I'm trying to trim the fat off my newest deck. It's hardly an original idea - mono black with lots of wraths, mana doublers, draw, topped off with some eldrazi and huge drain spells. I looked at quite a few mono black lists on salvation before drawing this up, so I feel credit is due to both Donald and nutterbutter. Awesome lists, guys!
Sheoldred - This is probably a pet card. I hate the idea of my shiny promo version sitting in a box unused, and under certain conditions she's an absolute house (ie: dropped the turn after I stripped everyone's hand with Myojin, reanimating fleshbag is practically a soft lock on creature decks). However, I'm not running many creatures. Is she worth it just for the sac effect if I don't have anything to reanimate?
Rune-scarred demon - expensive tutor. Gives me a nice defensive body, which helps ward off creature decks (my meta is infested with them). Also nice with Sheoldred... if she goes, he probably goes.
Possible adds: Bloodgift Demon, Graveborn Muse - more draw over sheoldred and rune-scarred, maybe?
Drana - useful for killing indestructible creatures and ends games quickly.
Geth - fun, but perhaps win-more.
Thesbian Stage - more redundancy for cabal coffers?
Barter in Blood, Black Sun, Life's Finale, Innocent Blood - just a bunch of wrath or sac effects, not sure how much defense I'll need.
Nihil Spellbomb - I'm a little uncomfortable only having Suffer the Past, Sadistic Sacrament, and Bojuka Bog against graveyard combo decks, which are pretty popular here.
Landbase - I feel like the utility lands might be overboard. I mean, strip mine and wasteland are critical to preemtively protecting coffers, and reliquary tower is sick with all this draw. The 2-mana lands are nice early game before I find a doubler. Buried ruin is pretty useful for resurrecting mana doublers or even expedition map. Bojuka bog feels like the most cuttable - it rarely comes down when I need it to, and any land coming in tapped that isn't name Vesuva bothers me on principle (Yep, Thawing Glaciers bothers me, but it's too damn useful to cut). I mean, one wouldn't think having a bunch of colorless lands would matter in a mono color deck, but it does require a critical mass of swamps to get optimal mileage out of coffers and mana doublers. Thoughts?
Wishboard:
All is Dust - this needs to be in. I just need to find one.
Maze of Ith - mystifying maze will be cut for this.
You could probably work in Diabolic Revelation, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion. This is just opinion so take it with a grain of salt. Mike&Trike is a good backup win-con. Revelation allows you to create your best possible chance to win easily.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Also is there any reason you're not packing a reanimator package? I mean one of the best things MBC can do is kill an opponent's fatty and make it their own...Reanimate, Beacon of Unrest, and so forth. You can even turn your opponents' graveyard tricks into YOUR graveyard tricks.
Suggested cuts: Sadistic Sacrament (maybe move it to the 'board? It's a good card in singleton, but really shines ONLY against combo. I see you have a lot of grave combo in your meta, but still, use with caution) Increasing Ambition (meh tutor) Suffer the Past (even in a graveyard combo meta, there are better options). Ill-Gotten Gains (this might help opponents' graveyard combos?) Kozilek (I never liked Kozilek. Eldrazi shouldn't die to Doom Blade) Rune-Scarred Demon (you don't need brute muscle and you have plenty of tutors already) Sudden Death (just Dismember)
Drana: A lot depends on your meta, but I playtested her for a while and found that with her 6 mana investment, you're either going to be too far behind to want to cast her, in which case she'll just draw hate, or you'll be so far ahead that it becomes a win-more card.
Geth: Similar story, except usually less of a threat and still draws the same hate.
Landbase:
Waste Land/Strip Mine: Just curious as to how it can "premptively protect" Cabal Coffers...? By destroying an opponent's land before they can destroy your coffers? I'm not trying to be rude I just find it an odd way to look at it. It's still not a bad land to have in your deck but if you're that worried about saving the coffers (like I am), run Grim Discovery.
Lethal Vapors: I tested it before and I find it to be kind of hit or miss. It can be quite terrifying when you establish a significant board presence, but in multiplayer, the whole "that player skips his/her next turn" is not as impressive as it is in 1v1 where it effectively says "you take an extra turn" as it inevitably leads to a politics game where you'll be 2 or 3v1'd whenever someone agrees to be the sacrificial lamb that blows it up.
Extraplanar Lens: Great mana excel, but draws too much hate in my experience and you lose a land in the process.
Mind Twist, Mind Sludge: Hand disruption isn't a bad thing, but they never impressed me in multiplayer unless it targets everyone, and again, it puts you on the losing side of the politics game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm trying to trim the fat off my newest deck. It's hardly an original idea - mono black with lots of wraths, mana doublers, draw, topped off with some eldrazi and huge drain spells. I looked at quite a few mono black lists on salvation before drawing this up, so I feel credit is due to both Donald and nutterbutter. Awesome lists, guys!
Here's the list:
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Creatures - 10
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Pestilence Demon
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Artifacts - 14
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Mana Crypt
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Memory Jar
1 Caged Sun
1 Mind’s Eye
1 Nevinyrral’s Disk
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Infernal Darkness
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Spreading Plague
Instants - 6
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Go for the Throat
1 Murder
1 Sudden Death
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Suffer the Past
Sorceries - 20
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Damnation
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Grim Discovery
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Mutilate
1 Syphon Mind
1 Mind Sludge
1 Promise of Power
1 Decree of Pain
1 Mind Twist
1 Exsanguinate
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn Liberated
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Lands - 40
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Deserted Temple
1 Petrified Field
1 Buried Ruin
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Wasteland
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
29 Swamp
These are my own thoughts so far:
Questionable inclusions:
Sheoldred - This is probably a pet card. I hate the idea of my shiny promo version sitting in a box unused, and under certain conditions she's an absolute house (ie: dropped the turn after I stripped everyone's hand with Myojin, reanimating fleshbag is practically a soft lock on creature decks). However, I'm not running many creatures. Is she worth it just for the sac effect if I don't have anything to reanimate?
Rune-scarred demon - expensive tutor. Gives me a nice defensive body, which helps ward off creature decks (my meta is infested with them). Also nice with Sheoldred... if she goes, he probably goes.
Possible adds: Bloodgift Demon, Graveborn Muse - more draw over sheoldred and rune-scarred, maybe?
Drana - useful for killing indestructible creatures and ends games quickly.
Geth - fun, but perhaps win-more.
Thesbian Stage - more redundancy for cabal coffers?
Barter in Blood, Black Sun, Life's Finale, Innocent Blood - just a bunch of wrath or sac effects, not sure how much defense I'll need.
Nihil Spellbomb - I'm a little uncomfortable only having Suffer the Past, Sadistic Sacrament, and Bojuka Bog against graveyard combo decks, which are pretty popular here.
Landbase - I feel like the utility lands might be overboard. I mean, strip mine and wasteland are critical to preemtively protecting coffers, and reliquary tower is sick with all this draw. The 2-mana lands are nice early game before I find a doubler. Buried ruin is pretty useful for resurrecting mana doublers or even expedition map. Bojuka bog feels like the most cuttable - it rarely comes down when I need it to, and any land coming in tapped that isn't name Vesuva bothers me on principle (Yep, Thawing Glaciers bothers me, but it's too damn useful to cut). I mean, one wouldn't think having a bunch of colorless lands would matter in a mono color deck, but it does require a critical mass of swamps to get optimal mileage out of coffers and mana doublers. Thoughts?
Wishboard:
All is Dust - this needs to be in. I just need to find one.
Maze of Ith - mystifying maze will be cut for this.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Control:
Diabolic Edict
Cruel Edict
Innocent Blood (you'll almost always make better use out of this than your opponent)
All is Dust (I see it's on your wishlist--definitely get it!)
Dismember
Draw:
Graveborn Muse (Phyrexian Arena on legs)
Tutors (not budget, optional):
Grim Tutor
Diabolic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Discard:
Mind Shatter ("balanced" twist)
GY Combo hate:
Leyline of the Void
Planar Void
Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus
Also is there any reason you're not packing a reanimator package? I mean one of the best things MBC can do is kill an opponent's fatty and make it their own...Reanimate, Beacon of Unrest, and so forth. You can even turn your opponents' graveyard tricks into YOUR graveyard tricks.
Suggested cuts:
Sadistic Sacrament (maybe move it to the 'board? It's a good card in singleton, but really shines ONLY against combo. I see you have a lot of grave combo in your meta, but still, use with caution)
Increasing Ambition (meh tutor)
Suffer the Past (even in a graveyard combo meta, there are better options).
Ill-Gotten Gains (this might help opponents' graveyard combos?)
Kozilek (I never liked Kozilek. Eldrazi shouldn't die to Doom Blade)
Rune-Scarred Demon (you don't need brute muscle and you have plenty of tutors already)
Sudden Death (just Dismember)
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
Most of what you said and TheTrueNub said except,
Drana: A lot depends on your meta, but I playtested her for a while and found that with her 6 mana investment, you're either going to be too far behind to want to cast her, in which case she'll just draw hate, or you'll be so far ahead that it becomes a win-more card.
Geth: Similar story, except usually less of a threat and still draws the same hate.
Landbase:
Waste Land/Strip Mine: Just curious as to how it can "premptively protect" Cabal Coffers...? By destroying an opponent's land before they can destroy your coffers? I'm not trying to be rude I just find it an odd way to look at it. It's still not a bad land to have in your deck but if you're that worried about saving the coffers (like I am), run Grim Discovery.
Lethal Vapors: I tested it before and I find it to be kind of hit or miss. It can be quite terrifying when you establish a significant board presence, but in multiplayer, the whole "that player skips his/her next turn" is not as impressive as it is in 1v1 where it effectively says "you take an extra turn" as it inevitably leads to a politics game where you'll be 2 or 3v1'd whenever someone agrees to be the sacrificial lamb that blows it up.
Extraplanar Lens: Great mana excel, but draws too much hate in my experience and you lose a land in the process.
Mind Twist, Mind Sludge: Hand disruption isn't a bad thing, but they never impressed me in multiplayer unless it targets everyone, and again, it puts you on the losing side of the politics game.