Welcome my friend, in the Dark and Grim World of Dimir Madness.
You have arrived at my secret underground lair, what you will discover will leave you astonished and amazed.
Here I will inform you with the latest news of murder, bribery and shapeshifting.
If you want something, I can provide it... For the right price of course.
Why play Lazav?
What colors does Lazav offer? BLUE: Draw, Bounce, Counters BLACK: Removal, Discard, Recursion, Tutoring
You might like this deck if
You like to kill stuff.
You like to draw cards.
You like a general that is able to protect himself.
You want to see your opponents their desperate faces when they need to discard, mill, ...
Solemn Simulacrum - Helps you ramp and draws you a card! Phantasmal Image - Cheap copy spell (easy to remove a general) Cunning Lethemancer - Each of your upkeeps... so it needs to survive a whole round (but it has a cheap mana cost). Mindslicer - Could backfire, but pretty devastating for all of the players. Stinkweed Imp - Removal: check, Flying: check, Mill: check (But I don't think I have enough reanimation to justify this one). Chainer, Dementia Master - Recursion Consuming Abberation
Instant
Counterspell - Basic, easy counterspell Undermine - Counterspell for 3 mana seems kinda expensive.. and it's very mana intensive) Evacuation - Instant speed, mass bounce. Nice with the ETB effects, and if your opponents are getting to scary Murder - I think I prefer eyeblight's ending (murder requires double black)
Sorcery
Damnation - Decree of Pain - Head Games - Delirium Skeins - Cheap discard spell. Ill-Gotten Gains - How much damage can opponents do with this... Monomania - 'only' 5 mana, so it's 2 cheaper then wit's end, but a player can still decide to keep 1 card. Wit's End - 7 mana is aaaa lot, but if there's a blue player with a nice reliquary tower and a full hand... (very conditional) Traumatize - The top half, seems pretty good ^^ Flux - Players can still choose to discard nothing... Whispering Madness - Windfall on a stick is always nice.
Enchantments
Bloodchief Asenscion - Combo's with Mindcrank (see artifacts) No Mercy - Don't attack me, or you'll lose them. Phyrexian Arena - This or underworld connection... or both. Animate Dead - Cheap reanimation spell (and the graveborn art, is amazing)
I see that your going with a discard/milling theme. Have you considered running Memory Jar and Keening Stone? I also would like the inclusion of Jace's Archivist ; saw him in your considerations and would agree with you. Wheel and Deal might be another instant that would interest you.
I see that your going with a discard/milling theme. Have you considered running Memory Jar and Keening Stone? I also would like the inclusion of Jace's Archivist ; saw him in your considerations and would agree with you. Wheel and Deal might be another instant that would interest you.
Yep, trying my hand at a bit of a control deck =).
- Keening Stone seems very mana intensive (Do you think it's worth it?).
- I need to find a place for Jace's Archivist, but don't really know what to cut.
- Wheel and deal could replace Trade Secrets ^^. (Instant makes it even better!)
Yep, trying my hand at a bit of a control deck =).
- Keening Stone seems very mana intensive (Do you think it's worth it?).
- I need to find a place for Jace's Archivist, but don't really know what to cut.
- Wheel and deal could replace Trade Secrets ^^. (Instant makes it even better!)
Seat & Vault are going in.
Any suggestions on what to cut?
Trade Secrets in now banned. Also im not a fan of Reiver Demon, cost too much in my opinion; though if your going budget I guess he would work.
And I have seen Keening Stone do work on people. Guy in my meta runs a non-combo Oona, Queen of the Fae mill/control deck that runs some cards to steadily fill up graveyards like Jace's Erasure and Hedron Crab, and other things like Traumatize . Then drops the Stone to end a library in one use.
Trade Secrets in now banned. Also im not a fan of Reiver Demon, cost too much in my opinion; though if your going budget I guess he would work.
And I have seen Keening Stone do work on people. Guy in my meta runs a non-combo Oona, Queen of the Fae mill/control deck that runs some cards to steadily fill up graveyards like Jace's Erasure and Hedron Crab, and other things like Traumatize . Then drops the Stone to end a library in one use.
Yep I know secrets got banned, that's why I think the wheel is a good alternative :D.
Reiver demon costs a lot indeed, but as you say, it's a budget option.
The only damnation I have sits in my cube :p.
I need to find room for that Stone then.
Any suggestions what to cut? (Instead of reiver demon, otherwise I'm kinda short on boardwipes :p.)
I think that the combo you describe, although useful, is highly unstable too. I would view the Phantasm as useful in a deck that had more grave recur or cards with Flashback/Unearth.
Can you help me with my Lazav build? People helped me alot with it, but I'm really struggling to solve my land problem (only got 32), and don't know how to proceed or what to cut. You don't have to see it if you don't want to:
Can you help me with my Lazav build? People helped me alot with it, but I'm really struggling to solve my land problem (only got 32), and don't know how to proceed or what to cut. You don't have to see it if you don't want to:
Well, I have 24 creatures and about half of them (11) already have a 4+ mana cost.
The two primordials cost 7 mana, so I would like to have some early creatures too, to be able to black and such.
Do you have any suggestions on what to cut for the primordials?
Or should I play Blatant Thievery for example? ^^
While Exsanguinate can be a very good finisher, I would take the chance to have 2 Wrexials, the other one being in the form of Diluvian Primordial. It adds a touch of versatility: you need a sweeper, a card drawer. a tutor? Diluvian gets them for you.
And for Sepulchral Primordial... I can't find a good spot for him. Maybe experiment?
Blatant Thievery can be very good too. But again, your list seems very tight, it's a matter of experimenting until you find the correct balance.
Hope I helped! =)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't do tactics, I don't do guard duty. I do damage, take it or leave it".
Pithing Needle -> Mindslaver (Nobody likes their general being shut down, Mindslaver is nice and isn't misused/abused in this deck)
Thada Adel -> Pongify
Phyrexian Metamorph -> Counterspell (As soon as I get a Phyrexian Metamorph it will replace the regular clone).
Body Double -> Scattering Stroke (It's like a cheap version of Mana Drain!)
Fleshbag Marauder -> Darkness (Nobody expects a black fog)
Dark Impostor -> Puppeteer Clique (Puppeteer is a perfect addition to the deck)
Wheel and Deal -> Unnerve (Perhaps this should 've stayed Wheel and Deal instead of Unnerve)
Windfall -> Mind Control
Cabal Conditioning -> Sorin Markov (It was a lot of mana, and most of the times not really worth it).
Recurring Insight -> Confiscate
My question is why remove Body Double from the deck? He works amazingly. I also have my personal pause about how good Mind Control really is. You already have 3 other cards to gain control of creatures, I think Body Double works better because you want to play with their graveyard. I also think Soulquake isn't really worth it since you have graveyard play.
I also don't understand Snuff Out it seems weak. I understand you could technically drop it turn 1 if you really need to or you can cast it without any mana but wouldn't Grisly Spectacle fit better since they mill as well?
Hinder or Spell Crumple might be better than Counterspell since you can use it to put their commander away.
Darkness seems kind of weak, one turn without damage won't really be that amazing but another kill spell or board wipe could just be better.
My question is why remove Body Double from the deck? He works amazingly. I also have my personal pause about how good Mind Control really is. You already have 3 other cards to gain control of creatures, I think Body Double works better because you want to play with their graveyard. I also think Soulquake isn't really worth it since you have graveyard play.
I also don't understand Snuff Out it seems weak. I understand you could technically drop it turn 1 if you really need to or you can cast it without any mana but wouldn't Grisly Spectacle fit better since they mill as well?
Hinder or Spell Crumple might be better than Counterspell since you can use it to put their commander away.
Darkness seems kind of weak, one turn without damage won't really be that amazing but another kill spell or board wipe could just be better.
Hmm interesting, very interesting ^^.
I can totally follow you on some points.
Mind control.. I would rather have Treachery (is way better and fits the theme, but alas it's not easy to find and not really in my budget).
I thought Soulquake was good, because people will have a full hand, and will need to discard at the end of their turns, so I was hoping they would drop some goodies. Nonetheless, your explanation is great, why not to add it ^^.
Reason I choose Counterspell, is because it's cheaper and because Lazav can actually transform in something. When I use Hinder or Spell Crumple I wouldn't be able to do that, because the spell doesn't go to their graveyards.
I don't really like to tuck commanders (except voltrons perhaps), because it takes away the pleasure of playing with it. I can understand why alot of people do though, if I'll ever encounter really problematic generals it's easily replaced.
You're right on Darkness as well.
Consuming Aberration and Mind Grind are great ^^!
Snuff Out can stop combo's, when you're tapped out. I like Grisly too, but Grisly requires 4 mana. Perhaps I should change Eyeblight's Ending with Grisly...
Couple of changes:
- Mind Control -> Body Double
- Darkness -> Mind Grind
I've been so busy with my Kresh deck, that I didn't have any time to fill in the rest of my Lazav thread :/.
Deck made a couple of changes (I'll fill them in, next week when I finally have some time =))
I've ordered:
- Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
- Consuming Aberration
- Mana Breach (Still thinking if I want to include it in here)
Welcome my friend, in the Dark and Grim World of Dimir Madness.
You have arrived at my secret underground lair, what you will discover will leave you astonished and amazed.
Here I will inform you with the latest news of murder, bribery and shapeshifting.
If you want something, I can provide it... For the right price of course.
Why play Lazav?
What colors does Lazav offer?
BLUE: Draw, Bounce, Counters
BLACK: Removal, Discard, Recursion, Tutoring
You might like this deck if
You might not like this deck if
Decklist
1 Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Artifacts
1 Crawlspace
1 Darksteel ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mesmeric Orb
1 Mind Stone
1 Mindslaver
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
Creatures
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Body Double
1 Cemetery Puca
1 Clone
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Dreamborn Muse
1 Evil Twin
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Kiku, Night's Flower
1 Magus of the Jar
1 Mulldrifter
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Royal Assassin
1 Reiver Demon
1 Scythe Specter
1 Stronghold Rats
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Instant
1 Counterspell
1 Echoing Truth
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Memory Plunder
1 Pongify
1 Reckless Spite
1 Scattering Stroke
1 Snuff Out
Sorcery
1 Acquire
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Grim Discovery
1 Life's Finale
1 Mind Grind
1 Rite of Replication
1 Stolen Identity
1 Spelltwine
1 Syphon Mind
1 Tidings
1 Unnerve
Enchantments
1 Control Magic
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Confiscate
1 Forced Fruition
1 Rhystic Study
1 Underworld Connections
1 Sorin Markov
Lands
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Terrain Generator
1 Command Tower
1 Tainted Isle
1 Frost Marsh
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Barren Moor
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Temple of the False God
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Buried Ruin
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Seat of the Synod
9 Swamp
9 Island
Trinket Mage Package
- Sol Ring
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Expedition Map
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Pithing Needle
- Vault of the Whispers
- Seat of the Synod
Card Options
Artifacts
Mindcrank - If you want to combo with Bloodchief Ascension
Solemn Simulacrum - Helps you ramp and draws you a card!
Phantasmal Image - Cheap copy spell (easy to remove a general)
Cunning Lethemancer - Each of your upkeeps... so it needs to survive a whole round (but it has a cheap mana cost).
Mindslicer - Could backfire, but pretty devastating for all of the players.
Stinkweed Imp - Removal: check, Flying: check, Mill: check (But I don't think I have enough reanimation to justify this one).
Chainer, Dementia Master - Recursion
Consuming Abberation
Instant
Counterspell - Basic, easy counterspell
Undermine - Counterspell for 3 mana seems kinda expensive.. and it's very mana intensive)
Evacuation - Instant speed, mass bounce. Nice with the ETB effects, and if your opponents are getting to scary
Murder - I think I prefer eyeblight's ending (murder requires double black)
Sorcery
Damnation -
Decree of Pain -
Head Games -
Delirium Skeins - Cheap discard spell.
Ill-Gotten Gains - How much damage can opponents do with this...
Monomania - 'only' 5 mana, so it's 2 cheaper then wit's end, but a player can still decide to keep 1 card.
Wit's End - 7 mana is aaaa lot, but if there's a blue player with a nice reliquary tower and a full hand... (very conditional)
Traumatize - The top half, seems pretty good ^^
Flux - Players can still choose to discard nothing...
Whispering Madness - Windfall on a stick is always nice.
Enchantments
Bloodchief Asenscion - Combo's with Mindcrank (see artifacts)
No Mercy - Don't attack me, or you'll lose them.
Phyrexian Arena - This or underworld connection... or both.
Animate Dead - Cheap reanimation spell (and the graveborn art, is amazing)
Planeswalkers
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Jace, Memory Adept - Mill 10 is pretty straight forward.
Tezzeret the Seeker - Helps you to find some mana rocks, and other stuff. (Is it worth the 5 mana?)
Land
Maze of Ith (Excluded because of the price tag)
Sunken Ruins
Underground Sea (Excluded because of the price tag)
Underground River
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Change Log
24/04/2013
Trade secrets (BANNED) -> Exsanguinate
Phyrexian Infiltrator -> Phyrexian Metamorph
Swamp -> Drowned Catacomb
Swamp -> Tainted Isle
Island -> Nephalia Drownyard
25/04/2013
Swamp -> Vault of Whispers
Island -> Seat of the Synod
27/04/2013
Mirror-Mad Phantasm -> Keening Stone
28/04/2013
Laboratory Maniac -> Jace's Archivist
04/05/2013
Muddle the Mixture -> Wheel and Deal
Keening Stone -> Echoing Truth
Exsanguinate -> Fleshbag Marauder
1/06/2013
Pithing Needle -> Mind Slaver
Thada Adel -> Pongify
Phyrexian Metamorph -> Counterspell
Body Double -> Scattering Stroke
Fleshbag Marauder -> Darkness
Dark Impostor -> Puppeteer Clique
Wheel and Deal -> Unnerve
Windfall -> Mind Control
Cabal Conditioning -> Sorin Markov
Recurring Insight -> Confiscate
2/06/2013
Mind Control -> Body Double
Darkness -> Mind Grind
Wishlist
Bribery
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Apart form that I would urge you to pick up a Seat of the Synod and Vault of Whispers for your Trinket Mage package.
Signature made by Rivenor at Miraculous Recovery Signatures
EDH
[Primer] - BRG Adun Oakenshield: Jund Stax/Recycle Bin GRB
BRG Shatterbros Shenanigans GRB
Yep, trying my hand at a bit of a control deck =).
- Keening Stone seems very mana intensive (Do you think it's worth it?).
- I need to find a place for Jace's Archivist, but don't really know what to cut.
- Wheel and deal could replace Trade Secrets ^^. (Instant makes it even better!)
Seat & Vault are going in.
Any suggestions on what to cut?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Trade Secrets in now banned. Also im not a fan of Reiver Demon, cost too much in my opinion; though if your going budget I guess he would work.
And I have seen Keening Stone do work on people. Guy in my meta runs a non-combo Oona, Queen of the Fae mill/control deck that runs some cards to steadily fill up graveyards like Jace's Erasure and Hedron Crab, and other things like Traumatize . Then drops the Stone to end a library in one use.
Signature made by Rivenor at Miraculous Recovery Signatures
EDH
[Primer] - BRG Adun Oakenshield: Jund Stax/Recycle Bin GRB
BRG Shatterbros Shenanigans GRB
Yep I know secrets got banned, that's why I think the wheel is a good alternative :D.
Reiver demon costs a lot indeed, but as you say, it's a budget option.
The only damnation I have sits in my cube :p.
I need to find room for that Stone then.
Any suggestions what to cut? (Instead of reiver demon, otherwise I'm kinda short on boardwipes :p.)
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
It's actually in there to combo with Laboratory Maniac :tongue:.
I think that's a good cut.
Do you also think the maniac is out of place here?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
My suggestion is snap cut Mirror-Mad Phantasm and Laboratory Maniac for Keening Stone and Jace's Archivist.
Also, you could consider Whispering Madness, Bloodchief Ascension or Traumatize. Especially the Ascension, it's nuts with mill.
The maniac has been replaced with Jace's archivist.
Any suggestions on what else to cut?
Your help is greatly appreciated !
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Snap. That happens for not reading xD. Sorry.
Another thing you could include are Sepulchral Primordial and Diluvian Primordial.
Can you help me with my Lazav build? People helped me alot with it, but I'm really struggling to solve my land problem (only got 32), and don't know how to proceed or what to cut. You don't have to see it if you don't want to:
[Mill-Shapeshifting] Lazav, Dimir Mastermind [Mill-Shapeshifting]
Well, I have 24 creatures and about half of them (11) already have a 4+ mana cost.
The two primordials cost 7 mana, so I would like to have some early creatures too, to be able to black and such.
Do you have any suggestions on what to cut for the primordials?
Or should I play Blatant Thievery for example? ^^
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
And for Sepulchral Primordial... I can't find a good spot for him. Maybe experiment?
Blatant Thievery can be very good too. But again, your list seems very tight, it's a matter of experimenting until you find the correct balance.
Hope I helped! =)
What are the thoughts on Fleshbag Marauder, Innocent Blood, Consuming Aberration and Silent-Blade Oni? =)
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Seems nice together with Stolen Identity :D.
EDIT: Banner is almost ready! ^^
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
No oppinions on Fleshbag Marauder, Innocent Blood, Consuming Aberration and Silent-Blade Oni or Shadowmage Infiltrator?
Or thoughts about the curve of the deck? =)
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Pithing Needle -> Mindslaver (Nobody likes their general being shut down, Mindslaver is nice and isn't misused/abused in this deck)
Thada Adel -> Pongify
Phyrexian Metamorph -> Counterspell (As soon as I get a Phyrexian Metamorph it will replace the regular clone).
Body Double -> Scattering Stroke (It's like a cheap version of Mana Drain!)
Fleshbag Marauder -> Darkness (Nobody expects a black fog)
Dark Impostor -> Puppeteer Clique (Puppeteer is a perfect addition to the deck)
Wheel and Deal -> Unnerve (Perhaps this should 've stayed Wheel and Deal instead of Unnerve)
Windfall -> Mind Control
Cabal Conditioning -> Sorin Markov (It was a lot of mana, and most of the times not really worth it).
Recurring Insight -> Confiscate
I still need to find some room for Solemn Simulacrum, Consuming Abberation.
And currently thinking about adding Chainer, Dementia Master, Head Games.
And perhaps I should change Echoing Truth for Evacuation.
Any thougts and suggestions-cuts are greatly appreciated!
EDIT: Just discovered: Soulquake! What are the thoughts on this one?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
I also don't understand Snuff Out it seems weak. I understand you could technically drop it turn 1 if you really need to or you can cast it without any mana but wouldn't Grisly Spectacle fit better since they mill as well?
Hinder or Spell Crumple might be better than Counterspell since you can use it to put their commander away.
Darkness seems kind of weak, one turn without damage won't really be that amazing but another kill spell or board wipe could just be better.
Consuming Aberration and Mind Grind would be amazing mill choices here.
R Ashling the Pilgrim [EDH]
GB Meren of Clan Nel Toth [EDH]
URG Animar, Soul of Elements [EDH]
BGW Doran, the Siege Tower [EDH]
GRW Marath of the Wild[EDH]
Hmm interesting, very interesting ^^.
I can totally follow you on some points.
Mind control.. I would rather have Treachery (is way better and fits the theme, but alas it's not easy to find and not really in my budget).
I thought Soulquake was good, because people will have a full hand, and will need to discard at the end of their turns, so I was hoping they would drop some goodies. Nonetheless, your explanation is great, why not to add it ^^.
Reason I choose Counterspell, is because it's cheaper and because Lazav can actually transform in something. When I use Hinder or Spell Crumple I wouldn't be able to do that, because the spell doesn't go to their graveyards.
I don't really like to tuck commanders (except voltrons perhaps), because it takes away the pleasure of playing with it. I can understand why alot of people do though, if I'll ever encounter really problematic generals it's easily replaced.
You're right on Darkness as well.
Consuming Aberration and Mind Grind are great ^^!
Snuff Out can stop combo's, when you're tapped out. I like Grisly too, but Grisly requires 4 mana. Perhaps I should change Eyeblight's Ending with Grisly...
Couple of changes:
- Mind Control -> Body Double
- Darkness -> Mind Grind
So thinking about something to cut for Consuming Aberration and Grisly Spectacle.
Thanks for the help Lucif!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Deck made a couple of changes (I'll fill them in, next week when I finally have some time =))
I've ordered:
- Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
- Consuming Aberration
- Mana Breach (Still thinking if I want to include it in here)
Note to myself:
I still need to acquire (Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Sword of Body and Mind, Mind Grind, Black Sun's Zenith, Solemn Simulacrum and Jace's Archivist.)
Small question, what do you prefer and why: Body Double or Rise from the Grave?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris