This is my Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck. I have decided to make this deck creatures-only, so there is nothing in it except creatures and lands. It's not a budget build, so maybe it belongs in the other subforum. I think the deck-building constraint I placed on myself prevents it from being an optimized list.
Sylvan Safekeeper - I think this guy is better than Mother of Runes in this format (Mom is still good though). He's online immediately and protects all your creatures. I give him an A+. Spore Frog - I'm in the minority but I think he's better than Spike Weaver. It's only 1 mana to fog instead of 5 and you can recur him if need be. People are also more reluctant to use spot removal on him because he's a 1 drop. Viscera Seer - Infinite combo enabler with Lark and good on it's own. Thalia, Hero of Thraben - Not sure if this will draw too much hate but it's 1 sided in this deck. Kataki, War's Wage - Doesn't affect you. Gaddock Teeg - Seems like a natural inclusion. He's an all star in decks that can play him. Phyrexian Revoker - Doesn't seem exciting on paper but he stops a ton of stuff and you can sac/replay him to switch targets. Scavenging Ooze - Really good graveyard hate on a solid body. Glowrider - A worse Thalia. Mirror Entity - He's a good finisher but enables infinite combos. Gutless Ghoul - A sac outlet on a body that doesn't enable infinite combos. Mentor of the Meek - He looks really good in here as a source of card advantage. Ouphe Vandals - I've not tried this card but it stops a lot of graveyard hate in addition to some sweepers. Fiend Hunter - This + Sun Titan + free sac outlet goes infinite. Ranger of Eos - I'd run him with 4 targets. Captain Sisay - Not sure you have enough legends but she gets back your commander if he gets tucked. Braids, Cabal Minion - Your deck is naturally able to sustain her if you want some added disruption. Filth - This is a great option if you include Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Archon of Justice - Exiling is really powerful though you'll need sac outlets. Molder Slug - Pretty good for keeping artifacts in check. Yosei, the Morning Star - He can be a lock piece with a sac outlet.
I haven't got Gaddock Teeg, Scavenging Ooze, Mirror Entity, Mentor of the Meek, Braids, Ranger of Eos, or Mentor of the Meek (or at least, no spare ones). I also don't have a spare Phyrexian Tower or Urborg; I have to check for a High Market, but I think I have one.
Here's a list of cards that I would look to upgrade:
Artisan of Kozilek - Eldrazi are much less scary without haste so he's not a very good threat and he's really expensive for reanimation. Novablast Wurm - Just never been a fan of this guy. He kills Karador which means he basically shuts down your engine.
Spirit of the Hearth - I think True Believer is enough. I'm rarely willing to pay extra mana for a bigger body. Dark Hatchling - Too expensive. Ondu Giant - Again just 1 mana too much. Glimmerpoint Stag - Not a bad card and has synergy with the deck but he's too small for 4 mana. Flickerwisp flies so I like him a lot more, same with Galepowder Mage. Vampire Nighthawk - He's a decent rattlesnake but you'll usually have a good board presence. Beating someone senseless with your army because they attacked you is also a good rattlesnake. Fleetfoot Panther - He's fine but I think he could go to free up space. Big Game Hunter - He doesn't kill a lot of commanders which are often the things that need to die. Deadly Recluse - Another rattlesnake that I don't think you need.
I'd keep Brutalizer Exarch just because he's a tutor which is very valuable. Doomed Necromancer is also an option to cut but I think he's decent.
I'm definitely not saying you should cut all of these but at first glance these were the cards that jumped out at me.
I'm not sure how effective Thalia would be. In a slow meta she's probably not worth it since you'll draw hate. In a more developed meta where people have low curves (running stuff like Ponder and friends) she really slows people down. I'd say she's a meta call.
Sylvan Safekeeper - In multiplayer people usually don't want to turn their spot removal into a bad Stone Rain so you'll very rarely sack lands and usually only if the person doesn't know how the card works. Also Spore Frog is awesome because people don't want to waste an attack step to kill your 1 drop.
Captain Sisay - I would definitely understand not including her, I was on the fence as to whether to suggest her but giving you more options can't hurt.
Dude, I did the same thing! I'll take a look at mine when I get home and compare.
It's a blast to play, and I also like playing the "give my deck to my friends and see if they notice the theme" game after they play against it the first time. No one's guessed correctly without any hints.
Other good cards I have had success with that aren't in your list:
Dawntreader Elk Viridian Emissary Hermit Druid - This enables dredging and cheap Karador casting early, even in a deck with basic lands Melira, Sylvok Outcast - Enables infinite combos with Kitchen Finks and Woodfall Primus Disciple of Griselbrand - Suprisingly good for survival and a decent sac outlet. Helps against tuck effects, etc. Undertaker - Helps re-buy your dudes when Karador isn't available (or easy dumping of reanimation targets) and enables dredge creatures
Llanowar Empath - I'm trying this recently as another way to get cards, but this could probably just be Striped Bears (4 cmc is actually decent with...) Dimir House Guard - Great sac outlet and tutor Fleshwrither - Another tutor Necrotic Ooze - This is a big one. Does a LOT more work than you might think at first glance. With certain creatures in your graveyard, he sets up a lot of combos that you would normally have to have on the battlefield simultaneously Hell's Caretaker False Prophet - One of the few wrath effects you have available to you. It's a safety valve that nearly nothing can escape. You, of course, get to sac your entire field before saccing the Prophet, and sac the sac outlet in response to the trigger.
Thanks for all the input everybody! I'll mull over these suggestions and post my update. Unfortunately, it's looking like I won't have time to make any changes before the weekend.
My suggestions are It That Betrays and Reya Dawnbringer. They both act as recursion and ITB has a fun effect. Maybe run more creatures that help control the board and or have ETB or LTB effects. E.G. Malakir Gatekeeper. Possibly try to fit Urza-Tron into your land base.
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I've been considering Reya but her mana cost is a bit high. It That Betrays lives in my Savra deck. If I got another one, it would live in my Thraximundar deck. If I get a third, I guess it can go in here. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it's necessary for this deck. Similarly, my two Karmic Guides already have homes.
I do not like the Urzatron in EDH at all, especially in three colors.
Cycling creatures aren't a bad idea. I like Tusker, Scion, and Gladiator. I'll see if I can make room for those.
I really do need Winding Canyons for this deck. I don't think I own one. I know I own a Yavimaya Hollow, but I think it's in a deck.
more sac engines, because you run reanimator, and they benefit you diamond valley may be something to look for(if you have 100$ and are going competitive), if not, budget on mirei, the moaning well.
more cards that have enter the battlefield triggers. these WIN you games with sac engines and reanimator. doesn't have to be too expensive, but hey, if only there were more cards like solemn simulacrum, which have enter the battlefield and dies effects
great deck though.
oh and sweeps for reanimator
more sac engines, because you run reanimator, and they benefit you diamond valley may be something to look for(if you have 100$ and are going competitive), if not, budget on mirei, the moaning well.
more cards that have enter the battlefield triggers. these WIN you games with sac engines and reanimator. doesn't have to be too expensive, but hey, if only there were more cards like solemn simulacrum, which have enter the battlefield and dies effects
great deck though.
oh and sweeps for reanimator
If he was going competitive it wouldn't be a creature only Karador deck. I ran Karador as creature only briefly and found I really missed some of the power the non creature cards brought.
Here are some thoughts about your deck.
Weathered Wayfarer wont activate much, there are so many ramp creatures in green and you should be running them all. You will very rarely have the least lands unless Azusa is in your group or something silly like that. Farhaven Elf, Bloom Tender, and Somberwald Sage are all great options to add some more ramp that isn't as conditional.
I would add Karmic Guide and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to the recursion suite for sure. Micky 2.0 is one of the best engines ever! Get lots of sac outlets with him around and you have arrived to value town.
Lots of good options around Feel free to look at my list and exchange ideas, I still run half of the deck as creatures but I do run some higher power cards that I just couldn't pass up as well.
I'm looking for any constructive criticism.
List:
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
One CC:
1 Mother of Runes
1 Weathered Wayfarer
Two CC:
1 Deadly Recluse
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Riftsweeper
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 True Believer
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Withered Wretch
Three CC:
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Bone Shredder
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Doomed Necromancer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fertilid
1 Fierce Empath
1 Fleetfoot Panther
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Flickerwisp
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Ouphe Vandals
1 Spike Feeder
1 Stonecloaker
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Galepowder Mage
1 Glimmerpoint Stag
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Nekrataal
1 Ondu Giant
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spike Weaver
Five CC:
1 Acidic Slime
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Reveillark
1 Shriekmaw
1 Silklash Spider
1 World Queller
Six CC:
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Dark Hatchling
1 Primordial Sage
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Sun Titan
1 Sunblast Angel
1 Teneb, the Harvester
Seven CC:
1 Angel of Despair
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Novablast Wurm
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
Nine CC:
1 Artisan of Kozilek
Lands:
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Godless Shrine
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Maze of Ith
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Temple Garden
1 Twilight Mire
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
8 Forest
6 Plains
5 Swamps
Cards I would like to add but don't have available right now: fetch lands, Primeval Titan, Grave Titan, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
I considered Deathless Angel, but thought the white mana requirements might be too much.
Thanks for any suggestions or advice.
Cheers,
rant
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Sylvan Safekeeper - I think this guy is better than Mother of Runes in this format (Mom is still good though). He's online immediately and protects all your creatures. I give him an A+.
Spore Frog - I'm in the minority but I think he's better than Spike Weaver. It's only 1 mana to fog instead of 5 and you can recur him if need be. People are also more reluctant to use spot removal on him because he's a 1 drop.
Viscera Seer - Infinite combo enabler with Lark and good on it's own.
Thalia, Hero of Thraben - Not sure if this will draw too much hate but it's 1 sided in this deck.
Kataki, War's Wage - Doesn't affect you.
Gaddock Teeg - Seems like a natural inclusion. He's an all star in decks that can play him.
Phyrexian Revoker - Doesn't seem exciting on paper but he stops a ton of stuff and you can sac/replay him to switch targets.
Scavenging Ooze - Really good graveyard hate on a solid body.
Glowrider - A worse Thalia.
Mirror Entity - He's a good finisher but enables infinite combos.
Gutless Ghoul - A sac outlet on a body that doesn't enable infinite combos.
Mentor of the Meek - He looks really good in here as a source of card advantage.
Ouphe Vandals - I've not tried this card but it stops a lot of graveyard hate in addition to some sweepers.
Fiend Hunter - This + Sun Titan + free sac outlet goes infinite.
Ranger of Eos - I'd run him with 4 targets.
Captain Sisay - Not sure you have enough legends but she gets back your commander if he gets tucked.
Braids, Cabal Minion - Your deck is naturally able to sustain her if you want some added disruption.
Filth - This is a great option if you include Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Archon of Justice - Exiling is really powerful though you'll need sac outlets.
Molder Slug - Pretty good for keeping artifacts in check.
Yosei, the Morning Star - He can be a lock piece with a sac outlet.
Your manabase needs High Market and Phyrexian Tower and I'd also run Urborg and Gaea's Cradle if you have them.
I haven't got Gaddock Teeg, Scavenging Ooze, Mirror Entity, Mentor of the Meek, Braids, Ranger of Eos, or Mentor of the Meek (or at least, no spare ones). I also don't have a spare Phyrexian Tower or Urborg; I have to check for a High Market, but I think I have one.
I'm most interested in adding Kataki, Molder Slug, Viscera Seer, and Archon of Justice. What do you suggest cutting? Dark Hatchling, Brutalizer Exarch, Doomed Necormancer, and maybe Ondu Giant look expendable.
How good are Thalia and Glowrider in EDH? It hasn't seemed to me like the 1-mana would matter all that much.
Spore Frog and Safekeeper look interesting. I'm not sure about dealing with the loss of lands, though.
Captain Sisay looks intersting. Not sure I should run her just to grab back Karador. Not a lot of other legends in here.
Should I add a few creature based sweepers? I was thinking of trying Magus of the Disk and Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Bane of the Living in another option.
Thanks again!
Cheers,
rant
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Artisan of Kozilek - Eldrazi are much less scary without haste so he's not a very good threat and he's really expensive for reanimation.
Novablast Wurm - Just never been a fan of this guy. He kills Karador which means he basically shuts down your engine.
Spirit of the Hearth - I think True Believer is enough. I'm rarely willing to pay extra mana for a bigger body.
Dark Hatchling - Too expensive.
Ondu Giant - Again just 1 mana too much.
Glimmerpoint Stag - Not a bad card and has synergy with the deck but he's too small for 4 mana. Flickerwisp flies so I like him a lot more, same with Galepowder Mage.
Vampire Nighthawk - He's a decent rattlesnake but you'll usually have a good board presence. Beating someone senseless with your army because they attacked you is also a good rattlesnake.
Fleetfoot Panther - He's fine but I think he could go to free up space.
Big Game Hunter - He doesn't kill a lot of commanders which are often the things that need to die.
Deadly Recluse - Another rattlesnake that I don't think you need.
I'd keep Brutalizer Exarch just because he's a tutor which is very valuable. Doomed Necromancer is also an option to cut but I think he's decent.
I'm definitely not saying you should cut all of these but at first glance these were the cards that jumped out at me.
I'm not sure how effective Thalia would be. In a slow meta she's probably not worth it since you'll draw hate. In a more developed meta where people have low curves (running stuff like Ponder and friends) she really slows people down. I'd say she's a meta call.
Sylvan Safekeeper - In multiplayer people usually don't want to turn their spot removal into a bad Stone Rain so you'll very rarely sack lands and usually only if the person doesn't know how the card works. Also Spore Frog is awesome because people don't want to waste an attack step to kill your 1 drop.
Captain Sisay - I would definitely understand not including her, I was on the fence as to whether to suggest her but giving you more options can't hurt.
I like Magus of the Disk the best out of the sweeper options. Secret tech: run Yavimaya Hollow and regen him every turn.
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It's a blast to play, and I also like playing the "give my deck to my friends and see if they notice the theme" game after they play against it the first time. No one's guessed correctly without any hints.
ALRIGHTY, here it goes!
Things I think you should fit into your lands:
Krosan Verge - land ramp
Temple of the False God - land ramp
Svogthos, the Restless Tomb - can get huge
Winding Canyons - this gives you some semblance of casting instants in the game
Other good cards I have had success with that aren't in your list:
Dawntreader Elk
Viridian Emissary
Hermit Druid - This enables dredging and cheap Karador casting early, even in a deck with basic lands
Melira, Sylvok Outcast - Enables infinite combos with Kitchen Finks and Woodfall Primus
Disciple of Griselbrand - Suprisingly good for survival and a decent sac outlet. Helps against tuck effects, etc.
Undertaker - Helps re-buy your dudes when Karador isn't available (or easy dumping of reanimation targets) and enables dredge creatures
Yavimaya Granger - Gets rid of itself for more ramp
Avenging Druid - Go read the oracle text. Then read it again. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD THIS IS!
Mirror Entity - Part of infinite combos
Mentor of the Meek
Kitchen Finks
Stinkweed Imp - Rattlesnake that doubles as a dredge enabler
Llanowar Empath - I'm trying this recently as another way to get cards, but this could probably just be Striped Bears (4 cmc is actually decent with...)
Dimir House Guard - Great sac outlet and tutor
Fleshwrither - Another tutor
Necrotic Ooze - This is a big one. Does a LOT more work than you might think at first glance. With certain creatures in your graveyard, he sets up a lot of combos that you would normally have to have on the battlefield simultaneously
Hell's Caretaker
False Prophet - One of the few wrath effects you have available to you. It's a safety valve that nearly nothing can escape. You, of course, get to sac your entire field before saccing the Prophet, and sac the sac outlet in response to the trigger.
Seedguide Ash - Rampant Growth ALL the lands!
Kessig Cagebreakers - Trying it out as a finisher
Ghave, Guru of Spores - Soft lock with persist creatures
Corpse Connoisseur - Entomb is really great
Archon of Justice - Rattlesnake and way to get rid of problem creatures
Karmic Guide - Generally crazy reanimation enabler and part of infinite combos
Sadistic Hypnotist
Triskelion - Board control, infinite with Mikaeus
Reaper from the Abyss - Board control
Grave Titan - Basic token maker
Geth, Lord of the Vault - A way to get non-creature permanents and reanimate other awesome things
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - Combos with Triskelion, and is just awesome in general. Doesn't play well with Mirror Entity, beware.
Hornet Queen - Tokens and rattlesnake effect
Krosan Tusker - Early card advantage, Karador Enabler
Pelakka Wurm - Lifegain
Butcher of Malakir - Board control, works well with all the sacrifice effects
Garruk's Horde - I'm trying this one for card advantage
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - This guy does a TON of work controlling the board
I also recently added Akroma, to get another finisher-type creature in my list. I also just found out my Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is missing.
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Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Krosan Tusker
Undead Gladiator
Scion of Darkness
Elvish Aberration
Twisted Abomination
Landcycling cards get better with Ravnica shock lands and revised dual lands as well.
Echo cards are also great targets for Karador.
Bone Shredder
Deranged Hermit
Karmic Guide -get one of these now! With Karador, it's WW3 each turn to play any creature from your graveyard.
Multani's Acolyte
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter + Saffi + Sun Titan = zomg.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I do not like the Urzatron in EDH at all, especially in three colors.
Cycling creatures aren't a bad idea. I like Tusker, Scion, and Gladiator. I'll see if I can make room for those.
I really do need Winding Canyons for this deck. I don't think I own one. I know I own a Yavimaya Hollow, but I think it's in a deck.
Would Mageta the Lion be better than Novablast Wurm?
I'm definitely doing these changes:
OUT -> IN
Dark Hatchling -> Magus of the Disk
Ondu Giant -> Krosan Tusker
Artisan of Kozilek -> Viscera Seer
Deadly Recluse -> Molder Slug
Twilight Mire -> Gaea's Cradle
Cheers,
rant
Edit: I can't find a Viscera Seer anywhere! Other changes made plus this one:
- Forest
+Winding Canyons
If I end up needing the basic, I'll probably cut Haunted Fengraf.
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
diamond valley may be something to look for(if you have 100$ and are going competitive), if not, budget on mirei, the moaning well.
more cards that have enter the battlefield triggers. these WIN you games with sac engines and reanimator. doesn't have to be too expensive, but hey, if only there were more cards like solemn simulacrum, which have enter the battlefield and dies effects
great deck though.
oh and sweeps for reanimator
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
If he was going competitive it wouldn't be a creature only Karador deck. I ran Karador as creature only briefly and found I really missed some of the power the non creature cards brought.
Here are some thoughts about your deck.
Weathered Wayfarer wont activate much, there are so many ramp creatures in green and you should be running them all. You will very rarely have the least lands unless Azusa is in your group or something silly like that. Farhaven Elf, Bloom Tender, and Somberwald Sage are all great options to add some more ramp that isn't as conditional.
I would add Karmic Guide and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to the recursion suite for sure. Micky 2.0 is one of the best engines ever! Get lots of sac outlets with him around and you have arrived to value town.
The other praters are both worth running Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger are both back breaking cards.
Lots of good options around Feel free to look at my list and exchange ideas, I still run half of the deck as creatures but I do run some higher power cards that I just couldn't pass up as well.