Add Phyrexian Devourer. If you can manage to Buried Alive Phyrexian Devourer, Triskelion, and Necrotic Ooze the game is a complete blowout. Recur the Ooze and then use the activated abilities of the other 2 to exile the top card of your deck for + counters and then remove them to damage someone over and over. Not an infinite combo either so it gets bonus points.
Add Phyrexian Devourer. If you can manage to Buried Alive Phyrexian Devourer, Triskelion, and Necrotic Ooze the game is a complete blowout. Recur the Ooze and then use the activated abilities of the other 2 to exile the top card of your deck for + counters and then remove them to damage someone over and over. Not an infinite combo either so it gets bonus points.
I'm a bit confused. How does that work if Triskelion chucks +1/+1 counters for damage and the Devourer ability will likely give itself a bigger counter (since Triskelion's ability specifically reads that you remove a +1/+1 counter, and not just any counter, and Devourer gets a +X/+X based on CMC)?
Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply combine Triskelion with something really huge (like say, Lord of Extinction)?
If you read the oracle text, if says that it gets X +1/+1 counters not a +X/+X counter on it like the card text states, making it great with the other cards mentioned. Lord of Extinction is also good, though.
Assuming that you got the Mimeoplasm-precon, why did you cut Mortivore? The * on cards like Mortivore and Lord of Extinction are equal to the number of (creature in the case of morty) cards in all graveyards even when they are in the graveyard themselves, so they are large bodies to consume with Mimeoplasm. I think you'd want more of those, not less.
Two (cheap) card suggestions:
-Mindless Automaton: this card does everything the deck needs. It lets you drop overpriced crap from your hand, it draws you cards, and it gives you an ability that makes good use of all the counters on the Mimeoplasm.
-Splinterfright: nice new card, decent size for the Mimeoplasm plus it's mill effect lets you put stuff in the yard.
Assuming that you got the Mimeoplasm-precon, why did you cut Mortivore? The * on cards like Mortivore and Lord of Extinction are equal to the number of (creature in the case of morty) cards in all graveyards even when they are in the graveyard themselves, so they are large bodies to consume with Mimeoplasm. I think you'd want more of those, not less.
Good question, actually. See, the current idea here is for all the creatures in the deck to be threats by themselves with or without being copied by ole Mimeo (with the exception of LoE of course, but he gets colossal). Still, I should probably do some playtesting with Mortivore back in since from the recent games I actually tend to lack big buffs for him.
Two (cheap) card suggestions:
-Mindless Automaton: this card does everything the deck needs. It lets you drop overpriced crap from your hand, it draws you cards, and it gives you an ability that makes good use of all the counters on the Mimeoplasm.
-Splinterfright: nice new card, decent size for the Mimeoplasm plus it's mill effect lets you put stuff in the yard.
Which brings me to my next question: People have been suggesting some mass-discard stuff like Mirror-Mad Phantasm and Tunnel Vision. Are those suggestions sound? I'm under the impression that while I'd want to fill my GY up quickly I don't want to dump huge chunks of my deck since I still want some gas in my hand.
People have been suggesting some mass-discard stuff like Mirror-Mad Phantasm and Tunnel Vision. Are those suggestions sound? I'm under the impression that while I'd want to fill my GY up quickly I don't want to dump huge chunks of my deck since I still want some gas in my hand.
It depends on the playgroup I guess. Personally I wouldn't inflict too much discard on other players, but it depends on what you call fun. Generally speaking I wouldn't play cards that only targets a single player or only makes yourself discard (or mill) cards, as these lead to "win more" situations instead of creating an advantageous board position.
There's some value in Smallpox (or even Pox, depending on the deck) for sure though. You only have room for 99 cards, so every card has to count. If you want to make sure a card like Tunnel Vision or Traumatize gives you the win, you have to use it on yourself (because you can't always count on your opponent to have the right creatures to eat). As I doubt you can cast that card and the Mimeoplasm in the same turn, you're opening yourself to graveyard hate. So I'd prefer something that has either a continuous effect or strengthens your board position. Splinterfright fits here, Tunnel Vision, well, not so much. For a similar effect you might better look at Mindcrank or Mesmeric Orb.
Still, I should probably do some playtesting with Mortivore back in since from the recent games I actually tend to lack big buffs for him.
If Mortivore isn't larger than his mana cost, something is wrong. Mortivore lacks evasion (solution: add Brawn, Wonder, Filth, two of which you already have), so that's why a lot of people consider it sub-par. LoE is just plain better, although regeneration can be more than decent. In a four player game, Mortivore should easily be over size 10, so in that regard it's the ideal buff for Mimeoplasm's size. Even if you're not eating it, it's a big ass regenerating blocker.
By the way, if you're running Necrotic Ooze, you might consider Doomed Necromancer. If you have rocket shoes in play it's good on it's own, but with Necrotic Ooze you can loop sacrifices for as much mana as you have. That's a good lock with Grave Pact.
Which brings me to my next question: People have been suggesting some mass-discard stuff like Mirror-Mad Phantasm and Tunnel Vision. Are those suggestions sound? I'm under the impression that while I'd want to fill my GY up quickly I don't want to dump huge chunks of my deck since I still want some gas in my hand.
I shifted my build away from mass mill because it left me too vulnerable. Putting all my eggs in 1 basket so to speak. The better idea is to throw some effects that pitch stuff to the grave and give you cards in hand like Fact or Fiction or Forbidden Alchemy. That way if your grave gets hit (it will) then you have a backup plan.
Okay, after a couple of games I'm starting to see what this deck really needs: resilience.
As it is, the deck's looking at least a bit good -- and that's the problem. Since everyone in the playgroup knows (from the 1v1 playtests) that I'm capable of KOing someone within a single turn once I've amassed enough mana for it (as one friend put it: "Those one-turn Infect kills outta nowhere"), I'm either eliminated early or locked down for most of the game.
So far the only card I've put in to help this out is Platinum Emperion but I'm looking for other suggestions. Or is it simply a matter of playstyle wherein I have to 1) learn to be better at politicking with the other players and 2) look like less of a threat on the board (i.e. not playing any praetors unless it's a sure win)?
Okay, after a couple of games I'm starting to see what this deck really needs: resilience.
As it is, the deck's looking at least a bit good -- and that's the problem. Since everyone in the playgroup knows (from the 1v1 playtests) that I'm capable of KOing someone within a single turn once I've amassed enough mana for it (as one friend put it: "Those one-turn Infect kills outta nowhere"), I'm either eliminated early or locked down for most of the game.
So far the only card I've put in to help this out is Platinum Emperion but I'm looking for other suggestions. Or is it simply a matter of playstyle wherein I have to 1) learn to be better at politicking with the other players and 2) look like less of a threat on the board (i.e. not playing any praetors unless it's a sure win)?
You can take it in two directions: make the deck more competitive, or less. If you attract less attention and focus on making the game "more fun", you can get very far. Given that you play 1v1 commander I'm not sure if that's the way for you though. If you don't understand what I mean, I suggest you read this. It's an arms race, and backing off is a viable option. If you need to spice the deck up, perhaps it's time to add some counterspells. You are playing blue after all...
Anyway, I figured out another card to put in the deck: Deathrender. It's a nice way to cheat fat from your hand into play.
I'm thinking that I could actually drop the praetors for friendlier creatures when playing casual with folks outside of my regular playgroup. After a few practice games with a stranger I noticed that just having any one of those three is pretty NPE, as well as any of those instant-win combos (i.e. Skittles or Putrefax pumped high enough to break the 10-poison-counter threshold instantly).
Aaand there's also the concern of tweaking it to implement the French ban list for tourney play but that's a whole different beast.
Slots are getting tighter, though I think the deck's pretty close to done (as far as major upgrades are concerned anyway)! Any suggestions on what goes out for Survival of the Fittest?
(Instead of posting the decklist over and over I've just been editing that last post to save space here.)
If you're happy with the cards you run now, I'd swap survival with buried alive. These cards do similar things. Otherwise I'd take out one of the cards you're less happy with. The signets seem less than stellar. Put survival in place of one, another land in place of the second and LftL in place of the third.
If you're happy with the cards you run now, I'd swap survival with buried alive. These cards do similar things.
The Buried Alive is staying precisely for that reason, funnily enough. From the games I've played I've learned that redundancy is the order of the day in a singletons format. Although...
Otherwise I'd take out one of the cards you're less happy with. The signets seem less than stellar. Put survival in place of one, another land in place of the second and LftL in place of the third.
This is a very valid point. While the signets haven't really failed me so far in terms of mana production, I figure they're eventually getting cut out once I get some good replacements (i.e. Innistrad dual lands like Woodland Cemetery or Hinterland harbor). Then once that happens maybe I can afford to cut a few of the other lands (maybe some of the basics) for some power cards like the aforementioned Survival as well as Tooth and Nail.
The Buried Alive is staying precisely for that reason, funnily enough. From the games I've played I've learned that redundancy is the order of the day in a singletons format. Although...
It was an "if", not a "when" But without your own analysis what you like and don't like about the deck (on second thought, you did write you wanted more resilience) it's pretty difficult to suggest what to cut. Buried alive is a strong tutor in this deck, so in that regard you'd be insane to cut it. However, it doesn't immediately affect board position, so if (for example) you'd be facing a lot of aggro it might be a card worth cutting.
There's another consideration: randomness. With enough tutors you can make the deck resilient. That's a good thing, but it's not really the nature of EDH. It's something you and your playgroup have to figure out, but randomness leads to different games every time you play (and because you're unable to come up with the right answer at the right time: likely shorter games). For example: running Stinkweed Imp instead of Buried Alive. Think about it, it's not as dumb as it seems
If it's resilience you're looking for, maybe adding the pimp in addition to Buried Alive and Survival isn't a bad idea. What kind of resilience are you looking for? Because this can mean you're: not running enough ramp/tutors/aggro hosers/card draw, or too many of those. From just looking at your decklist I have the feeling you are running too many different Mimeo-food. Especially if you're running more tutors you might consider running less "mimeoplasm targets" and more solid creatures.
Ancestral Memories is a more expensive Forbidden Alchemy-like sorcery speed spell but lets u dig harder into your library.
That's a solid suggestion! I prefer raw card drawing over tutoring (see above... but card draw improves resilience obviously!), and card draw that dumps something in the yard (like Careful Study) is very solid in this deck.
About those signets: they get blown up a lot. There are disks sweeping the board every other turn, and even if your opponent has a spare KGrip you might even randomly get hosed. Putting lands into play is a lot better than those. I really like my suggestion of running some dredge plus LftL, but if you don't have a Loam I can see that it might not be a card you want to pick up. You'd be guaranteed of a land drop though, and that could fix your mana base for less money than the cards you're considering for your mana base. Hermit Druid would be stellar in such a deck. Or you could replace the signets with stuff like Wood Elves (if you have duals) or Farhaven Elf (if you don't have them).
Gaea's Revenge is the go-to card in my deck. It has built in Lightning Greaves basically. Tutoring up a Gaea's Revenge, Krosan Cloudscraper and Wonder is really easy.
If this isn't budget anymore please please please add an Intuition!
Well, looks like it's time to start reconsidering the build.
The original concept my friends and I had with this deck was to shy away from the typical Mimeo build of "half your creatures have cool abilities, the other half simply have high stats and are purely there to pump your Mimeo up massively" by making each and every creature in the deck a potential threat whether they're being copied or hardcast. I also decided to shy away from the usual Mimeo trend of tossing in mass self-mill (i.e. Tunnel Vision, Hermit Druid) under the assumption that I'd rather have business in-hand at all times instead of dumping huge chunks of the deck into the GY.
So far it's actually served me well actually, and I was pretty happy with the deck's performance...until I went up against Draw-Go decks on Cockatrice, that is.
See, the deck's pretty much got a single strategy: ramp, go for something big (whether you're hardcasting a powerful creature, setting up a one-turn kill from Mimeo or going for a huge game-winning spell like Tooth and Nail). Thus it's proven to be easily hosed by heavy counterspells or just disruption in general. More often than not once I've set up a wincon, it just gets fizzled.
Any suggestions on how to better equip my Mimeo to deal with such decks? I'm open to the possibility that instead of just altering the current build I might have to rebuild from scratch.
Well, do you really need to tune the deck for duels? In multiplayer you could always get your other opponents to gang up on the evil control player The other route is imo the Hermit Druid route, where you're going to grind the opponent down with an endless stream of threats from your graveyard. I'm mainly thinking of Wurm Harvest-tokens here.
So after getting tons of playtesting (both multiplayer and dueling) done this weekend, a friend gave me a really interesting suggestion. He's noted that my deck's essentially a combo deck that lacks means to actually protect its combos (i.e. I fire off Buried Alive then Mimeo, the Mimeo gets tucked/bounced/countered). He's suggested that I put some countermagic into the deck to work around that, and lessen my "win more" cards -- especially the creatures, since I have to remember that I can yoink stuff from other GYs as well instead of taking up my own deck space with Mimeo combo pieces.
I think the manabase needs an overhaul. Am I cutting too many basic lands for my "search for basic land" effects to be too useful? Do I still have enough high-CMC cards in here to make the Nectoritic Ooze/Devourer/Triskelion combo worthwhile (in this deck's last incarnation with higher CMC's all around I managed to win a five-man came with just that combo)? Am I right to consider cutting the Panoramas out altogther since I've got more versatile nonbasic lands that won'd have me waste 1 mana fetching something that'll come into play tapped?
Also worth noting would be other options I was told for the deck build. Instead of counters I could supposedly increase the number of board wipes (i.e. Decree of Pain, Pernicious Deed, Nevinyrral's Disk to routinely provide fuel for my GY shenanigans. Full-on reanimator is another option (and I should have the cards for that anyway thanks to Graveborn) that I've considered but haven't really fleshed out. Another is to simply add more combos in the deck (i.e. Palinchron + Minion Reflector to fuel some infinite mana win con like Oona, Queen of the Fae or Ambassador Laquatus) to basically ensure that I draw at least one combo to win the game with. Then there's always the mass self-discard route with stuff like Hermit Druid though a lot of the folks I've talked to disagree with that since you're getting rid of potential gas in-hand. Would any of you also agree that any mana-demanding EDH deck with black in it practically needs Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
As before I'm leaving a link to the 'tourney' version of the deck just for reference since this version of the deck's the one linked in my sig. I'll work on updating the French Ban version of this deck once I'm sure of the 'normal' one's build though.
I would suggest starting at my build of Mimeo for some basic counter/control elements, and I'll give a brief rundown of my philosophy here:
Everyone expects you to combo out/self-mill with Mimeoplasm. Go for it, I say, do what you want [and I'll run highlander reanimator >_>]. However, you will always need countermagic. I'd like to start with a few basics:
Last Word, Dissipate, and Voidslime are your three best bets. Last Word ends things, Dissipate exiles things, and Voidslime is your go to counter for anything. I'm testing Undermine right now, and you really can't go wrong with things like Pact of Negation or Counterspell.
Situationally, I'd run Trickbind over Stifle due to the Split Second, and possibly Voidmage Husher if you run into crazy amounts of Activated/Triggered Abilities. Husher also works great for use as a flash in chump.
I'd steer clear of expensive counters and Cryptic Command. I find the triple blue difficult to muster/keep open as I often have creatures (Teferi, Magus of the Future) that require the triple blue to use. Cryptic Command has a place, and its not in a Mimeoplasm deck, unless your color fixing is fantastic.
I'll edit this post when I find the thread I'm looking for, but at one point there was a thread of compiled counters that were awesome in EDH. When I find it, you'll know! EDIT: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=285800&highlight=countermagic Is probably closest to what I was looking for. Someone probably has the link I'm looking for bookmarked.
Hmm. When the "put in a counter suite to get your combos off" build was suggested to me, I was told that I'll want stuff that's 1U over stuff with UU costs so that it's less taxing on the mana base. Counters like Arcane Denial or Memory Lapse for one, or just cheaper casting stuff overall like good ole Counterspell itself.
Still, I'll have to test the build with the 'bigger' counters that you've suggested. I'm pretty sure Spell Crumple is just that good since you can tuck a commander, and Voidslime looks like it can solve a lot of my problems. Last Word is really expensive mana-wise for my tastes but how's it performed so far in your deck?
Hmm. When the "put in a counter suite to get your combos off" build was suggested to me, I was told that I'll want stuff that's 1U over stuff with UU costs so that it's less taxing on the mana base. Counters like Arcane Denial or Memory Lapse for one, or just cheaper casting stuff overall like good ole Counterspell itself.
Still, I'll have to test the build with the 'bigger' counters that you've suggested. I'm pretty sure Spell Crumple is just that good since you can tuck a commander, and Voidslime looks like it can solve a lot of my problems. Last Word is really expensive mana-wise for my tastes but how's it performed so far in your deck?
I love it, simply because its the "hardest available" counter. Split Second tends to end things rather well.
Voidslime is there because, well, you know >_> I hate my GY getting removed. Hinder and Spell Crumble are your friends.
The cheap counters route is always an option, using 1U stuff, but I'd shy away from anything that lets people pay for getting around the effect, so I always aim for "hard counters" rather than "soft counters"
My meta doesnt really have a speed issue, so 3cc counters are alright here. That's why I get mine as the "hard counter"+stuff
Induce Paranoia is cute, but rather expensive. It may be funny to use, depending on the speed and mana flexibility of your build.
1 The Mimeoplasm
Planeswalkers: 1
1 Liliana Vess
Creatures: 25
1 Acidic Slime
1 Body Double
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Gilded Drake
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Magus of the Bazaar
1 Merfolk Looter
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Putrefax
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Terastodon
1 Thought Courier
1 Triskelion
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Yavimaya Elder
Artifacts: 5
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rhystic Study
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Sorceries: 9
1 Bribery
1 Buried Alive
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exhume
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Reanimate
1 Tooth and Nail
Instants: 14
1 Beast Within
1 Capsize
1 Corpse Dance
1 Desertion
1 Entomb
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Krosan Grip
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pact of Negation
1 Trickbind
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Voidslime
1 Worldly Tutor
5 Forest
5 Island
5 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacombs
1 Flooded Grove
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Tainted Wood
1 Temple of the False God
1 Twilight Mire
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Yavimaya Coast
__________________________
ORIGINAL POST
So far my deckbuilding has basically consisted of this trope based on scattered suggestions. I'm looking to give it some proper direction now.
1 The Mimeoplasm
Planeswalker:
1 Liliana Vess
Creatures: (29)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Blighted Agent
1 Brawn
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mulldrifter
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Palinchron
1 Putrefax
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scythe Specter
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon
1 Triskelion
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Wonder
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Expedition Map
1 Golgari Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Trepanation Blade
Enchantments: (2)
1 Grave Pact
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants: (6)
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Relic Crush
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorceries: (13)
1 All is Dust
1 Buried Alive
1 Cultivate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life's Finale
1 Living Death
1 Mulch
1 Stitch Together
1 Syphon Flesh
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
8 Swamp
7 Forest
7 Island
1 Bant Panorama
1 Barren Moor
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Rupture Spire
1 Salt Marsh
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
I know that I'll have to find slots for Survival of the Fittest and Genesis. Help?
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
I'm a bit confused. How does that work if Triskelion chucks +1/+1 counters for damage and the Devourer ability will likely give itself a bigger counter (since Triskelion's ability specifically reads that you remove a +1/+1 counter, and not just any counter, and Devourer gets a +X/+X based on CMC)?
Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply combine Triskelion with something really huge (like say, Lord of Extinction)?
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
1 The Mimeoplasm
Planeswalker:
1 Liliana Vess
Creatures: (29)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Blighted Agent
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mulldrifter
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Palinchron
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Putrefax
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon
1 Triskelion
1 Trygon Predator
1 Vorosh, the Hunter
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Wonder
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Expedition Map
1 Golgari Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Trepanation Blade
Enchantments: (1)
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants: (6)
1 Beast Within
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorceries: (13)
1 All is Dust
1 Buried Alive
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life's Finale
1 Living Death
1 Profane Command
1 Stitch Together
1 Windfall
7 Swamp
7 Island
6 Forest
1 Bant Panorama
1 Barren Moor
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Rupture Spire
1 Salt Marsh
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
Is it just me or do I have too many sorceries in there? Is there a basic ratio of lands-creatures-others that you normally follow for EDH builds?
And did I make any big mistakes with some of the stuff I dropped?
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
Two (cheap) card suggestions:
-Mindless Automaton: this card does everything the deck needs. It lets you drop overpriced crap from your hand, it draws you cards, and it gives you an ability that makes good use of all the counters on the Mimeoplasm.
-Splinterfright: nice new card, decent size for the Mimeoplasm plus it's mill effect lets you put stuff in the yard.
Good question, actually. See, the current idea here is for all the creatures in the deck to be threats by themselves with or without being copied by ole Mimeo (with the exception of LoE of course, but he gets colossal). Still, I should probably do some playtesting with Mortivore back in since from the recent games I actually tend to lack big buffs for him.
Which brings me to my next question: People have been suggesting some mass-discard stuff like Mirror-Mad Phantasm and Tunnel Vision. Are those suggestions sound? I'm under the impression that while I'd want to fill my GY up quickly I don't want to dump huge chunks of my deck since I still want some gas in my hand.
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
It depends on the playgroup I guess. Personally I wouldn't inflict too much discard on other players, but it depends on what you call fun. Generally speaking I wouldn't play cards that only targets a single player or only makes yourself discard (or mill) cards, as these lead to "win more" situations instead of creating an advantageous board position.
There's some value in Smallpox (or even Pox, depending on the deck) for sure though. You only have room for 99 cards, so every card has to count. If you want to make sure a card like Tunnel Vision or Traumatize gives you the win, you have to use it on yourself (because you can't always count on your opponent to have the right creatures to eat). As I doubt you can cast that card and the Mimeoplasm in the same turn, you're opening yourself to graveyard hate. So I'd prefer something that has either a continuous effect or strengthens your board position. Splinterfright fits here, Tunnel Vision, well, not so much. For a similar effect you might better look at Mindcrank or Mesmeric Orb.
If Mortivore isn't larger than his mana cost, something is wrong. Mortivore lacks evasion (solution: add Brawn, Wonder, Filth, two of which you already have), so that's why a lot of people consider it sub-par. LoE is just plain better, although regeneration can be more than decent. In a four player game, Mortivore should easily be over size 10, so in that regard it's the ideal buff for Mimeoplasm's size. Even if you're not eating it, it's a big ass regenerating blocker.
You could read this for a little inspiration
By the way, if you're running Necrotic Ooze, you might consider Doomed Necromancer. If you have rocket shoes in play it's good on it's own, but with Necrotic Ooze you can loop sacrifices for as much mana as you have. That's a good lock with Grave Pact.
I shifted my build away from mass mill because it left me too vulnerable. Putting all my eggs in 1 basket so to speak. The better idea is to throw some effects that pitch stuff to the grave and give you cards in hand like Fact or Fiction or Forbidden Alchemy. That way if your grave gets hit (it will) then you have a backup plan.
As it is, the deck's looking at least a bit good -- and that's the problem. Since everyone in the playgroup knows (from the 1v1 playtests) that I'm capable of KOing someone within a single turn once I've amassed enough mana for it (as one friend put it: "Those one-turn Infect kills outta nowhere"), I'm either eliminated early or locked down for most of the game.
So far the only card I've put in to help this out is Platinum Emperion but I'm looking for other suggestions. Or is it simply a matter of playstyle wherein I have to 1) learn to be better at politicking with the other players and 2) look like less of a threat on the board (i.e. not playing any praetors unless it's a sure win)?
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
You can take it in two directions: make the deck more competitive, or less. If you attract less attention and focus on making the game "more fun", you can get very far. Given that you play 1v1 commander I'm not sure if that's the way for you though. If you don't understand what I mean, I suggest you read this. It's an arms race, and backing off is a viable option. If you need to spice the deck up, perhaps it's time to add some counterspells. You are playing blue after all...
Anyway, I figured out another card to put in the deck: Deathrender. It's a nice way to cheat fat from your hand into play.
1 The Mimeoplasm
Planeswalker:
1 Liliana Vess
Creatures: (30)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 It That Betrays
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Palinchron
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrefax
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon
1 Triskelion
1 Trygon Predator
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Wonder
1 Yavimaya Elder
Artifacts: (10)
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Trepanation Blade
Enchantments: (1)
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants: (6)
1 Beast Within
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 All is Dust
1 Buried Alive
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life's Finale
1 Living Death
1 Stitch Together
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Lands: (37)
1 Bant Panorama
1 Barren Moor
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Rupture Spire
1 Salt Marsh
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
5 Island
5 Forest
5 Swamp
1 Annul
1 Cancel
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Djinn of Wishes
1 Expedition Map
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Mirror-Mad Phantasm
1 Negate
1 Putrefy
1 Remand
1 Spell Crumple
1 Syphon Mind
1 Tunnel Vision
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
I'm definitely slotting in Survival of the Fittest, Phyrexian Devourer and Tooth and Nail when I get them, most likely making room for Mimic Vat and Consecrated Sphinx too if I can nab copies. Hall of the Bandit Lord's another card that I'm looking into for this deck as well as Boseiju, Who Shelters All and I guess some of your basic Land-D like Strip Mine and/or Tectonic Edge for those pesky Maze of Iths. But that can all wait for when I actually have those cards.
I'm thinking that I could actually drop the praetors for friendlier creatures when playing casual with folks outside of my regular playgroup. After a few practice games with a stranger I noticed that just having any one of those three is pretty NPE, as well as any of those instant-win combos (i.e. Skittles or Putrefax pumped high enough to break the 10-poison-counter threshold instantly).
Aaand there's also the concern of tweaking it to implement the French ban list for tourney play but that's a whole different beast.
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
(Instead of posting the decklist over and over I've just been editing that last post to save space here.)
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
The Buried Alive is staying precisely for that reason, funnily enough. From the games I've played I've learned that redundancy is the order of the day in a singletons format. Although...
This is a very valid point. While the signets haven't really failed me so far in terms of mana production, I figure they're eventually getting cut out once I get some good replacements (i.e. Innistrad dual lands like Woodland Cemetery or Hinterland harbor). Then once that happens maybe I can afford to cut a few of the other lands (maybe some of the basics) for some power cards like the aforementioned Survival as well as Tooth and Nail.
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
It was an "if", not a "when"
There's another consideration: randomness. With enough tutors you can make the deck resilient. That's a good thing, but it's not really the nature of EDH. It's something you and your playgroup have to figure out, but randomness leads to different games every time you play (and because you're unable to come up with the right answer at the right time: likely shorter games). For example: running Stinkweed Imp instead of Buried Alive. Think about it, it's not as dumb as it seems
If it's resilience you're looking for, maybe adding the pimp in addition to Buried Alive and Survival isn't a bad idea. What kind of resilience are you looking for? Because this can mean you're: not running enough ramp/tutors/aggro hosers/card draw, or too many of those. From just looking at your decklist I have the feeling you are running too many different Mimeo-food. Especially if you're running more tutors you might consider running less "mimeoplasm targets" and more solid creatures.
That's a solid suggestion! I prefer raw card drawing over tutoring (see above... but card draw improves resilience obviously!), and card draw that dumps something in the yard (like Careful Study) is very solid in this deck.
About those signets: they get blown up a lot. There are disks sweeping the board every other turn, and even if your opponent has a spare KGrip you might even randomly get hosed. Putting lands into play is a lot better than those. I really like my suggestion of running some dredge plus LftL, but if you don't have a Loam I can see that it might not be a card you want to pick up. You'd be guaranteed of a land drop though, and that could fix your mana base for less money than the cards you're considering for your mana base. Hermit Druid would be stellar in such a deck. Or you could replace the signets with stuff like Wood Elves (if you have duals) or Farhaven Elf (if you don't have them).
1 The Mimeoplasm
Planeswalker:
1 Liliana Vess
Creatures: (30)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 It That Betrays
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Putrefax
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon
1 Triskelion
1 Trygon Predator
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Wonder
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Trepanation Blade
Enchantments: (1)
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants: (6)
1 Beast Within
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorceries: (14)
1 All is Dust
1 Buried Alive
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life's Finale
1 Living Death
1 Stitch Together
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Lands: (40)
1 Bant Panorama
1 Barren Moor
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Jund Panorama
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Rupture Spire
1 Salt Marsh
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Woodland Cemetery
5 Island
5 Forest
6 Swamp
As before I'm leaving a link to the 'tourney' version of the deck just for reference since this is linked in my sig.
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
If this isn't budget anymore please please please add an Intuition!
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
The original concept my friends and I had with this deck was to shy away from the typical Mimeo build of "half your creatures have cool abilities, the other half simply have high stats and are purely there to pump your Mimeo up massively" by making each and every creature in the deck a potential threat whether they're being copied or hardcast. I also decided to shy away from the usual Mimeo trend of tossing in mass self-mill (i.e. Tunnel Vision, Hermit Druid) under the assumption that I'd rather have business in-hand at all times instead of dumping huge chunks of the deck into the GY.
So far it's actually served me well actually, and I was pretty happy with the deck's performance...until I went up against Draw-Go decks on Cockatrice, that is.
See, the deck's pretty much got a single strategy: ramp, go for something big (whether you're hardcasting a powerful creature, setting up a one-turn kill from Mimeo or going for a huge game-winning spell like Tooth and Nail). Thus it's proven to be easily hosed by heavy counterspells or just disruption in general. More often than not once I've set up a wincon, it just gets fizzled.
Any suggestions on how to better equip my Mimeo to deal with such decks? I'm open to the possibility that instead of just altering the current build I might have to rebuild from scratch.
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
And so the deck looks something like this...
1 The Mimeoplasm
Planeswalker:
1 Liliana Vess
Creatures: 26
1 Acidic Slime
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 It That Betrays
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Putrefax
1 Riftsweeper
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Terastodon
1 Triskelion
1 Trygon Predator
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Wonder
1 Yavimaya Elder
Artifacts: 6
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants: 13
1 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
1 Beast Within
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Spell Crumple
1 Trickbind
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorceries: 13
1 All is Dust
1 Buried Alive
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life's Finale
1 Living Death
1 Stitch Together
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Lands: 38
5 Island
4 Swamp
4 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Command Tower
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Rupture Spire
1 Salt Marsh
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Woodland Cemetery
I think the manabase needs an overhaul. Am I cutting too many basic lands for my "search for basic land" effects to be too useful? Do I still have enough high-CMC cards in here to make the Nectoritic Ooze/Devourer/Triskelion combo worthwhile (in this deck's last incarnation with higher CMC's all around I managed to win a five-man came with just that combo)? Am I right to consider cutting the Panoramas out altogther since I've got more versatile nonbasic lands that won'd have me waste 1 mana fetching something that'll come into play tapped?
Also worth noting would be other options I was told for the deck build. Instead of counters I could supposedly increase the number of board wipes (i.e. Decree of Pain, Pernicious Deed, Nevinyrral's Disk to routinely provide fuel for my GY shenanigans. Full-on reanimator is another option (and I should have the cards for that anyway thanks to Graveborn) that I've considered but haven't really fleshed out. Another is to simply add more combos in the deck (i.e. Palinchron + Minion Reflector to fuel some infinite mana win con like Oona, Queen of the Fae or Ambassador Laquatus) to basically ensure that I draw at least one combo to win the game with. Then there's always the mass self-discard route with stuff like Hermit Druid though a lot of the folks I've talked to disagree with that since you're getting rid of potential gas in-hand. Would any of you also agree that any mana-demanding EDH deck with black in it practically needs Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
As before I'm leaving a link to the 'tourney' version of the deck just for reference since this version of the deck's the one linked in my sig. I'll work on updating the French Ban version of this deck once I'm sure of the 'normal' one's build though.
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
Everyone expects you to combo out/self-mill with Mimeoplasm. Go for it, I say, do what you want [and I'll run highlander reanimator >_>]. However, you will always need countermagic. I'd like to start with a few basics:
Last Word, Dissipate, and Voidslime are your three best bets. Last Word ends things, Dissipate exiles things, and Voidslime is your go to counter for anything. I'm testing Undermine right now, and you really can't go wrong with things like Pact of Negation or Counterspell.
Run both Spell Crumble and Hinder. Tuck the general, tuck it good.
Situationally, I'd run Trickbind over Stifle due to the Split Second, and possibly Voidmage Husher if you run into crazy amounts of Activated/Triggered Abilities. Husher also works great for use as a flash in chump.
I'd steer clear of expensive counters and Cryptic Command. I find the triple blue difficult to muster/keep open as I often have creatures (Teferi, Magus of the Future) that require the triple blue to use. Cryptic Command has a place, and its not in a Mimeoplasm deck, unless your color fixing is fantastic.
I'll edit this post when I find the thread I'm looking for, but at one point there was a thread of compiled counters that were awesome in EDH. When I find it, you'll know! EDIT: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=285800&highlight=countermagic Is probably closest to what I was looking for. Someone probably has the link I'm looking for bookmarked.
EDH:
UBGMimeoplasm (Reanimator Control)
WGBURProgenitus (Dream Halls//Good Stuff)
RNorin, the Wary (Metaddited Gaka List)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios!
Still, I'll have to test the build with the 'bigger' counters that you've suggested. I'm pretty sure Spell Crumple is just that good since you can tuck a commander, and Voidslime looks like it can solve a lot of my problems. Last Word is really expensive mana-wise for my tastes but how's it performed so far in your deck?
Project M (Mimeoplasm EDH) :symg::symu::symb:
Herbert West: The Deck
Basic Discarder
RDW for Kids
Troll: The Regenerating
I love it, simply because its the "hardest available" counter. Split Second tends to end things rather well.
Voidslime is there because, well, you know >_> I hate my GY getting removed. Hinder and Spell Crumble are your friends.
The cheap counters route is always an option, using 1U stuff, but I'd shy away from anything that lets people pay for getting around the effect, so I always aim for "hard counters" rather than "soft counters"
My meta doesnt really have a speed issue, so 3cc counters are alright here. That's why I get mine as the "hard counter"+stuff
Induce Paranoia is cute, but rather expensive. It may be funny to use, depending on the speed and mana flexibility of your build.
EDH:
UBGMimeoplasm (Reanimator Control)
WGBURProgenitus (Dream Halls//Good Stuff)
RNorin, the Wary (Metaddited Gaka List)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios!