Ok, this EDH thing is crazy ... so many choices! Its like learning to deckbuild all over again!
So, I've been kind of avoiding building an EDH deck because there's so much about how games play that I don't know, but I was finally lured in by the possibility of running both Ninjas and Rogues in the same deck, along with discovering Sygg, River Cutthroat, who is all kinds of awesome for both creature types. Here's what I have so far; note that (*) means I already own it.
Ok, so I think it needs a tons of work, and I'd really appreciate any pointers you folks might have. Like, is the Ninja/Rogue thing not a focused enough thing to go for? Do I need more answers to threats? (I'm guessing yes) Maybe most importantly, what jank should I toss out?
One thing to note:
I'm marginally employed at the moment and thus am on an extreme budget. Nothing over dollar, really, since I'll need to buy 50% of the deck. Even if everything is a dollar, $50 is hard to justify at the moment. The money cards in the list are cards I already own, with an exception of a couple 1-2 dollar cards like Sygg and Oona.
For one I would stay away from cards like Ghostform and Distortion Strike that don't accomplish much and also don't cantrip. You don't want to draw a situational card that you can't trade away, and you want as much card advantage as possible.
Maybe more equipment for your creatures? You need some way to buff your creatures so they can win.
what are you win conditions? your general doesn't win you the game. you would need to pump him a ton with equipment and such.
If that is win con 1, what are your others? personally, I like to have at least 2 (pref 3 or 4) win conditions.whether it is a soft lock combo, a "deal woth this card or lose" card, a general based win, or an infinite combo (I don't play those. frowned apon in my eyes). so make sure you have enough win cons where you feel if someone ruins one plan, you have at least one other way to handle it.
remember your theme! ninjas and rogues are sick. I love this idea. I've actually been meaning to do it for a while. it looks like your main theme is the creature types which means you need to back them up. counterspells/removal seem to be the options for ub. I like running at least 3-4 spot removal and 1 or 2 perm based spot removal (think viscara the dreadful or gravepact ), and at least 1 or 2 sweeps (for this deck, I would think of cyclonic rift ). I say a bounce type of card because it follows your theme, at least I think so. also, 3 counterspells is not enough in my opinion. 1/11 chance to pull a counter. if you're going to run something, I'd run at least 4-5 of a theme. any less and you'll probably not get them as much as you'd like.
That being said, I like leaving myself 2-3 cards that are just "I want to play these, they are cool" cards.
this ties back into the wincon section but I feel it deserves it's own point: you may want to put more cards in that synergize well with your general. make sure if your general is out, it is being used. have some bleed effects (painful quandary perhaps? anything to trigger his ability.
one card I was thinking of that would be a house is dire undercurrents. which lead me to thinking... why not have more of a discars theme? then you open yourself up to more punishment effects like liliana's caress, mindcrank , and megrim. it is ub afterall. discard is begging to be shown love. plus, in a format that draws a lot of cards, this could be helpful. there are also ways to force your opponents to draw. like temple bell, bloodgift demon , sign in blood , arcane denial , and blue sun's zenith . these cards are great because you can use them to draw for yourself if they have cards and you need more or if you need them to draw cards to discard.
a card that could use a little more builsing around, but could be a lot of fun in a deck like this breathstealer's crypt. you would need more life gain options and possibly even spring for a card like sanguine bond . but that is just a thought. I may be getting too far from what you want to do with your deck.
you're lack of toughness makes it easy for pesky red or back players to blow you up. might want to find some bigger evasion creatures or a way to pump more consistently.
that many instant speed evasion cards seems dangerous. I'd rather look for lands to function as evasion, perms that give it, and cut back the amount. but that's just personal opinion.
one final recommendation I will male is this: test play the crap out of it. if you need more sweeps and less targeted removal:adjust. if you want more targeted removal:include it. these games can be long. make sure the deck fits with what you want it to do. make sure you enjoy it.
I look forward to the updated list. and I'd I get a chance to put one together like this, ill be sure to let you know.
Jeez, so many choices! It's like trying to decide what jelly to get for your peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Jelly, jam, or marmalade? Grape, strawberry, raspberry, or blackberry? Welch's or Smucker's? Is this the real life, or is it just fantasy? I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE!!
Ok, rant over ...
First change is - Tormented Soul. He doesn't trigger Prowl or Sygg by himself, and can't chump.
For one I would stay away from cards like Ghostform and Distortion Strike that don't accomplish much and also don't cantrip. You don't want to draw a situational card that you can't trade away, and you want as much card advantage as possible.
Maybe more equipment for your creatures? You need some way to buff your creatures so they can win.
So, Opposition and Vela are awesome, but I don't want to invest even a couple of dollars for them. But
+ Keep Watch, + Coastal Piracy, + Guile, and + Bonesplitter for pump.
Day of the Dragons awesome, but somewhat situational. Also, I don't have a way to kill it to get my stuff back. But I guess other people would want to do that anyways ... I'll keep it in the back of my head as an option because it can potentially knock a player out.
First of all, thanks for all the fantastic feedback, man, I greatly appreciate it! You're right, though, that my current wincon is a bit weak, basically swinging with evasive creatures, only 4 of which are fatties, + 2 fatty ninjas. Some help in that field is Infathom Witch, Oona's Blackguard, and Stinkdrinker Bandit pumping my weanies. Also added Bonesplitter. Quietus Spike helps make life-totals a little more manageable. I can make more pumpable weanies via Oona, Queen of the Fae and Notorious Throng.
As for alt wins, I currently only run two. Oona is one, since she can start decking one person while sending flyers at the other. Dunno that decking would really work, since there's 100 cards to get through. The other is Phage the Untouchable, who is honestly one of my "I'm running this JUST BECAUSE, OK?!" cards. I can make her unblockable by several means though, so that's cool. But really, those are my only "deal with this or else" cards.
counterspells/removal seem to be the options for ub. I like running at least 3-4 spot removal and 1 or 2 perm based spot removal (think visara the dreadful or gravepact), and at least 1 or 2 sweeps (for this deck, I would think of cyclonic rift). I say a bounce type of card because it follows your theme, at least I think so. also, 3 counterspells is not enough in my opinion. 1/11 chance to pull a counter. if you're going to run something, I'd run at least 4-5 of a theme. any less and you'll probably not get them as much as you'd like.
have some bleed effects (painful quandary perhaps? anything to trigger his ability.
Brilliant. + Painful Quandary, + Bloodchief Ascension. Ascension is a dollar more than I can spend, but whatever, its awesome. With Quandary in play, the player takes damage no matter what. Keep in mind though, this deck isn't about Sygg, its about Ninjas and Rogues.
why not have more of a discard theme?
While those suggestions are pretty great, and could lead to a pretty sick deck, it causes mine to lose focus and drift away from the inspiration, which is, again, Ninjas and Rogues. Also, I don't have fun playing control, and excessive discard tends to tick people off. Although, if you decide to run that route in your build, the Quandary/Acension duo above gets all the more nasty.
As for the rest of your suggestions, Breathstealer's Crypt seems pretty good, but I'm gonna keep it on the backburner until I playtest some more. Dunno when I'll be able to do that, though. Sanguine Bond is way out of my price range, and I'd have to build around it to make it useful.
Quote from deadpool848 »
How does Notion Thief Sound? I think stealing other peoples draw spells is pretty neat and on theme.
That's a pretty neat card that I've already thought about, but is also on the backburner for now, since I have a good amount of card draw already. But it's a Rogue, so I'll keep it in mind.
To both deadpool and DivinePanda, post your build here, or link to your own thread. I'd be very interested in seeing it. Here's a link to a thread from a couple years ago running Sygg and Ninjas, but no Rogues: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3501245
I have a problem now, though. I've got 108 cards in my deck (111 w/ lands to compensate). What else should I take out?
Also, what's YOUR favorite combination for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?
Edit: Also, are there lands that make creatures unblockable besides Rogue's Passage?
So, I've been kind of avoiding building an EDH deck because there's so much about how games play that I don't know, but I was finally lured in by the possibility of running both Ninjas and Rogues in the same deck, along with discovering Sygg, River Cutthroat, who is all kinds of awesome for both creature types. Here's what I have so far; note that (*) means I already own it.
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
Ninjas
2 Higure, the Still Wind (*)
3 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni (*)
4 Mistblade Shinobi (*)
5 Ninja of the Deep Hours (*)
6 Okiba-Gang Shinobi (*)
7 Silent-Blade Oni (*)
8 Throat Slitter (*)
Ninjutsu/Prowl Enablers
9 Crafty Pathmage (*)
10 Faerie Impostor
11 Infiltrator il-Kor
12 Inkfathom Infiltrator
13 Invisible Stalker (*)
14 Keymaster Rogue
15 Latchkey Faerie
16 Dimir Infiltrator
17 Minamo Sightbender
18 Nightshade Stinger
19 Ornithopter (*)
20 Surveilling Sprite
21 Thalakos Seer
22 Tormented Soul (*)
23 Prickly Boggart
24 Shadow Alley Denizen
General Utility Creatures
25 Dimir House Guard
26 Earwig Squad
27 Faerie Harbinger
28 Frogtosser Banneret
29 Oona's Blackguard
30 Stinkdrinker Bandit
31 Avatar of Woe (*)
32 Darksteel Colossus (*)
33 Deep-Sea Kraken
34 Inkfathom Witch (*)
35 Oona, Queen of the Fae
36 Phage the Untouchable (*)
Counterspells
37 Cancel
38 Counterspell (*)
39 Hinder
Making Stuff Unblockable
40 Shadow Rift
41 Whispersilk Cloak (*)
42 Artful Dodge (*)
43 Distortion Strike (*)
44 Ghostform
45 Dauthi Embrace
Mana Fixing
46 Dimir Signet
47 Expedition Map (*)
48 Pentad Prism (*)
49 Talisman of Dominance (*)
50 Wayfarer's Bauble (*)
Utility Stuff
51 Mind's Eye (*)
52 Sensei's Divining Top (*)
53 Tormod's Crypt
54 Noggin Whack
55 Knowledge Exploitation
56 Syphon Mind (*)
57 Syphon Soul (*)
58 Oversold Cemetery (*)
59 Rhystic Study (*)
60 Sword of Fire and Ice (*)
61 Quietus Spike
62 Blatant Thievery (*)
63 Notorious Throng
Land (37)
64 Bojuka Bog
65 Creeping Tar Pit
66 Darkslick Shores
67 Darkwater Catacombs
68 Dimir Guildgate
69 Drowned Catacomb
70 Jwar Isle Refuge
71 Rogue's Passage (*)
72 Rootwater Depths
73 Salt Marsh
74 Secluded Glen
75 Underground River
76 Waterveil Cavern
88 Island (*)
100 Swamp (*)
Ok, so I think it needs a tons of work, and I'd really appreciate any pointers you folks might have. Like, is the Ninja/Rogue thing not a focused enough thing to go for? Do I need more answers to threats? (I'm guessing yes) Maybe most importantly, what jank should I toss out?
One thing to note:
I'm marginally employed at the moment and thus am on an extreme budget. Nothing over dollar, really, since I'll need to buy 50% of the deck. Even if everything is a dollar, $50 is hard to justify at the moment. The money cards in the list are cards I already own, with an exception of a couple 1-2 dollar cards like Sygg and Oona.
So what do you all think?
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Opposition
Coastal Piracy
Vela the Night-Clad
Guile
Day of the Dragons
For one I would stay away from cards like Ghostform and Distortion Strike that don't accomplish much and also don't cantrip. You don't want to draw a situational card that you can't trade away, and you want as much card advantage as possible.
Maybe more equipment for your creatures? You need some way to buff your creatures so they can win.
WUBRGReaper KingGRBUW 5c Blink [Less Competitive]
WBEvershrikeBW Orzhov Enchantments [Less Competitive]
GIwamori of the Open FistG Green Smash [Less Competitive]
RGWUInk-Treader NephilimUWGR Draw Too Many Cards [More Competitive]
URJhoira of the GhituRU Izzet Stax [More Competitive]
URGRiku of Two ReflectionsGRU Ceta Dredge [More Competitive]
Modern
RUGBNightshiftBGUR Like Scapeshift but bad
Decks:
> Commander:
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Scion of the Ur-Dragon (Dragon Tribal)
what are you win conditions? your general doesn't win you the game. you would need to pump him a ton with equipment and such.
If that is win con 1, what are your others? personally, I like to have at least 2 (pref 3 or 4) win conditions.whether it is a soft lock combo, a "deal woth this card or lose" card, a general based win, or an infinite combo (I don't play those. frowned apon in my eyes). so make sure you have enough win cons where you feel if someone ruins one plan, you have at least one other way to handle it.
remember your theme! ninjas and rogues are sick. I love this idea. I've actually been meaning to do it for a while. it looks like your main theme is the creature types which means you need to back them up. counterspells/removal seem to be the options for ub. I like running at least 3-4 spot removal and 1 or 2 perm based spot removal (think viscara the dreadful or gravepact ), and at least 1 or 2 sweeps (for this deck, I would think of cyclonic rift ). I say a bounce type of card because it follows your theme, at least I think so. also, 3 counterspells is not enough in my opinion. 1/11 chance to pull a counter. if you're going to run something, I'd run at least 4-5 of a theme. any less and you'll probably not get them as much as you'd like.
That being said, I like leaving myself 2-3 cards that are just "I want to play these, they are cool" cards.
this ties back into the wincon section but I feel it deserves it's own point: you may want to put more cards in that synergize well with your general. make sure if your general is out, it is being used. have some bleed effects (painful quandary perhaps? anything to trigger his ability.
one card I was thinking of that would be a house is dire undercurrents. which lead me to thinking... why not have more of a discars theme? then you open yourself up to more punishment effects like liliana's caress, mindcrank , and megrim. it is ub afterall. discard is begging to be shown love. plus, in a format that draws a lot of cards, this could be helpful. there are also ways to force your opponents to draw. like temple bell, bloodgift demon , sign in blood , arcane denial , and blue sun's zenith . these cards are great because you can use them to draw for yourself if they have cards and you need more or if you need them to draw cards to discard.
a card that could use a little more builsing around, but could be a lot of fun in a deck like this breathstealer's crypt. you would need more life gain options and possibly even spring for a card like sanguine bond . but that is just a thought. I may be getting too far from what you want to do with your deck.
you're lack of toughness makes it easy for pesky red or back players to blow you up. might want to find some bigger evasion creatures or a way to pump more consistently.
that many instant speed evasion cards seems dangerous. I'd rather look for lands to function as evasion, perms that give it, and cut back the amount. but that's just personal opinion.
one final recommendation I will male is this: test play the crap out of it. if you need more sweeps and less targeted removal:adjust. if you want more targeted removal:include it. these games can be long. make sure the deck fits with what you want it to do. make sure you enjoy it.
I look forward to the updated list. and I'd I get a chance to put one together like this, ill be sure to let you know.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
EDH
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion
Decks:
> Commander:
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Scion of the Ur-Dragon (Dragon Tribal)
Ok, rant over ...
First change is - Tormented Soul. He doesn't trigger Prowl or Sygg by himself, and can't chump.
Second, + Phyrexian Reclamation (*), to get my dead creatures back.
I've got that one. I updated the list to show what which cards I own. Also, as I said, I'm on an extreme budget. No more swords for me.
So, Opposition and Vela are awesome, but I don't want to invest even a couple of dollars for them. But
+ Keep Watch, + Coastal Piracy, + Guile, and + Bonesplitter for pump.
Day of the Dragons awesome, but somewhat situational. Also, I don't have a way to kill it to get my stuff back. But I guess other people would want to do that anyways ... I'll keep it in the back of my head as an option because it can potentially knock a player out.
You and TheDevinePanda have convinced me:
- Artful Dodge, - Distortion Strike, -Ghostform, -Shadow Rift
+ Dauthi Trapper
First of all, thanks for all the fantastic feedback, man, I greatly appreciate it! You're right, though, that my current wincon is a bit weak, basically swinging with evasive creatures, only 4 of which are fatties, + 2 fatty ninjas. Some help in that field is Infathom Witch, Oona's Blackguard, and Stinkdrinker Bandit pumping my weanies. Also added Bonesplitter. Quietus Spike helps make life-totals a little more manageable. I can make more pumpable weanies via Oona, Queen of the Fae and Notorious Throng.
As for alt wins, I currently only run two. Oona is one, since she can start decking one person while sending flyers at the other. Dunno that decking would really work, since there's 100 cards to get through. The other is Phage the Untouchable, who is honestly one of my "I'm running this JUST BECAUSE, OK?!" cards. I can make her unblockable by several means though, so that's cool. But really, those are my only "deal with this or else" cards.
Finally, there's a chance to steal wincons via Ink-eyes, Servant of Oni, Silent-Blade Oni, Blatant Thievery, and Knowledge Exploitation.
Good thing I'm running Visara's predecessor, Avatar of Woe, who appears better in EDH? I think. But yea, more removal and protection. That Rift card is great.
+ Cyclonic Rift, + Reckless Spite (*), + Murder, + Doom Blade (*), + Go for the Throat (*), + Undermine
Brilliant. + Painful Quandary, + Bloodchief Ascension. Ascension is a dollar more than I can spend, but whatever, its awesome. With Quandary in play, the player takes damage no matter what. Keep in mind though, this deck isn't about Sygg, its about Ninjas and Rogues.
While those suggestions are pretty great, and could lead to a pretty sick deck, it causes mine to lose focus and drift away from the inspiration, which is, again, Ninjas and Rogues. Also, I don't have fun playing control, and excessive discard tends to tick people off. Although, if you decide to run that route in your build, the Quandary/Acension duo above gets all the more nasty.
As for the rest of your suggestions, Breathstealer's Crypt seems pretty good, but I'm gonna keep it on the backburner until I playtest some more. Dunno when I'll be able to do that, though. Sanguine Bond is way out of my price range, and I'd have to build around it to make it useful.
That's a pretty neat card that I've already thought about, but is also on the backburner for now, since I have a good amount of card draw already. But it's a Rogue, so I'll keep it in mind.
To both deadpool and DivinePanda, post your build here, or link to your own thread. I'd be very interested in seeing it. Here's a link to a thread from a couple years ago running Sygg and Ninjas, but no Rogues: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3501245
I have a problem now, though. I've got 108 cards in my deck (111 w/ lands to compensate). What else should I take out?
Also, what's YOUR favorite combination for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?
Edit: Also, are there lands that make creatures unblockable besides Rogue's Passage?