Red/White. The ugly step-child of color combinations, often regarded as perhaps the most difficult pairing to work with since their main strength-small, efficient creatures-are a difficult strategy to pull off in multiplayer.
1vs1 yes they do their work in multiplayer im afraid they don't.
Hmmm, let's talk this through, and see what happens.
(Note: the following is from my own experiences; any omissions or controversy found is strictly based on my knowledge of the game.)
So basically, from what I've seen and played, R/W has the hardest time finding a late game plan of the two-color combinations. Most of the other combinations have synergies that allow them to make the most of the late game, such as G/B's incredibly resilient forms of recursion, or U/W's overwhelming card advantage. R/W, however, is mainly focused as a color pair on winning the early game. It has possibly the most aggressive creatures (note that this doesn't mean largest), with most having some form of haste or having a benefit from attacking.
What this means for EDH, again just from what I've seen, is that for the most part R/W does well in the earlier turns but once the ball gets rolling has a hard time catching up. This problem is exaggerated in games with a blue deck, as many R/W plans revolve around a "Big Play" where they spend a large amount of mana or cards in order to achieve an equal result, and a single counterspell can ruin an entire offensive.
When I sat down to build this deck, I thought of all this and realized that if I would have difficulty in the late game, what if I could make the early game count? The goal of this deck is to make the early turns count for you; while other players are passing or ramping, you're building a presence on the board. Nobody wants to burn a wrath on a few weenies; not when the green player is known for his Avenger of Zendikar shenanigans, or the black player revealed a Living Death earlier. Even if you do lose a few, you've lowered life totals early in the game, which makes it easier for you to clean up in the latter portion.
This philosophy is reflected in the card choices for this deck. Now, I make no claims that it's perfect; no deck is. But what I will claim is that this deck does exactly what it means to do--attack early and often. Now, in regards to the cards you mentioned:
Boros Swiftblade is an excellent early attacker, as any sort of power boost makes his a credible threat. He works well early and late game, and can end them on his own in several situations.
Falkenrath Exterminator is a card that if drawn early in the game, or played after a sweeper, can utterly dominate several generals. Two or three counters can make it so that many generals can't even hit the board. If the board is clogged, he's not ideal, but as long as there's one person open he can be a gamechanger.
Stun Sniper and Thundersong Trumpeter are examples of creatures that I didn't mind seeing late or early game. In the early game, they hold a sword or jitte as well as any other creature. I the late game, they offer the deck a chance to play politics; "I can make that creature unable to attack/block you if you..."
Truefire Paladin is a creature that's, again, good both in the early game and the late. In the early game, he's a body that can swing for 4 or 6. In the late game, when you have nothing else to spend it on? 10 to 12.
Wojek Halberdiers is the weakest of the cards you mentioned--it's pretty much in here for a fantastic power/cost ratio. It will most likely be cut in favor of something from DGM, but I'm keeping it around for now.
One final note regarding the cards chosen: I wanted to try and make it so that no card could be considered "a bad draw" at any point in the game. I doubt that I succeeded entirely on that (that's an impossible task), but I think that I did pretty well overall.
I look forward to your thoughts, as well as any others from those who read this thread.
Well, I'll start off with this: You were absolutely right. I've been playtesting this deck for a while now, and when it works, it works perfectly; the problem is that it rarely works. So, following your train of thought, I've made the following changes:
make a bunch of dudes, give them all exalted with the angel, swing with a ton of exalted triggers... swing again with even more triggers for an aurelia so fat she makes deathless angel look like a super model?
what about kiki-jikki and splinter twin? make a copy, swing with aurelia and copy, untap and make another copy, swing with even more!
if you go the tokens route theres also marton stromgald for lots of fatties.
Hey man ! good to see you playtested and swapped some cards
im glad you took the advice and are willing to make your deck work!
btw have to ask you 2 questions:
1) do you want to play Voltron or Token or goodstuff or ?
2) do you want to run a budget deck ?
Glad to have your advice and assistance! I'm leaning towards more of a Voltron or goodstuff build; Red/White tokens have a better commander in Agrus Kos. I can afford pretty much anything that's not outrageously expensive, so non-budget is a go.
I'm not sure about Glory; there's not many sacrifice outlets in this deck and if you draw it in an empty board it just sort of hangs around. Maybe replace it with an Urabrask the Hidden?
Martom Stromgald seems like it would only get to attack or block once, and super easy to kill. Maybe replace it with Sublime Archangel?
Thraben Doomsayer makes human tokens, but I think that Mobilization might be a better fit in that slot. It's more mana-intensive, yes, but it also gives a bonus to all of your soldier tokens and can make multiple ones per turn.
I've never been a fan of Enlightened Tutor; you go down a card to ensure your next draw. I'll not deny that it's an excellent card; I just feel that in Red/White, where draw is light and speed is high, something like Wheel of Fortune might be better.
You've given me some great ideas, and I can't thank you enough! Now it's down to playtesting and see what comes out of it.
Well, the token makers weren't doing enough to stay in the deck; they're just too small to make that much of a difference without any sort of pump effect or dedication to that theme. Plus, in several situations, having tokens actually became a liability (Massacre Wurm, Decree of Pain, Insurrection).
When the token-makers came out, so did Mentor and Guildmage, which were pretty much in there as support for the tokens.
Paladin just never seemed to do much.
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But what the heck, let's try it anyway.
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
Creatures
1x Anger
1x Avalanche Riders
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Boros Reckoner
1x Captain of the Watch
1x Eternal Dragon
1x Frontline Medic
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Hellrider
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Inferno Titan
1x Karmic Guide
1x Knight of the White Orchid
1x Kor Cartographer
1x Serra Ascendant
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Stonehewer Giant
1x Sun Titan
1x Thunder Dragon
1x Urabrask the Hidden
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Wrecking Ogre
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Cathar's Crusade
1x Land Tax
1x True Conviction
Artifacts
1x Boros Keyrune
1x Boros Signet
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Loxodon Warhammer
1x Mind's Eye
1x Scroll Rack
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Sunforger
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
Instants
1x Aurelia's Fury
1x Boros Charm
1x Ghostway
1x Path to Exile
1x Return to Dust
1x Shattering Blow
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Tithe
1x Wild Ricochet
1x Final Judgement
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Steelshaper's Gift
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Wrath of God
Land
1x Ancient Amphitheater
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Boros Garrison
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1x Forgotten Cave
1x Plateau
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
12x Mountain
12x Plains
When playing this deck, the plan is as follows:
1) Play dudes.
2) Equip dudes.
3) Swing.
4) Have no dudes? Play your general.
5) Swing.
Choose the weak link and prey on them. Save the strongest for your commanding...commander.
That sounded better in my head.
Anyway, go forth, brave Boros! Bring justice through violence!
Hmmm, let's talk this through, and see what happens.
(Note: the following is from my own experiences; any omissions or controversy found is strictly based on my knowledge of the game.)
So basically, from what I've seen and played, R/W has the hardest time finding a late game plan of the two-color combinations. Most of the other combinations have synergies that allow them to make the most of the late game, such as G/B's incredibly resilient forms of recursion, or U/W's overwhelming card advantage. R/W, however, is mainly focused as a color pair on winning the early game. It has possibly the most aggressive creatures (note that this doesn't mean largest), with most having some form of haste or having a benefit from attacking.
What this means for EDH, again just from what I've seen, is that for the most part R/W does well in the earlier turns but once the ball gets rolling has a hard time catching up. This problem is exaggerated in games with a blue deck, as many R/W plans revolve around a "Big Play" where they spend a large amount of mana or cards in order to achieve an equal result, and a single counterspell can ruin an entire offensive.
When I sat down to build this deck, I thought of all this and realized that if I would have difficulty in the late game, what if I could make the early game count? The goal of this deck is to make the early turns count for you; while other players are passing or ramping, you're building a presence on the board. Nobody wants to burn a wrath on a few weenies; not when the green player is known for his Avenger of Zendikar shenanigans, or the black player revealed a Living Death earlier. Even if you do lose a few, you've lowered life totals early in the game, which makes it easier for you to clean up in the latter portion.
This philosophy is reflected in the card choices for this deck. Now, I make no claims that it's perfect; no deck is. But what I will claim is that this deck does exactly what it means to do--attack early and often. Now, in regards to the cards you mentioned:
Boros Swiftblade is an excellent early attacker, as any sort of power boost makes his a credible threat. He works well early and late game, and can end them on his own in several situations.
Falkenrath Exterminator is a card that if drawn early in the game, or played after a sweeper, can utterly dominate several generals. Two or three counters can make it so that many generals can't even hit the board. If the board is clogged, he's not ideal, but as long as there's one person open he can be a gamechanger.
Stun Sniper and Thundersong Trumpeter are examples of creatures that I didn't mind seeing late or early game. In the early game, they hold a sword or jitte as well as any other creature. I the late game, they offer the deck a chance to play politics; "I can make that creature unable to attack/block you if you..."
Truefire Paladin is a creature that's, again, good both in the early game and the late. In the early game, he's a body that can swing for 4 or 6. In the late game, when you have nothing else to spend it on? 10 to 12.
Wojek Halberdiers is the weakest of the cards you mentioned--it's pretty much in here for a fantastic power/cost ratio. It will most likely be cut in favor of something from DGM, but I'm keeping it around for now.
Shattering Blow was originally Shattering Pulse; however, I found that many key artifacts that I wanted to remove were either indestructible (Blightsteel Colossus, Darksteel Forge), or the player had Academy Ruins and would just wait me out on it. I like exiling.
One final note regarding the cards chosen: I wanted to try and make it so that no card could be considered "a bad draw" at any point in the game. I doubt that I succeeded entirely on that (that's an impossible task), but I think that I did pretty well overall.
I look forward to your thoughts, as well as any others from those who read this thread.
Well, I'll start off with this: You were absolutely right. I've been playtesting this deck for a while now, and when it works, it works perfectly; the problem is that it rarely works. So, following your train of thought, I've made the following changes:
I thank you for your thoughts and time, and look forward to yours and others comments on these changes.
make a bunch of dudes, give them all exalted with the angel, swing with a ton of exalted triggers... swing again with even more triggers for an aurelia so fat she makes deathless angel look like a super model?
what about kiki-jikki and splinter twin? make a copy, swing with aurelia and copy, untap and make another copy, swing with even more!
if you go the tokens route theres also marton stromgald for lots of fatties.
inferno titan is another option for lots of kerpow!
aggravated assault + sword of feast and famine for infinite combat steps?
Glad to have your advice and assistance! I'm leaning towards more of a Voltron or goodstuff build; Red/White tokens have a better commander in Agrus Kos. I can afford pretty much anything that's not outrageously expensive, so non-budget is a go.
All good ideas, I'll try them out!
This is pretty awesome, and I have a few ideas inspired by it.
What do you think about Goblin Trenches? It works with Krenko and the land loss can be negated by something like Planar Birth, Faith's Reward, or Second Sunrise.
I'm not sure about Glory; there's not many sacrifice outlets in this deck and if you draw it in an empty board it just sort of hangs around. Maybe replace it with an Urabrask the Hidden?
Martom Stromgald seems like it would only get to attack or block once, and super easy to kill. Maybe replace it with Sublime Archangel?
Thraben Doomsayer makes human tokens, but I think that Mobilization might be a better fit in that slot. It's more mana-intensive, yes, but it also gives a bonus to all of your soldier tokens and can make multiple ones per turn.
I've never been a fan of Enlightened Tutor; you go down a card to ensure your next draw. I'll not deny that it's an excellent card; I just feel that in Red/White, where draw is light and speed is high, something like Wheel of Fortune might be better.
You've given me some great ideas, and I can't thank you enough! Now it's down to playtesting and see what comes out of it.
Well, the token makers weren't doing enough to stay in the deck; they're just too small to make that much of a difference without any sort of pump effect or dedication to that theme. Plus, in several situations, having tokens actually became a liability (Massacre Wurm, Decree of Pain, Insurrection).
When the token-makers came out, so did Mentor and Guildmage, which were pretty much in there as support for the tokens.
Paladin just never seemed to do much.