Bant bounce is nothing new, but this is my own particular take on it with an eye toward being an interactive deck that can answer most anything thrown at it.
Whatever it is, I’ll likely steal it, counter it, or destroy it.
Deadeye Navigator and the various locks it can get in these colors is fairly well known. People have strong opinions on this card. A lot of people hate to play against it. A lot of people think it’s overcosted and don’t play it in this type of deck. It’s a strong card and it works well in this particular deck.
- Elesh Norn; Ixidron; Mystic Remora;Venser, the Sojourner; Recurring Insight;Fracturing Gust;Swords to Plowshares;Woodfall Primus; Cultivate;Dissipate;Sun Titan
+Conjurer's Closet; Beck // Call; Reap and Sow;Plasm Capture;Sylvan Primordial;Lavinia of the Tenth;Yavimaya Granger;Diluvian Primordial;Elvish Visionary;Deglamer;Brutalizer Exarch;Rhystic Study
It's very much a tool box/card advantage engine deck that eschews certain types of cards in order to be more flexible/reactive. With that in mind, I want to deal with specific problem permanents rather than sweeping them in most cases.
Fiend Hunter with any bounce engine will exile anything really scary.
Bouncing Archaeomancer to get back Swords to Plowshares or whatever removal spell I want. Bant Charm is pretty nice... let's put a bunch of your creatures on the bottom of your deck.
Ixidron will deal with a board of threatening fatties pretty handily. It's fairly reasonable to have a way to tutor this up and and then drop Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. Even if Elesh was already out, if you can bounce both creatures Elesh will come down as herself rather than a face down 2/2. Of course this is a mana-heavy solution, but this deck ramps pretty hard and this is a reasonable play mid-late game.
The other factor is that I usually play in a creature-light meta that has a lot more threatening artifacts/enchantments than big creatures. That's the reason Fracturing Gust is in here. That card could easily be switched out for Supreme Verdict or more likely Hallowed Burial.
Because of all the artifact ramping in my meta, I built this to hate pretty hard on artifacts, so if I can get Stony Silence out I've slowed down most of the decks in my group. Of course this card keeps me from using any of the bounce artifacts or equipment. I had Crystal Shard and Mimic Vat in here at one point. I took all of my artifact ramp out in favor of straight up ramp.
Mirari's Wake has been in and out of the deck. It's a huge power boost if I land it, but then whatever line of play I have planned is cut in half when (not if) someone blows it up. I'm sure I'll put it back in but believe it or not I'm trying to lower the curve of the deck as it's pretty top-heavy.
I do have Lightning Greaves in here more as a way to use Rubinia or Beguiler of Wills right away than as a way to protect them. It's a non-bo if I have Stony Silence out, but I'll risk it for one artifact. Using Rubinia isn't my main plan so I'm not too concerned about the protective equipment, aside from the fact that it doesn't have synergy with the deck. If I steal a creature with Rubinia I want to sac it to City of Shadows or High Market if someone goes to get it back. Or cast Cloudshift or use Deadeye Navigator to bounce the stolen creature and take control of it permanently.
Conjurer's Closet isn't shut off by Stony Silence and might actually replace Planeswalker Venser as I'm more interested in his repeated bounce than his ultimate which freaks people out. Of course if I get his ultimate I probably win.
Cloudstone Curio is usually a combo piece, and makes me actually recast the creature... a lot of my creatures are pretty spendy to cast, so I'd rather bounce them than recast them.
I hope that helps. A lot of my decisions were based on decks I usually face in my group, so there are plenty of slots that could be used for something else. At some point I want to make a slimmer version that is more aggro and less big derpy expensive creatures, but this version is pretty fun to play.
Considered the Smuggler. Heck he comes down turn one. But his activation costs four and you have to wait a turn to use him. Dunno, try him out! His closest analogue might be Mistmeadow Witch. What I like about her is she can actually save a creature from a wrath since it comes back end of turn, though back to its owner.
I've had Leyline of Anticipation in here. Flash is nice, but it's another card slot. Living the dream of having that and Seedborn Muse out and playing on everyone's turn is pretty cool, but I have quite a bit I can do already on other people's turns.
Definitely go for more of the useful artifacts... I just made a decision on how I wanted to build the deck for my group. ISBPathfinder's Jenara deck has a lot of the artifacts in it, including Birthing Pod and is a well-tuned blink deck. Check it out if you haven't already.
The green primordial will be replacing Woodfall Primus. It was a rotating Woodfall Primus/Terastodon slot and this guy is actually cheaper than both. The only downgrade from Terastodon is you can't hit multiple targets on one player's board. For the blue one I think Chancellor of the Spires is better if you want to do that sort of thing because though it only gets you one spell, you can bounce it multiple times to use the same spell.
One card you may have missed is synod sanctum . It works great with your general as well as the other theft cards you use. It is also on the blink theme.
One card you may have missed is synod sanctum . It works great with your general as well as the other theft cards you use. It is also on the blink theme.
I did consider this one, and Helvault. My group tends to run a lot of exile removal though, which kinda sucks. During Avacyn Restored I ran Helvault and Avacyn in a deck for fun, and at one point smugly put her in the Helvault to protect her from a tuck spell. Then someone cast Return to Dust.
Even though it means recasting the creature, I prefer Erratic Portal and Crystal Shard... but then again in this deck I'm trying to avoid artifacts almost all together.
Hey, I'll check out your list later on and make comments.
Beguiler surprised me honestly. At first I thought I might not have enough creatures to make her worthwhile, but there are often so many cheap creatures with great abilities. The time I stole someone else's Seedborn Muse with Beguiler and then got to activate Beguiler on each other person's turn stealing a bigger creature each time? Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
I'm a huge fan of enchantments and often build that deck, so kept light on enchantments in this one. Aura Shards is too good not to have in a flicker deck.
wishforfishes, I saw your token deck, and I liked it a lot. One card I run in my Rubinia deck is Stormfront Riders. It bounces, and it makes 2 soldiers. It's a highly underrated card and it works really well in my deck. You can steal a dude and bounce it, or just bounce one of your ETB dudes to play it again.
Any reason for not including Momentary Blink? Would have thought it to be an auto-include for such a deck. Maybe Nephalia Smuggler too? Was it simply too many blink effects and not enough targets etc?
Also I like your mentality on the anti-artifact ramp approach, but denying yourself other artifacts (ramp or blink shennanigan abuseable) based on one hate card you don't even have a way to really tutor up? Seems extreme, but I assume you already got the deck clicking the way you want it.
Other than that, you and I have very similar Bant deck ideas. What would you say have been your typical win conditions in 4 player+ games? Or at the very least, game/board states that forced other players to quit? You deck is very tool box, which is great for Bant, but very few cards to end a game decisively.... you must play a lot of LONG games!
Any reason for not including Momentary Blink? Would have thought it to be an auto-include for such a deck. Maybe Nephalia Smuggler too? Was it simply too many blink effects and not enough targets etc?
Also I like your mentality on the anti-artifact ramp approach, but denying yourself other artifacts (ramp or blink shennanigan abuseable) based on one hate card you don't even have a way to really tutor up? Seems extreme, but I assume you already got the deck clicking the way you want it.
Other than that, you and I have very similar Bant deck ideas. What would you say have been your typical win conditions in 4 player+ games? Or at the very least, game/board states that forced other players to quit? You deck is very tool box, which is great for Bant, but very few cards to end a game decisively.... you must play a lot of LONG games!
Cheers.
As you might imagine, I started with a list of all the bounce engines and chiseled it down.
Momentary Blink gives a stolen creature back to the owner if I bounce it, so I favored Cloudshift and Ghostly Flicker. My favorite bounce engine is actually casting Archaeomancer to return a ramp spell to hand, making him seem less threatening since I 'wasted' him on a ramp spell, then starting a Ghostly Flicker chain with Archaeomancer and whatever else I want to bounce. It happens earlier game than a Deadeye Navigator lockdown can since I don't like to cast Deadeye without the mana to use him right away.
Ironically then I chose Mistmeadow Witch over Nephalia Smuggler because even though she doesn't return a stolen card back to me, she holds on to it until the end of the turn so I can use her to save a creature from a wrath, and she can be used right away where the Smuggler has to tap.
I tend to go artifact crazy in my decks, so really I saw this as an opportunity to build without them. I couldn't not include Greaves and have been strongly considering Null Rod because an artifact that stops artifacts makes me smile. Kataki, War's Wage could be an addition to go even more in on this, but I don't really want to make any cuts.
Win conditions include: attrition, lockdown with a bounce engine, , doing something cool with Rite of Replication, and swinging with stolen creatures.
For awhile the deck had a lot of awkward starts and felt imbalanced, and where it's at now I can't remember the last time I felt like I couldn't do anything at any point during a game, so pretty happy with the current list.
Yea, I am not in a habit of telling a person what they should or should not have, I always assume when someone posts a list, they have a good idea on what they wanna do. Your list isn't weak at all, I can just seeing games become a grind with it, especially when your group gets used to your schemes. It also seems like it'd have a hard time digging itself out of early holes, as you always need a bunch of mana open to become semi-untouchable.
What are your thoughts on the following?:
Cast Through Time- Get way more milage out of your one-timer blink effects and flashbacked spells. At 7cc including UUU, it's borderline obtuse, but can be a crazy way to accelerate out a win by tucking/bouncing/stealing a board.
Devestation Tide- At it's miracle cost or even it's normal 5cc, you can cheaply sweep an entire board while ghostwaying/blink shennanigans your way into superior positions. Insert Terminus or any other cheap wrath/mass bounce if dev tide is not your style.
Rhystic Study- I mean Mystic Remora is cool at 1, but it's not like it's gonna be around that long, 3cc for study seems reasonable for a more reliable draw.
Stoic Angel- a solid 3/4 flying body for 4 that slows down aggresive aggro/creature combo based decks, buying you time to get the pieces you need out. It also plays nicely with blink effects and seedborn muse.
Yea, I am not in a habit of telling a person what they should or should not have, I always assume when someone posts a list, they have a good idea on what they wanna do. Your list isn't weak at all, I can just seeing games become a grind with it, especially when your group gets used to your schemes. It also seems like it'd have a hard time digging itself out of early holes, as you always need a bunch of mana open to become semi-untouchable.
What are your thoughts on the following?:
Cast Through Time- Get way more milage out of your one-timer blink effects and flashbacked spells. At 7cc including UUU, it's borderline obtuse, but can be a crazy way to accelerate out a win by tucking/bouncing/stealing a board.
Devestation Tide- At it's miracle cost or even it's normal 5cc, you can cheaply sweep an entire board while ghostwaying/blink shennanigans your way into superior positions. Insert Terminus or any other cheap wrath/mass bounce if dev tide is not your style.
Rhystic Study- I mean Mystic Remora is cool at 1, but it's not like it's gonna be around that long, 3cc for study seems reasonable for a more reliable draw.
Stoic Angel- a solid 3/4 flying body for 4 that slows down aggresive aggro/creature combo based decks, buying you time to get the pieces you need out. It also plays nicely with blink effects and seedborn muse.
cheers.
I always appreciate comments, suggestions, and critiques. Thank you for taking the time.
Cast Through Time I hadn't seen before, but I'm a little sad in this deck when I bounce Snapcaster Mage and then have to exile the spell afterward. I much prefer to bounce Archaeomancer and Eternal Witness and just plain get the spell back. Snappy is in here as an emergency button more than anything.
Devastation Tide is definitely useful, but it just doesn't fit how I play the deck. As you said, the deck is grindy and I play it when I want to see what other people's decks do while being able to respond if I don't like what I see. I would probably slot in Kederekt Leviathan if I wanted this kind of effect more, or put Evacuation back in since it's instant.
Rhystic Study is great and I should have both in here if for no other reason aside from it being fun to say 'Rhystic Mystic Combo'. I don't even own one right now so I should get one and try it out. Why I tend to prefer Mystic is that for between 1 to 3 mana I draw at least 4 cards, 6 on average. It's also less of a pain during play as people rarely have the 4 mana to tap to stop it anyways.
Stoic Angel is good. I love seeing a slow down card I'm not familiar with. Going to get one and play with it. Only drawback I can see is it becomes enough of a thorn in other people's sides that I might become a target. This deck generally doesn't become a threat until it's ready to protect its position.
It sounds like you have a really delicate threat/not a threat balance in this deck. I wonder if you should worry so much about it? In my groups, the player who wins often is normally the target, at least until somene plays a real threat... I'd think cards like stoic angel, while annoying, is really just passive aggressive and effects everyone so it's more political than anything. Of course try it and see if it's your style though
Quick note, Cast Through Time only exiles them for rebound on the next turn, once their rebound effect is resolved they are put into your graveyard normally. So do think about it from that perspective.
Good luck finding that political balance. With my version, the minute Deadeye hits the table, I am a target. So I have to be ready to disrupt everyone in order to play him, so it's usually very slow games and I use a tad bit more countermagic to defend myself.
- Elesh Norn; Ixidron; Mystic Remora;Venser, the Sojourner; Recurring Insight;Fracturing Gust;Swords to Plowshares;Woodfall Primus; Cultivate;Dissipate;Sun Titan
+Conjurer's Closet; Beck // Call; Reap and Sow;Plasm Capture;Sylvan Primordial;Lavinia of the Tenth;Yavimaya Granger;Diluvian Primordial;Elvish Visionary;Deglamer;Brutalizer Exarch;Rhystic Study
Trying out new cards: Beck // Call may not stay, but has to be tried. Plasm Capture seems good since I can't afford a Mana Drain right now. Lavinia of the Tenth is amazing. It's surprising how much this card does the first time you cast it, and if you can bounce it you're in for a treat. And a win most likely.
Put in two of the oncolor primordials. Sylvan is just duh, Diluvian Primordial has yet to hit play, but I have great expectations.
Recognizing that Venser is too much of a target and Conjurer's Closet is better since I really just want the bounce value out of Venser anyways.
Brutalizer Exarch has been in the deck for awhile now and is one of the most amazing cards in the deck. Aside from being pricey the first time you cast it, being able to tuck anything but creatures (I recently tucked a High Market that was causing problems) or tutor up an answer is awesome.
Been learning more about how this deck plays. It's easy to overextend as there's enough ramp and fun things to cast that you can power out pretty quickly. Every time I've done that I stop a player or two and then don't have enough resources for the other guy who is holding back. The key in a deck that is basically built on having answers and then ultimately locking the board down with Draining Whelk/Deadeye Navigator (because I've had to face that has been the way I've won most games) is to play it slooooooow and stop scary stuff.
Did I mention how awesome Lavinia of the Tenth is? I think I'm voting her as my favorite legendary creature out of DGM. Melek certainly has cool stuff you can do with him, but she completely changes the board state when she comes into play.
Another cool note: I got to play this alongside Scott's Jenara deck, which is similar to ISB's bant deck. Fun to see the similarities and differences in deck make-up/game play for two bant decks with similar strategies.
I have a question about Rubinia. If you copy her, and leave one of the two tapped (let's say u keep tapped the original Ruby), will the token-copy be able to untap without losing control of the creature, since ruby says "as long as you control Rubinia and Rubinia remains tapped"?
In other words, does the text refer to THIS Rubinia or to A Rubinia?
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Whatever it is, I’ll likely steal it, counter it, or destroy it.
Deadeye Navigator and the various locks it can get in these colors is fairly well known. People have strong opinions on this card. A lot of people hate to play against it. A lot of people think it’s overcosted and don’t play it in this type of deck. It’s a strong card and it works well in this particular deck.
I have two counter locks with Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk. Fiend Hunter can exile as many creatures as I have 1U. Brutalizer Exarch can tuck everything but creatures with each bounce. Bouncing Acidic Slime is nothing new but very effective. Seedborn Muse makes it all ridiculous.
This deck eschews artifacts and so gets a lot of mileage out of Stony Silence.
1 Rubinia Soulsinger
Bounce
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Stonecloaker
1 Restoration Angel
1 Deadeye Navigator
Ramp
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Recursion
1 Karmic Guide
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reveillark
1 Arachaeomancer
Steal/Copy
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Beguiler of Wills
1 Diluvian Primordial
Counter/Removal
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Mystic Snake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Draining Whelk
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Acidic Slime
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Duplicant
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Lavinia of the Tenth
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Mulldrifter
Other
1 Spike Weaver
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Cloudshift
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Krosan Grip
1 Beast Within
1 Oblation
1 Bant Charm
1 Ghostway
1 Cylconic Rift
1 Deglamer
1 Hinder
1 Voidslime
1 Plasm Capture
1 Eladamri’s Call
1 Chord of Calling
1 Farseek
1 Kodama’s Reach
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Reap and Sow
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Beck // Call
1 Austere Command
1 Wargate
1 Rite of Replication
1 Aura Shards
1 Rhystic Study
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Strip Mine
1 City of Shadows
1 Alchemist’s Refuge
1 Reliquary Tower
1 High Market
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Breeding Pool
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Command Tower
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Flooded Grove
1 Wooded Bastion
8 Forest
5 Plains
7 Island
5/13
- Elesh Norn; Ixidron; Mystic Remora;Venser, the Sojourner; Recurring Insight;Fracturing Gust;Swords to Plowshares;Woodfall Primus; Cultivate;Dissipate;Sun Titan
+Conjurer's Closet; Beck // Call; Reap and Sow;Plasm Capture;Sylvan Primordial;Lavinia of the Tenth;Yavimaya Granger;Diluvian Primordial;Elvish Visionary;Deglamer;Brutalizer Exarch;Rhystic Study
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
It's very much a tool box/card advantage engine deck that eschews certain types of cards in order to be more flexible/reactive. With that in mind, I want to deal with specific problem permanents rather than sweeping them in most cases.
Fiend Hunter with any bounce engine will exile anything really scary.
Bouncing Archaeomancer to get back Swords to Plowshares or whatever removal spell I want. Bant Charm is pretty nice... let's put a bunch of your creatures on the bottom of your deck.
Bouncing Venser, Shaper Savant to pull problems off the table.
Ixidron will deal with a board of threatening fatties pretty handily. It's fairly reasonable to have a way to tutor this up and and then drop Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. Even if Elesh was already out, if you can bounce both creatures Elesh will come down as herself rather than a face down 2/2. Of course this is a mana-heavy solution, but this deck ramps pretty hard and this is a reasonable play mid-late game.
The other factor is that I usually play in a creature-light meta that has a lot more threatening artifacts/enchantments than big creatures. That's the reason Fracturing Gust is in here. That card could easily be switched out for Supreme Verdict or more likely Hallowed Burial.
Because of all the artifact ramping in my meta, I built this to hate pretty hard on artifacts, so if I can get Stony Silence out I've slowed down most of the decks in my group. Of course this card keeps me from using any of the bounce artifacts or equipment. I had Crystal Shard and Mimic Vat in here at one point. I took all of my artifact ramp out in favor of straight up ramp.
Mirari's Wake has been in and out of the deck. It's a huge power boost if I land it, but then whatever line of play I have planned is cut in half when (not if) someone blows it up. I'm sure I'll put it back in but believe it or not I'm trying to lower the curve of the deck as it's pretty top-heavy.
I do have Lightning Greaves in here more as a way to use Rubinia or Beguiler of Wills right away than as a way to protect them. It's a non-bo if I have Stony Silence out, but I'll risk it for one artifact. Using Rubinia isn't my main plan so I'm not too concerned about the protective equipment, aside from the fact that it doesn't have synergy with the deck. If I steal a creature with Rubinia I want to sac it to City of Shadows or High Market if someone goes to get it back. Or cast Cloudshift or use Deadeye Navigator to bounce the stolen creature and take control of it permanently.
Cloudshift, Ghostly Flicker, Restoration Angel and Deadeye Navigator all return things to the battlefield under your control, so if you've stolen something you get to keep it. Mistmeadow Witch and Venser the Sojourner would give the creature back to its owner.
Conjurer's Closet isn't shut off by Stony Silence and might actually replace Planeswalker Venser as I'm more interested in his repeated bounce than his ultimate which freaks people out. Of course if I get his ultimate I probably win.
Cloudstone Curio is usually a combo piece, and makes me actually recast the creature... a lot of my creatures are pretty spendy to cast, so I'd rather bounce them than recast them.
I hope that helps. A lot of my decisions were based on decks I usually face in my group, so there are plenty of slots that could be used for something else. At some point I want to make a slimmer version that is more aggro and less big derpy expensive creatures, but this version is pretty fun to play.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I've had Leyline of Anticipation in here. Flash is nice, but it's another card slot. Living the dream of having that and Seedborn Muse out and playing on everyone's turn is pretty cool, but I have quite a bit I can do already on other people's turns.
Definitely go for more of the useful artifacts... I just made a decision on how I wanted to build the deck for my group. ISBPathfinder's Jenara deck has a lot of the artifacts in it, including Birthing Pod and is a well-tuned blink deck. Check it out if you haven't already.
The green primordial will be replacing Woodfall Primus. It was a rotating Woodfall Primus/Terastodon slot and this guy is actually cheaper than both. The only downgrade from Terastodon is you can't hit multiple targets on one player's board. For the blue one I think Chancellor of the Spires is better if you want to do that sort of thing because though it only gets you one spell, you can bounce it multiple times to use the same spell.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
I did consider this one, and Helvault. My group tends to run a lot of exile removal though, which kinda sucks. During Avacyn Restored I ran Helvault and Avacyn in a deck for fun, and at one point smugly put her in the Helvault to protect her from a tuck spell. Then someone cast Return to Dust.
Even though it means recasting the creature, I prefer Erratic Portal and Crystal Shard... but then again in this deck I'm trying to avoid artifacts almost all together.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Beguiler surprised me honestly. At first I thought I might not have enough creatures to make her worthwhile, but there are often so many cheap creatures with great abilities. The time I stole someone else's Seedborn Muse with Beguiler and then got to activate Beguiler on each other person's turn stealing a bigger creature each time? Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
I'm a huge fan of enchantments and often build that deck, so kept light on enchantments in this one. Aura Shards is too good not to have in a flicker deck.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Also I like your mentality on the anti-artifact ramp approach, but denying yourself other artifacts (ramp or blink shennanigan abuseable) based on one hate card you don't even have a way to really tutor up? Seems extreme, but I assume you already got the deck clicking the way you want it.
Other than that, you and I have very similar Bant deck ideas. What would you say have been your typical win conditions in 4 player+ games? Or at the very least, game/board states that forced other players to quit? You deck is very tool box, which is great for Bant, but very few cards to end a game decisively.... you must play a lot of LONG games!
Cheers.
:symu::symr::symw::symb::symg: Dream Halls :symu::symr::symw::symb::symg:
:symu::symw: U/W/x Landstill (now Miracles) :symu::symw:
:symu::symu: Merfolk :symu::symu:
contact me!
As you might imagine, I started with a list of all the bounce engines and chiseled it down.
Momentary Blink gives a stolen creature back to the owner if I bounce it, so I favored Cloudshift and Ghostly Flicker. My favorite bounce engine is actually casting Archaeomancer to return a ramp spell to hand, making him seem less threatening since I 'wasted' him on a ramp spell, then starting a Ghostly Flicker chain with Archaeomancer and whatever else I want to bounce. It happens earlier game than a Deadeye Navigator lockdown can since I don't like to cast Deadeye without the mana to use him right away.
Ironically then I chose Mistmeadow Witch over Nephalia Smuggler because even though she doesn't return a stolen card back to me, she holds on to it until the end of the turn so I can use her to save a creature from a wrath, and she can be used right away where the Smuggler has to tap.
I tend to go artifact crazy in my decks, so really I saw this as an opportunity to build without them. I couldn't not include Greaves and have been strongly considering Null Rod because an artifact that stops artifacts makes me smile. Kataki, War's Wage could be an addition to go even more in on this, but I don't really want to make any cuts.
Win conditions include: attrition, lockdown with a bounce engine, , doing something cool with Rite of Replication, and swinging with stolen creatures.
For awhile the deck had a lot of awkward starts and felt imbalanced, and where it's at now I can't remember the last time I felt like I couldn't do anything at any point during a game, so pretty happy with the current list.
For you bant token deckbuilders, check out Weebo's Treva list.... looks pretty good: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9233708
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
What are your thoughts on the following?:
Cast Through Time- Get way more milage out of your one-timer blink effects and flashbacked spells. At 7cc including UUU, it's borderline obtuse, but can be a crazy way to accelerate out a win by tucking/bouncing/stealing a board.
Devestation Tide- At it's miracle cost or even it's normal 5cc, you can cheaply sweep an entire board while ghostwaying/blink shennanigans your way into superior positions. Insert Terminus or any other cheap wrath/mass bounce if dev tide is not your style.
Rhystic Study- I mean Mystic Remora is cool at 1, but it's not like it's gonna be around that long, 3cc for study seems reasonable for a more reliable draw.
Stoic Angel- a solid 3/4 flying body for 4 that slows down aggresive aggro/creature combo based decks, buying you time to get the pieces you need out. It also plays nicely with blink effects and seedborn muse.
cheers.
:symu::symr::symw::symb::symg: Dream Halls :symu::symr::symw::symb::symg:
:symu::symw: U/W/x Landstill (now Miracles) :symu::symw:
:symu::symu: Merfolk :symu::symu:
contact me!
I always appreciate comments, suggestions, and critiques. Thank you for taking the time.
Cast Through Time I hadn't seen before, but I'm a little sad in this deck when I bounce Snapcaster Mage and then have to exile the spell afterward. I much prefer to bounce Archaeomancer and Eternal Witness and just plain get the spell back. Snappy is in here as an emergency button more than anything.
Devastation Tide is definitely useful, but it just doesn't fit how I play the deck. As you said, the deck is grindy and I play it when I want to see what other people's decks do while being able to respond if I don't like what I see. I would probably slot in Kederekt Leviathan if I wanted this kind of effect more, or put Evacuation back in since it's instant.
Rhystic Study is great and I should have both in here if for no other reason aside from it being fun to say 'Rhystic Mystic Combo'. I don't even own one right now so I should get one and try it out. Why I tend to prefer Mystic is that for between 1 to 3 mana I draw at least 4 cards, 6 on average. It's also less of a pain during play as people rarely have the 4 mana to tap to stop it anyways.
Stoic Angel is good. I love seeing a slow down card I'm not familiar with. Going to get one and play with it. Only drawback I can see is it becomes enough of a thorn in other people's sides that I might become a target. This deck generally doesn't become a threat until it's ready to protect its position.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Quick note, Cast Through Time only exiles them for rebound on the next turn, once their rebound effect is resolved they are put into your graveyard normally. So do think about it from that perspective.
Good luck finding that political balance. With my version, the minute Deadeye hits the table, I am a target. So I have to be ready to disrupt everyone in order to play him, so it's usually very slow games and I use a tad bit more countermagic to defend myself.
:symu::symr::symw::symb::symg: Dream Halls :symu::symr::symw::symb::symg:
:symu::symw: U/W/x Landstill (now Miracles) :symu::symw:
:symu::symu: Merfolk :symu::symu:
contact me!
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
5/13
- Elesh Norn; Ixidron; Mystic Remora;Venser, the Sojourner; Recurring Insight;Fracturing Gust;Swords to Plowshares;Woodfall Primus; Cultivate;Dissipate;Sun Titan
+Conjurer's Closet; Beck // Call; Reap and Sow;Plasm Capture;Sylvan Primordial;Lavinia of the Tenth;Yavimaya Granger;Diluvian Primordial;Elvish Visionary;Deglamer;Brutalizer Exarch;Rhystic Study
Lowering the curve somewhat: Deglamer and Elvish Visionary are both useful early and late game.
Trying out new cards: Beck // Call may not stay, but has to be tried. Plasm Capture seems good since I can't afford a Mana Drain right now. Lavinia of the Tenth is amazing. It's surprising how much this card does the first time you cast it, and if you can bounce it you're in for a treat. And a win most likely.
Put in two of the oncolor primordials. Sylvan is just duh, Diluvian Primordial has yet to hit play, but I have great expectations.
Recognizing that Venser is too much of a target and Conjurer's Closet is better since I really just want the bounce value out of Venser anyways.
Brutalizer Exarch has been in the deck for awhile now and is one of the most amazing cards in the deck. Aside from being pricey the first time you cast it, being able to tuck anything but creatures (I recently tucked a High Market that was causing problems) or tutor up an answer is awesome.
Been learning more about how this deck plays. It's easy to overextend as there's enough ramp and fun things to cast that you can power out pretty quickly. Every time I've done that I stop a player or two and then don't have enough resources for the other guy who is holding back. The key in a deck that is basically built on having answers and then ultimately locking the board down with Draining Whelk/Deadeye Navigator (because I've had to face that has been the way I've won most games) is to play it slooooooow and stop scary stuff.
Did I mention how awesome Lavinia of the Tenth is? I think I'm voting her as my favorite legendary creature out of DGM. Melek certainly has cool stuff you can do with him, but she completely changes the board state when she comes into play.
Another cool note: I got to play this alongside Scott's Jenara deck, which is similar to ISB's bant deck. Fun to see the similarities and differences in deck make-up/game play for two bant decks with similar strategies.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
In other words, does the text refer to THIS Rubinia or to A Rubinia?