{SA EDH} Kaalia of the Vast [WBR]
DOC – September 2011
”Many Demons travelled to the mortal realm in search of the Three Brothers. These Demons were followed to the mortal plane by Angels who hunted them throughout the vast cities of the East. The Angels allied themselves with a secretive order of mortal Magi named the Horadrim, who quickly became adept at hunting Demons. They also made many dark enemies in the underworlds.”
(*) Denotes foiled card (mostly notation for myself as I trade for them as I seem them ^_~)
(+) Promo Edition
My EDH group follows the MTG Commander website's rules.
All my deck lists are used in matches with my city's playgroup, thus metagame choices may be biased due to location. With subsequent requests & feedback I'll see to adding commentary as to the reasoning behind and strategy for using these card choices.
Cheer the bull, or cheer the bear; cheer both, and you will be trampled and eaten.
EDH Decklist WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url] URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url] WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url] UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url] WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url] WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
Hey there. Just a few thoughts for you as I see some cards I am not sure of in your list. I'm not trying to call you out, I just want to see your reasoning for them, and see if I can suggest better options for the slot, if applicable.
I think a lot of these guys are bad because they don't do anything noteworthy except turn sideways. Two Akromas and Blackroma are the biggest offenders here. Cost a million mana and don't bring anything to the table except damage. Hoard-Smelter Dragon is an exception, he's not like an all-star or anything, but I can respect his inclusion. Notable "bombos" I see are Victory's Herald, Flameblast Dragon and Hellkite Charger, as they don't trigger when Kaalia drops them because they trigger on declare attackers, and Kaalia triggers after that step. Also, no Rakdos the Defiler for the blowout combo? (Just like the former three, Rakdos comes in off of Kaalia and misses his declare trigger, then hits them and they sac half their cards).
Scourge of Kher Ridges I guess is okay. I like Thunder Dragon for that purpose more(you can find him in Knights vs Dragons in case you don't have his copy from Starters or the FTV: Dragons). Bladewing the Risen there's nothing really wrong with him, though I cut him because I don't have as much support for him. I do like Bogardan Hellkite more though.
Eternal Dragon seems like he should be here, but I've actually cut him from my list because he's just slow. And I generally have better things to do with my mana than than regrow this guy. Yes, I do know that he finds dual lands, but I feel like we can do better here. I put Solemn Simulacrum here as well as he directly competes with when we want to drop Kaalia. If Kaalia swings, we seldom even need any more lands so this guy doesn't do anything to further our game plan. I cut him a couple of months ago and I haven't looked back.
I think Admonition Angel is just like Oblivion Ring, and as such is why I would cut it here too. Except Angel is a creature, and thus more fragile than O-Ring. Angelic Arbiter doesn't seem to do much other than piss people off.
Enchantment (5)
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Temporal Isolation
I would assume Temporal Isolation is a meta call, probably a voltron deck like Rafiq is in your area. But Oblivion Ring baffles me. I just don't like it as it's a temporary answer. I'd prefer Oblation here I think. Or since we're at sorcery speed, obligatory Vindicate mention is obligatory, though understandable if you don't have one. If you can get ahold of one, Sneak Attack is awesome for 1v1, again if you can afford it(I can understand, like Vindicate, the card is like $30).
I think you need more artifact mana, which will help you turn 3, or sometimes turn 2 Kaalia which is pretty nuts. Obligatory mention of Swords but as they aren't in your list, I can only assume you just don't have them. I would recommend SoFaI, SoFaF, and SoLaS. If you do a lot of multiplayer, I would recommend SoWaP as well. Personally I think O-Stone is bad, though as I said, I play more artifact mana, and swords so yours may very well be different.
Also, try to use rocks that are 2 or less, as the 3 drop ones like Coalition Relic, don't actually accelerate you into an early Kaalia. The Ravnican Signets are perfect for this.
1 Diabolic Tutor- A tutor is a tutor I get that, but have you considered Praetor's Grasp?
1 Patriarch's Bidding- Do you have enough tribal support for this to ensure you always get more advantage than your opponent?
1 Unburial Rites- I prefer Animate Dead, as I can use Sun Titan to abuse it(and it targets any graveyard). But I can't fault you, Rites is still a very respectable card.
1 Waves of Aggression- I feel you have a lot of extra combat stuff in here. I play only Aggravated Assault and a Sword of Feast and Famine to go infinite with it, personally.
1 World at War (*)
1 Wrath of God- There are so many sweepers available in the format, I feel you can do better than this. Hallowed Burial and Decree of Pain both immediately come to mind.
Instant (6)
1 Master Warcraft- I wonder about this. This could probably be more versatile removal, such as a Chaos Warp, or an Oblation.
1 Savage Beating- This costs a tonne, and the side thing is you won't get to untap and swing again with the fattie you just dropped(summoning sickness). It seems win-more from my perspective.
Land (37)
1 Blackcleave Cliffs- How is this working out for you?
1 Lavaclaw Reaches- Likewise, how does this work out? It seems small and mana intensive, though this could be because my Kaalia blows up the lands in 1v1. Have you considered Hall of the Bandit Lord in this slot? They both EBT.
I absolutely <3 talking about Kaalia(I could go on for hours haha), and hopefully my questions are thought-provoking enough for you as well! Let me know!
@3Drinks - Dragon Mage is a great card in colours without good card draw, I can't imagine a Kaalia deck without it, the risk is entirely acceptable.
Eternal Dragon like wise operates as fixing when it is needed, the option is why it should be run, not to mention another target for Bladewing the Risen, who has always been fantastic for me.
Both Akromas aren't bad either, but of the two, the red one is preferable as the prot. colours hit a lot more things (including path and swords).
The rest of your recommendations I agree with. Liliana Vess should also be here if you can get one.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
@3Drinks - Dragon Mage is a great card in colours without good card draw, I can't imagine a Kaalia deck without it, the risk is entirely acceptable.
I don't know why people say this about Black, the colour is second in card draw to Blue. Phyrexian Arena, Arena Demon, and some amazing huge draw spells in Promise of Power and Moonlight Bargain. I just don't see a reason to give my opponents a draw7 if I don't need to. I would even play Memory Jar before the Dragon.
Eternal Dragon like wise operates as fixing when it is needed, the option is why it should be run, not to mention another target for Bladewing the Risen, who has always been fantastic for me.
Fair point on Bladewing the Risen, I don't have as many dragons, though I run a couple of Praetors and other stuff so it isn't as good. Still say Bogardan Hellkite has a place here.
Both Akromas aren't bad either, but of the two, the red one is preferable as the prot. colours hit a lot more things (including path and swords).
It's because they don't do anything except beatdown. I guess it's needed if he doesn't have the extra added oomph from swords/protection from swords like I have, but they're still sub-optimal.
The rest of your recommendations I agree with. Liliana Vess should also be here if you can get one.
I feel the PWers are just not worth the effort in multiplayer. Liliana Vess will commonly end up being a 5 mana Cruel Tutor. :\ If he can protect them, or his metagame just doesn't gun for them, I guess they're worth it. But it just doesn't seem to be worth the loss.
I don't know why people say this about Black, the colour is second in card draw to Blue. Phyrexian Arena, Arena Demon, and some amazing huge draw spells in Promise of Power and Moonlight Bargain. I just don't see a reason to give my opponents a draw7 if I don't need to. I would even play Memory Jar before the Dragon.
Fair point on Bladewing the Risen, I don't have as many dragons, though I run a couple of Praetors and other stuff so it isn't as good. Still say Bogardan Hellkite has a place here.
It's because they don't do anything except beatdown. I guess it's needed if he doesn't have the extra added oomph from swords/protection from swords like I have, but they're still sub-optimal.
I feel the PWers are just not worth the effort in multiplayer. Liliana Vess will commonly end up being a 5 mana Cruel Tutor. :\ If he can protect them, or his metagame just doesn't gun for them, I guess they're worth it. But it just doesn't seem to be worth the loss.
Dragon Mage is a beater and card draw, honestly, I've found I often hurt them by cycling their hands as much as by helping. It is a very versatile card. Black is a good colour for card draw, but in an aggro deck (at least in this and typical Kaalia builds) you don't want to overload on draw spells and combine them when possible with creatures. Wheel of Fortune is likewise a great spell for this deck that does draw cards for opponents, but whats more is it restocks our hand, which Kaalia needs.
I would run Bogardan Hellkite over the poor angels etc you listed, no reason not to run both. The akromas are not sub-optimal cards, they are very aggresively costed when it comes down to it, and I would rathe run them due to their difficulty to kill without sweepers than something that I would always have to hard cast. The two praetors you favour (red and white) are okay, but in a deck like this you want beaters that you can get value for later on or even at time of casting. Patriarch's Bidding will never have someone naming Praetors to help you and Elesh Norn will die sooner than an Akroma due to threat perception.
This deck is full of big creatures, it's not too much effort to keep one back or a Sunforger on reserve. Liliana can survive a long time in certain metagames too.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Dragon Mage is a beater and card draw, honestly, I've found I often hurt them by cycling their hands as much as by helping. It is a very versatile card. Black is a good colour for card draw, but in an aggro deck (at least in this and typical Kaalia builds) you don't want to overload on draw spells and combine them when possible with creatures. Wheel of Fortune is likewise a great spell for this deck that does draw cards for opponents, but whats more is it restocks our hand, which Kaalia needs.
I suppose. Maybe I've spoiled myself with my Promise and Arena, I just can't imagine a black deck without them. They provide soooooo much gas.
I would run Bogardan Hellkite over the poor angels etc you listed, no reason not to run both. The akromas are not sub-optimal cards, they are very aggresively costed when it comes down to it, and I would rathe run them due to their difficulty to kill without sweepers than something that I would always have to hard cast. The two praetors you favour (red and white) are okay, but in a deck like this you want beaters that you can get value for later on or even at time of casting. Patriarch's Bidding will never have someone naming Praetors to help you and Elesh Norn will die sooner than an Akroma due to threat perception.
I was actually talking about Urabrask and Sheoldred, not Elesh Norn >_>. Sheoldred is such a bomb and so rough to answer. It's almost answer or die. Yes, I do realize that while Akromas are 8, and Sheoldred is 7 there isn't much of a difference in mana costs, and they can be cheated out while the Praetors can't. I can certainly understand that. But about Whitekroma what is the most commonly played removal spell? Swords to Plowshares. About Redkroma sure it has the protections from that particular spell, but it isn't as versatile in combat as the white one is, unless you're against something like, say, Grand Arbiter Augustine IV, or Rafiq of the Many(the latter still has a Beast Within). Blackroma(Spirit of the Night) doesn't really have any of these redeeming qualities like the former two do, and costs one more! Just saying, sometimes you don't have access to Kaalia of the Vast, and you have to hardcast some of these. If they all cost 7+, you're less likely to get there, and if all they did was beat, or have to connect to get some effect(Dragon Mage), then you're honestly gonna be hurting. Plus, what happens when they Bribery your Akroma against you, which has protection from 2/3 of your deck(I know, poor example, as I just detailed her weakness in the opening sentence of this paragraph).
Not that I'm saying that we shouldn't play cards because of removal, but rather we know our opponent should be playing these cards, and we want to minimize the impact they can have on us. Watching an amazing 8 mana Akroma die to a single W is disheartening. Likewise, watching the other one die to 1B is disheartening as well. And all they did was beat. At least Sheoldred, Whispering One got some value on them, at least Sun Titan got something back, at the least a fetchland, or a blown up sword. At least Urabrask the Hidden slowed them the hell down. All of those mean that I don't trade 1 for 1 with your removal, because I got something else out of it. That's all I was trying to point out.
This deck is full of big creatures, it's not too much effort to keep one back or a Sunforger on reserve. Liliana can survive a long time in certain metagames too.
This is true, I just saw a game last week where a Liliana Vess ultimate went off because everyone was focused on the guy with 20 cards in and hand a Consecrated Sphinx. Personally, I cut Sunforger because it wasn't fast enough(6RW mana to start up is a lot, even if done over multiple turns). I know, this is like a blasphemous act, the card is bonkers and all, but maybe more in a midrange or control shell, or in a more traditional Commander deck.
Like, I have a Lyzolda, the Blood Witch deck that I had to cut Decree of Pain for Life's Finale, because it absolutely did not want to get to the 6BB to cast it. Not that it isn't a good card, just that it wasn't for the deck. That's the same thing as my argument against Sunforger. If that makes sense.
Thank you all for the feedback thus far, amused of all decks your forums pounce on this one and not the 4 others I've posted.
Bear in mind I make all my decks themed around the general itself, and prefer using back up mechanisms in deck to reinforce the ability. All cards for this deck are traded for, no store purchasing has been used since the completion of my Zedruu the Greathearted. I've also avoided researching EDH deck lists on this forum to see what I could come up with myself without being influenced by others.
I apologize in advance if my reply formatting is poor as I have not used this forum but as a digital archive.
--Son_of_the_Suns--
Wild Ricochet, eh? Hmm hasn't seen much opportunity as i"d like in my playgroup but I may see about adding it as a 'counter' in this deck.
-----@3drinks-------
This deck is geared towards having a valid drop for Kaalia, thus the 30x possible drop options. I'll go through the creature reasonings first:
Admonition Angel - As other have said, this works as a temporary answer at least to dealing with threats on the board.
Aegis Angel - she's amusing for protecting myself from low grade removal and general board wake [which is the biggest perk], also being on the lower mana curve hard casting is far more reasonable
Color protected beat sticks, and you are correct my Swords have all been traded away over time [especially my constantly traded SoFM for older things like Ravnica duals, Vampiric Tutor, etc].
Condemn? No problem! Also forces hesitant people to play out their tricks before entering combat. The 'Provoke' style activated ability has proven to be entertaining as well to pick off weak opponent utility creatures.
The reanimation ticks have paid off substantially for this fella. Unburial Rites + Bladewing with 2nd dragon in graveyard makes for quick post-wake recovery.
Truth be told she hasn't seen the battlefield but once in my games to date. She was originally a backup protection in Mayael EDH. For now I'd prefer keeping her over Aegis Angel as a "um, no" denial to non-exile/ -1 counter removal.
<3 this fella. Yes, he is insane in the regard that he refreshes everyone's hand. However the discard effect can also give one more reanimation targets, and also serves as a great creature refresher while doing multiple combats.
As with Mayeal, he is a color fixer. Considering ones color base is WBR, one cannot deny the utter lack of land fetching at our disposal that doesn't slow the tempo of Kaalia herself.
While Thunder Dragon & Bogardan Hellkite are grand ETB effects, this fella is phenomenal in picking off planeswalkers and critters. As we commonly play star matches, the ability to nuke your ally's permanents goes along ways towards putting them in check and securing your own victory.
Odd method of recursion, and only creature in deck with persist. Not my favorite way of dealing with board wake, but a nice insurance policy nonetheless.
I'd really prefer using a more global life gain effect. Since Kaalia is generally tapping down to deal damage as fast as she can before finding her board cleared, this helps stave off your own loss of life. I do miss my Windbrisk Raptor.
Rakdos the Defiler - honestly forgotten about this fella after leaving the standard days of Ravnica block, I'll see if I can find a copy [as I've been trading only for cards not online purchasing since my building of Zedruu]
'Swords' - as hinted above, I have traded all of them off continually for harder to find/$$ only cards [aka old lands, tutors, etc].
Urabrask the Hidden - failed to trade for a copy of this guy yet, but I did acquire a copy of Fervor which will make it's way in the deck.
Enchantment (5)
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Temporal Isolation
I would assume Temporal Isolation is a meta call, probably a voltron deck like Rafiq is in your area. But Oblivion Ring baffles me. I just don't like it as it's a temporary answer. I'd prefer Oblation here I think. Or since we're at sorcery speed, obligatory Vindicate mention is obligatory, though understandable if you don't have one. If you can get ahold of one, Sneak Attack is awesome for 1v1, again if you can afford it(I can understand, like Vindicate, the card is like $30).
Oblivion Ring - low cost answer to a multitude of things [though I do consider Seal of Cleansing if it wasn't for my obstacle of indestructible permanents in my playgroup.
Temporal Isolation - used to make Kaalia 'unblockable' for a trigger effect, and also used as an Instant answer on threats.
Coalition Relic - While Darksteel Ingot does live longer, Coalition Relic having a chance for x2 colored mana on a single turn outshines in a 3+ color deck.
Oblivion Stone - I'm not running much that can destroy Enchantments, let alone Planeswalkers or even artifacts. For a flat 8 mana wake with possibility of keeping one of my own permanents and/or 5-land locked? Come in handy too often than not.
Whispersilk Cloak - Is becoming redundant as Lightning Greaves and Swiftboots fill the roll of shroud/hexproof and Kaalia generally is assed before she gets even 0 equip on her. One of the first cards to go in next update.
The Ravnican Signets are perfect for this.
Our playgroup board wakes pretty often. I'm notorious for doing it myself. And these things are such tempting targets to destroy.
1 Diabolic Tutor- A tutor is a tutor I get that, but have you considered Praetor's Grasp?
This replaced Liliana Vess that was in the deck previously but found herself lacking people to defend her loyalty counters.
Praetor's Grasp while amusing, does not find me a creature to drop with Kaalia if in a bind.
1 Patriarch's Bidding- Do you have enough tribal support for this to ensure you always get more advantage than your opponent?
Kaalia likes seeing things die, fortunately her bloodlust pays off over others more often than not.
1 Unburial Rites- I prefer Animate Dead, as I can use Sun Titan to abuse it(and it targets any graveyard). But I can't fault you, Rites is still a very respectable card.
With further analysis of the deck [and finding a Sun Titan that isn't stuck in a deck somewhere] I might consider adding this anti-themed fella. In the meantime Unburial Rites is a 1-shot use that also causes you to lose the critter upon being destroyed.
I prefer cards that can be used more than once if at all possible, and Unburial Rites combos well with Beacon of Unrest that is already in the deck.
1 Waves of Aggression- I feel you have a lot of extra combat stuff in here. I play only Aggravated Assault and a Sword of Feast and Famine to go infinite with it, personally.
1 World at War (*)
Our playgroup isn't that fond of infinites, they tend to make group games lackluster when it's all about saving your answers to stop such sillyness. Doesn't help I also do not have a SoFM at this time
1 Wrath of God- There are so many sweepers available in the format, I feel you can do better than this. Hallowed Burial and Decree of Pain both immediately come to mind.
I wanted a low mana curve creature-wake in this deck. This also is a pretty Portal edition copy. Hallowed Burial removes my own ability to reanimate and risks tucking my own general.
1 Master Warcraft- I wonder about this. This could probably be more versatile removal, such as a Chaos Warp, or an Oblation.
1 Savage Beating- This costs a tonne, and the side thing is you won't get to untap and swing again with the fattie you just dropped(summoning sickness). It seems win-more from my perspective.
Master Warcraft hasn't seen any play, albeit the ability to swing through uncontested and also cause the 'removal' of some bothersome creatures by forced blocking is quite advantageous.
Savage Beating may be removed in favor of the other combat cards: Rebound [World at War]/ permanent [Hellkite Charger / Aggravated Assault] / Retrace [Waves of Aggression]. Keeping it to a flat 5-mana for a second combat.
Land (37)
1 Blackcleave Cliffs- How is this working out for you?
1 Lavaclaw Reaches- Likewise, how does this work out? It seems small and mana intensive, though this could be because my Kaalia blows up the lands in 1v1. Have you considered Hall of the Bandit Lord in this slot? They both EBT.
Cliffs surprisingly enters the battlefield untapped quite often, and only tapped later game when I could care less about the mana.
Lavaclaw Reaches has surprisingly won me games after a board wake to finish off an already crippled opponent.
I might consider Hall of the Bandit Lord again to go more 'Zerg' style aggression, as I think I do have a copy of that about somewhere already.
Chaos Orb / Oblation - I use in other decks. I'm quite wary of what an opponent may drop with Chaos Orb and I currently have not seen/do not have a spare copy of Oblation [as it's in Zedruu presently].
Cheer the bull, or cheer the bear; cheer both, and you will be trampled and eaten.
EDH Decklist WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url] URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url] WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url] UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url] WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url] WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
Balefire dragon and steel hellkite provide huge advantage with kaalia. Balefire is a free repeatable creature wipe, while letting you spend his would-be mana cost on something else. Steel hellkite can use the mana you just saved by bringing him in for free to destroy some permanents.
Don't be afraid to have a nice wipe like hallowed burial or akroma's vengeance. You will not always start a multiplayer game off in the lead, and these will be a life saver, resetting the game for you to take over. Actually I see you have the other wipes. Not sure why you are against hallowed burial so much. Kaalia and friends would most likely not be on the table during the need for a wipe.
I personally think you have too many creatures. All of the a/d/d's costs are huge, and if your kaalia is ever gone, you will be cringing while you look at your hand. There is just no way around that. As you play more you will probably come to this often found realization.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Aegis Angel - she's amusing for protecting myself from low grade removal and general board wake [which is the biggest perk], also being on the lower mana curve hard casting is far more reasonable
Personally, I think she's bad, because she's french vanilla. If she dies, then whatever was targeted can be killed normally. She's also pretty susceptible to clone effects. If she had Hexproof, or even just Shroud, she'd be so ****in' awesome though. I kind of view her as a trap card, like Angelic Overseer.
I just don't like them because they don't trigger when you first drop them. They're what I like to call "bombos". They look good on paper, but mechanically they don't work properly unless you untap with them.
Temporal Isolation - used to make Kaalia 'unblockable' for a trigger effect, and also used as an Instant answer on threats.
That's actually pretty crafty, I like that. For this same effect though, there's an uncommon from Exodus called Reconnaissance that can do what you're attempting here. IDK, but I do try for general damage, or just a little extra damage overall(plus, I like to stick a Sword on her and get to the red zone for the effect as well). Also, Mother of Runes does nicely to keep her 'sister' safe(and came in the Heavenly Inferno deck too).
Coalition Relic - While Darksteel Ingot does live longer, Coalition Relic having a chance for x2 colored mana on a single turn outshines in a 3+ color deck.
It doesn't help ramp into Kaalia though because it comes down on turn 3. Though fair if you do mass-wipe everything often though. This makes me think that Darksteel Ingot would be better for you, in this light though.
Oblivion Stone - I'm not running much that can destroy Enchantments, let alone Planeswalkers or even artifacts. For a flat 8 mana wake with possibility of keeping one of my own permanents and/or 5-land locked? Come in handy too often than not.
I'll give you that. I usually just beat into them myself with all of her followers, but I prefer the direct approach. >_>
Whispersilk Cloak - Is becoming redundant as Lightning Greaves and Swiftboots fill the roll of shroud/hexproof and Kaalia generally is assed before she gets even 0 equip on her. One of the first cards to go in next update.
I'd agree on cutting this. Even Champion's Helm is better(at least in mine, as I have several legendary dragons/angels/demons and a couple of Praetors as well). Darksteel Plate would be a fair upgrade here.
Our playgroup isn't that fond of infinites, they tend to make group games lackluster when it's all about saving your answers to stop such sillyness. Doesn't help I also do not have a SoFM at this time
True, but just tell them this is a three card combo(combat piece + land untapper + creature) that requires the combat phase to work. This shouldn't be a problem as there are a variety of other 3 card combos that don't even need the combat step to win. Personal preference, I suppose. It at least gives me something to reach for if the game goes late.
I wanted a low mana curve creature-wake in this deck. This also is a pretty Portal edition copy. Hallowed Burial removes my own ability to reanimate and risks tucking my own general.
I suppose. Though Burial is more effective as you can catch other generals with it, as well as indestructibles, and persisters. Obviously, you don't cast it if Kaalia is out, unless you really don't feel that you need her anymore.
Master Warcraft hasn't seen any play, albeit the ability to swing through uncontested and also cause the 'removal' of some bothersome creatures by forced blocking is quite advantageous.
I don't really think it's necessary. But to each their own.
I would play Lavaclaw Reaches(seems to be about the only decent manland in our colours) but as I am fortunate enough to have used some leftover college money, I went out and got the ABU duals for this, so I don't want tap lands if I can help it. As such, the only tap lands I have are the Hall of the Bandit Lord, Bojuka Bog, and Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
Cheer the bull, or cheer the bear; cheer both, and you will be trampled and eaten.
EDH Decklist WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url] URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url] WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url] UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url] WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url] WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
Cheer the bull, or cheer the bear; cheer both, and you will be trampled and eaten.
EDH Decklist WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url] URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url] WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url] UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url] WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url] WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
Cheer the bull, or cheer the bear; cheer both, and you will be trampled and eaten.
EDH Decklist WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url] URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url] WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url] UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url] WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url] WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
DOC – September 2011
”Many Demons travelled to the mortal realm in search of the Three Brothers. These Demons were followed to the mortal plane by Angels who hunted them throughout the vast cities of the East. The Angels allied themselves with a secretive order of mortal Magi named the Horadrim, who quickly became adept at hunting Demons. They also made many dark enemies in the underworlds.”
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creature (32)
1 Admonition Angel
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath (+)
1 Angel of Despair
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Bloodgift Demon (*)
1 Bogardan Hellkite (+)
1 Deathless Angel (*)
1 Dragon Mage
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (*)
1 Hellkite Charger (*)
1 Hellkite Tyrant (*)
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Karmic Guide
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Lord of the Void (*)
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Mother of Runes
1 Ogre Battledriver (+)
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Rune-Scarred Demon (*)
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Steel Hellkite (+)
1 Sun Titan (+)
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Aggravated Assault
1 Fervor
1 Land Tax
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Temporal Isolation
Artifact (9)
1 Coalition Relic
1 Lightning Greaves (*)
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Quicksilver Amulet (*)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
Sorcery (8)
1 Austere Command
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Praetor's Grasp (*)
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
1 Terminus
1 Unburial Rites (*)
Instant (6 )
1 Ghostway
1 Master Warcraft (*)
1 Path to Exile (+)
1 Savage Beating
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
Land (38)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blackcleave Cliffs (*)
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog (*)
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit (*)
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns (*)
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Homeward Path
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Kor Haven (*)
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plateau
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of Silence
1 Volrath's Stronghold
5 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Mountain
(*) Denotes foiled card (mostly notation for myself as I trade for them as I seem them ^_~)
(+) Promo Edition
My EDH group follows the MTG Commander website's rules.
All my deck lists are used in matches with my city's playgroup, thus metagame choices may be biased due to location. With subsequent requests & feedback I'll see to adding commentary as to the reasoning behind and strategy for using these card choices.
WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url]
URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url]
WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url]
UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks
WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url]
WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url]
WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
General
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creature (32)
1 Admonition Angel
1 Aegis Angel (*)
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Angelic Arbiter
1 Basandra, Battle Seraph
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Deathless Angel (*)
1 Dragon Mage
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Flameblast Dragon (*)
1 Hellkite Charger (*)
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Twilight Shepherd
1 Victory's Herald (*)
I think a lot of these guys are bad because they don't do anything noteworthy except turn sideways. Two Akromas and Blackroma are the biggest offenders here. Cost a million mana and don't bring anything to the table except damage. Hoard-Smelter Dragon is an exception, he's not like an all-star or anything, but I can respect his inclusion. Notable "bombos" I see are Victory's Herald, Flameblast Dragon and Hellkite Charger, as they don't trigger when Kaalia drops them because they trigger on declare attackers, and Kaalia triggers after that step. Also, no Rakdos the Defiler for the blowout combo? (Just like the former three, Rakdos comes in off of Kaalia and misses his declare trigger, then hits them and they sac half their cards).
Scourge of Kher Ridges I guess is okay. I like Thunder Dragon for that purpose more(you can find him in Knights vs Dragons in case you don't have his copy from Starters or the FTV: Dragons). Bladewing the Risen there's nothing really wrong with him, though I cut him because I don't have as much support for him. I do like Bogardan Hellkite more though.
Eternal Dragon seems like he should be here, but I've actually cut him from my list because he's just slow. And I generally have better things to do with my mana than than regrow this guy. Yes, I do know that he finds dual lands, but I feel like we can do better here. I put Solemn Simulacrum here as well as he directly competes with when we want to drop Kaalia. If Kaalia swings, we seldom even need any more lands so this guy doesn't do anything to further our game plan. I cut him a couple of months ago and I haven't looked back.
I think Admonition Angel is just like Oblivion Ring, and as such is why I would cut it here too. Except Angel is a creature, and thus more fragile than O-Ring. Angelic Arbiter doesn't seem to do much other than piss people off.
I run a few select non-compatible targets in my own Kaalia(link in sig) guys like Mother of Runes, Urabrask the Hidden(global haste is awesome), and Sheoldred, Whispering One because I put a heavier emphasis on recursion. I also have Sun Titan in my list as well.
Enchantment (5)
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Temporal Isolation
I would assume Temporal Isolation is a meta call, probably a voltron deck like Rafiq is in your area. But Oblivion Ring baffles me. I just don't like it as it's a temporary answer. I'd prefer Oblation here I think. Or since we're at sorcery speed, obligatory Vindicate mention is obligatory, though understandable if you don't have one. If you can get ahold of one, Sneak Attack is awesome for 1v1, again if you can afford it(I can understand, like Vindicate, the card is like $30).
Artifact (9)
1 Coalition Relic
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Whispersilk Cloak (*)
I think you need more artifact mana, which will help you turn 3, or sometimes turn 2 Kaalia which is pretty nuts. Obligatory mention of Swords but as they aren't in your list, I can only assume you just don't have them. I would recommend SoFaI, SoFaF, and SoLaS. If you do a lot of multiplayer, I would recommend SoWaP as well. Personally I think O-Stone is bad, though as I said, I play more artifact mana, and swords so yours may very well be different.
Also, try to use rocks that are 2 or less, as the 3 drop ones like Coalition Relic, don't actually accelerate you into an early Kaalia. The Ravnican Signets are perfect for this.
1 Diabolic Tutor- A tutor is a tutor I get that, but have you considered Praetor's Grasp?
1 Patriarch's Bidding- Do you have enough tribal support for this to ensure you always get more advantage than your opponent?
1 Unburial Rites- I prefer Animate Dead, as I can use Sun Titan to abuse it(and it targets any graveyard). But I can't fault you, Rites is still a very respectable card.
1 Waves of Aggression- I feel you have a lot of extra combat stuff in here. I play only Aggravated Assault and a Sword of Feast and Famine to go infinite with it, personally.
1 World at War (*)
1 Wrath of God- There are so many sweepers available in the format, I feel you can do better than this. Hallowed Burial and Decree of Pain both immediately come to mind.
Instant (6)
1 Master Warcraft- I wonder about this. This could probably be more versatile removal, such as a Chaos Warp, or an Oblation.
1 Savage Beating- This costs a tonne, and the side thing is you won't get to untap and swing again with the fattie you just dropped(summoning sickness). It seems win-more from my perspective.
Land (37)
1 Blackcleave Cliffs- How is this working out for you?
1 Lavaclaw Reaches- Likewise, how does this work out? It seems small and mana intensive, though this could be because my Kaalia blows up the lands in 1v1. Have you considered Hall of the Bandit Lord in this slot? They both EBT.
I absolutely <3 talking about Kaalia(I could go on for hours haha), and hopefully my questions are thought-provoking enough for you as well! Let me know!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Eternal Dragon like wise operates as fixing when it is needed, the option is why it should be run, not to mention another target for Bladewing the Risen, who has always been fantastic for me.
Both Akromas aren't bad either, but of the two, the red one is preferable as the prot. colours hit a lot more things (including path and swords).
The rest of your recommendations I agree with. Liliana Vess should also be here if you can get one.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I don't know why people say this about Black, the colour is second in card draw to Blue. Phyrexian Arena, Arena Demon, and some amazing huge draw spells in Promise of Power and Moonlight Bargain. I just don't see a reason to give my opponents a draw7 if I don't need to. I would even play Memory Jar before the Dragon.
Fair point on Bladewing the Risen, I don't have as many dragons, though I run a couple of Praetors and other stuff so it isn't as good. Still say Bogardan Hellkite has a place here.
It's because they don't do anything except beatdown. I guess it's needed if he doesn't have the extra added oomph from swords/protection from swords like I have, but they're still sub-optimal.
I feel the PWers are just not worth the effort in multiplayer. Liliana Vess will commonly end up being a 5 mana Cruel Tutor. :\ If he can protect them, or his metagame just doesn't gun for them, I guess they're worth it. But it just doesn't seem to be worth the loss.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Dragon Mage is a beater and card draw, honestly, I've found I often hurt them by cycling their hands as much as by helping. It is a very versatile card. Black is a good colour for card draw, but in an aggro deck (at least in this and typical Kaalia builds) you don't want to overload on draw spells and combine them when possible with creatures. Wheel of Fortune is likewise a great spell for this deck that does draw cards for opponents, but whats more is it restocks our hand, which Kaalia needs.
I would run Bogardan Hellkite over the poor angels etc you listed, no reason not to run both. The akromas are not sub-optimal cards, they are very aggresively costed when it comes down to it, and I would rathe run them due to their difficulty to kill without sweepers than something that I would always have to hard cast. The two praetors you favour (red and white) are okay, but in a deck like this you want beaters that you can get value for later on or even at time of casting. Patriarch's Bidding will never have someone naming Praetors to help you and Elesh Norn will die sooner than an Akroma due to threat perception.
This deck is full of big creatures, it's not too much effort to keep one back or a Sunforger on reserve. Liliana can survive a long time in certain metagames too.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I suppose. Maybe I've spoiled myself with my Promise and Arena, I just can't imagine a black deck without them. They provide soooooo much gas.
I was actually talking about Urabrask and Sheoldred, not Elesh Norn >_>. Sheoldred is such a bomb and so rough to answer. It's almost answer or die. Yes, I do realize that while Akromas are 8, and Sheoldred is 7 there isn't much of a difference in mana costs, and they can be cheated out while the Praetors can't. I can certainly understand that. But about Whitekroma what is the most commonly played removal spell? Swords to Plowshares. About Redkroma sure it has the protections from that particular spell, but it isn't as versatile in combat as the white one is, unless you're against something like, say, Grand Arbiter Augustine IV, or Rafiq of the Many(the latter still has a Beast Within). Blackroma(Spirit of the Night) doesn't really have any of these redeeming qualities like the former two do, and costs one more! Just saying, sometimes you don't have access to Kaalia of the Vast, and you have to hardcast some of these. If they all cost 7+, you're less likely to get there, and if all they did was beat, or have to connect to get some effect(Dragon Mage), then you're honestly gonna be hurting. Plus, what happens when they Bribery your Akroma against you, which has protection from 2/3 of your deck(I know, poor example, as I just detailed her weakness in the opening sentence of this paragraph).
Not that I'm saying that we shouldn't play cards because of removal, but rather we know our opponent should be playing these cards, and we want to minimize the impact they can have on us. Watching an amazing 8 mana Akroma die to a single W is disheartening. Likewise, watching the other one die to 1B is disheartening as well. And all they did was beat. At least Sheoldred, Whispering One got some value on them, at least Sun Titan got something back, at the least a fetchland, or a blown up sword. At least Urabrask the Hidden slowed them the hell down. All of those mean that I don't trade 1 for 1 with your removal, because I got something else out of it. That's all I was trying to point out.
This is true, I just saw a game last week where a Liliana Vess ultimate went off because everyone was focused on the guy with 20 cards in and hand a Consecrated Sphinx. Personally, I cut Sunforger because it wasn't fast enough(6RW mana to start up is a lot, even if done over multiple turns). I know, this is like a blasphemous act, the card is bonkers and all, but maybe more in a midrange or control shell, or in a more traditional Commander deck.
Like, I have a Lyzolda, the Blood Witch deck that I had to cut Decree of Pain for Life's Finale, because it absolutely did not want to get to the 6BB to cast it. Not that it isn't a good card, just that it wasn't for the deck. That's the same thing as my argument against Sunforger. If that makes sense.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Bear in mind I make all my decks themed around the general itself, and prefer using back up mechanisms in deck to reinforce the ability. All cards for this deck are traded for, no store purchasing has been used since the completion of my Zedruu the Greathearted. I've also avoided researching EDH deck lists on this forum to see what I could come up with myself without being influenced by others.
I apologize in advance if my reply formatting is poor as I have not used this forum but as a digital archive.
--Son_of_the_Suns--
Wild Ricochet, eh? Hmm hasn't seen much opportunity as i"d like in my playgroup but I may see about adding it as a 'counter' in this deck.
-----@3drinks-------
This deck is geared towards having a valid drop for Kaalia, thus the 30x possible drop options. I'll go through the creature reasonings first:
Admonition Angel - As other have said, this works as a temporary answer at least to dealing with threats on the board.
Aegis Angel - she's amusing for protecting myself from low grade removal and general board wake [which is the biggest perk], also being on the lower mana curve hard casting is far more reasonable
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Color protected beat sticks, and you are correct my Swords have all been traded away over time [especially my constantly traded SoFM for older things like Ravnica duals, Vampiric Tutor, etc].
Angelic Arbiter
Honestly she isn't doing all that grand imo. She'll likely be removed in the near future due to her low damage output and subpar lockdown ability.
Basandra, Battle Seraph
Condemn? No problem! Also forces hesitant people to play out their tricks before entering combat. The 'Provoke' style activated ability has proven to be entertaining as well to pick off weak opponent utility creatures.
Bladewing the Risen
The reanimation ticks have paid off substantially for this fella. Unburial Rites + Bladewing with 2nd dragon in graveyard makes for quick post-wake recovery.
Deathless Angel
Truth be told she hasn't seen the battlefield but once in my games to date. She was originally a backup protection in Mayael EDH. For now I'd prefer keeping her over Aegis Angel as a "um, no" denial to non-exile/ -1 counter removal.
Dragon Mage
<3 this fella. Yes, he is insane in the regard that he refreshes everyone's hand. However the discard effect can also give one more reanimation targets, and also serves as a great creature refresher while doing multiple combats.
Eternal Dragon
As with Mayeal, he is a color fixer. Considering ones color base is WBR, one cannot deny the utter lack of land fetching at our disposal that doesn't slow the tempo of Kaalia herself.
Flameblast Dragon
While Thunder Dragon & Bogardan Hellkite are grand ETB effects, this fella is phenomenal in picking off planeswalkers and critters. As we commonly play star matches, the ability to nuke your ally's permanents goes along ways towards putting them in check and securing your own victory.
Hellkite Charger
Aggravated Assault in creature form, enough said.
Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Artifact removal in creature form, thus "on a stick" [reusable].
Scourge of Kher Ridges
While ETB creature burning is grand, having it "on a stick" is so much more potent.
Solemn Simulacrum
You said you use this yourself, no? Puts a land directly into play available in WBR color restraints...thank you!
Spirit of the Night
Beautiful artwork, most generic of the "beaters" and amusingly errata to a Demon form. Very likely one of the first to be replaced.
Twilight Shepherd
Odd method of recursion, and only creature in deck with persist. Not my favorite way of dealing with board wake, but a nice insurance policy nonetheless.
Victory's Herald
I'd really prefer using a more global life gain effect. Since Kaalia is generally tapping down to deal damage as fast as she can before finding her board cleared, this helps stave off your own loss of life. I do miss my Windbrisk Raptor.
Rakdos the Defiler - honestly forgotten about this fella after leaving the standard days of Ravnica block, I'll see if I can find a copy [as I've been trading only for cards not online purchasing since my building of Zedruu]
'Swords' - as hinted above, I have traded all of them off continually for harder to find/$$ only cards [aka old lands, tutors, etc].
Urabrask the Hidden - failed to trade for a copy of this guy yet, but I did acquire a copy of Fervor which will make it's way in the deck.
Sheoldred, Whispering One < Debtor's Knell : albeit I do not have a second copy of either available not in other decks for now.
Oblivion Ring - low cost answer to a multitude of things [though I do consider Seal of Cleansing if it wasn't for my obstacle of indestructible permanents in my playgroup.
Temporal Isolation - used to make Kaalia 'unblockable' for a trigger effect, and also used as an Instant answer on threats.
Coalition Relic - While Darksteel Ingot does live longer, Coalition Relic having a chance for x2 colored mana on a single turn outshines in a 3+ color deck.
Oblivion Stone - I'm not running much that can destroy Enchantments, let alone Planeswalkers or even artifacts. For a flat 8 mana wake with possibility of keeping one of my own permanents and/or 5-land locked? Come in handy too often than not.
Whispersilk Cloak - Is becoming redundant as Lightning Greaves and Swiftboots fill the roll of shroud/hexproof and Kaalia generally is assed before she gets even 0 equip on her. One of the first cards to go in next update.
Our playgroup board wakes pretty often. I'm notorious for doing it myself. And these things are such tempting targets to destroy.
This replaced Liliana Vess that was in the deck previously but found herself lacking people to defend her loyalty counters.
Praetor's Grasp while amusing, does not find me a creature to drop with Kaalia if in a bind.
Kaalia likes seeing things die, fortunately her bloodlust pays off over others more often than not.
With further analysis of the deck [and finding a Sun Titan that isn't stuck in a deck somewhere] I might consider adding this anti-themed fella. In the meantime Unburial Rites is a 1-shot use that also causes you to lose the critter upon being destroyed.
I prefer cards that can be used more than once if at all possible, and Unburial Rites combos well with Beacon of Unrest that is already in the deck.
Our playgroup isn't that fond of infinites, they tend to make group games lackluster when it's all about saving your answers to stop such sillyness. Doesn't help I also do not have a SoFM at this time
I wanted a low mana curve creature-wake in this deck. This also is a pretty Portal edition copy. Hallowed Burial removes my own ability to reanimate and risks tucking my own general.
Master Warcraft hasn't seen any play, albeit the ability to swing through uncontested and also cause the 'removal' of some bothersome creatures by forced blocking is quite advantageous.
Savage Beating may be removed in favor of the other combat cards: Rebound [World at War]/ permanent [Hellkite Charger / Aggravated Assault] / Retrace [Waves of Aggression]. Keeping it to a flat 5-mana for a second combat.
Cliffs surprisingly enters the battlefield untapped quite often, and only tapped later game when I could care less about the mana.
Lavaclaw Reaches has surprisingly won me games after a board wake to finish off an already crippled opponent.
I might consider Hall of the Bandit Lord again to go more 'Zerg' style aggression, as I think I do have a copy of that about somewhere already.
Chaos Orb / Oblation - I use in other decks. I'm quite wary of what an opponent may drop with Chaos Orb and I currently have not seen/do not have a spare copy of Oblation [as it's in Zedruu presently].
WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url]
URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url]
WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url]
UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks
WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url]
WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url]
WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
Don't be afraid to have a nice wipe like hallowed burial or akroma's vengeance. You will not always start a multiplayer game off in the lead, and these will be a life saver, resetting the game for you to take over. Actually I see you have the other wipes. Not sure why you are against hallowed burial so much. Kaalia and friends would most likely not be on the table during the need for a wipe.
I personally think you have too many creatures. All of the a/d/d's costs are huge, and if your kaalia is ever gone, you will be cringing while you look at your hand. There is just no way around that. As you play more you will probably come to this often found realization.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Personally, I think she's bad, because she's french vanilla. If she dies, then whatever was targeted can be killed normally. She's also pretty susceptible to clone effects. If she had Hexproof, or even just Shroud, she'd be so ****in' awesome though. I kind of view her as a trap card, like Angelic Overseer.
I just don't like them because they don't trigger when you first drop them. They're what I like to call "bombos". They look good on paper, but mechanically they don't work properly unless you untap with them.
I really want to find one of these guys. He seems really solid.
Well, I mention I used to, but I did cut him as he interferes directly with my deck's plan of operation. He's just a speed bump for Kaalia.
That's actually pretty crafty, I like that. For this same effect though, there's an uncommon from Exodus called Reconnaissance that can do what you're attempting here. IDK, but I do try for general damage, or just a little extra damage overall(plus, I like to stick a Sword on her and get to the red zone for the effect as well). Also, Mother of Runes does nicely to keep her 'sister' safe(and came in the Heavenly Inferno deck too).
It doesn't help ramp into Kaalia though because it comes down on turn 3. Though fair if you do mass-wipe everything often though. This makes me think that Darksteel Ingot would be better for you, in this light though.
I'll give you that. I usually just beat into them myself with all of her followers, but I prefer the direct approach. >_>
I'd agree on cutting this. Even Champion's Helm is better(at least in mine, as I have several legendary dragons/angels/demons and a couple of Praetors as well). Darksteel Plate would be a fair upgrade here.
What if you don't need to grab a dude? You grab one of their answer cards, or even something silly like a Privileged Position(true story, did that once to an Uril, the Miststalker deck). Then proceeded to Yosei lock him via sword of light and shadow and a phyrexian tower.)
How does Rites "combo" with Beacon?
True, but just tell them this is a three card combo(combat piece + land untapper + creature) that requires the combat phase to work. This shouldn't be a problem as there are a variety of other 3 card combos that don't even need the combat step to win. Personal preference, I suppose. It at least gives me something to reach for if the game goes late.
I suppose. Though Burial is more effective as you can catch other generals with it, as well as indestructibles, and persisters. Obviously, you don't cast it if Kaalia is out, unless you really don't feel that you need her anymore.
I don't really think it's necessary. But to each their own.
I would play Lavaclaw Reaches(seems to be about the only decent manland in our colours) but as I am fortunate enough to have used some leftover college money, I went out and got the ABU duals for this, so I don't want tap lands if I can help it. As such, the only tap lands I have are the Hall of the Bandit Lord, Bojuka Bog, and Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1 Aegis Angel (-)
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury (-)
1 Angelic Arbiter (-)
1 Spirit of the Night (-)
1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (-)
1 Twilight Shepherd (-)
1 Victory's Herald (-)
1 Bogardan Hellkite (+)
1 Platinum Angel (+)
1 Rakdos the Defiler (+)
1 Sun Titan (+)
1 Thunder Dragon (+)
1 Oblivion Ring (-)
1 Debtor's Knell (+)
1 Fervor (+)
1 Necromancy (+)
Artifact
1 Whispersilk Cloak (-)
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (+)
Sorcery
1 Diabolic Tutor (-)
1 Living Death (-)
1 Patriarch's Bidding (-)
1 World at War (-)
1 Wrath of God (-)
1 Increasing Ambition (+)
1 Praetor’s Grasp (+)
Instant
1 Word of Seizing (+)
Land
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord (+)
WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url]
URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url]
WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url]
UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks
WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url]
WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url]
WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1 Basandra, Battle Seraph (-)
1 Bladewing the Risen (-)
1 Flameblast Dragon (-)
1 Thunder Dragon (-)
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope (+)
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (+)
1 Thundermaw Hellkite (+)
1 Utvara Hellkite (+)
1 Debtor's Knell (-)
Sorcery
1 Waves of Aggression (-)
1 Living Death (+)
Instant
1 Word of Seizing (-)
WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url]
URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url]
WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url]
UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks
WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url]
WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url]
WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]
1 Adarkar Valkyrie (-)
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon (-)
1 Platinum Angel (-)
1 Hellkite Tyrant (+)
1 Lord of the Void (+)
1 Master of Cruelties (+)
1 Ogre Battledriver (+)
1 Pithing Needle (-)
1 Wayfarer's Bauble (+)
Sorcery
1 Akroma's Vengeance (-)
1 Increasing Ambition (-)
1 Living Death (-)
1 Red Sun's Zenith (+)
1 Rise of the Dark Realms (+)
1 Terminus (+)
1 Enlightened Tutor (-)
Land
1 Plains (-)
1 Temple of Silence (+)
WUB [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665451#post6665451
]Sen Triplets[/url]
URG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744424#post7744424
]Riku of Two Reflections[/url]
WBR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7744674#post7744674
]Kaalia of the Vast[/url]
UG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9730251#post9730251
]Momir Vig, Simic Visionary[/url]
Retired Decks
WRG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6665457#post6665457
]Mayael the Anima[/url]
WUR [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7059643#post7059643
]Zedruu the Greathearted[/url]
WBG [url= http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8008381#post8008381]Ghave, Guru of Spores[/url]