MTG Salvation

I have recently came to terms that my biggest problem with Doran right now is that he quickly runs out of steam late game. How I have gone about to fix this is dropping the creature count and trying to increase the drawing. I have only played 2 games with the current deck and each time the deck did keep tempo alot better than the previous deck. So I am hoping I am taking the right steps.



Suggestions?

I've been working on a Sir Mixalot EDH deck for a bit.

Meekstone - Your stuff untaps, theirs doesn't. It wont hit every creature in your deck but it hits enough to push the odds in your favor.

Ensnaring Bridge - You can hold a smaller hand and just capitalize on being able to attack with your guys.

Recycle - Draw tons of cards, keeps your hand size the perfect amount to support the Ensnaring Bridge/Meekstone strategy.

Reveillark - If you tool your deck around 2 power, then this guy can get insane real fast.

Karmic Guide - See above... in tandem with Reveillark and a sacrifice engine you can reanimate every 2 power creature in your graveyard on a whim. (Sac Karmic Guide, Sac Reveillark, Rev trigger: Reanimate any 2 power + Karmic Guide, Karmic Guide trigger: Reanimate Reveillark) Also makes infinate draw/all basic lands tutored and put on battlefield with Solemn Simulacrum

Viscera Seer - My favorite sac outlet because it doesn't require any mana, and is repetable. Also being Junk colors (GBW) the ability to scry is top notch. Also if you have Recycle out then you you can help prevent drawing into those dreaded land cards.

Oracle of Mul Daya - Helps keep lands out of your hand. In conjunction with Recycle you can draw up more cards in hand than 2 so you can attack with larger things to bypass Ensnaring Bridge.

Thats off the top of my head, if I think of more Ill post em

I really like those suggestions, The meekstone will be hard for me to get but the other two I probably will be able to get my hands on.

Ya I thought about the Reveillark and Karmic Guide. They both would be great additions to the deck, My problem with the both of them is the high cmc.

But I do like the Ensnaring Bridge/Recycle combo

More food for thought! :3

Rolling Stones - If you go this path you basically have a ton of walls then drop this bad boy and swing for victory!

Palisade Giant - Has saved me from lethal or saved a key critter from burn countless of times. Also he swings for 7 which is awesome, and his power of 2 goes hand in hand with alot of the other cards I mentioned.

Heartless Summoning - Reducing the cost of your creatures by 2, lowering their power by 1 which pushes any 3 power dude into meekstone/ensnaring range!!! The -1 to toughness is really moot when you consider your average toughness in this deck is absurdly high. It does however kill off utility 1 toughness creatures such as Viscera Seer

General's Regalia - If you have the mana available you can redirect alot of damage to your fatty creatures.

Proper Burial - Self explanatory.

Preferred Selection - A not as effective Sylvan Library!

Sylvan Library - Amazing way to set up those big turns!

Magus of the Disk - Sometimes things just gotta go boom, and this guy is very synergistic with the rest of the cards I've mentioned if you don't include blowing up all your artifacts!

Tree of Redemption - Large and life saving... with Rolling Stones you could potentially swing for lethal.

Auriok Salvagers - A way to get back Meekstone as many times as your opponents destroy it...

Quote from SirGrizz

I really like those suggestions, The meekstone will be hard for me to get but the other two I probably will be able to get my hands on.

Ya I thought about the Reveillark and Karmic Guide. They both would be great additions to the deck, My problem with the both of them is the high cmc.

But I do like the Ensnaring Bridge/Recycle combo

I don't have a full decklist written up for my Doran deck, but outside of the main cards I mentioned, I run at least 10-12 Mana dorks. Walls that produce mana, or just cheep elfy creatures. It helps accelerate these large things out and most of them have a decent sized butt. I try to avoid toughness 1 because I run heartless summoning, but I still do run a few critters that would eat it if I don't have a way to +0/+1 them.

Well definitely get a decklist up sometime I would be interested to see it. I really like your concept but it in turn will cause me to have to completely revamp my deck. I know I am going to look into a few of these cards but I like where my deck is, yes majority of the time my deck wins with Doran but it still works really well without him also. Im worried if I do the Power 2 or less creatures that it will cause me to rely alot of Doran being out.



If I may ask, any suggestions of cards you would take out?

I have updated my Decklist with cards I acquired and with the Comm 2013 precons....suggestions as always is welcome

The first iteration of my Doran deck was big butts, and I tried running Fendeep Summoner, he just never quite clicked for me, does he do a lot in your build? I would consider finding a home for Oathsworn Giant, he'd top off your curve with Pontiff of Blight, but he also gives all your creatures bigger butts AND vigilance.

Elesh Norn is the Big But Goddes, if you want to go aggro maybe you should watch at here. Really strong.

Quote from CatParty

I would consider finding a home for Oathsworn Giant, he'd top off your curve with Pontiff of Blight, but he also gives all your creatures bigger butts AND vigilance.

Agreed, Oathsworn is a staple in Doran. I would also swap out Nature's Claim in the place of Naturalize. The 4 life is rarely relevant, but the extra mana can be. Have you considered Thornling? He's not on theme for big butts, but my experience is that when you overload with low power high toughness for Doran, you're hurting when he can't stick. Thornling has evasion, haste, indestructibility, and you can pump either half, so no matter what, he can get bigger.

Quote from CatParty

The first iteration of my Doran deck was big butts, and I tried running Fendeep Summoner, he just never quite clicked for me, does he do a lot in your build? I would consider finding a home for Oathsworn Giant, he'd top off your curve with Pontiff of Blight, but he also gives all your creatures bigger butts AND vigilance.

Fendeep has been on the fence and will most likely be taken out, and Oathsworn will be a wonderful replacement, Thanks alot CatParty like always you have been helpful

Quote from Gabgabdevo

Elesh Norn is the Big But Goddes, if you want to go aggro maybe you should watch at here. Really strong.

I completely agree on Norn being a Big Butt Goddess, she is though very hard to obtain in my area, and as of right now I am not purchasing anything online. I have been trying to trade for her ever since I first made Doran. (alittle over 8 months now)

Quote from cryogen

Agreed, Oathsworn is a staple in Doran. I would also swap out Nature's Claim in the place of Naturalize. The 4 life is rarely relevant, but the extra mana can be. Have you considered Thornling? He's not on theme for big butts, but my experience is that when you overload with low power high toughness for Doran, you're hurting when he can't stick. Thornling has evasion, haste, indestructibility, and you can pump either half, so no matter what, he can get bigger.

I did just recently cut Naturalize last night, I got invited to play at a more competitive meta and so I did some last minute changes to the decks to try and tune them so they are alittle less casual. As for Thornling he will definitely be considered if any of my beaters that have a higher power does not make the next cut. I was currently working on dropping every Creature with a power 3 or greater but then I realized that I might want to look into keeping a few just in case Doran gets tucked. So he does have a shot thanks alot Cryo. Your Primer has helped greatly btw thanks



EDIT: I updated the deck with the changes I made to it last night.

I am starting to feel like this deck is durdling alot, any suggestions for card draw/tempo? I find once I play out my hand I am top decking the rest of the game and I feel as though it is hurting the deck alot. Should I look into Black Card Draw such as Phyrexian Arena and such?

Also I feel like the deck ramps up really well now should I maybe cut back the ramp for the card draw?

Black has Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, and even old sucky Greed. If you don't mind the lifeless there's also Dark Tutelage. Green has Sylvan Library and Mirari's Guile (the latter is only top deck manipulation, but works with all the shuffling you do).

Here's also decent card draw sorceries, but I prefer slow card advantage over quick bursts.

Quote from cryogen

Black has Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, and even old sucky Greed. If you don't mind the lifeless there's also Dark Tutelage. Green has Sylvan Library and Mirari's Guile (the latter is only top deck manipulation, but works with all the shuffling you do).

Here's also decent card draw sorceries, but I prefer slow card advantage over quick bursts.

Ya Im pretty sure I would be happy with just slow card draw over the burst, I have a hatred against Necro. Ive tried it multiple times in other decks and it just didnt do enough for me, all it ended up doing was killing me in the long run.

Really could use some suggestions on what to cut for the cards Im considering. I know I am cutting Fendeep Summoner & Ordeal of Nylea but thats 2 cards out of the potential 8 I would be adding. or out of the Potential adds are any of them not worth putting into the deck?

I'm not a fan of all the lifegain - it is neat and all, but Congregate and Rhox Faithmender kind of detract from the deck. I also question the defenders, as you are not going whole-hog with them by adding things like Wakestone Gargoyle for a surprise offensive.

Both Aven Warcraft and Conclave's Blessing look interesting for budget big butts. Shield Wall to provide an interesting alpha strike?

I have long been a fan of scrying, with Crystal Ball and Read the Bones being personal favorites in the colors you are running (you already have Reaoer of the Wilds).

My compliments on Skinshifter being here - a 0/8 plant is scary alongside Doran!

Cheers!

Quote from SirGrizz

Really could use some suggestions on what to cut for the cards Im considering. I know I am cutting Fendeep Summoner & Ordeal of Nylea but thats 2 cards out of the potential 8 I would be adding. or out of the Potential adds are any of them not worth putting into the deck?

Other than Indomitable Ancients, the Treefolk you're running feel forced, and you're not running sufficient quantities to get full value.

Quote from cryogen

Other than Indomitable Ancients, the Treefolk you're running feel forced, and you're not running sufficient quantities to get full value.

I can agree with this for Unstoppable Ash & Timber Protector. But Leaf-Crowned Elder, Treefolk Harbinger & Bosk Banneret all help other cards in the deck, do you feel they should be dropped and focused on other cards?


Also @krichaiushii thanks for for Conclave's blessing that is definitely going into the deck, congregate has been on the fence alot, Ive taken it out and put it back in, multiple games it would save me from swarms. You can look past the Lifegain from Rhox Faithmender and see that he is a 1/5 meaning he can swing freely with meekstone, and with his lifelink and double lifegain he is just really hard to take out

Harbinger is decent because it can find a tucked Doran or smooth out a rough draw, but personally I don't think there are enough Treefolk or Shaman to make the rest useful. If they work for you, great. I'll be honest, it's been quite some time since I pushed tribal cards in my build, but they didn't work that well for me as I recall. They could just as easily be replaced with Lurking Predators and Emerald Medallion, though.

I have another card on the fence that I wouldnt mind someone else's opinion on the matter, Primeval Bounty It is an amazing card but I find by the time I play it I am top decking the rest of the game so it feels like it just doesnt do enough for the cost...Opinions?

Quote from SirGrizz

I have another card on the fence that I wouldnt mind someone else's opinion on the matter, Primeval Bounty It is an amazing card but I find by the time I play it I am top decking the rest of the game so it feels like it just doesnt do enough for the cost...Opinions?

I usually consider Primeval Bounty sort of a winmore card.

1) It does a lot of little useful things but really slowly and not very explosively. This means that if you are looking to get a huge beater or a swarm of tokens, its going to take several turns to do it.

2) It has a high cost to drop with no immediate results on its own. This possibly means passing turn without having done anything.

I like a lot of what it does, but the more sweeper effects you encounter, the less productive it really is. I have really rarely seen a situation where I felt like the results from the card are what really were the cause of ending a game. I like to watch someone cast it and then take a big turn of blowing his entire hand so I can come along with an Oblivion Stone and wipe them out. Its sort of what I would consider an over expansion style of card. It has slow results and its progress is easily undone by any sort of wrath card.

I was looking at some Big Butt Flavor Creatures and cards I think would be fun for this deck. Opinions on these guys

• 5 Unburial Rites
  
• 5 Vraska the Unseen
  
• 4 Trostani, Selesnya’s Voice
  
• 4 Blessed Orator
  
• 4 Kami of Old Stone
  
• 3 Aura Shards
  
• 3 Village Bell-Ringer
  

Edit: Looking at Myr Welder more and thinking about my Meta, the activated Ability aspect made me want to say nevermind on that

Quote from SirGrizz

I was looking at some Big Butt Flavor Creatures and cards I think would be fun for this deck. Opinions on these guys

• 5 Unburial Rites
  
• 5 Vraska the Unseen
  
• 4 Trostani, Selesnya’s Voice
  
• 4 Blessed Orator
  
• 4 Kami of Old Stone
  
• 3 Myr Welder
  
• 3 Aura Shards
  
• 3 Village Bell Ringer
  

Unburial Rites I love it as a card but its extremely dependent on your own graveyard. You have to have targets in your grave, and then you need to not have anyone strip it out of your grave before you flash it back. I think its much stronger than something like Zombify but on the flip side, it is dependent on your own graveyard. I tend to prefer to rez from any graveyard whenever possible. If looking at just rez from your own bin then you need to be getting a lot of extra from it. Its not a bad card by any means, but I tend to like things like Necromancy over it just for the fact that its so versatile and can be rezed by things like Sun Titan when playing BW. Its not a bad choice, but I personally like to widen the rez options to anyone's grave like I was saying.

Vraska the Unseen the closest comparison is sort of to Karn Liberated. She doesn't exile and she cant be used twice in a row though. I usually prefer running Vindicate and Maelstrom Pulse over her and you are in the colors to do so. The only real redeeming quality is that she is cheaper $$$ than both of those options. I would say she is.... ok if you are looking for a budget alternative but its not where I would ideally really go. She needs to hit play and stick for a few turns to really get her value back which is why I dont much care for her. If she doesn't stick for her third activation she is mostly a worse Vindicate / Maelstrom Pulse.

Trostani, Selesnya's Voice My biggest concerns here would be

1) the mana to cast her seems extremely demanding to hit 4 colored mana on turn 4 so I would look at this expecting you wont hit it on curve normally speaking even with a god mana setup (which I dont think you have offhand).
2) Lifegain is very situational in nature as to how much it works. It tends to be better in metas that aren't combo based but it still brings up the question of voltron and infect. If you see a lot of pressure decks or just random drain effect decks its a great effect to pack though.
3) The populate is mostly a miss. Its hard to build arround the mechanic and offhand I dont think you are really set up to use it.

All that aside, I think it brings a good amount of utility to different angles of the deck. I think its better than a lot of the other vanilla beaters you were considering.

Blessed Orator vanilla creatures are not so great, neither are small anthem effects. I dont see enough value potential here.

Kami of Old Stone I dont like vanilla beaters.

Myr Welder as a vanilla beater, I dont like it. Its ability seems, mostly irrelevant enough that I think its still mostly a vanilla beater. If you need some grave hate for artifacts its ok but a 4/4 for 3 still isn't that great even for EDH.

Aura Shards its a good card. It has a huge target on its face though so I tend to prefer it more in token based decks or decks that can reliably get triggers quickly after dropping it.

Village Bell-Ringer amusing, but I dont think it packs enough power really. It reminds me more of a combat trick like a giant growth on a stick than anything. Its.... probably a bit stronger than some of the other vanilla beaters you mentioned but not strong enough that I think I would play it.

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Personally, I would probably consider Aura Shards, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, and possibly Vraska the Unseen of the ones you mentioned.

Thanks alot ISB I have gotten to a point of where It feels like I am changing Doran every couple of weeks and I need to find something that works with him and go with it. I greatly apperciate your opinion and gonna do some hard thinking. right now the deck Durdles alot. It comes out swinging extremely hard then once it gets to the point of Top Decking it slows down greatly.

Quote from SirGrizz

Thanks alot ISB I have gotten to a point of where It feels like I am changing Doran every couple of weeks and I need to find something that works with him and go with it. I greatly apperciate your opinion and gonna do some hard thinking. right now the deck Durdles alot. It comes out swinging extremely hard then once it gets to the point of Top Decking it slows down greatly.

Like you said, things that just beat can sometimes be explosive in the early game, but those things tend to run out of steam quickly because its creatures didn't generate additional value.

You could also consider running just less of the creatures that do that sort of thing and add some card draw to the deck to try to get some sustainability. It would take away from your explosiveness a little but Doran is fairly explosive on his own.