I've wanted a spell-slinger type deck for a while. I get enough creature love in Krenko. I've also always loved the Grixis shard.
Thankfully, with Commander 2013, we got 2 in 1!
The deck is very passive, which I'm not used to. It hopes to just sweep the board whenever it is threatening enough and take control of whatever is of most value to us.
Combo(s):
Any tuck effect + Tunnel Vision. Kills target player; usually the last one or the one about to kill us all
Reiterate + Turnabout for infinite mana and spell copy. Add Lightning Bolt or Comet Storm for infinite damage. All can be tutored for with Firemind's Foresight: Search for Mystical Tutor (for Turnabout), Comet Storm, and Reiterate.
Once I get a Reset, I can also tutor for Lightning Bolt, Reset, and Reiterate.
I don't think you have enough tutors to justify so few win conditions in the deck.
1. it looks like your only hope is to swing at your table with a 1/3 a zillion times
2. have a lot of mana and get lucky enough to not exile comet storm the table
3. not wrath the table and rite of replicate a good creature kicked to win the table.
I also think you don't need the artifact lands and would do better with bounce or permanent destruction rather than counters--as reactive stuff is useless with your commander.
To be fair, Jeleva + Pike can get the job done pretty fast
I guess I was thinking more about what my opponent's might have to cast rather than my own. I also didn't consider the possibility of exiling a wincon or combo piece forever I also really like counters... maybe this was a poor choice of general on my part.
The artifact lands were here because of Trinket Mage, but he was cut due to a lack of good targets.
So I should probably add some stuff like Capsize and the like it seems.
yeah, buyback, rebound, cascade, retrace, kicker, are all good things. You can still run spell based control, but bounce/destroy/exile permanents is the kind you sort of have to settle for because when you exile them with the commander they're useless and if you run enough to actually draw and use some reliably you probably aren't doing anything else.
I Kaho, Minamo Historian since she tutors them out and I can protect her for when I'll want to use counters in jeleva.
Rebound doesn't work off Jeleva as you don't cast it from your hand. Recurring Insight is fine as it's still a good amount of cards off Jeleva and better out of your hand, but I wouldn't run Cast Through Time. Also wouldn't bother with X costs as it's just too painful when you exile them.
Just a note: I'm not running extra turn effects in here as a courtesy to my group. It takes long enough to get around the table without extra turns, and I know exactly what it's like sitting on the other side of them. If I don't play them, no one else does either; win:win.
yeah, buyback, rebound, cascade, retrace, kicker, are all good things. You can still run spell based control, but bounce/destroy/exile permanents is the kind you sort of have to settle for because when you exile them with the commander they're useless and if you run enough to actually draw and use some reliably you probably aren't doing anything else.
I Kaho, Minamo Historian since she tutors them out and I can protect her for when I'll want to use counters in jeleva.
Kaho seems awesome, actually. I had never bothered to read her text before
I'll keep some counters (I won't be the only one at the table with spells), but I should definitely ton them down a bit. I'm also glad I love nearly all of those mechanics (too bad not much for good cascade in these colours). Forbid is too good to cut IMO, and Izzet Charm isn't too useless when exiled. Keeping Hinder and Crumple for sure (they will also come in handy when I add Tunnel Vision). The rest will go most likely.
Rebound doesn't work off Jeleva as you don't cast it from your hand. Recurring Insight is fine as it's still a good amount of cards off Jeleva and better out of your hand, but I wouldn't run Cast Through Time. Also wouldn't bother with X costs as it's just too painful when you exile them.
To be fair, I won't cast every spell off of Jeleva, so I still think I'm safe to run Cast Through Time. Nearly half the deck is spells, after all.
I feel it's a bit like how Zealous Conscripts doesn't do much with Krenko, but it's good enough to go in my deck anyway.
I'm going to tone down the X's as well. I'll keep Epic Experiment because it's awesome and Comet because it's part of a wincondition, but the rest may see the ax. They're really just filling until I can afford better sweepers.
Thanks for the replies, guys. Definitely stepped this deck up a bit. I'll get some new cards on Friday and update the list.
I have 3 points that stick out to me:
1. You only have 1 haste enabler in Lightning Greaves and this is also your only form of protection for Jelava (3 counters don't really count) - I don't see you attacking that much with Jeleva before she is removed, but it might be different in your meta. You could at least add Swiftfoot Boots ...
2. You play a lot of high cmc cards, and not alk of them are spells - I think a card like Cast through Time doesn't really belong here, also because you use alternative ways to cast spells (Jeleva, Mrmory Pluneer, Spellweavers Volute).
3. You lack cheap spit removal - what will you do when the Rafiq player swings at you for 12 on turn 4? Better ad things like Pongify IMHO.
I hope you have a great time plating this deck, keep us updated!
More haste is definitely on my to-buy list. Anger and Swiftfoot Boots are definitely going in, maybe some others.
Cast I have only drawn once so far, but I didn't cast it because I ended up going infinite. It's definitely on the chopping block, but I want to play it some more to see if it works out. It might also get better once I cut more of the counters and things and add more stuff that works with Jeleva.
I'll also be sure to add some more instant-speed kill, now that you mention it. Terminate is definitely coming in, maybe Go for the Throat.
Thanks for the post, dude. I'll update my list now, and it might change when I actually get these cards.
I really want a Chandra, Pyromaster for this, but I ain't paying those prices lol. More all-spell wincons would be good, too!
More haste is definitely on my to-buy list. Anger and Swiftfoot Boots are definitely going in, maybe some others.
Cast I have only drawn once so far, but I didn't cast it because I ended up going infinite. It's definitely on the chopping block, but I want to play it some more to see if it works out. It might also get better once I cut more of the counters and things and add more stuff that works with Jeleva.
I'll also be sure to add some more instant-speed kill, now that you mention it. Terminate is definitely coming in, maybe Go for the Throat.
Thanks for the post, dude. I'll update my list now, and it might change when I actually get these cards.
I really want a Chandra, Pyromaster for this, but I ain't paying those prices lol. More all-spell wincons would be good, too!
The other chandra is actually pretty sweet for copying spells in general and its not 40 bucks.
Ah yeah, I forgot about less-good Chandra. She's just nowhere near as sweet (but I guess her price reflects that :p). I'll probably look to add a copy of her until new Chandra rotates.
Have you looked at Bob's T&L thread before? You will find many good ideas for your deck there. Looking at your list specifically, there are 2 directions most UR spellslinger decks tend to go to win. One is with wheels and damaging the opponents directly through their draw, and through giant storm counts. The other is using haste enablers, select equipment, and instant speed creature buffs to alpha strike an opponent (or sometimes 2 or 3) on the same turn for massive ammounts of damage. I would highly recommend on focusing on one of these 2 strategies and building specifically towards that goal.
Adding black into this U/R shell gives you more storm spells, tutors, recursion, rituals, and alpha strike cards. (Show me the demonic tutor! There are tons of other great tutors for you as well in U/B)
Some things I notice in your list that is common in both types of T&L spellsinger but not in your deck and worth consideration would be wheel of fortune cards, cards that make your spells to cost less mana (AKA Arcane melee and friends), and a little bit of creature hate. With more filter and draw, it should make your instant win combo(s) easier to come across too.
You don't need many creatures to alpha strike with. I have won games with hasted 40+ power unblockable goblin electromancer attacking both my opponents on the same turn. Less creatures let you add powerful hate that will let you live longer - cards like Torpor Orb, Blasphemous Act, and with B, Damnation. You don't need a ton of control, just enough to see you to your storm or loop combos.
(And i do think a more prison oriented spellslinger is easily possible in UBR, but you start to lose the 'spellslinger' side of things. Part of what makes spellslinger so effective is the density of draw/ mana/ utility instants+ sorceries that all play off each other... then again and again... with forks or Past in Flame or Yawgmoths Will for some truly out of this world plays.)
TLDR of all this: IMHO you should think big turns, and setup for big turns. Skim bobs thread. Meditate on whether you want big storm spells or big stormed alphas strike, and commit 100% to whichever choice you want - letting the instant wins sort of just happen on the way sometimes.
edit: forgot to mention Turnabout. Casting Turnabout many times on the same turn is stupid fun.
I definitely plan on going for a more storm-orientated route once I have some more money to drop. Sort of went overboard on Krenko and used up my budget for now
That's the main reason for the exclusion of a lot of the tutors for now. I should probably put the budget tags on the top. I've mostly got this built as something to play besides Krenko, but I really want to make it as good as he is right now eventually.
Definitely a helpful post, thanks a lot. And I got my Turnabout Reiterate infinite last night, used to to cast the most epic of experiments
I read through your list again. If you are looking for cuts as you go more spellslinger, to me it looks like a few of the creatures are kind of clunky - any critter/clone that doesnt further your game plan is probably not needed. Expensive answers like cruel ultimatum, stolen identity, and blatant thievery might be better off as merchant scroll, frantic search, and windfall. I have found general things like your board wipes to come in way more handy in extending your clock. Shortening how long you need to do your thing really makes these spellslinger decks way more effective. Your wipes look pretty good, and if you lose some of the expensive targeted stuff for more action cards, your deck might start playing a bit more dynamically. Their are a ton of usefull cheap blue tutors, and if you start adding wheels, it makes flashback pretty attractive.
(And i do agree with grinning demon, I usually run a couple of wipes, pongify, chaos warp, cyclonic rift, echoing truth for tokens, torpor orb and a few counters as my removal of choice in UR spellslinger. That mix seems pretty good for my meta, yours is likely different)
Your deck looks fun, and I am excited to see how different UBR spellslingers start turning out now that we got 2 good generals for it!
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Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
Have you tried Insidious Dreams? Combos insanely well with Epic Experiment when you stack it on top with Spin into Myth, Tunnel Vison and 4 copy spells, kill the entire table with a single combo :cool:. Or you can stack Cruel Ultimumn with a bunch of copy spells if someone has a sack outlet..:D Or you have a way to give Jeleva haste, you can play Insidious dreams EOT and stack Hatred and extra combat phase spells to exile with Jeleva..the list goes on and on..
Extra combats does seem good, this is true. Will definitely add Seize the Day and maybe another couple.
Extra turns I don't want to add, though. A) It would just be too easy to win, B) I know what it's like sitting at a table with lots of extra turns. It already takes a long time to get around the table without these sorts of effects, and I don't want to be making everyone else's game suck.
EDIT: Updated the OP. Seize the Day did some work last night, love that card. Sadly, the LGS didn't have a Merchant Scroll in stock yesterday :\
I read through your list again. If you are looking for cuts as you go more spellslinger, to me it looks like a few of the creatures are kind of clunky - any critter/clone that doesnt further your game plan is probably not needed. Expensive answers like cruel ultimatum, stolen identity, and blatant thievery might be better off as merchant scroll, frantic search, and windfall. I have found general things like your board wipes to come in way more handy in extending your clock. Shortening how long you need to do your thing really makes these spellslinger decks way more effective. Your wipes look pretty good, and if you lose some of the expensive targeted stuff for more action cards, your deck might start playing a bit more dynamically. Their are a ton of usefull cheap blue tutors, and if you start adding wheels, it makes flashback pretty attractive.
(And i do agree with grinning demon, I usually run a couple of wipes, pongify, chaos warp, cyclonic rift, echoing truth for tokens, torpor orb and a few counters as my removal of choice in UR spellslinger. That mix seems pretty good for my meta, yours is likely different)
Your deck looks fun, and I am excited to see how different UBR spellslingers start turning out now that we got 2 good generals for it!
Jeleva benefits from multiple combats, Seize the Day and it's like seem perfect.
Seize the day doesn't work with Jeleva's trigger ability. The oracle text on Seize the day changed to "After this main phase, there is an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase." So it doesn't do anything if Size the Day was cast during the combat phase.
Seize the day doesn't work with Jeleva's trigger ability. The oracle text on Seize the day changed to "After this main phase, there is an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase." So it doesn't do anything if Size the Day was cast during the combat phase.
I've heard this a few times, and I don't get what exactly is wrong. Besides maybe world at war this is the best of the extra combat cards. the only extra combats I avoid are the ones that aren't instant/sorcery.
I had a game with this card where Jeleva exiled seize and I cast it anyway. did nothing, i get it. Then I castrecoup during my second main, flashed it back for two, then flashed it for three rtfc. I also could have snapcastered it back.
I also could have tutored for it or drawn it naturally, not every card in your deck needs to be able to work flawlessly with Jeleva--lands don't and you still manage to justify playing those.
1. It is an instant/sorcery--Jeleva can cast it to get to the graveyard for free at the opportunity cost of not casting something else (which happens sometimes, or happens if Jeleva casts multiple things previous this card could be all that is left.
2. it is recurrable, it doesn't need to be used with just Jeleva, just one creature such as sphinx ambassador
3. it has its own flashback cost, works with cards that deal with flashback runic repetition or quiet speculation. Adds a lot of redundancy to commander decks that might care for it.
a) savage beating=more expensive, double strike doesn't matter, double red makes it harder to cast if drawn naturally, no main phase after first combat, limited window to cast ties up mana for killing a potential blocker/responding to trick cast by opponents.
b)world at war= double red is harder to cast, more expensive, rebound is GREAT--you may or may not have Jeleva in play next turn--so to ensure that the rebound is worth it better counter a board wipe (Jeleva is a great reason to board wipe/spot remove because she forcasts nearly everything that is coming an opponents way). same errata makes it needed to be cast during first main.
c)fury of the horde=double red less relevant due to higher later game oriented casting cost, great alt cost (good if drawing lots of cards, heavy red card concentration in deck [ie worse deck :o]), can be used to simply untap attackers if cast of Jeleva.
DEFGHSHSDF) any double combat tricks that arent instant/sorcery=not castable or savable in the event that they are exiled--too much non-synergy with me at this point, better of looking at multiple turn cards in blue.
Just gonna put it out there that jeleva is inherently good with ninjas to reset her and get the ninjas through,and it's cool.
this is magic:thumbsup: not yugioh and I wouldn't want to pollute my deck with that crap. Deep hours might be good, but I wouldn't go more than one ninja--trick gets old quick.
Thankfully, with Commander 2013, we got 2 in 1!
The deck is very passive, which I'm not used to. It hopes to just sweep the board whenever it is threatening enough and take control of whatever is of most value to us.
1 Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
Creatures: 6
1 Anger
1 Archaeomancer
1 Goblin Electromancer
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Vedalken Æthermage
Planeswalkers: 1
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
Sorcery: 22
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Curse of the Swine
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Epic Experiment
1 Insurrection
1 Jokulhaups
1 Mana Geyser
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Night's Whisper
1 Plague Wind
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Recurring Insight
1 Rite of Replication
1 Seize the Day
1 Stolen Identity
1 Tunnel Vision
1 Vandalblast
1 Brainstorm
1 Comet Storm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dark Ritual
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Hinder
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Memory Plunder
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Reiterate
1 Reverberate
1 Spell Crumple
1 Spin into Myth
1 Terminate
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Turnabout
1 Wild Ricochet
Artifacts: 10
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Izzet Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Spellweaver Volute
Land: 38
9 Island
5 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Graven Cairns
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Shivan Reef
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tolaria West
1 Underground River
Combo(s):
Any tuck effect + Tunnel Vision. Kills target player; usually the last one or the one about to kill us all
Reiterate + Turnabout for infinite mana and spell copy. Add Lightning Bolt or Comet Storm for infinite damage. All can be tutored for with Firemind's Foresight: Search for Mystical Tutor (for Turnabout), Comet Storm, and Reiterate.
Once I get a Reset, I can also tutor for Lightning Bolt, Reset, and Reiterate.
1. it looks like your only hope is to swing at your table with a 1/3 a zillion times
2. have a lot of mana and get lucky enough to not exile comet storm the table
3. not wrath the table and rite of replicate a good creature kicked to win the table.
I also think you don't need the artifact lands and would do better with bounce or permanent destruction rather than counters--as reactive stuff is useless with your commander.
I guess I was thinking more about what my opponent's might have to cast rather than my own. I also didn't consider the possibility of exiling a wincon or combo piece forever I also really like counters... maybe this was a poor choice of general on my part.
The artifact lands were here because of Trinket Mage, but he was cut due to a lack of good targets.
So I should probably add some stuff like Capsize and the like it seems.
I Kaho, Minamo Historian since she tutors them out and I can protect her for when I'll want to use counters in jeleva.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Kaho seems awesome, actually. I had never bothered to read her text before
I'll keep some counters (I won't be the only one at the table with spells), but I should definitely ton them down a bit. I'm also glad I love nearly all of those mechanics (too bad not much for good cascade in these colours). Forbid is too good to cut IMO, and Izzet Charm isn't too useless when exiled. Keeping Hinder and Crumple for sure (they will also come in handy when I add Tunnel Vision). The rest will go most likely.
Does Deny Reality or Bituminous Blast make the cut? I love free spells
To be fair, I won't cast every spell off of Jeleva, so I still think I'm safe to run Cast Through Time. Nearly half the deck is spells, after all.
I feel it's a bit like how Zealous Conscripts doesn't do much with Krenko, but it's good enough to go in my deck anyway.
I'm going to tone down the X's as well. I'll keep Epic Experiment because it's awesome and Comet because it's part of a wincondition, but the rest may see the ax. They're really just filling until I can afford better sweepers.
Thanks for the replies, guys. Definitely stepped this deck up a bit. I'll get some new cards on Friday and update the list.
I got a win and a close game in with her tonight though. Pretty happy.
1. You only have 1 haste enabler in Lightning Greaves and this is also your only form of protection for Jelava (3 counters don't really count) - I don't see you attacking that much with Jeleva before she is removed, but it might be different in your meta. You could at least add Swiftfoot Boots ...
2. You play a lot of high cmc cards, and not alk of them are spells - I think a card like Cast through Time doesn't really belong here, also because you use alternative ways to cast spells (Jeleva, Mrmory Pluneer, Spellweavers Volute).
3. You lack cheap spit removal - what will you do when the Rafiq player swings at you for 12 on turn 4? Better ad things like Pongify IMHO.
I hope you have a great time plating this deck, keep us updated!
BRGWTana and TymnaBRGW
RTeneb, the EternalR
UBRNekusar, Mind RazerUBR
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGWGhave, Guru of SporesBGW
Aurelia, the Warleader
BDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefB
WBROros, the AvengerWBR
Cast I have only drawn once so far, but I didn't cast it because I ended up going infinite. It's definitely on the chopping block, but I want to play it some more to see if it works out. It might also get better once I cut more of the counters and things and add more stuff that works with Jeleva.
I'll also be sure to add some more instant-speed kill, now that you mention it. Terminate is definitely coming in, maybe Go for the Throat.
Thanks for the post, dude. I'll update my list now, and it might change when I actually get these cards.
I really want a Chandra, Pyromaster for this, but I ain't paying those prices lol. More all-spell wincons would be good, too!
The other chandra is actually pretty sweet for copying spells in general and its not 40 bucks.
Adding black into this U/R shell gives you more storm spells, tutors, recursion, rituals, and alpha strike cards. (Show me the demonic tutor! There are tons of other great tutors for you as well in U/B)
Some things I notice in your list that is common in both types of T&L spellsinger but not in your deck and worth consideration would be wheel of fortune cards, cards that make your spells to cost less mana (AKA Arcane melee and friends), and a little bit of creature hate. With more filter and draw, it should make your instant win combo(s) easier to come across too.
You don't need many creatures to alpha strike with. I have won games with hasted 40+ power unblockable goblin electromancer attacking both my opponents on the same turn. Less creatures let you add powerful hate that will let you live longer - cards like Torpor Orb, Blasphemous Act, and with B, Damnation. You don't need a ton of control, just enough to see you to your storm or loop combos.
(And i do think a more prison oriented spellslinger is easily possible in UBR, but you start to lose the 'spellslinger' side of things. Part of what makes spellslinger so effective is the density of draw/ mana/ utility instants+ sorceries that all play off each other... then again and again... with forks or Past in Flame or Yawgmoths Will for some truly out of this world plays.)
TLDR of all this: IMHO you should think big turns, and setup for big turns. Skim bobs thread. Meditate on whether you want big storm spells or big stormed alphas strike, and commit 100% to whichever choice you want - letting the instant wins sort of just happen on the way sometimes.
edit: forgot to mention Turnabout. Casting Turnabout many times on the same turn is stupid fun.
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
That's the main reason for the exclusion of a lot of the tutors for now. I should probably put the budget tags on the top. I've mostly got this built as something to play besides Krenko, but I really want to make it as good as he is right now eventually.
Definitely a helpful post, thanks a lot. And I got my Turnabout Reiterate infinite last night, used to to cast the most epic of experiments
(And i do agree with grinning demon, I usually run a couple of wipes, pongify, chaos warp, cyclonic rift, echoing truth for tokens, torpor orb and a few counters as my removal of choice in UR spellslinger. That mix seems pretty good for my meta, yours is likely different)
Your deck looks fun, and I am excited to see how different UBR spellslingers start turning out now that we got 2 good generals for it!
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
My Trades
Yes, I feel like this deck wants to take as many additional combat phases & extra turns as possible:
Sieze the Day
World at War
Temporal Mastery
Time Warp
Time Stretch
Also, I think Sakashima the Impostor wants to be in here. It seems like attacking with 2 Jevelas is better than one.
Thread | Draft
Extra turns I don't want to add, though. A) It would just be too easy to win, B) I know what it's like sitting at a table with lots of extra turns. It already takes a long time to get around the table without these sorts of effects, and I don't want to be making everyone else's game suck.
EDIT: Updated the OP. Seize the Day did some work last night, love that card. Sadly, the LGS didn't have a Merchant Scroll in stock yesterday :\
this
Seize the day doesn't work with Jeleva's trigger ability. The oracle text on Seize the day changed to "After this main phase, there is an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase." So it doesn't do anything if Size the Day was cast during the combat phase.
I've heard this a few times, and I don't get what exactly is wrong. Besides maybe world at war this is the best of the extra combat cards. the only extra combats I avoid are the ones that aren't instant/sorcery.
I had a game with this card where Jeleva exiled seize and I cast it anyway. did nothing, i get it. Then I castrecoup during my second main, flashed it back for two, then flashed it for three rtfc. I also could have snapcastered it back.
I also could have tutored for it or drawn it naturally, not every card in your deck needs to be able to work flawlessly with Jeleva--lands don't and you still manage to justify playing those.
1. It is an instant/sorcery--Jeleva can cast it to get to the graveyard for free at the opportunity cost of not casting something else (which happens sometimes, or happens if Jeleva casts multiple things previous this card could be all that is left.
2. it is recurrable, it doesn't need to be used with just Jeleva, just one creature such as sphinx ambassador
3. it has its own flashback cost, works with cards that deal with flashback runic repetition or quiet speculation. Adds a lot of redundancy to commander decks that might care for it.
a) savage beating=more expensive, double strike doesn't matter, double red makes it harder to cast if drawn naturally, no main phase after first combat, limited window to cast ties up mana for killing a potential blocker/responding to trick cast by opponents.
b)world at war= double red is harder to cast, more expensive, rebound is GREAT--you may or may not have Jeleva in play next turn--so to ensure that the rebound is worth it better counter a board wipe (Jeleva is a great reason to board wipe/spot remove because she forcasts nearly everything that is coming an opponents way). same errata makes it needed to be cast during first main.
c)fury of the horde=double red less relevant due to higher later game oriented casting cost, great alt cost (good if drawing lots of cards, heavy red card concentration in deck [ie worse deck :o]), can be used to simply untap attackers if cast of Jeleva.
DEFGHSHSDF) any double combat tricks that arent instant/sorcery=not castable or savable in the event that they are exiled--too much non-synergy with me at this point, better of looking at multiple turn cards in blue.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
this is magic:thumbsup: not yugioh and I wouldn't want to pollute my deck with that crap. Deep hours might be good, but I wouldn't go more than one ninja--trick gets old quick.
I'm thinking of adding in a couple more Forking effects just for the hilarious Experiment chains.
(Maybe I'd be better off running Melek...)