I've found that this deck does best when a group hug player is present, preferably right before you in the turn order.
A surprising number of Karona lists were showing up on the forums recently, so I wanted to be cool like everyone else. Ok, not really. I've been contemplating posting this for a while. I've had the deck for a number of years and it seemed like time to share.
Disclaimer: This is not a friend-maker.
It is semi-budget. Not a single Dual, Shock, or Fetch land in the list but there are some other expensive cards (only 7 at $20+ by my count) running around. Only 3 of the lands need to cost over $5, but more than half the lands ended up in foil or something else nice and most of the mana-facts got some pimp factor too.
Why Karona?
She's non-threatening as a general and thus, not usually taken seriously
5-color
She's extremely misleading about the focus of the deck
WTF Factor
Trollol lol lol lol
For me this choice here was not arbitrary, I was looking for a 5-color General which would not make people panic as I got close to being able to cast it (ie the exact opposite of Progenitus which was the original general).
Why not Karona?
You don't like the beer of similar name
5-color is too expensive/complicated for you (this deck isn't very expensive for EDH)
She IS kinda fugly
You like to play your general
Why this deck? (this deck does not ever intend to cast it's general.)
Someone needs to be taught a lesson
Weird for the sake of weird
You wanna dominate a table
You're tired of general reliant decks
To see if it would work
You like the WTF factor
You think it's funny to go through so much effort to land an Eldrazi quickly, only to kill it yourself.
You like complex rules interactions.
You like the Troll-factor of it
To prove that a 5-color manabase doesn't have to be super expensive
Attacking is SO last year
Why not this deck?
You want to preserve your friendships
You're trying to make new friends
It's pretty weird
Your playgroup dislikes fortress-prison decks
You like to actually use your general
You don't have a solid grasp of the Comprehensive Rule Book (seriously, a judge may be required for some Humility interactions, depending on rules knowledge of your victims)
You hate explaining the rules
You like throwing money at decks
You like attacking FTW
You don't like a Me vs the World scenario
You don't like prison-fortress decks
This deck started out as someone else's EDH I saw under construction in a local game shop (K-Oh, I mean you). He didn't like some of my suggestions for synergies, so I decided to build a similar deck of my own and see how far it could go. The original General was Progenitus, but I quickly found that everyone got into a panic as soon as I got close to dub-WUBRG. I suppose the alarming speed at which I could do that might have played a role, but it wasn't the point of the deck (point of fact, I had only won maybe 1 game out of something like 15 via general damage before making the switch). After a quick search on Gatherer for 5-color legends, I found Karona and immediately put it on my trade list. To date, I've played her twice, both as a joke.
Originally my 1 creature of choice was Emrakul, the An*s Torn, but I had to find a replacement after the banning. I knew it had to be a legendary Eldrazi (for the reshuffle effect), but also killable, so that left Kozilek. I used to run more Hondens, and some different mana rocks (the Alara Obelisks cuz I had a foil cycle of them)
I'm most proud of the fact that the deck can be a functional 5C monster with a budget manabase. Out of 39 lands, only 3 of them cost over $5 and only 1 cannot be easily substituted for budget friendly options. Serra's Sanctum is nice to have, but completely unnecessary.
I hear people like to read about the mind behind the deck. I suppose that's fair. Welcome to my world. I got into Magic back in '97, quit around 2000, and picked it up again in early 2007. Currently, I'm a bored IT guy in training with little else to do, so I thought I'd unleash one of my creations on the world and see what kind of response I got. I have a mind drawn to combos and am not afraid of 5 and 6 card combos in EDH. Like my sig says, I'm mostly "Spike" by this point, but I still have a strong dose of "Johnny" in me. At my old game store (I had to change stores cuz of the new job) I was frequently asked for advice and opinions on cards, then accused of being rude when I inform them that the card is generally no good.
I haven't been able to nerf an EDH (build or modify) yet despite several attempts, guess I'm just too competitive. I like to plan for contingencies. Most of my decks have at least 1 or 2 answers to any giving problem... except one. In that way I build a small weakness into each EDH (Like Hephaestus of Greek mythology). I dislike loaning out my EDH decks because they are mostly combo machines, so very few people are able to learn to play them effectively on such short notice.
Plan B:
Drop Oath of Druids
Mill most of your deck, get Kozilek
Watch noobs go from amusement to confusion to panic
Cast Regrowth/Mystic Retrieval if needed
Cast Replenish/Open the Vaults
Get full lock (hopefully)
Sometimes this takes a couple of tries to get everything you need in the bin (that's why I wanted a killable legendary Eldrazi). You can always go Oathing for a second creature if you'll have the appropriate mana up after land drop. You'll mill out, but Legacy Weapon saves you (unless it's not in the deck of course) by becoming your last draw. Then you use Mystic Retrieval/Regrowth to recur Replenish/Open the Vaults FTW. Kozilek dies to Humility/Night of Souls' Betrayal, and triggers his reshuffle ability (yes, this one does work, since it's a "Goes to the graveyard from anywhere" trigger, which is a zone Humility doesn't touch.
Plan C:
Use one or several of various board control elements to screw everyone else up until you can maneuver into a victory.
Plan D (I very rarely resort to this):
Drop Oath of Druids
Get Kozilek
Watch everyone panic
Smash face
Revel in the chaos
As you can see, the above 3 cards create a nearly unbreakable lock. Dovescape turns off all non-creature spells, making them into swarms of birds. Humility turns off all creature abilities, and Night then turns them off completely by making them 0/0s and kinda dead.
I've devoted slots in the deck to answering what they cannot. Privileged Position and Sterling Grove will stop almost anything targeted. Damping Matrix, Oblivion Ring, Wasteland, and Strip Mine lock it down pretty tight.
Ok, I got a lock, but now what?:
Primary Win: Baneful Omen
Killing all opponents in range at once. Soothsaying/Top manipulates library to speed up the clock.
Secondary Win: The two man-lands. Lavaclaw Reaches and Raging Ravine. They become viable creatures despite Humility because the animation ability is applied after Humility in the same layer. They do suffer from Night of Souls' Betrayal, but that's 1 point you don't care about and not much will be blocking or removing them.
Side note: Multiple activations of Raging Ravine allow it to gather several counters per swing.
Tertiary Win: Tezzeret's Ultimate, if Tezzeret is out before establishing lock (or on 5+ post-wrath). We have 29 artifacts which will become 5/5s upon activation of Tezzeret's ult (ignores Humility but will suffer from Night if present). That should be sufficient to kill a few players at a time.
Quaternary: Try to avoid this one.
Wait for them to mill out or scoop. You're not gonna mill cuz you got Kozilek floating around in your deck so just wait for max hand size and discard.
If you decide to take up this deck, just try looking all innocent and non-threatening after winning with it a few times. Eventually you're going to run into some silver bullets by accident or design.
Uncounterable enchantment sweepers (post-lock)
I've yet to see someone do this. The only way to actually pull it off is Boseiju + a Tranquility effect (Austere Command, Akroma's Vengeance, and now Merciless Eviction are the likely candidates). It gets tricky when opponents can barely tutor for either card. Plus Boseiju should be killed on sight.
Uncounterable Life Lose/Burn (post lock)
These will get through Dovescape, but gaining 4-12 life off Honden of Cleansing Fire a turn usually screws that plan over. If that doesn't trip them up Solitary Confinement stops Banefire and friends. A Boseiju-powered Exsanguinate or similar will do some damage, but killing Boseiju before they can use it is always a wise policy. I Wasteland them with extreme prejudice.
Bin Hate (pre-lock)
This one is one of the major weakness left in the deck, but it usually has to be instant speed (Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's Crypt, etc) or continuous (Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, Planar Void, etc) and the exile type to work on it's own. This really only screws plan B over. Still have Plans A, C, D, and E to fall back on. If you suspect one, change plans.
Not-a-Spell Spells (post-lock)
You know, those spell-like triggered abilities that do interesting things. Usually attached to cycling cards, but occasionally appear on other stuff.
The ones to worry about are Ulamog's casting trigger (a Vindicate) and Resounding Wave's cycling trigger (a double Boomerang) Sterling Grove/Privileged Position stops both of these. Cycling Decree of Annihilation also prevents both of these pretty effectively.
Hate Bears: Gaddock Teeg and Aven Mindcensor in particular can screw this up. I've never seen The Bird. Teeg has shown up only once in over 3 years, but that's no excuse to not be prepared. Oblivion Ring and Barbarian Ring (heh both are rings) answer these, but the bird prevents tutoring, so this could get ugly.
Fast Focused Aggro (pre-lock):
Grab one of the wrath effects/Humility/Solitary Confinement and cast it, or just return fire with Kozilek. Sphere of Safety works pretty good here too. Gets progressively more difficult with more players ganging up though.
Some cards I'm thinking of/thought about adding Collective Restraint - Another good anti-aggro card, but I think I'm covered with my current anti-aggro package. Impending Disaster - Armageddon I can tutor, interesting Mana Crypt - Always wanted one of these don't have one... Yet Grim Monolith - Fast mana good, but room is tight Torpor Orb - I like this one as partial sub for Humility, but again room is tight Leyline of Sanctity - Redundancy for the Shroud aspect of Solitary Confinement. I've rarely needed this effect since I've never been Fireballed (it seems nobody in my meta runs the uncounterable variants). Props go to Beware for suggesting this Glacial Chasm - Screw over fast aggro and buy time. Good idea. Props to Beware again Dueling Grounds - This one is interesting. It will completely nerf swarm-type aggro strategies. Combined with Maze of Ith or Kor Haven, it stops almost everything an opponent can field (damn you shroud/hexproof!). Kudos to Coffee Vampire for suggesting this.
But why not X? Form of the Dragon - Inefficient in EDH in general and multi-player in particular Pyrexian Arena - The life loss can matter in the aggro matches and very few ways to gain it back. Plus Honden is in one of my main colors and doesn't double-ding me with Paradox Haze or stress my mana as much with the BB Greater Auramancy - Sterling Grove serves and an impromptu tutor, and troll shroud is just better. The lower cost rarely matters as I don't tend to cast most of my enchantments in general, and this group in particular. Ivory Mask/Imperial Mask/etc - Solitary Confinement has always been enough for me, though it's meta dependant. Moat - Don't have one and I find Night more effective with Humility. It is more effective alone, but this is a combo-control deck. Mirror-Mad Phantasm - This one was a tough call. I like the fact that it can be hard cast and the built in Oath-esque ability is tempting. But it's quite fragile and it doesn't reshuffle my library when it dies. I've found that this deck frequently comes VERY close to decking itself when Oathing.
So what say you people? I've been tinkering with this deck for years now, and I have a reason and purpose for every card in the list. I'm looking for some ideas while still keeping the overall strategy the same. And I want to keep the manabase budget-ish. That would be the first point of improvement to making this thing truly competitive, but it's not the goal of the deck (plus my duals and fetches are tied up in my other 5C EDH). I'm sure someone out there can spot something I've missed/ignored.
More sections/decks to come depending on interest and response.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I'm confused how you actually win the game or how you ever beat a resolved Gaddock Teeg or Stony Silence. Enduring Ideal is cute, but it is excruciatingly slow in this build.
EDIT: I'm wondering how my deck would interact with yours. You run enough mana rocks to avoid my MLD, and I don't really have removal for your enchantments. Boseiju + Austere command is my only out, and you've got Wasteland/Strip Mine.
I'm going to have to edit my deck a little and see if I can come up with more outs.
EDIT2: Adding in Forbid. It, plus tutoring for RIP with Zur kind of shuts you out. I'll just have to play cautiously and stop you from resolving Dovescape. You have no way of making your enchantments uncounterable and no countermagic of your own.
So what if your opponent has countermagic? Do you have any plan to deal with tempo or disruption? Doesn't seem like you can filter either and you have a high mana density. Even for multiplayer EDH that doesn't seem like the best plan, maybe some sort of defensive measures.
I'm confused how you actually win the game or how you ever beat a resolved Gaddock Teeg or Stony Silence. Enduring Ideal is cute, but it is excruciatingly slow in this build.
Teeg has never come up, but Oblivion Ring springs to mind to deal with it, I do run a LOT of tutoring. Stony Silence has also never appeared, but it would only slow me down for Plan A. I listed the main win cons in the post already. Tezzert ult, Baneful Omen, Manlands.
EDIT: I'm wondering how my deck would interact with yours. You run enough mana rocks to avoid my MLD, and I don't really have removal for your enchantments. Boseiju + Austere command is my only out, and you've got Wasteland/Strip Mine.
I'm going to have to edit my deck a little and see if I can come up with more outs.
EDIT2: Adding in Forbid. It, plus tutoring for RIP with Zur kind of shuts you out. I'll just have to play cautiously and stop you from resolving Dovescape. You have no way of making your enchantments uncounterable and no countermagic of your own.
EDIT3: Might add in Merciless Eviction, too.
I welcome the challenge, but I can't put a name/face to your handle. I may need a little help on this one. If you wanna face this one, challenge me to EDH and when I ask you to pick a number, pick 1 higher than my range. Or just request Karona.
So what if your opponent has countermagic? Do you have any plan to deal with tempo or disruption? Doesn't seem like you can filter either and you have a high mana density. Even for multiplayer EDH that doesn't seem like the best plan, maybe some sort of defensive measures.
Boseiju says sup to countermagic and before you threaten to counter my tutors, I would refer you to Tolaria West. This is not primarily for 1v1 play, though it has shown to be quite capable.
Tempo disruption is not a problem most of the time since I'm not playing traditional threats. You can't unsummon my creatures, I don't have any. Granted bouncing my enchantments might hurt, but I do have exploitable interactions.
Targetted discard could be a problem, but again, I've never been the focus of enough targetted discard to make the difference. I've recovered from a duress, but a followup thoughtseize would have probably wrecked me. Maybe I'll have to add a ivory mask cousin.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
You have a singular answer for all these threats. If you Oblivion Ring a Teeg, do you expect the other player to never have their own O-Ring? Boseiju is your only answer to counter magic, does no one in your playgroup even play Strip Mine? This whole deck is just unbelievably glassy.
Boseiju is your only answer to counter magic, does no one in your playgroup even play Strip Mine?
Come to think of it, no. I don't recall being hit with that. It's weird because I run it every one of my non-french lists except for Animar.
I don't recall the part where I said this deck was undefeated or unbeatable. I posted this deck for two reasons:
1) I know there are holes in the deck, I'd like to find and close them
2) I wanted to share, for some silly reason. It's a pet deck
So would you like to continue berating me for my oversight, or can we move on to constructive criticism?
Got it, Teeg wrecks the deck, and in the few cases where I play 1v1 against heavy countermagic I'm screwed, for now. What answers do you suggest?
Though in my defense, heavy countermagic is not usually a problem in multi-player.
So far, the holes mentioned are:
1) Gaddock Teeg
only out is O-Ring
should I find room for Detention Sphere?
Bring back Planar Collapse?
2) Heavy countermagic
only out is currently Boseiju
perhaps I should dig up City of Solitude?
3) targeted/heavy/random discard
only out is Solitary
would more "I have shroud/hexproof" effects be in order?
So, without adding more creatures...
What did I miss for answers to the above, and what holes haven't been brought up?
I know this is not my strongest deck. However, it IS my most feared/hated EDH where I hang out because few people know how to beat it consistently. Evidently I've been under-representing the weaknesses. I guess my meta is less competitive when it comes to EDH.
My random thought of the moment:
There are two errors in the the sentence you have just read.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
How much more constructive would you like me to get? You are clearly entirely aware of what needs to be added based on the flaws I pointed out. I'm not here to tell you how to build your deck, I'm here to tell you what things it needs, not the specific cards. You have ideas, you stated them yourself. Now go test them.
I won't tell you what to cut or what to add, but here are some options to give you some direction:
[cards]Rule of Law, Gaddock Teeg, Regrowth, City of Solitude, Creeping Renaissance, Swords to Plowshares, Repeal, Wear//Tear, Leyline of Sanctity, Glacial Chasm[/card]
How much more constructive would you like me to get? You are clearly entirely aware of what needs to be added based on the flaws I pointed out. I'm not here to tell you how to build your deck, I'm here to tell you what things it needs, not the specific cards. You have ideas, you stated them yourself. Now go test them.
I won't tell you what to cut or what to add, but here are some options to give you some direction:
[cards]Rule of Law, Gaddock Teeg, Regrowth, City of Solitude, Creeping Renaissance, Swords to Plowshares, Repeal, Wear//Tear, Leyline of Sanctity, Glacial Chasm[/card]
Ok thanks.
Regrowth, check
Further possible answers to Teeg: StP PtE Deathmark - a bit narrow, but also smacks down Iona
Further possible answers to O-Ring/Stoney Silence/Null Rod Repeal - I'd prefer something that answers more things more permanently... like Vindicate - I like everything about this card except for the price tag and sorcery speed... maybe Beast Within - now here's an idea. Instant speed, kills anything, negligible down side. Hull Breach - I like this better, but green is less plentiful in the deck Wear/Tear - hmm, maybe worth considering over above
Further possible answers to flavors of discard and deck rape: Leyline of Sanctity - Best of the "I have Shroud/Hexproof" effects I'm not running, ty ty.
Further possible answers to countermagic Defense Grid
Possible answers to fast focussed aggro: Glacial Chasm
Not sure what Rule of Law and Gaddock Teeg are supposed to answer. Teeg kicks me in the nuts as was already discussed. Rule of Law doesn't stop countermagic and can trip me up on Plan B.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
The basic problem is your deck is simply a glass cannon. It's the way it works. That said, it's hardly a cannon because it operates on such an excruciatingly slow set of win conditions. Having backup plans for things this deck hates is nice, but it can still get crushed by any deck with a clock. Maze's End might actually be a playable card here. It's still slow as molasses, but probably still faster than what's going on, can be used through Epic, and fixes your budget mana base. Oh and it doesn't change anything about the way your deck plays.
it's hardly a cannon because it operates on such an excruciatingly slow set of win conditions.
I wouldn't exactly call this a cannon either, you're right, Plan A (Enduring Ideal) is a slow kill, but I think we're counting differently. If I'm right, you're counting start of chain to death of last opponent and clocking it at 12-15 turns. It's not inaccurate, but I'm counting from start of chain to full lock, a significantly shorter period. Full lock is 2-3 turns depending on if I have my Paradox Haze out vs decide to get it. At that point my opponents can only do a very limited list of things and can barely help each other do it (unless they have Spectral Searchlight or Candelabra of Tawnos, never seen this happen). From there, I have another optional 1-2 turns to fetch the protection (Sterling Grove and Privileged Position) and 4+ turns for a Baneful Omen kill.
There's a reason I warned of this not being a friend maker. Seven turns of unable to do anything will piss anyone off.
Maze's End might actually be a playable card here. It's still slow as molasses, but probably still faster than what's going on, can be used through Epic, and fixes your budget mana base. Oh and it doesn't change anything about the way your deck plays.
As far as Maze's End goes, I'm not a fan. It would require 11 land slots, plus Scapeshift and land ramp to do intelligently I'm not willing to cut all my basics only to be wrecked by Ruination. That's a pretty big redesign. It sounds more like another deck idea.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I'm not counting it as 12-15, it's simply too slow and transparent of a win condition as is. I really think you should look at Maze's End. Is it slow? Yes. Does it require you to redo your mana base? Yes. But it wins through every one of the permanents that you have trouble dealing with and allows you to not lose if your Epic chain gets interrupted. It won't change the way the deck plays whatsoever and needs no addition cards to make playable. You don't focus on it, it becomes your backup plan.
- Crystal Quarry - Weakest land, rarely used. It was either this or a mountain.
+ Barbarian Ring - to answer Teeg and other hate bears
I was thinking of Grip of Chaos to replace Sterling Grove and Privileged Position. Then it occurred to me that it would screw me over too for removing certain problematic cards in an Oath / Replenish scenario where I'm bringing back O-Ring. Particularly if it's an Aura Shards that I need to take out, since enough random shots will eventually hit something important. So I think I'll pass on this change.
Does anyone have any suggestions for further cuts to add more silver bullets?
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Hey dude, this is a VERY sweet deck. I think that if you want to try something new, Mirror-Mad Phantasm could give you some amusement. Activate it, mill a bunch of stuff, then get the sorcery you need with Mystic Retrieval, and boom you get all your enchantments (and/or artifacts) back! I ran this combo in standard for a few weeks in a Battle of Wits deck, only the wincon was Psychic Spiral instead of Replenish. It's really fun and hilarious!
Oh, and as for another suggestion that isn't as weird, Dueling Grounds could be something worth looking at. Combined with the Maze of Ith that you already have in the deck, it will let you take not so many damages. And it just says no to combos involving infinite creatures attacking you. And even by itself on the field, it will definitely save you some life loss.
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Current laser collection: 20 1000cc Ducati dualsport decks
Hey dude, this is a VERY sweet deck. I think that if you want to try something new, Mirror-Mad Phantasm could give you some amusement. Activate it, mill a bunch of stuff, then get the sorcery you need with Mystic Retrieval, and boom you get all your enchantments (and/or artifacts) back! I ran this combo in standard for a few weeks in a Battle of Wits deck, only the wincon was Psychic Spiral instead of Replenish. It's really fun and hilarious!
Oh, and as for another suggestion that isn't as weird, Dueling Grounds could be something worth looking at. Combined with the Maze of Ith that you already have in the deck, it will let you take not so many damages. And it just says no to combos involving infinite creatures attacking you. And even by itself on the field, it will definitely save you some life loss.
It had occurred to me that Mirror-Mad Phantasm might serve me well, but I didn't like how it was so fragile. If I were to hard cast it, I would require a BARE minimum of 7 mana (and probably not feel comfortable until I reached 9). However, the main reason I run Kozilek instead is one of survival. If I run down my library as I often do, I need a way to keep going after that point. Kozilek provides that since, when he dies, he reshuffles my bin. I didn't want to spend an additional slot on an otherwise useless enchantment to replace/skip my draws.
As for your second suggestion, I like it. I'm not sure how I missed that card since I have 2-3 copies floating around in my collection. I only ever attack with 1 or 2 guys anyway. I'll begin hunting for a card to cut.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Any development on this deck? I am interested in seeing how it would progress, given a few sets have come out since this last post. Jeskai Ascendancy looks interesting in here, as does Narset, Enlightened Master.
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A nearly creatureless EDH.
I've found that this deck does best when a group hug player is present, preferably right before you in the turn order.
A surprising number of Karona lists were showing up on the forums recently, so I wanted to be cool like everyone else. Ok, not really. I've been contemplating posting this for a while. I've had the deck for a number of years and it seemed like time to share.
Disclaimer: This is not a friend-maker.
It is semi-budget. Not a single Dual, Shock, or Fetch land in the list but there are some other expensive cards (only 7 at $20+ by my count) running around. Only 3 of the lands need to cost over $5, but more than half the lands ended up in foil or something else nice and most of the mana-facts got some pimp factor too.
Why Karona?
For me this choice here was not arbitrary, I was looking for a 5-color General which would not make people panic as I got close to being able to cast it (ie the exact opposite of Progenitus which was the original general).
Why not Karona?
Why this deck? (this deck does not ever intend to cast it's general.)
Why not this deck?
Originally my 1 creature of choice was Emrakul, the An*s Torn, but I had to find a replacement after the banning. I knew it had to be a legendary Eldrazi (for the reshuffle effect), but also killable, so that left Kozilek. I used to run more Hondens, and some different mana rocks (the Alara Obelisks cuz I had a foil cycle of them)
I'm most proud of the fact that the deck can be a functional 5C monster with a budget manabase. Out of 39 lands, only 3 of them cost over $5 and only 1 cannot be easily substituted for budget friendly options. Serra's Sanctum is nice to have, but completely unnecessary.
I haven't been able to nerf an EDH (build or modify) yet despite several attempts, guess I'm just too competitive. I like to plan for contingencies. Most of my decks have at least 1 or 2 answers to any giving problem... except one. In that way I build a small weakness into each EDH (Like Hephaestus of Greek mythology). I dislike loaning out my EDH decks because they are mostly combo machines, so very few people are able to learn to play them effectively on such short notice.
1 Karona, False God
Lands (38+1 Maze):
3 Plains (1 Saga foil 1 Euro, 1 Zen foil)
2 Island (1 Euro, 1 Zen foil)
2 Swamp (1 Euro, 1 Zen foil)
2 Mountain (1 Euro, 1 Zen foil)
2 Forest (1 Euro, 1 Zen foil)
1 Seaside Citadel (foil)
1 Arcane Sanctum (foil)
1 Crumbling Necropolis (foil)
1 Savage Lands (pack foil)
1 Jungle Shrine (foil)
1 Vivid Meadow (foil)
1 Vivid Creek (foil)
1 Vivid Marsh (foil)
1 Vivid Crag (foil)
1 Vivid Grove (foil)
1 Ancient Den
1 Seat of the Synod (foil)
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Great Furnace (foil)
1 Tree of Tales
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Raging Ravine (foil)
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Terramorphic Expanse (foil)
1 Evolving Wilds (foil)
1 Tolaria West
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Maze of Ith (The Dark)
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Mana-facts (16):
1 Sol Ring (FtV)
1 Basalt Monolith (Unl)
1 Azorius Signet
1 Boros Signet (foil)
1 Rakdos Signet (foil)
1 Selesnya Signet (foil)
1 Dimir Signet (foil)
1 Orzhov Signet (foil)
1 Izzet Signet (foil)
1 Darksteel Ingot (Arena foil)
1 Vessel of Endless Rest (foil)
1 Spectral Searchlight (foil)
1 Coalition Relic
1 Manalith (foil)
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Gilded Lotus (Mir)
Other Artifacts (8):
1 Voltaic Key (Saga cuz I hate the other art)
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Lux Cannon
1 Legacy Weapon (Apoc)
1 Crucible of Worlds (10th)
1 Damping Matrix (foil)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Planar Portal
Enchantments (15):
1 Humility
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Dovescape (foil)
1 Privileged Position (foil)
1 Sterling Grove
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Honden of Cleansing Fire (foil Japanese)
1 Honden of Seeing Winds (foil)
1 Honden of Night's Reach (foil)
1 Sphere of Safety (foil)
1 Oblivion Ring (Alara foil)
1 Oath of Druids
1 Paradox Haze (foil)
1 Baneful Omen (foil)
1 Soothsaying (foil)
1 Garruk Wildspeaker (Lor)
1 Tezzeret the Seeker (Alara foil)
Instants (3):
1 Vampiric Tutor (Vi)
1 Mystical Tutor (Mi)
1 Enlightened Tutor (Mi)
Sorceries (15):
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor (foil)
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Devastation
1 Obliterate
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Catastrophe
1 Armageddon
1 Death Cloud
1 Replenish
1 Open the Vaults (foil)
1 Mystic Retrieval (foil)
1 Regrowth
1 Enduring Ideal
WTF is this heap supposed to do?!
Drop Dovescape, Humility, and Night of Souls' Betrayal to lock the board down, then win off of various threats.
How to get the lock:
Plan A:
Ramp with mana-facts
Slam Enduring Ideal like a boss
Build your impenetrable fortress
Typical order is Dovescape, Humility, Night, Sterling Grove, Privileged Position but adaptation is important.
Plan B:
Drop Oath of Druids
Mill most of your deck, get Kozilek
Watch noobs go from amusement to confusion to panic
Cast Regrowth/Mystic Retrieval if needed
Cast Replenish/Open the Vaults
Get full lock (hopefully)
Sometimes this takes a couple of tries to get everything you need in the bin (that's why I wanted a killable legendary Eldrazi). You can always go Oathing for a second creature if you'll have the appropriate mana up after land drop. You'll mill out, but Legacy Weapon saves you (unless it's not in the deck of course) by becoming your last draw. Then you use Mystic Retrieval/Regrowth to recur Replenish/Open the Vaults FTW. Kozilek dies to Humility/Night of Souls' Betrayal, and triggers his reshuffle ability (yes, this one does work, since it's a "Goes to the graveyard from anywhere" trigger, which is a zone Humility doesn't touch.
Plan C:
Use one or several of various board control elements to screw everyone else up until you can maneuver into a victory.
Plan D (I very rarely resort to this):
Drop Oath of Druids
Get Kozilek
Watch everyone panic
Smash face
Revel in the chaos
Plan E (this almost never happens but it can, so I'll list it):
Go infinite with Rings/Monolith
Tutor everything with Planar Portal/Voltaic Key
Hardcast it all! Or just goof around since Rings + Monolith + Planar Portal is pretty much God Mode.
The Lock:
As you can see, the above 3 cards create a nearly unbreakable lock.
Dovescape turns off all non-creature spells, making them into swarms of birds. Humility turns off all creature abilities, and Night then turns them off completely by making them 0/0s and kinda dead.
I've devoted slots in the deck to answering what they cannot.
Privileged Position and Sterling Grove will stop almost anything targeted. Damping Matrix, Oblivion Ring, Wasteland, and Strip Mine lock it down pretty tight.
Five-six resolutions of Enduring Ideal with a Strip Mine/Wasteland/Doom Cannon/Death Star on standby can only be broken with a Crucible of Worlds recurring Boseiju (Legacy Weapon or Lux Cannon can stop this) leading into an Enchantment sweeper.
Alternate Locks:
Dovescape + Solitary Confinement + Honden of Seeing Winds
Less effective as it still allows the ever-popular creature abilities to run rampant. Still, it will save you in a pinch.
Solitary Confinement + Honden of Seeing Winds + Privileged Position + Sterling Grove
Soft Lock that lasts until they can get an appropriate sweeper to cast. One more reason why Dovescape is so important to the deck.
Safer against non-white, but watch out for Apocalypse (nearly unrecoverable, but mercifully rare and the down side is devastating), Pernicious Deed, O-Stone, and the Holy Hand Grenade
Ok, I got a lock, but now what?:
Primary Win: Baneful Omen
Killing all opponents in range at once.
Soothsaying/Top manipulates library to speed up the clock.
Secondary Win: The two man-lands.
Lavaclaw Reaches and Raging Ravine. They become viable creatures despite Humility because the animation ability is applied after Humility in the same layer. They do suffer from Night of Souls' Betrayal, but that's 1 point you don't care about and not much will be blocking or removing them.
Side note: Multiple activations of Raging Ravine allow it to gather several counters per swing.
Tertiary Win: Tezzeret's Ultimate, if Tezzeret is out before establishing lock (or on 5+ post-wrath). We have 29 artifacts which will become 5/5s upon activation of Tezzeret's ult (ignores Humility but will suffer from Night if present). That should be sufficient to kill a few players at a time.
Quaternary: Try to avoid this one.
Wait for them to mill out or scoop. You're not gonna mill cuz you got Kozilek floating around in your deck so just wait for max hand size and discard.
If you decide to take up this deck, just try looking all innocent and non-threatening after winning with it a few times. Eventually you're going to run into some silver bullets by accident or design.
Uncounterable enchantment sweepers (post-lock)
I've yet to see someone do this. The only way to actually pull it off is Boseiju + a Tranquility effect (Austere Command, Akroma's Vengeance, and now Merciless Eviction are the likely candidates). It gets tricky when opponents can barely tutor for either card. Plus Boseiju should be killed on sight.
Uncounterable Life Lose/Burn (post lock)
These will get through Dovescape, but gaining 4-12 life off Honden of Cleansing Fire a turn usually screws that plan over. If that doesn't trip them up Solitary Confinement stops Banefire and friends. A Boseiju-powered Exsanguinate or similar will do some damage, but killing Boseiju before they can use it is always a wise policy. I Wasteland them with extreme prejudice.
Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, Pernicious Deed, Lux Cannon, Legacy Weapon, Aura Shards, etc (played pre-lock, activated afterwards)
These can be seen these coming. Generally I will handle it before attempting Enduring Ideal, but Replenish/Open the Vaults usually avoids this problem.
Sterling Grove + Privileged Position stop all the point removal abilities, Damping Matrix stops Disk, O-Stone, Doom Cannon, and Death Star. Deed or Aura Shards can eat O-Ring.
With Deed, it's best to attempt to time it for when they are tapped out.
Likewise for Aura Shards, lest they have a creature with flash, though this is less worrisome.
Sad Sac/Jester's Cap et al. Aka deck rape (pre-lock)
This one is only slightly worrisome. The right 3 cards removed from the deck might work. Probably the strongest choices are Humility, Dovescape, and Solitary Confinement. That said, Dovescape and Solitary Confinement also stop it.
Bin Hate (pre-lock)
This one is one of the major weakness left in the deck, but it usually has to be instant speed (Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's Crypt, etc) or continuous (Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, Planar Void, etc) and the exile type to work on it's own. This really only screws plan B over. Still have Plans A, C, D, and E to fall back on. If you suspect one, change plans.
Not-a-Spell Spells (post-lock)
You know, those spell-like triggered abilities that do interesting things. Usually attached to cycling cards, but occasionally appear on other stuff.
The ones to worry about are Ulamog's casting trigger (a Vindicate) and Resounding Wave's cycling trigger (a double Boomerang)
Sterling Grove/Privileged Position stops both of these. Cycling Decree of Annihilation also prevents both of these pretty effectively.
Hate Bears:
Gaddock Teeg and Aven Mindcensor in particular can screw this up. I've never seen The Bird. Teeg has shown up only once in over 3 years, but that's no excuse to not be prepared. Oblivion Ring and Barbarian Ring (heh both are rings) answer these, but the bird prevents tutoring, so this could get ugly.
Fast Focused Aggro (pre-lock):
Grab one of the wrath effects/Humility/Solitary Confinement and cast it, or just return fire with Kozilek. Sphere of Safety works pretty good here too. Gets progressively more difficult with more players ganging up though.
Honden of Infinite Rage - didn't do enough.
Honden of Life's Web - didn't do enough, tokens usually die anyway.
Planar Collapse - very handy to be able to Enduring Ideal a Wrath effect, but rarely necessary.
Jokulhaups - I like Devastation better since it doesn't kill my mana-facts
Phyrexian Lens - Replaced with Chromatic Lantern
The other 3 signets - a full 10 signets seemed a bit excessive, so I dropped 3 of the green ones since it's the least used color in the deck
Copy Enchantment - replaced by Paradox Haze. Often served as a second Privileged Position/Sterling Grove/Oblivion Ring/Baneful Omen, rarely copied anything else. I didn't like how it didn't interact well with Replenish/Open the Vaults (it can only copy stuff already on the board)
Rising Waters - I believe I dropped this one in favor of Mystic Retrieval
Reiterate - Cute when copying Enduring Ideal, but very few worth-while targets in the deck. I think Regrowth stole it's slot.
Mana Vault - I think this one went to make room for Basalt Monolith which enabled some of the more idiotic combos
Personal Tutor - dropped this one for Beseech the Queen, much better most of the time.
Crystal Quarry - Dropped to make room for Barbarian Ring Props to dr. Jizabel for the suggestion.
Some cards I'm thinking of/thought about adding
Collective Restraint - Another good anti-aggro card, but I think I'm covered with my current anti-aggro package.
Impending Disaster - Armageddon I can tutor, interesting
Mana Crypt - Always wanted one of these don't have one... Yet
Grim Monolith - Fast mana good, but room is tight
Torpor Orb - I like this one as partial sub for Humility, but again room is tight
Leyline of Sanctity - Redundancy for the Shroud aspect of Solitary Confinement. I've rarely needed this effect since I've never been Fireballed (it seems nobody in my meta runs the uncounterable variants). Props go to Beware for suggesting this
Glacial Chasm - Screw over fast aggro and buy time. Good idea. Props to Beware again
Dueling Grounds - This one is interesting. It will completely nerf swarm-type aggro strategies. Combined with Maze of Ith or Kor Haven, it stops almost everything an opponent can field (damn you shroud/hexproof!). Kudos to Coffee Vampire for suggesting this.
But why not X?
Form of the Dragon - Inefficient in EDH in general and multi-player in particular
Pyrexian Arena - The life loss can matter in the aggro matches and very few ways to gain it back. Plus Honden is in one of my main colors and doesn't double-ding me with Paradox Haze or stress my mana as much with the BB
Greater Auramancy - Sterling Grove serves and an impromptu tutor, and troll shroud is just better. The lower cost rarely matters as I don't tend to cast most of my enchantments in general, and this group in particular.
Ivory Mask/Imperial Mask/etc - Solitary Confinement has always been enough for me, though it's meta dependant.
Moat - Don't have one and I find Night more effective with Humility. It is more effective alone, but this is a combo-control deck.
Mirror-Mad Phantasm - This one was a tough call. I like the fact that it can be hard cast and the built in Oath-esque ability is tempting. But it's quite fragile and it doesn't reshuffle my library when it dies. I've found that this deck frequently comes VERY close to decking itself when Oathing.
So what say you people? I've been tinkering with this deck for years now, and I have a reason and purpose for every card in the list. I'm looking for some ideas while still keeping the overall strategy the same. And I want to keep the manabase budget-ish. That would be the first point of improvement to making this thing truly competitive, but it's not the goal of the deck (plus my duals and fetches are tied up in my other 5C EDH). I'm sure someone out there can spot something I've missed/ignored.
More sections/decks to come depending on interest and response.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
My Blog About It
EDIT: I'm wondering how my deck would interact with yours. You run enough mana rocks to avoid my MLD, and I don't really have removal for your enchantments. Boseiju + Austere command is my only out, and you've got Wasteland/Strip Mine.
I'm going to have to edit my deck a little and see if I can come up with more outs.
EDIT2: Adding in Forbid. It, plus tutoring for RIP with Zur kind of shuts you out. I'll just have to play cautiously and stop you from resolving Dovescape. You have no way of making your enchantments uncounterable and no countermagic of your own.
EDIT3: Might add in Merciless Eviction, too.
Teeg has never come up, but Oblivion Ring springs to mind to deal with it, I do run a LOT of tutoring. Stony Silence has also never appeared, but it would only slow me down for Plan A. I listed the main win cons in the post already. Tezzert ult, Baneful Omen, Manlands.
I welcome the challenge, but I can't put a name/face to your handle. I may need a little help on this one. If you wanna face this one, challenge me to EDH and when I ask you to pick a number, pick 1 higher than my range. Or just request Karona.
Boseiju says sup to countermagic and before you threaten to counter my tutors, I would refer you to Tolaria West. This is not primarily for 1v1 play, though it has shown to be quite capable.
Tempo disruption is not a problem most of the time since I'm not playing traditional threats. You can't unsummon my creatures, I don't have any. Granted bouncing my enchantments might hurt, but I do have exploitable interactions.
Targetted discard could be a problem, but again, I've never been the focus of enough targetted discard to make the difference. I've recovered from a duress, but a followup thoughtseize would have probably wrecked me. Maybe I'll have to add a ivory mask cousin.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
My Blog About It
Come to think of it, no. I don't recall being hit with that. It's weird because I run it every one of my non-french lists except for Animar.
I don't recall the part where I said this deck was undefeated or unbeatable. I posted this deck for two reasons:
1) I know there are holes in the deck, I'd like to find and close them
2) I wanted to share, for some silly reason. It's a pet deck
So would you like to continue berating me for my oversight, or can we move on to constructive criticism?
Got it, Teeg wrecks the deck, and in the few cases where I play 1v1 against heavy countermagic I'm screwed, for now. What answers do you suggest?
Though in my defense, heavy countermagic is not usually a problem in multi-player.
So far, the holes mentioned are:
1) Gaddock Teeg
only out is O-Ring
should I find room for Detention Sphere?
Bring back Planar Collapse?
2) Heavy countermagic
only out is currently Boseiju
perhaps I should dig up City of Solitude?
3) targeted/heavy/random discard
only out is Solitary
would more "I have shroud/hexproof" effects be in order?
So, without adding more creatures...
What did I miss for answers to the above, and what holes haven't been brought up?
I know this is not my strongest deck. However, it IS my most feared/hated EDH where I hang out because few people know how to beat it consistently. Evidently I've been under-representing the weaknesses. I guess my meta is less competitive when it comes to EDH.
My random thought of the moment:
There are two errors in the the sentence you have just read.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I won't tell you what to cut or what to add, but here are some options to give you some direction:
[cards]Rule of Law, Gaddock Teeg, Regrowth, City of Solitude, Creeping Renaissance, Swords to Plowshares, Repeal, Wear//Tear, Leyline of Sanctity, Glacial Chasm[/card]
My Blog About It
Ok thanks.
Regrowth, check
Further possible answers to Teeg:
StP
PtE
Deathmark - a bit narrow, but also smacks down Iona
Further possible answers to O-Ring/Stoney Silence/Null Rod
Repeal - I'd prefer something that answers more things more permanently... like
Vindicate - I like everything about this card except for the price tag and sorcery speed... maybe
Beast Within - now here's an idea. Instant speed, kills anything, negligible down side.
Hull Breach - I like this better, but green is less plentiful in the deck
Wear/Tear - hmm, maybe worth considering over above
Further possible answers to flavors of discard and deck rape:
Leyline of Sanctity - Best of the "I have Shroud/Hexproof" effects I'm not running, ty ty.
Further possible answers to countermagic
Defense Grid
Possible answers to fast focussed aggro:
Glacial Chasm
Not sure what Rule of Law and Gaddock Teeg are supposed to answer.
Teeg kicks me in the nuts as was already discussed.
Rule of Law doesn't stop countermagic and can trip me up on Plan B.
Creeping Renaissance is strictly weaker than Open the Vaults and Replenish, which I already run. I'm looking to dump my binned enchantments into play, not my hand.
Can anyone spot any holes, answers, or reasoning not already discussed?
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
My Blog About It
I wouldn't exactly call this a cannon either, you're right, Plan A (Enduring Ideal) is a slow kill, but I think we're counting differently. If I'm right, you're counting start of chain to death of last opponent and clocking it at 12-15 turns. It's not inaccurate, but I'm counting from start of chain to full lock, a significantly shorter period. Full lock is 2-3 turns depending on if I have my Paradox Haze out vs decide to get it. At that point my opponents can only do a very limited list of things and can barely help each other do it (unless they have Spectral Searchlight or Candelabra of Tawnos, never seen this happen). From there, I have another optional 1-2 turns to fetch the protection (Sterling Grove and Privileged Position) and 4+ turns for a Baneful Omen kill.
There's a reason I warned of this not being a friend maker. Seven turns of unable to do anything will piss anyone off.
As far as Maze's End goes, I'm not a fan. It would require 11 land slots, plus Scapeshift and land ramp to do intelligently I'm not willing to cut all my basics only to be wrecked by Ruination. That's a pretty big redesign. It sounds more like another deck idea.
Ooooh, good call, threshold should not be a problem for plan B, but it might stumble on plan A. I'll look into making room. TY
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
My Blog About It
- Crystal Quarry - Weakest land, rarely used. It was either this or a mountain.
+ Barbarian Ring - to answer Teeg and other hate bears
I was thinking of Grip of Chaos to replace Sterling Grove and Privileged Position. Then it occurred to me that it would screw me over too for removing certain problematic cards in an Oath / Replenish scenario where I'm bringing back O-Ring. Particularly if it's an Aura Shards that I need to take out, since enough random shots will eventually hit something important. So I think I'll pass on this change.
Does anyone have any suggestions for further cuts to add more silver bullets?
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Oh, and as for another suggestion that isn't as weird, Dueling Grounds could be something worth looking at. Combined with the Maze of Ith that you already have in the deck, it will let you take not so many damages. And it just says no to combos involving infinite creatures attacking you. And even by itself on the field, it will definitely save you some life loss.
It had occurred to me that Mirror-Mad Phantasm might serve me well, but I didn't like how it was so fragile. If I were to hard cast it, I would require a BARE minimum of 7 mana (and probably not feel comfortable until I reached 9). However, the main reason I run Kozilek instead is one of survival. If I run down my library as I often do, I need a way to keep going after that point. Kozilek provides that since, when he dies, he reshuffles my bin. I didn't want to spend an additional slot on an otherwise useless enchantment to replace/skip my draws.
As for your second suggestion, I like it. I'm not sure how I missed that card since I have 2-3 copies floating around in my collection. I only ever attack with 1 or 2 guys anyway. I'll begin hunting for a card to cut.
Thank you for the input! It's always appreciated.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."