I have played the Boros color combination for quite a while now. This deck is an evolution of my old Brion Stoutarm deck from when I first started playing commander. That deck went from the stereotypical steal and fling type of deck to a monstrosity that semi-resembled Gaka's Norin list, then something that was still ETB focused but not as chaotic. When Jor came out I decided I wanted him to be the new face of my boros decks then I got distracted by new badass etb guys. After Phil wrote the stax primer I final got around to making a Jor Kadeen deck. This is an evolving list and I will try to keep this as up to date as possible. I am happy to take any suggestions into consideration. If I can get enough traction going with this deck I would like to eventually make this thread into a full on primer.
Strategy [spoiler] Your best opportuinity to win with this deck is your first game with a group of players, seriously. After that first game they are going to know what you are up to and will probably start gunning for you from the beginning.
When you get your opening hand you want to see a few things, you obviously want some land, you also need a mana rock or so, you also need to have some sort of Stax element in your opening hand, it can be some MLD an Orb or one of the other disruption pieces. After you get a keeper your plan should be to drop rocks and ramp into some MLD or a Stax piece to start gumming up the board. DO NOT OVEREXTEND! it can be really easy to do this in this color combo but no matter what you must resist the temptation to do so. Once you have some disruption going and are in a position where you have an advantage drop Jor Kadeen and start going to town. Your opponents will ideally not be able to sweep the board for several turns at least which hopefully will provide the opportunity to take an opponent or 2 out of the game.
Lands:
[SPOILER] Mishra's Workshop: Tapping for 3 mana is pretty good, only being able to use it to cast artifacts is a downside but isn't so bad in this deck
Darksteel Citadel: helps turn on metalcraft and survives Armageddon.
Ancient Tomb: this almost feels like having another Sol Ring sometimes.
Maze of Ith: stops an attacking creature and a mainstay of commander.
Inkmoth Nexus: alternate win condition, plus I love manlands
Kher Keep: helps to feed Smokestack and the tokens can be pumped to help win. [/SPOILER] MLD/stax/tax
[SPOILER] Blind Obedience: a mini Kismet, it doesn't affect lands but it only costs 2 and has extort.
Sphere of Resistance: adds a one mana tax to everything cast, slows everyone down a turn.
Austere Command: Very versatile sweeper, sometimes it is better to wield the scalpel than the sledgehammer. [/SPOILER]
Equipment
[SPOILER] Skullclamp: when I think of equipment I think of this one first. Main reason for this is turning creatures that are doomed into precious, precious card draw.
Sword of Light and Shadow: see Sword of Feast and Famine. I need to buy Fire and Ice and War and Peace I would like to include them as well. [/SPOILER]
Token Makers
[SPOILER] Goblin Assault: feeds Smoke Stack like a champ.
I'm not sure about Mox Diamond. Sure, I get that mana rocks are good with MLD. But are you trying to ramp out a big LD spell as soon as possible, to the extent that you need a T1 mox? I know you might not mind missing a land drop and having an artifact, but it's still a bit of card disadvantage, which is not what RW needs. I guess I just don't see Stax as an archetype that needs an explosive start. If you feel your list does, feel free to ignore me.
I'm not a big fan of Jokulhaups in here, since it will more often than not leave you with nothing in an artifact-heavy Jor list. I mean, if you land it with a planeswalker or token making enchantment, it's golden, but you seem too artifact-heavy to make it asymmetrical nearly often enough.
While I'm thinking about planeswalkers, consider Ajani Vengeant.
Outside of Smokestack and I guess Trading Post, I don't see a lot of sac outlets to power Martyr's Bond. I guess it works as a deterrent, or helps you block productively, but I can't see your deck taking as much advantage of it as you could. It's amazing with Cataclysm, though. Have you considered Razia's Purification? I'd tentatively advise to add the one or cut the other.
Love the Station package, but how good do you anticipate Pyrite Spellbomb being?
I'm not sure about Mox Diamond. Sure, I get that mana rocks are good with MLD. But are you trying to ramp out a big LD spell as soon as possible, to the extent that you need a T1 mox? I know you might not mind missing a land drop and having an artifact, but it's still a bit of card disadvantage, which is not what RW needs. I guess I just don't see Stax as an archetype that needs an explosive start. If you feel your list does, feel free to ignore me.
I'm not a big fan of Jokulhaups in here, since it will more often than not leave you with nothing in an artifact-heavy Jor list. I mean, if you land it with a planeswalker or token making enchantment, it's golden, but you seem too artifact-heavy to make it asymmetrical nearly often enough.
While I'm thinking about planeswalkers, consider Ajani Vengeant.
Outside of Smokestack and I guess Trading Post, I don't see a lot of sac outlets to power Martyr's Bond. I guess it works as a deterrent, or helps you block productively, but I can't see your deck taking as much advantage of it as you could. It's amazing with Cataclysm, though. Have you considered Razia's Purification? I'd tentatively advise to add the one or cut the other.
Love the Station package, but how good do you anticipate Pyrite Spellbomb being?
Would there be any value in running fewer nonbasics and using Ruination?
Good points.
I have no idea how skullclamp got over looked, same for Ajani V seeing as I have both if them on my paper list I was working off of. As far as Pyrite Spellbomb I have it in the deck mostly for draw and a grinding win con if need be. I agree Martyr's Bind could probably go. Razia's Purification I was not familiar with I will add it. Jokulhaups will probably come out too. Ruination is a good possibility to go in, I had forgot about it.
Right now I am doing theorycrafting on the deck before I order what I need.
I knew I was forgetting something in my recursion section, welder is a must play, it is actually most of the reason Myr Retriever and Junk Diver are in the deck. Hero of Blade Hold got overlooked somehow and Assemble the Legion will have yup find a spot too. Thanks for pointing those out, hopefully I get some time after class today to get on a computer to edit my list, I'm posting from my phone and it kind of sucks trying to post/ edit a deck list.
I'm not sure how I feel about the salvaging station package in these colors. I've never looked at the package, but I can only imagine it's dependent on the station. I can't pull up the individual cards, but it doesn't look like there's much that can really tutor for the station. I would personally rather have the powerful token producers (like hero of bladehold, siege-gang) in these cards slots. Additionally: Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul?
Edit: I know you said you want to test with 40 lands, but that will definitely be way too many. Your curve is pretty low, so unless you plan on hitting Armageddon third turn I don't think you will need all that. Land Tax is also huge here, and I'd recommend pulling a land out for that. Why not try 38 lands with land tax in one of their spots?
I'd say his Station package is fine. If he never draws the station, his baubles are all perfectly serviceable, retrievable with Sun Titan, several usable with Trading Post.
Random card that would be good in your deck most of the time: Unwinding Clock. Especially with Static Orb out. Get to use your Salvaging STation on everyone else's turn. Make more Luminarch Ascension and Mobilization tokens. Lots of fun.
I'd say his Station package is fine. If he never draws the station, his baubles are all perfectly serviceable, retrievable with Sun Titan, several usable with Trading Post.
Random card that would be good in your deck most of the time: Unwinding Clock. Especially with Static Orb out. Get to use your Salvaging STation on everyone else's turn. Make more Luminarch Ascension and Mobilization tokens. Lots of fun.
All of the baubles seem decent, but by no means excellent. Granted they come down super cheap and enable metalcraft. I'd just rather have something to swing in with, but I guess that's just my playstyle shining through
Once I get a land tax it will go in along with scroll rack. I am going to reconsider Unwinding Clock, I thought about it before. I also need to find a spot for Enlightened Tutor. I really want to try Salvaging Station out so it is gong to survive the initial cut down, but if it doesn't perform it will go.
Mobilization is an easy cut. You do not want to pay for your tokens after the initial investment. If you have to have that card in there just use Kher Keep instead.
Hero of Bladehold is the MVP of the deck but Myr Battlesphere and Precurson Golem are solid too.
Battlesphere goes nice with your mana dorks and is amazing on its own. Precursor gives you metalcraft and a lot of power, but one of my favorite tricks is to Path to Exile him after I Armegeddon:kank:.
Razia's Purification is pretty bad for 6 mana. It's good, sure, but by the time you have 6 mana you should have better things to do.
If you run that much mana attached to your artifacts and all those orbs you want to keep Unwinding Clock. It will crack the symmetry open better than about any other option you have.
Your basic land count is really low. You should be looking for a manabase that supports Blood Moon and Koth.
1 Battlefield Forge - Don't need it.
1 Buried Ruin - too expensive to use. Putting you back a land does hurt.
1 Rishadan Port - Huh?
1 Wasteland - Maybe.
1 Dust Bowl - You don't need any more land destruction than you have.
You need to cut down your land count to 35/36 or 40. So how does that work...a deck with 40 lands and 16 mana rocks, ~56% of your deck is mana. Land Tax with high amount of basics will support Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon well. Take advantage of your non-basic hate, and utilize this stragetical advantage to the fullest.
Best of luck with Jor Kadeen Stax :). If your friends are mature and understanding enough, they won't mad at you for playing Stax.
By the way, Salvaging Station is only worth it with 10 dedicated deck slots which most decks can't afford. In Grixis, I have it as a recursion engine as an alternate win condition. Remember the rule of your Salvaging Station and 60 card graveyard gets Tormod's Crypt'd, shake it off and reconfigure your game plan.
Yeah. I was going to suggest dropping it all together. Jor works as an aggro token deck once the Stax does its thing... so don't durdle around too much. Drain people, and pounce.
I'm glad I'm not the only one hating on the station package
Although I think I realized what I was doing wrong with my list. I think I focused too much on getting JK and a beater in play before getting a decent drain / stax setup online. Maybe I will to tune my list a little more and play a bit differently.
Thanks for the advise Galspanic, BaconoftheArk and Nurse.Jason I think I will take out the station package to focus more on the stax elements. I'm not really sure about using very many ETB effects since Torpor Orb seems to be pretty common at the store I play at. Mobilization will come out for assemble the legion .
What should I replace the station and associated cards for?
I feel like I need to run some spot removal for lands because of Cradle and Coffers.
Any other critiques? I am going to update this tomorrow after school.
The before mentioned Hero of Bladehold will become your favorite card in the deck.
Batterskull. You can sac the germ to a stax effect, equip it, bring it back to your hand, maintain your life total, and smash face.
Boom // Bust should be in any red LD deck, because sometimes you just want to Boom.
As Galspanic said, Myr Battlesphere and Precursor Golem. He pointed out the cool play of casting Path to Exile on your own Precursor Golem with floated mana after a land wipe. Oblation on the golem is also kind of neat.
EDIT: As you're considering packages, goblins can contribute a lot to stax in red. Squee, Goblin Nabob is classic sac fodder. Fun to discard with a Rummaging Goblin. Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker can copy any of your dudes for sac fodder, and copying a Myr Battlesphere, Precursor Golem, or even Hero can be pretty sweet. Goblin Matron will search up your Kiki who will copy the Matron to start a chain of goblin tutoring, of course getting your Krenko as well. The only thing you're dumping a fair bit of mana into is Kiki-Jiki, everything else is cheap sac fodder that swings for 4 or 5 with Jor Kadeen, all recurrable with Sun Titan. I used this in a different style Jor Kadeen control build, but it could serve your needs.
I am also thinking about adding a small goblin package with Moggcatcher to tutor up my goblins. I played a goblin package in my Brion Stoutarm list forever and really fell in love with the utility of it, plus who doesn't love tutoring a Goblin Settlers to nuke a players fresh land after a 'Geddon? Also does anyone have any input on maybe adding Sunforger, i personally do not think it would be worth it/ viable in this particular list but i would like a little input.
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All > Enlightened Tutor
Real men just pay through counters. The deck is close to be regular enough that there are no single game breaking plays... just a lot of little grinders.
Static Orb > Chaos Warp
You have enough lock down effects. If you have too many you can't seal the deal. Remember, it's not about murdering the game in the face. It's about setting it up so that you come out ahead on the attrition war.
Martyr's Bond > Oblation
Sweet card but at 6 it's too little too late. I run it in Ghave because of Ghave's ability, but it's really hard to get 6 mana worth of value of it without some easily accessible sac outlet. Also, without Academy Rector it's less sexy.
Expedition Map > Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker
You don't have any lands you really need to tutor for and without Salvaging Station it's not really good. If you do need a land tutor got for one that ramps like Solemn Simulacrum (who should probably be in here anyway since he ramps, is a dude, and fuels your sac outlets.
Moggcatcher > Goblin Recruiter or Goblin Matron. Moggcatcher is too expensive and too slow. You want your cards to do their job as soon as they resolve. Waiting around is bad and paying 7 for a goblin is bad.
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All > Enlightened Tutor
Real men just pay through counters. The deck is close to be regular enough that there are no single game breaking plays... just a lot of little grinders.
Static Orb > Chaos Warp
You have enough lock down effects. If you have too many you can't seal the deal. Remember, it's not about murdering the game in the face. It's about setting it up so that you come out ahead on the attrition war.
Martyr's Bond > Oblation
Sweet card but at 6 it's too little too late. I run it in Ghave because of Ghave's ability, but it's really hard to get 6 mana worth of value of it without some easily accessible sac outlet. Also, without Academy Rector it's less sexy.
Expedition Map > Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker
You don't have any lands you really need to tutor for and without Salvaging Station it's not really good. If you do need a land tutor got for one that ramps like Solemn Simulacrum (who should probably be in here anyway since he ramps, is a dude, and fuels your sac outlets.
Moggcatcher > Goblin Recruiter or Goblin Matron. Moggcatcher is too expensive and too slow. You want your cards to do their job as soon as they resolve. Waiting around is bad and paying 7 for a goblin is bad.
Honesty map was overlooked. It will come out. I was wondering if I had too many lock pieces. Boseiju will come out, but I worry about not having enough land. I will try it though.
Thanks again for all the advise, I appreciate it so very much.
Your list has made me want to update mine and try it again. I'll post it somewhere some time today or tomorrow and we can compare. I truly don't think you will have any problems with drawing land, don't worry!
As far as what everyone has suggested about unwinding clock, I must ask why. Yes, it gives him lots of mana during other people's phases but what's that good for? I see:
Luminarch Ascension
Chump blockers
Popping off an instant if he tapped out.
Side note, you have "6 Cataclysm". Cataclysm costs 4, did you mean catastrophe or did you just goof?
Your list has made me want to update mine and try it again. I'll post it somewhere some time today or tomorrow and we can compare. I truly don't think you will have any problems with drawing land, don't worry!
As far as what everyone has suggested about unwinding clock, I must ask why. Yes, it gives him lots of mana during other people's phases but what's that good for? I see:
Luminarch Ascension
Chump blockers
Popping off an instant if he tapped out.
Side note, you have "6 Cataclysm". Cataclysm costs 4, did you mean catastrophe or did you just goof?
Supposed to be catastrophe. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm bit going to do any editing today because I post from a phone and it is way more effort than I have right now. Also unwinding clock is there to untap my stuff when I have orb effects out and break symmetry of the effects.
You ned to run vicious shadows in this build as well as phyrexian altar and maybe ashnod's as well.
Also more mass land destruction.
You stick a assemble the masses and an altar then wipe out the lands. You now have an alt mana source while the table has nothing. And your token production is strong so with vicious shadows, you're dealing serious damage when your tokens bite the dust.
Replenishmight be another option if your meta is light on yard hate and exile removal.
I run it in my deck even though grave yards don't exist. Just getting back one key enchantment is worth the 4cmc. If you have 3+ enchantments in your yard, well, you are now in awesome city.
Also, since you're running a lock down package, mobilization might be a nice option. Makes tokens and gives all your other solider tokens vigilance.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
You ned to run vicious shadows in this build as well as phyrexian altar and maybe ashnod's as well.
Also more mass land destruction.
You stick a assemble the masses and an altar then wipe out the lands. You now have an alt mana source while the table has nothing. And your token production is strong so with vicious shadows, you're dealing serious damage when your tokens bite the dust.
Replenishmight be another option if your meta is light on yard hate and exile removal.
I run it in my deck even though grave yards don't exist. Just getting back one key enchantment is worth the 4cmc. If you have 3+ enchantments in your yard, well, you are now in awesome city.
Also, since you're running a lock down package, mobilization might be a nice option. Makes tokens and gives all your other solider tokens vigilance.
Any suggestions on cuts for altars? What other MLD am I missing, I know Impending Disaster is missing but that is all that comes to mind. Replenish is going on the wish list. I had Mobilization in the initial list I posted but cut it due to the constant need to feed mana into it.
Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback. I can't wait to get the cards for this and play it.
Any suggestions on cuts for altars? What other MLD am I missing, I know Impending Disaster is missing but that is all that comes to mind. Replenish is going on the wish list. I had Mobilization in the initial list I posted but cut it due to the constant need to feed mana into it.
Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback. I can't wait to get the cards for this and play it.
Actual cataclysm is another MLD option, Jokulhaups (though that sets you back a lot), and Thoughts of Ruin are the only ones I can think of.
You have enough dudes that Militia's Pride might be good.
No humility? Card is a house. So hard for people to deal with.
Not sure I like Myr Battlesphere here. Ajani Vengeant is much stronger. It taps, blows up small dudes and wraths the lands.
Edit: I missed that you had Vengeant. Will look for another replacement.
How about Vicious Shadows?
Looking at the OP's list, his win condition is his general beats. I can't see humility really working out here unless he got a crazy token producer online.
You ned to run vicious shadows in this build as well as phyrexian altar and maybe ashnod's as well.
Also more mass land destruction.
You stick a assemble the masses and an altar then wipe out the lands. You now have an alt mana source while the table has nothing. And your token production is strong so with vicious shadows, you're dealing serious damage when your tokens bite the dust.
Replenishmight be another option if your meta is light on yard hate and exile removal.
I run it in my deck even though grave yards don't exist. Just getting back one key enchantment is worth the 4cmc. If you have 3+ enchantments in your yard, well, you are now in awesome city.
Also, since you're running a lock down package, mobilization might be a nice option. Makes tokens and gives all your other solider tokens vigilance.
What has your experience with shadows been? I've seen it be pretty devastating before, but getting up to 7 mana I almost feel like I'd rather just be destroying all lands.
Deck needs more than one win condition, decks that only have one win condition fold to efficient removal. Beating face with a token that has a sword or a manland with some equipment will win more games than you think. Possibly more than his general.
Vicious Shadows is a solid win condition. Sits at the 7 mana slot just like Myr Battlesphere but is more powerful. Especially in a deck where your opponents have hard time getting cards out of their hand since they can't cast them.
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DCI Level 1 Judge-
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
I have played the Boros color combination for quite a while now. This deck is an evolution of my old Brion Stoutarm deck from when I first started playing commander. That deck went from the stereotypical steal and fling type of deck to a monstrosity that semi-resembled Gaka's Norin list, then something that was still ETB focused but not as chaotic. When Jor came out I decided I wanted him to be the new face of my boros decks then I got distracted by new badass etb guys. After Phil wrote the stax primer I final got around to making a Jor Kadeen deck. This is an evolving list and I will try to keep this as up to date as possible. I am happy to take any suggestions into consideration. If I can get enough traction going with this deck I would like to eventually make this thread into a full on primer.
Strategy [spoiler] Your best opportuinity to win with this deck is your first game with a group of players, seriously. After that first game they are going to know what you are up to and will probably start gunning for you from the beginning.
When you get your opening hand you want to see a few things, you obviously want some land, you also need a mana rock or so, you also need to have some sort of Stax element in your opening hand, it can be some MLD an Orb or one of the other disruption pieces. After you get a keeper your plan should be to drop rocks and ramp into some MLD or a Stax piece to start gumming up the board. DO NOT OVEREXTEND! it can be really easy to do this in this color combo but no matter what you must resist the temptation to do so. Once you have some disruption going and are in a position where you have an advantage drop Jor Kadeen and start going to town. Your opponents will ideally not be able to sweep the board for several turns at least which hopefully will provide the opportunity to take an opponent or 2 out of the game.
Last Update: 3-10-13
1 Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Lands 36
11 Mountain
11 Plains
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Command Tower
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Arid Mesa
1 Strip Mine
1 Ancient Den
1 Great Furnace
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Maze of Ith
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kher Keep
Stax/ Tax/ MLD 19
2 Blind Obedience
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Torpor Orb
2 Winter Orb
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Tangle Wire
3 Static Orb
3 Aura of Silence
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Loxodon Gatekeeper
4 Armageddon
4 Smokestack
4 Kismet
4 Ajani Vengeant
6 Catastrophe
6 Boom//Bust
7 Devastation
10 Decree of Annihilation
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Opal
1 Sol Ring
2 Gold Myr
2 Iron Myr
2 Fire Diamond
2 Marble Diamond
2 Boros Signet
2 Mind Stone
2 Plague Myr
3 Boros Keyrune
3 Palladium Myr
3 Alloy Myr
3 Coalition Relic
3 Chromatic Lantern
Recursion 6
1 Goblin Welder
2 Myr Retriever
3 Junk Diver
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trading Post
6 Sun Titan
Token Makers 9
2 Goblin Assault
2 Luminarch Ascension
3 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Hero of Bladehold
5 Precursor Golem
5 Assemble the Legion
5 Myr Turbine
4 Elspeth Knight-Errant
7 Myr Battlesphere
1 Skullclamp
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
Other stuff 11
1 Land Tax
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Vandalblast
2 Scroll Rack
4 Unwinding Clock
4 Return to Dust
4 Wrath of God
6 Austere Command
Card by card breakdown
Lands:
[SPOILER]
Mishra's Workshop: Tapping for 3 mana is pretty good, only being able to use it to cast artifacts is a downside but isn't so bad in this deck
Plateau: ABUR dual land, nuff said.
Sacred Foundry: dual number 2.
Clifftop Retreat: not as good as Foundry or Plateau, but still pretty good.
Command Tower: Another land that fixes mana.
Arid Mesa: Finds duals or basics.
Ancient Den: helps turn on metalcraft
Great Furnace: helps turn on metalcraft
Darksteel Citadel: helps turn on metalcraft and survives Armageddon.
Ancient Tomb: this almost feels like having another Sol Ring sometimes.
Maze of Ith: stops an attacking creature and a mainstay of commander.
Inkmoth Nexus: alternate win condition, plus I love manlands
Kher Keep: helps to feed Smokestack and the tokens can be pumped to help win.
[/SPOILER]
MLD/stax/tax
[SPOILER]
Blind Obedience: a mini Kismet, it doesn't affect lands but it only costs 2 and has extort.
Sphere of Resistance: adds a one mana tax to everything cast, slows everyone down a turn.
Torpor Orb: shutdown ETB effects, you say? Ok!
Winter Orb: Slows things way down and messes with Mr Ramper McRamperton bad.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: taxes noncreature stuff by 1 and gets a buff from Jor
Tangle Wire: frustrating to play around, not so bad when your deck is set up to play around it.
Static Orb: limits untapping to 2 permanents, can be shut of though.
Aura of Silence: taxes artifacts and enchantments by 2? Oh noes! Wait, it only affects opponents, hurray!
Magus of the Moon: hoses expensive and/or greedy mana bases. Also gets buffed by Jor.
Lodestone Golem: taxes non artifact spells while getting around some of our tax effects. Potential beater too.
Loxodon Gatekeeper: a Kismet with legs.
Kismet: makes opponent's stuff come in tapped, this slows them down.
Armageddon: blows up all lands, good thing we have mana rocks.
Smokestack: the namesake of the archetype, the ability is game breaking against some decks, this deck is not one of them.
Ajani Vengeant: low cost and advances the strategy with his +1 also advances the strategy when he ultimates.
Catastrophe Blows up creatures or lands, goes great in this deck.
Boom//Bust: most of the time this gets played for 6 to blow up all lands. Boom mode is good too to spot remove a troublesome land.
Devastation: Wrath of God and Armageddon all rolled into one convenient package.
Decree of Annihilation: always cycled, always. Blows up lands and draws a card for 7.
[/SPOILER]
Other Stuffs
[SPOILER]
Path to Exile: exiles creatures.
Sensei's Divining Top: mostly I just test this in every deck, this color scheme lacks ways to draw so being able to filter is nice.
Tormod's Crypt: my favorite grave hate card.
Swords to Plowshares: same as Path to Exile.
Vandalblast: such good artifact hate.
Return to Dust: really good targeted artifact/enchantment removal.
Unwinding Clock: testing mode, supposed to break symmetry of my locks only time will tell.
Wrath of God: classic sweeper, thinking about Martial Coup in this spot.
Austere Command: Very versatile sweeper, sometimes it is better to wield the scalpel than the sledgehammer.
[/SPOILER]
Equipment
[SPOILER]
Skullclamp: when I think of equipment I think of this one first. Main reason for this is turning creatures that are doomed into precious, precious card draw.
Sword of Feast and Famine: (insert usual arguments for including Swords of X and Y)
Sword of Light and Shadow: see Sword of Feast and Famine. I need to buy Fire and Ice and War and Peace I would like to include them as well.
[/SPOILER]
Token Makers
[SPOILER]
Goblin Assault: feeds Smoke Stack like a champ.
Luminarch Ascension: powers out low cost tokens after it gets going.
Krenko, Mob Boss: makes tokens, that's about it.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: makes tokens, pumps Jor and has a small chance of making my stuff indestructible, seems good.
Hero of Bladehold: makes tokens and pumps attackers, all around good card.
Myr Turbine: another token maker, helps with metal craft and can be used to tutor for a myr (hasn't happened yet)
Assemble the Legion: has the potential to win the game if left unchecked.
Precursor Golem: 3 3/3s for 5 and enables metalcraft on it's own.
Myr Battlesphere: works well with all of the mana myrs and makes tokens, alt win condition.
[/SPOILER]
Recursion
[SPOILER]
Goblin Welder: brings back artifacts for the low cost of sacrificing an artifact.
Myr Retriever: beats, recurs helps metalcraft.
Junk Diver: same as Myr Retriever, with added flying.
Crucible of Worlds: recurring land from the grave is good when they die often.
Trading Post: does so much, one of my favorite cards.
Sun Titan: beats and recurs for the low price of 6.
[/SPOILER]
Mana Rocks[SPOILER]
Mana Crypt: costs nothing, adds 2 to your mana pool. The drawback can bite you on the but but is worth the risk.
Mox Opal: ramps and fixes, if you have Metalcraft which you should.
Sol Ring: classic ramp.
Gold Myr: ramps, beats, helps enable Metalcraft and keeps us steady with MLD and Orbs out.
Iron Myr: see Gold Myr.
Plague Myr: see Gold Myr, also alt win condition.
Fire Diamond: ramps and fixes.
Marble Diamond: see Fire Diamond.
Mind Stone: ramps and gives precious card draw.
Boros Signet: mostly fixing, but a but if ramp too.
Boros Keyrune: fixing and a beater.
Palladium Myr: ramping beater.
Alloy Myr: fixing beater.
Coalition Relic: my personal favorite rock.
Chromatic Lantern: could be any 3 drop, probably coming out for Darksteel Ingot playtesting will tell.
[/SPOILER]
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
I'm not a big fan of Jokulhaups in here, since it will more often than not leave you with nothing in an artifact-heavy Jor list. I mean, if you land it with a planeswalker or token making enchantment, it's golden, but you seem too artifact-heavy to make it asymmetrical nearly often enough.
While I'm thinking about planeswalkers, consider Ajani Vengeant.
No Skullclamp?
Outside of Smokestack and I guess Trading Post, I don't see a lot of sac outlets to power Martyr's Bond. I guess it works as a deterrent, or helps you block productively, but I can't see your deck taking as much advantage of it as you could. It's amazing with Cataclysm, though. Have you considered Razia's Purification? I'd tentatively advise to add the one or cut the other.
Love the Station package, but how good do you anticipate Pyrite Spellbomb being?
Magus of the Moon costs 3, your list shows him at 4.
Would there be any value in running fewer nonbasics and using Ruination?
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Good points.
I have no idea how skullclamp got over looked, same for Ajani V seeing as I have both if them on my paper list I was working off of. As far as Pyrite Spellbomb I have it in the deck mostly for draw and a grinding win con if need be. I agree Martyr's Bind could probably go. Razia's Purification I was not familiar with I will add it. Jokulhaups will probably come out too. Ruination is a good possibility to go in, I had forgot about it.
Right now I am doing theorycrafting on the deck before I order what I need.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Hero of Bladehold is ridiculous, especially with Jor Kadeen out. Hero attacking is 15 damage the first time.
The new Assemble the Legion, once it gets going, could feed Smokestack forever.
Not so great with Goblin Assault out, but Goblin Welder does a lot of work in a deck like this.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I knew I was forgetting something in my recursion section, welder is a must play, it is actually most of the reason Myr Retriever and Junk Diver are in the deck. Hero of Blade Hold got overlooked somehow and Assemble the Legion will have yup find a spot too. Thanks for pointing those out, hopefully I get some time after class today to get on a computer to edit my list, I'm posting from my phone and it kind of sucks trying to post/ edit a deck list.
Keep the suggestions coming guys/ gals!
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Edit: I know you said you want to test with 40 lands, but that will definitely be way too many. Your curve is pretty low, so unless you plan on hitting Armageddon third turn I don't think you will need all that. Land Tax is also huge here, and I'd recommend pulling a land out for that. Why not try 38 lands with land tax in one of their spots?
Random card that would be good in your deck most of the time: Unwinding Clock. Especially with Static Orb out. Get to use your Salvaging STation on everyone else's turn. Make more Luminarch Ascension and Mobilization tokens. Lots of fun.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
All of the baubles seem decent, but by no means excellent. Granted they come down super cheap and enable metalcraft. I'd just rather have something to swing in with, but I guess that's just my playstyle shining through
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Hero of Bladehold is the MVP of the deck but Myr Battlesphere and Precurson Golem are solid too.
Battlesphere goes nice with your mana dorks and is amazing on its own. Precursor gives you metalcraft and a lot of power, but one of my favorite tricks is to Path to Exile him after I Armegeddon:kank:.
Razia's Purification is pretty bad for 6 mana. It's good, sure, but by the time you have 6 mana you should have better things to do.
If you run that much mana attached to your artifacts and all those orbs you want to keep Unwinding Clock. It will crack the symmetry open better than about any other option you have.
Your basic land count is really low. You should be looking for a manabase that supports Blood Moon and Koth.
1 Battlefield Forge - Don't need it.
1 Buried Ruin - too expensive to use. Putting you back a land does hurt.
1 Rishadan Port - Huh?
1 Wasteland - Maybe.
1 Dust Bowl - You don't need any more land destruction than you have.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Best of luck with Jor Kadeen Stax :). If your friends are mature and understanding enough, they won't mad at you for playing Stax.
By the way, Salvaging Station is only worth it with 10 dedicated deck slots which most decks can't afford. In Grixis, I have it as a recursion engine as an alternate win condition. Remember the rule of your Salvaging Station and 60 card graveyard gets Tormod's Crypt'd, shake it off and reconfigure your game plan.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Although I think I realized what I was doing wrong with my list. I think I focused too much on getting JK and a beater in play before getting a decent drain / stax setup online. Maybe I will to tune my list a little more and play a bit differently.
What should I replace the station and associated cards for?
I feel like I need to run some spot removal for lands because of Cradle and Coffers.
Any other critiques? I am going to update this tomorrow after school.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Batterskull. You can sac the germ to a stax effect, equip it, bring it back to your hand, maintain your life total, and smash face.
Boom // Bust should be in any red LD deck, because sometimes you just want to Boom.
As Galspanic said, Myr Battlesphere and Precursor Golem. He pointed out the cool play of casting Path to Exile on your own Precursor Golem with floated mana after a land wipe. Oblation on the golem is also kind of neat.
EDIT: As you're considering packages, goblins can contribute a lot to stax in red. Squee, Goblin Nabob is classic sac fodder. Fun to discard with a Rummaging Goblin. Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker can copy any of your dudes for sac fodder, and copying a Myr Battlesphere, Precursor Golem, or even Hero can be pretty sweet. Goblin Matron will search up your Kiki who will copy the Matron to start a chain of goblin tutoring, of course getting your Krenko as well. The only thing you're dumping a fair bit of mana into is Kiki-Jiki, everything else is cheap sac fodder that swings for 4 or 5 with Jor Kadeen, all recurrable with Sun Titan. I used this in a different style Jor Kadeen control build, but it could serve your needs.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
1 Chaos Warp
1 Oblation
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Real men just pay through counters. The deck is close to be regular enough that there are no single game breaking plays... just a lot of little grinders.
Static Orb > Chaos Warp
You have enough lock down effects. If you have too many you can't seal the deal. Remember, it's not about murdering the game in the face. It's about setting it up so that you come out ahead on the attrition war.
Martyr's Bond > Oblation
Sweet card but at 6 it's too little too late. I run it in Ghave because of Ghave's ability, but it's really hard to get 6 mana worth of value of it without some easily accessible sac outlet. Also, without Academy Rector it's less sexy.
Expedition Map > Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker
You don't have any lands you really need to tutor for and without Salvaging Station it's not really good. If you do need a land tutor got for one that ramps like Solemn Simulacrum (who should probably be in here anyway since he ramps, is a dude, and fuels your sac outlets.
Moggcatcher > Goblin Recruiter or Goblin Matron. Moggcatcher is too expensive and too slow. You want your cards to do their job as soon as they resolve. Waiting around is bad and paying 7 for a goblin is bad.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Honesty map was overlooked. It will come out. I was wondering if I had too many lock pieces. Boseiju will come out, but I worry about not having enough land. I will try it though.
Thanks again for all the advise, I appreciate it so very much.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
As far as what everyone has suggested about unwinding clock, I must ask why. Yes, it gives him lots of mana during other people's phases but what's that good for? I see:
Luminarch Ascension
Chump blockers
Popping off an instant if he tapped out.
Side note, you have "6 Cataclysm". Cataclysm costs 4, did you mean catastrophe or did you just goof?
Supposed to be catastrophe. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm bit going to do any editing today because I post from a phone and it is way more effort than I have right now. Also unwinding clock is there to untap my stuff when I have orb effects out and break symmetry of the effects.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
No humility? Card is a house. So hard for people to deal with.
Not sure I like Myr Battlesphere here. Ajani Vengeant is much stronger. It taps, blows up small dudes and wraths the lands.
Edit: I missed that you had Vengeant. Will look for another replacement.
How about Vicious Shadows?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Also more mass land destruction.
You stick a assemble the masses and an altar then wipe out the lands. You now have an alt mana source while the table has nothing. And your token production is strong so with vicious shadows, you're dealing serious damage when your tokens bite the dust.
Replenishmight be another option if your meta is light on yard hate and exile removal.
I run it in my deck even though grave yards don't exist. Just getting back one key enchantment is worth the 4cmc. If you have 3+ enchantments in your yard, well, you are now in awesome city.
Also, since you're running a lock down package, mobilization might be a nice option. Makes tokens and gives all your other solider tokens vigilance.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Any suggestions on cuts for altars? What other MLD am I missing, I know Impending Disaster is missing but that is all that comes to mind. Replenish is going on the wish list. I had Mobilization in the initial list I posted but cut it due to the constant need to feed mana into it.
Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback. I can't wait to get the cards for this and play it.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Actual cataclysm is another MLD option, Jokulhaups (though that sets you back a lot), and Thoughts of Ruin are the only ones I can think of.
Looking at the OP's list, his win condition is his general beats. I can't see humility really working out here unless he got a crazy token producer online.
What has your experience with shadows been? I've seen it be pretty devastating before, but getting up to 7 mana I almost feel like I'd rather just be destroying all lands.
Vicious Shadows is a solid win condition. Sits at the 7 mana slot just like Myr Battlesphere but is more powerful. Especially in a deck where your opponents have hard time getting cards out of their hand since they can't cast them.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando