Hate to make yet another thread about this guy but here's my take on Roon! I played him in the precon and every time he hit the table he ate removal so I'm very hesitant to actually build him! Anyhoo this is what I came up with on paper and played a few games with online. As always any and all input is welcome and appreciated!
Your version of the deck is a bit less single-mindedly blink/ETB focused than a lot of the builds that have been making the rounds, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It does mean though that cards like Vigor and Liege of the Tangle don't interact with your general in the way that, say, Soul of the Harvest or Craterhoof Behemoth might. Again, not a bad thing, but just a different build.
On obvious straight-up upgrade would be replacing Quirion Trailblazer with Ondu Giant. Same card basically, but bigger stats. I recommend looking over the other threads running around on the first few pages. There's some good ideas bouncing around in both of the ones I've been reading.
One thing I do want to point out - you can definitely add really powerful cards like Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail without creating infinite combos. Leave out Palinchron and Time Walk effects and you're probably good. Anyway, look forward to seeing where you go with your build!
Your version of the deck is a bit less single-mindedly blink/ETB focused than a lot of the builds that have been making the rounds, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It does mean though that cards like Vigor and Liege of the Tangle don't interact with your general in the way that, say, Soul of the Harvest or Craterhoof Behemoth might. Again, not a bad thing, but just a different build.
On obvious straight-up upgrade would be replacing Quirion Trailblazer with Ondu Giant. Same card basically, but bigger stats. I recommend looking over the other threads running around on the first few pages. There's some good ideas bouncing around in both of the ones I've been reading.
One thing I do want to point out - you can definitely add really powerful cards like Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail without creating infinite combos. Leave out Palinchron and Time Walk effects and you're probably good. Anyway, look forward to seeing where you go with your build!
Yeah, the only reason I have Vigor and Liege of the Tangle in there is for a few big nasty wincons. Maybe there are some big scary dudes that have ETB effects I can use as wincons instead? I really like the ETB/blink plan and thought I was pretty heavy on abusing those effects.
I've done some thinking and I want the deck to be all in on the blink plan but not completely reliant on the general to do it. I want to try to stick to a theme (not at the expense of being a crappy deck or losing games) and keep this from becoming Bant goodstuff. Maybe that was my problem before.
Craterhoof Behemoth and Avenger of Zendikar are probably your best bets on that front. Craterhoof adds a lot of power to the board at once if you have a decent board state, and Avenger of Zendikar is an army in a can that you can blink to get an even bigger army. And when you combine the two...scary results. The only problem with blinking Craterhoof is that Roon makes him come back at end-of-turn, so you'd have to use a different blink enabler in order to get the power boost for combat. That means cards like Mistmeadow Witch, Momentary Blink, Ghostly Flicker etc. Mistmeadow Witch I think for sure you could run. The instant cards are more up to personal preference but you can always buy them back with Eternal Witness, Archaeomancer, or Mnemonic Wall.
Of course, getting infinite mana and then proceeding to blow up all noncreature permanents with Sylvan Primordial and exiling things with Luminate is also a nice way to win, but barring that, eking out incremental advantages through blinking value ETB creatures is the plan.
Hey! Came to glance at your list. You've seem mine, so obviously you know what I think you should be running, but if you're looking for a little more balance without going completely all in on blink like I did, but still abusing the mechanic, here's my advice.
Try to replace spells with creatures that do the same thing. spell draw and spell ramp can easily be done with a creature instead. To a lesser extent, removal as well. I don't run any spell ramp, draw, or removal myself. I just run creatures, ways to tutor for them, and ways to reuse it. I often have better control and removal than the dedicated spell based control decks for this reason.
Put in more tutors! They put Roon into overdrive. Seriously, can't stress this enough.
I don't like Liege of the Tangle. Makes you too vulnerable. One day of judgement = bye bye lands.
Cards I would take out:
Cloudstone curio
Kodama's Reach
Ranger's Path
Skyshroud Claim
Liege of the Tangle
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Bant Charm
Beast Within
Planar Cleansing
Terminus
All is Dust
Recurring Insight
I'm not going to tell you what to add, it's up to you to decide what you want to run. You need tutors, and more creatures with ETB effects. The more creatures you have that do the same or similar things, the more consistent you are.
Some suggestions (So you don't think I'm mean!):
Prime Speaker Zegana
Tooth and Nail
Defense of the Heart
Restoration Angel
Venser, Shaper Savant
Take a look at my list or any of the others floating around the forums for ideas. These are just my thoughts. Feel free to listen to them or put them in the dumpster compartment in your head. It's all up to you after all! That's what EDH is all about.
Hey! Came to glance at your list. You've seem mine, so obviously you know what I think you should be running, but if you're looking for a little more balance without going completely all in on blink like I did, but still abusing the mechanic, here's my advice.
Try to replace spells with creatures that do the same thing. spell draw and spell ramp can easily be done with a creature instead. To a lesser extent, removal as well. I don't run any spell ramp, draw, or removal myself. I just run creatures, ways to tutor for them, and ways to reuse it. I often have better control and removal than the dedicated spell based control decks for this reason.
Put in more tutors! They put Roon into overdrive. Seriously, can't stress this enough.
I don't like Liege of the Tangle. Makes you too vulnerable. One day of judgement = bye bye lands.
Cards I would take out:
Cloudstone curio
Kodama's Reach
Ranger's Path
Skyshroud Claim
Liege of the Tangle
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Bant Charm
Beast Within
Planar Cleansing
Terminus
All is Dust
Recurring Insight
I'm not going to tell you what to add, it's up to you to decide what you want to run. You need tutors, and more creatures with ETB effects. The more creatures you have that do the same or similar things, the more consistent you are.
Some suggestions (So you don't think I'm mean!):
Prime Speaker Zegana
Tooth and Nail
Defense of the Heart
Restoration Angel
Venser, Shaper Savant
Take a look at my list or any of the others floating around the forums for ideas. These are just my thoughts. Feel free to listen to them or put them in the dumpster compartment in your head. It's all up to you after all! That's what EDH is all about.
Thanks for the input! I think you made some great points. The spells that put two lands into play are just so good though! Cloudstone Curio is just so unbelievable so I'll leave that for sure. It's another way to abuse ETB and like I said I don't want to rely only on my general for that. As for Planar Cleansing and Terminus, there just isn't any creatures with ETB effects that good.
Things I would consider doing, considering your parameters:
-All is Dust
+Wash Out
Reasoning: All is Dust will toast your own stuff, and it's a very high CMC sorcery, which means you're probably tapping out for it. At sorcery speed, for 3 less CMC, I think Wash Out wins in this scenario. If you're concerned about non-creature permanent removal, I would also consider Qasali Pridemage.
-Terminus
+Angel of Serenity
Reasoning: You already have two great sweepers in Austere Command and Planar Cleansing - and if you took the Wash Out suggestion, that's a third. I think you run a risk of tucking your own value creatures with this card, which means you can't recur them. Rather, I think you'd be happy with Angel of Serenity, as it can be used offensively against opponents' defenders or it can be used as another source of recursion on creatures in your own graveyard. It also helps that it flies, which is something these bant lists are sorely missing.
Still a bit hesitant to run this deck because people can see, just by looking at your general that it's going to be a blink deck and if they just kill my general on sight they will seriously hurt my gameplan...such are the risks of building around a general I guess.
Alright, decided the deck looks too fun not to try it out. Starting to acquire the cards for it. I'll get some games under my belt and I'm sure some more changes will be coming.
Alright, decided the deck looks too fun not to try it out. Starting to acquire the cards for it. I'll get some games under my belt and I'm sure some more changes will be coming.
Don't let that stop you! Remember...all of these ETB creatures get extra value from Roon, but they are still good on their own. You also have multiple sources of flicker effects. I've won many games without even casting Roon.
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EDH WUGDerevi Voltron AttritionWUG WGRMayael of the Cheated CreaturesWGR
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1 Roon of the Hidden Realm
1 Minion Reflector
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Nephalia Smuggler
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Venser, the Sojourner
Ramp:
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Ondu Giant
1 Sol Ring
1 Ranger's Path
1 Skyshroud Claim
Other ETB stuff to abuse:
1 Clone
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Spike Weaver
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Snapcaster Mage
GY Hate:
1 Angel of Finality
1 Stonecloaker
Recursion:
1 Sun Titan
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Reveillark
1 Body Double
1 Karmic Guide
1 Eternal Witness
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Avenger of Zendikar
Tutors:
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Wargate
Removal:
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Bant Charm
1 Beast Within
1 War Priest of Thune
1 Cloudchaser Kestrel
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Phyrexian Ingester
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Duplicant
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Acidic Slime
1 Harmonic Sliver
Mass Removal:
1 Austere Command
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Terminus
1 All Is Dust
Goodstuff:
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Sylvan Library
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Birthing Pod
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Mulldrifter
Lands:36
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Coastal Tower
1 Command Tower
6 Forest
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 High Market
1 Hinterland Harbor
6 Island
1 Maze of Ith
4 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Savannah
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Yavimaya Hollow
Anything I missed? Bad card choices? Improvements? Lemme know what you guys think! Counter spells and infinite combos were left out on purpose.
On obvious straight-up upgrade would be replacing Quirion Trailblazer with Ondu Giant. Same card basically, but bigger stats. I recommend looking over the other threads running around on the first few pages. There's some good ideas bouncing around in both of the ones I've been reading.
One thing I do want to point out - you can definitely add really powerful cards like Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail without creating infinite combos. Leave out Palinchron and Time Walk effects and you're probably good. Anyway, look forward to seeing where you go with your build!
Yeah, the only reason I have Vigor and Liege of the Tangle in there is for a few big nasty wincons. Maybe there are some big scary dudes that have ETB effects I can use as wincons instead? I really like the ETB/blink plan and thought I was pretty heavy on abusing those effects.
Of course, getting infinite mana and then proceeding to blow up all noncreature permanents with Sylvan Primordial and exiling things with Luminate is also a nice way to win, but barring that, eking out incremental advantages through blinking value ETB creatures is the plan.
Try to replace spells with creatures that do the same thing. spell draw and spell ramp can easily be done with a creature instead. To a lesser extent, removal as well. I don't run any spell ramp, draw, or removal myself. I just run creatures, ways to tutor for them, and ways to reuse it. I often have better control and removal than the dedicated spell based control decks for this reason.
Put in more tutors! They put Roon into overdrive. Seriously, can't stress this enough.
I don't like Liege of the Tangle. Makes you too vulnerable. One day of judgement = bye bye lands.
Cards I would take out:
Cloudstone curio
Kodama's Reach
Ranger's Path
Skyshroud Claim
Liege of the Tangle
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Bant Charm
Beast Within
Planar Cleansing
Terminus
All is Dust
Recurring Insight
I'm not going to tell you what to add, it's up to you to decide what you want to run. You need tutors, and more creatures with ETB effects. The more creatures you have that do the same or similar things, the more consistent you are.
Some suggestions (So you don't think I'm mean!):
Prime Speaker Zegana
Tooth and Nail
Defense of the Heart
Restoration Angel
Venser, Shaper Savant
Take a look at my list or any of the others floating around the forums for ideas. These are just my thoughts. Feel free to listen to them or put them in the dumpster compartment in your head. It's all up to you after all! That's what EDH is all about.
Thanks for the input! I think you made some great points. The spells that put two lands into play are just so good though! Cloudstone Curio is just so unbelievable so I'll leave that for sure. It's another way to abuse ETB and like I said I don't want to rely only on my general for that. As for Planar Cleansing and Terminus, there just isn't any creatures with ETB effects that good.
-All is Dust
+Wash Out
Reasoning: All is Dust will toast your own stuff, and it's a very high CMC sorcery, which means you're probably tapping out for it. At sorcery speed, for 3 less CMC, I think Wash Out wins in this scenario. If you're concerned about non-creature permanent removal, I would also consider Qasali Pridemage.
-Chancellor of the Spires
+Snapcaster Mage
Reasoning: You have some powerful spells, so I can understand that you'd want some spell recursion. Although it won't hit opponents' spells, I think Snapcaster Mage is much more aggressively costed, can be done at flash speed, and is recurrable with your Sun Titan, Reveillark, and Karmic Guide.
-Terminus
+Angel of Serenity
Reasoning: You already have two great sweepers in Austere Command and Planar Cleansing - and if you took the Wash Out suggestion, that's a third. I think you run a risk of tucking your own value creatures with this card, which means you can't recur them. Rather, I think you'd be happy with Angel of Serenity, as it can be used offensively against opponents' defenders or it can be used as another source of recursion on creatures in your own graveyard. It also helps that it flies, which is something these bant lists are sorely missing.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Minion Reflector
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Bant Panorama
1 Chancellor of the Spires
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Recurring Insight
Don't let that stop you! Remember...all of these ETB creatures get extra value from Roon, but they are still good on their own. You also have multiple sources of flicker effects. I've won many games without even casting Roon.
WUGDerevi Voltron AttritionWUG
WGRMayael of the Cheated CreaturesWGR