Thanks for the suggestion do you see anything you would cut?
I did not really think about intuition piles as I'm
Pretty good at making them on the fly with an actual board state and cards in hand. After playing DD and intuition inane decks I'm fairly confident in piling. I pulled intuition in both games and it won me one and was great in both I used it "politically" both times no special life from
Loam piles yet. I lost the first game prett much to bitter blossom
And mama crypt which I quickly cut for life gift. The second game I won I also came very close to killing myself and almost lost becuase I had used cyclonic rift it got exiled and I didn't have another wrath I added deeds and verdict after that game. So far the decks felt very strong the only one kiling me was myself I've tried to fix this ... If I had life gift the second game I think I played / fetched through 30 lands by myself. Anyway cuts I'm having problems with. is sylvan library worth it here damage is much more relivant than I am used too.
Garruk Wildspeaker is very good with Stasis, Winter Orb & Static Orb and he can also act as a win condition if you're able to lock the board down hard enough. He's been very good for me in my Vorel Stasis deck. I eventually cut it as my deck is becoming more of a Worb deck but Forsaken City can be used to pay for Stasis indefinitely, just something to consider. Normally I don't like this card much but if you're locking the game down Consecrated Sphinx will win you the game if it doesn't get killed. It's like the EDH Howling Mine for Stasis decks.
I'm kind of interested at how this deck plays out as Lockdown and Stax are a little at odds with one another. Nobody should care about sac'ing tapped lands to Braids if you have a Worb in play for example since the land isn't going to untap anyways.
For cuts I'd say ditch Lifegift. It does nothing other than gain life and if your deck can't win with 40 life adding in lifegain probably isn't the solution.
Thanks for your input. I find most of your decks really good do you have a link to your build I song see it in your sig. I think I agree with you while I didnt draw braids or smokestack I didn't want to draw them I agree with what you said I'm still fairly new to the archetype outside if mtgos classic stasis decks I'm fairly uninformed. If I cut the sac I don't know how much I need skullclamp or bitterblossom. Bitter blossom was actualy really good without the sac effects. Clamp seems ok with my general regaurdless but I'm unsure. Life gift I never really liked I really just possibly over reacted to killing myself twice due to lack of wrath effects. How do you Guys like mists of stagnation? I feel like I'd need some gy hate but that not a bad thing lelyline nihilspellbomb and relic of progenitus all seem fine though I don't want to exile My yard and I dont have a duffle effect other than time spiral I don't know if that's going to be an issue or not. I also don't know of I like sylvan library here or not but it's just such a good card I'm inclined to let it stay for now. Smokestack is a very good card but you may be right about not using it here it's hard to say. The Armegeddon and sunder have worked just as I wanted them too they seems better for this
How does
- stomping grounds
- braids cabal minion
- life gift
- Smokestack
I should not have forgotten city it's played in most classic stasis decks on modo. Thanks for input more please! Despite typically only liking fast storm style Combo decks this deck has me hooked playing 30 turns and almost losing when your up 25 mana sources is funny.
Edit: need a slot for fabricate forgot that one looking for help with more ideas on cuts what looks weakest here?
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Thank you for the Kismet Suggestion it is now in the list :). I played a few games with this after some updates and your suggestions have been awesome garruck got some work done clock got work done. Worked in my fabricate win games by winter orb static orb stasis or good old crucible lots of exploration effects. the deck feels more explosive now than it had even a few changes ago im locking people out hard from the word go gettign stasis locks on 10 mana turn 5 its been pretty sick
+ Forsaken City
+ Garruk Wildspeaker
+ Clock of Omens ( i said the wrong card earlier)
+ Consecrated Sphinx
+ Kismet
+ Yawgmoth's Will
+ Green Sun's Zenith
+ Fabricate
I was hoping we could brainstorm together as I'm pretty new to the prison archetype in EDH myself. So far I've been very happy with how it's been running after I ironed out some of the difficulties I was having. As you'll notice aside from Tangle Wire and some cards I already own it's a fairly budget build though I'm interested in working on a paper list which would have no budget restrictions.
The changes you made look great and gives your deck some more focus. Hopefully they'll play out well for you. Recently I added in Simic Growth Chamber and the land has been simply amazing with Orbs and Garruk Wildspeaker. I'm not sure what the best option would be for you for lands that tap for more than 1 mana. Dimir Aqueducts might be OK even though it produces only 2 colors but you don't want to waste tutors on it and Crop Rotation isn't very good in your deck so it may not be worth the effort. Another card I was thinking of was Utopia Sprawl to create a similar effect. It also gives you better fixing and is not a bad ramp card on turn 1. Maybe try it over BoP?
I would seriously consider switching from Sliver Queen to Child of Alara as your general. I understand the Queen can crap out tokens to feed sac effects and beat for 7, however there will be times when you need to blow out the board. Child gives you that option, it also comes with 6 power and trample.
Cursed Totem should also be seriously considered as it shuts off many generals and creature based combos.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Captain Temper-Tantrum does lend himself to control more easily than Sliver Queen. That said, you also have to let him hit the graveyard to clear the board. If you're going that road, you'll need some recursion or bin hate to get him back, and a sac outlet to bin him on demand. My recursion of choice is Volrath's Stronghold. Other options include Genesis and Corpse Dance. Each has pros and cons.
Obscenely hard to find (I know, I have a playset, took years to find them)
No mana ability
May require some parroting of errata text (I've watched my opponent attempt to amateur rules-lawyer out of legacy life combo using the printed text of this card)
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
@ Donald I like the idea of a bounce land or 2 in that they are pretty good with Azusa and winter orb my decks currently 29U 18G 9B 9W 3R so i could cut another red source for a Simic growth chamber but other than that tap lands are not something i like very much at all. I will give one a test run and see how I feel ,However im not sold I had planned on thinning 1-2 more red sources for utility lands that I felt would be good after more testing. I have also been eyeballing a few red cards so I may want the sources. There is one card which name currently escapes me that’s like a tap all land kismet but it hits you too :/ not brave enough for that just yet. Dryad arbor is an interesting card with GSZ in the deck. Taping for only 1 color and not being fetchable dying to wrath and just in general being not the land you want too see in your hand but using GSZ at 2 instead still ramps us one which i will harp right now
Added in the middle forgot to mention BoP vs Sprawl . Bop is better here it doesn’t get worbed at all is a good backup GSZ target in a tight hand on mana and sprawl only targets forests this is not a problem as im fetching one for the birds anyway right but lets be real im in five colors choosing a color < any color.
Aside- I want to fit back in ponder the thought of cutting Eternal witness was my first having just added yawgwin and not caring as much about cute interactions or having a better tutor target with 2 of my tutors 1/10 times that im not getting muse or azusa. Much like dryad arbor I don’t want to see it in my hand especially when I should be using the tutor to get the azusa for crucible fun or wheeling / insight. Its been fairly easy to just get crucible Azusa strip one of my favorite old combos and just hit the lands they untap with Worb or just pop Armageddon or sunder and strip lock them out after puking lands as needed. So the purpose of the creature tutors is pretty clear whats not clear now is what im ADDING for the witness. Now I know I said I want ponder back in which I do! But the reason its such an easy cut in the testing phase despite being very important to deck flow is that it doesn’t have many interactions here so I want to test more cards instead. Segway!
On to your list. One card in particular really caught my eye! As she always has …..
Tamiyo, the moon Sage- Man I always want this card to be good but it never is. However im normally playing pure streamlined combo and now im not ! So far garruk and jace and tezz have all been amazing when I get them down. Tamiyo really seems to fit the bill and I ripped one in like my third pack of the set and it’s never last in one of my decks more than a few appearances. How has she been tell me this is her one true home ponder can take a break preordain and brainstorm do truly feel much better here especially when I play a very high tutor density in 5 colors (and pretend the word draw on a cmc1 card doesn’t make most of these better). The tap seems stupidly strong and I would love nothing more than to perma stasis lock a table with an active tamiyo and a never ending chain of vapor from hell. My concern is shes 5 mana which is a lot tezzeret is an exception with his untap abilty but its hard to tap out to her in a worb lock or a stasis lock and being that 1 turn slower may make her harder to keep around luckily this “fog” gets to pump and tap down threats or mana so she can toughen up and I think effects like this “fog” are naturally taking care of the life loss issue I had (that and cutting the life loss cards XD)
@ Jakalova I would have to dilute my deck to make him work I already have enough tutors to find answers I see him as more of a liability than an asset as I can’t just mindlessly drop him like I can queen right before I go to lock a board or a simple putrefy or GFTT and I just blew myself out that’s not a threat I can ride to victory in a lock it’s problem unless I make some changes which I really don’t want too. Queen can swing hard and make blockers in a pinch she’s not amazing but compared to the other generals I think she’s best even with cutting my sac stax type cards. Though I have cast her just once as you won’t need your general think of my general as seedborn muse or Azusa I just get to play 5 colors. Cursed totem is a fine card in the right meta but I don’t think I need it it doesn’t really go with my plan the more focused I get the better my results.
@ omega – Very good post I thanks for leaving it there but I don’t think ill be playing the big baby. As far as how long it takes to lock well im not sure. I have blown everyone out of the game with Azusa on turn 4 I have locked a table with tangle wire my first game starting t3 and I bounced it and played static orb behind it. Other games I have dropped collective restraint frozen ather slow rolled some plains walkers and waited for a tap down to finally tutor up my stasis with a mastermind sitting there in play looking all innocent for multiple turns. Then one guy goes “I guess you waiting for us to concede to win as he sees stasis” me “silence” bounce stasis tutor aszua drop stasis next round bounce stasis pop recurring insight for 7 find strip mine. So I guess I do win by concession most games but despite this deck having slow grindy games if you don’t watch your back it will just blow you out. So no its not a friend maker. And yes your karona lock is cool
On to your list. One card in particular really caught my eye! As she always has …..
Tamiyo, the moon Sage- Man I always want this card to be good but it never is. However im normally playing pure streamlined combo and now im not ! So far garruk and jace and tezz have all been amazing when I get them down. Tamiyo really seems to fit the bill and I ripped one in like my third pack of the set and it’s never last in one of my decks more than a few appearances. How has she been tell me this is her one true home ponder can take a break preordain and brainstorm do truly feel much better here especially when I play a very high tutor density in 5 colors (and pretend the word draw on a cmc1 card doesn’t make most of these better). The tap seems stupidly strong and I would love nothing more than to perma stasis lock a table with an active tamiyo and a never ending chain of vapor from hell. My concern is shes 5 mana which is a lot tezzeret is an exception with his untap abilty but its hard to tap out to her in a worb lock or a stasis lock and being that 1 turn slower may make her harder to keep around luckily this “fog” gets to pump and tap down threats or mana so she can toughen up and I think effects like this “fog” are naturally taking care of the life loss issue I had (that and cutting the life loss cards XD)
She's been really good the few times I've seen her but I'm still not 100% on her. The card draw was really lackluster but the tap ability is fantastic at stopping big beaters and locking down their board but I think Jace would fill that roll better since you just bounce them then lock their land. But really there aren't very many walkers that aren't good on a board that's been slowed to a glacial crawl. I still haven't been able to cheese people with Doubling Season yet so maybe my opinion will go up if that happens.
You might also consider Ral Zarek, he can be decent with stasis strategies. Crucible of worlds will also be much stronger for yourself once the table is locked if you can guarantee that it will grant you a land drop every turn. You could therefore contemplate adding a land sac-outlet such as Zuran Orb or simply something like Petrified field.
@BWV i dont currently own ral but he looks brutal for 1v1 and still brtual under worb here ill try to get ahold of one.
Well i played the list in the op 3 times in multi and 1 dual all wins and conceedes around turn 6 3 of the games the 1v1 i got lucky poping a time spiral hitting cylonic + a full lock for the follow up turn when i was dead on board. he replayed most of his hand (elves) i had so much mana and double walkers from crucible engine off tezz that my follow up turn was like gilded lotus into thran into azusa into 4 stripmines into Deed for 3 with muse in hand and a fabricate to get orb.
The redundancy of kismet has been awesome the effect is just stupidly good here. I remember some cmc 4 elephant thing that i think does something similar might look into that
@BWV i dont currently own ral but he looks brutal for 1v1 and still brtual under worb here ill try to get ahold of one.
Well i played the list in the op 3 times in multi and 1 dual all wins and conceedes around turn 6 3 of the games the 1v1 i got lucky poping a time spiral hitting cylonic + a full lock for the follow up turn when i was dead on board. he replayed most of his hand (elves) i had so much mana and double walkers from crucible engine off tezz that my follow up turn was like gilded lotus into thran into azusa into 4 stripmines into Deed for 3 with muse in hand and a fabricate to get orb.
The redundancy of kismet has been awesome the effect is just stupidly good here. I remember some cmc 4 elephant thing that i think does something similar might look into that
Hmm 2WW is less apeaking when I have 2 kismet effects but they are just so good think I'll pass on him for the moment becuase the more I think about ral
The more I think he's just what I wanted. Awesome suggestion I'm
Gonna pick up a digital and paper copy ASAP. Side note can i bounce and replay Azusa to get more land drops? I'm thinking yes but I'm not sure want to know becuase sometimes 3 strips a turn is not enough would be good synergy with mastermind
Side note can i bounce and replay Azusa to get more land drops? I'm thinking yes but I'm not sure want to know becuase sometimes 3 strips a turn is not enough would be good synergy with mastermind
I'm pretty sure they changed this with the last rules update so you can no longer do this. Azusa basically lets you play up to 3 land a turn. If you play 3 land, bounce her and replay her you can't play more land because you've already played 3. Exploration, Oracle of Mul Daya, etc. all work like this now.
I'm pretty sure they changed this with the last rules update so you can no longer do this. Azusa basically lets you play up to 3 land a turn. If you play 3 land, bounce her and replay her you can't play more land because you've already played 3. Exploration, Oracle of Mul Daya, etc. all work like this now.
Rules Adviser Donald, you are technically correct. THE best kind of correct.
I recall that rules change as well.
Is Noble Hierarch any good for the deck? Or do you already have enough 1-drop mana dorks?
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Rules Adviser Donald, you are technically correct. THE best kind of correct.
I recall that rules change as well.
Is Noble Hierarch any good for the deck? Or do you already have enough 1-drop mana dorks?
Hmm hard to say haven't tested it enough yet to answer that. I'd put this with ponder in the I should probly run it but I don't want to until I know where my weakest cards are. I have not liked coalition relic much but my artifact count is already lower than I like it. And if I cut witness garruk I think is my only GG cost card. So it take for like U/W which is still pretty good and probly better than relic in most cases at cmc 1. I was already tempted to just exe relic for lotus Cobra who is sick nasty with my Azusa package in 10 fetch but I don't know I kinda want to fund a better mana rock for this slot I'm not sure There is one. I need more raw testing to check my proportions but they feel .. Ok
I didn't check before you mentioned this to see if you were running them already but I can recommend Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond very highly. These are both incredible cards to have in decks looking to win fast. They cost zero, fix your mana (well one does), dodge Worb and you just make up the card disadvantage with draw 7s, which they happen to be awesome with. Chrome Mox even takes up a land slot so it's basically a free add if you can find a land to remove and I think Mox Diamond is far superior to Coalition Relic, especially with all the land synergies you have here.
Both good selections I really like Mox diamond it's been good everywhere I use it. Thats just the card I was forgetting so for sure ill edit op at home
- coalition relic
+ Mox Diamond
Now chrome Mox I've used in ad naususm and TES in legacy but I'm less experienced with I don't like it as much here in 5 color but I trust your judgement I'll test it over a land tonite prObaly my basic mountain
haha. i own one though and there like 40 bucks now. I actauly just played 2 games where she was very useful one i was in top deck mode with collective restraint kismet and a thran dynamo with muse and nothing i like drew nothing but land the entire game then i top deck garruk and do some old school face beating lol. Another game i just plopped her down holding a few lands with loam and just did a turn 4 geddon with just a BoP a lantern and queen and she got there. 3 swings at the guy not missing lands drops dead.
In other news Mox diamond loves me i always draw it and its always amazing i guess that's the perk of being moxnix..
Chrome Mox has been mulled away and seemed not so awesome but i didn't miss my basic mountain at all the one game i kept it i used it as my only white source for kismet binning a swords to plowshares . i still won but that would have been a really nice swords to plowshares a few turns in. put thinking about the hand like always if that mox had been a land i would have been better off but i also didn't have a turn 1 play and ponder would have got me a land for this hand and the gas in another so.
Btw Mox Diamond is MORE than excellent here its stupidly good in this list so far good catch.
Changes felt good played some good games I finally lost a game with the deck it was a 2v2 2HG commander game my ally played black cat as his only relivant card of the game and I was wheeling so he was literally useless. I locked the game down with static orb and collective restraint with no help on his end and no way for me to abuse m orb as they kept spot removing my cards anyway I toss out pernicious deed for the second time in the game ( time spiral) I had 4 open mana and I could have ate the opposing oracle of Muldaya or just pop it for 3 clear most of the tapped dudes so I could repulse my board off yawgwin and play the seedborn muse I had imperial sealed to my top deck. Well in response to me binning My deed at 3 my collective restraint gets natures claimed :(. At this point I can either repop my collective restraint or play clock of omens to unlock my ally who has been griping about my strategy when his best card I saw were like .. Mindrot? Anyway instead of playing the restraint I play clock this cost me the game. I tapped down my orb .... He conceedes unlocks a player on 14 lands had I played restraint they were locked and I had kismet with stasis in hand to full lock them for 7/8 turns of blue mana top decking but I finally lost ;(. I wish more of the pillow fort cards were like sphere of saftey in that the protect plains walkers. If restraint had said or plansewalker you control this game would have been a blowout. Don't know if u want more pillow fort but collective restraint has been getting it done.
Sidenote this deck really wishes upheaval wasn't banned lol.
Changes felt good played some good games I finally lost a game with the deck it was a 2v2 2HG commander game my ally played black cat as his only relivant card of the game and I was wheeling so he was literally useless. I locked the game down with static orb and collective restraint with no help on his end and no way for me to abuse m orb as they kept spot removing my cards anyway I toss out pernicious deed for the second time in the game ( time spiral) I had 4 open mana and I could have ate the opposing oracle of Muldaya or just pop it for 3 clear most of the tapped dudes so I could repulse my board off yawgwin and play the seedborn muse I had imperial sealed to my top deck. Well in response to me binning My deed at 3 my collective restraint gets natures claimed :(. At this point I can either repop my collective restraint or play clock of omens to unlock my ally who has been griping about my strategy when his best card I saw were like .. Mindrot? Anyway instead of playing the restraint I play clock this cost me the game. I tapped down my orb .... He conceedes unlocks a player on 14 lands had I played restraint they were locked and I had kismet with stasis in hand to full lock them for 7/8 turns of blue mana top decking but I finally lost ;(. I wish more of the pillow fort cards were like sphere of saftey in that the protect plains walkers. If restraint had said or plansewalker you control this game would have been a blowout. Don't know if u want more pillow fort but collective restraint has been getting it done.
Sidenote this deck really wishes upheaval wasn't banned lol.
If I didn't hate 2HG I'd offter to team up with you. Pretty sure 2 Stasis decks would cause much rage and we'd never lose.:D
Anyways on protecting planeswalkers there isn't much I can think of. Arboria doesn't work, you draw too many cards for Ensnaring Bridge…maybe Storage Matrix? That might not be too bad in here to begin with. Storage Matrix + Winter Orb is pretty funny. Yeah I'm definitely adding that when I get home.
EDIT: Constant Mists. That protects planeswalkers like a champ.
Lock the board out so your the only one playing magic. Profit
1 Command Tower
2 Dryad arbor
3 Wasteland
4 Strip Mine
5 Hallowed Foutain
6 Tundra
7 Pulluted Delta
8 Underground Sea
9 Badlands
10 Volrath's Stronghold
11 Bloodstained Mire
12 Forsaken City
13 Taiga
14 Wooded Foothills
15 Savannah
16 Scubland
17 Bayou
18 Overgrown Tomb
19 Verdant Catacombs
20 Breeding Pool
21 Misty Rainforest
22 Tropical Island
23 Scalding Tarn
24 Steam Vents
25 Volcanic Island
26 Arid Mesa
27 Swamp
28 Island
29 Forest
30 Acdemey ruins
31 Kor Haven
32 Volraths Stronghold
33 Watery Grave
34 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
36 Mana crypt
37 Mana Vault
38 Sol ring
39 Vampiric Tutor
40 Imperial Seal
41 Preordain
42 Brainstorm
43 Vandalblast
44 Chain of Vapor
45 Nature’s Claim
46 Swords to Plowshares
47 Wordly Tutor
48 Mystical tutor
49 Sensei’s diving Top
50 Birds of Paradise
51 Goblin Welder
52 Exploration
53 Enlightend Tutor
54 Green Sun's Zenith
55 Ponder
Two Drops
56 Grim Monolith
57 Winter Orb
58 Demonic tutor
59 Regrowth
60 Abrupt Decay
61 Cyclonic rift
62 Slyvan Library
63 Stasis
64 Vedalken Mastermind
65 Ancient Grudge
Three Drops
66 Yawgmoth's Will
67 Fabricate
68 Chromatic Lantern
69 Crucible of Worlds
70 Tangle Wire
71 Grimm Tutor
72 Wheel of Fortune
73 Windfall
74 Pernicious Deed
75 Capsize
76 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
77 Timetwister
78 Intuition
79 Phyrexian Metamorph
80 Notion Thief
81 Kismet
82 Ral Zarek
83 Garruk Wildspeaker
84 Thran dynamo
85 Armageddon
86 Collective Restraint
87 Frozen Aether
88 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
89 Oracle of Mul Daya
Five Drops
90 Evacuation
91 Prophit of Kruphix
92 Gilded Lotus
93 Sunder
94 Tezzeret the Seeker
95 Seedborn Muse
96 Memory jar
97 Futuresight
Six Drops
98 Recurring Insight
99 Time Spiral
The General
100 Sliver Queen
gameplay video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdmItX75RpE&feature=youtu.be
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Lim duls vault
Blood crypt
Ponder
In
Sun Titan
Claws of Gix
Volraths Stronghold
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I did not really think about intuition piles as I'm
Pretty good at making them on the fly with an actual board state and cards in hand. After playing DD and intuition inane decks I'm fairly confident in piling. I pulled intuition in both games and it won me one and was great in both I used it "politically" both times no special life from
Loam piles yet. I lost the first game prett much to bitter blossom
And mama crypt which I quickly cut for life gift. The second game I won I also came very close to killing myself and almost lost becuase I had used cyclonic rift it got exiled and I didn't have another wrath I added deeds and verdict after that game. So far the decks felt very strong the only one kiling me was myself I've tried to fix this ... If I had life gift the second game I think I played / fetched through 30 lands by myself. Anyway cuts I'm having problems with. is sylvan library worth it here damage is much more relivant than I am used too.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I'm kind of interested at how this deck plays out as Lockdown and Stax are a little at odds with one another. Nobody should care about sac'ing tapped lands to Braids if you have a Worb in play for example since the land isn't going to untap anyways.
For cuts I'd say ditch Lifegift. It does nothing other than gain life and if your deck can't win with 40 life adding in lifegain probably isn't the solution.
How does
- stomping grounds
- braids cabal minion
- life gift
- Smokestack
+ garruck wild Speaker
+ unwinding clock
+ Consecrated Sphinx
+ Forsaken city
I should not have forgotten city it's played in most classic stasis decks on modo. Thanks for input more please! Despite typically only liking fast storm style Combo decks this deck has me hooked playing 30 turns and almost losing when your up 25 mana sources is funny.
Edit: need a slot for fabricate forgot that one looking for help with more ideas on cuts what looks weakest here?
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
What about the Pickles lock? (Vesuvan Shapeshifter + Brine Elemental)
Yosei, the Morning Star might be a bit underwhelming for multi player, but recurring him in 1v1 brings a lot of butt-hurt.
If silly bordering on stupidity is your thing, my I suggest:
Mycosynth Latice + Null Rod
Mycosynth Latice + Kill Switch + Voltaic Key / Unwinding Clock / Clock of Omens
(for the activated untap effects, you activate them and respond with kill switch to leave yourself able to untap it just before you do)
I doubt it's worth mentioning but proliferating Tangle Wire sound pretty obnoxious, not that that's easy to do early game.
PS, You are an evil man with an evil mind that has produced an evil deck. I APPROVE!
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
EDIT: op updated
- Lifegift
-SmokeStack
- Braids cabal minon
- stomping Ground
- Claws of Gix
- Faiths Reward
- SkullClamp
- Bitterblossom
+ Forsaken City
+ Garruk Wildspeaker
+ Clock of Omens ( i said the wrong card earlier)
+ Consecrated Sphinx
+ Kismet
+ Yawgmoth's Will
+ Green Sun's Zenith
+ Fabricate
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=530735&highlight=vorel
I was hoping we could brainstorm together as I'm pretty new to the prison archetype in EDH myself. So far I've been very happy with how it's been running after I ironed out some of the difficulties I was having. As you'll notice aside from Tangle Wire and some cards I already own it's a fairly budget build though I'm interested in working on a paper list which would have no budget restrictions.
The changes you made look great and gives your deck some more focus. Hopefully they'll play out well for you. Recently I added in Simic Growth Chamber and the land has been simply amazing with Orbs and Garruk Wildspeaker. I'm not sure what the best option would be for you for lands that tap for more than 1 mana. Dimir Aqueducts might be OK even though it produces only 2 colors but you don't want to waste tutors on it and Crop Rotation isn't very good in your deck so it may not be worth the effort. Another card I was thinking of was Utopia Sprawl to create a similar effect. It also gives you better fixing and is not a bad ramp card on turn 1. Maybe try it over BoP?
Cursed Totem should also be seriously considered as it shuts off many generals and creature based combos.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Volrath's Stronghold:
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Phyrexian Tower
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
How long does it normally take you to get a lock? I take it that this is not a friend-maker. Kinda like my Karona list.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
@ Donald I like the idea of a bounce land or 2 in that they are pretty good with Azusa and winter orb my decks currently 29U 18G 9B 9W 3R so i could cut another red source for a Simic growth chamber but other than that tap lands are not something i like very much at all. I will give one a test run and see how I feel ,However im not sold I had planned on thinning 1-2 more red sources for utility lands that I felt would be good after more testing. I have also been eyeballing a few red cards so I may want the sources. There is one card which name currently escapes me that’s like a tap all land kismet but it hits you too :/ not brave enough for that just yet. Dryad arbor is an interesting card with GSZ in the deck. Taping for only 1 color and not being fetchable dying to wrath and just in general being not the land you want too see in your hand but using GSZ at 2 instead still ramps us one which i will harp right now
Added in the middle forgot to mention BoP vs Sprawl . Bop is better here it doesn’t get worbed at all is a good backup GSZ target in a tight hand on mana and sprawl only targets forests this is not a problem as im fetching one for the birds anyway right but lets be real im in five colors choosing a color < any color.
Aside- I want to fit back in ponder the thought of cutting Eternal witness was my first having just added yawgwin and not caring as much about cute interactions or having a better tutor target with 2 of my tutors 1/10 times that im not getting muse or azusa. Much like dryad arbor I don’t want to see it in my hand especially when I should be using the tutor to get the azusa for crucible fun or wheeling / insight. Its been fairly easy to just get crucible Azusa strip one of my favorite old combos and just hit the lands they untap with Worb or just pop Armageddon or sunder and strip lock them out after puking lands as needed. So the purpose of the creature tutors is pretty clear whats not clear now is what im ADDING for the witness. Now I know I said I want ponder back in which I do! But the reason its such an easy cut in the testing phase despite being very important to deck flow is that it doesn’t have many interactions here so I want to test more cards instead. Segway!
On to your list. One card in particular really caught my eye! As she always has …..
Tamiyo, the moon Sage- Man I always want this card to be good but it never is. However im normally playing pure streamlined combo and now im not ! So far garruk and jace and tezz have all been amazing when I get them down. Tamiyo really seems to fit the bill and I ripped one in like my third pack of the set and it’s never last in one of my decks more than a few appearances. How has she been tell me this is her one true home ponder can take a break preordain and brainstorm do truly feel much better here especially when I play a very high tutor density in 5 colors (and pretend the word draw on a cmc1 card doesn’t make most of these better). The tap seems stupidly strong and I would love nothing more than to perma stasis lock a table with an active tamiyo and a never ending chain of vapor from hell. My concern is shes 5 mana which is a lot tezzeret is an exception with his untap abilty but its hard to tap out to her in a worb lock or a stasis lock and being that 1 turn slower may make her harder to keep around luckily this “fog” gets to pump and tap down threats or mana so she can toughen up and I think effects like this “fog” are naturally taking care of the life loss issue I had (that and cutting the life loss cards XD)
@ Jakalova I would have to dilute my deck to make him work I already have enough tutors to find answers I see him as more of a liability than an asset as I can’t just mindlessly drop him like I can queen right before I go to lock a board or a simple putrefy or GFTT and I just blew myself out that’s not a threat I can ride to victory in a lock it’s problem unless I make some changes which I really don’t want too. Queen can swing hard and make blockers in a pinch she’s not amazing but compared to the other generals I think she’s best even with cutting my sac stax type cards. Though I have cast her just once as you won’t need your general think of my general as seedborn muse or Azusa I just get to play 5 colors. Cursed totem is a fine card in the right meta but I don’t think I need it it doesn’t really go with my plan the more focused I get the better my results.
@ omega – Very good post I thanks for leaving it there but I don’t think ill be playing the big baby. As far as how long it takes to lock well im not sure. I have blown everyone out of the game with Azusa on turn 4 I have locked a table with tangle wire my first game starting t3 and I bounced it and played static orb behind it. Other games I have dropped collective restraint frozen ather slow rolled some plains walkers and waited for a tap down to finally tutor up my stasis with a mastermind sitting there in play looking all innocent for multiple turns. Then one guy goes “I guess you waiting for us to concede to win as he sees stasis” me “silence” bounce stasis tutor aszua drop stasis next round bounce stasis pop recurring insight for 7 find strip mine. So I guess I do win by concession most games but despite this deck having slow grindy games if you don’t watch your back it will just blow you out. So no its not a friend maker. And yes your karona lock is cool
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
She's been really good the few times I've seen her but I'm still not 100% on her. The card draw was really lackluster but the tap ability is fantastic at stopping big beaters and locking down their board but I think Jace would fill that roll better since you just bounce them then lock their land. But really there aren't very many walkers that aren't good on a board that's been slowed to a glacial crawl. I still haven't been able to cheese people with Doubling Season yet so maybe my opinion will go up if that happens.
Well i played the list in the op 3 times in multi and 1 dual all wins and conceedes around turn 6 3 of the games the 1v1 i got lucky poping a time spiral hitting cylonic + a full lock for the follow up turn when i was dead on board. he replayed most of his hand (elves) i had so much mana and double walkers from crucible engine off tezz that my follow up turn was like gilded lotus into thran into azusa into 4 stripmines into Deed for 3 with muse in hand and a fabricate to get orb.
The redundancy of kismet has been awesome the effect is just stupidly good here. I remember some cmc 4 elephant thing that i think does something similar might look into that
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Loxodon Gatekeeper is the name of the elephant.
Ral Zarek does look like he could be really good here as a mini Garruk or land tapper.
The more I think he's just what I wanted. Awesome suggestion I'm
Gonna pick up a digital and paper copy ASAP. Side note can i bounce and replay Azusa to get more land drops? I'm thinking yes but I'm not sure want to know becuase sometimes 3 strips a turn is not enough would be good synergy with mastermind
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I'm pretty sure they changed this with the last rules update so you can no longer do this. Azusa basically lets you play up to 3 land a turn. If you play 3 land, bounce her and replay her you can't play more land because you've already played 3. Exploration, Oracle of Mul Daya, etc. all work like this now.
Rules Adviser Donald, you are technically correct. THE best kind of correct.
I recall that rules change as well.
Is Noble Hierarch any good for the deck? Or do you already have enough 1-drop mana dorks?
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Hmm hard to say haven't tested it enough yet to answer that. I'd put this with ponder in the I should probly run it but I don't want to until I know where my weakest cards are. I have not liked coalition relic much but my artifact count is already lower than I like it. And if I cut witness garruk I think is my only GG cost card. So it take for like U/W which is still pretty good and probly better than relic in most cases at cmc 1. I was already tempted to just exe relic for lotus Cobra who is sick nasty with my Azusa package in 10 fetch but I don't know I kinda want to fund a better mana rock for this slot I'm not sure There is one. I need more raw testing to check my proportions but they feel .. Ok
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
- coalition relic
+ Mox Diamond
Now chrome Mox I've used in ad naususm and TES in legacy but I'm less experienced with I don't like it as much here in 5 color but I trust your judgement I'll test it over a land tonite prObaly my basic mountain
Edit : now find my weakest card for ponders slot
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
That's easy, it's Sliver Queen :P.
haha. i own one though and there like 40 bucks now. I actauly just played 2 games where she was very useful one i was in top deck mode with collective restraint kismet and a thran dynamo with muse and nothing i like drew nothing but land the entire game then i top deck garruk and do some old school face beating lol. Another game i just plopped her down holding a few lands with loam and just did a turn 4 geddon with just a BoP a lantern and queen and she got there. 3 swings at the guy not missing lands drops dead.
In other news Mox diamond loves me i always draw it and its always amazing i guess that's the perk of being moxnix..
Chrome Mox has been mulled away and seemed not so awesome but i didn't miss my basic mountain at all the one game i kept it i used it as my only white source for kismet binning a swords to plowshares . i still won but that would have been a really nice swords to plowshares a few turns in. put thinking about the hand like always if that mox had been a land i would have been better off but i also didn't have a turn 1 play and ponder would have got me a land for this hand and the gas in another so.
Btw Mox Diamond is MORE than excellent here its stupidly good in this list so far good catch.
- Mountain / Chrome mox slot
+ Ponder
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Sidenote this deck really wishes upheaval wasn't banned lol.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
If I didn't hate 2HG I'd offter to team up with you. Pretty sure 2 Stasis decks would cause much rage and we'd never lose.:D
Anyways on protecting planeswalkers there isn't much I can think of. Arboria doesn't work, you draw too many cards for Ensnaring Bridge…maybe Storage Matrix? That might not be too bad in here to begin with. Storage Matrix + Winter Orb is pretty funny. Yeah I'm definitely adding that when I get home.
EDIT: Constant Mists. That protects planeswalkers like a champ.