Skittles can receive a lot of hate at the multiplayer table. As such, I wanted the deck to be able to function even without him. I think the deck doesn't necessarily need Skittles but he certainly makes it better. With the equipment package and the ramp, ideally he only needs 2 hits (or less) to kill someone.
There is also some stuff in the deck to make sure that Skittles can get through, along with some defensive stuff when you receive the the inevitable backlash. There initially was more of a proliferate theme but I found it clunky and cut most of it. Even the proliferate stuff that's still in the deck can be taken out. (I would replace Spread the Sickness with Hero's Downfall if you have it. I just haven't been able to get one yet.) The infect stuff in the deck did well though.
I admit I got a little greedy with the mana base. There's a lot of stuff that depends on Swamps and only 21 Swamps. I make up for this with Liliana, Journeyer's Kite, Armillary Sphere, etc. I also didn't really look at how Skittles decks are typically made so this may not be the usual way to build one. But it worked out for me.
Have you looked at Rishana's skittles build? Probably the most tuned skittles build I've seen.
I just looked it up. That list is a lot more aggro than this one. My guess is with the amount of Swords and tutors it probably does really well. But I didn't want to be that aggro. Still, it's a good, more cut throat version focused pretty much completely on Skithiryx.
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On the one hand, it sucks to have no outs. But on the other hand, if Skittles is in your game plan at all, the earlier and faster, the better. Then once your deck is good enough at its plan, you can start to focus on people not being able to mess with your plan. I mean, you build a deck to avoid losing as much as possible, but building a deck in a way just so you never have to be drawing dead isn't the same. Because any secondary plan is going to be much worse than the primary plan of other decks at the table like BUG. People don't mind losing, but it seems that they really hate waiting. Building a deck with a secondary plan just because seems like you just don't want to be caught in a spot where the deck got answered and you're drawing thin. There are merits to both, I suppose.
With this deck I really just wanted to make something that I was comfortable playing. Like I said, playing Skithiryx and using infect are pretty far outside my comfort zone. Of coure, I want to win, so I had to make the deck competitive. But I also wasn't looking to make a soul crushing monster that consistently curb stomped my opponents. That would just leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather have people say "that was a fun game" than be annoyed that they got infected out on turn 5. So that was really my main priority when making the deck. Could it be more cut throat? Sure. But I wasn't really going for that.
I mean, obviously I want to make a decent deck that can win. When I publish these things I don't want to say "this deck blows, I wouldn't play it." But on the other hand I only spend about a week or two on each deck before I move on to the next one so I don't expect them to be perfect. If I wanted I'm sure I could stick with one deck and turn it into a finely tuned killing machine. There are plenty of people out there who have their one deck, be it Momir or Azusa or Grand Arbiter or whatever, and just continuously tune it to make it good. And some of these people read my stuff. So I want to make sure that the deck is at least up to snuff in that it can go online and win games.
For me this means flexibility too. Depending on my opening hand and my first draw or two I can decide if I want to rush Skithiryx out there or sit back and let the game develop. I also want to be able to take my opponents into consideration. Am I going up against Zur and Maelstrom Wanderer? Or against Raksha and Seshiro? And I can tailor my game plan accordingly.
After making the deck competitive, I also want to include cards that are fun or that I don't use often. I've made a ton of decks, but I've never used Endless Scream, or Lashwrithe, or Skeletal Scrying, or even Diabolic Revelation before. If I can fit a few of those kind of cards in a deck, ones that are goofy or that I've never played before, then I'm happy.
Honestly that Rishana build is likely the best version of a Skithiryx deck you can make basically because it has card draw and a ton of tutors. Even if Skithiryx gets tucked, you'll eventually draw into a tutor, get Skithiryx back and suited up with another Sword and get back to stomping. Admittedly I have 3 tutors in my version, but any more and it would just feel too tutor heavy for my tastes. So that's just another personal preference. Nothing wrong with using more tutors though, or using Rishana's build as a basis of a deck over mine. Whatever you're comfortable doing.
I guess it also depends on your meta. I play solely online. If your meta is full on combo, then you need to have Skittles be super aggro so you can beat them to the punch. Online there's much more variety so I didn't have to be nearly as fast.
So focusing on Skittles is kind of up to you.
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Well to be fair, Rishana's deck isn't exactly "all-in" on Skittles either. It uses creatures like Grave Titan, Precursor Golem and Ulamog, ostensibly with the ability to get Tainted Strike, but still mostly to draw removal.
Along those lines, I do like your Ascendant Evincar quite a bit better than just fat, since it works well with Skittles. I also think that removal is necessary for creature-based decks, which is why I like to see O-stone in here. I also can't see how people can play with no other Infect creatures, so I really like the added value ones like Plague Myr. I think those are things that your deck got right.
Other decks have more tutors, sure, but I honestly am not going to post a list anywhere with a card like Imperial Seal in it, regardless of whether I have the card myself. And otherwise if the line is to tutor for mana, all the tutors that it makes sense to use on Sol Ring you've got, so I've got no issues there (Praetor's Grasp is clutch). The only thing I really miss out of that package is Dark Ritual and its creature clones, maybe Bubbling Muck as well. Turn 4 Skittles is just really good in a lot of games.
And to be really forthright, I don't see discard like Mind Twist in either yours or Rishana's, so potentially there are still other ways to do Skittles.
I loved your videos and I think your deck would be really fun to play on MODO.
Along those lines, I do like your Ascendant Evincar quite a bit better than just fat, since it works well with Skittles.
Evincar just seemed like a good idea. Pumps Skittles, shrinks opponents' dudes, kills off small tokens. He actually helped me more than once. For a while I considered running Bad Moon because it comes out so fast, but I didn't think I was running enough Black creatures to take full advantage of it. Still, it's worth considering.
I also can't see how people can play with no other Infect creatures, so I really like the added value ones like Plague Myr.
Plague Myr seems almost like an auto-include for me. Helps you ramp, and if you get a piece of equipment on him like Nightmare Lash all of a sudden he's a serious threat. Combine with Rogue's Passage or Dauthi Embrace for extra fun. Phyrexian Crusader was well worth it as well. The two protection abilities built in helped me out a ton.
The only other infect creature I considered was Hand of the Praetors. I liked the pump but I wasn't running that many infect dudes so he didn't make the cut.
The only thing I really miss out of that package is Dark Ritual and its creature clones, maybe Bubbling Muck as well.
Which creature clones are you talking about?
I'm not a huge fan of one shot mana development in this format. Sure, drawing a late game Charcoal Diamond and Dark Ritual are equivalent, but I appreciate the permanent source more. Of course if you're really focused on rushing Skithiryx out there I could see how they could be good.
And to be really forthright, I don't see discard like Mind Twist in either yours or Rishana's, so potentially there are still other ways to do Skittles.
Mind Twist could definitely be in the list. If I'm being honest with myself Imp's Mischief is an underperfomer. For the 1 time that I was able to control someone's Putrefy, there were plenty more times where someone cast Condemn and I couldn't do anything. I could easily see the Mischief coming out for the Twist because Twist can be so devastating.
The only other discard I would likely consider would be Mind Shatter and Persecute. Mind Shatter has the same "random" word in it which makes it almost as good as Mind Twist, and Persecute can really do a number on mono-colored decks.
Personally I would have a really hard time including Thoughtseize and Duress type of discard but that's really just my own bias talking. Yes, you can target the Blue or White player to take a look at their hand before unleashing Skittles. It just seems so, I dunno, inefficient to me. Again, this is my own personal bias speaking.
Undercity Plague would be cool though, just because it's something different.
When I said "creature clones" for Dark Rit, I mean Basal Thrull and Soldevi Adnate, and there are also the 3cmc's like Basal Sliver. Not strictly the same thing in effect, but each one does give you a Turn 4 Skittles with Haste on their own when they show up in the opener. One shot mana effects are good if you consider them just in terms of how much mana they stand to give you versus a land. Your first land certainly outperforms Dark Rit, but the land you play the turn before you die, or are effectively out of the game, gives one mana. Dark Ritual just has to be better than that for you to cut a land for it and miss that last drop. And that's not taking into account either the benefits of earlier mana. In Skittles, 2 points of early mana is 2 more turns of Skittles attacks, at least 8 poison, probably more.
On Thoughtseize and Duress, yeah, they're usually inefficient. But say you take one game and sneak a peek at the holding of each opponent. What you'll find a lot of the time is a few ramp spells, draw spells, maybe one or two creatures like Thada Adel or Acidic Slime, and a bomb or two. Then you might see that one answer card like Condemn or Hinder. In control or value-oriented decks, all the cards are more or less equal value against you. But in aggro there's the majority of cards that you just care nothing about, and then that one single card that absolutely soul crushes you. Point discard used well finds that card. Once it does, value doesn't matter very much because you're just going to kill the most controlling player and then run the table with one creature.
I like Mind Shatter and Persecute as well, but also Noxious Vapors and Mindslicer have each performed solidly for me.
One other Infect creature that I like is Whispering Specter. If he comes down before Skittles, then you're usually putting a player at 5 or 6 poison. It gives you the option of just taking out that player's hand instead of having to attack him next turn for the kill, and you can go on to attack someone else for effect. The evasion is also nice for getting there. Really though, I'd take anything with evasion, like Plague Stinger. Skittles is just a couple points short of a 2 turn clock himself so even a little bit helps, sort of like equips, but unlike equips you've got situations where an opponent has just a single flying blocker, and you can spread your equips or use effects like Hatred in such a way that they can't survive both.
I hadn't thought about the Basal creatures at all and completely forgot about Soldevi Adnate, holy cow that's a blast from the past that can act as a nice sac outlet as well. Yeah, those don't really fit into this build I think.
And Noxious Vapors is a card I'd never even seen before so that's good to know about.
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1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Creatures (19)
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Bone Shredder
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dark Impostor
1 Dread
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Leaden Myr
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Palladium Myr
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Plague Myr
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Withered Wretch
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Artifacts (21)
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Bonehoard
1 Caged Sun
1 Champion's Helm
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Crawlspace
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Jet Medallion
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Lashwrithe
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mind Stone
1 Nightmare Lash
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 O-Naginata
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sol Ring
1 Spine of Ish sah
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Dauthi Embrace
1 Endless Scream
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Underworld Connections
Instants (7)
1 Go for the Throat
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Tainted Strike
1 Vampiric Tutor
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Karn Liberated
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Sorceries (9)
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Revelation
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Profane Command
1 Promise of Power
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Sign in Blood
1 Spread the Sickness
Lands (37)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Deserted Temple
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Maze of Ith
1 Petrified Field
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
21 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Skittles can receive a lot of hate at the multiplayer table. As such, I wanted the deck to be able to function even without him. I think the deck doesn't necessarily need Skittles but he certainly makes it better. With the equipment package and the ramp, ideally he only needs 2 hits (or less) to kill someone.
There is also some stuff in the deck to make sure that Skittles can get through, along with some defensive stuff when you receive the the inevitable backlash. There initially was more of a proliferate theme but I found it clunky and cut most of it. Even the proliferate stuff that's still in the deck can be taken out. (I would replace Spread the Sickness with Hero's Downfall if you have it. I just haven't been able to get one yet.) The infect stuff in the deck did well though.
I admit I got a little greedy with the mana base. There's a lot of stuff that depends on Swamps and only 21 Swamps. I make up for this with Liliana, Journeyer's Kite, Armillary Sphere, etc. I also didn't really look at how Skittles decks are typically made so this may not be the usual way to build one. But it worked out for me.
So how does it play? Check it out here: http://puremtgo.com/articles/conqueror-commander-vol-cxxv-skithiryx-blight-dragon I also go into more detail about the deck and card choices.
Questions, comments, concerns, let me know!
Most recently looking at Morinfen!
I just looked it up. That list is a lot more aggro than this one. My guess is with the amount of Swords and tutors it probably does really well. But I didn't want to be that aggro. Still, it's a good, more cut throat version focused pretty much completely on Skithiryx.
Most recently looking at Morinfen!
On the one hand, it sucks to have no outs. But on the other hand, if Skittles is in your game plan at all, the earlier and faster, the better. Then once your deck is good enough at its plan, you can start to focus on people not being able to mess with your plan. I mean, you build a deck to avoid losing as much as possible, but building a deck in a way just so you never have to be drawing dead isn't the same. Because any secondary plan is going to be much worse than the primary plan of other decks at the table like BUG. People don't mind losing, but it seems that they really hate waiting. Building a deck with a secondary plan just because seems like you just don't want to be caught in a spot where the deck got answered and you're drawing thin. There are merits to both, I suppose.
I mean, obviously I want to make a decent deck that can win. When I publish these things I don't want to say "this deck blows, I wouldn't play it." But on the other hand I only spend about a week or two on each deck before I move on to the next one so I don't expect them to be perfect. If I wanted I'm sure I could stick with one deck and turn it into a finely tuned killing machine. There are plenty of people out there who have their one deck, be it Momir or Azusa or Grand Arbiter or whatever, and just continuously tune it to make it good. And some of these people read my stuff. So I want to make sure that the deck is at least up to snuff in that it can go online and win games.
For me this means flexibility too. Depending on my opening hand and my first draw or two I can decide if I want to rush Skithiryx out there or sit back and let the game develop. I also want to be able to take my opponents into consideration. Am I going up against Zur and Maelstrom Wanderer? Or against Raksha and Seshiro? And I can tailor my game plan accordingly.
After making the deck competitive, I also want to include cards that are fun or that I don't use often. I've made a ton of decks, but I've never used Endless Scream, or Lashwrithe, or Skeletal Scrying, or even Diabolic Revelation before. If I can fit a few of those kind of cards in a deck, ones that are goofy or that I've never played before, then I'm happy.
Honestly that Rishana build is likely the best version of a Skithiryx deck you can make basically because it has card draw and a ton of tutors. Even if Skithiryx gets tucked, you'll eventually draw into a tutor, get Skithiryx back and suited up with another Sword and get back to stomping. Admittedly I have 3 tutors in my version, but any more and it would just feel too tutor heavy for my tastes. So that's just another personal preference. Nothing wrong with using more tutors though, or using Rishana's build as a basis of a deck over mine. Whatever you're comfortable doing.
I guess it also depends on your meta. I play solely online. If your meta is full on combo, then you need to have Skittles be super aggro so you can beat them to the punch. Online there's much more variety so I didn't have to be nearly as fast.
So focusing on Skittles is kind of up to you.
Most recently looking at Morinfen!
Along those lines, I do like your Ascendant Evincar quite a bit better than just fat, since it works well with Skittles. I also think that removal is necessary for creature-based decks, which is why I like to see O-stone in here. I also can't see how people can play with no other Infect creatures, so I really like the added value ones like Plague Myr. I think those are things that your deck got right.
Other decks have more tutors, sure, but I honestly am not going to post a list anywhere with a card like Imperial Seal in it, regardless of whether I have the card myself. And otherwise if the line is to tutor for mana, all the tutors that it makes sense to use on Sol Ring you've got, so I've got no issues there (Praetor's Grasp is clutch). The only thing I really miss out of that package is Dark Ritual and its creature clones, maybe Bubbling Muck as well. Turn 4 Skittles is just really good in a lot of games.
And to be really forthright, I don't see discard like Mind Twist in either yours or Rishana's, so potentially there are still other ways to do Skittles.
I loved your videos and I think your deck would be really fun to play on MODO.
Evincar just seemed like a good idea. Pumps Skittles, shrinks opponents' dudes, kills off small tokens. He actually helped me more than once. For a while I considered running Bad Moon because it comes out so fast, but I didn't think I was running enough Black creatures to take full advantage of it. Still, it's worth considering.
Plague Myr seems almost like an auto-include for me. Helps you ramp, and if you get a piece of equipment on him like Nightmare Lash all of a sudden he's a serious threat. Combine with Rogue's Passage or Dauthi Embrace for extra fun. Phyrexian Crusader was well worth it as well. The two protection abilities built in helped me out a ton.
The only other infect creature I considered was Hand of the Praetors. I liked the pump but I wasn't running that many infect dudes so he didn't make the cut.
Which creature clones are you talking about?
I'm not a huge fan of one shot mana development in this format. Sure, drawing a late game Charcoal Diamond and Dark Ritual are equivalent, but I appreciate the permanent source more. Of course if you're really focused on rushing Skithiryx out there I could see how they could be good.
Mind Twist could definitely be in the list. If I'm being honest with myself Imp's Mischief is an underperfomer. For the 1 time that I was able to control someone's Putrefy, there were plenty more times where someone cast Condemn and I couldn't do anything. I could easily see the Mischief coming out for the Twist because Twist can be so devastating.
The only other discard I would likely consider would be Mind Shatter and Persecute. Mind Shatter has the same "random" word in it which makes it almost as good as Mind Twist, and Persecute can really do a number on mono-colored decks.
Personally I would have a really hard time including Thoughtseize and Duress type of discard but that's really just my own bias talking. Yes, you can target the Blue or White player to take a look at their hand before unleashing Skittles. It just seems so, I dunno, inefficient to me. Again, this is my own personal bias speaking.
Undercity Plague would be cool though, just because it's something different.
Thanks man, I appreciate it!
Most recently looking at Morinfen!
On Thoughtseize and Duress, yeah, they're usually inefficient. But say you take one game and sneak a peek at the holding of each opponent. What you'll find a lot of the time is a few ramp spells, draw spells, maybe one or two creatures like Thada Adel or Acidic Slime, and a bomb or two. Then you might see that one answer card like Condemn or Hinder. In control or value-oriented decks, all the cards are more or less equal value against you. But in aggro there's the majority of cards that you just care nothing about, and then that one single card that absolutely soul crushes you. Point discard used well finds that card. Once it does, value doesn't matter very much because you're just going to kill the most controlling player and then run the table with one creature.
I like Mind Shatter and Persecute as well, but also Noxious Vapors and Mindslicer have each performed solidly for me.
One other Infect creature that I like is Whispering Specter. If he comes down before Skittles, then you're usually putting a player at 5 or 6 poison. It gives you the option of just taking out that player's hand instead of having to attack him next turn for the kill, and you can go on to attack someone else for effect. The evasion is also nice for getting there. Really though, I'd take anything with evasion, like Plague Stinger. Skittles is just a couple points short of a 2 turn clock himself so even a little bit helps, sort of like equips, but unlike equips you've got situations where an opponent has just a single flying blocker, and you can spread your equips or use effects like Hatred in such a way that they can't survive both.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=549281
Hopefully there a few tidbits of good advice in there. Happy Hunting!
I hadn't thought about the Basal creatures at all and completely forgot about Soldevi Adnate, holy cow that's a blast from the past that can act as a nice sac outlet as well. Yeah, those don't really fit into this build I think.
And Noxious Vapors is a card I'd never even seen before so that's good to know about.
Most recently looking at Morinfen!