Once upon a time I was listening to Commandercast and the venerable Andy mentioned the idea of a mono-red mill deck built around Wheel of Fortune effects. I was fascinated by the possibility and at the zenith of my deck-building fervor, so I started assembling the parts. The list isn't perfect and I welcome suggestions, but I feel like this is a fairly effective list, depending on your group's relative aggression and power level. I've won a few games with this build, but there is certainly room for improvement.
*I will be updating this explanation in the hope of building towards a primer. Keep checking back!*
If you've already perused the above deck list you'll notice that there is no obvious, conventional path to victory—save perhaps a gigantic Charmbreaker on your last living opponent, copying the table-killing Exsanguinate and having it resolve first, or even Earthquaking your embattled adversaries. While possible, these outcomes are neither probable nor very interesting. No, this pile of red and brown wants to mill its opponents out in a way that makes blue decks green with envy (sick puns!).
There are three basic avenues of milling your opponents with this deck:
1.) Cast one or more Wheel of Fortune-type spells and copy it as many times as possible. Look for Final Fortune and do it again if necessary.
2.) Use Goblin Welder and your various other artifact recursion techniques to activate Memory Jar as many times as possible.
3.) Hit your opponents with Shocker and Barbed Shocker, specifically using Thornbite Staff. (OK, so I like to pretend that one day I'm going to have Kiki-Jiki wielding the staff and then I Earthquake away a dozen stupid plant tokens away and swing in with twelve Barbed Shockers.)
So, Why Slobad?
Nearly a third of the cards in the deck are artifacts, so Slobad provides cheap protection for the stuff that you really want to keep on the battlefield. He serves as a sacrifice outlet, which is not without its advantages. Moreover, he's nearly incapable of winning via general damage, which keeps you honest.
The Strengths of a Red Mill Strategy
Red's wheel effects hit everybody and double as card draw in a color that otherwise lacks breadth of card advantage options. You can burn your wheels early to keep tempo and recur them later for the finish or run a Welder-Jar engine instead.
Each wheel effect hits seven or more cards and usually at a reasonable price, whereas typical blue-based mill decks either rely on a deep pool of unimpressive effects or one-hit kills like Painter-Stone that don't seem all that satisfying.
With the Memory Jar strategy you're actually circumventing Eldrazi-style library replenishment because the cards are exiled temporarily; if you're able to activate Sundial of the Infinite, then they stay gone forever.
If you have a Shocker equipped to a Thornbite Staff and somebody at your table is using tokens for resource conversion money will rain from the sky. Similarly, if anybody is being incredibly greedy, sitting back on a Consecrated Sphinx or some analogous, idiot-proof draw engine, Shocker will be the happiest little insect since A Bug's Life.
Nobody ever sees it coming the first time...and often the second or third.
The Weaknesses of a Red Mill Strategy
While your wheels hit each opponent, you honestly only have a handful of them to deploy. Furthermore, to effectively mill for the win you often need to go all-in on one or two turns to lock the game up. If your opponents are aware of your strategy then they'll likely save their disruption and exile effects for your important pieces, but the good news is that your Fork effects double as counterspells against blue mages. The double bad news is that you're letting your opponents get a fresh hand several times in a single turn. If they have mana open and are looking for specific disruption, they're going to see it eventually.
You have very few ways to prevent your deck from milling itself out along with your opponents. Library of Leng does amazing work, but with LoL you better be able to deploy Elixir a few times or you're SoL. That said, you're playing mono-red, so killing everybody at the table, including yourself, through a mill engine is still awesome.
Those are good suggestions and here is my logic for their omission: This deck doesn't have a lot of ways to avoid damage or recoup the life loss and so Ancient Tomb on top of Mana Crypt seems like it could be a problem. I could see that being a legitimate argument for the Crypt going out and the Tomb going in, but Crypt is there for Slobad/Welding shenanigans more than simply acceleration. Slobad let's me kill it whenever I need to. I sold my Ancient Tomb and somebody gave me a Mana Crypt for my birthday, so that's another reason.
I'm always on the fence about Sol Ring and it just recently got removed. I'm on the fence about how much acceleration this deck needs. It's not necessarily very fast, but you really want to set up game-breaking turns, so who knows. I also just sort of feel like it's a boring card.
I've updated the list I've been using and added a few sections to explain the basic principles of the deck. I'll start working on card choices and interactions next.
I've played four or five games with this deck now and I've yet to actually lose (I had to leave early one session, but I had over twenty cards in my hand on turn 8 or 9). Two of the games I copied Boundless Realms, untapped and dropped Gauntlet of Power and Sculpting Steel, which let me go all of the way. In a 1v1 game I was able to weather their aggro and stabilize. They conceded once they recognized what was going to happen.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Have you considered Altar of Dementia + Ulamog/Kozilek? This gives you another mill outlet and a way of recurring your graveyard if you mill too much to Mesmeric Orb. This will also give you an out through combat to handle decks that run the aforementioned Eldrazi if you aren't able to hit something to turn off their graveyard recursion.
Where's your Dragon Mage yo? Perfect for the flavor of this deck.
I did actually have Dragon Mage in here, but it usually eats up most of my mana for a turn and then immediately dies. I don't think that it's worth running haste effects, save maybe greaves or boots (which I should consider). If I have enough mana to cast him and do other things, then I'm probably close to running one of the other engines that is more reliable. That's my thought on it, but you might be right that its a really good flavor fit and deserves another look.
Thanks! I honestly don't have a great argument for why neither of those are in here. I started building up from the Wheels and the Memory Jar and never got around to including other mill items. With respect to Mesmeric Orb: I've tried to include a lot of recursion, but I am concerned about stuff going into my own yard without my consent. There's not a lot of good ways to get non-instant/sorcery, non artifact goodies back. I suspect this is not a wholly rational consideration. As far as Keening Stone, I've considered it, but it seems so expensive to use, but I guess it would be a one-shot after a few wheels and I could just weld it back into play in the mid/late game.
Vandalblast is pretty cool—I wasn't a big fan of RTR, so I actually didn't know about it. It's definitely worth slotting in if I can find a place for it and get a hold of a Lattice. The only reason Mycosynth Lattice isn't in there right now is because I haven't been able to get one in a trade since I sold mine like a fool. The only thing I don't love about Vandablast+Lattice is that it's basically an alternative win condition.
Have you considered Altar of Dementia + Ulamog/Kozilek? This gives you another mill outlet and a way of recurring your graveyard if you mill too much to Mesmeric Orb. This will also give you an out through combat to handle decks that run the aforementioned Eldrazi if you aren't able to hit something to turn off their graveyard recursion.
I had once pondered running my own Eldrazi to recoup my graveyard, but then I literally just forgot about it. I have a flavor concern about being able to just crush people with Ulamog rather than milling them, but more pragmatically I wonder if it would matter that I lose a bit of control over what I keep in my graveyard. Does this seem like it would be an issue? I suppose repeatedly drawing Fork effects would potentially very strong.
Thanks again for posting and if you have anything to add or any rebuttals to my immediate reactions I would love to read them.
I had once pondered running my own Eldrazi to recoup my graveyard, but then I literally just forgot about it. I have a flavor concern about being able to just crush people with Ulamog rather than milling them, but more pragmatically I wonder if it would matter that I lose a bit of control over what I keep in my graveyard. Does this seem like it would be an issue? I suppose repeatedly drawing Fork effects would potentially very strong.
Thanks again for posting and if you have anything to add or any rebuttals to my immediate reactions I would love to read them.
I can't offer a huge amount of advice for the flavor aspect of the deck but from personal experience my friend ran a mono-green deck using Altar of Dementia, Mesmeric Orb, and the Eldrazi to great affect. It'll give you a bit more reach on the mill side of things and it will give you an alternate win for when you cannot mill people out for one reason or another which will happen if your meta adapts well to changes.
Also you may want to consider Howling Mine, Temple Bell, and Font of Mythos which may help you draw more and help mill out opponents at the risk of giving them good cards.
Have you considered Uba Mask? I don't know how much of an impact it would have on you (mainly as I have no experience with your deck :tongue:), but using it with a Wheel effect is essentially a Mindslicer effect plus some draw for you, and even without Wheel effects it totally shuts out counter spells and other instant speed answers. It would nullify Barbed Shocker, but in that situation you can always sacrifice it to Slobad if need be.
Also, awesome choice for your basic lands.
Oh man! Uba Mask--that's so tasty. I love that I could sacrifice it and recur it as necessary. The anti-synergy with the shockers is no big deal as that's hardly the first order strategy.
I love the art on the Tempest lands...I've unfortunately moved to all Ice Age snow mountains though
Could be a good win condition, too. Wheel, Jar, Metalcrafted Molten Psyche, Reiterate, Fork, win.
You know, I actually really like the idea of Molten Psyche as a alternative wincon--it feels flavorful enough and would certainly surprise people. 40 damage would really not be that hard to reach.
You know, I actually really like the idea of Molten Psyche as a alternative wincon--it feels flavorful enough and would certainly surprise people. 40 damage would really not be that hard to reach.
I've had very good success with Molten Psyche as a wincon. It's damage output goes up very quickly with copying. Molten Psyche + Increasing Vengeance often wins on its own if you flash it back.
Casting and flashing it back gives you the original spell plus three copies. The first does their handsize in damage, the second 2x that, the third 3x, and the fourth 4x for a total of 10x their handsize in damage. Just four cards in hand kills a player at full life.
Have you thought about Mindcrank? Abusing other people's strategy to compliment you own seems like a good option.
I don't have experience with it though, anyone else might have an opinion?
I've had very good success with Molten Psyche as a wincon. It's damage output goes up very quickly with copying. Molten Psyche + Increasing Vengeance often wins on its own if you flash it back.
Casting and flashing it back gives you the original spell plus three copies. The first does their handsize in damage, the second 2x that, the third 3x, and the fourth 4x for a total of 10x their handsize in damage. Just four cards in hand kills a player at full life.
I'm definitely going to get a hold of a Molten Psyche and either slot it directly in or have it as a substitution card at more aggressive tables. Right now I have a 50+ card side-in that transforms my deck into Ib Halfheart.
Have you thought about Mindcrank? Abusing other people's strategy to compliment you own seems like a good option.
I don't have experience with it though, anyone else might have an opinion?
Mindcrank is a very interesting option and is sort of passive in the way that Mesmeric Orb is sort of passive. I like that it only costs two mana. Neither of these are dead in a Slobad deck either, that will probably want to weld them into additional Memory Jars or protect Geth's Grimoire.
These are great suggestions and I would love to see more discussion on what to include and....jeeze...what to take out? I haven't played this deck in a minute, so hopefully I can record some results for you all this week.
Thanks!
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*I will be updating this explanation in the hope of building towards a primer. Keep checking back!*
Here's a photo of my deck.
1 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Creatures: 10
1 Goblin Welder
1 Shocker
1 Junk Diver
1 Barbed Shocker
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Anarchist
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Charmbreaker Devils
Enchantments: 2
1 Dual Casting
1 Glacial Crevasses
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Chandra Ablaze
Sorceries: 13
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Earthquake
1 Gamble
1 Recoup
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Chain Reaction
1 Past in Flames
1 Surreal Memoir
1 Incendiary Command
1 Reforge the Soul
1 All Is Dust
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Final Fortune
1 Fork
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Reverberate
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Chaos Warp
1 Reiterate
1 Wild Ricochet
Artifacts: 28
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Codex Shredder
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Library of Leng
1 Sol Ring
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mind Stone
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Surveyor's Scope
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Geth's Grimoire
1 Jester's Cap
1 Trading Post
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Memory Jar
1 Mirari
1 Mirrorworks
1 Caged Sun
1 Spine of Ish Sah
22 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Buried Ruin
1 Great Furnace
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Kher Keep
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
How this Deck Wins
There are three basic avenues of milling your opponents with this deck:
1.) Cast one or more Wheel of Fortune-type spells and copy it as many times as possible. Look for Final Fortune and do it again if necessary.
2.) Use Goblin Welder and your various other artifact recursion techniques to activate Memory Jar as many times as possible.
3.) Hit your opponents with Shocker and Barbed Shocker, specifically using Thornbite Staff. (OK, so I like to pretend that one day I'm going to have Kiki-Jiki wielding the staff and then I Earthquake away a dozen stupid plant tokens away and swing in with twelve Barbed Shockers.)
So, Why Slobad?
The Strengths of a Red Mill Strategy
Each wheel effect hits seven or more cards and usually at a reasonable price, whereas typical blue-based mill decks either rely on a deep pool of unimpressive effects or one-hit kills like Painter-Stone that don't seem all that satisfying.
With the Memory Jar strategy you're actually circumventing Eldrazi-style library replenishment because the cards are exiled temporarily; if you're able to activate Sundial of the Infinite, then they stay gone forever.
If you have a Shocker equipped to a Thornbite Staff and somebody at your table is using tokens for resource conversion money will rain from the sky. Similarly, if anybody is being incredibly greedy, sitting back on a Consecrated Sphinx or some analogous, idiot-proof draw engine, Shocker will be the happiest little insect since A Bug's Life.
Nobody ever sees it coming the first time...and often the second or third.
The Weaknesses of a Red Mill Strategy
You have very few ways to prevent your deck from milling itself out along with your opponents. Library of Leng does amazing work, but with LoL you better be able to deploy Elixir a few times or you're SoL. That said, you're playing mono-red, so killing everybody at the table, including yourself, through a mill engine is still awesome.
Wheel Effects (Win Conditions)
Spot Removal
Board Wipes
Spell Copying
Artifact Recursion
Spell Recursion
Card Advantage Engines
Those are good suggestions and here is my logic for their omission: This deck doesn't have a lot of ways to avoid damage or recoup the life loss and so Ancient Tomb on top of Mana Crypt seems like it could be a problem. I could see that being a legitimate argument for the Crypt going out and the Tomb going in, but Crypt is there for Slobad/Welding shenanigans more than simply acceleration. Slobad let's me kill it whenever I need to. I sold my Ancient Tomb and somebody gave me a Mana Crypt for my birthday, so that's another reason.
I'm always on the fence about Sol Ring and it just recently got removed. I'm on the fence about how much acceleration this deck needs. It's not necessarily very fast, but you really want to set up game-breaking turns, so who knows. I also just sort of feel like it's a boring card.
I've updated the list I've been using and added a few sections to explain the basic principles of the deck. I'll start working on card choices and interactions next.
I've played four or five games with this deck now and I've yet to actually lose (I had to leave early one session, but I had over twenty cards in my hand on turn 8 or 9). Two of the games I copied Boundless Realms, untapped and dropped Gauntlet of Power and Sculpting Steel, which let me go all of the way. In a 1v1 game I was able to weather their aggro and stabilize. They conceded once they recognized what was going to happen.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Suggestions: the one and only Mesmeric Orb and maybe Keening Stone.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade | Karador Apostles | Brago, King Eternal | Talrand the Sky Summoner | Mageta the Lion
I did actually have Dragon Mage in here, but it usually eats up most of my mana for a turn and then immediately dies. I don't think that it's worth running haste effects, save maybe greaves or boots (which I should consider). If I have enough mana to cast him and do other things, then I'm probably close to running one of the other engines that is more reliable. That's my thought on it, but you might be right that its a really good flavor fit and deserves another look.
Thanks! I honestly don't have a great argument for why neither of those are in here. I started building up from the Wheels and the Memory Jar and never got around to including other mill items. With respect to Mesmeric Orb: I've tried to include a lot of recursion, but I am concerned about stuff going into my own yard without my consent. There's not a lot of good ways to get non-instant/sorcery, non artifact goodies back. I suspect this is not a wholly rational consideration. As far as Keening Stone, I've considered it, but it seems so expensive to use, but I guess it would be a one-shot after a few wheels and I could just weld it back into play in the mid/late game.
Vandalblast is pretty cool—I wasn't a big fan of RTR, so I actually didn't know about it. It's definitely worth slotting in if I can find a place for it and get a hold of a Lattice. The only reason Mycosynth Lattice isn't in there right now is because I haven't been able to get one in a trade since I sold mine like a fool. The only thing I don't love about Vandablast+Lattice is that it's basically an alternative win condition.
I had once pondered running my own Eldrazi to recoup my graveyard, but then I literally just forgot about it. I have a flavor concern about being able to just crush people with Ulamog rather than milling them, but more pragmatically I wonder if it would matter that I lose a bit of control over what I keep in my graveyard. Does this seem like it would be an issue? I suppose repeatedly drawing Fork effects would potentially very strong.
Thanks again for posting and if you have anything to add or any rebuttals to my immediate reactions I would love to read them.
Also you may want to consider Howling Mine, Temple Bell, and Font of Mythos which may help you draw more and help mill out opponents at the risk of giving them good cards.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade | Karador Apostles | Brago, King Eternal | Talrand the Sky Summoner | Mageta the Lion
Could be a good win condition, too. Wheel, Jar, Metalcrafted Molten Psyche, Reiterate, Fork, win.
Oh man! Uba Mask--that's so tasty. I love that I could sacrifice it and recur it as necessary. The anti-synergy with the shockers is no big deal as that's hardly the first order strategy.
I love the art on the Tempest lands...I've unfortunately moved to all Ice Age snow mountains though
You know, I actually really like the idea of Molten Psyche as a alternative wincon--it feels flavorful enough and would certainly surprise people. 40 damage would really not be that hard to reach.
Thanks for the suggestions!
I've had very good success with Molten Psyche as a wincon. It's damage output goes up very quickly with copying. Molten Psyche + Increasing Vengeance often wins on its own if you flash it back.
Casting and flashing it back gives you the original spell plus three copies. The first does their handsize in damage, the second 2x that, the third 3x, and the fourth 4x for a total of 10x their handsize in damage. Just four cards in hand kills a player at full life.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
I don't have experience with it though, anyone else might have an opinion?
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
I'm definitely going to get a hold of a Molten Psyche and either slot it directly in or have it as a substitution card at more aggressive tables. Right now I have a 50+ card side-in that transforms my deck into Ib Halfheart.
Mindcrank is a very interesting option and is sort of passive in the way that Mesmeric Orb is sort of passive. I like that it only costs two mana. Neither of these are dead in a Slobad deck either, that will probably want to weld them into additional Memory Jars or protect Geth's Grimoire.
These are great suggestions and I would love to see more discussion on what to include and....jeeze...what to take out? I haven't played this deck in a minute, so hopefully I can record some results for you all this week.
Thanks!