So I've been running Thraximundar as an EDH General for about 8 month's now. I've gone through many iterations and have currently hit a stand still. The last few running deck builds have been somewhat of glass cannons that will either fall on it's own face or smash through everyone. As such I've been tinkering with the deck trying to get it to a point where it plays consistently well each game; but in trying to do so I continue to hit the same wall each time: I get stuck around 110-115 cards (after cutting down from higher) in the deck and tend to sit unable to choose which remaining cards to remove.
So instead of trying to start another thread trying to cut cards from my deck (again), I'm going to try something a bit different: starting from scratch and building the deck step by step from the ground up. With this deck being my first EDH deck in my 13 years of playing, and my inability to properly trim the deck, I am hoping that by being transparent and documented in my deckbuilding process that decision flaws can be spotted for a better result.
Why Thraximundar and the Playstyle
I love Zombies. I've loved playing them since I got the Legion Zombies Unleashed theme deck back in 2003, which was the first iteration of my decade long Zombie deck that is still my favorite deck. On top of that I have another Reanimator Zombie deck. So when my meta began shifting over to an EDH heavy group, I decided to stick with what I knew and stay tribal. Picking Thrax himself was easy enough. With there being only 14 Zombie generals (Haakon and Phage don't count despite a few shenanigans to get them into playable spots) and only 3 with tri-colored builds, Thrax was the better of the 3 for more flexible gameplay options.
Ideally, the deck is to run as a symbiotic build of 2 ideas: A sac engine/stax deck to boost Thraximundar up and clear opponent's boards as well as a Zombie tribal deck. Needless to say, Thrax is an expensive cast at 4UBR, and even with things such as Rooftop Storm, Urza's Incubator and other casting cost reductions, if those are removed or he's killed enough (which he does, repeatedly) he can easily get up to 13+ CMC to cast. On top of that, my meta is ripe with Runed Halo and Nevermore. While this dual deck style philosophy has made building the deck a bit more complex, there have been repeated times where having that second aspect of the deck has kept me in very close games, on top of time I've actually forgotten Thrax was even there to cast due to the Zombie Tribal running well.
My current meta is a fairly cutthroat group. The more dominant decks are: Vish Kal; Omnath; Jhoria; Progenitus; Kemba; Grand Artiter; Animar; Kresh; Thromak; Rafiq; Arcum, as well as other Generals such as Isamaru; Kaalia; Sedris; Skittles; and Thalia.
Usually games range from 1v1's to 7 player FFA's and Pentagram. However, due to the nature of the deck, Thrax tend to not get along with other generals at the playground and gets picked on. Except for Kresh. Thrax and Kresh are best friendsies!
The deck itself has gone through numerous variations and builds. At first there was an added notion of stealing opponents creatures through means such as Prince of Thralls, Lim-Dûl and Slave of Bolas style of cards. It didn't work well and was an unreliable aspect of the deck. Following that were iterations a bit more focused on the sacrificing aspect. While more effective, the consistency was off still leading to the hit and miss issues with the deck.
Currently I am looking to put a bit more token generation and self sacrificing into the deck in order to have consistency and synergizing with cards such as Grave Pact or Butcher of Malakir as well as Skullclamp and other sacrificial outlets like Grimgrin
Starting off with a solid section of the deck locked off and set aside for land and mana rocks.
I'm looking to have a total of 34/35 lands with an addition of 6/7 mana artifacts for a bit of ramp.
I feel that waiting for the full substance of the deck to then choose what is needed for
multi producing lands would be a better way to choose mana distributions.
This brings me to 60 open slots for cards as a start.
[SIZE="5"]Part 1: Initial Cards[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"]Structure of the Deck[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Construction By Role[/SIZE] Primary Roles
Opponent Sacrificing
Self Sacrificial Outlets
Death Interactives
Secondary Roles
Token Generators
Recurring Creatures
Support Roles
Graveyard Return
Removal and Wrath
Tutors & Draw cards
Zombies
Zombies
Zombie Support
Other Cards
EDH Staples
Power Cards
The way I've structured the deck building process in the past was to create said list above as a descending order of importance in the deck's roles and allocate space to the more important roles for greater deck consistency. The secondary aspect to the construction is fitting Zombies into roles before reaching that section of the process. Everything listed here range from once glance no take's to very hard to choose if to remove or not.
The staple idea behind the deck: forcing opponent's to sacrifice their board state to both boost Thraximundar up and clear a path to attack them. This section splits into 2 sections: Upkeep Permanents and Edict Effects
Upkeep Permanents are The Abyss effects, sitting on the field and repeatably triggering to clear everyone's board.
Anowon, the Ruin Sage: Call to the Grave on a stick but for Vamipres. Not only not sticking with theme but strictly worse as it is a creature and only triggers on my upkeep instead of each player's upkeep. Not Included
Braids, Cabal Minion: The banned general herself, Braids draws a special kind of hate. While being a creature leaves her open to removal, it also sets up for better recursion. And while she may also force me to sacrifice my own creatures (which can also be a good thing), she can sac herself if need be to remove her. ([SIZE="1"]Secondary Role: Self Sac Outlet[/SIZE]) Included
Call to the Grave: A staple of any Zombie deck, only down sides are gets taken off the board after a Wrath effect and being an enchantment it's very hard for Grixis colors to have any enchantment recursion. Included
Kuon, Ogre Ascendant: A flip card, Kuon has the benefit of being played as a creature, which allows for him to be brought back easier, and when triggered becomes an enchantment making removal harder. On top of that, he's the only one of these cards able to survive a Wrath effect. His primary downside are the 3 creature death requirement to flip, and that once flipped he has the potential to become a problem that I may be unable to remove. In the event of a Wrath effect, Kuon's Essence can potentially lock my own creatures out of the board as well. Unsure to Add
Sheoldred, Whispering One: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] The black Praetor, give both forced sac and graveyard-to-battlefield recursion, as well as having swampwalk. Blah blah blah, Sheoldred is an auto take. Included
[SIZE="4"]Question:[/SIZE] With 3 Abyss effects already there, would including Kuon be to redundant in the deck? What have been people's experience with him?
Edict effects are just that: forcing players to sacrifice creatures.
Sorceries Barter in Blood: A doubled Innocent Blood for quadrupled the cost. No thank you. Not Included
Chainer's Edict: An Edict with flashback is nice, but at 7 CMC for it I really can't see a spot for this. On top of that it is sorcery speed, which makes the flashback even less useful. Not Included
Consuming Vapors: This is a card I am unsure of. On one hand the card is basically 2 Edict cards in 1; and having the cost of said 2 cards for the single card slot. The added life gain is a nice bonus but the CMC and speed of the card have me on the fence. Unsure to Add
Cruel Edict: Another sorcery edict that can't even target my own creatures to save them from being tucked. Not Included
Innocent Blood: I've had many people dismiss this card due to causing me to sacrifice my own creature as well. In the almost 12 years or running this card, it's been one of my favorite 1 drops next to Festering Goblin. Yes it can be a dead draw if I only have a single creature on the field, but the added benefit of being able to make everyone sac a creature for only B has been amazing both early and late game. The only issue now is whether or not to keep this or use Smallpox. Unsure to Add
Smallpox: Mini Pox, this card delivers a nice little hit to everyone on the board. Hitting like Innocent Blood making everyone sac a creature, but for the price of B, an additional Discard, Life and Land. However, where Innocent Blood can be an amazing early drop, Smallpox isn't nearly as easy to drop and takes a much different board state to be effective. Unsure to Add
Syphon Flesh: Yes it makes Zombie tokens and makes opponents sacrifice, but it requires 3+ opponents in play to make it anything but underwhelming and be better than Moan of the Unhallowed. I've never had this card do anything but under perform. Not Included
Instants Devour Flesh: An edict that allows the owner of the sac'ed creature to gain life via the toughness. While that can cause players to gain life, it is 1B instead of BB of Geth's Verdict. Unsure to Add
Diabolic Edict: The granddaddy Edict with no drawbacks. Included
Geth's Verdict: A nice edict effect for BB with an additional 1 Life loss to the sacing player. With the majority of my mana base being black, the cost rarely, becomes an issue. Compete's with Devour Flesh. Unsure to Add
Tribute to Hunger: A 3 drop edict, the additional 1 giving you life gain from the sac'ed creature. as with things such as spot removal and counters, the additional single mana makes this card that much slower and it's not always big creatures that get sac'ed. Not Included
Urborg Justice: I stumbled across this card recently and really like the potential it has. For the price of an edict, it has the potential to make an opponent sacrifice far more than the single creature and become a mini Grave Pact. Included
Creatures Abyssal Gatekeeper: A universal sac creature effect upon leaving the board. Srictly worse than Fleshbag and Slum Reaper. Not Included
Ashling, the Extinguisher: Ashling gives something very big: targeted sacrifice. While not able to target pro/shroud/hexproof like most spot removal, it does get around indestructibility. Unfortunately, it only triggers upon successful player combat damage. As I have found with several of the Swords of X and Y, combat damage trigger's rarely perform consistently to be relied upon. Not Included
Fleshbag Marauder: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A fantastic zombie that is pretty mush a spell with constant return-ability to use again and again. Included
It That Betrays: It works very well with wrath effects and has Annihilator, as well as synergizing well with the theme of the deck, but has a big drawback: It's big cost. It's very rare that I will have the ramp to be able to get this card out in a reasonable amount of time. It will bee a dead card nearly all of the time. Not Included
Phyrexian Obliterator: Both a good attacker and blocker, this card keeps people from wanting to attack with big creatures, as well as having the ability to drop rather early as a big creature able to attack without worry of destruction. Included
Slum Reaper: Much like Fleshbag Marauder, only not a Zombie and costing 4 not 3. A potential card but unsure if i should use it. Unsure to Add
Spawnsire of Ulamog: Another Eldrazi, this time with the ability to generate tokens. However, for the price and the cost of the 2 tokens, the card is another dead draw. Not Included
Eldrazi Conscription: There for 1 reason: Make Thrax a big hitter. Giving Thrax a base +10/+10 on top of the Trample and the potential +3/+3 each turn attacking, the fact that the card costs 8 to cast is the only thing making this a questionable call. Unsure to Add
Consuming Vapors: For the cost and speed, I'm unsure as to the usefulness of the card for the slot.
Innocent Blood & Smallpox: I've run Innocent Blood for years an love it, but with the added effects in Smallpox, I'm looking for experiences as to whether I should run both or one or the other.
Devour Flesh & Geth's Verdict: I've run Geth's Verdict well for some time but would like some input if Devour Flesh would be a better card.
Urborg Justice: A card that looks to have so much potential, but I've seen little input about it anywhere are want to make sure I'm not making a diamond out of a lump of coal.
Eldrazi Conscription: Again just looking for an opinion on whether the card would be worth taking for it's CMC.
Slum Reaper: With Fleshbag already there and the additional mana cost, looking for input on the usefulness of the card.
[SIZE="3"]Sac Outlets[/SIZE]
Over the past few deck builds I've found that relying on forcing opponents to sacrifice creatures tended to be inconsistant to say the least, both in pumping Thrax and in clearing the board. So as the deck has progressed I've added more card to be used as sac outlets to make the deck more consistant.
There are 2 types of sac outlets in the deck: Repeatable and Single turn. Repeatables are the instant speed sacs that for the most part are free, while the Single turn outlets are the upkeep sacs and the spells that require a sacrifice.
Permanents Ashnod's Altar: The first of the Altars, Ashnod's allows for the sacrifice of a creature to generate 2. Initially to be put in to abuse Storm with Spawnsire of Ulamog, the 2 colorless mana lack the flexibility to be used except in certain cases. Not Included
Attrition: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Both a sac outlet and repeatable spot removal, this card has been a staple in the deck for some time. Included
Dark Privilege: Another old card I came across, Dark priviledge is a cheap aura that gives a base +1/+1 and turns any creature into a sac outlet as well as giving it regeneration. My only hangup with the card is a lack of player experience and feedback found. However with Fallen Ideal giving similar, it's a toss up. Unsure to Add
Fallen Ideal: Similar to Dark Priviledge, only 1 more and giving flying and a shade effect to the sacrifice. In addition, the card comes back when put into the graveyard. Unsure to Add
Phyrexian Altar: A part of several combos and fantastic for ramping from token sacrifice. Included
Creatures Carrion Feeder: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Thrax's little brother, Carrion is a nice 1 drop that can grow into a big threat at the sime time as boosting Thrax. Included
Gutless Ghoul: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] The ability to sac a creature for the price of 1 to give myself 2 life. There as a way to offset life loss by things such as Bitterblossom and Shepherd of Rot. In addition, the ability to sac chump blockers to gain life out of the combat. Unsure to Add
Grimgrin, Corpse-born: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A big zombie that requires sacrifices to work and over all a hefty beat stick with a spot removal effect with the attack similar to Thrax. Included
Nantuko Husk: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A sac outlet to turn the zombie into a temporary beat stick. Included
Phyrexian Ghoul: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] The same as Nantuko Husk. Included
Contamination: A wonderful card in the format to just absolutely lock the board. Even though several of my own spells are multi-colored, the majority are mono black and being able to control the game for even just a few turns to set up a board state is game changing. Included
Corpse Harvester: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Both a swamp and Zombie tutor at the cost of sacrificing a creature. Great for getting back Thrax after a tuck or getting Blood Crypt and Watery Grave. Included
Diabolic Intent: A tutor with a sac cost. While not as good as Diabolic, it's still been very useful. Included
Eldrazi Monument: Being able to boost creatures as well as flying and indestructibility for a sac every turn. While it lacks a mean's to remove itself, it does give nice protection against the wrath effects that are common in my meta. Not Included
Hell's Caretaker: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Having a repeatable sac outlet/return is nice, but the role is filled my Sheoldred already. I had thought of using this as a replacement for Victimize as this may give more return over time despite being vulnerable to removal. Included
Phyrexian Tower: Being able to sacrifice faster than instant speed, even if only once a turn. I've run the card before and it's been a hit and miss card. My sole issue with this card is it can be a complete dead draw early game as the T1 is less preferable to that of a colored mana producer. With the addition of things like Chromatic Lantern and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I'm hoping this card will have better usage in this build. Included
Victimize: Being able to return 2 creatures, though tapped, back to the battlefield for the price of 1. I've gotten good use out of this card in the past. Included
While not as directly useful as sacrificing, effects that gain use out of creature death create very good support and combos.
Permanents Black Market: Generating B each turn for each creature that has died, this enchantment has been a monster ramp card in the past, despite being a little slow to start. It also combo's well with things like Jokulhaups to ruin the board state for everyone else. Included
Dark Prophecy: As much as this works with the deck, it also kills several game winning combos with no way of getting rid of it, and for that reason alone I don't feel I can run the card.Not Included
Grave Betrayal: Having run this card in the past, I will attest to how effective it can be. Both in stealing creature to use and to sacrifice. However, I had taken it out due to the cost and the fact that it would sit in my hand more often then not. Added if room presents itself
Grave Pact: A massive part of the deck and an auto take for any sac engine. Included
Blade of the Bloodchief: A cheap Equipment that can be moved around and stays after death that allows counters to be put onto any creature. Unsure to Add
Skullclamp: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Made to be used in conjunction of turning tokens into draw power, for 1 any creature I sacrifice also gives me 2 cards. Included
Creatures Blood Artist: Life gain/ loss upon each creature death. Included
As a part of running a sac engine, there needs to be an abundance of sac-able creatures to fuel it. As such the need for tokens to keep the more important creatures alive.
Permanents Bitterblossom: Being able to put a flier token into play each turn that can stick around for the low price of 1 life. Only issue is a lack of ability to remove itself and long term play that can whittle down my life. Included
Elemental Mastery: Another card that people have told me to drop until they see it equipped to Grimgrin, Corpse-born. Even when not in Grim, the ability to drop this on a semi large creature to generate multiple tokens a turn has won me several games in the past. Included
Endless Ranks of the Dead: A fantastic Zombie tribal token generator, though a bit slow to get moving at first. Included
Goblin Assault: Though strictly worse than Bitterblossom, as tokens can't really build up except for rarer cases due to the attack each turn clause, but it does what is needed by giving a token each upkeep to go with things like Contamination or Grimgrin. Included
Tombstone Stairwell: A card I've seen in several Thrax builds, it's something I'm rather unsure of. Giving my opponents mass tokens does not make this deck's job any easier: there's a reason why the Kemba deck in my meta is such a pain for my deck to deal with. I haven't usually run enough graveyard hate to make the card worth it in the deck. While it can kick start a token base with Endless Ranks of the Dead in a single turn, ideally I want to keep my graveyard as empty as much as possible. Unsure to Add
Sorceries Army of the Damned: Expensive, but usually a board state changer. With 13 zombies being dropped on the board, it can be used as a flesh wall, bum rush a turn later or fuel for sacrificing. Tacking on flashback to be able to use it again also makes the card further useful. Included
Moan of the Unhallowed: In every game I've had this, it's been an underwhelming card in the same manner as Syphon Flesh. A 4 drop that makes only 2 tokens is usually a waste over many other ways to use the mana. Not Included
Creatures Cemetery Reaper: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Primarily used for his Lord ability, he also gives a bit of graveyard hate being able to remove things like Eldrazi at instant speed as they hit the yard and make a token. Included
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder: Making tokens whenever I cast a creature, Sahr Thrulls are there to be sac'd ASAP to keep him in the field. And though several creature kill him upon casting, there is enough ways for black to take him out of the grave yard. Included
Grave Titan: Zombie token generator. Auto take. Included
Havengul Runebinder: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While it can boost all of my zombies on the field, it does so my exiling a creature from my own graveyard to do so. So it's slow as is being reliant on my own graveyard having a creature, but also in that I need a creature I don't want to bring back. In addition, it boosts via +1/+1 counters instead of a base effect which kills Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's recursion. Not Included
Lich Lord of Unx: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While he has a mill and life loss ability, Unx is in the deck to make tokens each turn. I don't think I've ever used his second ability, though I usually get 4+ tokens out of him before he gets killed. Included
Liliana's Reaver: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Much like the Swords of X and Y as well as Ashling, Liliana's reaver token generating is reliant on dealing combat damage to a player. It's inconsistent at best. Not Included
Undead Alchemist: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While the card is pure opponent graveyard hate, the shift from damage to mill nerfs the ability for the deck to keep up the aggro. Yes the tokens can be generated for a turn or so before sacing Alchemist, but that turns a turn where Thrax may deal 10+ damage into maybe getting an unknown but low number of tokens. Not Included
[SIZE="4"]Question[/SIZE] Tombstone Stairwell. Unless I'm just missing something about this card, this card seems to assist my opponents too much.
[SIZE="3"]Recurring Creatures[/SIZE]
Recurring creatures help to take the load off the token generators to have creature that I can sac again and again.
Gravecrawler: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] King of the recurring creatures and a zombie. Included
Bloodghast: A card that I've had very poor results with. While it can come into play for free if I drop a land, there is that if I drop a land aspect to it. If I'm looking to sac the creature immediately after it comes back into play, that land drop doesn't help me at all in the mid or late with Bloodghast. Not Included
Nether Traitor: Another card I have used in the past that was simply "ok". However in past builds there was less emphasis on self sacrifice where the ability to put Nether into play for just B makes it potentially more potent. Unsure to Add/Needs Testing
Reassembling Skeleton: The common of these creatures, I've often found this card to be much more consistent over Bloodghast, with the card being able to be put in play multiple times a turn. Included
Mortus Strider: The more expensive of the group, Strider returns to the hand instead of hitting the graveyard. While it combo's well with Endrek Sahr, it unfortunately is too expensive to be used as much as any of the other cards here. Not Included
Permanents Grimoire of the Dead: Liliana Vess's ultimate ability with the addition of turning then into zombies. Taking at least 3 turns to go off on top of discarding, I've found in the past that it was slow and I'd rather play most cards than drop then into my graveyard. Not Included
Haunted Crossroads: Being able to en mass put creature back into my library does have a nice tone to it, but without a stable draw card in play, it's a dead draw in most circumstances, and nothing would be more infuriating than finding out one put cards over a mass graveyard return card. Not Included
Oversold Cemetery: I've tried using this card in the past several times. It came down to not consistently having 4+ cards in my graveyard except after a board wipe and when I did have the 4+ I found it far too slow and just would prefer a mass recursion like Living Death or Zombie Apocalypse. Not Included
Shade's Form: A dual purposed card that both gives a shade effect as well as False Demise. Having been very useful in saving cards against Wrath effects and removal, as well as giving cards large boosts in strength after attacking. Included
Unholy Grotto: Volrath's Stronghold for Zombies. And being a land does not take up an unfilled slot. Included
Volrath's Stronghold: A staple of many black decks with the ability to put creatures on top of the library, taking a land slot leaves space for other spells. Included
Sorceries Beacon of Unrest: Repeatable usage out of the card as it shuffles back into the library, it also returns artifacts as well as targets opponents' graveyards. Included
Ghoulcaller's Chant: Costing only B to cast and returning 2 zombies to my hand is nice, but having it go to my hand rather than the boards is something to also consider. Given that I can do the Same thing repeatedly with Lord of the Undead, Chant is unneeded. Not Included
Living Death: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Both a Wrath effect and a Recursion card, Living Death allows for the return of cards from the graveyard even with things such as Grafdigger Cage (which is another effect that has infected my meta). Despite helping opponents, getting around those effects are more important. Included
Patriarch's Bidding: Another mass return where players choose tribal. Since I am one of the only ones running tribal, this helps my opponents less. However, it's a card I don't yet have and need opinions on it. Unsure to Add
Victimize: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Yawgmoth's Will: Mass Graveyard recursion, Will is one of the only ways to get destroyed enchantment out of my yard. Included
Zombie Apocalypse: Mass Zombie return, and then destroying all humans. A nice side effect, it goes off every now and then to kill generals and creatures enough to be kept in. Included
Creatures Balthor the Defiled: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While being a zombie and being able to also mass return, the cost to do so on the turn needed is 7, and can only happen once. With things like Dralnu and Yawgmoth's Will, other spells have the ability to be played multiple times. Not Included
Crypt Champion: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] More so to be used as the only black Double Strike creature in the game, Champion also acts as a CMC < 3 Exhume enabling the return of many of the Zombies in the deck. On top of that, but having the 3 CMC limit keeps most heavy hitting creatures still in the graveyards of my opponents unlike Exhume. Unsure to Add
Havengul Lich: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] The ability to cast creatures from any graveyard for the surcharge of 1. Included
Hell's Caretaker: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Lord of the Undead: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A Lord effect and being able to return zombies to my hand from my graveyard each turn. Included
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Both a Lord effect, a destroy Human effect, and Undying to keep creatures out of the graveyard. Included
Dreadbore: The only spot removal that also can target planeswalkers, the chance of drawing this card when needed for that is so low that the ability to blow up planeswalkers will only be used in the rarest of occasions. Not Included
Shriekmaw: Not really a sorcery, but this card is only being used for 1 reason: it's Evoke. It gives both spot removal and a sacrifice to trigger several things in the deck. Included
Instants Bone Splinters: As much as it fits in with the deck with a sacrificing cost, the need to have removal on the fly renders the card to expensive and useless after things after a board wipe which is when removal can be most needed, ad at that cost I can use Attrition for repeatability. Not Included
Crosis's Charm: Despite being the most expensive spot removal in the deck, Crosis's Charm is able to give me both Artifact removal (something the deck severely lacks) and card bounce which I've used to save cards in the past as well as remove things like Troned up commanders with regenerate. Included
Doom Blade: The staple of black removal since it's replacing of Terror. Unfortunately, the non-black leaves a fair amount of cards that Doom can't target. Not Included
Murder: A more expensive Terminate without regenerate and an additional B. In a pinch the fact that this card costs more to cast can cost the tempo of the game and delay cards for another turn. Not Included
Terminate: The long standing best spot removal in the game. Included
Tragic Slip: Fantastic for removing indestructible creatures or with regenerate for only a single CMC, the only downside is having the Morbid cost which in this deck shouldn't be to difficult to do. Included
Victim of Night: I have used Victim for a while now, and have found it as an outstanding replacement for Doom blade. While it's use in standard was terrible due to the block it was released in being Zombie, Vampire, and Werewolf based, in EDH it's been very successful. As nearly all Zombies and Vampires are already black, I only lose out on being able to target Werewolves running this over Doom Blade. Holy insignificant creature type in the format Batman!Included
Wrath effects and board wipes are a type of card I have very little experience with, as I have never had to use them in my 60 card decks over the years. Currently I've been using:
Skullclamp: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Death Interactive
Underworld Connections: Essentially a 1: Pay 1 life, draw a card. The only part that is better than Arena is the fact that I can choose not to draw if life is low. Not Included
Diabolic Intent: Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Diabolic Tutor: The standard tutor, there are better cards to use. Not Included
Increasing Ambition: Having run it in the past, the flashback cost has rarely been used and the 5 is a bit much. Not Included
Creatures Blood Scrivener: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Triggering only when I don't have cards in my hand, chances of having this at the right time are low.
Corpse Harvester: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Graveborn Muse: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Pretty much an accelerated Phyrexian Arena, being a creature Muse gives me a way to draw a large amount of cards then remove her from play so that I don't kill myself.
Adaptive Automaton: Not actually a Zombie until it comes into play, it still provides a lord effect. Included
Boneknitter: Although this card is outclassed my Zombie Master, Bonekitter's also been used extensively as a means of redundancy. Included
Coffin Queen: A form of creature theft. Having never played the card, I am unsure as to how well it would work in conjunction with my deck as in the past that path did not work well. Not Included
Death Baron: Lord Ability and Deathtouch to all other zombies. Included
Dralnu, Lich Lord: Although his ability to force me to sacrifice permanents may be problematic in some circumstances, for the most part it will help. And being able to give spells flashback is just dandy to. Included
Festering Goblin: As much as I love the little bugger, in the format he's not as good. Not Included
Gempalm Polluter: Comboing with cards like Unholy Grotto and Volrath's Stronghold, and to a lesser extent Lord of the Undead, being able to force players to lose life. Unfortunately, I've never had the card pack enough of a punch Not Included
Grave Defiler: For a while I rand Call to the Kindred, as this card acts much like that except to the hand and not to play. But what consistently happened was I would be forced to put cards on the bottom that could have worked very well with what I had in play that then went to waste. Not Included
Helldozer: Land destruction can be a pain and can shut down many decks. Included
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade: A bit nerfed in the format as Grandeur really make this card shine, the fact that I am running so many non swamp lands really hurts this guy. While Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth helps him greatly, I'm not sure that alone is enough to save taking him out. Usually Soulles One runs better. Not Included
Maalfeld Twins: Expensive and little reward in the death. Not Included
Nightscape Familiar: Despite being Grixis, the deck is mostly Black and this does little to assist that. Not Included
Noxious Ghoul: A potential board wipe that works well with mass graveyard return or getting rid of pesky small creatures. Included
Phyrexian Crusader: A great card if just for the first strike and the pro 2 colors. I wish it didn't have infect but oh well. Included
Pontiff of Blight: Granting all of my creatures Extort to offset the life costs of things like Phyrexian Arena? Included
Shepherd of Rot: Hitting everyone and being able to untap with Fatestitcher to hit them again. Included
Soulless One: Beefy Zombie that can grow. Included
Twisted Abomination: Big creature for late game, land fetch for early. Included
Undead Warchief: A lord that makes zombies bigger and easier to cast. Included
Withered Wretch: Graveyard hate, making Tombstone Stairwell very viable. Unsure to Add
Zombie Master: The first Zombie lord, the swampwalk works well with Urborg, though the main reason he is her is for the reanimation. Included
Zombie Trailblazer: While it can work well at making zombies unblockable or shutting down lands for opponents, Contamination and Zombe Master work better. Not Included
Zombie Tribal cards are just that: cards that interact with zombies.
Door of Destinies: While a bit slow, Door gives the ability to really strengthen Zombies. The primary downside is it does nothing when it hits the field, and if drawn in a late game, it's fairly useless. Unsure to Add
Rooftop Storm: Belongs in every non mono black Zombie Deck. Included
Urza's Incubator: While Rooftop is my big way at getting zombies out, it's one of the first things to be be targeted for destruction. Incubator also drops earlier and acts somewht as a mana rock. Included
[SIZE="3"]Question[/SIZE]: How has Door of Destinies worked with people in the past?
[SIZE="4"]EDH Staples and Power cards[/SIZE]
A final mix of powerful cards and cards that have a place in most if not all EDH decks.
Neowalkers
Liliana Vess: Being able to tutor twice is the big one. Second is her ultimate which steals everything in graveyards. Included
Nicol Bolas: Bolas is Bolas. He's a really big and scary card to drop as usually it makes any politics shift against me. Played at the right time he can make a big footprint in the game. Included
Sorin Markov: Is his -3 ability dickish? Yes. Do people hate him? Yes. Is he worth the slot? He has been in the past repeatedly. Included
Equipment
Batterskull: Hard to destroy, a chump creature to sac and boosts whatever I equip it to. Included
Whispersilk Cloak : Shroud and Unblockable. This card has made Thrax a killer in the past. Included
Umezawa's Jitte & Sensei's Divining Top: I have yet to aquire these card into my collection and don't feel quite like spending on them, so for now: Not Included
Sorceries Bribery: The last card from when the deck had an aspect of stealing creatures, Bribery has been too good to take out. Every time I draw it I get happy because it means that I'll probably get a Blightsteel or Eldrazi. Included
Exsanguinate: A nice life gain in multiplayer games. Included
Sadistic Sacrament Being able to remove a few known problem cards from a person's deck can shut down a few hard combos. The ability to gut someone's deck of useful cards makes the kicker cost worth it. Included
-Hell's Caretaker: Sheoldred Takes that slot of recursion.
-Kuon. In order to trigger takes too much.
+Smokestack
-Noxious Ghoul: Never really worked well enough for me in the past with the deck.
-Profane Command: No matter what I want to do with the card, there are other cards in the deck that do it better and cheaper.
-Phyrexian Ghoul: Nantuko Husk is the same card
-Boneknitter: Zombie Master delivers better.
-Sadistic Sacrament: As much fun as this card is, it doesn't fit in with the deck.
I think instead of looking at each card independently you should start your deckbuiliding process with a goal. What do you want thraximundar to do:
Is this Voltron where you're trying to get to your endgame with general damage? Are you a combo deck that's using thraximundar as a plan B?
Are you a pure control deck with tons of removal and counters and thraximundar serves as a finisher?
These are some example questions you should ask yourself first before moving on to card selection, because each strategy is going to want different of amounts of certain things, and each strategy is going to want totally different support in the 99.
I think instead of looking at each card independently you should start your deckbuiliding process with a goal. What do you want thraximundar to do:
Is this Voltron where you're trying to get to your endgame with general damage? Are you a combo deck that's using thraximundar as a plan B?
Are you a pure control deck with tons of removal and counters and thraximundar serves as a finisher?s
That was addressed in the first section of the first post. I've already listed the ideas what I structured the deck around.
My apologies, i guess i didn't read the fine print. So you're essentially wanting to make thraximundar Stax?
There are a ton of Thraximundar stax threads that can spark some ideas outside of the cards you listed. Google it!
It's Thrax Stax/control, but also Zombie Tribal (mostly), and finding the balance between the 2.
Ideally, the deck is to run as a symbiotic build of 2 ideas: A sac engine to boost Thraximundar up and clear opponent's boards as well as a Zombie tribal deck. Needless to say, Thrax is an expensive cast at 4UBR, and even with things such as Rooftop Storm, Urza's Incubator and other casting cost reductions, if those are removed or he's killed enough (which he does, repeatedly) he can easily get up to 13+ CMC to cast. On top of that, my meta is ripe with Runed Halo and Nevermore. While this dual deck style philosophy has made building the deck a bit more complex, there have been repeated times where having that second aspect of the deck has kept me in very close games, on top of time I've actually forgotten Thrax was even there to cast due to the Zombie Tribal running well.
If I were making strait Thrax Stax, it would be easy as all I would be doing is focusing on stax abilities.
I'm currently shuffling some ideas around Thrax so I will be following this thread closely. Just wanted to point out my interest to give you the motivation to finish it up
I'm currently shuffling some ideas around Thrax so I will be following this thread closely. Just wanted to point out my interest to give you the motivation to finish it up
It's not that I'm lazy and don't want to finish, I've got several questions in my first post that I'm looking to be answered before I can move forward.
It's not that I'm lazy and don't want to finish, I've got several questions in my first post that I'm looking to be answered before I can move forward.
I didn't imply that you are. I was just saying that I like the idea.
Seems you missed Culling Dais in your sac outlets section, I highly recommend it. Rarely does it draw me less than 5 cards in my Thraximundar list, the most I think being 12.
Seems you missed Culling Dais in your sac outlets section, I highly recommend it. Rarely does it draw me less than 5 cards in my Thraximundar list, the most I think being 12.
I had looked at that but due to already knowing I was already over the card limit and that I can't sacrifice more than once a turn with it, I took Skullclamp and Graveborn Muse over Dais.
khabal ghoul looks like it could grow fast with the sac theme (even though the original card type was ghoul it is listed as zombie) Lifebane zombie with recursion it can be card advantage Nightscape Master bounce effects can abuse opposing commanders or ETB effects (also changed to zombie on gatherer)
khabal ghoul looks like it could grow fast with the sac theme (even though the original card type was ghoul it is listed as zombie) Lifebane zombie with recursion it can be card advantage Nightscape Master bounce effects can abuse opposing commanders or ETB effects (also changed to zombie on gatherer)
Right Now I've already selected the cards that may go into the deck. All I'm looking into now it advice in the questions asked and cutting the excess cards.
Yeah I've been stuck on tweaking this deck for a few months now and am trying to be over detailed to make it easier for people to help. Instead it's been all TL;DR
Damnation right now is a little bit out of the price range at the moment and is being filled by Blasphemous Act. In the event I get Damnation it will be replacing that. I really like Decree of Pain, I'm just not sure what to replace for it.
-Hell's Caretaker: Sheoldred Takes that slot of recursion.
-Kuon. In order to trigger takes too much.
+Smokestack
-Noxious Ghoul: Never really worked well enough for me in the past with the deck.
-Profane Command: No matter what I want to do with the card, there are other cards in the deck that do it better and cheaper.
-Phyrexian Ghoul: Nantuko Husk is the same card
-Boneknitter: Zombie Master delivers better.
-Sadistic Sacrament: As much fun as this card is, it doesn't fit in with the deck.
Total number of added cards: 120
Total number of questioned slots:
Needed to drop: 20
I'll add my 2cents on this one. Literally the only buffer worth it is blade of the bloodchief as it acts like a localised doubling season for thrax! and even then there might be better options.
The auras are raw card disadvantage in a deck like this, your looking for sac outlets that do something on their own without thrax, none of those do that particularly well. If you want to go the voltron route there are better options out there.
As for tombstone stairwell... The sheer number of tokens this spits out is pretty insane. Add in the fact that you are built to abuse them with sacrifice means this is probably your best way to pump thrax. Add in vicious shadows and you're golden.
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I love Zombies. I've loved playing them since I got the Legion Zombies Unleashed theme deck back in 2003, which was the first iteration of my decade long Zombie deck that is still my favorite deck. On top of that I have another Reanimator Zombie deck. So when my meta began shifting over to an EDH heavy group, I decided to stick with what I knew and stay tribal. Picking Thrax himself was easy enough. With there being only 14 Zombie generals (Haakon and Phage don't count despite a few shenanigans to get them into playable spots) and only 3 with tri-colored builds, Thrax was the better of the 3 for more flexible gameplay options.
Ideally, the deck is to run as a symbiotic build of 2 ideas: A sac engine/stax deck to boost Thraximundar up and clear opponent's boards as well as a Zombie tribal deck. Needless to say, Thrax is an expensive cast at 4UBR, and even with things such as Rooftop Storm, Urza's Incubator and other casting cost reductions, if those are removed or he's killed enough (which he does, repeatedly) he can easily get up to 13+ CMC to cast. On top of that, my meta is ripe with Runed Halo and Nevermore. While this dual deck style philosophy has made building the deck a bit more complex, there have been repeated times where having that second aspect of the deck has kept me in very close games, on top of time I've actually forgotten Thrax was even there to cast due to the Zombie Tribal running well.
My current meta is a fairly cutthroat group. The more dominant decks are: Vish Kal; Omnath; Jhoria; Progenitus; Kemba; Grand Artiter; Animar; Kresh; Thromak; Rafiq; Arcum, as well as other Generals such as Isamaru; Kaalia; Sedris; Skittles; and Thalia.
Usually games range from 1v1's to 7 player FFA's and Pentagram. However, due to the nature of the deck, Thrax tend to not get along with other generals at the playground and gets picked on. Except for Kresh. Thrax and Kresh are best friendsies!
The deck itself has gone through numerous variations and builds. At first there was an added notion of stealing opponents creatures through means such as Prince of Thralls, Lim-Dûl and Slave of Bolas style of cards. It didn't work well and was an unreliable aspect of the deck. Following that were iterations a bit more focused on the sacrificing aspect. While more effective, the consistency was off still leading to the hit and miss issues with the deck.
Currently I am looking to put a bit more token generation and self sacrificing into the deck in order to have consistency and synergizing with cards such as Grave Pact or Butcher of Malakir as well as Skullclamp and other sacrificial outlets like Grimgrin
1 Thraximundar
13 Island
13 Mountain
14 Swamp
I'm looking to have a total of 34/35 lands with an addition of 6/7 mana artifacts for a bit of ramp.
I feel that waiting for the full substance of the deck to then choose what is needed for
multi producing lands would be a better way to choose mana distributions.
This brings me to 60 open slots for cards as a start.
[SIZE="4"]Structure of the Deck[/SIZE]
Primary Roles
The way I've structured the deck building process in the past was to create said list above as a descending order of importance in the deck's roles and allocate space to the more important roles for greater deck consistency. The secondary aspect to the construction is fitting Zombies into roles before reaching that section of the process. Everything listed here range from once glance no take's to very hard to choose if to remove or not.
[SIZE="3"]Opponent Sacrificing[/SIZE]
The staple idea behind the deck: forcing opponent's to sacrifice their board state to both boost Thraximundar up and clear a path to attack them. This section splits into 2 sections: Upkeep Permanents and Edict Effects
Upkeep Permanents are The Abyss effects, sitting on the field and repeatably triggering to clear everyone's board.
Anowon, the Ruin Sage: Call to the Grave on a stick but for Vamipres. Not only not sticking with theme but strictly worse as it is a creature and only triggers on my upkeep instead of each player's upkeep. Not Included
Braids, Cabal Minion: The banned general herself, Braids draws a special kind of hate. While being a creature leaves her open to removal, it also sets up for better recursion. And while she may also force me to sacrifice my own creatures (which can also be a good thing), she can sac herself if need be to remove her. ([SIZE="1"]Secondary Role: Self Sac Outlet[/SIZE]) Included
Call to the Grave: A staple of any Zombie deck, only down sides are gets taken off the board after a Wrath effect and being an enchantment it's very hard for Grixis colors to have any enchantment recursion. Included
Kuon, Ogre Ascendant: A flip card, Kuon has the benefit of being played as a creature, which allows for him to be brought back easier, and when triggered becomes an enchantment making removal harder. On top of that, he's the only one of these cards able to survive a Wrath effect. His primary downside are the 3 creature death requirement to flip, and that once flipped he has the potential to become a problem that I may be unable to remove. In the event of a Wrath effect, Kuon's Essence can potentially lock my own creatures out of the board as well. Unsure to Add
Sheoldred, Whispering One: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] The black Praetor, give both forced sac and graveyard-to-battlefield recursion, as well as having swampwalk. Blah blah blah, Sheoldred is an auto take. Included
1 Call to the Grave
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
[SIZE="4"]Question:[/SIZE] With 3 Abyss effects already there, would including Kuon be to redundant in the deck? What have been people's experience with him?
Edict effects are just that: forcing players to sacrifice creatures.
Sorceries
Barter in Blood: A doubled Innocent Blood for quadrupled the cost. No thank you. Not Included
Chainer's Edict: An Edict with flashback is nice, but at 7 CMC for it I really can't see a spot for this. On top of that it is sorcery speed, which makes the flashback even less useful. Not Included
Consuming Vapors: This is a card I am unsure of. On one hand the card is basically 2 Edict cards in 1; and having the cost of said 2 cards for the single card slot. The added life gain is a nice bonus but the CMC and speed of the card have me on the fence. Unsure to Add
Cruel Edict: Another sorcery edict that can't even target my own creatures to save them from being tucked. Not Included
Innocent Blood: I've had many people dismiss this card due to causing me to sacrifice my own creature as well. In the almost 12 years or running this card, it's been one of my favorite 1 drops next to Festering Goblin. Yes it can be a dead draw if I only have a single creature on the field, but the added benefit of being able to make everyone sac a creature for only B has been amazing both early and late game. The only issue now is whether or not to keep this or use Smallpox. Unsure to Add
Smallpox: Mini Pox, this card delivers a nice little hit to everyone on the board. Hitting like Innocent Blood making everyone sac a creature, but for the price of B, an additional Discard, Life and Land. However, where Innocent Blood can be an amazing early drop, Smallpox isn't nearly as easy to drop and takes a much different board state to be effective. Unsure to Add
Syphon Flesh: Yes it makes Zombie tokens and makes opponents sacrifice, but it requires 3+ opponents in play to make it anything but underwhelming and be better than Moan of the Unhallowed. I've never had this card do anything but under perform. Not Included
Instants
Devour Flesh: An edict that allows the owner of the sac'ed creature to gain life via the toughness. While that can cause players to gain life, it is 1B instead of BB of Geth's Verdict. Unsure to Add
Diabolic Edict: The granddaddy Edict with no drawbacks. Included
Geth's Verdict: A nice edict effect for BB with an additional 1 Life loss to the sacing player. With the majority of my mana base being black, the cost rarely, becomes an issue. Compete's with Devour Flesh. Unsure to Add
Tribute to Hunger: A 3 drop edict, the additional 1 giving you life gain from the sac'ed creature. as with things such as spot removal and counters, the additional single mana makes this card that much slower and it's not always big creatures that get sac'ed. Not Included
Urborg Justice: I stumbled across this card recently and really like the potential it has. For the price of an edict, it has the potential to make an opponent sacrifice far more than the single creature and become a mini Grave Pact. Included
Creatures
Abyssal Gatekeeper: A universal sac creature effect upon leaving the board. Srictly worse than Fleshbag and Slum Reaper. Not Included
Ashling, the Extinguisher: Ashling gives something very big: targeted sacrifice. While not able to target pro/shroud/hexproof like most spot removal, it does get around indestructibility. Unfortunately, it only triggers upon successful player combat damage. As I have found with several of the Swords of X and Y, combat damage trigger's rarely perform consistently to be relied upon. Not Included
Fleshbag Marauder: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A fantastic zombie that is pretty mush a spell with constant return-ability to use again and again. Included
It That Betrays: It works very well with wrath effects and has Annihilator, as well as synergizing well with the theme of the deck, but has a big drawback: It's big cost. It's very rare that I will have the ramp to be able to get this card out in a reasonable amount of time. It will bee a dead card nearly all of the time. Not Included
Phyrexian Obliterator: Both a good attacker and blocker, this card keeps people from wanting to attack with big creatures, as well as having the ability to drop rather early as a big creature able to attack without worry of destruction. Included
Slum Reaper: Much like Fleshbag Marauder, only not a Zombie and costing 4 not 3. A potential card but unsure if i should use it. Unsure to Add
Spawnsire of Ulamog: Another Eldrazi, this time with the ability to generate tokens. However, for the price and the cost of the 2 tokens, the card is another dead draw. Not Included
Eldrazi Conscription: There for 1 reason: Make Thrax a big hitter. Giving Thrax a base +10/+10 on top of the Trample and the potential +3/+3 each turn attacking, the fact that the card costs 8 to cast is the only thing making this a questionable call. Unsure to Add
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Urborg Justice
Creatures
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Innocent Blood
1 Smallpox
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Eldrazi Conscription
[SIZE="4"]Questions:[/SIZE]
Over the past few deck builds I've found that relying on forcing opponents to sacrifice creatures tended to be inconsistant to say the least, both in pumping Thrax and in clearing the board. So as the deck has progressed I've added more card to be used as sac outlets to make the deck more consistant.
There are 2 types of sac outlets in the deck: Repeatable and Single turn. Repeatables are the instant speed sacs that for the most part are free, while the Single turn outlets are the upkeep sacs and the spells that require a sacrifice.
Permanents
Ashnod's Altar: The first of the Altars, Ashnod's allows for the sacrifice of a creature to generate 2. Initially to be put in to abuse Storm with Spawnsire of Ulamog, the 2 colorless mana lack the flexibility to be used except in certain cases. Not Included
Attrition: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Both a sac outlet and repeatable spot removal, this card has been a staple in the deck for some time. Included
Dark Privilege: Another old card I came across, Dark priviledge is a cheap aura that gives a base +1/+1 and turns any creature into a sac outlet as well as giving it regeneration. My only hangup with the card is a lack of player experience and feedback found. However with Fallen Ideal giving similar, it's a toss up. Unsure to Add
Fallen Ideal: Similar to Dark Priviledge, only 1 more and giving flying and a shade effect to the sacrifice. In addition, the card comes back when put into the graveyard. Unsure to Add
Phyrexian Altar: A part of several combos and fantastic for ramping from token sacrifice. Included
Creatures
Carrion Feeder: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Thrax's little brother, Carrion is a nice 1 drop that can grow into a big threat at the sime time as boosting Thrax. Included
Gutless Ghoul: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] The ability to sac a creature for the price of 1 to give myself 2 life. There as a way to offset life loss by things such as Bitterblossom and Shepherd of Rot. In addition, the ability to sac chump blockers to gain life out of the combat. Unsure to Add
Grimgrin, Corpse-born: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A big zombie that requires sacrifices to work and over all a hefty beat stick with a spot removal effect with the attack similar to Thrax. Included
Nantuko Husk: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A sac outlet to turn the zombie into a temporary beat stick. Included
Phyrexian Ghoul: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] The same as Nantuko Husk. Included
1 Attrition
1 Phyrexian Altar
Creatures
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-born
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Phyrexian Ghoul
1 Dark Privilege
1 Fallen Ideal
1 Gutless Ghoul
[SIZE="4"]Questions:[/SIZE]
Contamination: A wonderful card in the format to just absolutely lock the board. Even though several of my own spells are multi-colored, the majority are mono black and being able to control the game for even just a few turns to set up a board state is game changing. Included
Corpse Harvester: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Both a swamp and Zombie tutor at the cost of sacrificing a creature. Great for getting back Thrax after a tuck or getting Blood Crypt and Watery Grave. Included
Diabolic Intent: A tutor with a sac cost. While not as good as Diabolic, it's still been very useful. Included
Eldrazi Monument: Being able to boost creatures as well as flying and indestructibility for a sac every turn. While it lacks a mean's to remove itself, it does give nice protection against the wrath effects that are common in my meta. Not Included
Hell's Caretaker: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Having a repeatable sac outlet/return is nice, but the role is filled my Sheoldred already. I had thought of using this as a replacement for Victimize as this may give more return over time despite being vulnerable to removal. Included
Phyrexian Tower: Being able to sacrifice faster than instant speed, even if only once a turn. I've run the card before and it's been a hit and miss card. My sole issue with this card is it can be a complete dead draw early game as the T1 is less preferable to that of a colored mana producer. With the addition of things like Chromatic Lantern and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I'm hoping this card will have better usage in this build. Included
Victimize: Being able to return 2 creatures, though tapped, back to the battlefield for the price of 1. I've gotten good use out of this card in the past. Included
1 Corpse Harvester
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Hell's Caretaker
1 Victimize
[SIZE="4"]Questions:[/SIZE]
While not as directly useful as sacrificing, effects that gain use out of creature death create very good support and combos.
Permanents
Black Market: Generating B each turn for each creature that has died, this enchantment has been a monster ramp card in the past, despite being a little slow to start. It also combo's well with things like Jokulhaups to ruin the board state for everyone else. Included
Dark Prophecy: As much as this works with the deck, it also kills several game winning combos with no way of getting rid of it, and for that reason alone I don't feel I can run the card.Not Included
Grave Betrayal: Having run this card in the past, I will attest to how effective it can be. Both in stealing creature to use and to sacrifice. However, I had taken it out due to the cost and the fact that it would sit in my hand more often then not. Added if room presents itself
Grave Pact: A massive part of the deck and an auto take for any sac engine. Included
Blade of the Bloodchief: A cheap Equipment that can be moved around and stays after death that allows counters to be put onto any creature. Unsure to Add
Skullclamp: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Made to be used in conjunction of turning tokens into draw power, for 1 any creature I sacrifice also gives me 2 cards. Included
Creatures
Blood Artist: Life gain/ loss upon each creature death. Included
Butcher of Malakir: Grave Pact on a stick. Included
Deathbringer Thoctar: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While expensive, this card works very well with removal and is a part of 4 combos. Included
Diregraf Captain: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Zombie Lord and giving the ability for life loss. Included
Venegful Dead: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Untargeted Life loss. Included
1 Black Market
1 Grave Pact
1 Skullclamp
1 Blood Artist
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Deathbringer Thoctar
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Venegful Dead
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
[SIZE="4"]Questions[/SIZE] Opinions on using Blade of the Bloodchief.
[SIZE="3"]Token Generators[/SIZE]
As a part of running a sac engine, there needs to be an abundance of sac-able creatures to fuel it. As such the need for tokens to keep the more important creatures alive.
Permanents
Bitterblossom: Being able to put a flier token into play each turn that can stick around for the low price of 1 life. Only issue is a lack of ability to remove itself and long term play that can whittle down my life. Included
Elemental Mastery: Another card that people have told me to drop until they see it equipped to Grimgrin, Corpse-born. Even when not in Grim, the ability to drop this on a semi large creature to generate multiple tokens a turn has won me several games in the past. Included
Endless Ranks of the Dead: A fantastic Zombie tribal token generator, though a bit slow to get moving at first. Included
Goblin Assault: Though strictly worse than Bitterblossom, as tokens can't really build up except for rarer cases due to the attack each turn clause, but it does what is needed by giving a token each upkeep to go with things like Contamination or Grimgrin. Included
Tombstone Stairwell: A card I've seen in several Thrax builds, it's something I'm rather unsure of. Giving my opponents mass tokens does not make this deck's job any easier: there's a reason why the Kemba deck in my meta is such a pain for my deck to deal with. I haven't usually run enough graveyard hate to make the card worth it in the deck. While it can kick start a token base with Endless Ranks of the Dead in a single turn, ideally I want to keep my graveyard as empty as much as possible. Unsure to Add
Sorceries
Army of the Damned: Expensive, but usually a board state changer. With 13 zombies being dropped on the board, it can be used as a flesh wall, bum rush a turn later or fuel for sacrificing. Tacking on flashback to be able to use it again also makes the card further useful. Included
Moan of the Unhallowed: In every game I've had this, it's been an underwhelming card in the same manner as Syphon Flesh. A 4 drop that makes only 2 tokens is usually a waste over many other ways to use the mana. Not Included
Creatures
Cemetery Reaper: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Primarily used for his Lord ability, he also gives a bit of graveyard hate being able to remove things like Eldrazi at instant speed as they hit the yard and make a token. Included
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder: Making tokens whenever I cast a creature, Sahr Thrulls are there to be sac'd ASAP to keep him in the field. And though several creature kill him upon casting, there is enough ways for black to take him out of the grave yard. Included
Grave Titan: Zombie token generator. Auto take. Included
Havengul Runebinder: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While it can boost all of my zombies on the field, it does so my exiling a creature from my own graveyard to do so. So it's slow as is being reliant on my own graveyard having a creature, but also in that I need a creature I don't want to bring back. In addition, it boosts via +1/+1 counters instead of a base effect which kills Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's recursion. Not Included
Lich Lord of Unx: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While he has a mill and life loss ability, Unx is in the deck to make tokens each turn. I don't think I've ever used his second ability, though I usually get 4+ tokens out of him before he gets killed. Included
Liliana's Reaver: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Much like the Swords of X and Y as well as Ashling, Liliana's reaver token generating is reliant on dealing combat damage to a player. It's inconsistent at best. Not Included
Undead Alchemist: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While the card is pure opponent graveyard hate, the shift from damage to mill nerfs the ability for the deck to keep up the aggro. Yes the tokens can be generated for a turn or so before sacing Alchemist, but that turns a turn where Thrax may deal 10+ damage into maybe getting an unknown but low number of tokens. Not Included
1 Bitterblossom
1 Elemental Mastery
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Goblin Assault
1 Army of the Damned
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Grave Titan
1 Lich Lord of Unx
1 Tombstone Stairwell
[SIZE="4"]Question[/SIZE] Tombstone Stairwell. Unless I'm just missing something about this card, this card seems to assist my opponents too much.
Recurring creatures help to take the load off the token generators to have creature that I can sac again and again.
Gravecrawler: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] King of the recurring creatures and a zombie. Included
Bloodghast: A card that I've had very poor results with. While it can come into play for free if I drop a land, there is that if I drop a land aspect to it. If I'm looking to sac the creature immediately after it comes back into play, that land drop doesn't help me at all in the mid or late with Bloodghast. Not Included
Nether Traitor: Another card I have used in the past that was simply "ok". However in past builds there was less emphasis on self sacrifice where the ability to put Nether into play for just B makes it potentially more potent. Unsure to Add/Needs Testing
Reassembling Skeleton: The common of these creatures, I've often found this card to be much more consistent over Bloodghast, with the card being able to be put in play multiple times a turn. Included
Mortus Strider: The more expensive of the group, Strider returns to the hand instead of hitting the graveyard. While it combo's well with Endrek Sahr, it unfortunately is too expensive to be used as much as any of the other cards here. Not Included
1 Reassembling Skeleton
[SIZE="3"]Graveyard Return[/SIZE]
Permanents
Grimoire of the Dead: Liliana Vess's ultimate ability with the addition of turning then into zombies. Taking at least 3 turns to go off on top of discarding, I've found in the past that it was slow and I'd rather play most cards than drop then into my graveyard. Not Included
Haunted Crossroads: Being able to en mass put creature back into my library does have a nice tone to it, but without a stable draw card in play, it's a dead draw in most circumstances, and nothing would be more infuriating than finding out one put cards over a mass graveyard return card. Not Included
Oversold Cemetery: I've tried using this card in the past several times. It came down to not consistently having 4+ cards in my graveyard except after a board wipe and when I did have the 4+ I found it far too slow and just would prefer a mass recursion like Living Death or Zombie Apocalypse. Not Included
Shade's Form: A dual purposed card that both gives a shade effect as well as False Demise. Having been very useful in saving cards against Wrath effects and removal, as well as giving cards large boosts in strength after attacking. Included
Unholy Grotto: Volrath's Stronghold for Zombies. And being a land does not take up an unfilled slot. Included
Volrath's Stronghold: A staple of many black decks with the ability to put creatures on top of the library, taking a land slot leaves space for other spells. Included
Sorceries
Beacon of Unrest: Repeatable usage out of the card as it shuffles back into the library, it also returns artifacts as well as targets opponents' graveyards. Included
Ghoulcaller's Chant: Costing only B to cast and returning 2 zombies to my hand is nice, but having it go to my hand rather than the boards is something to also consider. Given that I can do the Same thing repeatedly with Lord of the Undead, Chant is unneeded. Not Included
Living Death: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] Both a Wrath effect and a Recursion card, Living Death allows for the return of cards from the graveyard even with things such as Grafdigger Cage (which is another effect that has infected my meta). Despite helping opponents, getting around those effects are more important. Included
Patriarch's Bidding: Another mass return where players choose tribal. Since I am one of the only ones running tribal, this helps my opponents less. However, it's a card I don't yet have and need opinions on it. Unsure to Add
Victimize: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Yawgmoth's Will: Mass Graveyard recursion, Will is one of the only ways to get destroyed enchantment out of my yard. Included
Zombie Apocalypse: Mass Zombie return, and then destroying all humans. A nice side effect, it goes off every now and then to kill generals and creatures enough to be kept in. Included
Creatures
Balthor the Defiled: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] While being a zombie and being able to also mass return, the cost to do so on the turn needed is 7, and can only happen once. With things like Dralnu and Yawgmoth's Will, other spells have the ability to be played multiple times. Not Included
Crypt Champion: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] More so to be used as the only black Double Strike creature in the game, Champion also acts as a CMC < 3 Exhume enabling the return of many of the Zombies in the deck. On top of that, but having the 3 CMC limit keeps most heavy hitting creatures still in the graveyards of my opponents unlike Exhume. Unsure to Add
Havengul Lich: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] The ability to cast creatures from any graveyard for the surcharge of 1. Included
Hell's Caretaker: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Lord of the Undead: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] A Lord effect and being able to return zombies to my hand from my graveyard each turn. Included
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Both a Lord effect, a destroy Human effect, and Undying to keep creatures out of the graveyard. Included
Sheoldred, Whispering One: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep Permanents
1 Shade's Form
Soreceries
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Living Death
1 Victimize
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Zombie Apocalypse
1 Havengul Lich
1 Lord of the Undead
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Crypt Champion
Permanents
Attrition: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Repeatable Self Sacrifice Outlets
Sorceries
Dreadbore: The only spot removal that also can target planeswalkers, the chance of drawing this card when needed for that is so low that the ability to blow up planeswalkers will only be used in the rarest of occasions. Not Included
Shriekmaw: Not really a sorcery, but this card is only being used for 1 reason: it's Evoke. It gives both spot removal and a sacrifice to trigger several things in the deck. Included
Instants
Bone Splinters: As much as it fits in with the deck with a sacrificing cost, the need to have removal on the fly renders the card to expensive and useless after things after a board wipe which is when removal can be most needed, ad at that cost I can use Attrition for repeatability. Not Included
Crosis's Charm: Despite being the most expensive spot removal in the deck, Crosis's Charm is able to give me both Artifact removal (something the deck severely lacks) and card bounce which I've used to save cards in the past as well as remove things like Troned up commanders with regenerate. Included
Doom Blade: The staple of black removal since it's replacing of Terror. Unfortunately, the non-black leaves a fair amount of cards that Doom can't target. Not Included
Go for the Throat: The more versatile Doom Blade, GftT has a much greater range to target. Included
Murder: A more expensive Terminate without regenerate and an additional B. In a pinch the fact that this card costs more to cast can cost the tempo of the game and delay cards for another turn. Not Included
Terminate: The long standing best spot removal in the game. Included
Tragic Slip: Fantastic for removing indestructible creatures or with regenerate for only a single CMC, the only downside is having the Morbid cost which in this deck shouldn't be to difficult to do. Included
Victim of Night: I have used Victim for a while now, and have found it as an outstanding replacement for Doom blade. While it's use in standard was terrible due to the block it was released in being Zombie, Vampire, and Werewolf based, in EDH it's been very successful. As nearly all Zombies and Vampires are already black, I only lose out on being able to target Werewolves running this over Doom Blade. Holy insignificant creature type in the format Batman! Included
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Go for the Throat
1 Terminate
1 Tragic Slip
1 Victim of Night
Wrath effects and board wipes are a type of card I have very little experience with, as I have never had to use them in my 60 card decks over the years. Currently I've been using:
Living Death can count in a pinch, but it's more useful to return creatures.
[SIZE="3"]Really could use some advise on the better Wrath's to use. [/SIZE]
Permanents
Phryexian Arena: Very staple draw. Included
Skullclamp: [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Death Interactive
Underworld Connections: Essentially a 1: Pay 1 life, draw a card. The only part that is better than Arena is the fact that I can choose not to draw if life is low. Not Included
Sorceries
Demonic Tutor: Best tutor. Included
Diabolic Intent: Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Diabolic Tutor: The standard tutor, there are better cards to use. Not Included
Increasing Ambition: Having run it in the past, the flashback cost has rarely been used and the 5 is a bit much. Not Included
Creatures
Blood Scrivener: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Triggering only when I don't have cards in my hand, chances of having this at the right time are low.
Corpse Harvester: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] [SIZE="1"]Multiple Roles[/SIZE] See: Upkeep and Tap Sac Outlet
Graveborn Muse: [SIZE="1"]Zombie[/SIZE] Pretty much an accelerated Phyrexian Arena, being a creature Muse gives me a way to draw a large amount of cards then remove her from play so that I don't kill myself.
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Graveborn Muse
Adaptive Automaton: Not actually a Zombie until it comes into play, it still provides a lord effect. Included
Boneknitter: Although this card is outclassed my Zombie Master, Bonekitter's also been used extensively as a means of redundancy. Included
Coffin Queen: A form of creature theft. Having never played the card, I am unsure as to how well it would work in conjunction with my deck as in the past that path did not work well. Not Included
Death Baron: Lord Ability and Deathtouch to all other zombies. Included
Dralnu, Lich Lord: Although his ability to force me to sacrifice permanents may be problematic in some circumstances, for the most part it will help. And being able to give spells flashback is just dandy to. Included
Fatestitcher: Being able to untap Dralnu or lands such as Cabal Coffers or Crypt of Agadeem to double their effect. Included
Festering Goblin: As much as I love the little bugger, in the format he's not as good. Not Included
Gempalm Polluter: Comboing with cards like Unholy Grotto and Volrath's Stronghold, and to a lesser extent Lord of the Undead, being able to force players to lose life. Unfortunately, I've never had the card pack enough of a punch Not Included
Grave Defiler: For a while I rand Call to the Kindred, as this card acts much like that except to the hand and not to play. But what consistently happened was I would be forced to put cards on the bottom that could have worked very well with what I had in play that then went to waste. Not Included
Grixis Grimblade: Few Multicolored permanents. Not Included
Helldozer: Land destruction can be a pain and can shut down many decks. Included
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade: A bit nerfed in the format as Grandeur really make this card shine, the fact that I am running so many non swamp lands really hurts this guy. While Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth helps him greatly, I'm not sure that alone is enough to save taking him out. Usually Soulles One runs better. Not Included
Maalfeld Twins: Expensive and little reward in the death. Not Included
Nightscape Familiar: Despite being Grixis, the deck is mostly Black and this does little to assist that. Not Included
Noxious Ghoul: A potential board wipe that works well with mass graveyard return or getting rid of pesky small creatures. Included
Phyrexian Crusader: A great card if just for the first strike and the pro 2 colors. I wish it didn't have infect but oh well. Included
Pontiff of Blight: Granting all of my creatures Extort to offset the life costs of things like Phyrexian Arena? Included
Shepherd of Rot: Hitting everyone and being able to untap with Fatestitcher to hit them again. Included
Soulless One: Beefy Zombie that can grow. Included
Twisted Abomination: Big creature for late game, land fetch for early. Included
Undead Warchief: A lord that makes zombies bigger and easier to cast. Included
Withered Wretch: Graveyard hate, making Tombstone Stairwell very viable. Unsure to Add
Zombie Master: The first Zombie lord, the swampwalk works well with Urborg, though the main reason he is her is for the reanimation. Included
Zombie Trailblazer: While it can work well at making zombies unblockable or shutting down lands for opponents, Contamination and Zombe Master work better. Not Included
1 Boneknitter
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
1 Death Baron
1 Fatestitcher
1 Helldozer
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Pontiff of Blight
1 Shepherd of Rot
1 Soulless One
1 Undead Warchief
1 Zombie Master
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-born
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Phyrexian Ghoul
1 Deathbringer Thoctar
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Venegful Dead
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Lich Lord of Unx
1 Gravecrawler
1 Havengul Lich
1 Lord of the Undead
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Graveborn Muse
Zombie Tribal cards are just that: cards that interact with zombies.
Door of Destinies: While a bit slow, Door gives the ability to really strengthen Zombies. The primary downside is it does nothing when it hits the field, and if drawn in a late game, it's fairly useless. Unsure to Add
Rooftop Storm: Belongs in every non mono black Zombie Deck. Included
Urza's Incubator: While Rooftop is my big way at getting zombies out, it's one of the first things to be be targeted for destruction. Incubator also drops earlier and acts somewht as a mana rock. Included
1 Urza's Incubator
1 Door of Destinies
[SIZE="3"]Question[/SIZE]: How has Door of Destinies worked with people in the past?
A final mix of powerful cards and cards that have a place in most if not all EDH decks.
Neowalkers
Liliana Vess: Being able to tutor twice is the big one. Second is her ultimate which steals everything in graveyards. Included
Nicol Bolas: Bolas is Bolas. He's a really big and scary card to drop as usually it makes any politics shift against me. Played at the right time he can make a big footprint in the game. Included
Sorin Markov: Is his -3 ability dickish? Yes. Do people hate him? Yes. Is he worth the slot? He has been in the past repeatedly. Included
Equipment
Batterskull: Hard to destroy, a chump creature to sac and boosts whatever I equip it to. Included
Lightning Greaves: More for the cheap protection. Included
Swiftfoot Boots: Cheap protection. Included
Whispersilk Cloak : Shroud and Unblockable. This card has made Thrax a killer in the past. Included
Umezawa's Jitte & Sensei's Divining Top: I have yet to aquire these card into my collection and don't feel quite like spending on them, so for now: Not Included
Sorceries
Bribery: The last card from when the deck had an aspect of stealing creatures, Bribery has been too good to take out. Every time I draw it I get happy because it means that I'll probably get a Blightsteel or Eldrazi. Included
Exsanguinate: A nice life gain in multiplayer games. Included
Sadistic Sacrament Being able to remove a few known problem cards from a person's deck can shut down a few hard combos. The ability to gut someone's deck of useful cards makes the kicker cost worth it. Included
Profane Command: Tons of uses. Included
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Sorin Markov
1 Batterskull
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Bribery
1 Exsanguinate
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Profane Command
1 Phyrexian Obliterator
Current Updated Card List
Questions Still to be Answered:
To much Spot Removal:
-Noxious Ghoul: Never really worked well enough for me in the past with the deck.
-Profane Command: No matter what I want to do with the card, there are other cards in the deck that do it better and cheaper.
-Phyrexian Ghoul: Nantuko Husk is the same card
-Boneknitter: Zombie Master delivers better.
-Sadistic Sacrament: As much fun as this card is, it doesn't fit in with the deck.
+Barter in Blood
+Innocent Blood
+Geth's Verdict
-Helldozer: Contamination shut's down boards, and Helldozer draws too much hate.
-Shepherd of Rot: Will kill me too fast if I have things such as Phyrexian Arena or Graveborn Muse or Bitterblossom out.
Total number of added cards: 120
Total number of questioned slots:
Needed to drop: 20
Coming Soon. Mana base being last to suit the final deck.
Is this Voltron where you're trying to get to your endgame with general damage? Are you a combo deck that's using thraximundar as a plan B?
Are you a pure control deck with tons of removal and counters and thraximundar serves as a finisher?
These are some example questions you should ask yourself first before moving on to card selection, because each strategy is going to want different of amounts of certain things, and each strategy is going to want totally different support in the 99.
Hope this helps
That was addressed in the first section of the first post. I've already listed the ideas what I structured the deck around.
My apologies, i guess i didn't read the fine print. So you're essentially wanting to make thraximundar Stax?
There are a ton of Thraximundar stax threads that can spark some ideas outside of the cards you listed. Google it!
It's Thrax Stax/control, but also Zombie Tribal (mostly), and finding the balance between the 2.
If I were making strait Thrax Stax, it would be easy as all I would be doing is focusing on stax abilities.
It's not that I'm lazy and don't want to finish, I've got several questions in my first post that I'm looking to be answered before I can move forward.
I didn't imply that you are. I was just saying that I like the idea.
I had looked at that but due to already knowing I was already over the card limit and that I can't sacrifice more than once a turn with it, I took Skullclamp and Graveborn Muse over Dais.
khabal ghoul looks like it could grow fast with the sac theme (even though the original card type was ghoul it is listed as zombie)
Lifebane zombie with recursion it can be card advantage
Nightscape Master bounce effects can abuse opposing commanders or ETB effects (also changed to zombie on gatherer)
Right Now I've already selected the cards that may go into the deck. All I'm looking into now it advice in the questions asked and cutting the excess cards.
Still looking for advise.
Yeah I've been stuck on tweaking this deck for a few months now and am trying to be over detailed to make it easier for people to help. Instead it's been all TL;DR
Damnation right now is a little bit out of the price range at the moment and is being filled by Blasphemous Act. In the event I get Damnation it will be replacing that. I really like Decree of Pain, I'm just not sure what to replace for it.
Barter in Blood has been getting resounding applause so I will put that in over Consuming Vapors.
Innocent Blood over Smallpox due to the more versatile drop ability
Geth's Verdict over Devour Flesh.
Updated the cut list.
I'll add my 2cents on this one. Literally the only buffer worth it is blade of the bloodchief as it acts like a localised doubling season for thrax! and even then there might be better options.
The auras are raw card disadvantage in a deck like this, your looking for sac outlets that do something on their own without thrax, none of those do that particularly well. If you want to go the voltron route there are better options out there.
As for tombstone stairwell... The sheer number of tokens this spits out is pretty insane. Add in the fact that you are built to abuse them with sacrifice means this is probably your best way to pump thrax. Add in vicious shadows and you're golden.