I'm very keen on this Thraximundar commander deck I have been working on for now 2 years.
Honnestly loving it, and I thought I'd share it and maybe get a bit of help on optimizing a couple parameters [without breaking the bank].
Something special about it is that it's lately been merged with a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck to add-in an artifact sub-theme.
While I know it's light, it's still there, really adds to the flavor of the thing, and works flawlessly 95% of the time.
- Well, Im guessing I don't have to say that Thraximundar is a very mean machine. He's the main win-con we have, and people fear him for a reason.
- Earthquake, since I've included it in here, has been surprisingly enough a MVP very often and I would never look back. It doubles-up as a win-con, too, dealing the last couple of direct damage you need. Sometimes twice, given two turns and a Snapcaster Mage. While it also sweeps early on. And Oh, awesome art by Richard Kane Ferguson (4th ed.) Pet card.
Or that Baleful Strix packs I.N.S.A.N.E. Value, being an artifact, an I-block-anything-it-dies, and cantripping for a mere 2 mana?
- Now, I can hear you going: «Fatestitcher, really? :grumpy:»
Well, listen: it ramps, controls, unexpectedly undies to clear out the path for a Thraxi alpha strike, and, frankly... it's fun!
Now...
Games:
Most games play out like this: epic filtering, looting, and tutoring early-on to keep opponent at bay and/or stealing his threat by mid-game, then slowly grinding to totally overtake him with card advantage. Then Thraximundar came come out to put enormous pressure on him.
Control elements give us a variety of angles of attack: bouncing (tempo attack; 'cause who cares if you got a huge threat if I keep bouncing it back until you have to sacrifice it to Thrax?), a bit of MASS-hand disruption (please discard your hand, now), of counters and kill spells and a pletora of versatile artifacts I can tutor up for with both Tezz, and finally a bit of recursion. Even Thraxi himself is like an Edict spell. I mean, what's not to love?
Issues...
Well, I think the mana-base isn't exactly as reliable as I'd like it to be. And there's no way I can afford legacy duals, sorry. So what about the balance between mana-rocks and lands themselves?
And is this too many draw spells/engines? Shouldn't I pack the deck with more substance than card-draw?
These are the main questions I'm asking myself, sometimes.
Ideas are welcome! HUGE THANKS!
- Radouf
CHANGELOG:
25/01/2014: Misc changes
- Rooftop Storm ; too cute.
- Nevinyrral's disk ; too slow, switched for Oblivion Stone which is also more flexible.
- Duplicant ; switched for cheaper removal.
- Negate ; switched for more powerful counterspells... Is usually only cast late-game to back-up my Thraxi finishing blows, so I figured I could afford more (mana) expensive ones: Pact of negation, Desertion.
- Batterskull ; I'm too creature-light for this to be as efficient as it can be.
- Life's Finale ; too slow for my meta. I often need to sweep around turn 4, especially in Duel-Commander where you start at 30!
- Looter Il-Kor ; switched for a spell, so I don't hesitate to sweeeeeep 'cause he's on.
- Impulse ; misc.
- Control Magic ; got new control effect in the form of Bribery and Desertion and also Slave of Bolas, which also removes.
- Capsize ; powerful but comes in too late. Remember, my game plan?
- Lightning Greaves ; Thrax already has haste. So it's only for shroud, really... While this is a questionnable choice, I don't recall having missed this card.
+Izzet Signet; more consistency in the mana base.
+Diabolic vision; so I don't sweept my own Looter Il-Kor.
+Gifts ungiven; AMAZING tutor, especially with the bit of recursion to which I have access.
+Bribery; P.O.W.E.R.
+Desertion; good late game counter back-up when I'm in beatdown mode.
+Pact of negation; saves your skin.
+Consuming vapors; lifegain & removal in a package, since I lost Batterskull.
+Dismember; plain removal instead of Duplicant who was too slow for his function.
+ Oblivion stone; more flexible, faster Disk.
+Gilded lotus; Ramps and can power out Thraxi or big Earthquakes.
Nice deck man. I play a really similar deck. Here's another one I found on this forum that's similar, but not the same, as what we are playing. Maybe you'll get some ideas.
How the deck wins. There's really only one clear win condition. I can cast Insidious Dreams and grab myself an Opportunity, Master of Cruelties, Teleportal, and Lightning Greaves. Its kind of degenerate but it works.
Hopefully this helps. I may cut some ramp and one of my tutors and add another counter spell or something like Mystic Retrieval
His budget should be fine if he has a Time Spiral and is not even using it. I see a Snapcaster Mage in there, and he mentioned getting cards like Bribery.
As for the budget question, it's really... I'll be more than happy to include 5$ cards; now 10 to 15$ being the maximum Im looking to invest per card. While I like the deck smooth and powerful, Im not aiming at competitive play.
For me to invest more than that, I'd need a deck / strategy / synergy-defining card.
Vampiric tutor, as an example, would of course be an optimal card (compared to say mystical tutor). Now would a tutor be deck or synergy defining? Not really, to me. It still stays a support card.
One option Ive been looking toward is including Helm of obedience (which kinda fit anyway!) and leyline of the void as an infinite combo kill (still only one opponent). What do you guys think?
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
My playgroup and I have agreed to switch to Duel-Commander / French-Banlist so it changes the deck quite significantly. We found there's less «T1 - Sol ring into Mana Vault into T3 - I win» kind of variance, which is pretty random, and gives us more playing time on the board.
While this change (and starting at 30 life instead of 40) probably affect us negatively, it's true that it's more fair. I'll try it out for a bit and see from there.
I agree that it puts loads of pressure. But i found that Traxi himself, even without being semi-cheated in play, already puts tremendous amounts of pressure. Opponents have a hard time dealing with him anyway because Ive been disrupting & controlling them since the beginning of the game, and more often than not Thraxi is sufficient. That's where I say there 's a bit of win-more feel to the Storm.
See, the rooftop storm is more useful when you have to cast Thraxi multiple times, that's where you get the most value. Well now, what I do these days, is often try to set myself up so I have a Pact of negation in hand when Thrax comes out, so I can counter whatever spell would kill it and therefore not need to cast it again [so Rooftop storm isnt at it's 100%; Im preventing Trax from dying so there's no use in it being cheaper!] Moreover, Pact of Negation is a CMC 0 unconditionnal counterspell so its VERY versatile, where Rooftop storm is only ramping and... Finally, with all the mana rocks and tap/untap effects, even if Thraxi dies, most of the time I'm able to cast him a second or a third time. And I ramp into him anyways.
Plus: Rooftop storm has that "Arcade" feeling that I didnt enjoy much But thats just Vorthos opinion.
Fair enough I suppose, but it makes it easier to replay Thrax then reequip stuff, and I don't like relying on only counterspells to protect him. It just adds a bit more pressure, making people waste their wraths (since spot removal is less common in multiplayer) unless they get rid of the enchantment as well.
How is dismember working out for you? I've never liked that it only gives -5, but I will admit it can be very useful and will still hit many things.
You know what? I totally agree It's just a matter of "What do I want my deck to be at the moment" kind of choice!
Dismember is a new addition, one friend to whom I've lend the deck for a day came back telling me I lacked point-removal so I figured I'd try it out. I haven't played it yet though. I'll keep you posted!
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I used to run an extremely close list but I ran MLD for wins Devastation, Sunder, etc. It worked really well with tutors and Land equilibrium.
While most playgroups hate LD in a competitive area it was very powerful. Vandalblast is amazing for taking out artifacts and is insane with mycosynth lattice
JTMS doesn't hurt either
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I used to run an extremely close list but I ran MLD for wins Devastation, Sunder, etc. It worked really well with tutors and Land equilibrium.
While most playgroups hate LD in a competitive area it was very powerful. Vandalblast is amazing for taking out artifacts and is insane with mycosynth lattice
JTMS doesn't hurt either
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
You know what? I totally agree It's just a matter of "What do I want my deck to be at the moment" kind of choice!
Dismember is a new addition, one friend to whom I've lend the deck for a day came back telling me I lacked point-removal so I figured I'd try it out. I haven't played it yet though. I'll keep you posted!
Which is perfectly fine.
I'm indeed very interested to see how Dismember turns out.
How do the smaller draw spells actually work out for you? They seem fairly lackluster, especially later in the game. I'm talking about Ponder and the like here.
I'm indeed very interested to see how Dismember turns out.
How do the smaller draw spells actually work out for you? They seem fairly lackluster, especially later in the game. I'm talking about Ponder and the like here.
They mainly help on filtering, early game, to set myself up and find answers until I can take over with Thraxi. And you know what? Late game, they do the same job & at the very least cantrip, so for one mana, I get to ~ choose what card i want from the top three or so. It's very good, I think. But it's obviously support, which, with the mana rocks, I do have a lot. But it works very well. I got there because, at the earlier stages of the deck, I found I lacked consistency. That's the key, thats what I feel they bring to the table. What else do you do T1 anyways?
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Very nice and fresh suggestions! I'll look for those.
At what moment exactly in the game do you wipe the lands? Isn't it an only-after-Thrax-is-online line on play?
Personally I used Nicol Bolas and I would nuke the board of lands and keep a ton of mana rocks. Afterwards I'd set up with either Smokestack Or Braids, cabal minion to make sure opponents cant catch up. Having cards like Goblin Assault and Bitterblossom made it much more powerful.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I'm very keen on this Thraximundar commander deck I have been working on for now 2 years.
Honnestly loving it, and I thought I'd share it and maybe get a bit of help on optimizing a couple parameters [without breaking the bank].
Something special about it is that it's lately been merged with a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck to add-in an artifact sub-theme.
While I know it's light, it's still there, really adds to the flavor of the thing, and works flawlessly 95% of the time.
Please let me know what you think.
7 Thraximundar
6 Sorin Markov
8 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Control elements:
Sweepers:
2 Earthquake
3 Oblivion stone
3 Black Sun's Zenith
7 Cyclonic Rift
8 Decree of Pain
Steal:
5 Corrupted Conscience
5 Treachery
5 Desertion
5 Bribery
5 Slave of Bolas
Disruption:
0 Pact of negation
1 Dismember
1 Pithing Needle
2 Hymn to tourach
2 Baleful Strix
4 Sever the Bloodline
4 Into the Roil
4 Consuming vapors
5 Rakdos's Return
5 Far//Away
Utility cards:
1 Reanimate
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Fatestitcher
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Trading Post
5 Time Warp
Wurmcoil engine:
6 Wurmcoil Engine
Card advantage:
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
2 Telling Time
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Merfolk Looter
2 Diabolic Vision
4 Fact or Fiction
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Underworld connections
3 Jace Beleren
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
5 Bloodgift Demon
6 Consecrated Sphinx
Tutors:
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Fabricate
4 Gifts ungiven
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
5 Liliana Vess
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
Mana rocks and stuff:
1 Expedition Map
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Dimir Signet
2 Izzet Signet
2 Nightscape Familiar
2 Sapphire Medallion
3 Basalt monolith
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Coalition Relic
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Gilded lotus
Lands (35):
Utility
1x Academy Ruins
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Maze of Ith
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
1x Bojuka Bog
5x Island
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Command Tower
1x Graven Cairns
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
1x Watery Grave
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x River of Tears
1x City of Brass
1x Underground River
1x Shadowblood Ridge
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Crosis's Catacombs
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Arid Mesa
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Tainted Isle
1x Vault of whispers
So, what do you think?
Special mentions:
- Well, Im guessing I don't have to say that Thraximundar is a very mean machine. He's the main win-con we have, and people fear him for a reason.
- Earthquake, since I've included it in here, has been surprisingly enough a MVP very often and I would never look back. It doubles-up as a win-con, too, dealing the last couple of direct damage you need. Sometimes twice, given two turns and a Snapcaster Mage. While it also sweeps early on. And Oh, awesome art by Richard Kane Ferguson (4th ed.) Pet card.
- Also, do I have to say that Corrupted Conscience on Thraxi is quite scary?
Or that Baleful Strix packs I.N.S.A.N.E. Value, being an artifact, an I-block-anything-it-dies, and cantripping for a mere 2 mana?
- Now, I can hear you going: «Fatestitcher, really? :grumpy:»
Well, listen: it ramps, controls, unexpectedly undies to clear out the path for a Thraxi alpha strike, and, frankly... it's fun!
Now...
Games:
Most games play out like this: epic filtering, looting, and tutoring early-on to keep opponent at bay and/or stealing his threat by mid-game, then slowly grinding to totally overtake him with card advantage. Then Thraximundar came come out to put enormous pressure on him.
Control elements give us a variety of angles of attack: bouncing (tempo attack; 'cause who cares if you got a huge threat if I keep bouncing it back until you have to sacrifice it to Thrax?), a bit of MASS-hand disruption (please discard your hand, now), of counters and kill spells and a pletora of versatile artifacts I can tutor up for with both Tezz, and finally a bit of recursion. Even Thraxi himself is like an Edict spell. I mean, what's not to love?
Issues...
Well, I think the mana-base isn't exactly as reliable as I'd like it to be. And there's no way I can afford legacy duals, sorry. So what about the balance between mana-rocks and lands themselves?
And is this too many draw spells/engines? Shouldn't I pack the deck with more substance than card-draw?
These are the main questions I'm asking myself, sometimes.
Ideas are welcome! HUGE THANKS!
- Radouf
CHANGELOG:
25/01/2014: Misc changes
- Rooftop Storm ; too cute.
- Nevinyrral's disk ; too slow, switched for Oblivion Stone which is also more flexible.
- Duplicant ; switched for cheaper removal.
- Negate ; switched for more powerful counterspells... Is usually only cast late-game to back-up my Thraxi finishing blows, so I figured I could afford more (mana) expensive ones: Pact of negation, Desertion.
- Batterskull ; I'm too creature-light for this to be as efficient as it can be.
- Life's Finale ; too slow for my meta. I often need to sweep around turn 4, especially in Duel-Commander where you start at 30!
- Looter Il-Kor ; switched for a spell, so I don't hesitate to sweeeeeep 'cause he's on.
- Impulse ; misc.
- Control Magic ; got new control effect in the form of Bribery and Desertion and also Slave of Bolas, which also removes.
- Capsize ; powerful but comes in too late. Remember, my game plan?
- Lightning Greaves ; Thrax already has haste. So it's only for shroud, really... While this is a questionnable choice, I don't recall having missed this card.
+Izzet Signet; more consistency in the mana base.
+Diabolic vision; so I don't sweept my own Looter Il-Kor.
+Gifts ungiven; AMAZING tutor, especially with the bit of recursion to which I have access.
+Bribery; P.O.W.E.R.
+Desertion; good late game counter back-up when I'm in beatdown mode.
+Pact of negation; saves your skin.
+Consuming vapors; lifegain & removal in a package, since I lost Batterskull.
+Dismember; plain removal instead of Duplicant who was too slow for his function.
+ Oblivion stone; more flexible, faster Disk.
+Gilded lotus; Ramps and can power out Thraxi or big Earthquakes.
- Lands
+Temple of deceit; Scry 1 on a land is fun!
+Arid mesa; plain good.
+Maze of Ith; saves my skin.
+Lavaclaw reaches; just a back-up beatdown plan.
+Bojuka Bog; against ennoying GY-based strategies.
+Tainted Isle; consistency.
+Vault of whispers; Tezz's artifact sub-theme.
Also: Switched to Duel-Commander/French Ban-list
-----: Sol ring, Mana vault,Sensei's divining top, Mind twist; I'll miss you guys.
+++: Basalt monolith, Brainstorm, Underworld connections, Hymn to tourach; Pretty self-explanatory.
There's maybe just the Hymn that's pretty narrow, yet powerful.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=529572
7 Thraximundar
6 Grave Titan
3 Fleshbag Marauder
5 Havengul Lich
5 Lightning Reaver
6 Urabrask the Hidden
7 Kaervek the Merciless
6 Aetherling
6 Steel Hellkite
7 Blood Tyrant
5 Master of Cruelties
6 Hellkite Charger
6 Massacre Wurm
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Rite of Replication
5 Far//Away
3 Capsize
5 Evacuation
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Control Magic
7 Take Possession
5 Slave of Bolas
4 Diabolic Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
5 Increasing Ambition
4 Insidious Dreams
5 Bribery
3 Praetor's Grasp
6 Opportunity
2 Wheel of Fortune
5 Time Spiral
1 Ancestral Vision
5 Promise of Power
4 Fact of Fiction
5 Prophetic Bolt
4 Memory Plunder
6 Spelltwine
4 Stranglehold
2 Counterspell
3 Dissipate
3 Spell Crumple
3 Hinder
4 Cryptic Command
2 Teleportal
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Darksteel Ingot
1 Wayfarer's Bubble
1 Expedition Map
5 Guilded Lotus
4 Thran Dynamo
1 Sol Ring
3 Worn Powerstone
1 Vandalblast
8 Decree of Pain
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Chaos Warp
7 Cruel Ultimatum
8 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
How the deck wins. There's really only one clear win condition. I can cast Insidious Dreams and grab myself an Opportunity, Master of Cruelties, Teleportal, and Lightning Greaves. Its kind of degenerate but it works.
Hopefully this helps. I may cut some ramp and one of my tutors and add another counter spell or something like Mystic Retrieval
I like Rewind too
Example: Vampiric Tutor is an include but its about a $20 card.
Time Spiral was $3 a few years back. Bribery $5. So you never know.
But I have lots to add but wanna wait.
As for the budget question, it's really... I'll be more than happy to include 5$ cards; now 10 to 15$ being the maximum Im looking to invest per card. While I like the deck smooth and powerful, Im not aiming at competitive play.
For me to invest more than that, I'd need a deck / strategy / synergy-defining card.
Vampiric tutor, as an example, would of course be an optimal card (compared to say mystical tutor). Now would a tutor be deck or synergy defining? Not really, to me. It still stays a support card.
One option Ive been looking toward is including Helm of obedience (which kinda fit anyway!) and leyline of the void as an infinite combo kill (still only one opponent). What do you guys think?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I'm gonna update mine soon enough. EDIT: It's done! Check it out.
My playgroup and I have agreed to switch to Duel-Commander / French-Banlist so it changes the deck quite significantly. We found there's less «T1 - Sol ring into Mana Vault into T3 - I win» kind of variance, which is pretty random, and gives us more playing time on the board.
While this change (and starting at 30 life instead of 40) probably affect us negatively, it's true that it's more fair. I'll try it out for a bit and see from there.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
See, the rooftop storm is more useful when you have to cast Thraxi multiple times, that's where you get the most value. Well now, what I do these days, is often try to set myself up so I have a Pact of negation in hand when Thrax comes out, so I can counter whatever spell would kill it and therefore not need to cast it again [so Rooftop storm isnt at it's 100%; Im preventing Trax from dying so there's no use in it being cheaper!] Moreover, Pact of Negation is a CMC 0 unconditionnal counterspell so its VERY versatile, where Rooftop storm is only ramping and... Finally, with all the mana rocks and tap/untap effects, even if Thraxi dies, most of the time I'm able to cast him a second or a third time. And I ramp into him anyways.
Plus: Rooftop storm has that "Arcade" feeling that I didnt enjoy much But thats just Vorthos opinion.
What do you think?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
How is dismember working out for you? I've never liked that it only gives -5, but I will admit it can be very useful and will still hit many things.
Dismember is a new addition, one friend to whom I've lend the deck for a day came back telling me I lacked point-removal so I figured I'd try it out. I haven't played it yet though. I'll keep you posted!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
While most playgroups hate LD in a competitive area it was very powerful.
Vandalblast is amazing for taking out artifacts and is insane with mycosynth lattice
JTMS doesn't hurt either
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
At what moment exactly in the game do you wipe the lands? Isn't it an only-after-Thrax-is-online line on play?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Which is perfectly fine.
I'm indeed very interested to see how Dismember turns out.
How do the smaller draw spells actually work out for you? They seem fairly lackluster, especially later in the game. I'm talking about Ponder and the like here.
They mainly help on filtering, early game, to set myself up and find answers until I can take over with Thraxi. And you know what? Late game, they do the same job & at the very least cantrip, so for one mana, I get to ~ choose what card i want from the top three or so. It's very good, I think. But it's obviously support, which, with the mana rocks, I do have a lot. But it works very well. I got there because, at the earlier stages of the deck, I found I lacked consistency. That's the key, thats what I feel they bring to the table. What else do you do T1 anyways?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I've just never really been a fan of them in multiplayer. I've always liked bigger draw spells that refill my hand late game.
Personally I used Nicol Bolas and I would nuke the board of lands and keep a ton of mana rocks. Afterwards I'd set up with either Smokestack Or Braids, cabal minion to make sure opponents cant catch up. Having cards like Goblin Assault and Bitterblossom made it much more powerful.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake