"Death tried to uncrown me.
But now I return, king of a greater realm."-Karador, Ghost Chieftain
That one line sums up all you need to know about our spectral friend. But gameplay wise Karador is at heart a reanimator deck and what else could you DO with him just look at him his abilities scream reanimator but I will break him down piece by piece.
CMC
5BGW
B Gives us lots of tutoring, kill spells, board wipes, and reanimation.
G Gives us ramp, some (unorthodox) draw, fatties, and creature tutoring.
W Gives us removal in the form of board wipes some protection and other forms of reanimation.
now all of these are grate colors in magic and give us the oh so fun "Rock" playstyle where we ramp, control and then win in whatever way we see fit.
Good things about this deck
The toolbox nature of this deck lets you have answers to whatever your opponents throw at you
Leads to some long fun, interactive games
Board wipes outside of exiling do next to nothing to stop us.
Your graveyard is an extension of your hand
You can win a different way every game
Stomps 1v1 games and can survive in many multiplayer games
Not so good things
Grave hate can end you if it hits at the right time
no prime time any more : (
I have had troubles vs many Mimeoplasm players
Deck and Personal History
I have been playing Magic since a month or so before the M13 pre-release and have loved every moment of it. this is my second commander deck the first being a not so great Olivia Voldaren deck that I will not linger on. This deck I have been playing with and tweaking for the the better part of eight months to don't let that small time frame fool you though, I have played well over 230 games in that time and this had been battle forged vs such terrors as
WUBRG Goodstufs
WUBRG Allies combo/Mazes end
WUBRG Slivers agro
WUB Sharuum super combo/control
WUR Zedruu shenanigans.
WRG Mayael big duds
UBG Mimeoplasm fun
UBG Damia control.
RUG Riku Storm/infinite turns
UR Jhoira bull****
UG Snakes tribal
BW Teysa Tokens/Stax
BR Kaervek pain for the whole table
G Azusa ramp
B Seizan, Help me, Hurt you.
The reason I made this deck was twofold, one I was enthralled with junk reanimator the Legacy deck that utilizes Wild Mongrel and reanimate to cheat out fatties on turn two or three and the scond reason is that I love the colors GW and B. The first iteration of this deck was similar to this list only it utilized Teneb, the Harvester instead of Karador and I found something out; People DO NOT like to get hit with a general and if you didn't hit people then Teneb is no good. Looking for a solution to this problem led me to searching the EDH Decklist Database and there I found Icebear's primer on Karador, and I fell in love "the spectral centaur is mightier than the oldass dragon" or so they say.
My reason to want to write a primer for Karador is that there is NO primer for Karador now since icebear has become inactive and I hope to be able to fill the void that he has left.
"When you find yourself teetering on the edge of oblivion,
mine will be the hands taking pleasure in giving you the final push."—Liliana Vess
This deck is focused on utilizing small creatures with good ETB/LTB effects and things to reanimate them and abuse the abilities of these creatures by triggering them many times over and over. the deck can also tutor these creatures up an (nearly) a moments notice to deal with any problem that arises. One big strength of this deck is that with all the tutoring this deck is one big toolbox that lets you search for the perfect card for any problem you need to put an end to.
A walk through of a game piloting this deck is as follows;
Opening hand you are looking for lands sport removal and ramp and if you are lucky a Sylvan Library.
Early game first -- Hit land drops, ramp and remove any problem cards, be it pesky creatures like elvish piper or enchantments like heartbeat of spring. Basically keep any one enemy from becoming a force to be reckoned with and put an end to any combo pieces or problem cards you see. Use your spot removal and board wipes here and don't be afraid to put out an early fatty to keep attackers back. Here you are playing the police keep the other players in line and the mid game will be much easier.
Mid game -- Start to assemble a greater board presence and tutor up some nice big creatures to turn sideways and put the hurt on the enemy. Try to get an Asceticism to keep you and your army safe. Above all else stay vigilant and keep your opponents from assembling combos or from pulling ahead of you don't be afraid to wipe the board you will be able to come back faster than any deck at the table.
Late game -- If the game gets here I like to win by getting a nice (kinda) uninterruptible kill in the form of using the combo of Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord's 1BG ability with Lord of Extinction for a clean kill on the whole table.
Now bare in mind that this not a super competitive deck so there are no unfun (for me and my playgroup) combos and the deck could be optimized to be much better and in the future I will be trimming the fat and updating accordingly.
"Lord Bolas has shown me how
each miserable little life holds untold resources."-Disciple of Bolas
Deck list time, much like Icebear I will provide two lists One by function and one by card type. In the type decklist the numbers are the CMC of the card.
"In nature, not a single bone or scrap of flesh goes to waste."-Unknown
If you looked at the decklist you probably noticed that almost every creature with few exceptions dose something when it ETB or if it LTB this is because we plan for our cards to die a lot so this way we get the most value out of the cards.
Commander(1)
8 Karador, Ghost Chieftain- The man himself a great general and one of my favorite (obviously) He is better In this deck than his elder Teneb, the Harvester (this started as a Teneb deck) he dose not have to hit to be able to reanimate and is usually only BGW to cast.
Good Stuff(7)
Sensei's Divining Top- This is just a sweet card that I am trying out for a bit.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord-Just a great dude to have he can win the game with a Lord of Extinction
Kessig Cagebreakers- Can swing for the win with a stacked grave yard even just making 6 wolves is great.
Lord of Extinction- See Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord.
Vraska the Unseen- An awesome repeatable source of removal.
Angel of Despair- Vindicate on a stick what more could a reanimator deck want?
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite- can wipe the board vs elves/tokens/slivers she also can pump your wimpy little wood elves into something to be reckoned with.
Sigarda, Host of Herons- With an asceticism out it becomes nearly impossible to kill our army.
Kokusho, the Evening Star- Honestly I got this only to abuse. I have no intention of using this card fairly; it will be all sacing to Vish Kal and then reanimating for the most jerk points possible.
Yosei, the Morning Star-Same with his brother Kokusho I plan to just abuse our white dragon friend and if one player gets to be an ******* well then they will get the good ol' Yosei lock.
Protection(4)
Mindslicer- Scares the other players and we don't mind dumping our hand as we can play most of it again.
Asceticism- Protects our duds nuff said.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed- I will borrow from Icebear here
"This guy is Pure sex. Okay, not creepy, necrophiliac, zombie sex, but delicious recursion and card advantage sex. I cannot say enough good things about Mr. Mikey, except that he is so fine, and he blows my mind. Seriously, card interacts with almost the whole deck."-Icebear
Creature removal (9)
Swords to Plowshares-Romoval and can hit Blightsteel Colossus.
Massacre Wurm- Is a great sweeper vs tokens and can be played multipul times a turn for more efficacy.
Black Sun's Zenith- Board wipe and I have the Promo version so it looks great.
Big Game Hunter- some times reads B kill something other times reads 1BB kill somthing just a solid card.
Bone Shredder- Doom blade on a stick that can kill itself for resurrection.
Day of Judgment- Board wipe nuff said.
Living Death- The best boardwipe in the deck as it puts in a great place to win.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter-Pure joy and with a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
he is even better
Avatar of Woe- spot removal on a stick one of my favorite cards i the deck.
Decree of Pain- Wipes and draws also cycles for another small board wipe.
Non-creature removal (9)
Qasali Pridemage- Naturalize on a stick.
Scavenging Ooze- Is some great graveyard hate that .
Harmonic Sliver- Great combo with Necrotic Sliver.
Necrotic Sliver- Vindicate that can be repeated this is a great card.
Krosan Grip-An uncountable naturalize is nice.
Mortify- Hurr durr spot removal.
Putrefy-Hurr durr spot removal.
Oblivion Ring- Usually exiles planeswalkers.
Sylvan Primordial-Ramps and kills this is very good.
Recursion(6)
Animate Dead-Can get a turn 2 Sheoldred that is fun right? RIGHT?
Eternal Witness-"Value"-LSV.
Karmic Guide- Good recursion that kills itself to be reanimated and it is a judge foil that is just hot.
Reveillark-One of the best recursion things here.
Sun Titan- usuly grabs a wood elf or for extra value an Eternal Witness.
Sheoldred, Whispering One-one of the best cards in the deck she MUST be dealt with or it will take over the game.
Tutor(8)
Enlightened Tutor- Grabs birthing pod 90% of the time.
Green Sun's Zenith- grabs a Birds of Paradise 50% of the time.
Fauna Shaman- will be cut for a Survival of the Fittest as soon as I get one.
Buried Alive- 3cmc search for 3 is very strong. It usually finds Sheoldred and two other fatties.
Jarad's Orders- grabs the two cards I need at the moment and I have a Spanish version this is a good card.
Birthing Pod-WOO a tutor effect with NO downside this is sick one of the best cards into the deck.
Liliana Vess- 5cmc tutor for two is a great thing her ult is also game winning.
Tooth and Nail-This is a great thing to use nine mana on just bring two answers to the battlefield or even just win by garbing a
Draw(5)
Skullclamp- Fills the graveyard and can also draw stupid amounts of cards.
Sylvan Library- fixes our draws and you can put back creatures to draw more cards with Garruk, Caller of Beasts.
Disciple of Bolas- Is a sick sac outlet.
Bloodgift Demon-swings for damage sometimes he is a cool card better than Underworld Connections because it dose not tie up a land.
Garruk, Caller of Beasts-can draw five per turn and his ult is the nuts.
Deadbridge Chant-in this deck it is 100% better than staff of nin.
Ramp/Fixing(12)
Birds of Paradise-cheep easy and fun.
Sol Ring- Do I even have to say it.
Farseek- Grabs a shock and fixes mana.
Sakura-Tribe Elder-this dude dose work for his little cost.
Wood Elves-
Yavimaya Elder-I put in more basics JUST to trigger him more.
Cultivate-Cheep and efficient ramp.
Harrow- I have a full art and it is at INTENT speed which works well
Kodama's Reach- Foil and fun what is not to like.
Solemn Simulacrum- Easily one of the best four drops in the whole deck.
Mirari's Wake- I love this card it is a heartbeat of spring for only you.
Notable Omissions
Fetches-These make my wallet cry But I will be snapping them up If I can get some at a good price.
Golgari Grave-Troll and other Dredge cards- I do not like dredge as a primary strategy because it feels like I am putting all my eggs in one basket.
Survival of the fittest- Same as with the fetches I want it but not at 25$-30$
Debtors' Knell-I have few tutors to find it, and fewer ways to bring it back should it get Naturalized. Instead I put Sheoldred, Whispering One in she is a better Knell the only downside is that that she puts a target on you.
Magus of the Disk – He ended up being too slow and never was there when I needed him.
If you don't want to play Karador (I don't know why you wouldn't he is awesome) here is a little list of other reanimator generals and why I did not play them over Karador.
Adun Oakenshield -Sweet art and name but he is just to slow and you have to still pay for the creature
Bladewing the Risen -He would be sweet in a BR dragon tribal thing but outside of that I would not play him.
Balthor the Defiled -He is a cool and all, but ALL players bring them back so he can help others and we don't want that.
Chainer, Dementia Master -Now he is sweet but it is fragile and you have to pay 3 life every time you reanimate something with Karador it is free.
Geth, Lord of the Vault -Now here is a contender but sadly he can only grab opponents things and that is not to good.
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician -Cool name, but I do not like how it is limited to monogreen and one reanimated thing a turn.
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni -Again like Geth this is sweet but she is limited to opponents things and her Ninjutsu dose not work from the command zone.
Reya Dawnbringer - Mono white, Shelodred is better
Sedris, the Traitor King - He is cool in zombie treble but I do not like that you can't keep the things that you bring back.
Sheoldred, Whispering One - She is sick but she also paints a HUGE target on your back when you play her.
Teneb, the Harvester -This deck was at one point a Teneb deck, but he has to connect to be to reanimate things and that is not as consistent as Karador who's ability is free.
The Mimeoplasm - He is one of the best "reanimator" generals but I do not like BUG as much as BWG.
Wort, Boggart Auntie -Much like the other contenders this is better in a tribal deck.
Xiahou Dun, the One -Eyed-He has to be killed and put in the yard to work and that is kinda weak.
Resiliency- This deck laughs in the face of spot removal and board wipes.
Inevitability-This deck plays the long game, if just given time we can grind advantage over our opponent we will win.
Fun-It is a super fun deck goodness is it fun and that is a strength if I have ever seen one.
Weaknesses
Speed-If another deck is faster than us such as Krenko combo or Riku storm then we can have problems as you can see here there is trend combo is a bad match up and any help I can get here would be awesome.
Graveyard hate-this deck dose not like grave hate of any kind it just ruins our fun to play around it just don't dump everything into your grave and play it safe.
Land destruction-This should be obvious what deck LIKE LD.
Here is where I will be putting everything I have either taken out or I am currently trying out.
+Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter -Angel of Serenity
Vish Kal is just better than AOS he is a better flyer, a sac outlet, and a way to remove more than just three creatures.
+Yosei, the Morning Star -Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Yosei seems to be better to have than Ulamog he can lock a player down and is a cool flyer.
+Kokusho, the Evening Star -Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
I wanted an "I don't want any more friends" button in this deck that I can flip and piss someone off.
+Tooth and Nail -True Believer
Tooth and nail is just a great wincon in itself and I will be trying it out for a bit.
+Skullclamp -Garruk Relentless
Skullclamp dose everything you want it to and more.
-Exotic Orchard +High Market
Market is a good bit better than Orchard
-Viscera Seer +Sensei's Divining Top
This may seem bad BUT I wanted to see if I like top any better
-Knight of the Reliquary +Angel of Despair
Vindicate on a stick what more could a reanimator deck want?
+Vraska the Unseen
An awesome repeatable source of Vindicates.
- Gaddock Teeg
- Wrath of god
+ Day of Judgment
It is a MPR promo and I am weak to promos, It should be a Wrath of God promo and I plan on getting one sometime in the future.
+ Massacre Wurm
I love this card and it is foil, and I wanted a card to take Teeg out for and this fit the bill.
Things I plan on adding soon (waiting to get the cards)
+Regal Force
Thank you to Icebear for inspiring me to make this deck and this primer. I used his primer to get a sense of how to do this this it gave me a good jumping off point for writing and formatting this.
Also this IS a work in progress I plan to finish it in a few days if you see any spelling/grammar mistakes please mention it in the comments
Kozilek and Ulamog seem out of place here. What if they end up in the graveyard and shuffle everything away?
Skullclamp seems like a good one here. Im assuming it was left out on purpose.
Have you considered Life from the Loam? It enables your graveyard and fixes mana very well. It goess great with Knight of the Reliquary as well. I love that synergy in my naya deck.
Oracle of Mul Daya seems like another card that was left out on purpose, is that due to the lower land count? In a simmilar vein you listed Kodama's Reach as a 4 drop.
You have Gaddok Teeg with Black Sun's, could you run Mutilate and Urborg instead? Just a thought. I doubt they come up together a lot but its possible after hundreds of games.
Kozilek is one of the cards that I am looking to cut, although I just got him a few days ago and in the games I have played him he has done well.
Ulamog in this deck reads 11 destroy target permanent and have the best blocker ever. for that reason I have liked him so far, also he is very hard to kill because I usually have Sigarda tutored up as soon as I can.
Skullclamp sounds like a good card and I will look into getting. I have over ten creatures that have only one toughness so it will almost always have a target.
The reason I have excluded Life From the Loam is that I dislike dredge as it leads to me overextending a lot so I don't use it, but if you are better at making such decisions I can see it working well.
The reason that Oracle of Mul Daya has without at least 40+ lands I do not like it but in something a bit more land heavy it would be the nuts.
I see where you are coming from when It comes to Gaddok Teeg and Black Sun's but I have the promo BSZ so I HAVE to use it; it just looks WAY to good.
Also how dose the primer look is the formatting good, also are there any parts that could be written more clearly?
This deck has no trouble "securing land drops" but I see that with Knight of the Reliquary it could be a house Ill try it for a bit.
I have not had a problem with Karoos, because many of the cards I play are cheep enough that loosing a land drop is not that big of a setback.
I ran both High Market and Phyrexian Tower for a time and found them underwhelming. Viscera Seer is much better because it is unlimited instant speed and FREE.
If you don't see the karoos are underwhelming, including both the cipt and how bad it is to have one destroyed, then fine. Run them.
If you found High Market and Tower underwhelming, then I have to disagree. A sac outlet that's also a land is borderline broken in a properly built Karador deck. Plus I never said Viscera Seer was bad; you just don't have enough sac outlets, period.
I really like Oblivion Stone in the deck as well. It's a board wipe that comes back with Sun Titan.
As a straight one to one upgrade, you should consider Necromancy over Animate Dead. The ability to grab a creature at instant speed almost certainly worth the one extra CMC.
I have no idea why I did not think of Oblivion Stone that is a great idea thanks!
I suppose I could try High Market again it may be better than I thought it was.
If the karoos come out then I would just be adding basics, Ill try it for a few games and see if I like it better. The thing is the only guy that runs LD in my meta dose not show up except once a week Ill take those odds for getting my karoos punished.
My deck list has been pretty well refined. I have been playing it for a while, however, the deck is completely void of infinite combos, because I want to try to play "fair."
My deck list has been pretty well refined. I have been playing it for a while, however, the deck is completely void of infinite combos, because I want to try to play "fair."
This deck has worked very well for me, hope it is helpful.
Slum Reaper seems a bit weak, Bone Shredder would be better, however if you go against many voltron strategies that give their general hexproof/shroud then the reaper would be better.
Skullclamp seems better than Grim Backwoods in every way, it is cheaper and can be used many times a turn.
Perilous Forays seems intresting I like the repeatable ramp and combined with cards like Wood elves it could ramp better than an Azusa deck.
I have no idea why I did not think of Oblivion Stone that is a great idea thanks!
I suppose I could try High Market again it may be better than I thought it was.
If the karoos come out then I would just be adding basics, Ill try it for a few games and see if I like it better. The thing is the only guy that runs LD in my meta dose not show up except once a week Ill take those odds for getting my karoos punished.
I think the Karoos are fine if your meta is fairly casual. I'd replace them when you can, but it shouldn't be a priority. They reset Bojuka Bog which is awesome. You should also try and get your hands one Krosan Verge and Murmurring Bosk.
You have Gaddok Teeg with Black Sun's, could you run Mutilate and Urborg instead? Just a thought. I doubt they come up together a lot but its possible after hundreds of games.
There's 13 cards which are shut off by Teeg. I run him in my list, but my deck only has 6 non-creatures with cmc 4+.
Ulamog in this deck reads 11 destroy target permanent and have the best blocker ever. for that reason I have liked him so far, also he is very hard to kill because I usually have Sigarda tutored up as soon as I can.
Have you considered Angel of Despair instead? She vindicates as well, but costs less and isn't anti-synergy with your general.
I ran both High Market and Phyrexian Tower for a time and found them underwhelming. Viscera Seer is much better because it is unlimited instant speed and FREE.
There's 13 cards which are shut off by Teeg. I run him in my list, but my deck only has 6 non-creatures with cmc 4+.
With the sac outlets I am adding to the deck (and the amount of hate my playgroup has for him)I don't think that it will be hard to get rid of him if I have to.
Have you considered Angel of Despair instead? She vindicates as well, but costs less and isn't anti-synergy with your general.
I will admit that one reason that I included the two of The three is that I just love Annihilator and it makes the Timmy in me happy to cast these big crazy monsters.
After a few games today I have decided that I will be getting a High Market when I can
[EDIT]
Any opinions on adding a Mother of runes? It seems that she would be awesome in this as another layer of protection but she may just be to small and not effect the board enough.
Also I played a game with Vish today he was for a lack of better words THE NUTS he is much better than angle of serenity.
The biggest problem with the eldrazi is that they shuffle your graveyard when (not if) they die, which keeps them from being abusable with Karador. That's one of the main points of the sac outlets: reusing etb effects.
If you can, get Tower instead of Market. It's strictly better.
Yup, Vish Kal is a beast in this deck. Also, always remember that he can sac himself in response to exile or tuck effects, same for Karador or other things that you want to protect from those effects.
I don't like Mother in here. You have enough "protection" from non-killing effects with Sac outlets when you add them, and Karador doesn't typically care if he dies.
How about Corpse Dance? It's practically broken in here, especially if you add Angel of Despair and other good etb critters in here. I also like ashnod's altar in combination with it.
Unless you "aren't trying to be a jerk," add Yosei.
The biggest problem with the eldrazi is that they shuffle your graveyard when (not if) they die, which keeps them from being abusable with Karador. That's one of the main points of the sac outlets: reusing etb effects.
I will be cutting Ulamog for an Angel of Despair and I will find something to replace Koz with.
Yup, Vish Kal is a beast in this deck. Also, always remember that he can sac himself in response to exile or tuck effects, same for Karador or other things that you want to protect from those effects.
I nearly made some one ragequit when I saced my whole board then played living death.
How about Corpse Dance? It's practically broken in here, especially if you add Angel of Despair and other good etb critters in here. I also like ashnod's altar in combination with it.
Which three cards do you most fear on the other side of the table? I just got whupped by a Karador deck while playing Rafiq of the Many. I added Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace. Is that enough?
Private Mod Note
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
Have you ever considered Grave Pact? I mean, if they are creature heavy, you can easily whip the board out with a sac outlet.
Also, Genesis Wave. Comboed with the Urborg and Cabal Coffers, you could easily get 20 cards with it and play em onto the field.
What about doubling mana? Such as Mana Reflection or Miari's Wake. I have seriously combo'ed with so much mana!
Also, Altar of Dementia, You could easily mill the opponent out easily with lord of extinction or the Vash Ral dude.
I know its really silly, but poison counters go to 10, right? or 20? Either or, once you get a huge field advantage, just slap on a Triumph of the Hordes, and swing for lethal.
Which three cards do you most fear on the other side of the table? I just got whupped by a Karador deck while playing Rafiq of the Many. I added Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace. Is that enough?
Grave hate is definitely effective, but you have to do it intelligently. Popping a relic at the wrong time could cost you the game. Rest in peace is good, though.
@Rob: Grave Pact can lead to a large advantage, but it will get blown up. Plus it's a dead card unless you have creatures out. A wrath effect will work fine, especially with all the recursion we have.
Mana doublers are fine, but reliance on them instead of actual ramp will hurt you, big time, when the enchantments are gone.
Genesis wave is quite good, but this deck relies on more of a toolbox approach. Besides, blowing tons of mana on a card that randomly gets you cards that MIGHT help isn't very useful for what you need. It's just inefficient unless you have lots and lots of mana. Tutor for exactly what you need, then play it. That's how this deck wins.
Altar is another infinite wincon. Mill with just a creature here and there isn't very useful.
This isn't a swarm deck, so hordes isn't too good here.
Well, in a version i am running, I hold only 17/99 non Permanents. And most of the time I can easily get a hold of 20 mana for x and drop down nearly all 20 cards, and they get board whipped, its easy to come back from, and especially since half of them are creatures. And it isn't a reliance for them, it really speeds things up I figured out, and I just love playing big creatures all at once... But the only down side is once you have most of your mana out, and most of the creatures in the graveyard, it just becomes excess.
And all good cards will get blown up. And besides from the start of the game, you will most likely have 30+ creatures on the field, I usually get around 50+ if I get lucky.
And like I said, most of the time I have a crap ton of creatures in the field, via Avenger of Zendikar and sometimes awakening zone. I can easily get Avenger on the battlefield a few times in a turn for some major creatures. And with Yosei, the Morning Sun, Tapping down an opponent is easy.
Cryogen already suggested angel of despair, which is a lot better then ulamog. A regal force or something might be a decent alternative to kozilek.
Avenger and craterhoof are both awesome for any deck, and especially this one. I also really like acidic slime. .
In my karador deck I run conjurer's closet, and it is a total house. Really helps you get extra value out the EtB/LtB creature triggers. I also second the idea to get a skullclamp.
I also run yosei, and kokusho. Are they out due to price? Because they are awesome. Sunblast angel is also a nice piece of tech, usually a one-way wrath, and has some awesome synergy with yosei, the morning star.
I've also been playtesting DGM's deadbridge chant, and it is turning out to be really awesome. Randomness hurts but the chance to recur non-creatures (stuff I couldn't normally) is great. Are you finding it solid too?
And you were saying you like eldrazi/annihiliator - then maybe try out artisan of kozilek?
Have you ever considered ? I mean, if they are creature heavy, you can easily whip the board out with a sac outlet.
Also, . Comboed with the and , you could easily get 20 cards with it and play em onto the field.
What about doubling mana? Such as or Miari's Wake. I have seriously combo'ed with so much mana!
Also, , You could easily mill the opponent out easily with or the Vash Ral dude.
I know its really silly, but poison counters go to 10, right? or 20? Either or, once you get a huge field advantage, just slap on a , and swing for lethal.
I would rather have an actual board wipe instead of a but it is a very strong card.
I find Gennisis wave to be unfun to play with but it would be a good adition if you like the card.
There is a Miari's Wake in the deck already.
I find that mill works better if it is the primary of the deck this deck is made for the long game not the mill game; although it would be a nice enabler early on I will look into it.
Infect is another "unfun" thing in my book also this deck can easily win without it.
Cryogen already suggested angel of despair, which is a lot better then ulamog. A regal force or something might be a decent alternative to kozilek.
Avenger and craterhoof are both awesome for any deck, and especially this one. I also really like acidic slime. .
In my karador deck I run conjurer's closet, and it is a total house. Really helps you get extra value out the EtB/LtB creature triggers. I also second the idea to get a skullclamp.
I also run yosei, and kokusho. Are they out due to price? Because they are awesome. Sunblast angel is also a nice piece of tech, usually a one-way wrath, and has some awesome synergy with yosei, the morning star.
I've also been playtesting DGM's deadbridge chant, and it is turning out to be really awesome. Randomness hurts but the chance to recur non-creatures (stuff I couldn't normally) is great. Are you finding it solid too?
And you were saying you like eldrazi/annihiliator - then maybe try out artisan of kozilek?
Regal force looks sick there is an acidic slime in here and Avenger is just not my style. Conjurer's closet seems fun but I do not like it very much. I want Yosei, and Kokusho and I plan on getting them as soon as I can.
Deadbridge chant is sweet there is no better way to get free card advantage and sometimes it reanimates something for free it is solid and any [MANA]
GB[/MANA] deck should run it over Staff of Nin..
Which three cards do you most fear on the other side of the table? I just got whupped by a Karador deck while playing Rafiq of the Many. I added Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace. Is that enough?
A smart Karador player will bait your gy hate, which really isn't that much of an issue. Non-black players don't usually run more than Relic and occasionally Tormond's Crypt, and black players may run those in addition to Bojuka Bog and Nihil Spellbomb (although the worst is Withered Wretch and Scavenger Ooze). If you play knowing that you'll get stuff exiled, it's not that hard to bait their removal and then continue playing. What many Karador players don't tend to play around is Humility and Torpor Orb, because they have the mentality that all their value can come in creature form.
In my experience, I have the most difficult time with fast decks. A multiplayer Karador toolbox (at least, mine) wants to spend the first few turns building an unimposing board state and putting a few random dudes in the yard, but once you hit the 6cmc range is when I tend to shift gears and start working on one of my engines. An opponent which plays heavy control (either through permission or just neutralizing my board state via removal and wraths) is going to slow me down. I have a wide variety of ways to gain control of the board, so it doesn't stop me, but it definitely slows me down.
What many Karador players don't tend to play around is Humility and Torpor Orb, because they have the mentality that all their value can come in creature form.
Shh don't tell them our secrets; do you want ALL decks to know our secret weakness! :c
What many Karador players don't tend to play around is Humility and Torpor Orb, because they have the mentality that all their value can come in creature form.
Will you please elaborate on this? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is Orb effective Karador hate or not? Thanks, cryogen!
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Will you please elaborate on this? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is Orb effective Karador hate or not? Thanks, cryogen!
All (well almost all) the creatures my deck, and many Karador decks have good ETB/LTB effects. What Orb and Humility do, is make it so that many of the guys we play have reduced value. They turn a Wood Elves into a three mana 1/1 which is not a card that I want to be playing in my deck. I will have to spend my time finding a disenchant effect before I can continue to play this will slow be down a lot .
A deck featuring Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Who is this Karador fellow, and why should I care about him?
But now I return, king of a greater realm."-Karador, Ghost Chieftain
What is the goal of this deck?
mine will be the hands taking pleasure in giving you the final push."—Liliana Vess
Decklist
each miserable little life holds untold resources."-Disciple of Bolas
Card choices Explained
Other Generals
Strengths and Weaknesses
Change log
Here is where I will be putting everything I have either taken out or I am currently trying out.
Thank you to Icebear for inspiring me to make this deck and this primer. I used his primer to get a sense of how to do this this it gave me a good jumping off point for writing and formatting this.
Also this IS a work in progress I plan to finish it in a few days if you see any spelling/grammar mistakes please mention it in the comments
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
Skullclamp seems like a good one here. Im assuming it was left out on purpose.
Have you considered Life from the Loam? It enables your graveyard and fixes mana very well. It goess great with Knight of the Reliquary as well. I love that synergy in my naya deck.
Oracle of Mul Daya seems like another card that was left out on purpose, is that due to the lower land count? In a simmilar vein you listed Kodama's Reach as a 4 drop.
You have Gaddok Teeg with Black Sun's, could you run Mutilate and Urborg instead? Just a thought. I doubt they come up together a lot but its possible after hundreds of games.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Ulamog in this deck reads 11 destroy target permanent and have the best blocker ever. for that reason I have liked him so far, also he is very hard to kill because I usually have Sigarda tutored up as soon as I can.
Skullclamp sounds like a good card and I will look into getting. I have over ten creatures that have only one toughness so it will almost always have a target.
The reason I have excluded Life From the Loam is that I dislike dredge as it leads to me overextending a lot so I don't use it, but if you are better at making such decisions I can see it working well.
The reason that Oracle of Mul Daya has without at least 40+ lands I do not like it but in something a bit more land heavy it would be the nuts.
I see where you are coming from when It comes to Gaddok Teeg and Black Sun's but I have the promo BSZ so I HAVE to use it; it just looks WAY to good.
Also how dose the primer look is the formatting good, also are there any parts that could be written more clearly?
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
Take out the Karoos when you can. They aren't worth the possibility of being set back two turns.
Where's High Market or Phyrexian Tower? Your deck is missing sac outlets, big time.
I have not had a problem with Karoos, because many of the cards I play are cheep enough that loosing a land drop is not that big of a setback.
I ran both High Market and Phyrexian Tower for a time and found them underwhelming. Viscera Seer is much better because it is unlimited instant speed and FREE.
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
If you found High Market and Tower underwhelming, then I have to disagree. A sac outlet that's also a land is borderline broken in a properly built Karador deck. Plus I never said Viscera Seer was bad; you just don't have enough sac outlets, period.
I really like Oblivion Stone in the deck as well. It's a board wipe that comes back with Sun Titan.
As a straight one to one upgrade, you should consider Necromancy over Animate Dead. The ability to grab a creature at instant speed almost certainly worth the one extra CMC.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
I suppose I could try High Market again it may be better than I thought it was.
If the karoos come out then I would just be adding basics, Ill try it for a few games and see if I like it better. The thing is the only guy that runs LD in my meta dose not show up except once a week Ill take those odds for getting my karoos punished.
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Artifacts
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Birthing Pod
1 Skullclamp
Creatures (45, keep it high)
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Shriekmaw
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Wood Elves
1 Havoc Demon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Mindslicer
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Reveillark
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Archon of Justice
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Fierce Empath
1 Acidic Slime
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Duplicant
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Seedguide Ash
1 Slum Reaper
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Stonecloaker
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Voidstone Gargoyle
1 Spike Weaver
1 Fertilid
1 Withered Wretch
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Pact
1 Sylvan Library
1 Aura Shards
1 Perilous Forays
1 Debtors' Knell
Sorcery
1 Living Death
1 Damnation
1 Austere Command
1 Wrath of God
1 Demonic Tutor
Instant
1 Vampiric Tutor
Planeswalker
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands
1 Command Tower
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Verdant Catacombs
9 Forest
5 Plains
6 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 High Market
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Krosan Verge
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Diamond Valley
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Grim Backwoods
This deck has worked very well for me, hope it is helpful.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Slum Reaper seems a bit weak, Bone Shredder would be better, however if you go against many voltron strategies that give their general hexproof/shroud then the reaper would be better.
Skullclamp seems better than Grim Backwoods in every way, it is cheaper and can be used many times a turn.
Perilous Forays seems intresting I like the repeatable ramp and combined with cards like Wood elves it could ramp better than an Azusa deck.
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
I think the Karoos are fine if your meta is fairly casual. I'd replace them when you can, but it shouldn't be a priority. They reset Bojuka Bog which is awesome. You should also try and get your hands one Krosan Verge and Murmurring Bosk.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
There's 13 cards which are shut off by Teeg. I run him in my list, but my deck only has 6 non-creatures with cmc 4+.
Have you considered Angel of Despair instead? She vindicates as well, but costs less and isn't anti-synergy with your general.
Seer is good, but I have to echo just how good Phyrexian Tower and to a lesser extent High Market are.
====
My list is similar to IceBear's as well, but I go balls to the wall with abusing Karmic/'lark and other combos. You may get some ideas as well.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
With the sac outlets I am adding to the deck (and the amount of hate my playgroup has for him)I don't think that it will be hard to get rid of him if I have to.
I will admit that one reason that I included the two of The three is that I just love Annihilator and it makes the Timmy in me happy to cast these big crazy monsters.
After a few games today I have decided that I will be getting a High Market when I can
[EDIT]
Any opinions on adding a Mother of runes? It seems that she would be awesome in this as another layer of protection but she may just be to small and not effect the board enough.
Also I played a game with Vish today he was for a lack of better words THE NUTS he is much better than angle of serenity.
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
If you can, get Tower instead of Market. It's strictly better.
Yup, Vish Kal is a beast in this deck. Also, always remember that he can sac himself in response to exile or tuck effects, same for Karador or other things that you want to protect from those effects.
I don't like Mother in here. You have enough "protection" from non-killing effects with Sac outlets when you add them, and Karador doesn't typically care if he dies.
How about Corpse Dance? It's practically broken in here, especially if you add Angel of Despair and other good etb critters in here. I also like ashnod's altar in combination with it.
Unless you "aren't trying to be a jerk," add Yosei.
I will be cutting Ulamog for an Angel of Despair and I will find something to replace Koz with.
I nearly made some one ragequit when I saced my whole board then played living death.
That sounds fun I will look into getting one.
I want to get him and his black brother they just seem to much fun to abuse.
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
Also, Genesis Wave. Comboed with the Urborg and Cabal Coffers, you could easily get 20 cards with it and play em onto the field.
What about doubling mana? Such as Mana Reflection or Miari's Wake. I have seriously combo'ed with so much mana!
Also, Altar of Dementia, You could easily mill the opponent out easily with lord of extinction or the Vash Ral dude.
I know its really silly, but poison counters go to 10, right? or 20? Either or, once you get a huge field advantage, just slap on a Triumph of the Hordes, and swing for lethal.
Grave hate is definitely effective, but you have to do it intelligently. Popping a relic at the wrong time could cost you the game. Rest in peace is good, though.
@Rob: Grave Pact can lead to a large advantage, but it will get blown up. Plus it's a dead card unless you have creatures out. A wrath effect will work fine, especially with all the recursion we have.
Mana doublers are fine, but reliance on them instead of actual ramp will hurt you, big time, when the enchantments are gone.
Genesis wave is quite good, but this deck relies on more of a toolbox approach. Besides, blowing tons of mana on a card that randomly gets you cards that MIGHT help isn't very useful for what you need. It's just inefficient unless you have lots and lots of mana. Tutor for exactly what you need, then play it. That's how this deck wins.
Altar is another infinite wincon. Mill with just a creature here and there isn't very useful.
This isn't a swarm deck, so hordes isn't too good here.
And all good cards will get blown up. And besides from the start of the game, you will most likely have 30+ creatures on the field, I usually get around 50+ if I get lucky.
And like I said, most of the time I have a crap ton of creatures in the field, via Avenger of Zendikar and sometimes awakening zone. I can easily get Avenger on the battlefield a few times in a turn for some major creatures. And with Yosei, the Morning Sun, Tapping down an opponent is easy.
Avenger and craterhoof are both awesome for any deck, and especially this one. I also really like acidic slime. .
In my karador deck I run conjurer's closet, and it is a total house. Really helps you get extra value out the EtB/LtB creature triggers. I also second the idea to get a skullclamp.
I also run yosei, and kokusho. Are they out due to price? Because they are awesome. Sunblast angel is also a nice piece of tech, usually a one-way wrath, and has some awesome synergy with yosei, the morning star.
I've also been playtesting DGM's deadbridge chant, and it is turning out to be really awesome. Randomness hurts but the chance to recur non-creatures (stuff I couldn't normally) is great. Are you finding it solid too?
And you were saying you like eldrazi/annihiliator - then maybe try out artisan of kozilek?
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
Things that send icy shards of into my heart when playing
I would rather have an actual board wipe instead of a but it is a very strong card.
I find Gennisis wave to be unfun to play with but it would be a good adition if you like the card.
There is a Miari's Wake in the deck already.
I find that mill works better if it is the primary of the deck this deck is made for the long game not the mill game; although it would be a nice enabler early on I will look into it.
Infect is another "unfun" thing in my book also this deck can easily win without it.
Regal force looks sick there is an acidic slime in here and Avenger is just not my style. Conjurer's closet seems fun but I do not like it very much. I want Yosei, and Kokusho and I plan on getting them as soon as I can.
Deadbridge chant is sweet there is no better way to get free card advantage and sometimes it reanimates something for free it is solid and any [MANA]
GB[/MANA] deck should run it over Staff of Nin..
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
A smart Karador player will bait your gy hate, which really isn't that much of an issue. Non-black players don't usually run more than Relic and occasionally Tormond's Crypt, and black players may run those in addition to Bojuka Bog and Nihil Spellbomb (although the worst is Withered Wretch and Scavenger Ooze). If you play knowing that you'll get stuff exiled, it's not that hard to bait their removal and then continue playing. What many Karador players don't tend to play around is Humility and Torpor Orb, because they have the mentality that all their value can come in creature form.
In my experience, I have the most difficult time with fast decks. A multiplayer Karador toolbox (at least, mine) wants to spend the first few turns building an unimposing board state and putting a few random dudes in the yard, but once you hit the 6cmc range is when I tend to shift gears and start working on one of my engines. An opponent which plays heavy control (either through permission or just neutralizing my board state via removal and wraths) is going to slow me down. I have a wide variety of ways to gain control of the board, so it doesn't stop me, but it definitely slows me down.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Shh don't tell them our secrets; do you want ALL decks to know our secret weakness! :c
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW
All (well almost all) the creatures my deck, and many Karador decks have good ETB/LTB effects. What Orb and Humility do, is make it so that many of the guys we play have reduced value. They turn a Wood Elves into a three mana 1/1 which is not a card that I want to be playing in my deck. I will have to spend my time finding a disenchant effect before I can continue to play this will slow be down a lot .
BGW Karador's Ghostly ToolboxBGW