This is a deck spawned from the idea of breaking parity with Shattergang Brothers through the mass production of tokens. The list has been somewhat thought out, trying to find different avenues of recursion and abuse, stifling opponents from being productive.
You will need a lot of different types of tokens to play this deck. I'm talking goblins, worms, wolves, snakes, faeries, Eldrazi spawn, squirrels, goats, golems, myrs, satyrs, beasts, and kobolds OH MY!
(^this wasn't even the original goal either; it just turned out this way haha)
This deck's curve tops out at 5. I will be constantly blowing up resources and trying to deny mana. It's going to be hard to keep up, especially with Shattergang's expensive activation cost.
Several of the cheapest token producers have been included to take the most advantage of Shattergang Brothers, Braids, Cabal Minion, and Smokestacks.
The ramp package I would think is up to snuff, but I might need even more. I want to be in a position to not care about my permanents, and the way to do that is to flood the board early with mana.
Varying permanent types, such as Aspect of Mongoose and Myr Turbine, allow the deck to attack multiple permanent types per Shattergang's abilities.
Credit goes to Bugeteer for the initial ideas! I could probably chill a bit on token generation and focus a bit more on things to do with the tokens, like Mind Slash as a great example.
I'm a bit leery of Goblin Assault due to making your goblin creatures attack and the Bros. being goblins will have to attack as well.
True that. I'm a bit heavy on token producers as is. Thinking about Shivan Harvest, Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar as potential sac outlets that this deck is a bit light on.
Some unexpensive win conditions would be nice too, although I fully expect to just wear my opponents down until I can just kill them with an army of critters.
EDIT:
Also thinking about The Abyss and some more planeswalkers. This is the perfect deck to just have a bunch of super friends, since you can keep the board devoid of attackers.
I would use Shivan Harvest mainly due to me being an arse when it comes to attrition control. Along with the fact that most of my playgroup use a lot of non-basic lands. Maybe also change the artifact lands for the karoo lands so that way you only have to tap one land to activate it (Gruul Turf/Rakdos Carnarium).
I would use Shivan Harvest mainly due to me being an arse when it comes to attrition control. Along with the fact that most of my playgroup use a lot of non-basic lands. Maybe also change the artifact lands for the karoo lands so that way you only have to tap one land to activate it (Gruul Turf/Rakdos Carnarium).
The artifact lands seem like they were included so he had free artifacts to play to sacrifice to the Bros if he needs to. The Karoo lands are really just begging to be two for one'ed in a competitive meta, not to mention the nonbo with Destructive Flow, which while his land base isn't built to ignore could definitely have moments of two for one-ing himself.
Also, it might be too slow thanks to it's high place on the curve, but what about Worm Harvest as a potential late game finisher? Between your own fetches and all the stax effects it seems as though you could get a lot of guys built up quickly from only one or two castings of it.
The Karoo lands are really just begging to be two for one'ed in a competitive meta, not to mention the nonbo with Destructive Flow, which while his land base isn't built to ignore
Speaking of which, I'd think about either building a mana base that's significantly more resilient to Flow and then throw in a Blood Moon and maybe Magus of the Moon for good measure, or keep the current base and drop Flow all together.
To explain further: Stax abilities are a lot better when they don't hurt you as much as your opponents - which is why it's a build-around strategy. You've covered this with your spells by adopting a token-making strategy, but it doesn't make sense to include a Stax effect that targets everyone's mana bases when you're playing a mana base that is going to be as susceptible or even more susceptible than the average opponent's. And I know you're playing plenty of rocks, but still, I don't see the point of hurting yourself any more than you have to.
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
I am also glad to see a stax specific list. I'm on the fence with my build. It's still in my brain mostly as I can't determine if a mid-range token combo deck with stax elements and some spicy land destruction is better than a committed stax strategy.
The artifact lands seem like they were included so he had free artifacts to play to sacrifice to the Bros if he needs to. The Karoo lands are really just begging to be two for one'ed in a competitive meta, not to mention the nonbo with Destructive Flow, which while his land base isn't built to ignore could definitely have moments of two for one-ing himself.
Also, it might be too slow thanks to it's high place on the curve, but what about Worm Harvest as a potential late game finisher? Between your own fetches and all the stax effects it seems as though you could get a lot of guys built up quickly from only one or two castings of it.
Speaking of which, I'd think about either building a mana base that's significantly more resilient to Flow and then throw in a Blood Moon and maybe Magus of the Moon for good measure, or keep the current base and drop Flow all together.
To explain further: Stax abilities are a lot better when they don't hurt you as much as your opponents - which is why it's a build-around strategy. You've covered this with your spells by adopting a token-making strategy, but it doesn't make sense to include a Stax effect that targets everyone's mana bases when you're playing a mana base that is going to be as susceptible or even more susceptible than the average opponent's. And I know you're playing plenty of rocks, but still, I don't see the point of hurting yourself any more than you have to.
Wildfire had the same advice. I have edited the mana base to include ~15 basics. This hurts my greedy soul a little bit, but you guys are right. This allows me to play Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon as well.
I am also glad to see a stax specific list. I'm on the fence with my build. It's still in my brain mostly as I can't determine if a mid-range token combo deck with stax elements and some spicy land destruction is better than a committed stax strategy.
I guess I'm not AS worried about Winter Orb since I have so many artifact ramp. I also included Goblin Welder as a way to really abuse the stax artifacts, although I'm considering cutting him since his uses are so limited. WOrb is another one of those "it hurts you a lot more than it hurts me" cards. I can also always sac it at someone's EOT so I get the full untap benefit.
Ive been waiting for a neat list, but how does it win?
It doesn't, really, as with most stax lists. It can just go for token beatdown, since I have so many sources of free token making. Stifling opponents and slowly chipping away at them. The greatest weakness will probably getting your board sweeped, but that has always been a weakness of stax.
I think that Mind Stone is better than Prismatic Lens unless you really need the colored mana, in which case I'd probably run Coldsteel Heart instead despite coming in tapped.
Mox Opal is actually a little harder to turn on than one would think, especially when you need it early. By the time you get it online something like Coalition Relic might be better. Have you found it's worth it? Chrome Mox or Jeweled Amulet might be options if you want something very fast, in the very least a little more consistent.
Bloodline Keeper is another 4CC token producer if you're looking for more. Uba Mask is a beating in a strict stax shell, ensuring that your opponent's will be exiling most of the cards they draw. Have you considered Nether Void? Coupled with mana denial it means that they won't be able to cast much. Plus, you can still cast things like Reassembling Skeleton and it doesn't matter if it's countered.
Survival of the Fittest / Squee, Goblin Nabob combo might be good here as well for tutoring to both hand and graveyard (and Squee can serve as a recurable fodder in a pinch)
I like Phyrexian Altar a lot for being a sac outlet and being able to produce colored mana.
I think that Mind Stone is better than Prismatic Lens unless you really need the colored mana, in which case I'd probably run Coldsteel Heart instead despite coming in tapped.
Mox Opal is actually a little harder to turn on than one would think, especially when you need it early. By the time you get it online something like Coalition Relic might be better. Have you found it's worth it? Chrome Mox or Jeweled Amulet might be options if you want something very fast, in the very least a little more consistent.
Bloodline Keeper is another 4CC token producer if you're looking for more. Uba Mask is a beating in a strict stax shell, ensuring that your opponent's will be exiling most of the cards they draw. Have you considered Nether Void? Coupled with mana denial it means that they won't be able to cast much. Plus, you can still cast things like Reassembling Skeleton and it doesn't matter if it's countered.
Survival of the Fittest / Squee, Goblin Nabob combo might be good here as well for tutoring to both hand and graveyard (and Squee can serve as a recurable fodder in a pinch)
I like Phyrexian Altar a lot for being a sac outlet and being able to produce colored mana.
Awesome advice. I've updated the list with a lot more of your guys' suggestions. I've been stuck between playing this list and Prossh...till I realized that Prossh could play like a combo / light stax list. I'll probably be brewing that later, and it'll probably be stronger than this list.
One issue I find with this deck is that I'm not sure if I can run the harsher locks, like Nether Void. I suffer just as much as everyone else, since my general is a lock piece and not breaking parity, like GAAIV. I would still say that such a powerful lock piece, like Shattergang, is stronger for an attrition-type strategy, and it's more about overproducing to compensate for the appetite of the general.
In this sense, I think I should probably shave down on cards like Winter Orb. This deck is mana hungry and needs the mana to operate, so I would rather run cards like Tangle Wire to muddy up the game and clean the rest with Shattergang. That and I'm not running a ton of ways to break parity with WOrb. That's more of a Derevi / Edric type card, IMO.
The list as is stands with 103 cards. I'm having trouble figuring out what is and isn't necessary. First glance shows that Parallel Lives and Doubling Season may be overkill, but I think they're quite powerful in this deck and can serve as both win conditions and ways to really pull ahead and make stax work.
I also know everyone loves Hammer of Purphoros, but I think that card is coming off the list first. It may be flexible, but it's expensive to use, and I'd be 2-for-1ing myself hardcore. I think that's an easy pass. I'm also going to cut Chrome Mox and Pox. Both are situational and slightly good at times, but I feel overall that I can't deal with the disadvantage from either.
Lastly, also cut Sadistic Hypnotist. I don't generate enough tokens to take proper advantage of it - Mind Slash is much better.
I like all of your cuts, I would have made similar suggestions. Although, I do like Sadistic Hypnotist over Mind Slash. It knocks two cards instead of one, is easier to tutor and recur, and doesn't take any mana to activate which is nice since this deck needs a lot.
I'm not sure on Destructive Flow, it seems to hurt you just as much as your opponents since you have so many nonbasics. It's a similar card to me as Winter Orb or Nether Void, symmetrical denial of resources. It might be better to let them have their land and then drop something like Ritual of Subdual or Primal Order when you're a little ahead.
Now that you've cut most of the land hate, I'd probably include a couple of the cheaper mana ramp spells, things like Farseek and Cultivate. Growth Spasm is especially good here.
Updated the list thanks to Darklich's suggestions. I haven't tested the deck yet, but I think Shattergang is a ramp/stax deck that doesn't technically use mass LD. Instead, it wants to keep its mana and shave away at opponents with "fairmageddons". Token-based win conditions, such as Beastmaster Ascension, Purphoros, God of the Forge, help move the deck along by dinging your opponents constantly.
What do you guys think, not running any MLD?
Also, I need help cutting two cards
Updated the list thanks to Darklich's suggestions. I haven't tested the deck yet, but I think Shattergang is a ramp/stax deck that doesn't technically use mass LD. Instead, it wants to keep its mana and shave away at opponents with "fairmageddons". Token-based win conditions, such as Beastmaster Ascension, Purphoros, God of the Forge, help move the deck along by dinging your opponents constantly.
What do you guys think, not running any MLD?
Also, I need help cutting two cards
That's where i am at but i'm toying with a suite of creatures that search for basics on etb or self sac. This lets me run tectonic break or hold a few lands and drop keldon firebombers, and it leaves creatures on the board to block early aggro or sac to the general. The list still runs artifact ramp but i'm more interested in sol ring, crypt and mana vault for an early boost.
You will need a lot of different types of tokens to play this deck. I'm talking goblins, worms, wolves, snakes, faeries, Eldrazi spawn, squirrels, goats, golems, myrs, satyrs, beasts, and kobolds OH MY!
(^this wasn't even the original goal either; it just turned out this way haha)
1 Shattergang Brothers
//Engines
1 Bitterblossom
1 Awakening Zone
1 Ophiomancer
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Trading Post
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Myr Turbine
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
//Abuse
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Parallel Lives
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
//Tutors
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Gamble
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
//Stax
1 Torpor Orb
1 Winter Orb
1 Tangle Wire
1 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Contamination
1 Smokestack
1 Nether Void
1 Stranglehold
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Death Cloud
1 Goblin Welder
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Glissa, the Traitor
//Draw
1 Skullclamp
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dark Confidant
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Memory Jar
//Ramp
1 Exploration
1 Earthcraft
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Golgari Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Talisman of Impulse
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Kher Keep
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Tree of Tales
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Great Furnace
6 Swamp
6 Forest
3 Mountain
Notes
Credit goes to Bugeteer for the initial ideas! I could probably chill a bit on token generation and focus a bit more on things to do with the tokens, like Mind Slash as a great example.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
True that. I'm a bit heavy on token producers as is. Thinking about Shivan Harvest, Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar as potential sac outlets that this deck is a bit light on.
Some unexpensive win conditions would be nice too, although I fully expect to just wear my opponents down until I can just kill them with an army of critters.
EDIT:
Also thinking about The Abyss and some more planeswalkers. This is the perfect deck to just have a bunch of super friends, since you can keep the board devoid of attackers.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
The artifact lands seem like they were included so he had free artifacts to play to sacrifice to the Bros if he needs to. The Karoo lands are really just begging to be two for one'ed in a competitive meta, not to mention the nonbo with Destructive Flow, which while his land base isn't built to ignore could definitely have moments of two for one-ing himself.
Also, it might be too slow thanks to it's high place on the curve, but what about Worm Harvest as a potential late game finisher? Between your own fetches and all the stax effects it seems as though you could get a lot of guys built up quickly from only one or two castings of it.
Speaking of which, I'd think about either building a mana base that's significantly more resilient to Flow and then throw in a Blood Moon and maybe Magus of the Moon for good measure, or keep the current base and drop Flow all together.
To explain further: Stax abilities are a lot better when they don't hurt you as much as your opponents - which is why it's a build-around strategy. You've covered this with your spells by adopting a token-making strategy, but it doesn't make sense to include a Stax effect that targets everyone's mana bases when you're playing a mana base that is going to be as susceptible or even more susceptible than the average opponent's. And I know you're playing plenty of rocks, but still, I don't see the point of hurting yourself any more than you have to.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I am also glad to see a stax specific list. I'm on the fence with my build. It's still in my brain mostly as I can't determine if a mid-range token combo deck with stax elements and some spicy land destruction is better than a committed stax strategy.
One thought I have for your deck: Seedborn Muse, Bear Umbra and Sword of Feast and Famine would let you get around your own Stasis and Winter Orb while also giving you extra mana to activate your Diabolic Edict abilities on Shatterbang Brothers.
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Nature's Will along the same vein. But Earthcraft is cheaper than all those, is really good with tokens, and goes infinite with Squirrel Nest.
Wildfire had the same advice. I have edited the mana base to include ~15 basics. This hurts my greedy soul a little bit, but you guys are right. This allows me to play Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon as well.
Worm Harvest is definitely in consideration.
I guess I'm not AS worried about Winter Orb since I have so many artifact ramp. I also included Goblin Welder as a way to really abuse the stax artifacts, although I'm considering cutting him since his uses are so limited. WOrb is another one of those "it hurts you a lot more than it hurts me" cards. I can also always sac it at someone's EOT so I get the full untap benefit.
It doesn't, really, as with most stax lists. It can just go for token beatdown, since I have so many sources of free token making. Stifling opponents and slowly chipping away at them. The greatest weakness will probably getting your board sweeped, but that has always been a weakness of stax.
True all of this. Will consider.
---
I've edited the list to have ~15 basics, include cards like Exploration and Oracle of Mul Daya, as well as Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon. I also took out Aspect of Mongoose and Sword of the Meek - I think they might be too cute. If you guys have more ideas, please post!
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Mox Opal is actually a little harder to turn on than one would think, especially when you need it early. By the time you get it online something like Coalition Relic might be better. Have you found it's worth it? Chrome Mox or Jeweled Amulet might be options if you want something very fast, in the very least a little more consistent.
Bloodline Keeper is another 4CC token producer if you're looking for more. Uba Mask is a beating in a strict stax shell, ensuring that your opponent's will be exiling most of the cards they draw. Have you considered Nether Void? Coupled with mana denial it means that they won't be able to cast much. Plus, you can still cast things like Reassembling Skeleton and it doesn't matter if it's countered.
Survival of the Fittest / Squee, Goblin Nabob combo might be good here as well for tutoring to both hand and graveyard (and Squee can serve as a recurable fodder in a pinch)
I like Phyrexian Altar a lot for being a sac outlet and being able to produce colored mana.
Also, yeah. Earthcraft.
Awesome advice. I've updated the list with a lot more of your guys' suggestions. I've been stuck between playing this list and Prossh...till I realized that Prossh could play like a combo / light stax list. I'll probably be brewing that later, and it'll probably be stronger than this list.
One issue I find with this deck is that I'm not sure if I can run the harsher locks, like Nether Void. I suffer just as much as everyone else, since my general is a lock piece and not breaking parity, like GAAIV. I would still say that such a powerful lock piece, like Shattergang, is stronger for an attrition-type strategy, and it's more about overproducing to compensate for the appetite of the general.
In this sense, I think I should probably shave down on cards like Winter Orb. This deck is mana hungry and needs the mana to operate, so I would rather run cards like Tangle Wire to muddy up the game and clean the rest with Shattergang. That and I'm not running a ton of ways to break parity with WOrb. That's more of a Derevi / Edric type card, IMO.
The list as is stands with 103 cards. I'm having trouble figuring out what is and isn't necessary. First glance shows that Parallel Lives and Doubling Season may be overkill, but I think they're quite powerful in this deck and can serve as both win conditions and ways to really pull ahead and make stax work.
I also know everyone loves Hammer of Purphoros, but I think that card is coming off the list first. It may be flexible, but it's expensive to use, and I'd be 2-for-1ing myself hardcore. I think that's an easy pass. I'm also going to cut Chrome Mox and Pox. Both are situational and slightly good at times, but I feel overall that I can't deal with the disadvantage from either.
Lastly, also cut Sadistic Hypnotist. I don't generate enough tokens to take proper advantage of it - Mind Slash is much better.
Opinions?
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
I'm not sure on Destructive Flow, it seems to hurt you just as much as your opponents since you have so many nonbasics. It's a similar card to me as Winter Orb or Nether Void, symmetrical denial of resources. It might be better to let them have their land and then drop something like Ritual of Subdual or Primal Order when you're a little ahead.
Now that you've cut most of the land hate, I'd probably include a couple of the cheaper mana ramp spells, things like Farseek and Cultivate. Growth Spasm is especially good here.
Some token producers you're missing and might want to include: Ant Queen, Artifact Mutation, Breeding Pit, Deranged Hermit, Dragon Broodmother, Dragonmaster Outcast, Empty the Warrens, Garruk Relentless, Goblin Assault, Imperious Perfect, Jund Battlemage, Mogg War Marshal, Mycoloth, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf (good with Sadistic Hypnotist), Sengir Autocrat, Siege-Gang Commander, Skeletal Vampire, Sprout Swarm, Words of Wilding, Young Pyromancer, Zombie Infestation
I'd keep Parallel Lives but cut Doubling Season. You're not really dealing with +1/+1 counters that much and two of these effects seem like overkill.
Also, Vicious Shadows - Great wincon for a token deck. Same with Beastmaster Ascension if you want to go that route.
What do you guys think, not running any MLD?
Also, I need help cutting two cards
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
That's where i am at but i'm toying with a suite of creatures that search for basics on etb or self sac. This lets me run tectonic break or hold a few lands and drop keldon firebombers, and it leaves creatures on the board to block early aggro or sac to the general. The list still runs artifact ramp but i'm more interested in sol ring, crypt and mana vault for an early boost.
My goal for the midgame is to use resulting mana advantage to pick away at my opponents while searching for win-cons (Vicious Shadows, Beast Master Ascension, Triumph of the Hordes, etc.
Perhaps consider cutting Deathrite Shaman and Prismatic Lens.
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW