[B]Intro:[/B]
Hello everyone, this will be the third deck I have published, I have allot of things running around and in testing, The biggest reason I am making this deck is my other two decks are pretty much 1v1 french list exclusive. However she functions really well in both classic multi-player and duel commander. Its a deck that I could feel comfortable buying in real life as it would be able to hop between the different formats with ease, and remain competitive. The deck can be made on a decent budget, given you would have to cut grim tutor, but the rest of the deck I made sure was affordable as you will notice the absence of the a few notable and largely unnecessary money cards like Jace/duals. Force of will would be the other big money card, but I feel that force of Will is a card that if you don't already own you need to invest in because it is just to good and to splashable.
[B]Why her?[/B]
Oona has always been known as a strong combo general, however she has never seemed to quite cut it for the top tier. As a Johnny player I always feel I must do something that is both creative and has an underdog feel. While the deck concept may not be an original, I feel that I have managed to refine and fine tune her for today's meta in such a way that she truly can be competitive.
__________________
[B]The Basics:[/B]
Combos:
Power artifact+Basalt/Grim Monolith
Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith
Pili-Pala+Grand Architect
Leyline of the Void+Helm of Obedience
The goal is to quickly establish one of your infinite combos via the many tutors and transmutes. Typically if you only have one tutor in hand its usually best to wait till you either have a second one, or know which piece you are going to want.
The exception to holding your searches is the transmutes should be used right away unless you desperately need that card, or need to leave mana open. For 2 you usually search power artifact as it works with both grim/basalt monolith, unless you have grand architect, or already have power artifact in that case you search either pili-pala or grim monolith. For 3 you always search for basalt monolith unless you already have it, or Pili-Pala in hand, as basalt works with both rings of brighthearth and power artifact. For the 4 cost you allways want to search leyline of the void first, as A. it can immediately begin to disrupt your opponent, B. you have a couple more ways to search for helm then you do leyline. And of course you can use transmute to tutor out something to get you out of a bind such as a true tutor, engineered plague, damnation, or toxic deluge.
With pila/architect allways try to play pila first as the untap ability is effected by summoning sickness, an artifact creature is slightly harder to kill, as well as more easily recurred, and make sure you have 3 blue mana so you can go infinite immediately when you do drop architect.
Of course you always have Oonas ability to fall back on, as in a long game versus control she can easily win a game with her 5/5 flying body supported by mass tokens.
I have done the math for the deck, using several algorithm generators, the deck has over a 90% chance to have your combo ready to go by turn 6, which is typically when you have the mana to do it, so it worked out really well. And even on the sad days where you don't get the combo, or get out countered, It is a very heavy control oriented deck so it is fairly resilient. This of course does not take into account any disruption from your opponent, just gives you an idea of the general deck consistency.
[B]Onto card selection and why I have chosen the slots I have[/B].
The first thing people notice is I am missing many of the staple draw engines like Ryhstic study. This is mainly because it came down to picking either draw cards or more tutors, and with this style of a combo deck the tutors serve much better then trying to generate card advantage. I opted for a very tutor heavy build as a deck that needs to assemble two piece combos to win needs to function quickly. With today's meta trying to survive a long game when things like prosh are a threat even if countered or removed, or derevi who will easily and quickly put out more threats then you have control for, you just have to be able to combo quickly, or be able to find answers when you need them. It is also nice versus slower paced control decks as you can just keep looking for more combos despite there answers, and if they are busy stopping you they wont have time to generate card advantage.
I picked combos that where no more then two cards, where low mana cost, and could be transmuted. The transmutation suite works very nicely because they can search out pieces from multiple combos causing transmute in this deck to be just as good as grimm tutor. Going the artifact route was also desirable as it allowed for fabricate/tezz as well as some recursion. The deck started out with a few more, but I cut them as these are the core that are not only the most stable, but the easiest to tutor for. The chances of you ever going through more then 3 different combos is just not going to happen, besides it is easier to recur a piece then it will be to search for two more. Also some of the others were super pricey.
Engineered plague, night of souls betrayal, and infest where some meta picks as prosh and animar scare me and those cards have served me really well in beating those two. They are also handy against any aggro swarmy decks like krenko mob boss.
I opted out of time walks as they are relatively high mana which causes them to usually end up as dead cards to me, and are usually too risky to play because should they get countered I'm all tapped out. And mainly the deck was fairly cramped for room.
I of course also opted out of anything that would cost more then 30$ excluding force of will, and grim tutor which can be substituted.
__________[/S]________
[B]Slots:[/B]
Other cards I have considered and either took out or haven't gotten around to testing/couldn't find things to take out for them:
[B]Bad Matchups[/B]:
There are no true inherit bad match ups, it is a fairly reslient control deck that can combo quickly. Of course the usual suspects derevi, animar, prosh, zur, and mld variants can give you a tough time, however they are beatable and I feel confident she can at least 50-50 just about anything.
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[B]Epilogue/Looking to improve:[/B]
I think it has potential to be quite competitive, I know there is likely room for improvement. I’m open to suggestions. I really think Oona can make a rise to be top tier.
__________________
[B]Change Log:[/B]
I acknowledged that the concept was not new, and that she is a strong combo, but I don't believe she has already been made top tier...Find me a tournament where she placed at all, check out the brief discussion about her on the edh megathread, factor in how little actual play she gets, consider the current largely new meta with the last commander set, all this adds up to a slightly above average general with a neat niche. While the core of the deck has not changed, I have simply attempted to refine it.This is my personal take on her, trying to break her out of that niche into something truly great.
The best example I have of this is evergreens Iname deck, Iname was a well known strong combo, the deck was pretty simple and straightforward, but never top tier, but then evergreen dedicated his heart and soul into that, and really changed it.
Kuma's list is basically top tier (that other forum), but jivanmukta has a great list on here too--not sure which is better. Take a peek and if you can improve them and win a 1v1 tourni, there you go. Just know that you aren't pulling off anything like Evergreen--you'd have to pick something that was a totally unknown entity with a powerful ability and transform it.
I'd recommend Jeleva--people have a real hard time understanding it and it totally falls short due to lack of understood potential--but all the building blocks are there. So far I haven't even seen a good Tier anything list for 1v1--if you built one and worked on it and won something with a published result then thats something.
After browsing around a bit more looking for those names, I see that only about 10% of the deck is original. I thought It had been a bit more novel, but its only a small improvement. Still feel she needed a little attention to be tuned for the current 1v1 meta, but your right it was foolhardy to compare it to evergreens efforts. (On a side note I did build her from scratch, as the only other lists I found were pretty awful before seeking the names you gave me, so I had felt like I accomplished more then I had.)
I'm glad more interest has been expressed in Oona as far as Duel Commander is concerned; I have been playing her for the last couple months and have found her to be really fun and relatively strong. :]
I like your build but I think you might just have TOO many combos... it is nice to have the ability to play draw-go until you happen across both pieces of a specific combo, however I much prefer a more narrow approach; I feel like many of the more difficult-to-assemble combos could be replaced by more wraths/removal/card draw/tutors.
Oona by herself is a wonderful "backup" win condition and I think she's really all you need beyond a single laser-guided two-card combo strategy (I think Power Artifact/Monoliths is best... and it occupies a special place in my heart, lol). In any case, good luck! The Queen of the Fae deserves more representation. :]
There are only 4, several of which mix pieces, as well as when you factor in the transmute suite that searches for all different pieces.
Duel commander simply does not give the time to play passivly, you will win against some decks, but prosh, animar, and dervi will eat you alive if you are not super fast.
There is nothing wrong with a variant having more draw power and a broader range of control cards as apposed to more combos/tutors, as Oona strongly supports a game that goes on longer all by her self. However I do feel being more combo centered is stronger for the current meta, but this is largely a matter of opinion as I have not given a slower paced Oona a test. Regardless both versions are effective and despite that one may be a little better then the other is not really the point, they are both effective and it comes down to a matter of preference of a playstyle.
Hello everyone, this will be the third deck I have published, I have allot of things running around and in testing, The biggest reason I am making this deck is my other two decks are pretty much 1v1 french list exclusive. However she functions really well in both classic multi-player and duel commander. Its a deck that I could feel comfortable buying in real life as it would be able to hop between the different formats with ease, and remain competitive. The deck can be made on a decent budget, given you would have to cut grim tutor, but the rest of the deck I made sure was affordable as you will notice the absence of the a few notable and largely unnecessary money cards like Jace/duals. Force of will would be the other big money card, but I feel that force of Will is a card that if you don't already own you need to invest in because it is just to good and to splashable.
__________________
Without Further ado I present my deck list
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
Acceleration:
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Grim Monolith
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Dimir Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Star Compass ( Sol ring )
1 Sky Diamond
1 Charcoal Diamond
Draw:
1 Frantic Search
1 Brainstorm
Counters
1 Arcane Denial
1 Remand
1 Memory Lapse
1 Counterspell
1 Delay
1 Muddle in the Mixture
1 Perplex
1 Foil
1 Daze
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Misdirection
Discard:
1 Thoughtseize
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Unmask
1 Treachery
1 Night of Souls Betrayal
1 Capsize
1 Dismember
1 Damnation
1 Sickening Shoal
1 Infest
1 Clutch of the Undercity
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Go for the Throat
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Engineered Plague
Land:
14 Island
13 Swamp
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 River of Tears
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Grim Tutor ( Vampric Tutor , Demonic Colusion )
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Fabricate
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Clutch of the Undercity
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Shred Memory
1 Perplex
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Muddle in the Mixture
1 Dimir Machinations
Win Conditions:
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Grim Monolith
1 Power Artifact
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Grand Architect
1 Pili-Pala
Recycle:
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Buried Ruin
1 Beacon of Unrest
__________________
[B]Why her?[/B]
Oona has always been known as a strong combo general, however she has never seemed to quite cut it for the top tier. As a Johnny player I always feel I must do something that is both creative and has an underdog feel. While the deck concept may not be an original, I feel that I have managed to refine and fine tune her for today's meta in such a way that she truly can be competitive.
__________________
[B]The Basics:[/B]
Combos:
Power artifact+Basalt/Grim Monolith
Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith
Pili-Pala+Grand Architect
Leyline of the Void+Helm of Obedience
The goal is to quickly establish one of your infinite combos via the many tutors and transmutes. Typically if you only have one tutor in hand its usually best to wait till you either have a second one, or know which piece you are going to want.
The exception to holding your searches is the transmutes should be used right away unless you desperately need that card, or need to leave mana open. For 2 you usually search power artifact as it works with both grim/basalt monolith, unless you have grand architect, or already have power artifact in that case you search either pili-pala or grim monolith. For 3 you always search for basalt monolith unless you already have it, or Pili-Pala in hand, as basalt works with both rings of brighthearth and power artifact. For the 4 cost you allways want to search leyline of the void first, as A. it can immediately begin to disrupt your opponent, B. you have a couple more ways to search for helm then you do leyline. And of course you can use transmute to tutor out something to get you out of a bind such as a true tutor, engineered plague, damnation, or toxic deluge.
With pila/architect allways try to play pila first as the untap ability is effected by summoning sickness, an artifact creature is slightly harder to kill, as well as more easily recurred, and make sure you have 3 blue mana so you can go infinite immediately when you do drop architect.
Of course you always have Oonas ability to fall back on, as in a long game versus control she can easily win a game with her 5/5 flying body supported by mass tokens.
I have done the math for the deck, using several algorithm generators, the deck has over a 90% chance to have your combo ready to go by turn 6, which is typically when you have the mana to do it, so it worked out really well. And even on the sad days where you don't get the combo, or get out countered, It is a very heavy control oriented deck so it is fairly resilient. This of course does not take into account any disruption from your opponent, just gives you an idea of the general deck consistency.
The main generators I used to come up with these results can be found here: http://irafay.com/magic.php
Here: http://deckstats.net/deck-3333837-849796264abedf9005ba823764a13ce7.html
And Here:http://www.irafay.com/cards.php
(As well as had some of my math major friends crunch the numbers)
__________________
[B]Onto card selection and why I have chosen the slots I have[/B].
The first thing people notice is I am missing many of the staple draw engines like Ryhstic study. This is mainly because it came down to picking either draw cards or more tutors, and with this style of a combo deck the tutors serve much better then trying to generate card advantage. I opted for a very tutor heavy build as a deck that needs to assemble two piece combos to win needs to function quickly. With today's meta trying to survive a long game when things like prosh are a threat even if countered or removed, or derevi who will easily and quickly put out more threats then you have control for, you just have to be able to combo quickly, or be able to find answers when you need them. It is also nice versus slower paced control decks as you can just keep looking for more combos despite there answers, and if they are busy stopping you they wont have time to generate card advantage.
I picked combos that where no more then two cards, where low mana cost, and could be transmuted. The transmutation suite works very nicely because they can search out pieces from multiple combos causing transmute in this deck to be just as good as grimm tutor. Going the artifact route was also desirable as it allowed for fabricate/tezz as well as some recursion. The deck started out with a few more, but I cut them as these are the core that are not only the most stable, but the easiest to tutor for. The chances of you ever going through more then 3 different combos is just not going to happen, besides it is easier to recur a piece then it will be to search for two more. Also some of the others were super pricey.
Engineered plague, night of souls betrayal, and infest where some meta picks as prosh and animar scare me and those cards have served me really well in beating those two. They are also handy against any aggro swarmy decks like krenko mob boss.
I opted out of time walks as they are relatively high mana which causes them to usually end up as dead cards to me, and are usually too risky to play because should they get countered I'm all tapped out. And mainly the deck was fairly cramped for room.
I of course also opted out of anything that would cost more then 30$ excluding force of will, and grim tutor which can be substituted.
__________[/S]________
[B]Slots:[/B]
Other cards I have considered and either took out or haven't gotten around to testing/couldn't find things to take out for them:
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Wash Out
1 Persecute
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Echoing Decay
1 Hideous Laughter
1 Massacre
1 Shrivel
__________________
[B]Bad Matchups[/B]:
There are no true inherit bad match ups, it is a fairly reslient control deck that can combo quickly. Of course the usual suspects derevi, animar, prosh, zur, and mld variants can give you a tough time, however they are beatable and I feel confident she can at least 50-50 just about anything.
__________________
[B]Epilogue/Looking to improve:[/B]
I think it has potential to be quite competitive, I know there is likely room for improvement. I’m open to suggestions. I really think Oona can make a rise to be top tier.
__________________
[B]Change Log:[/B]
Since posting thread:
+1 black sun zenith
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
The best example I have of this is evergreens Iname deck, Iname was a well known strong combo, the deck was pretty simple and straightforward, but never top tier, but then evergreen dedicated his heart and soul into that, and really changed it.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
I'd recommend Jeleva--people have a real hard time understanding it and it totally falls short due to lack of understood potential--but all the building blocks are there. So far I haven't even seen a good Tier anything list for 1v1--if you built one and worked on it and won something with a published result then thats something.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
I like your build but I think you might just have TOO many combos... it is nice to have the ability to play draw-go until you happen across both pieces of a specific combo, however I much prefer a more narrow approach; I feel like many of the more difficult-to-assemble combos could be replaced by more wraths/removal/card draw/tutors.
Oona by herself is a wonderful "backup" win condition and I think she's really all you need beyond a single laser-guided two-card combo strategy (I think Power Artifact/Monoliths is best... and it occupies a special place in my heart, lol). In any case, good luck! The Queen of the Fae deserves more representation. :]
Asmira, Holy Avenger (French EDH)
I upload Duel Commander match replays to my YouTube channel
Duel commander simply does not give the time to play passivly, you will win against some decks, but prosh, animar, and dervi will eat you alive if you are not super fast.There is nothing wrong with a variant having more draw power and a broader range of control cards as apposed to more combos/tutors, as Oona strongly supports a game that goes on longer all by her self. However I do feel being more combo centered is stronger for the current meta, but this is largely a matter of opinion as I have not given a slower paced Oona a test. Regardless both versions are effective and despite that one may be a little better then the other is not really the point, they are both effective and it comes down to a matter of preference of a playstyle.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira