I wont claim to be the most creative in this deck's creation. Over the past few months I've been doing a lot of research here and on other sites to get a good grip of the deck as I put it together. Much respect goes to Jack_from_NC, Jostin123, and ajacobik. Hopefully, I'll be able to add to the conversation in my own way in my own time.
Now I've been playing long enough to remember Duelist Magazine, and one specific article has always stayed in my mind; it discussed an idea called Cluster Decks. Thankfully, that article is still available online: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/218 In Sharuum, I see an excellent opportunity to build such a deck; one where many widgets and gears interlock with each other in novel ways. I've drawn a great deal from Jostin's list, though it has been adjusted with what I have and some of my own ideas. Some of them may be good, some of them may be bad, but I'll learn more that way I hope.
I know that the deck needs improvements in the land base, but I'm just a bit short on cash to pick up the six fetch and ABU dual lands at the moment. Other than that, I'd really like to get some good table time with this list and shake things out before pulling slots.
Update 11/24/2013
The deck has been playing for a few months now and has undergone some significant revisions. The most major changes have been to the mana base, making the deck more reliable and less clunky. Currently the cards on the chopping block are the Cranial Plating and the Darksteel Ingot.
A very... interesting list. I see some of the combo's, and I see great potential.
I skimmed over your article. It's not very clear what your aim is. The decks I have seen (and built) seem to favor the Sharuum infinite damage/mill combo. I also see the infinite turn combo, one set of the pieces to the infinite mill combo.
At this time I only have more questions than recommendations.
Are you aiming for the recurring items with Salvaging Combo?
Are you looking for speed or accuracy?
Where are the tutor's? I see a few in there (and nice notion on the Muddle the Mixture Transmute. Counter and can tutor if necessary)
Is money an issue? I know my deck and some others run pretty lean on cost. Maybe not a budget per se, but not requiring the things like expensive dual lands.
I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
I guess that I did not make this clear. My goal for the deck is to have a number of related and interchangeable widgets that allow for combo's and card advantage strategies. While the deck can easily win with the traditional Sharuum combo, I neither wanted to race towards it, nor feel dependent upon it. I want the deck to feel like the cards open up pathways to interact and victory.
So as to your question about speed or accuracy? While I want both, I am more looking for versatility, survivability, and redundancy.
I really wanted to have a good mix of raw card draw and tutoring; but I didn't want to choke out the deck with them either.
Enlightened Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Muddle the Mixture, Vampiric Tutor, Tezzeret the Seeker, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, Transmute Artifact, Reshape, Artificer's Intuition. Really, there are quite a few tutor effects in the deck.
Money is kinda an issue. I just cant afford afford the mana base that I would like to put in this deck, but that will come with time. Really, I dont mind any suggestions that aren't more than $100, though there is a balance of cost to impact on the deck.
Karn, Silver golem is a subtle power house. After getting a couple of games with him, I'd never consider taking him out. He just opens up so many interactions and angles of play.
I'm a little less sold on Karn, Liberated. He is great removal, but he is always hated off of the table and his ultimate doesn't really create an angle for victory. I may replace him with All is Dust.
I really do appreciate the commentary and thoughts.
I guess that I did not make this clear. My goal for the deck is to have a number of related and interchangeable widgets that allow for combo's and card advantage strategies. While the deck can easily win with the traditional Sharuum combo, I neither wanted to race towards it, nor feel dependent upon it. I want the deck to feel like the cards open up pathways to interact and victory.
So as to your question about speed or accuracy? While I want both, I am more looking for versatility, survivability, and redundancy.
I really wanted to have a good mix of raw card draw and tutoring; but I didn't want to choke out the deck with them either.
Enlightened Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Muddle the Mixture, Vampiric Tutor, Tezzeret the Seeker, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, Transmute Artifact, Reshape, Artificer's Intuition. Really, there are quite a few tutor effects in the deck.
Money is kinda an issue. I just cant afford afford the mana base that I would like to put in this deck, but that will come with time. Really, I dont mind any suggestions that aren't more than $100, though there is a balance of cost to impact on the deck.
Karn, Silver golem is a subtle power house. After getting a couple of games with him, I'd never consider taking him out. He just opens up so many interactions and angles of play.
I'm a little less sold on Karn, Liberated. He is great removal, but he is always hated off of the table and his ultimate doesn't really create an angle for victory. I may replace him with All is Dust.
I really do appreciate the commentary and thoughts.
Hey Serrasin,
Glad to see another person interested in the Sharuum discussion. I've noticed that Sharuum opinions have generally split into two camps: those the feel combining off as soon as possible is the best form of optimization, and those who feel that building towards versatility and survivability is the best form of optimization. While I believe that there are great benefits to be gained by building for "the combo", I am of school of thought that those builds lose more total game win percentage to aggressive mulliganning and folding to random hate than decks that build towards resiliency under all conditions. This is why I am such a proponent of this style of deck.
I understand that optimization is very heavily influenced by deck budget and "cap room" as the subtleties lost between a $10 sol ring and an $80 mana crypt can reveal themselves at an inopportune time during a commander game. With that said, I am glad to see you are understanding how many interactions a list like this can offer. What most people don't take into account is that by using this method of building Sharuum, you open up your gameplay decisions exponentially, with every possible interaction unfolding a whole new slew of decisions, each vastly different from the next, most of which could not exist if the deck was built to win through a single route. Building this way also promotes individualize tion of lists, as the pilot can cater the individual slots to fit his or her play style, further increasing the likelihood of stronger game decisions and a higher win percentage.
I will comment on the Karns in the deck:
Silver Golem - this card is a Swiss Army knife, in the hands of MacGyver. He kills opposing acceleration, tirns your mana rocks into beat sticks, is equipment control, blocks almost everything and survives, turns indestructible artifacts into amazing walls, and more.
Liberated - This card originally was a Spine of Ish- Shah. It replaced spine because, as a seven drop, it did what spine could do, but better. It's a more flexible card
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I can see the appeal of survival. In one on one games, the combo builds from what I have experienced, does not do so well. As outlined, combo players focus more on speed and less on defense. But the combo still needs time.
While I understand that you don't want to use Sharuum to win per-se, the cards on the list are quite extensive. I am sure they also work well in other situations. I personally like pairing Magister Sphinx with Mirrorworks and a Blink Effect, such as Deadeye Navigator or Venser, the Sojurner. This became quite effective in a one on one game where I was beginning to loose hope. Then I just kept bouncing Magister Sphinx and dropping the other players life total to 10. after a couple of rounds of his life not getting up over 10, I had bounced and made enough copies to drop his life to 10, then kill him off.
The great thing about Sharuum is the color scheme and the ability for it to adapt to your needs. And the cards aren't super expensive either. I know I have invested quite a bit in my deck for various reasons. Then again I suppose it's a matter of personal preference.
In regards to Salvaging station, it's great. I ran it and some minor pieces in my deck for a long time. I also recommend Trading Post. It functions most of the same way, to my understanding.
As for Karn Liberated, I have to agree with what has been said thus far. He calls in hate from across the board. Silver Golem doesn't see enough board time for me to warrant keeping him. In my playgroup, I tend to play politician. It's easy for me to kick back, let the guys go at each other and build the combo. If you are playing more one on one games, I can definitely see wanting to keep things focused on defense.
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I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
If you want a card that brings along an assortment of synergies with the rest of the deck, Thopter Assembly has strong interactions with Time Sieve, Cranial Plating, Trading Post, and Kudolta Forgemaster, among others. Plus it's a win condition in and of itself.
Hey! I really appreciate the attention and feedback.
I guess that I would first like to point out that Magister Sphinx and Mindslaver were both intentionally left out. I'm not going to dispute their power and synergy with the deck, but honestly they were both excluded for the same reasons:
1) Too much agro: It's the same reason I am running Rhystic Study instead of Consecrated Sphinx. The later is more powerful, but it also draws more attention. I don't want too much attention with this deck.
2) Too linear: They neuter one player, and then what? sometimes that's what you need, but in a deck that is good at reusing resources it's going to leave all the players guessing if they are next.
I have a Thopter Assembly set aside for this deck, but truthfully I find it rather cumbersome. Glassdust Hulk, and Myr Battlesphere are likely to get played and tested before it does, simply because I feel they sync with the deck a bit better.
I've gone back and forth on Mirrorworks and Rings of Brighthearth. Quite frankly I see both of these as added value cards. If the deck isn't clicking along without them, they won't really address any problems its having. However, once the deck has been smoothed out and fat trimmed, both of these cards can serve as added muscle to make strong synergies stronger.
I will say that two of my favorite cards in the deck are Baleful Strix, and Forcefield. Both do an amazing job of dissuading attackers without the attention that Ensnaring Bridge inevitably brings. In addition, the Strix can serve as a backup card draw engine with the blink or clone effects. Though I don't always tutor for them, I am always happy to see these two cards in an opening hand or top deck.
Seriously, if you are looking to build Sharuum and have the cash, Forcefield should be the first non-combo or core piece to acquire and sleeve. It does work.
Cards On Thin Ice Wayfarer's Bauble: Recursive and tutorable mana ramp which can also help with mana fixing. It's really a very strong card. The only reason I am considering taking it out is because my basic land count is slowly reducing. This may become another mana rock.
Solemn Simulacrum: A great card with strong inherent value. It has the same potential problem as the Wayfarer's Bauble. This may become a Myr Battlesphere.
Blue Sun's Zenith: Instant and bursty card draw is good, and I like that it shuffles back into the deck for another pass. I'm just worried that it will be too cumbersome, or too soft if I need the refresh earlier than later. This could be replaced by any number of great instant card draw effects.
Master Transmuter: I suspect that it will eat removal before ever actually getting it's effect off more often than not. That being said, I love the effect! It's a ghetto blink at worst, or it can possibly let me cheat in expensive artifacts on the cheap. I really like this card, but if it keeps getting hated out before returning value then it's not worth the mana and deck slot.
Oblivion Stone: Yeah, I know. It's a great card. Unfortunately, the disk works better in conjunction with Darksteel Forge, and is cheaper to play. I think All is Dust may end up replacing the O-Stone.
Karn Liberated: One of the best removal cards in the deck, if not in the game. The problem is, he nearly always gets hated off, so you are looking at a single activation. In addition, the other planeswalkers in the deck all directly contribute to the deck and their ultimates serve as kill conditions. I keep asking myself if I cant get more work out of this slot. All is Dust[/CARD]?
Karn was the first planeswalker I wanted to include but didn't see on everyone's list. Now I understand why. Yes, all is dust will garner hate, it is not as painful as losing Karn before he gets going. I myself am considering removing Karn in favor of all is dust.
I also like n-disk and d-forge for recurring wipes. A natural synergy there.
One card I just do not get is the baleful stix. Maybe its just I don't like it. It may stem from not seeing it in action proper. How does it play for you?
I keep glassdust hulk side boarded for 1v1.
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I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
Karn was the first planeswalker I wanted to include but didn't see on everyone's list. Now I understand why. Yes, all is dust will garner hate, it is not as painful as losing Karn before he gets going. I myself am considering removing Karn in favor of all is dust.
I also like n-disk and d-forge for recurring wipes. A natural synergy there.
One card I just do not get is the baleful stix. Maybe its just I don't like it. It may stem from not seeing it in action proper. How does it play for you?
I keep glassdust hulk side boarded for 1v1.
In my list, Karn does not replace all is dust, he compliments it. In my deck, Karn is slotted as a stiff upgrade to Spine of Ish Shah.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
One card I just do not get is the baleful stix. Maybe its just I don't like it. It may stem from not seeing it in action proper. How does it play for you?
Its a 1/1 flying deathtouch for two mana... that cantrips. The card is great for dissuading casual attacks, and if it dies there are a multitude of ways to recover it; drawing more cards. Alternatively, one could blink it for extra cantrip triggers as another recursive draw mechanism. Simply, the Strix nearly always trades up.
Its a 1/1 flying deathtouch for two mana... that cantrips. The card is great for dissuading casual attacks, and if it dies there are a multitude of ways to recover it; drawing more cards. Alternatively, one could blink it for extra cantrip triggers as another recursive draw mechanism. Simply, the Strix nearly always trades up.
I've been hesitant to use Strix in my list. I know it's good (it's pretty insane in vintage) but my configuration isn't made to take advantage of it as well as others. I use Tawnos's coffin instead of Conjurer's closet. Coffin is more busted with Sharuum as each protects the other very well. Coffin taps Strix, taking away the one thing it's amazing at: defense. I wouldn't want to burn a Sharuum trigger on a Strix when I could be getting memory jar. With that said, it does offer incremental value. I don't run Transmuter cuz it's too slow so that takes away more utility from Strix.
With that said, if anyone has any interactions with it that I'm missing, I am more than open to hear it. I'd love to run it: I just can't justify doing so.
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Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
You're correct that it has weaker interactions, but so does Ensnaring Bridge. It's the defense that I am primarily looking for in the Strix. That it can be used as a weak draw engine if needed just gives it a bit extra value.
I got a couple of games in last night and got hammered by artifact and graveyard hate, and my own draws. Not a good showing. I think that I am really going to focus on my mana and streamlining the deck to help keep it from stalling out completely. Fortunately, that sort of experience isn't common for me with this deck so I'm taking it in stride and drawing some lessons from it.
Has anyone had good experiences running Norn's Annex? I like that it's effectively an artifact version of Propaganda so it might dissuade attacks, but I have my doubts that it's tax will be an effective deterrent in this format.
You're correct that it has weaker interactions, but so does Ensnaring Bridge. It's the defense that I am primarily looking for in the Strix. That it can be used as a weak draw engine if needed just gives it a bit extra value.
I got a couple of games in last night and got hammered by artifact and graveyard hate, and my own draws. Not a good showing. I think that I am really going to focus on my mana and streamlining the deck to help keep it from stalling out completely. Fortunately, that sort of experience isn't common for me with this deck so I'm taking it in stride and drawing some lessons from it.
Has anyone had good experiences running Norn's Annex? I like that it's effectively an artifact version of Propaganda so it might dissuade attacks, but I have my doubts that it's tax will be an effective deterrent in this format.
In my experience, propaganda effects aren't ideal for this style of deck. Maile they can slow the opponent down, they are more difficult to tutor up, I un-recurrable, and the opponent can still swing if they have high life totals or mana. Are you looking for a stop-gap in the mid game, something that makes combat more painful, or something that just shuts down combat? I know cost has been an issue on these threads, but for my list, Ensnaring bridge has been golden, and bazaar has been amazing at buying me time to rebuild my board AND protecting my planeswalkers. I don't know many who have a bazaar of Baghdad lying around to test. I can tell you that it is unequivocally a bomb and both has synergy with Ensnaring Bridge, and creates synergies for other cards through Ensnaring Bridge.
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Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
In my list, Karn does not replace all is dust, he compliments it. In my deck, Karn is slotted as a stiff upgrade to Spine of Ish Shah.
This has always interested me. I've always used Spine with things like Trading Post and other artifact synergy to get increasing value out of it, things I cannot do with Karn.
I believe in a vacuum Karn is stronger, but in an artifact list Spine scales better. Although in my group, walkers rarely live more than 1 cycle.
This has always interested me. I've always used Spine with things like Trading Post and other artifact synergy to get increasing value out of it, things I cannot do with Karn.
I believe in a vacuum Karn is stronger, but in an artifact list Spine scales better. Although in my group, walkers rarely live more than 1 cycle.
I sometimes see people running Phyrexia's Core even though it only synergizes with Spine of Ish Sah. Maybe if Primeval Titan was legal, that would make some sense, but it always seems like wishful thinking to me when I see it in lists, especially when there are so many useful utility lands you could run instead.
This has always interested me. I've always used Spine with things like Trading Post and other artifact synergy to get increasing value out of it, things I cannot do with Karn.
I believe in a vacuum Karn is stronger, but in an artifact list Spine scales better. Although in my group, walkers rarely live more than 1 cycle.
I agree that both are strong. What breaks it for me is that Spine bounces back to your hand when you kill it, so it's not Sharuum friendly. I like the fact that Karn exiles everything and doesn't destroy it. In some of my play circles, Blightsteel Colossi have been known to run rampant. Also, Spine doesn't do anything once it's in play. Karn is a threat that must be dealt with, which also draws a lot of heat off other cards. There have been a few times that I've been able to ride and Ensnaring Bridge or Thopter Foundry protection to a Karn ultimate which has immediately prompted scoops ending the game.
However, the main reason is how much of a sleeper effect the +4 effect is worth. Often times, game states devolve into situations where everyone has tried to "go off" and everyone is spent. During these times, a favorable topdeck can usually dictate who can pull ahead. In games 3-5 players, an unmolested Karn can keep other players' hands in control while managing any top decked threats they play. My deck consists of about 50% mana sources with a 35/15 split of lands and artifacts. For those times that I'm top decking nothing but mana and for whatever reason I don't have another engine up to grind card advantage out of, Karn can keep other players in check until I get there or until Karn ends the game himself.
For me Karn Liberated is included more for its game function than a deck function.
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In my experience, propaganda effects aren't ideal for this style of deck. Maile they can slow the opponent down, they are more difficult to tutor up, I un-recurrable, and the opponent can still swing if they have high life totals or mana. Are you looking for a stop-gap in the mid game, something that makes combat more painful, or something that just shuts down combat? I know cost has been an issue on these threads, but for my list, Ensnaring bridge has been golden, and bazaar has been amazing at buying me time to rebuild my board AND protecting my planeswalkers. I don't know many who have a bazaar of Baghdad lying around to test. I can tell you that it is unequivocally a bomb and both has synergy with Ensnaring Bridge, and creates synergies for other cards through Ensnaring Bridge.
I am already running Ensnaring Bridge. It's great at stopping combat, but it does it too well. It basically forces anyone with attacking as part of their strategy to blow it up. What I was looking for in Norn's Annex was a card to dissuade casual attacks from me to other players. It's not going to have an effect on players set on attacking into you, but I was thinking it might redirect the casual attack that crop up from often having no blockers while not being as critical or threatening as to require immediate removal. Forcefield already does this effectively against larger creatures, but not against swarms.
I used to run a Sharuum list with the same concept. Basically the idea is to have a bunch of little combo-y artifacts that can interact not necessarily with specific cards but with a wide array of different pieces. Some of these include:
And you can sometimes stumble into neat little combos completely by accident. It's really fun to play the deck and each game you're working over the pieces you have and seeing how they interact with one another. To me at least this prevents the deck from getting stale as a result of just tutoring for the same combo every game.
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EDH Decks:
RRRDo Not Pursue Lu Bu!!!RRR UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
Update 11/24/2013
The deck has been playing for a few months now and has undergone some significant revisions. The most major changes have been to the mana base, making the deck more reliable and less clunky. Currently the cards on the chopping block are the Cranial Plating and the Darksteel Ingot.
I am running it to be able to sneak a commander kill with Sharuum, a poison kill with Inkmoth Nexus, or to boost one of my lifelink creatures for a nice boost of health. It also works well with thopters or myr; you can move it to an unblocked attacker as an instant.
Ah, I looked over Inkmoth in your list. Say no more.
I really like the article you posted in the OP. That's what my deck has moved to as well. I'm finding that resiliency makes for longer (read: more fun) games and more consistent wins overall.
Yeah, I'm still a bit iffy on it to be honest though. I consider it one of the weaker cards in the deck.
I read that article years ago when it came out in Duelist and it had a huge impact on my outlook on deck building. I'm glad that they republished it on the web, sometimes is nice to go back and reread the fundamentals.
My manabase is also running particularly smooth now and I am looking at trimming one of the three drop rainbow rocks. At the moment I am looking at Darksteel Ingot for Darksteel Forge. It retains most of the animation plays that were there previously, but also provides some different levels of protection. With disk, it also closes the game pretty quickly.
My manabase is also running particularly smooth now and I am looking at trimming one of the three drop rainbow rocks. At the moment I am looking at Darksteel Ingot for Darksteel Forge. It retains most of the animation plays that were there previously, but also provides some different levels of protection. With disk, it also closes the game pretty quickly.
Be careful not to rely too hard on Forge. It's very Clunky, almost impossible to cast, and a huge blow-out if it gets bounced or tucked in response to a Disk activation.
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I agree about the forge. I find myself needing the mana fixing of the three drop mana rocks less and less, and so am looking at replacing them with potential threatening cards which could forward my own tempo. The forge is the first one that I am trying as I've already used it before, it adds value by itself, and works with some of my other cards such as Karn or the disk for increased value.
One of the other cards that I am looking at is the Myr Matrix. It animates into an indestructible 5/5, and it throws out artifact 2/2 tokens. It's somewhat inefficient, but its a worthwhile end of turn mana-dump.
This is a fairly major change designed to shake up and tighten the deck down a bit. Some of the cards which had been cut have returned for another round of trials and some of the 'staples' are gone. Some of the changes are self-evident, but others are not.
Cranial Plating: General/Inkmoth kills just didn't happen frequently so it was more commonly equipped to Wurmcoil or Steelwind. Useful, but underwhelming.
Duplicant: Six mana is a steep price (even for exile) when the deck has the three strongest removal colors.
Venser: Slow, clunky, and rarely resolved more than one trigger. Replaced with Master Transmuter which suffers similar issues, but enjoys greater synergies with the deck.
Time Spiral: Replaced with Blue Sun's Zenith which can double as a win condition in conjunction with Mind's Eye and infinite mana.
Cut:
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Baleful Strix
1x Blasting Station
1x Cranial Plating
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Duplicant
1x Esper Panorama
1x Mox Diamond
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Rhystic Study
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Time Spiral
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Vindicate
1x Whispering Madness
Added:
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Karn Liberated
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Master Transmuter
1x Roar of Reclamation
1x Scrubland
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Tundra
1x Unburial Rites
1x Underground Sea
1x Unexpectedly Absent
Now I've been playing long enough to remember Duelist Magazine, and one specific article has always stayed in my mind; it discussed an idea called Cluster Decks. Thankfully, that article is still available online: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/218 In Sharuum, I see an excellent opportunity to build such a deck; one where many widgets and gears interlock with each other in novel ways. I've drawn a great deal from Jostin's list, though it has been adjusted with what I have and some of my own ideas. Some of them may be good, some of them may be bad, but I'll learn more that way I hope.
I know that the deck needs improvements in the land base, but I'm just a bit short on cash to pick up the six fetch and ABU dual lands at the moment. Other than that, I'd really like to get some good table time with this list and shake things out before pulling slots.
1x Aether Spellbomb
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Clock of Omens
1x Dispeller's Capsule
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Executioner's Capsule
1x Expedition Map
1x Forcefield
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lotus Bloom
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Memory Jar
1x Mind's Eye
1x Mox Opal
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Salvaging Station
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of the Meek
1x Tawnos's Coffin
1x Thopter Foundry
1x Time Sieve
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Trading Post
1x Voltaic Key
1x Voyager Staff
1x Academy Ruins
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Buried Ruin
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Glimmervoid
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Island
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Phyrexia's Core
4x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
4x Swamp
1x Tolaria West
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Watery Grave
Planeswalker (3)
1x Karn Liberated
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Artificer's Intuition
Instant (9)
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Entomb
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Impulse
1x Intuition
1x Oblation
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Unexpectedly Absent
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (8)
1x All Is Dust
1x Bitter Ordeal
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Open the Vaults
1x Roar of Reclamation
1x Transmute Artifact
1x Unburial Rites
1x Windfall
Creature (7)
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Master Transmuter
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Update 11/24/2013
The deck has been playing for a few months now and has undergone some significant revisions. The most major changes have been to the mana base, making the deck more reliable and less clunky. Currently the cards on the chopping block are the Cranial Plating and the Darksteel Ingot.
I skimmed over your article. It's not very clear what your aim is. The decks I have seen (and built) seem to favor the Sharuum infinite damage/mill combo. I also see the infinite turn combo, one set of the pieces to the infinite mill combo.
At this time I only have more questions than recommendations.
Are you aiming for the recurring items with Salvaging Combo?
Are you looking for speed or accuracy?
Where are the tutor's? I see a few in there (and nice notion on the Muddle the Mixture Transmute. Counter and can tutor if necessary)
Is money an issue? I know my deck and some others run pretty lean on cost. Maybe not a budget per se, but not requiring the things like expensive dual lands.
Also, and this is more of a one on one question for myself, how does Karn Silver Golem and Karn Liberated run for you?
All in all, looks like fun for you good sir.
So as to your question about speed or accuracy? While I want both, I am more looking for versatility, survivability, and redundancy.
I really wanted to have a good mix of raw card draw and tutoring; but I didn't want to choke out the deck with them either.
Enlightened Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Muddle the Mixture, Vampiric Tutor, Tezzeret the Seeker, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, Transmute Artifact, Reshape, Artificer's Intuition. Really, there are quite a few tutor effects in the deck.
Money is kinda an issue. I just cant afford afford the mana base that I would like to put in this deck, but that will come with time. Really, I dont mind any suggestions that aren't more than $100, though there is a balance of cost to impact on the deck.
Karn, Silver golem is a subtle power house. After getting a couple of games with him, I'd never consider taking him out. He just opens up so many interactions and angles of play.
I'm a little less sold on Karn, Liberated. He is great removal, but he is always hated off of the table and his ultimate doesn't really create an angle for victory. I may replace him with All is Dust.
I really do appreciate the commentary and thoughts.
Hey Serrasin,
Glad to see another person interested in the Sharuum discussion. I've noticed that Sharuum opinions have generally split into two camps: those the feel combining off as soon as possible is the best form of optimization, and those who feel that building towards versatility and survivability is the best form of optimization. While I believe that there are great benefits to be gained by building for "the combo", I am of school of thought that those builds lose more total game win percentage to aggressive mulliganning and folding to random hate than decks that build towards resiliency under all conditions. This is why I am such a proponent of this style of deck.
I understand that optimization is very heavily influenced by deck budget and "cap room" as the subtleties lost between a $10 sol ring and an $80 mana crypt can reveal themselves at an inopportune time during a commander game. With that said, I am glad to see you are understanding how many interactions a list like this can offer. What most people don't take into account is that by using this method of building Sharuum, you open up your gameplay decisions exponentially, with every possible interaction unfolding a whole new slew of decisions, each vastly different from the next, most of which could not exist if the deck was built to win through a single route. Building this way also promotes individualize tion of lists, as the pilot can cater the individual slots to fit his or her play style, further increasing the likelihood of stronger game decisions and a higher win percentage.
I will comment on the Karns in the deck:
Silver Golem - this card is a Swiss Army knife, in the hands of MacGyver. He kills opposing acceleration, tirns your mana rocks into beat sticks, is equipment control, blocks almost everything and survives, turns indestructible artifacts into amazing walls, and more.
Liberated - This card originally was a Spine of Ish- Shah. It replaced spine because, as a seven drop, it did what spine could do, but better. It's a more flexible card
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
List of cards that combo off with Sharuum: Link
While I understand that you don't want to use Sharuum to win per-se, the cards on the list are quite extensive. I am sure they also work well in other situations. I personally like pairing Magister Sphinx with Mirrorworks and a Blink Effect, such as Deadeye Navigator or Venser, the Sojurner. This became quite effective in a one on one game where I was beginning to loose hope. Then I just kept bouncing Magister Sphinx and dropping the other players life total to 10. after a couple of rounds of his life not getting up over 10, I had bounced and made enough copies to drop his life to 10, then kill him off.
Then of course you get into removals, be them board wipes or spot, and then you can include the mindslaver combo, Land tax+Scroll Rack combo, or even the Teferi, Mage of Zahlfir+Knowledge Pool board lock.
The great thing about Sharuum is the color scheme and the ability for it to adapt to your needs. And the cards aren't super expensive either. I know I have invested quite a bit in my deck for various reasons. Then again I suppose it's a matter of personal preference.
In regards to Salvaging station, it's great. I ran it and some minor pieces in my deck for a long time. I also recommend Trading Post. It functions most of the same way, to my understanding.
As for Karn Liberated, I have to agree with what has been said thus far. He calls in hate from across the board. Silver Golem doesn't see enough board time for me to warrant keeping him. In my playgroup, I tend to play politician. It's easy for me to kick back, let the guys go at each other and build the combo. If you are playing more one on one games, I can definitely see wanting to keep things focused on defense.
I guess that I would first like to point out that Magister Sphinx and Mindslaver were both intentionally left out. I'm not going to dispute their power and synergy with the deck, but honestly they were both excluded for the same reasons:
1) Too much agro: It's the same reason I am running Rhystic Study instead of Consecrated Sphinx. The later is more powerful, but it also draws more attention. I don't want too much attention with this deck.
2) Too linear: They neuter one player, and then what? sometimes that's what you need, but in a deck that is good at reusing resources it's going to leave all the players guessing if they are next.
I have a Thopter Assembly set aside for this deck, but truthfully I find it rather cumbersome. Glassdust Hulk, and Myr Battlesphere are likely to get played and tested before it does, simply because I feel they sync with the deck a bit better.
I've gone back and forth on Mirrorworks and Rings of Brighthearth. Quite frankly I see both of these as added value cards. If the deck isn't clicking along without them, they won't really address any problems its having. However, once the deck has been smoothed out and fat trimmed, both of these cards can serve as added muscle to make strong synergies stronger.
I will say that two of my favorite cards in the deck are Baleful Strix, and Forcefield. Both do an amazing job of dissuading attackers without the attention that Ensnaring Bridge inevitably brings. In addition, the Strix can serve as a backup card draw engine with the blink or clone effects. Though I don't always tutor for them, I am always happy to see these two cards in an opening hand or top deck.
Seriously, if you are looking to build Sharuum and have the cash, Forcefield should be the first non-combo or core piece to acquire and sleeve. It does work.
Cards On Thin Ice
Wayfarer's Bauble: Recursive and tutorable mana ramp which can also help with mana fixing. It's really a very strong card. The only reason I am considering taking it out is because my basic land count is slowly reducing. This may become another mana rock.
Solemn Simulacrum: A great card with strong inherent value. It has the same potential problem as the Wayfarer's Bauble. This may become a Myr Battlesphere.
Blue Sun's Zenith: Instant and bursty card draw is good, and I like that it shuffles back into the deck for another pass. I'm just worried that it will be too cumbersome, or too soft if I need the refresh earlier than later. This could be replaced by any number of great instant card draw effects.
Master Transmuter: I suspect that it will eat removal before ever actually getting it's effect off more often than not. That being said, I love the effect! It's a ghetto blink at worst, or it can possibly let me cheat in expensive artifacts on the cheap. I really like this card, but if it keeps getting hated out before returning value then it's not worth the mana and deck slot.
Oblivion Stone: Yeah, I know. It's a great card. Unfortunately, the disk works better in conjunction with Darksteel Forge, and is cheaper to play. I think All is Dust may end up replacing the O-Stone.
Karn Liberated: One of the best removal cards in the deck, if not in the game. The problem is, he nearly always gets hated off, so you are looking at a single activation. In addition, the other planeswalkers in the deck all directly contribute to the deck and their ultimates serve as kill conditions. I keep asking myself if I cant get more work out of this slot. All is Dust[/CARD]?
I also like n-disk and d-forge for recurring wipes. A natural synergy there.
One card I just do not get is the baleful stix. Maybe its just I don't like it. It may stem from not seeing it in action proper. How does it play for you?
I keep glassdust hulk side boarded for 1v1.
In my list, Karn does not replace all is dust, he compliments it. In my deck, Karn is slotted as a stiff upgrade to Spine of Ish Shah.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Its a 1/1 flying deathtouch for two mana... that cantrips. The card is great for dissuading casual attacks, and if it dies there are a multitude of ways to recover it; drawing more cards. Alternatively, one could blink it for extra cantrip triggers as another recursive draw mechanism. Simply, the Strix nearly always trades up.
I've been hesitant to use Strix in my list. I know it's good (it's pretty insane in vintage) but my configuration isn't made to take advantage of it as well as others. I use Tawnos's coffin instead of Conjurer's closet. Coffin is more busted with Sharuum as each protects the other very well. Coffin taps Strix, taking away the one thing it's amazing at: defense. I wouldn't want to burn a Sharuum trigger on a Strix when I could be getting memory jar. With that said, it does offer incremental value. I don't run Transmuter cuz it's too slow so that takes away more utility from Strix.
With that said, if anyone has any interactions with it that I'm missing, I am more than open to hear it. I'd love to run it: I just can't justify doing so.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
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I got a couple of games in last night and got hammered by artifact and graveyard hate, and my own draws. Not a good showing. I think that I am really going to focus on my mana and streamlining the deck to help keep it from stalling out completely. Fortunately, that sort of experience isn't common for me with this deck so I'm taking it in stride and drawing some lessons from it.
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Has anyone had good experiences running Norn's Annex? I like that it's effectively an artifact version of Propaganda so it might dissuade attacks, but I have my doubts that it's tax will be an effective deterrent in this format.
In my experience, propaganda effects aren't ideal for this style of deck. Maile they can slow the opponent down, they are more difficult to tutor up, I un-recurrable, and the opponent can still swing if they have high life totals or mana. Are you looking for a stop-gap in the mid game, something that makes combat more painful, or something that just shuts down combat? I know cost has been an issue on these threads, but for my list, Ensnaring bridge has been golden, and bazaar has been amazing at buying me time to rebuild my board AND protecting my planeswalkers. I don't know many who have a bazaar of Baghdad lying around to test. I can tell you that it is unequivocally a bomb and both has synergy with Ensnaring Bridge, and creates synergies for other cards through Ensnaring Bridge.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
This has always interested me. I've always used Spine with things like Trading Post and other artifact synergy to get increasing value out of it, things I cannot do with Karn.
I believe in a vacuum Karn is stronger, but in an artifact list Spine scales better. Although in my group, walkers rarely live more than 1 cycle.
I sometimes see people running Phyrexia's Core even though it only synergizes with Spine of Ish Sah. Maybe if Primeval Titan was legal, that would make some sense, but it always seems like wishful thinking to me when I see it in lists, especially when there are so many useful utility lands you could run instead.
But yeah, Spine and Trading Post are both good enough to run on their own, so that makes sense. I really like Spine in red with Goblin Welder and Shattering Spree, and to a lesser extent, Shattering Pulse. It's too bad that it's costly to reuse with Viashino Heretic, but Glissa Sunseeker can be nice if you're in green.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
I agree that both are strong. What breaks it for me is that Spine bounces back to your hand when you kill it, so it's not Sharuum friendly. I like the fact that Karn exiles everything and doesn't destroy it. In some of my play circles, Blightsteel Colossi have been known to run rampant. Also, Spine doesn't do anything once it's in play. Karn is a threat that must be dealt with, which also draws a lot of heat off other cards. There have been a few times that I've been able to ride and Ensnaring Bridge or Thopter Foundry protection to a Karn ultimate which has immediately prompted scoops ending the game.
However, the main reason is how much of a sleeper effect the +4 effect is worth. Often times, game states devolve into situations where everyone has tried to "go off" and everyone is spent. During these times, a favorable topdeck can usually dictate who can pull ahead. In games 3-5 players, an unmolested Karn can keep other players' hands in control while managing any top decked threats they play. My deck consists of about 50% mana sources with a 35/15 split of lands and artifacts. For those times that I'm top decking nothing but mana and for whatever reason I don't have another engine up to grind card advantage out of, Karn can keep other players in check until I get there or until Karn ends the game himself.
For me Karn Liberated is included more for its game function than a deck function.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I am already running Ensnaring Bridge. It's great at stopping combat, but it does it too well. It basically forces anyone with attacking as part of their strategy to blow it up. What I was looking for in Norn's Annex was a card to dissuade casual attacks from me to other players. It's not going to have an effect on players set on attacking into you, but I was thinking it might redirect the casual attack that crop up from often having no blockers while not being as critical or threatening as to require immediate removal. Forcefield already does this effectively against larger creatures, but not against swarms.
Add some sac outlets like
And you can sometimes stumble into neat little combos completely by accident. It's really fun to play the deck and each game you're working over the pieces you have and seeing how they interact with one another. To me at least this prevents the deck from getting stale as a result of just tutoring for the same combo every game.
UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU
WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW
BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB
GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
The deck has been playing for a few months now and has undergone some significant revisions. The most major changes have been to the mana base, making the deck more reliable and less clunky. Currently the cards on the chopping block are the Cranial Plating and the Darksteel Ingot.
Yeah, I'm still a bit iffy on it to be honest though. I consider it one of the weaker cards in the deck.
I read that article years ago when it came out in Duelist and it had a huge impact on my outlook on deck building. I'm glad that they republished it on the web, sometimes is nice to go back and reread the fundamentals.
Frantic Search >> Swords to Plowshares
Impulse >> Vindicate
My manabase is also running particularly smooth now and I am looking at trimming one of the three drop rainbow rocks. At the moment I am looking at Darksteel Ingot for Darksteel Forge. It retains most of the animation plays that were there previously, but also provides some different levels of protection. With disk, it also closes the game pretty quickly.
Be careful not to rely too hard on Forge. It's very Clunky, almost impossible to cast, and a huge blow-out if it gets bounced or tucked in response to a Disk activation.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
One of the other cards that I am looking at is the Myr Matrix. It animates into an indestructible 5/5, and it throws out artifact 2/2 tokens. It's somewhat inefficient, but its a worthwhile end of turn mana-dump.
Cranial Plating: General/Inkmoth kills just didn't happen frequently so it was more commonly equipped to Wurmcoil or Steelwind. Useful, but underwhelming.
Duplicant: Six mana is a steep price (even for exile) when the deck has the three strongest removal colors.
Venser: Slow, clunky, and rarely resolved more than one trigger. Replaced with Master Transmuter which suffers similar issues, but enjoys greater synergies with the deck.
Time Spiral: Replaced with Blue Sun's Zenith which can double as a win condition in conjunction with Mind's Eye and infinite mana.
Cut:
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Baleful Strix
1x Blasting Station
1x Cranial Plating
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Duplicant
1x Esper Panorama
1x Mox Diamond
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Rhystic Study
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Time Spiral
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Vindicate
1x Whispering Madness
Added:
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Karn Liberated
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Master Transmuter
1x Roar of Reclamation
1x Scrubland
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Tundra
1x Unburial Rites
1x Underground Sea
1x Unexpectedly Absent
Maybe:
Vedalken Orrery
Basalt Monolith
Dross Scorpion
Scrapheap