I have had this mono black commander for awhile and I really want to improve it. I was looking for some help with what I should have in it. So far it's main goal is to either beat your opponent to the ground or use spells to one turn kill them.
You're going to have to a bit more specific if you want some help. Who's your general? What's the game plan? How much money are you willing to spend? Stuff like that.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Your best bet for deck specific help is to post your list in the relevant subforum. Without knowing what you already have in the deck, it's very difficult to make suggestions to improve it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Sorry but we are delving into deck construction and looking at decklists. I am going to move this to multiplayer where we can continue this. That being said, let me make some adjustments and get your list together.
EDIT: I added tags and merged your list together in sort of a hodgepodge way. This is a nice intro guide into utilizing the tags here on sally. You can also use the "Edit" button in the bottom right of all of your own posts to change them and add content to them if you would like.
A discard package is fine, but you're thinking too small. Upgrade to things like Mind Twist and Mind Shatter.
Not sure how much you want to focus on beats, but I think Drana or Korlash, Heir to Blackblade would probably be better as your general. Drana has built-in evasion and a versatile ability; Korlash gets big fast and has regenerate to help protect himself.
A discard package is fine, but you're thinking too small. Upgrade to things like Mind Twist and Mind Shatter.
Not sure how much you want to focus on beats, but I think Drana or Korlash, Heir to Blackblade would probably be better as your general. Drana has built-in evasion and a versatile ability; Korlash gets big fast and has regenerate to help protect himself.
These are all good suggestions (except mine are better for the discard) I just didn't want to get into the line items of the list of creatures what with Agent of the Fates with zero ways to trigger heroic and what not
Thanks for the feedback. I'm getting a top and cabal coffers, maze of ith, and urborg. But I'll also be putting a necropotence. plus I want an aether snap got this deck and some others like Kakusho, the evening star. Massacre wurm some other stuff like mind's eye.
I think including a few cards to maximize the potential of your general is a good idea. She is the card in the deck you will be able to play most frequently, and her ability can be a house. Prowler's Helm and Whispersilk Cloak can both help her connect. Trailblazer's Boots can also help here. Shizo and Rogue's Passage are good, and I'm glad to see those in here. You have some pretty scary beaters in here, so even if Ashling isn't around, you can equip these cards to one of those to help them get through. Crypt Ghast can make you more mana. I would take out Command Tower for another swamp. Caged Sun is another good mana card.
Go for the Throat is slightly unnecessary I would think, but the rest are good.
I realize in my initial response I left out Extraplanar Lens and Strata Scythe as two cards that might be good. One makes your general or a beater of your choice scary big, and the other does more ramping.
Thanks, I'll end up taking the command tower out soon. But I'll have to update this list soon because I put in some New cards. Plus its nice to spend two mana instead of 8 to kill a 6/6
Spot removal isn't all that great in EDH. Instant speed can be a factor, but I've found it's usually better to have removal "on a stick" (Having a creature that acts as removal) or removal that you can use repeatably. With this in mind, I would recommend Shriekmaw, Dark Hatchling, and Slaughter before I recommended Go for the Throat. Hero's Downfall is spot removal, but it also kills Planeswalkers, which is great since black has very few answers for noncreature permanents. Befoul gets around regeneration and can also be used to get rid of a land. In EDH, you want flexibility, and Go for the Throat just isn't all that flexible of a kill spell. Sure, it's nice to spend 2 mana instead of 8 to kill a 6/6. It's also nice to spend 5 mana and get a 3/2 with Fear, or 6 and get a 3/3 flyer.
Go for the Throat kills a majority of creatures in the format at instant speed. Spot removal (other than stuff like Drana) should be inexpensive and instant speed, as you want to use it to deal with the threats that affect you directly, and you want to do it at the last second. If someone else has to deal with whatever is threatening you, that's one less card you have to expend to keep someone in check.
Playing enormously costed value guys is only good if you have some way to take advantage of that. Something like Dark Hatchling is only good with some way to abuse the trigger, which would be heavy reanimation in this case. Seeing as the deck doesn't have that, there's really no reason to run it. You can get away with a higher curve due to the nature of the format (singleton and multiplayer), but it's still something you should take into account if you want your deck to do well consistently and paying 6 cmc sorcery speed spot removal is not helping it. If you must have your removal stapled to a creature etb, Shriekmaw is almost unquestionably the best because of its evoke cost. Bone Shredder is close behind it, because you're probably not winning by swinging with 3/3 creatures and the body is equally, if not more, abusable.
Speaking of your curve, it's abysmal. You're running 24 (!) cards cmc 6+, 35 lands, and almost no mana rocks or cheap draw in your originally posted list. You're going to run into some serious trouble playing out your higher costed stuff unless you're in a very forgiving meta, and even then you're going to be fighting your deck the whole time. When you're playing a general like Drana, who wants a lot of mana to do her thing, I would seriously consider cutting 4-5 of the high cost bombs for lands, another 3-5 of them for mana rocks, and another 3-5 of them for draw spells. You're still going to have some very painful opening hands, but you're going to find yourself able to make plays much more consistently that way.
Even though they aren't exciting, cheap draw spells like Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper can make the difference between an unkeepable hand and a solid one. They're never dead. Early game, they help you find land drops and important pieces to your strategy. Late game, they replace themselves and more at low cost. Phyrexian Arena is a good start, but some more draw < 4 cmc is going to go a long way towards getting you to the late game that you want.
Mana rocks are another way to do that. Black is very good at producing big mana, given an abundance of swamps, but you still want to be playing cards earlier in the game than turn five or six. Two drop mana rocks like Mind Stone, Fellwar Stone, Fractured Powerstone, Star Compass, Charcoal Diamond, and Coldsteel Heart help you get to that point faster. Note that the first three in that list all com in untapped, essentially only costing you one mana the turn you play them (including the one that seems like a planechase only inclusion). Past those you have more expensive rocks like Worn Powerstone, Coalition Relic, and Thran Dynamo, which can all provide multiple mana, as well as all of the mana doublers in black. While the big ones are wonderful for Drana, things like Caged Sun and Nirkana Revenant aren't really helpful as ramp. They don't get you to your high cost bombs faster. Not to say they aren't absolutely worthy of a spot, just that you also want to include some cheaper options.
Last thing I would suggest is that you take a look at some of your combos. Triskelion is a bad card here. It works in a single combo and you don't really have a way to make use of it outside of that. If you're not aggressively tutoring for Mike/Trike, you probably want to pull it. Same goes for Sanguine Bond. You don't have significant amounts of life gain, so it's dead outside of being a combo piece. If you have to have a late game combo option in the deck, pick one that you can reliably find and protect and stick with that. I don't really get the appeal of that, but it's something people do and it's a personal call. Otherwise, try and make your combo pieces cards that are going to advance your gameplan outside of the combo.
I know a lot of this doesn't seem like it's actually improving the deck at a glance, and that cutting bombs for the little gears and cogs that make a deck run smoothly feels like it's lowering the power of the deck. Adding those things in means that you're going to be able to play the game you want to play more consistently, and is probably going to be more fun in the long run.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Most of what I mentioned is common or uncommon, ignoring some of the big mana stuff, and a reasonable amount of it has been printed/reprinted recently. The point of all that wasn't so much specific changes you could consider making, but more offering you an idea of how you can make your deck run a little more smoothly. For example, Read the Bones over one of your numerous 6+ cmc bombs. Later in the game it helps you find one of your bombs anyways, without being a dead card in hand through the first 6 turns (or longer, if you have any trouble hitting land drops).
Your changes helped a little bit, but I'd still try and fit some more mana production in over a big bomb or two.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I second Weebo's suggestions. I play Drana myself and it's my favorite deck. The way you can really dump stupid big creatures into play with big mana mono black is so much fun! However, you should really watch your curve to get there. You can cut some corners, but you should really have a way to reliably drop swamps into play turn after turn or drop a mana doubler that stays on the board long enough. Nirkana Revanant and Caged Sun have giant "kill me" signs on them. You should play them, but don't expect them to stick around very long.
Card draw/advantage stays one of the most important aspects to compete, and luckily black has a few of these cards. Drawing ensures you get lands and the spells you want to play so badly. Good luck building this deck!
Thanks for the help I'll try to constantly make it better. But right now my goal is card draw, mana rocks, and great lands. I want volrath's stronghold, plus i want Kakusho, massacre wurm, and a batterskull. I wanted to get mind's eye, but what should I take out for it
1x Ashling, the Extinguisher
1x Barter in Blood
1x Beseech the queen
1x Blackmail
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Blood tribute
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Bloodline Keeper
1x Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
1x cabal coffers
1x Consuming Vapors
1x Damnation
1x Death cloud
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic tutor
1x Desecration Demon
1x Diabolic tutor
1x Dread
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Exquisite blood
1x Geth, Lord of the Vault
1x Gilded lotus
1x Go for the throat
1x Grave pact
1x Grave Titan
1x Guul Draz Assassin
1x Harvester of Souls
1x Hero's downfall
1x Homeward Path
1x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1x Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet
1x Karn Liberated
1x Life's Finale
1x Lightning greaves
1x Liliana of the dark realms
1x Liliana vess
1x Lord of the Void
1x Mana vault
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Mind Twist
1x Necropolis Regent
1x Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1x Oblivion stone
1x Oversold cemetery
1x Persecute
1x Phyrexian arena
1x Phyrexian Obliterator
1x Plague wind
1x Praetor's grasp
1x Reaper from the Abyss
1x Reiver Demon
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rise from the grave
1x Rogue's passage
1x Sanguine bond
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Sign in blood
1x Skirsdag High Priest
1x Sol Ring
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sorin markov
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Sudden Spoiling
29x swamps
1x Sword of fire and ice
1x Temple of the False God
1x Triskelion
1x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Vampire Nocturnus
1x Vesuva
1x Wurmcoil Engine
EDIT: I added tags and merged your list together in sort of a hodgepodge way. This is a nice intro guide into utilizing the tags here on sally. You can also use the "Edit" button in the bottom right of all of your own posts to change them and add content to them if you would like.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Run Cabal Conditioning and/or [CARD]Myojin of Night's
Reach[/CARD], probably not both
With so many boom booms you need more land one of which should be Homeward Path. Id say 5 more land in this list tbh.
Lotus Bloom is also very bad in this list.
Cut Bloom, Persecute, Hymn, Blackmail and let's say Demon of Death's Gate for
And I'm already a lot more comfortable with this. Cut another random creature for Sensei's Top and IMO it's much improved.
I think this deck would probably appreciate a big mana black package: Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Nirkana Revenant, and Crypt Ghast.
More Cabal Coffers, Deserted Temple, and Petrified Field wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Lotus Bloom seems meh. Just run Gilded Lotus instead.
A discard package is fine, but you're thinking too small. Upgrade to things like Mind Twist and Mind Shatter.
Not sure how much you want to focus on beats, but I think Drana or Korlash, Heir to Blackblade would probably be better as your general. Drana has built-in evasion and a versatile ability; Korlash gets big fast and has regenerate to help protect himself.
These are all good suggestions (except mine are better for the discard) I just didn't want to get into the line items of the list of creatures what with Agent of the Fates with zero ways to trigger heroic and what not
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
I realize in my initial response I left out Extraplanar Lens and Strata Scythe as two cards that might be good. One makes your general or a beater of your choice scary big, and the other does more ramping.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
I just made a Korlash, Heir to Blackblade EDH deck so I'm working on pushing into the mono black realm. Good luck!
R Ashling the Pilgrim [EDH]
GB Meren of Clan Nel Toth [EDH]
URG Animar, Soul of Elements [EDH]
BGW Doran, the Siege Tower [EDH]
GRW Marath of the Wild[EDH]
You don't necessarily need all that many kill spells (especially single target ones) when your general is a kill spell on a stick.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Not sure how I didn't notice this before but Mutilate deserves a spot in every mono-black EDH deck in my opinion.
R Ashling the Pilgrim [EDH]
GB Meren of Clan Nel Toth [EDH]
URG Animar, Soul of Elements [EDH]
BGW Doran, the Siege Tower [EDH]
GRW Marath of the Wild[EDH]
Playing enormously costed value guys is only good if you have some way to take advantage of that. Something like Dark Hatchling is only good with some way to abuse the trigger, which would be heavy reanimation in this case. Seeing as the deck doesn't have that, there's really no reason to run it. You can get away with a higher curve due to the nature of the format (singleton and multiplayer), but it's still something you should take into account if you want your deck to do well consistently and paying 6 cmc sorcery speed spot removal is not helping it. If you must have your removal stapled to a creature etb, Shriekmaw is almost unquestionably the best because of its evoke cost. Bone Shredder is close behind it, because you're probably not winning by swinging with 3/3 creatures and the body is equally, if not more, abusable.
Speaking of your curve, it's abysmal. You're running 24 (!) cards cmc 6+, 35 lands, and almost no mana rocks or cheap draw in your originally posted list. You're going to run into some serious trouble playing out your higher costed stuff unless you're in a very forgiving meta, and even then you're going to be fighting your deck the whole time. When you're playing a general like Drana, who wants a lot of mana to do her thing, I would seriously consider cutting 4-5 of the high cost bombs for lands, another 3-5 of them for mana rocks, and another 3-5 of them for draw spells. You're still going to have some very painful opening hands, but you're going to find yourself able to make plays much more consistently that way.
Even though they aren't exciting, cheap draw spells like Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper can make the difference between an unkeepable hand and a solid one. They're never dead. Early game, they help you find land drops and important pieces to your strategy. Late game, they replace themselves and more at low cost. Phyrexian Arena is a good start, but some more draw < 4 cmc is going to go a long way towards getting you to the late game that you want.
Mana rocks are another way to do that. Black is very good at producing big mana, given an abundance of swamps, but you still want to be playing cards earlier in the game than turn five or six. Two drop mana rocks like Mind Stone, Fellwar Stone, Fractured Powerstone, Star Compass, Charcoal Diamond, and Coldsteel Heart help you get to that point faster. Note that the first three in that list all com in untapped, essentially only costing you one mana the turn you play them (including the one that seems like a planechase only inclusion). Past those you have more expensive rocks like Worn Powerstone, Coalition Relic, and Thran Dynamo, which can all provide multiple mana, as well as all of the mana doublers in black. While the big ones are wonderful for Drana, things like Caged Sun and Nirkana Revenant aren't really helpful as ramp. They don't get you to your high cost bombs faster. Not to say they aren't absolutely worthy of a spot, just that you also want to include some cheaper options.
Last thing I would suggest is that you take a look at some of your combos. Triskelion is a bad card here. It works in a single combo and you don't really have a way to make use of it outside of that. If you're not aggressively tutoring for Mike/Trike, you probably want to pull it. Same goes for Sanguine Bond. You don't have significant amounts of life gain, so it's dead outside of being a combo piece. If you have to have a late game combo option in the deck, pick one that you can reliably find and protect and stick with that. I don't really get the appeal of that, but it's something people do and it's a personal call. Otherwise, try and make your combo pieces cards that are going to advance your gameplan outside of the combo.
I know a lot of this doesn't seem like it's actually improving the deck at a glance, and that cutting bombs for the little gears and cogs that make a deck run smoothly feels like it's lowering the power of the deck. Adding those things in means that you're going to be able to play the game you want to play more consistently, and is probably going to be more fun in the long run.
Your changes helped a little bit, but I'd still try and fit some more mana production in over a big bomb or two.
Card draw/advantage stays one of the most important aspects to compete, and luckily black has a few of these cards. Drawing ensures you get lands and the spells you want to play so badly. Good luck building this deck!
BRGWTana and TymnaBRGW
RTeneb, the EternalR
UBRNekusar, Mind RazerUBR
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGWGhave, Guru of SporesBGW
Aurelia, the Warleader
BDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefB
WBROros, the AvengerWBR
BRGWTana and TymnaBRGW
RTeneb, the EternalR
UBRNekusar, Mind RazerUBR
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGWGhave, Guru of SporesBGW
Aurelia, the Warleader
BDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefB
WBROros, the AvengerWBR