I'm currently building my first EDH deck. This is where I'm at right now. I need to remove/replace alot of these spells, but I'm not sure which. I've never played a game of EDH but I'd like to start. Let me know what you think. Please keep in mind, I want this to stay super casual. I'm not looking to spend anymore than $10 on this. The cards I have listed are already part of my collection, so they don't count towards my budget.
You made a great choice choosing Borb for your first general. He's quite easy to play correctly, and a lot of fun too.
Your list isn't bad for a casual environment, but there are a few points in which it could be polished. Let's look at a few pillars of Commander deckbuilding:
Mana acceleration: accelerating your mana generation so you can play bigger cards early on is really important, especially given your commander is 7CMC and green. The only cards you have right now that do that are Recross the Paths, Oracle of Mul Daya and Explosive Vegetation and, although both of them are great, I'd reccomend raising that count to around 10 cards (you're also running too few lands. Most decks require around 40 to work properly). Suggestions:
-Gruul Signet (another good turn 2 accel option, the only downside of the signets is they sometimes become casualties of artifact destruction. Plus, it would be a Vorthosian shame if you ran the Gruul guildleader (that would be Borb, in case you're not into storyline) and not their signet.)
-Sakura-Tribe Elder (really good, as is a Rampant Growth that can chump block in a pinch. He also allows you to play a turn 3 Oracle/Vegetation if you get them both early.)
-Farhaven Elf/Wood Elves (similar to STE, but they get to stick around afterward to carry equipment of be pumped by Borb.)
-Cultivate/Kodama's Reach (they ramp, make sure you have a land drop for the next turn and fix your colors. Not amazing, but they work.)
-Boundless Realms can be overramping and it has the same CMC as your general, but casting it right after Rampaging Baloths is awesome.
In sum, anything that puts lands into play quick is acceptable as ramp. I also think Prismatic Omen won't be necessary, as 2-color fixing can be done with a good manabase alone. If you already have one and want to play it, though, it's not bad.
Card Advantage: now you have the mana to play your spells, we have to actually get stuff in your hand for you to play. Commander games tend to be long wars of attrition much more often than in any other format, so if you can't get yourself reliable ways to refill your hand often you will end up losing to decks which do. Garruk's Packleader and Soul of the Harvest aren't bad if you plan on playing a lot of creatures. Their problem is they die to mass removal. Creeping Renaissance costs a lot of mana, but its great to recur creatures. Greater Good costs around $4, so you might not be able to fit it in your budget, but sacrificing creatures that were going to die anyways gets you a lot of card advantage.
Threats: how are you actually planning to win the game? Given your general and your decklist, I suppose it has something to do with swinging wildly with +1/+1 counter-covered creatures.
You have a Fires of Yavimaya in there. Mass haste enablers are a powerful tool for you because all your creatures want to attack as soon as possible. You should also complement it with Into the Web of War or Anger.
With some trample enablers as well, like Brawn and the already-there Gruul War Plow, you could consider Stonebrow, Krosan Hero as one of your 99, as he functions similarly to Borborygmos in that both pump your armies of little creatures. Speaking on that, little creatures. Your list is filled with stuff like Flamekin Spitfire and Pyre Charger, which, honestly, are pretty bad in this format. Token makers like Goblin Assault, Beetleback Chief, Hornet Queen and Wolfbriar Elemental might work better than them.
Answers: answering your opponents' strategies properly takes practice and knowledge of your metagame, so I wouldn't expect it to be something your first deck is good at. You should however pack a good amount of wide-range removal like Beast Within and removal on creatures like Acidic Slime and Indrik Stomphowler. Windstorm and Savage Twister are really useful mass removal spells you're already running. As you have virtually no fliers among your creatures, a Chaosphere can make opponents' creatures easy to block and give yours evasion.
As for what to cut, I suggest taking a look at most of the french vanilla creatures like Slinking Giant, Wall of Fire and Geyser Glider (which happens to be a strictly worse version of Hoarding Draogn, an actually very good card which costs only a quarter more) and small utility spells like Giant Growth and Lightning Bolt (which, believe it or not, is bad in this format).
So, this is it. Hope it was helpful for you!
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Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
Well, since I can't really suggest cards outside your budget, let me reenforce what was already said: you need more lands. My suggestion would be to cut the following:
I suggest these because you either don't have enough mana to use them (Grappling Hook, for example) or you have enough other effects to make them redundant (Predatory Focus). You can easily just replace these with 10 Mountain and 10 Forest.
Since most of what I cut are not creatures, you can still just keep dropping dudes and turning them sideways.
If you can find room among the other cards (and also on the cheap), I'd find these cards:
I'd like to keep the Prismatic Omen for two reasons. One, I think it works well with cards like Deathforge Shaman, Pyre Charger, Inner-Flame Igniter. It also works in the same way with some other cards I'm thinking of adding. Two, I love the artwork! I consider myself a Pagan, and the idea of playing a card with a pentacle on it just appeals to me.
My point here is, these are the cards I'm willing to cut right now, and I still need to make room for some lands. Also, I'm thinking about adding the following cards. Let me know if they can replace any cards that are already in the deck, if I should replace other cards with them, or if I should avoid them altogether.
Sorry to ask such huge questions, I know it takes time to respond. This is my first EDH deck and I want it to be at least competitive when I finally take it down to my local shop.
I realize that some of these may be out of budget, but the main 3 you should look into are the Lantern and Harmonize. Lantern acts as prismatic omen 2 and gives you another mana to work with. Harmonize is a flat out draw spell it's awesome in green based EDH. (Fireshrieker + borb = winning!) Fireshreiker is an awesomely fun card that makes even a small creature with a few counters into a potent threat. Putting it on Borb can increase the size of your team quickly.
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Does anyone think that Elvish Piper deserves a spot in this deck? I feel like I plan on casting a lot of high cmc cards. I could use Seeker of Skybreak, Elvish Scout to untap and use her again.
Does anyone think that Elvish Piper deserves a spot in this deck? I feel like I plan on casting a lot of high cmc cards. I could use Seeker of Skybreak, Elvish Scout to untap and use her again.
Piper is a fine card, specially with Fires of Yavimaya to give it haste. Given your deck is very top-heavy, having some alternatives to cheat creatures into play is indeed a good idea. Gamekeeper is also very decent at that.
(removed the cards which I don't find particularly interesting)
Wayfinver, Sylvan and Borderland Ranger are so-so. They aren't bad in that they replace themselves, then give Borb more bodies to pump, but aren't awesome either.
Cultivate and Farhaven Elf are both good ramp, respectively fixing your next land drop and giving you some board presence in addition to getting lands. Explore isn't bad, either, although you're not running the Oracle of Mul Daya which makes it awesome.
Acidic Slime is very good. Creeping Mold is much like a worse version of it, I'd suggest using Indrik Stomphowler instead if hitting lands isn't much of a concern. Master of the Wild Hunt is neat too, even more if you have some way of producing massive amounts of wolves (think sacrificing a +1/+1 counter-covered creature to Feed the Pack).
Yes, I just found out about the banning of Primeval Titan, which I'm very disappointed about considering that I love the card. I'd like to sell him, but due to his bannings, I know I won't get much. As far as the Explore goes; I am running an Oracle of Mul Daya. I'm going to put the deck together this weekend and post the final list then. If any one is feeling up to it, feel free to take any of the cards talked about in this thread, and build the deck. I'd like to see how you guys and gals would do it.
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1 Borborygmos
Creatures (41)
1 Rumbling Slum
1 Skarrgan Skybreaker
1 Primeval Titan
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Plated Slagwurm
1 Living Hive
1 Terra stompber
1 Tornado Elemental
1 Verdant Force
1 Ivy Elemental
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Mossbridge Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Cudgel Troll
1 Baloth Woodcrasher
1 Trolls of Tel-Jilad
1 Battering Wurm
1 Slith Predator
1 Briarhorn
1 Walker of the Grove
1 Drove of Elves
1 Mwonvuli Beast Tracker
1 Obsidian Fireheart
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Goblin Runeblaster
1 Deathforge Shaman
1 Wall of Fire
1 Geyser Glider
1 Flamekin Harbringer
1 Hellfire Mongrel
1 Rockslide Elemental
1 Cinder Elemental
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Fire Servant
1 Flamekin Spitfire
1 Pyre Charger
1 Slinking Giant
1 Hearthcage Giant
1 Spitebellows
1 Inner-Flame Igniter
1 Primeval Light
1 Recross the Paths
1 Seek the Horizon
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Nature's Spiral
1 Renewing Touch
1 One Dozen Eyes
1 Predatory Focus
1 Overrun
1 Tower Above
1 Act of Treason
1 Fireball
1 Pyroclasm
1 Jaws of Stone
1 Fossil Find
1 Savage Twister
Instant (8)
1 Baloth Cage Trap
1 Windstorm
1 Bloodscent
1 Primal Bellow
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Giant Growth
1 Lava Axe
1 Runeflare Trap
1 Guttural Response
Enchantment (8)
1 Gigantiform
1 Wurmweaver Coil
1 Prismatic Omen
1 Wild Evocation
1 Leyline of Punishment
1 Leyline of Lightning
1 Fractured Loyalty
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Grappling Hook
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Trailblazer's Boots
1 Warmonger's Chariot
1 Mage Slayer
1 Gruul War Plow
Lands (18)
1 Shivan Oasis
1 Kazandu Refuge
8 Forest
8 Mountain
Your list isn't bad for a casual environment, but there are a few points in which it could be polished. Let's look at a few pillars of Commander deckbuilding:
Mana acceleration: accelerating your mana generation so you can play bigger cards early on is really important, especially given your commander is 7CMC and green. The only cards you have right now that do that are Recross the Paths, Oracle of Mul Daya and Explosive Vegetation and, although both of them are great, I'd reccomend raising that count to around 10 cards (you're also running too few lands. Most decks require around 40 to work properly). Suggestions:
-Explore (works well with your Oracle.)
-Gruul Signet (another good turn 2 accel option, the only downside of the signets is they sometimes become casualties of artifact destruction. Plus, it would be a Vorthosian shame if you ran the Gruul guildleader (that would be Borb, in case you're not into storyline) and not their signet.)
-Sakura-Tribe Elder (really good, as is a Rampant Growth that can chump block in a pinch. He also allows you to play a turn 3 Oracle/Vegetation if you get them both early.)
-Farhaven Elf/Wood Elves (similar to STE, but they get to stick around afterward to carry equipment of be pumped by Borb.)
-Cultivate/Kodama's Reach (they ramp, make sure you have a land drop for the next turn and fix your colors. Not amazing, but they work.)
-Boundless Realms can be overramping and it has the same CMC as your general, but casting it right after Rampaging Baloths is awesome.
In sum, anything that puts lands into play quick is acceptable as ramp. I also think Prismatic Omen won't be necessary, as 2-color fixing can be done with a good manabase alone. If you already have one and want to play it, though, it's not bad.
Card Advantage: now you have the mana to play your spells, we have to actually get stuff in your hand for you to play. Commander games tend to be long wars of attrition much more often than in any other format, so if you can't get yourself reliable ways to refill your hand often you will end up losing to decks which do.
Garruk's Packleader and Soul of the Harvest aren't bad if you plan on playing a lot of creatures. Their problem is they die to mass removal. Creeping Renaissance costs a lot of mana, but its great to recur creatures. Greater Good costs around $4, so you might not be able to fit it in your budget, but sacrificing creatures that were going to die anyways gets you a lot of card advantage.
Threats: how are you actually planning to win the game? Given your general and your decklist, I suppose it has something to do with swinging wildly with +1/+1 counter-covered creatures.
You have a Fires of Yavimaya in there. Mass haste enablers are a powerful tool for you because all your creatures want to attack as soon as possible. You should also complement it with Into the Web of War or Anger.
With some trample enablers as well, like Brawn and the already-there Gruul War Plow, you could consider Stonebrow, Krosan Hero as one of your 99, as he functions similarly to Borborygmos in that both pump your armies of little creatures. Speaking on that, little creatures. Your list is filled with stuff like Flamekin Spitfire and Pyre Charger, which, honestly, are pretty bad in this format. Token makers like Goblin Assault, Beetleback Chief, Hornet Queen and Wolfbriar Elemental might work better than them.
Answers: answering your opponents' strategies properly takes practice and knowledge of your metagame, so I wouldn't expect it to be something your first deck is good at. You should however pack a good amount of wide-range removal like Beast Within and removal on creatures like Acidic Slime and Indrik Stomphowler. Windstorm and Savage Twister are really useful mass removal spells you're already running. As you have virtually no fliers among your creatures, a Chaosphere can make opponents' creatures easy to block and give yours evasion.
As for what to cut, I suggest taking a look at most of the french vanilla creatures like Slinking Giant, Wall of Fire and Geyser Glider (which happens to be a strictly worse version of Hoarding Draogn, an actually very good card which costs only a quarter more) and small utility spells like Giant Growth and Lightning Bolt (which, believe it or not, is bad in this format).
So, this is it. Hope it was helpful for you!
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
I suggest these because you either don't have enough mana to use them (Grappling Hook, for example) or you have enough other effects to make them redundant (Predatory Focus). You can easily just replace these with 10 Mountain and 10 Forest.
Since most of what I cut are not creatures, you can still just keep dropping dudes and turning them sideways.
If you can find room among the other cards (and also on the cheap), I'd find these cards:
...or similar items to help you ramp into big spells and draw more cards.
Thanks for your input. It's really helped. This is what I'm thinking right now:
1 Slinking Giant
1 Geyser Glider
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Giant Growth
1 Gigantiform
1 Wurmweaver Coil
1 Fractured Loyalty
1 Leyline of Lightning
1 Leyline of Punishment
1 Lava Axe
1 Runflare Trap
1 Guttural Response
1 Warmonger's Chariot
1 Fossil Find
1 Slith Predator
1 Briarhorn
1 Walker of the Grove
1 Hellfire Mongrel
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Fire Servant
1 Flamekin Spitfire
1 Hearthcage Giant
1 Bloodscent
1 Rumbling Slum
1 Skarrgan Skybreaker
1 Tower Above
I'd like to keep the Prismatic Omen for two reasons. One, I think it works well with cards like Deathforge Shaman, Pyre Charger, Inner-Flame Igniter. It also works in the same way with some other cards I'm thinking of adding. Two, I love the artwork! I consider myself a Pagan, and the idea of playing a card with a pentacle on it just appeals to me.
My point here is, these are the cards I'm willing to cut right now, and I still need to make room for some lands. Also, I'm thinking about adding the following cards. Let me know if they can replace any cards that are already in the deck, if I should replace other cards with them, or if I should avoid them altogether.
1 Cultivate
1 Rampant Growth
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Explore
1 Scute Mob
1 Greenweaver Druid
1 Acidic Slime
1 Creeping Mold
1 Shiv's Embrace
1 Aggresive Urge
1 Trollhide
1 Foxfire Oak
1 Beacon Behemoth
1 Viridescent Wisps
1 Borderland Ranger
1 Rites of Spring
1 Journey of Discovery
1 Dosan's Oldest Chant
1 Relic Crush
1 Wing Puncture
1 Overgrowth
1 Silverglade Elemental
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Plummet
1 Fertile Ground
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Chartooth Tiger
1 Colos Yearling
1 Aetherflame Wall
1 Pygmy Pyrosaur
1 Furnace Spirit
1 Molten Ravager
1 Fissure Vent
1 Firebreathing
1 Boiling Blood
Sorry to ask such huge questions, I know it takes time to respond. This is my first EDH deck and I want it to be at least competitive when I finally take it down to my local shop.
I realize that some of these may be out of budget, but the main 3 you should look into are the Lantern and Harmonize. Lantern acts as prismatic omen 2 and gives you another mana to work with. Harmonize is a flat out draw spell it's awesome in green based EDH. (Fireshrieker + borb = winning!) Fireshreiker is an awesomely fun card that makes even a small creature with a few counters into a potent threat. Putting it on Borb can increase the size of your team quickly.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I think you'd also benefit from some anti-counter cards, especially since Borb carries a fairly expensive 7 CMC:
Removal is also very important, and you seem to be lacking. Some RG removal I'd recommend:
Piper is a fine card, specially with Fires of Yavimaya to give it haste. Given your deck is very top-heavy, having some alternatives to cheat creatures into play is indeed a good idea. Gamekeeper is also very decent at that.
I agree with removing most of these, except maybe Hearthcage Giant, which I like a lot.
(removed the cards which I don't find particularly interesting)
Wayfinver, Sylvan and Borderland Ranger are so-so. They aren't bad in that they replace themselves, then give Borb more bodies to pump, but aren't awesome either.
Cultivate and Farhaven Elf are both good ramp, respectively fixing your next land drop and giving you some board presence in addition to getting lands. Explore isn't bad, either, although you're not running the Oracle of Mul Daya which makes it awesome.
Acidic Slime is very good. Creeping Mold is much like a worse version of it, I'd suggest using Indrik Stomphowler instead if hitting lands isn't much of a concern. Master of the Wild Hunt is neat too, even more if you have some way of producing massive amounts of wolves (think sacrificing a +1/+1 counter-covered creature to Feed the Pack).
And Primeval Titan is banned, by the way.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck