than one thing per turn; in when this cheaper (in the long run) artifact.
A note on sac outlets while I'm on the subject:
While there are much cheaper ones (Goblin Bombardment comes to mind), card draw is almost the most important thing in mono-red. So my sac outlets need to be drawing cards or doing some sort of card advantage trick.
When I had my Zirilan deck, Dragon Tyrant was pretty much my "See Ya" card, coupled with Gratuitous Violence, it can one-shot people you need dead towards the end-game. Mana-Charged Dragon also was used because he's probably the only Join Forces card you'd want to have to tool-box to get a potential threat out of the way. Granted, it does require you to run a mana-double package which you may want to consider adding if you want to cast your general and dragons multiple times.
Have you considered Safe Haven or Synod Sanctum as additional ways to preserve Zirilan'd dragons for later use? Of the two, Safe Haven seems less potentially fragile, but the Sanctum would work better with some of your other cards like Goblin Welder and Trash for Treasure...
Dragon Mage, Knollspine Dragon might make for good wheel effects. Personally, I'm pulling Knollspine from my deck. He sees little to no use every game.
Cold Storage is a good recycle effect. Sac at instant speed so there's minimal threat to exiling everything. Belbe's Portal is a favorite of mine, but I'm tribal. Quicksilver Amulet for the same effect.
Hall of the Bandit Lord has done me a lot of good. "That creature has haste" is sometimes overlooked. Haste doesn't wear off so you can throw Ziril out on a cluttered board and Worldgorger during the inevitable Cyclonic Rift your opponent bought back last turn, or the two It that Betrays that Kiki sent your way. (Worldgorge dragon is bestest dragon)
I'm not sold on your high curve of non-dragons, but I've no idea what your meta is like and how all that extra draw is going to work. I built mine as a tribal deck and it's my favorite deck overall.
Have you considered Safe Haven or Synod Sanctum as additional ways to preserve Zirilan'd dragons for later use? Of the two, Safe Haven seems less potentially fragile, but the Sanctum would work better with some of your other cards like Goblin Welder and Trash for Treasure...
While I'm not so sure about a land that doesn't tap for mana (because this deck is very mana hungry. I'm often tapping out every turn), the sanctum might be worth a try. I'm iffy on having to leave 2 mana open all the time encase it gets destroyed. I've been wondering about adding Salvaging Station to the deck.
Would Salvaging Station be good to add strictly for some Goblin Welder abuse? Obviously I'd add maybe 2 or 3 1 cc artifacts, but is it worth dedicating all those slots for it?
Dragon Mage, Knollspine Dragon might make for good wheel effects. Personally, I'm pulling Knollspine from my deck. He sees little to no use every game.
Cold Storage is a good recycle effect. Sac at instant speed so there's minimal threat to exiling everything. Belbe's Portal is a favorite of mine, but I'm tribal. Quicksilver Amulet for the same effect.
Hall of the Bandit Lord has done me a lot of good. "That creature has haste" is sometimes overlooked. Haste doesn't wear off so you can throw Ziril out on a cluttered board and Worldgorger during the inevitable Cyclonic Rift your opponent bought back last turn, or the two It that Betrays that Kiki sent your way. (Worldgorge dragon is bestest dragon)
I'm not sold on your high curve of non-dragons, but I've no idea what your meta is like and how all that extra draw is going to work. I built mine as a tribal deck and it's my favorite deck overall.
Thank you for all these excellent suggestions. I'll just quick fire my thoughts to keep this already long post a little shorter.
Hoard-smelter: Possibly, but to get him and use his ability seems way too much mana. I always think why destroy when you can steal? (Hellkite Tyrant) Chaos Warp: I just don't have one. That's the only reason it's not there
Dragon Mage: Not sure about giving my opponent cards. That's why Wheel of Fortune isn't there. This deck does well at drawing cards. Throwing Knollspine out during an opponent’s turn nets me some cards. Why hasn't it worked out in your deck? Cold Storage: With the previously suggested Synod Sanctum it might be worth looking into. Kind forgot those cards existed. Hall of the Bandit Lord: Normal I don't have enough mana to both cast and activate Zirilan, but maybe for other creatures with activated abilites. Thousand-Year Elixir has been good to me.
Mana-doublers: Same as Chaos Warp. I just don't own one. Probably won't on the Gauntlet of Might.
As far as my curve, the average cmc is almost exactly 3 (without dragons), with a full 38% 3cc or less. Although I may gert rid of some higher cc things that are under performing, (I'm looking at you Bloodshot Cyclops. What are some other higher cmc cards I should cut?
Thank you all for your time and input. I'd like to make this deck as good as it can get. Let's show those 'red sucks' people what it can do!
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Sorry about any spelling mistakes, I'm typing on a phone most of the time.
Here's a quick reference to what mine looks like. I've been playing it for awhile. I keep making other decks and tweaking Zirilan as I go, so that list is about 10-15% different.
Hoardsmelter cost a lot, but it's solid reason to look for mana doublers. Of course, not the Might. I don't run it either.
You can view wheels two ways; Reds best draw spell and disruption. We can't sculpt our hands like other people. I've never been a big fan of single draw/discard unless I'm playing reanimator. I sit back and think 'Im done with all this' and draw 7 more.
For Bandit Lord, my deck thrives on the mid game. Once I hit 5 mana, people either throw removal at me, or get dragons to the face. Late game gets rough once people establish a board or get the spells they need to slow me down. It's why I like being able to give anything haste. Sending in a double-striking Hellkite Igniter. I think I hit someone for 313 damage once they let their defense down for a turn. (because I could, that's why)
Hey all, been running a Zirilan list for a few months now. Started off with a bloated dragon package (25) and some control tools that weren't really pulling their weight (mizzium mortars for ex).
As i've played and tuned the deck many changes took place:
increased the artifact ramp , currently running 13 rocks plus caged sun , gauntlet of power and extraplanar lens. also i got rid of armillary sphere in favor of expedition map (tutoring for valakut / high market / thawing glaciers is key)
on the topic of tutoring i also run godo, bandit warlord to fetch toys for zirilan:
lighting grieves , darksteel plate , illusionist's bracers , swiftfoot boots .
i ended up cutting all the looting and draw that i had in the deck in favor of making it faster. So far it hasn't been a problem as i can tutor for knollspine dragon or dragon mage to refill my hand.
btw knollspine is the truth , i consistently draw 10+ cards off his ETB.
looking at your enchantment suite i saw war's toll , looks sweet! how's that been working for you?
check out gratuitous violence or furnace of rath (if you're feeling brave) to really bring the pain. Also LOVE that you run possibility storm, so much fun, like jaya into dragon tyrant fun, lmao!
couple dragons to think about:
hellkite igniter -makes an incredible beater and has natural haste
thunder dragon -clears the ground chaff and dodges zirilan
rimescale dragon -needs a snow mana base but gives you a useful ability
that's way outside of the color pie for red.
dragon mage- wheel on a stick
another pet card of mine is warp world , nobody sees a mass tuck effect coming from mono red, makes for hilarious board states and hoses instant/sorcery heavy decks.
check out terrain generator and thawing glaciers , in addition to helping you get more lands out these allow instant speed valakut triggers.
hope some of this helps, cheers!
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5 Zirilan of the Claw
CREATURES
1 Goblin Welder
2 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
2 Goblin Matron
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Academy Raider
3 Rummaging Goblin
3 Burnished Hart
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Mad Prophet
4 Arcbound Reclaimer
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Hoarding Dragon
5 Magma Phoenix
6 Worldgorger Dragon
6 Charmbreaker Devils
6 Skarrgan Firebird
6 Steel Hellkite
6 Hellkite Tyrant
6 Bloodshot Cyclops
7 Knollspine Dragon
7 Balefire Dragon
8 Utvara Hellkite
8 Bogardan Hellkite
10 Dragon Tyrant
6 Chandra Ablaze
ENCHANTMENTS
2 Smoke
3 Blood Moon
3 Price of Glory
4 War's Toll
5 Possibility Storm
7 Vicious Shadows
SORCERIES
1 Gamble
1 Winds of Change
1x Sudden Demise
1 Faithless Looting
2 Wild Guess
3 Trash for Treasure
3 Molten Psyche
4 Aftershock
9 Blasphemous Act
ARTIFACTS
1 Skullclamp
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
1 Tel-Jilad Stylus
2 Soldevi Digger
2 Scroll Rack
2 Surveyor's Scope
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Reito Lantern
2 Sundial of the Infinite
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Fire Diamond
2 Rishadan Pawnshop
3 Phyrexian Vault
3 Mimic Vat
3 Sculpting Steel
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Trading Post
7 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Rogue's Passage
1 High Market
1 Buried Ruin
34 Mountains
DECK BY FUNCTION
1 Zirilan of the Claw
DRAGONS
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Dragon Tyrant
SQUEE & FRIENDS
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Skarrgan Firebird
1 Goblin Matron
LOOTING EFFECTS
1 Faithless Looting
1 Rummaging Goblin
1 Mad Prophet
1 Wild Guess
1 Academy Raider
RAMP
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Fire Diamond
1 Surveyor's Scope
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Burnished Hart
1 Arcbound Reclaimer
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Goblin Welder
1 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
1 Sculpting Steel
DRAGON RECYCLING
1 Reito Lantern
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Trading Post
1 Tel-Jilad Stylus
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Phyrexian Vault
1 Rishadan Pawnshop
WHEEL AND HAND SHUFFLING
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Winds of Change
1 Molten Psyche
GAME CHANGERS
1 Smoke
1 Blood Moon
1 Price of Glory
1 War's Toll
1 Possibility Storm
RANDOM GOODSTUFF
1 Skullclamp
1 Scroll Rack
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mimic Vat
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Vicious Shadows
1x Sudden Demise
1 Aftershock
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Gamble
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Rogue's Passage
1 High Market
1 Buried Ruin
34 Mountains
Change Log
1/8/14
out
Where Ancients Tread – while five damage a turn was nice, it just wasn't doing enough.
Ruination – often sat in my hand. I didn't want to discard it or cast it. I've got enough with Blood/Magus Moon
Warstorm Surge – See Where Ancients Tread. Too expensive.
Molten Disaster – Again, never really wanted to cast it. And Split second has not mattered yet.
Erratic Portal – I don't have any ETB effects other than on dragons, and I don't want to actually be casting them.
Carnage Altar – The option to sac multiple things per turn hasn't really come up. Exchanged for the slightly more mana efficient Phyrexian Vault
2 Mountains – just for utility lands.
in
Goblin Matron – fetches any Legendary Goblin. (Welder is so good he might as well be legendary (side side note, how crazy a commander?))
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker – Just straight good. Doubles my ETB dragons, and can keep the tokens with Sundial of the Infinite.
Gamble – Red needs more Tutors!
High Market – SAC outlet. 'Nuff said.
Skullclamp – Don't think I need to explain this one. (But I will anyways.) With dragons dying every turn and alot of weenies, I can draw ALL THE CARDS.
Dragon Tyrant – With some advice and lack of some truly hard-hitting finishers, I'm testing this beast out.
Buried Ruin – More artifact recursion.
Phyrexian Vault – as previously explained, Carnage Altar was just slightly more mana per turn to use. I didn't really need to sac more than one thing per turn; in when this cheaper (in the long run) artifact.
A note on sac outlets while I'm on the subject:
While there are much cheaper ones (Goblin Bombardment comes to mind), card draw is almost the most important thing in mono-red. So my sac outlets need to be drawing cards or doing some sort of card advantage trick.
Gahiji, Token Politician
Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or a Dead Sprint to the Finish Line.
Zirilan of the Claw; or Dragon Toolbox of Hatred
And yes, I did add Dragon Tyrant. Beats me why I didn't have him in the first place. Thanks ImpulsiveKnowledge.
Gahiji, Token Politician
Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or a Dead Sprint to the Finish Line.
Zirilan of the Claw; or Dragon Toolbox of Hatred
Dragon Mage, Knollspine Dragon might make for good wheel effects. Personally, I'm pulling Knollspine from my deck. He sees little to no use every game.
Cold Storage is a good recycle effect. Sac at instant speed so there's minimal threat to exiling everything. Belbe's Portal is a favorite of mine, but I'm tribal. Quicksilver Amulet for the same effect.
Hall of the Bandit Lord has done me a lot of good. "That creature has haste" is sometimes overlooked. Haste doesn't wear off so you can throw Ziril out on a cluttered board and Worldgorger during the inevitable Cyclonic Rift your opponent bought back last turn, or the two It that Betrays that Kiki sent your way. (Worldgorge dragon is bestest dragon)
Gauntlet of Power, Gauntlet of Might, Caged Sun. Mana doublers are the best way to 'go off' in this deck.
I'm not sold on your high curve of non-dragons, but I've no idea what your meta is like and how all that extra draw is going to work. I built mine as a tribal deck and it's my favorite deck overall.
While I'm not so sure about a land that doesn't tap for mana (because this deck is very mana hungry. I'm often tapping out every turn), the sanctum might be worth a try. I'm iffy on having to leave 2 mana open all the time encase it gets destroyed. I've been wondering about adding Salvaging Station to the deck.
Would Salvaging Station be good to add strictly for some Goblin Welder abuse? Obviously I'd add maybe 2 or 3 1 cc artifacts, but is it worth dedicating all those slots for it?
Might be a bit too narrow, but nice it still taps for mana, might be worth testing. Thanks!
Thank you for all these excellent suggestions. I'll just quick fire my thoughts to keep this already long post a little shorter.
Hoard-smelter: Possibly, but to get him and use his ability seems way too much mana. I always think why destroy when you can steal? (Hellkite Tyrant)
Chaos Warp: I just don't have one. That's the only reason it's not there
Dragon Mage: Not sure about giving my opponent cards. That's why Wheel of Fortune isn't there. This deck does well at drawing cards. Throwing Knollspine out during an opponent’s turn nets me some cards. Why hasn't it worked out in your deck?
Cold Storage: With the previously suggested Synod Sanctum it might be worth looking into. Kind forgot those cards existed.
Hall of the Bandit Lord: Normal I don't have enough mana to both cast and activate Zirilan, but maybe for other creatures with activated abilites. Thousand-Year Elixir has been good to me.
Mana-doublers: Same as Chaos Warp. I just don't own one. Probably won't on the Gauntlet of Might.
As far as my curve, the average cmc is almost exactly 3 (without dragons), with a full 38% 3cc or less. Although I may gert rid of some higher cc things that are under performing, (I'm looking at you Bloodshot Cyclops. What are some other higher cmc cards I should cut?
Thank you all for your time and input. I'd like to make this deck as good as it can get. Let's show those 'red sucks' people what it can do!
Gahiji, Token Politician
Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or a Dead Sprint to the Finish Line.
Zirilan of the Claw; or Dragon Toolbox of Hatred
Hoardsmelter cost a lot, but it's solid reason to look for mana doublers. Of course, not the Might. I don't run it either.
You can view wheels two ways; Reds best draw spell and disruption. We can't sculpt our hands like other people. I've never been a big fan of single draw/discard unless I'm playing reanimator. I sit back and think 'Im done with all this' and draw 7 more.
For Bandit Lord, my deck thrives on the mid game. Once I hit 5 mana, people either throw removal at me, or get dragons to the face. Late game gets rough once people establish a board or get the spells they need to slow me down. It's why I like being able to give anything haste. Sending in a double-striking Hellkite Igniter. I think I hit someone for 313 damage once they let their defense down for a turn. (because I could, that's why)
This deck is slow. It's red. And it's fun.
As i've played and tuned the deck many changes took place:
increased the artifact ramp , currently running 13 rocks plus caged sun , gauntlet of power and extraplanar lens. also i got rid of armillary sphere in favor of expedition map (tutoring for valakut / high market / thawing glaciers is key)
on the topic of tutoring i also run godo, bandit warlord to fetch toys for zirilan:
lighting grieves , darksteel plate , illusionist's bracers , swiftfoot boots .
i ended up cutting all the looting and draw that i had in the deck in favor of making it faster. So far it hasn't been a problem as i can tutor for knollspine dragon or dragon mage to refill my hand.
btw knollspine is the truth , i consistently draw 10+ cards off his ETB.
looking at your enchantment suite i saw war's toll , looks sweet! how's that been working for you?
check out gratuitous violence or furnace of rath (if you're feeling brave) to really bring the pain. Also LOVE that you run possibility storm, so much fun, like jaya into dragon tyrant fun, lmao!
couple dragons to think about:
hellkite igniter -makes an incredible beater and has natural haste
thunder dragon -clears the ground chaff and dodges zirilan
rimescale dragon -needs a snow mana base but gives you a useful ability
that's way outside of the color pie for red.
dragon mage- wheel on a stick
another pet card of mine is warp world , nobody sees a mass tuck effect coming from mono red, makes for hilarious board states and hoses instant/sorcery heavy decks.
check out terrain generator and thawing glaciers , in addition to helping you get more lands out these allow instant speed valakut triggers.
hope some of this helps, cheers!