This is list is inspired by IceBear's but tweaked to suit my playgroup. I play in a very diverse and competitive metagame. Decks from Norin to even Sakashima the Imposter, to the perfect Sharuum deck are in there. It's a no holds-barred slugfest. LD is sort of frowned upon but I got sick and tired of people just comboing out EVERY.EFFING.TIME. Now that I've waved the banner of at least some kind of LD, people are now adapting to it (more mana rocks than spells). Change is good and the diversity just got a lot more interesting.
1. Start out setting up your board with mana rocks and maybe act like a cop for the first few turns by taking out early generals like Sisay or Azusa with Boneshredder or Fleshbag Marauder
2. A lot of threats can come down early such as Graveborn Muse. Anything that costs 5 mana is a sizable threat.
3. Only blow up lands when you have at least 2 mana rocks, loam/crucible, or a threat in play. As much as possible, try to be the cop until the board favors you (no other dudes in play, tapped out opponents etc.).
4. Swing for the win. You WILL surely recover faster than your opponents.
IN CASE THE LD CARDS DON'T SHOW UP
1. Play threats and swing.
2. Be patient and play normally.
I want to add a lot more cards in here. Probably more spot removal like Krosan Grip or even Seedborn Muse.
I've tested this a loooooot of times and it works. You just really need to be patient and play defense early and pray to god that you don't overextend into your GY.
Although the idea of big cc spells and a mana-hungry general partnered with MLD seems like a bad idea but they miraculously work together if you play things right and don't get greedy.
Oh and don't worry if someone exiles your yard that had Karmic Guide or Vish Kal, the Blood Arbiter. The deck was made to stand on its own. If anything, it's still a Junk Goodstuff.dec.
I tweaked the deck around based on testing with my playgroup.
Removed: Primeval Titan
- When people find out that I play Karador as my general, I'm always the Bribery target and they almost always go for him. Also, having him around available to all sorts of abuse by other players totally ruins the whole LD concept of the deck.
Regrowth
- Removed it as soon as I put it in. Didn't feel like I needed MORE recursion.
Mindslicer
- Likewise, he felt subpar or maybe the timing didn't come. Eh.
Ghave, Guru of Spores
- Hardest cut I had to make. Once I reconciled with the fact that he's only super good with Black Mike out, the cut didn't feel as painful.
Tooth and Nail
- Banned in the playgroup. Good riddance.
Pull from Eternity
- The hypothetical scenario card. Despite being Bojuka Bog'd a minimum of 4 times in a game. I really didn't need it.
Added:
Sorin Markov
- This is an aggro deck. This guy takes you to the promised land faster.
Griselbrand
- Testing phase. So far hasn't disappointed. He's the real deal.
Hunting Grounds
- Drop this after blowing up all their lands and watch your big boys come down after your opponents desperately try to ramp back into the game.
No Necrotic Sliver or Angel of Despair? Also for a competetive list you're missing Wasteland!!! Recurring both Strip mine and Wasteland with Life from the Loam is pretty good I hear. I'd even throw in Tectonic Edge, too. I mean if you're going to be "that guy" you might as well be THAT GUY right? Haha
No Necrotic Sliver or Angel of Despair? Also for a competetive list you're missing Wasteland!!! Recurring both Strip mine and Wasteland with Life from the Loam is pretty good I hear. I'd even throw in Tectonic Edge, too. I mean if you're going to be "that guy" you might as well be THAT GUY right? Haha
Necrotic Sliver and AOD were tough cuts since it's a sort of auto-include in Karador. Wasteland would be nice but... a guy's gotta eat.
Tectonic Edge, well I already have a lot of colorless-producing lands and I prefer to take mass LD instead of spot LD.
What would you remove for Necrotic and AOD? AOD felt lacking. a 7cc vindicate with legs felt subpar. But if you can pinpoint a something i could drop for AOD, i will happily test it.
We made our own banlist to stop herp derp combos. Everyone likes to combo out - that's the reason why I made this deck in the first place to keep everyone else in check. People were having too much fun with their lands lol.
I only have around 28 dudes, agadeem will feel very subpar. Plus, I always get bog'd since my plays heavily involve the graveyard.
Phyrexian Delver seems alot weaker in the list than Necrotic Sliver would be. I can definitely understand the reasoning in not including Angel of Despair... and I was just giving you crap about Wasteland, I used to own about 10000 of them when Tempest was in print but something happened to them in the meantime. Such is life! I might also pick which Boots I like more, and drop the other for a Stoneforge Mystic. I'd suggest Defense of the Heart but if your group banned Tooth and Nail it won't really like Defense of the Heart either. If you happen to want to get it banned yourself I'd slot it in place of Hunting Grounds and use it to fetch Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion / Woodfall Primus and just nuke everyone and everything at once. Herp derp combo yes? You might even get Mikaeus banned too! To make room for the two creatures you can lose Acidic Slime and maybe Skullclamp since you have precious few clampable creatures and none with self - recursion.
Phyrexian Delver seems alot weaker in the list than Necrotic Sliver would be. I can definitely understand the reasoning in not including Angel of Despair... and I was just giving you crap about Wasteland, I used to own about 10000 of them when Tempest was in print but something happened to them in the meantime. Such is life! I might also pick which Boots I like more, and drop the other for a Stoneforge Mystic. I'd suggest Defense of the Heart but if your group banned Tooth and Nail it won't really like Defense of the Heart either. If you happen to want to get it banned yourself I'd slot it in place of Hunting Grounds and use it to fetch Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion / Woodfall Primus and just nuke everyone and everything at once. Herp derp combo yes? You might even get Mikaeus banned too! To make room for the two creatures you can lose Acidic Slime and maybe Skullclamp since you have precious few clampable creatures and none with self - recursion.
I was thinking of putting in Trike since I removed it before because I wanted to NOT fetch Mike and Trike upon a resolved entwined Tooth and Nail.
One of the reasons we added more cards to the banned list was to let ourselves flex our creative muscles instead of just running to these cards everytime. One player in our group plays a Sharuum deck with Bitter Ordeal as one of his wincons. He raged at first but in the end, he welcomed the idea of winning in style by sticking with Blood Artist/Disciple of the Vault or by exploring other options.
Anyway, I'll make some changes and see what happens. I'm a little iffy about Stoneforge Mystic since I don't have much equipment. Acidic Slime is there for Lark/Guide shenanigans.
Played an epic 7 man pod the other night and won. This deck is ridiculous in the late game. Bojuka Bog doesn't screw this deck as much since it doesn't rely as MUCH on the gy as other Karador decks (although having a fat graveyard helps). The deck won with a Sigarda carrying a loxodon warhammer.
Hunting Grounds is the real deal, people!
I suggest people to try out this build. It takes a lot of patience though. Don't just pop lands until you have a threat or mana rocks in play. Try it! <3
Hey, cool list. I dig the LD strategies. Play it in Uril and sometimes Jor Kadeen.
I'm guessing you avoided Catastrophe because of the mana cost, but it's pretty cool that it's a flexible spell allowing you to choose lands or creatures.
How much playtesting have you done with the deck? Is the deck typical in power level for your meta?
Hey, cool list. I dig the LD strategies. Play it in Uril and sometimes Jor Kadeen.
I'm guessing you avoided Catastrophe because of the mana cost, but it's pretty cool that it's a flexible spell allowing you to choose lands or creatures.
How much playtesting have you done with the deck? Is the deck typical in power level for your meta?
Well one reason why I don't run Catastrophe is I don't have one yet. Still trying to track one down hahaaha
I've done a lot of playtesting with this one and it works since it runs on 2 completely different but complementary strategies. You start out normally controlling the board with your utility dudes. And then you could either:
1. Drop a bomb and THEN LD
2. Or take the usual Karador strategy of dropping threats one by one and force other players to answer you.
They're complementary because when you force them to answer your bomb, that pretty much opens up the board for your LD. Just make sure that you have enough mana rocks or Loam/Crucible to keep you relevant in the game.
Karador is pretty much just an enchantment here in this deck. I don't want to focus fully on my general's ability since this deck is very susceptible to GY hate. I've been hit my Bojuka Bog many many many maaaaaahaaahahahannnyy times and still come out on top by playing conservatively. That's the reason why I don't have Karador staples such as Greater Good and Buried Alive.
Also made a couple of changes based on suggestions here:
Removed:
Mana Reflection
- I felt that I didn't need it as much as I thought I would. Dropping this just made me a bigger target than I already am.
Lightning Greaves
- As suggested by some here, I replaced this with a dude instead.
So GP Manila just concluded and the deck went through a massive overhaul. That plus the banning of Griselbrand... well the deck needed new toys to play with.
Removed:
Griselbrand
- Banned. Saw it coming. I got 2 mionths of fun out of him. He needed to be banned though. I never lost a game when this guy resolved.
Phyrexian Reclamation
- This drew a lot of unwanted hate since they know this card is ridiculous. My general already draws a lot of hate by himself.
Angel of Despair
- She keeps coming on and out of my list. I'm just not THAT sold on her yet.
Austere Command
- Removing probably the best white sweeper in EDH? Blasphemous!
Swiftfoot Boots
- As juicy as the concept of having a INFINITE/INFINITE haste Vish Kal/Carrion Feeder is, it's not worth the slot.
Phantom Nishoba
- Big, hard to get rid of, lifelinks AND Larkable!
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Shuts down a lot of generals/cards. Nice STE, bro. Drop this after a mass LD. Rock it.
Dust Bowl
- With a deck that has Crucible of Worlds AND Life from the Loam? Put it in!
You may notice that the amount of spot removal has greatly increased. It's weird since my playgroup doesn't exactly see the value of spot removal since they're your last chance (aside from blue tricks of course) of stopping infinite loops.
I'm quite happy with how the deck has turned out and has become a force to be reckoned with. Hope you guys try it!
Phyrexian Reclamation
- Realized how much I need this with the amount of recursion I need for the deck.
Ghave, Guru of Spores
- My original general (see sig). Sac outlet, beater, synergizes with Black Mike and P. Nisho.
Ghostway
- One card no one expects to see when they wrath the board. Attack, ghostway, Cataclysm. BOOM!
Austere Command
- Realized this card's value when I barely eked out a win against an Edric, Merieke and Sliver Overlord. It is undoubtedly white's best sweeper.
Sorin Markov
- The man of the house! Don't leave home without him. Actually, this is the flexible spot. When I'm not with my usual playgroup, I put in Tooth and Nail in his place.
Greater Good never disappointed me in my Karador deck, good card draw at worst. Big instant shennigans with Mike 2.0 out.
Also Rune-Scarred Demon can get pretty rediculous, most of the time I can tutor 3-4 cards each game with him.
Ever tought of Necromancy? Nobody thinks of the possibility of an instant speed reanimation. Also Sun Titan like's to reanimate any of his buddy's not only the little cmc3 ones;)
Greater Good never disappointed me in my Karador deck, good card draw at worst. Big instant shennigans with Mike 2.0 out.
Also Rune-Scarred Demon can get pretty rediculous, most of the time I can tutor 3-4 cards each game with him.
Ever tought of Necromancy? Nobody thinks of the possibility of an instant speed reanimation. Also Sun Titan like's to reanimate any of his buddy's not only the little cmc3 ones;)
I was thinking of adding the demon, oracle and necromancy tbh. As for greater good, i'm reluctant to use it because i may end up overcommitting to the graveyard. karador gets enough GY hate enough as it is. What would you take out for the 3 cards though?
I was thinking of adding the demon, oracle and necromancy tbh. As for greater good, i'm reluctant to use it because i may end up overcommitting to the graveyard. karador gets enough GY hate enough as it is. What would you take out for the 3 cards though?
I would cut Lord of Extinction, sure he can hit like crazy but a little 0/1 token can stop him.
Speaking of which Spike Weaver is just mean against any voltron and token decks. You should definitly give him a try;)
Im not that much impressed with Ghostway mainly because its a one shot and almost not reusable.
Also I would cut Carrion Feeder for Greater Good just give it a try, most of the time it gives you draw like crazy:)
Maybe use Sunblast Angel over Wrath of God its always nice to have an reusable sweeper effect. Also with Mike 2.0 stops any attacks against you.
Edit: Big Game Hunter is the real deal, his madness cost is with Survival of the Fittest very relevant. Also he comes back with any recoursion engine you have, also he kills those persky big black dudes you can only deal with duplicant otherwise. He's one of my most valuable players and offers a lot potential for abuse.
I remember the good old times, as his nickname was Emrakul killer of the eldrazi slayer;)
Gah Greater Good really wants me to overextend. But it is dope. I've got a game sesh with the group later. I might replace Ghostway with it. What I like about ghostway is that when you have eternal witness in play, your board is practically wrath-proof... unless of course your ghostway gets countered. I like Carrion Feeder coz it almost oftens falcon punches someone when paired with a loop.
Big big update! Did a lot of playtesting over the weekend and I realized that i MAY have too much LD. My hate over purely dedicated-to-combo decks have made me miss out on some good fatties that GBW bring.
Removed:
Sorin Markov
-
Ghostway
- As Nostr090 pointed out, just doesn't do much. Only good with Eternal Witness out.
Swamp
- Had to make room for another non-basic land.
Added: Disciple of Bolas
- When this baby was spoiled, I almost wanted to have its babies. Of course, it's not really a perfect relationship since it's a HUMAN so no Black Mike shenanigans. On the other hand, it is 'clampabble, larkable, requires only 1 Black mana AND it fills that arid 4cc slot.
Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Trying her out again to act as removal, beats and recursion. One reason why I don't use Rune-Scarred Demon is I am afraid of it being used a lot by my opponents. For spiderlegs, I'm not as apprehensive.
Birthing Pod
- I FINALLY CAVED IN! This card is beautiful. It helps me get dudes that I need at that moment. Do note that you don't have to use it every turn, use it when you need it only.
Pernicious Deed
- Yes I know that using this will blow up my enchantments, and mana rocks but who cares? Its interaction with Sun Titan is just golden.
Spike Weaver
- This deck takes a while to setup so this bad boy is the perfect candidate when it comes to protecting me. Fits the 4cc slot, larkable and has a sexy synergy with Ghave.
"Is it possible that I have too much LD that I'm losing focus with the deck? I need to be able to address big mana/combo decks without derailing the deck. Is it even possible?"
I have to admit that I've been away from the game for a while for a couple of reasons.
1. Fell in love
2. Got married
3. Father-to-be
Of course, while away from the game, I was still very much waist-deep in this deck with the tinkering and tuning (my wife plays too!).
Here are the changes I made:
Removed: Avenger of Zendikar
- Actually, one reason I removed this was because I made a sweet Rith deck and I needed this guy. Turns out I don't need him as much here.
Damnation
- Becoming the cop of the table never felt so good.
Diabolic Intent
- Sac outlet and tutor! Looping this + eternal witness + sun titan gives me a chub. <3
Expedition Map
- Because Prime Time did its job too well. This little guy can fetch me the lands I need for the scenario. Got a big spell you want resolved? Get Boseiju. 1/2 of the Coffers/Urborg engine? Complete it!
Oracle of Mul Daya
- This with Crucible of Worlds lets you rebuild faster.
Chromatic Lantern
- I don't care if this doesn't have indestructible. It has too much upside.
Sorin Markov
- Actually, this could be anything you want and I change this depending on which playgroup I'm in. If I'm not running with my normal playgroup, I run Tooth and Nail Couple of options:
And welcome back, with the looks of things i'm guessin i could get the chance to play with you sometime around.. Here are somethings i think you could consider..
i think you shouldn't cut Angel of Despair it's a vindicate with legs, + it works well with your KG+Lark shenanigans..
Ghost dad 2.0? I haven't tested him yet, and i havent encountered him in action.. If you get the chance, ring me up
And welcome back, with the looks of things i'm guessin i could get the chance to play with you sometime around.. Here are somethings i think you could consider..
i think you shouldn't cut Angel of Despair it's a vindicate with legs, + it works well with your KG+Lark shenanigans..
Ghost dad 2.0? I haven't tested him yet, and i havent encountered him in action.. If you get the chance, ring me up
If I'm not with my playgroup, when I resolve a T&N, it's usually game over. I only cast it when I'm getting bored and I want to finish the game already. What would you remove for Norn and Wurm?
As for the Primordial, I have been looking at it. Seems legit. Once again, figuring out what to cut is the hard part.
I really can't justify the use of AOD. Perhaps. Maybe.
Our LGS is starting a league with Armada rules with a couple of tweaks.
- Banned Tooth and Nail, Bitter Ordeal and Bribery
- CHASM IS OUT! (YAY!)
This puts the deck in a prime position to be able to grind out games for hours.
Couple of changes.
Removed:
Exotic Orchard
- Kinda pointless when people are gonna blow up lands.
Genesis
- Can't justify the use because it has the speed of a calendar.
Hunting Grounds
- Hard to use. Amazing post board reset though.
Added: Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
- Despite its steep mana cost considering the amount of colorless lands I have, I am confident with my fixing (either that or I'm really lucky with my draws). This guy is amazing!
Thespian's Stage
- Trying this card out. There were games when it was able to copy my own Cabal Coffers and it was just superb.
Aura Shards
- With the amount of dudes coming in and out of my battlefield, this is going to be a testing phase and hope it pans out.
Kokusho, the Evening Star
- I realized that I was short 1 card and he was a shoo-in. Words cannot express how ridiculous this card is.
Cards I'm considering adding:
Elixir of Immortality
- Its only purpose is to save my GY from a times mass GY removal. Plus it lets me grind out games a lot longer.
My decklist can be found below
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Sac Outlet
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Viscera Seer
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Recursion
1 Karmic Guide
1 Sun Titan
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Eternal Witness
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Reveillark
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Living Death
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Regrowth
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
Utility
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Bone Shredder
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Duplicant
1 Acidic Slime
1 Spike Weaver
1 Mindslicer
1 Withered Wretch
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Sylvan Library
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
BOOM!
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Damnation
1 Austere Command
1 Catastrophe
1 Pernicious Deed
Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Birthing Pod
Removal
1 Beast Within
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Oblation
1 Path to Exile
1 Putrefy
Ramp
1 Wood Elves
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Mana Reflection
1 Golgari Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Sol Ring
1 Chromatic Lantern
Random
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Command Tower
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Brushland
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Barren Moor
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Homeward Path
1 Strip Mine
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Dust Bowl
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Crypt of Agadeem
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
This deck's gameplan is simple:
1. Start out setting up your board with mana rocks and maybe act like a cop for the first few turns by taking out early generals like Sisay or Azusa with Boneshredder or Fleshbag Marauder
2. A lot of threats can come down early such as Graveborn Muse. Anything that costs 5 mana is a sizable threat.
3. Only blow up lands when you have at least 2 mana rocks, loam/crucible, or a threat in play. As much as possible, try to be the cop until the board favors you (no other dudes in play, tapped out opponents etc.).
4. Swing for the win. You WILL surely recover faster than your opponents.
IN CASE THE LD CARDS DON'T SHOW UP
1. Play threats and swing.
2. Be patient and play normally.
I want to add a lot more cards in here. Probably more spot removal like Krosan Grip or even Seedborn Muse.
I've tested this a loooooot of times and it works. You just really need to be patient and play defense early and pray to god that you don't overextend into your GY.
Although the idea of big cc spells and a mana-hungry general partnered with MLD seems like a bad idea but they miraculously work together if you play things right and don't get greedy.
Oh and don't worry if someone exiles your yard that had Karmic Guide or Vish Kal, the Blood Arbiter. The deck was made to stand on its own. If anything, it's still a Junk Goodstuff.dec.
Changelog
+ Withered Wretch, Phyrexian Reclamation, Crypt of Agadeem
4/5/13
+ Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, Thespian's Stage, Aura Shards, Kokusho, the Evening Star
3/19/13
+ Regrowth, Mindslicer, Scavenging Ooze, Damnation, Diabolic Intent, Expedition Map, Oracle of Mul Daya, Chromatic Lantern, Sorin Markov, Barren Moor
7/16/12
+ Disciple of Bolas, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Birthing Pod, Pernicious Deed, Avenger of Zendikar, Spike Weaver, Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7/1/12
+ Angel of Despair, Phyrexian Reclamation, Ghave, Ghostway, Austere Command, Sorin Markov
6/21/12
+ Maelstrom Pulse, Mortify, Beast Within, Catastrophe, Diabolic Intent Phantom Nishoba, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Dust Bowl
6/5/12
+ Necrotic Slivern, Angel of Despair, Crypt of Agadeem, Forest
5/27/12
+ Sorin Markov, Griselbrand, Hunting Grounds, Phyrexian Delver, Primeval Titan
5/17/12
+ Mindslicer, Regrowth
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Removed:
Primeval Titan
- When people find out that I play Karador as my general, I'm always the Bribery target and they almost always go for him. Also, having him around available to all sorts of abuse by other players totally ruins the whole LD concept of the deck.
Spiritmonger
- As much as I love this guy, he felt pretty subpar since Lord of Extinction is also in the deck.
Added:
Mindslicer
- The ultimate rattlesnake. Imagine dropping this guy after blowing up all their lands. FEAR!
Regrowth
- Double up on your LD spree.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Anyway,
Made a couple of changes
Removed:
Regrowth
- Removed it as soon as I put it in. Didn't feel like I needed MORE recursion.
Mindslicer
- Likewise, he felt subpar or maybe the timing didn't come. Eh.
Ghave, Guru of Spores
- Hardest cut I had to make. Once I reconciled with the fact that he's only super good with Black Mike out, the cut didn't feel as painful.
Tooth and Nail
- Banned in the playgroup. Good riddance.
Pull from Eternity
- The hypothetical scenario card. Despite being Bojuka Bog'd a minimum of 4 times in a game. I really didn't need it.
Added:
Sorin Markov
- This is an aggro deck. This guy takes you to the promised land faster.
Griselbrand
- Testing phase. So far hasn't disappointed. He's the real deal.
Hunting Grounds
- Drop this after blowing up all their lands and watch your big boys come down after your opponents desperately try to ramp back into the game.
Phyrexian Delver
- Sometimes, the pain is just worth it.
Primeval Titan
- I was an idiot for removing him in the first place
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Though from what scuttlebutt sounds, Tooth is probably going to get the axe next time around.
Any reason to exclude Crypt of Agadeem?
Mid-Tier:
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG
Necrotic Sliver and AOD were tough cuts since it's a sort of auto-include in Karador. Wasteland would be nice but... a guy's gotta eat.
Tectonic Edge, well I already have a lot of colorless-producing lands and I prefer to take mass LD instead of spot LD.
What would you remove for Necrotic and AOD? AOD felt lacking. a 7cc vindicate with legs felt subpar. But if you can pinpoint a something i could drop for AOD, i will happily test it.
We made our own banlist to stop herp derp combos. Everyone likes to combo out - that's the reason why I made this deck in the first place to keep everyone else in check. People were having too much fun with their lands lol.
I only have around 28 dudes, agadeem will feel very subpar. Plus, I always get bog'd since my plays heavily involve the graveyard.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
I was thinking of putting in Trike since I removed it before because I wanted to NOT fetch Mike and Trike upon a resolved entwined Tooth and Nail.
One of the reasons we added more cards to the banned list was to let ourselves flex our creative muscles instead of just running to these cards everytime. One player in our group plays a Sharuum deck with Bitter Ordeal as one of his wincons. He raged at first but in the end, he welcomed the idea of winning in style by sticking with Blood Artist/Disciple of the Vault or by exploring other options.
Anyway, I'll make some changes and see what happens. I'm a little iffy about Stoneforge Mystic since I don't have much equipment. Acidic Slime is there for Lark/Guide shenanigans.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Hunting Grounds is the real deal, people!
I suggest people to try out this build. It takes a lot of patience though. Don't just pop lands until you have a threat or mana rocks in play. Try it! <3
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
I'm guessing you avoided Catastrophe because of the mana cost, but it's pretty cool that it's a flexible spell allowing you to choose lands or creatures.
How much playtesting have you done with the deck? Is the deck typical in power level for your meta?
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Well one reason why I don't run Catastrophe is I don't have one yet. Still trying to track one down hahaaha
I've done a lot of playtesting with this one and it works since it runs on 2 completely different but complementary strategies. You start out normally controlling the board with your utility dudes. And then you could either:
1. Drop a bomb and THEN LD
2. Or take the usual Karador strategy of dropping threats one by one and force other players to answer you.
They're complementary because when you force them to answer your bomb, that pretty much opens up the board for your LD. Just make sure that you have enough mana rocks or Loam/Crucible to keep you relevant in the game.
Karador is pretty much just an enchantment here in this deck. I don't want to focus fully on my general's ability since this deck is very susceptible to GY hate. I've been hit my Bojuka Bog many many many maaaaaahaaahahahannnyy times and still come out on top by playing conservatively. That's the reason why I don't have Karador staples such as Greater Good and Buried Alive.
Also made a couple of changes based on suggestions here:
Removed:
Mana Reflection
- I felt that I didn't need it as much as I thought I would. Dropping this just made me a bigger target than I already am.
Lightning Greaves
- As suggested by some here, I replaced this with a dude instead.
Cabal Coffers
- Totally useless without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- I didn't want to fuel other players' Coffers.
Added:
Necrotic Sliver
- Bit the bullet and put this guy back in.
Angel of Despair
- Vindicate on legs. What was I thinking?!
Crypt of Agadeem
- Works wonderfully in the late game. Plus it adds B when it doesn't do its thing.
Forest
- Adds G. What's not to like. LOL.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
So GP Manila just concluded and the deck went through a massive overhaul. That plus the banning of Griselbrand... well the deck needed new toys to play with.
Removed:
Griselbrand
- Banned. Saw it coming. I got 2 mionths of fun out of him. He needed to be banned though. I never lost a game when this guy resolved.
Phyrexian Reclamation
- This drew a lot of unwanted hate since they know this card is ridiculous. My general already draws a lot of hate by himself.
Angel of Despair
- She keeps coming on and out of my list. I'm just not THAT sold on her yet.
Austere Command
- Removing probably the best white sweeper in EDH? Blasphemous!
Swiftfoot Boots
- As juicy as the concept of having a INFINITE/INFINITE haste Vish Kal/Carrion Feeder is, it's not worth the slot.
Vindicate
- Beast Within is so much better.
Sorin Markov
- Tough cut to make. We'll see.
Forest
-
Added:
Maelstrom Pulse
- Eradicates tokens and works as a weaker Vindicate. Much better.
Mortify
- I realized the deck needed more spot removal for those damn Withered Wretches and Scavenging Oozes running around.
Beast Within
- Instant speed Vindicate with a "drawback?" I'll take it!
Catastrophe
- Austere Command's daddy. On-theme and very, very dangerous.
Diabolic Intent
- Tutor and sac outlet. Fantastic.
Phantom Nishoba
- Big, hard to get rid of, lifelinks AND Larkable!
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Shuts down a lot of generals/cards. Nice STE, bro. Drop this after a mass LD. Rock it.
Dust Bowl
- With a deck that has Crucible of Worlds AND Life from the Loam? Put it in!
You may notice that the amount of spot removal has greatly increased. It's weird since my playgroup doesn't exactly see the value of spot removal since they're your last chance (aside from blue tricks of course) of stopping infinite loops.
I'm quite happy with how the deck has turned out and has become a force to be reckoned with. Hope you guys try it!
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Played a massive game again. Pretty awesome. Made a few more changes.
Removed:
Mortify
- hard cut but I needed more tricks for the deck.
Sigarda, Host of Herons
- She did feel a little too one-sided. She's better off as a general to be honest.
Rout
- Like Sigarda, feels a LITTLE underwhelming
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- She's good but she's not for the deck.
Loxodon Warhammer
- Trying it out without the hammer. With Phantom Nishoba, Vish Kal and Vault of the Archangel, I may have enough lifelinkers
Bloodgift Demon
- Trial phase. We'll see
ADDED:
Angel of Despair
- There she goes again!
Phyrexian Reclamation
- Realized how much I need this with the amount of recursion I need for the deck.
Ghave, Guru of Spores
- My original general (see sig). Sac outlet, beater, synergizes with Black Mike and P. Nisho.
Ghostway
- One card no one expects to see when they wrath the board. Attack, ghostway, Cataclysm. BOOM!
Austere Command
- Realized this card's value when I barely eked out a win against an Edric, Merieke and Sliver Overlord. It is undoubtedly white's best sweeper.
Sorin Markov
- The man of the house! Don't leave home without him. Actually, this is the flexible spot. When I'm not with my usual playgroup, I put in Tooth and Nail in his place.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Also Rune-Scarred Demon can get pretty rediculous, most of the time I can tutor 3-4 cards each game with him.
Ever tought of Necromancy? Nobody thinks of the possibility of an instant speed reanimation. Also Sun Titan like's to reanimate any of his buddy's not only the little cmc3 ones;)
EDIT:
Oracle of Mul Daya with Strip Mine and Crucible of Worlds is just mean. Also she lets you ramp pretty easy and you also can draw your real goodstuff and not only these lame lands;) Just brocken with Sensei's Dividing Top or Sylvan Library
I was thinking of adding the demon, oracle and necromancy tbh. As for greater good, i'm reluctant to use it because i may end up overcommitting to the graveyard. karador gets enough GY hate enough as it is. What would you take out for the 3 cards though?
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
I would cut Lord of Extinction, sure he can hit like crazy but a little 0/1 token can stop him.
Speaking of which Spike Weaver is just mean against any voltron and token decks. You should definitly give him a try;)
Im not that much impressed with Ghostway mainly because its a one shot and almost not reusable.
Also I would cut Carrion Feeder for Greater Good just give it a try, most of the time it gives you draw like crazy:)
Maybe use Sunblast Angel over Wrath of God its always nice to have an reusable sweeper effect. Also with Mike 2.0 stops any attacks against you.
Edit:
Big Game Hunter is the real deal, his madness cost is with Survival of the Fittest very relevant. Also he comes back with any recoursion engine you have, also he kills those persky big black dudes you can only deal with duplicant otherwise. He's one of my most valuable players and offers a lot potential for abuse.
I remember the good old times, as his nickname was Emrakul killer of the eldrazi slayer;)
Damn it where's my Sunblast Angel and Big Game Hunter?
I'll keep you guys posted on the changes.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
Removed:
Sorin Markov
-
Ghostway
- As Nostr090 pointed out, just doesn't do much. Only good with Eternal Witness out.
Lord of Extinction
- Big and doesn't know how to trample. WHY?!
Phantom Nishoba
-Woooh one of the toughest cuts I had to make. I love this guy
Diabolic Intent
- I never really got to use it. Sad
Wrath of God
- As a removal spell, it felt very limited. Still a tough cut to make.
Orzhov Signet
- Got the axe since I had no more space for Avenger of Zendikar
Swamp
- Had to make room for another non-basic land.
Added:
Disciple of Bolas
- When this baby was spoiled, I almost wanted to have its babies. Of course, it's not really a perfect relationship since it's a HUMAN so no Black Mike shenanigans. On the other hand, it is 'clampabble, larkable, requires only 1 Black mana AND it fills that arid 4cc slot.
Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Trying her out again to act as removal, beats and recursion. One reason why I don't use Rune-Scarred Demon is I am afraid of it being used a lot by my opponents. For spiderlegs, I'm not as apprehensive.
Birthing Pod
- I FINALLY CAVED IN! This card is beautiful. It helps me get dudes that I need at that moment. Do note that you don't have to use it every turn, use it when you need it only.
Pernicious Deed
- Yes I know that using this will blow up my enchantments, and mana rocks but who cares? Its interaction with Sun Titan is just golden.
Avenger of Zendikar
- The plant man is back!
Spike Weaver
- This deck takes a while to setup so this bad boy is the perfect candidate when it comes to protecting me. Fits the 4cc slot, larkable and has a sexy synergy with Ghave.
Cabal Coffers/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- The Batman and Robin of cards. I decided to bring them back for testing again.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
"Is it possible that I have too much LD that I'm losing focus with the deck? I need to be able to address big mana/combo decks without derailing the deck. Is it even possible?"
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
I have to admit that I've been away from the game for a while for a couple of reasons.
1. Fell in love
2. Got married
3. Father-to-be
Of course, while away from the game, I was still very much waist-deep in this deck with the tinkering and tuning (my wife plays too!).
Here are the changes I made:
Removed:
Avenger of Zendikar
- Actually, one reason I removed this was because I made a sweet Rith deck and I needed this guy. Turns out I don't need him as much here.
Phyrexian Reclamation
- This was a tough cut considering how powerful this is.
Archon of Justice- This card became more and more underwhelming as the amount of sac outlets became less and less.
Qasali Pridemage
- Underwhelming
Angel of Despair
- Tough cut.
Global Ruin
- I found too much LD in the deck was overkill.
Primeval Titan
- Banned. Lol.
Darksteel Ingot
- Chromatic Lantern is just leagues better.
Reliquary Tower
- Barren Moor was needed.
Reflecting Pool
- Kinda hard to run when you blow up land.
Added:
Regrowth
- Because Eternal Witness by itself just doesn't cut.
Mindslicer
- Blow up their lands and then drop this guy? Yummy. Plus, its mere presence just scares people.
Scavenging Ooze
- Pure house.
Damnation
- Becoming the cop of the table never felt so good.
Diabolic Intent
- Sac outlet and tutor! Looping this + eternal witness + sun titan gives me a chub. <3
Expedition Map
- Because Prime Time did its job too well. This little guy can fetch me the lands I need for the scenario. Got a big spell you want resolved? Get Boseiju. 1/2 of the Coffers/Urborg engine? Complete it!
Oracle of Mul Daya
- This with Crucible of Worlds lets you rebuild faster.
Chromatic Lantern
- I don't care if this doesn't have indestructible. It has too much upside.
Sorin Markov
- Actually, this could be anything you want and I change this depending on which playgroup I'm in. If I'm not running with my normal playgroup, I run Tooth and Nail Couple of options:
Phantom Nishoba
Avenger of Zendikar
Fierce Empath
Phyrexian Reclamation
Death Cloud
Barren Moor
- Because Tranquil Thicket and Secluded Steppe felt lonely.
Sadly, nothing from GTC and RTR aside from Chromatic Lantern jumped out. Obzedat maybe?
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
- Elesh Norn Grand Cenobite - this works good as a Tooth and Nail target, pair it up with Massacre Wurm for more fun..
- Sylvan Primordial this is a cheap card and it could serve as a replacement for Primetime, just play it and you could probably fetch ur shocks and the Bosk
i think you shouldn't cut Angel of Despair it's a vindicate with legs, + it works well with your KG+Lark shenanigans..
Ghost dad 2.0? I haven't tested him yet, and i havent encountered him in action.. If you get the chance, ring me up
If I'm not with my playgroup, when I resolve a T&N, it's usually game over. I only cast it when I'm getting bored and I want to finish the game already. What would you remove for Norn and Wurm?
As for the Primordial, I have been looking at it. Seems legit. Once again, figuring out what to cut is the hard part.
I really can't justify the use of AOD. Perhaps. Maybe.
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG
- Banned Tooth and Nail, Bitter Ordeal and Bribery
- CHASM IS OUT! (YAY!)
This puts the deck in a prime position to be able to grind out games for hours.
Couple of changes.
Removed:
Exotic Orchard
- Kinda pointless when people are gonna blow up lands.
Genesis
- Can't justify the use because it has the speed of a calendar.
Hunting Grounds
- Hard to use. Amazing post board reset though.
Added:
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
- Despite its steep mana cost considering the amount of colorless lands I have, I am confident with my fixing (either that or I'm really lucky with my draws). This guy is amazing!
Thespian's Stage
- Trying this card out. There were games when it was able to copy my own Cabal Coffers and it was just superb.
Aura Shards
- With the amount of dudes coming in and out of my battlefield, this is going to be a testing phase and hope it pans out.
Kokusho, the Evening Star
- I realized that I was short 1 card and he was a shoo-in. Words cannot express how ridiculous this card is.
Cards I'm considering adding:
Elixir of Immortality
- Its only purpose is to save my GY from a times mass GY removal. Plus it lets me grind out games a lot longer.
Adarkar Valkyrie
- It's very synergistic with cards like Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond and even with my own sac outlets + ETB creatures but it's slow.
Lightning Greaves
- In case I get an infinitely pumped Carrion Feeder or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter swing right away and not wait for another turn
Lord of Extinction
- He's big, he's The Mimeoplasm's wet dream and Jarad's best dancing partner.
What would you guys cut? What would you suggest given now that there are rules to follow in my LGS?
BWGGhave the psycho shroomBWG
BWGKarador the crippler!BWG