Venser I originally built to be sort of my Emperor style of deck however as I played it I found him to be a blast and I started wondering why I was focusing on it being an emperor deck when it could easily work well as a standalone FFA style of deck.
I started out packing combos but as always I find them lame so I stripped them out. Now I am focusing on cloneing, stealing, and bouncing primarily. Venser is an amazing commander as people just play arround him like I can use him on every spell they play. It is quite comical and so just keeping him off the board with the mana to play him sort of freaks people out.
Well anyways, lets see what Venser's Bouncy Castle entails these days. Here is the list:
For anyone who hasnt considered Venser as a commander I just have to say that there are so many hilarious shinanigans you can pull off with him. Some of my favorite being:
Bouncing a creature theft effect for another use. People get really sick of Gilded Drake lol.
Bring Venser in at end of opponents turns just to bounce himself to your hand. This trick can reduce his casting cost for when you need him next due to the commander tax. If he would be more than 4 mana to cast from the CZ and you didn't need him but had the mana for him bounce him around. People will get confused by this at first but you are saving yourself mana. I like to keep Venser in hand as much as possible to come out and torment people so try to kill him off if necessary to get him back where he can be cast.
Hatred on graveyard theft. Venser can sort of punish these effects on his own because he bounces things back to the owner's hand so you can totally jack with those graveyard abuse decks if you want to. Having him ready to roll is more of a pain in the ass than Homeward Path as it is hard for them to deal with him permanently. You can force the grave theft decks to sort of be your ally due to that just because they cant afford to swing their stolen things at you.
I figure I should come up with a bit of a wishlist for some other optional cards if something isnt working out or if I find some holes in what I am running:
With that I suppose I should mention some of the cards I tried out that didnt work for me...
Tangle Wire I see sort of a lot of token based decks and I generally don't have the most resources in play. If I had more taxation / stax feel to the list I could see this working out better for me but it was a situation where if I didn't get it in play right away I kept being hurt more than my opponents by this type of card.
Sunken Hope I tried it and it is cute but the fact that I lack the control of what gets bounced sucks. Most of my meta runs heavy on ETB creatures or at least the people who play decently good agro decks do. Unless I can tax their creatures coming back in or something generally this gives away too much to opponents. I didn't like it much due to this.
Tidespout Tyrant Outside of going infinite to bounce all of my opponents stuff I really don't like him. He is slow and big and rarely lasts a turn. He just doesn't do anything fast enough and he is sort of horrifying if left alone so I don't like him due to that. Perhaps if I wanted to run combo I would run him again but meh.
Planchiron another one of those creatures I am going to chalk up to amazing if you are planning on using combo and sort of ****ty otherwise. He is great... at comboing and that is about it.
I would put in more artifacts that produce U, mono blue decks tend to be pretty hungry. Star Compass and Coldsteel Heart could easily replace Wayfarer's Bauble + something else.
Your curve looks really heavy on the high end, I would consider cutting some of the fat for more "smoothing cards" like Ponder, Brainstorm, and Impulse. Mystic Remora might also be a good early drop. Treachery is also super solid creature theft, it should have a place.
You are running enough good wizards that Vedalken Aethermage could help you toolbox a bit. I also think Azami is pretty solid card drawing if you are going to be running so many wizards and Riptide Laboratory. She is probably better than Sphinx of Uthuun, as you have very few ways to generate lots of mana and a mono-U deck doesn't really want to be tapping out that late in the game for a big dumb beater.
Speaking of the high end, running Sphinx, Kederekt Leviathan, Sundering Titan, Jin Gitaxis, and Ulamog feels a bit like overkill. I know you are used to playing decks with green, but my experience with mono U is that your mana development is slow and you rarely want to tap out. You can go the very fast mana artifact route, but that package really changes how your deck plays and can be fairly expensive.
I would put in more artifacts that produce U, mono blue decks tend to be pretty hungry. Star Compass and Coldsteel Heart could easily replace Wayfarer's Bauble + something else.
Your curve looks really heavy on the high end, I would consider cutting some of the fat for more "smoothing cards" like Ponder, Brainstorm, and Impulse. Mystic Remora might also be a good early drop. Treachery is also super solid creature theft, it should have a place.
You are running enough good wizards that Vedalken Aethermage could help you toolbox a bit. I also think Azami is pretty solid card drawing if you are going to be running so many wizards and Riptide Laboratory. She is probably better than Sphinx of Uthuun, as you have very few ways to generate lots of mana and a mono-U deck doesn't really want to be tapping out that late in the game for a big dumb beater.
Speaking of the high end, running Sphinx, Kederekt Leviathan, Sundering Titan, Jin Gitaxis, and Ulamog feels a bit like overkill. I know you are used to playing decks with green, but my experience with mono U is that your mana development is slow and you rarely want to tap out. You can go the very fast mana artifact route, but that package really changes how your deck plays and can be fairly expensive.
Thanks for the comments... I think ulamog is probably going to be cut. I was thinking about that myself... Good call on Azami over the sphinx too... I will see what I can do about the rest.
The coffin might be a little too clunky too I was just hoping to get a few more abuse effects for my ETB stuff. I want to at least give it a shot before removing it. I have owned the damn thing forever and I cant get it to stick to a list.
EDIT: as for the name it was more as just a reference to the fact that the deck and Venser are all bouncy happy so I thought about one of those blow up castles that you bounce around in. It seemed like a fun twist on what the deck does. Plus who doesn't just grin at the thought of a full grown man bouncing in a blow up castle lol.
Grand Arbiter is much more annoying than Venser! Plus you get to play all the white Armageddon effects AND Planeswalker Venser, which is sweet for blinking your Tangle Wire.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Grand Arbiter is much more annoying than Venser! Plus you get to play all the white Armageddon effects AND Planeswalker Venser, which is sweet for blinking your Tangle Wire.
Well... they serve a different kind of annoyance. The Arbiter is more about the taxation effects whereas Venser is about being a counterspell on a stick of a commander. I sort of like the idea of a flash counterspell commander in a pinch.
They could both work as the commander for this type of deck though. Still I think it would take a different approach for Grand Arbiter.
EDIT: I went ahead and cut the coffin for another mana stone... I got a few more stones in but I wouldnt mind finding just a little more room for them... Also I am wondering if I shouldnt find a larger effect stone perhaps Thran Dynamo or Gauntlet of Power or something of the sort...
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Ok a few more changes for the bouncy castle. I think I can skimp off a counter effect just due to how much bounce I have + the fact that my commander can stall things.
I also cut Acquire as I have always found it miles worse than Bribery. I wanted a little more card draw so I will try out Thirst for Knowledge for now and see how it goes. I thought about Ponder but I hate the damn thing and Brainstorm sucks because I dont have enough shuffle triggers. Impulse would be an alright choice but I feel like Thirst has a chance of generating some card advantage instead so I will give it a shot.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
If you go with a UW, it'll give you access to Cloud Cover. Have all your annoying creatures with ETB abilities, and you've got yourself a wicked defense. Would also allow you to add Dovescape (and then Guile for pure annoyance)
Yes I know that there are good options in UW... I know that Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is super great as a bounce commander due to his cheapening all your stuff and making everything hell on his opponents.
However that is not the gameplan for this deck... I just wanted a mono U annoying control deck. I like that my commander is a stall counter or a bounce...
I am aware of the alternate options I am just choosing not do run him.
I already have a bant ETB effect deck and I just dont see the reason to make a UW ETB deck. I just want a U bounce deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Cephalid Constable... If the field is clear (due to bouncing) he gets really annoying. Although he is infinitely better if you can boost him in some way.
OOOO that does look like fun. I would love strapping Nim Deathmantle onto him... Hummm maybe I will have to consider if a Sword deserves a slot as well... I will think it over...
EDIT:Temporal Adept could also be fun... I will have to think over more of this bouncing stuff... seems like fun thats for sure.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The constable doesn't really shine until you get him to the 4/4 range. Then he's kind of awkward to block and devastating NOT to block. I distinctly remember playing one game where I got a 12/12 trample Constable (base 9/9 from counters, plus an overrun). The last opponent had to chump with his general so he "only" had 6 lands returned to his hand.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Venser's ability is conducive to cutting almost all other conventional bounce in a blue list, I think. Repulse could probably go, as could Withdraw.
Phantasmal Image is a fine card, but it's outclassed in almost every way by Metamorph (especially considering you won't be able to reuse it) - I'd replace it with Body Double if you're not playing Palinchron.
I'm not a fan of Azami in a non-Azami list. She's too expensive; I'd try Overwhelming Intellect instead.
Equilibrium is a good card, but is this the right place for it? Same with Sunken Hope. Why not play Temporal Adept? Your other bounce outlets (Shards, Riptide) should prove more than adequate for reusing 187s, and Venser ensures that nothing threatening will stick for long. The points brought up regarding Sunken Hope just seem invalid here; you aren't really able to deny your opponents simply abusing it for CIP triggers at a multiplayer table.
EXPEDITION MAP. No, my caps lock wasn't stuck. You need to be playing this; Riptide Laboratory is easily the most important card in any annoying Venser deck
Finally, your list could really benefit from Fabricate and Tezzeret the Seeker. Tutors for your Shards and Shackles (and to a lesser degree mana stones) are a huge deal.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Deathmantle; seems like an odd choice, even with all the 187 creatures you're playing.
Huzzah! Another mono-Blue list that is well-built.
I would strongly suggest adding either Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius. An instant speed draw-X spell allows you to capitalize on playing an instant speed based deck that recycles Venser for maximum control. I thought about having him as my general, and decided that I like Ertai, Wizard Adept a little more as a competitive control general. I might also suggest adding him. He is quite good by himself, requiring a bit of protection to get maximum efficiency out of him.
Also add some mana-doublers. They allow you to keep up with the stupid ramp decks that are spewing ungodly amounts of mana in a too-quick time-frame.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
Ok... I cut some of the one shot bounce effects, teferi, and a few other things I sort of viewed as not necesarily needed. I was thinking about Sapphire Medallion as an add as well as some nonbasic land searching. Mana doublers would be nice as well but I dont really know about how expensive they are...
I am going to go back through the last bunch of posts as I need to catch up on a few things. I will post some edits as I have them.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Ok I got arround to proxying up most of the list. Some things are still sort of floating in and out of the deck trying out some things and figuring out what I want to do with this list.
First of all I have to say I love Venser as a commander. As long as I have mana up it makes people sort of freak out about him being a possibility. That being said I think using him less and just threatening to do so is the way to go with him. When I tap out and or have him in play it is harder to make people squirm about him coming down.
Here is a short recap of a few games I had this weekend:
GAME 1: 1v1 vs an Olivia Voldaren deck. We both are tecnically running multiplayer decks however he has a ton of spot land removal so I have to try to get through like 15-20 Stone Rain effects... yay tons of fun
I struggle in my land base but I got a 2 mana stone in play which helps me out. I manage to keep drawing lands for a bit which helps out and he ends up stripping like 3-4 of them before he runs out in hand. I struggle up to 5 mana finally between stones and land. He has been taking most of his turns just to slow me down so he has more mana but has been using most of his mana to answer my mana. I drop a Bribery and go get his Ulamog. He has no answers and dies to his own ulamog.
Game 2: Same matchup 1v1 vs the same deck. The game actually goes very surprisingly like the first game with him blowing up some land. He is a bit slower though which lets me hit 4 mana with a stone and drop in Venser bouncing his Rakdos Carnarium for a huge tempo swing lol that was fun. I topdeck Bribery next turn and slam his Ulamog again to crush him lol.
Game 3: Again 1v1 vs Olivia. He is so kind to let me go first as I am sick of him owning my landbase starting at 2 land... I hit a Wayfarer's Bauble and a Darksteel Ingot + land in the opening hand. I manage my way to 4 mana when he is still at 2 on my turn. I drop Venser just to give him a taste of his own medicine bouncing a land to his hand and stalling him in the early game.
From here I manage to draw Riptide Laboratory and lolz my way into bouncing Venser + slaming him back down stalling him at the 3-4 land mark for a long time. I keep bouncing his red source and he can establish 2 of them so he gets sort of screwed in the fact that he cant use his LD in hand which has RR in its cost. I set up sort of a recursive Gilded Drake + Venser theft chain and he stops playing creatures. At this point I have let up on his land a bit and started bouncing other things such as threats and his No Mercy that he keeps dropping to sneek land out. However I have like nothing to do but drop land so I keep bouncing it so I can continue poking him with my Kederekt Leviathan that I was forced to play just to start some pressure on him. It is a slow ride to victory but I flash in a Snapcaster Mage at the end of his turn to add in the last 2 damage I was going to need to kill him. It wasnt fancy but it worked.
I get totally land screwed 2 mana opening hand and I mulligan to try to get more and dont get any more... I stall at 2 mana for a few turns but manage to get out of it after drawing Reliquary Tower + mana stones. I ended up getting up to like 10 mana between stones and colorless mana but I got bottlenecked at 3 U mana sources all game... It really blew and then once I tapped out on my turn due to my own Tangle Wire which totally backfired on me BTW Mayel dropped a creature tutor to top of library and pulled Blightsteel Colossus off with his commander... His turn started and Kamahl burned my critter away and he one shotted me... yays what a lame win... Ruhan died quickly behind me but he stalled it like 2-3 turns out but died in the end.
GAME 5: Same 3 player match as the last one ended quite quickly. This time I keep my mana up and keep dropping land. When Mayael goes to drop his commander at 5 mana I Hinder her to save me some time. The game comes back to me and I Bribery his Blightsteel Colossus out again intending him the same fate as I last game. Luckily it passes around the table without incodent and I drop my Phyrexian Metamorph as a copy of the blightsteel and prepare to roll face. I take a swing at Ruhan which doesnt work so well as he prevents my damage and keeps my damn creature tapped down for next turn too. I end up taking a few turns to seal it off but I end up killing Mayael first as he had a better deck and I sort of worried about if he managed an answer I would have a harder time finishing the game. I then used my metamorphed copy to finish off Ruhan over a few turns.
So.... Bribery won me most of my games lol. I think I need more card draw in the deck as I noticed a real issue with drawing cards so I think that will be my focus for improvement here. I will work on bringing that up and give it another shot. The deck was fairly fun but I think I should probably focus on more instant speed options to keep up options...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I havent given up on my bouncy castle yet A few changes I was gona toss about:
Tangle Wire -> Tawnos's Coffin the wire totally backfired on me and actually caused my death the other day lol. I know it is good but I had a bad experience with it and for now I am going to try out the coffin instead. I like how I can deal with opposing commanders this way temporarily.
Phantasmal Image -> Body Double this swap lets me essentially rez something out of grave. I am not entirely convinced that this is a great swap but I wanted to try it out. I might still bring the image back in...
Dream Fracture -> Spin into Myth I was having trouble with some opposing commanders such as Mayael who was just cheating things past a few counters I had in hand... I would rather an answer for something in play currently.
Walk the Aeons ehhh the extra turns are alright but I think I will cut back to just one of them. I want more card draw in its place but I am not set on which one yet...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well... I updated my decklist for venser. We are going away from the everything is bouncy idea and going more towards copy and steal everything. I am hoping to copy a bunch of titans and jack the board up.
I really like how venser works with some of the theft based cards as I can use him to bounce my my means of theft if it is in jeopardy which is nice. I still want to fit Helm of Possession in here if I can... I like how it gives me a sac outlet to get rid of stolen things and or cycle venser back around if need be.
The list changed a lot and I didnt try to keep track of all the changes as the list is just running differently than it was before. Hopefully I can sleeve it back up for some test games soon.
EDIT:Aura Thief is also on my wishlist for this list.
Unfortunately, I just don't see how Retraced Image gives me a speed boost. It is too narrowly depending upon opponents playing the same cards as I am. I think it is just too narrow generally speaking for commander.
There are a lot of things I am still sort of considering for inclusion in this deck... I would love to include Nim Deathmantle, a few Swords, more clones... there just isn't room for everything I want currently. Plus I could probably use a bit more ramp in here... I was sort of banking off of my clone creatures to copy some of my opponent's ramp options currently.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
All which also lets you keep mana open for counters as well. The walking atlas works quite well actually. Since it looks like such a crap card people usually never touch it and might even not attack you thinking your deck is bad, but in reality dropping two lands per turn is really good.
Out of all of the decks I have built and dissassembled I keep coming back to Venser... Something about him as a commander he is just so damn fun and versatile. I love bouncing those stupid rav bounce lands that people play because they are so used to them having no downside. I love having this evil spell of a commander that everyone hates when he comes down on them. Just the threat of him alone is enough to make people play arround him. Anyways I have a few other changes for this deck as I am trying to get it back up and running. I really like the idea of a sort of control / non combo blue deck for me to play and I really like the idea of Venser heading it up.
Some new changes for the list:
Sky Diamond -> Mitotic Manipulation I see a lot of artifact wrath effects in my meta. It feels like an Austere Command / Oblivion Stone goes off at least 1-2 times in a good game so this change gives me a turn slower land ramp effect. More importantly though I have actually seen this work later in the game for a lot of other targets such as Divining Top, Sol Ring, and a few other commonly played cards. Regardless when peeling 7 cards I should have a very very high chance of seeing a single island in that. I am going to give it a shot as the other player I saw play this seemed to like it and it was working out for him.
CUTS: Keiga, the Tide Star I dont really like Keiga too much as she has to die to trigger. Is Keiga a he or she... hummm anyways I feel like this is a woopsie wrath and no results type of card. I cant abuse it with any of my bouncing stuff either so I think it is the weak link of my list right now. She is also expensive to cast so I feel fine cutting her out.
Tawnos's Coffin it is really mana intensive. I like it however it also sort of sets up the option for infinite turns off of Time Warp + Mnemonic Wall. I think the coffin is cool but a little spendy to drop + use. For now I think I will pull it back out of the list.
Preordain I like it as a small draw effect but I needed to make some room for other things. A single filter effect isnt going to do much for me overall. I like it still but for now out it goes.
Time Stretch too damn expensive. I want to cut back a little and I think this is a perfect place to do so.
ADDS: Acquire 5 mana to pull any artifact from an opponent sounds like fun. I know there are a few Blightsteels still in my meta and worse case I can probably pull an O Stone or a Metamorph to clone something. I like the versatility of this and I cant believe I didn't run it more before this.
Reins of Power sort of a fun little trick but it can borrow a Primeval Titan for a turn or borrow someone else's creatures to block for me. This can be used sort of as a mini Insurrection. I just love all the options it really does have.
Spin into Myth I don't have a ton of answers to threats so I figured I would add another tuck effect. I might have to sort of question if it is better to have cheap removal or tuck though as I notice I don't have Pongify in here either... That will be a question I might have to bring up when I get this suited back up for play.
Cloudstone Curio? Venser can now bounce himself with his own ability and allow you to bounce another one of your ETB creatures to hand for future use, thats pretty freakin awesome
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Venser I originally built to be sort of my Emperor style of deck however as I played it I found him to be a blast and I started wondering why I was focusing on it being an emperor deck when it could easily work well as a standalone FFA style of deck.
I started out packing combos but as always I find them lame so I stripped them out. Now I am focusing on cloneing, stealing, and bouncing primarily. Venser is an amazing commander as people just play arround him like I can use him on every spell they play. It is quite comical and so just keeping him off the board with the mana to play him sort of freaks people out.
Well anyways, lets see what Venser's Bouncy Castle entails these days. Here is the list:
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
CREATURES (18)
1 Gilded Drake
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Archaeomancer
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sakashima's Student
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Body Double
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Duplicant
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
ARTIFACT (14)
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Mind Stone
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Crystal Shard
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Mimic Vat
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Erratic Portal
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Mystic Remora
1 Rhystic Study
1 Back to Basics
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Parallax Tide
1 Treachery
INSTANT (14)
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pongify
1 Arcane Denial
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Twincast
1 Capsize
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Reins of Power
1 Sunder
SORCERY (7)
1 Fabricate
1 Rite of Replication
1 Acquire
1 Bribery
1 Time Warp
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
LAND (39)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 High Market
31 Island
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Strip Mine
For anyone who hasnt considered Venser as a commander I just have to say that there are so many hilarious shinanigans you can pull off with him. Some of my favorite being:
I figure I should come up with a bit of a wishlist for some other optional cards if something isnt working out or if I find some holes in what I am running:
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Helm of Possession
1 Expedition Map
1 Pact of Negation
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Future Sight
1 Cloudstone Curio
With that I suppose I should mention some of the cards I tried out that didnt work for me...
Tangle Wire I see sort of a lot of token based decks and I generally don't have the most resources in play. If I had more taxation / stax feel to the list I could see this working out better for me but it was a situation where if I didn't get it in play right away I kept being hurt more than my opponents by this type of card.
Sunken Hope I tried it and it is cute but the fact that I lack the control of what gets bounced sucks. Most of my meta runs heavy on ETB creatures or at least the people who play decently good agro decks do. Unless I can tax their creatures coming back in or something generally this gives away too much to opponents. I didn't like it much due to this.
Tidespout Tyrant Outside of going infinite to bounce all of my opponents stuff I really don't like him. He is slow and big and rarely lasts a turn. He just doesn't do anything fast enough and he is sort of horrifying if left alone so I don't like him due to that. Perhaps if I wanted to run combo I would run him again but meh.
Planchiron another one of those creatures I am going to chalk up to amazing if you are planning on using combo and sort of ****ty otherwise. He is great... at comboing and that is about it.
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I would put in more artifacts that produce U, mono blue decks tend to be pretty hungry. Star Compass and Coldsteel Heart could easily replace Wayfarer's Bauble + something else.
Your curve looks really heavy on the high end, I would consider cutting some of the fat for more "smoothing cards" like Ponder, Brainstorm, and Impulse. Mystic Remora might also be a good early drop. Treachery is also super solid creature theft, it should have a place.
You are running enough good wizards that Vedalken Aethermage could help you toolbox a bit. I also think Azami is pretty solid card drawing if you are going to be running so many wizards and Riptide Laboratory. She is probably better than Sphinx of Uthuun, as you have very few ways to generate lots of mana and a mono-U deck doesn't really want to be tapping out that late in the game for a big dumb beater.
Speaking of the high end, running Sphinx, Kederekt Leviathan, Sundering Titan, Jin Gitaxis, and Ulamog feels a bit like overkill. I know you are used to playing decks with green, but my experience with mono U is that your mana development is slow and you rarely want to tap out. You can go the very fast mana artifact route, but that package really changes how your deck plays and can be fairly expensive.
Edit: Tawnos's Coffin seems like it really isn't doing a whole lot. Stroke of Genius and Blue Sun's Zenith are both solid instant speed card draw. Also, Spin Into Myth gives you some much needed spot removal.
Thanks for the comments... I think ulamog is probably going to be cut. I was thinking about that myself... Good call on Azami over the sphinx too... I will see what I can do about the rest.
The coffin might be a little too clunky too I was just hoping to get a few more abuse effects for my ETB stuff. I want to at least give it a shot before removing it. I have owned the damn thing forever and I cant get it to stick to a list.
EDIT: as for the name it was more as just a reference to the fact that the deck and Venser are all bouncy happy so I thought about one of those blow up castles that you bounce around in. It seemed like a fun twist on what the deck does. Plus who doesn't just grin at the thought of a full grown man bouncing in a blow up castle lol.
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Well... they serve a different kind of annoyance. The Arbiter is more about the taxation effects whereas Venser is about being a counterspell on a stick of a commander. I sort of like the idea of a flash counterspell commander in a pinch.
They could both work as the commander for this type of deck though. Still I think it would take a different approach for Grand Arbiter.
EDIT: I went ahead and cut the coffin for another mana stone... I got a few more stones in but I wouldnt mind finding just a little more room for them... Also I am wondering if I shouldnt find a larger effect stone perhaps Thran Dynamo or Gauntlet of Power or something of the sort...
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[Modern] Allies
bad for them great for you!
wash out for all those token decks
Come get your medicine... and Free signature
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UBGrimgrin EDHBU
Hey good calls... I will have to see if I can make some room for them.
Also Inundate along the same lines would be great... Fun stuff let me see if I can find room.
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[Modern] Allies
Counterspell -> Sunken Hope
Acquire -> Thirst for Knowledge
I also cut Acquire as I have always found it miles worse than Bribery. I wanted a little more card draw so I will try out Thirst for Knowledge for now and see how it goes. I thought about Ponder but I hate the damn thing and Brainstorm sucks because I dont have enough shuffle triggers. Impulse would be an alright choice but I feel like Thirst has a chance of generating some card advantage instead so I will give it a shot.
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[Modern] Allies
GAVII is totally the way to go.
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
However that is not the gameplan for this deck... I just wanted a mono U annoying control deck. I like that my commander is a stall counter or a bounce...
I am aware of the alternate options I am just choosing not do run him.
I already have a bant ETB effect deck and I just dont see the reason to make a UW ETB deck. I just want a U bounce deck.
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[Modern] Allies
OOOO that does look like fun. I would love strapping Nim Deathmantle onto him... Hummm maybe I will have to consider if a Sword deserves a slot as well... I will think it over...
EDIT: Temporal Adept could also be fun... I will have to think over more of this bouncing stuff... seems like fun thats for sure.
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[Modern] Allies
Phantasmal Image is a fine card, but it's outclassed in almost every way by Metamorph (especially considering you won't be able to reuse it) - I'd replace it with Body Double if you're not playing Palinchron.
I'm not a fan of Azami in a non-Azami list. She's too expensive; I'd try Overwhelming Intellect instead.
Equilibrium is a good card, but is this the right place for it? Same with Sunken Hope. Why not play Temporal Adept? Your other bounce outlets (Shards, Riptide) should prove more than adequate for reusing 187s, and Venser ensures that nothing threatening will stick for long. The points brought up regarding Sunken Hope just seem invalid here; you aren't really able to deny your opponents simply abusing it for CIP triggers at a multiplayer table.
EXPEDITION MAP. No, my caps lock wasn't stuck. You need to be playing this; Riptide Laboratory is easily the most important card in any annoying Venser deck
Finally, your list could really benefit from Fabricate and Tezzeret the Seeker. Tutors for your Shards and Shackles (and to a lesser degree mana stones) are a huge deal.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Deathmantle; seems like an odd choice, even with all the 187 creatures you're playing.
Just be a jerk and run Tidespout tyrant and lock the game down with planchiron gaunlets of power/caged sun
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UBGrimgrin EDHBU
I would strongly suggest adding either Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius. An instant speed draw-X spell allows you to capitalize on playing an instant speed based deck that recycles Venser for maximum control. I thought about having him as my general, and decided that I like Ertai, Wizard Adept a little more as a competitive control general. I might also suggest adding him. He is quite good by himself, requiring a bit of protection to get maximum efficiency out of him.
Also add some mana-doublers. They allow you to keep up with the stupid ramp decks that are spewing ungodly amounts of mana in a too-quick time-frame.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
I am going to go back through the last bunch of posts as I need to catch up on a few things. I will post some edits as I have them.
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[Modern] Allies
First of all I have to say I love Venser as a commander. As long as I have mana up it makes people sort of freak out about him being a possibility. That being said I think using him less and just threatening to do so is the way to go with him. When I tap out and or have him in play it is harder to make people squirm about him coming down.
Here is a short recap of a few games I had this weekend:
GAME 1: 1v1 vs an Olivia Voldaren deck. We both are tecnically running multiplayer decks however he has a ton of spot land removal so I have to try to get through like 15-20 Stone Rain effects... yay tons of fun
I struggle in my land base but I got a 2 mana stone in play which helps me out. I manage to keep drawing lands for a bit which helps out and he ends up stripping like 3-4 of them before he runs out in hand. I struggle up to 5 mana finally between stones and land. He has been taking most of his turns just to slow me down so he has more mana but has been using most of his mana to answer my mana. I drop a Bribery and go get his Ulamog. He has no answers and dies to his own ulamog.
Game 2: Same matchup 1v1 vs the same deck. The game actually goes very surprisingly like the first game with him blowing up some land. He is a bit slower though which lets me hit 4 mana with a stone and drop in Venser bouncing his Rakdos Carnarium for a huge tempo swing lol that was fun. I topdeck Bribery next turn and slam his Ulamog again to crush him lol.
Game 3: Again 1v1 vs Olivia. He is so kind to let me go first as I am sick of him owning my landbase starting at 2 land... I hit a Wayfarer's Bauble and a Darksteel Ingot + land in the opening hand. I manage my way to 4 mana when he is still at 2 on my turn. I drop Venser just to give him a taste of his own medicine bouncing a land to his hand and stalling him in the early game.
From here I manage to draw Riptide Laboratory and lolz my way into bouncing Venser + slaming him back down stalling him at the 3-4 land mark for a long time. I keep bouncing his red source and he can establish 2 of them so he gets sort of screwed in the fact that he cant use his LD in hand which has RR in its cost. I set up sort of a recursive Gilded Drake + Venser theft chain and he stops playing creatures. At this point I have let up on his land a bit and started bouncing other things such as threats and his No Mercy that he keeps dropping to sneek land out. However I have like nothing to do but drop land so I keep bouncing it so I can continue poking him with my Kederekt Leviathan that I was forced to play just to start some pressure on him. It is a slow ride to victory but I flash in a Snapcaster Mage at the end of his turn to add in the last 2 damage I was going to need to kill him. It wasnt fancy but it worked.
GAME 4: 3 player game vs a stock out of the box Ruhan of the Fomori and Mayael the Anima who is fairly competative.
I get totally land screwed 2 mana opening hand and I mulligan to try to get more and dont get any more... I stall at 2 mana for a few turns but manage to get out of it after drawing Reliquary Tower + mana stones. I ended up getting up to like 10 mana between stones and colorless mana but I got bottlenecked at 3 U mana sources all game... It really blew and then once I tapped out on my turn due to my own Tangle Wire which totally backfired on me BTW Mayel dropped a creature tutor to top of library and pulled Blightsteel Colossus off with his commander... His turn started and Kamahl burned my critter away and he one shotted me... yays what a lame win... Ruhan died quickly behind me but he stalled it like 2-3 turns out but died in the end.
GAME 5: Same 3 player match as the last one ended quite quickly. This time I keep my mana up and keep dropping land. When Mayael goes to drop his commander at 5 mana I Hinder her to save me some time. The game comes back to me and I Bribery his Blightsteel Colossus out again intending him the same fate as I last game. Luckily it passes around the table without incodent and I drop my Phyrexian Metamorph as a copy of the blightsteel and prepare to roll face. I take a swing at Ruhan which doesnt work so well as he prevents my damage and keeps my damn creature tapped down for next turn too. I end up taking a few turns to seal it off but I end up killing Mayael first as he had a better deck and I sort of worried about if he managed an answer I would have a harder time finishing the game. I then used my metamorphed copy to finish off Ruhan over a few turns.
So.... Bribery won me most of my games lol. I think I need more card draw in the deck as I noticed a real issue with drawing cards so I think that will be my focus for improvement here. I will work on bringing that up and give it another shot. The deck was fairly fun but I think I should probably focus on more instant speed options to keep up options...
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[Modern] Allies
Tangle Wire -> Tawnos's Coffin the wire totally backfired on me and actually caused my death the other day lol. I know it is good but I had a bad experience with it and for now I am going to try out the coffin instead. I like how I can deal with opposing commanders this way temporarily.
Phantasmal Image -> Body Double this swap lets me essentially rez something out of grave. I am not entirely convinced that this is a great swap but I wanted to try it out. I might still bring the image back in...
Dream Fracture -> Spin into Myth I was having trouble with some opposing commanders such as Mayael who was just cheating things past a few counters I had in hand... I would rather an answer for something in play currently.
Walk the Aeons ehhh the extra turns are alright but I think I will cut back to just one of them. I want more card draw in its place but I am not set on which one yet...
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[Modern] Allies
I really like how venser works with some of the theft based cards as I can use him to bounce my my means of theft if it is in jeopardy which is nice. I still want to fit Helm of Possession in here if I can... I like how it gives me a sac outlet to get rid of stolen things and or cycle venser back around if need be.
The list changed a lot and I didnt try to keep track of all the changes as the list is just running differently than it was before. Hopefully I can sleeve it back up for some test games soon.
EDIT: Aura Thief is also on my wishlist for this list.
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[Modern] Allies
Gives a bit of a speed boost.
There are a lot of things I am still sort of considering for inclusion in this deck... I would love to include Nim Deathmantle, a few Swords, more clones... there just isn't room for everything I want currently. Plus I could probably use a bit more ramp in here... I was sort of banking off of my clone creatures to copy some of my opponent's ramp options currently.
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[Modern] Allies
Retraced image works fine to cheat your own island into play. I have a friend who swears by it in blue decks that draw lots.
Anyways a better package might be
Armillary Sphere, Journeyer's Kite, Walking Atlas, Terrain Generator
All which also lets you keep mana open for counters as well. The walking atlas works quite well actually. Since it looks like such a crap card people usually never touch it and might even not attack you thinking your deck is bad, but in reality dropping two lands per turn is really good.
Some new changes for the list:
Sky Diamond -> Mitotic Manipulation I see a lot of artifact wrath effects in my meta. It feels like an Austere Command / Oblivion Stone goes off at least 1-2 times in a good game so this change gives me a turn slower land ramp effect. More importantly though I have actually seen this work later in the game for a lot of other targets such as Divining Top, Sol Ring, and a few other commonly played cards. Regardless when peeling 7 cards I should have a very very high chance of seeing a single island in that. I am going to give it a shot as the other player I saw play this seemed to like it and it was working out for him.
CUTS:
Keiga, the Tide Star I dont really like Keiga too much as she has to die to trigger. Is Keiga a he or she... hummm anyways I feel like this is a woopsie wrath and no results type of card. I cant abuse it with any of my bouncing stuff either so I think it is the weak link of my list right now. She is also expensive to cast so I feel fine cutting her out.
Tawnos's Coffin it is really mana intensive. I like it however it also sort of sets up the option for infinite turns off of Time Warp + Mnemonic Wall. I think the coffin is cool but a little spendy to drop + use. For now I think I will pull it back out of the list.
Preordain I like it as a small draw effect but I needed to make some room for other things. A single filter effect isnt going to do much for me overall. I like it still but for now out it goes.
Time Stretch too damn expensive. I want to cut back a little and I think this is a perfect place to do so.
ADDS:
Acquire 5 mana to pull any artifact from an opponent sounds like fun. I know there are a few Blightsteels still in my meta and worse case I can probably pull an O Stone or a Metamorph to clone something. I like the versatility of this and I cant believe I didn't run it more before this.
Reins of Power sort of a fun little trick but it can borrow a Primeval Titan for a turn or borrow someone else's creatures to block for me. This can be used sort of as a mini Insurrection. I just love all the options it really does have.
Spin into Myth I don't have a ton of answers to threats so I figured I would add another tuck effect. I might have to sort of question if it is better to have cheap removal or tuck though as I notice I don't have Pongify in here either... That will be a question I might have to bring up when I get this suited back up for play.
Knowledge Exploitation pulls up things I otherwise dont have such as removal via Wrath effects or cool tutors like Tooth and Nail.
Well that's all for now,
Keep Bouncin
Venser
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[Modern] Allies