MTG Salvation

**NOTE** This deck focuses on using Eight-and-a-Half-Tails as a Voltron/Control general but any of the legends are more than capable of being utilized as an efficient general.
Check post 3 for other user decklists.

Is The Army for you?

The Army. Background check.
The Army


Possible additions to The Army

Changes to The Army

Eight-and-a-Half-Tails really loves Eldrazi Conscription. He can protect himself from removal in response and it allows him to kill very quickly. It's also really nice on Avacyn, Akroma, and Iona. You could even run an Inkmoth Nexus to drop it on, which is an instant kill if nobody can stop it.

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Quote from Shadowkill

Should I remove the Ulamog's Crusher for it?
I have that along with the living weapons and karn as outs to opposing Ionas.
And as for Nexus I've been thinking about running more man-lands but have been unsure about the best options.
In 1v1 I could easily see the applications on the nexus, but with multiplayer is the differentiating damage worth it?

It is with all of the equipment you're running. You could actually cut lots of things and be okay. This list isn't very cutthroat anyway, so it won't make that much of a difference. If you want to get more competitive, you'll need to replace a good number of cards.

If Iona is really a big problem in your meta, strongly consider Duplicant, Brittle Effigy, Spine of Ish Sah, Oblivion Stone, Nevinyrral's Disk, and Intrepid Hero.

I've been thinking about cutting a large number of things that care about being equipped.
Ex. I would keep Puresteel Paladin but remove the Shikari for something like canonist.
My reasoning is that the buff they give themselves is negligible compared to the hate generated by the other cards of comparable mana cost.
Is my reasoning sound in that regard? The equipment themselves are what really do the damage.
Also I only recently added the D&T cards Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor and they are very impressive against people who enjoy doing comboey things or having excessive numbers of fetches.

From my second post: Should I remove the Ulamog's Crusher for it?
I have that along with the living weapons and karn as outs to opposing Ionas.
And as for Nexus I've been thinking about running more man-lands but have been unsure about the best options.
In 1v1 I could easily see the applications on the nexus, but with multiplayer is the differentiating damage worth it?

Quote from Shadowkill

I've been thinking about cutting a large number of things that care about being equipped.
Ex. I would keep Puresteel Paladin but remove the Shikari for something like canonist.
My reasoning is that the buff they give themselves is negligible compared to the hate generated by the other cards of comparable mana cost.
Is my reasoning sound in that regard? The equipment themselves are what really do the damage.
Also I only recently added the D&T cards Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor and they are very impressive against people who enjoy doing comboey things or having excessive numbers of fetches.

I personally prefer hatebears and utility weenies in a competitive meta. Aven Mindcensor is one of the very few cards I run in every single deck I can. I might even consider it one of the top 10 cards in the entire format. Ethersworn Cannonist is good, as are Suture Priest, Kami of Ancient Law, Ronom Unicorn, Phyrexian Revoker, Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Grand Abolisher, Jotun Grunt, Leonin Relic-Warder, Fiend Hunter, Whipcorder, Samurai of the Pale Curtain, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and True Believer can all seriously mess with the plans of your opponents while they beat them down with equipment.

Blade Splicer is worth mentioning for giving you two efficient, equipment-carrying bodies.

Silverblade Paladin is just nuts. Think about it for a second.

Some other cards to consider are Hero of Bladehold, Captain of the Watch, Cloudgoat Ranger, and Precursor Golem, as they all provide lots of bodies at a very cheap price.

True Conviction is probably the best pump you can ask for.

I'm assuming the Priest is against heavy token makers. Against anything else wouldn't the life gain/loss be more negligible?

The Kami and Unicorn seem great against enchantment voltrons as well as just good stops to stupid enchants.

I own Revokers but I feel like if there isn't something to name on the field they're dead or is there almost always something to name?

I realized recently how good Abolisher is, Seedborn Muse and Leyline of Anticipation is stupid.

I like the grunt but I feel like he will die quickly unless I'm playing many people or playing someone who uses grave strategy.

Relic Warder is comparable to the unicorn and kami but has different pros and cons and i guess testing is needed to see which one or which combination is best.

Fiend hunter can't truly deal with pesky generals and o-ring can take care of creatures in the same way so I am skeptical, although it can carry swords.

Would Gideon's Lawkeeper not be better?

Samurai; I have a few recursion cards but it would help against grave based decks I'm sure.

Doesn't Thalia hurt me just as much as the next guy considering the amount of non-creatures I run? I have them so that's not really a problem.

True Believer is an interesting alternative to the Leyline of Sanctity. Ilike it.

The Splicer I feel doesn't actually do as much as my other three drops as i tend to voltron it up with something like a mirran crusader.

I want to like Silverblade, but there is just something about him. Pairing him with Akroma when she is the general seems pretty enticing though. It warrants testing.

Is Bladehold good in EDH? I feel her battle cry effect will go un-optimized due to my tendency to voltron one or two champions up.... misleading deck name now that I think about it.

I've tried Captain and have been unimpressed. Same with the Ranger and Precurser Golem.

A large amount of my concerns revolve around cards being great in one matchup, but not very good in others. Should the deck have a Sideboard? Not many people have them that I know and might feel weird about me moving cards around before the game.

Also do you have any Comments on my number of lands? When it works it works but when it doesn't i always feel just a few short.
Same goes for my current chopping block list, I plan on doing a v.2 sometime tommorrow.

Thanks so much for all your help and I look forward to more.
Does this remind you any of an EDH version of D&T?

If you're running 8.5 Tails as your general, another neat trick you can do is use Story Circle naming white, and then proceed to prevent all damage (or as much as you have mana for) dealt to you. It's great if 8.5 Tails is your general and you have easy access to him, but Story Circle is too inconsistent to run otherwise. I'm personally running a more controllish Avacyn deck, but I've wanted to give 8.5 Tails a shot.

You definitely need some mana artifacts with only 35 lands and such a high curve (I'm assuming all your auxiliary generals are part of your deck as well). I see Thran Dynamo, Extraplanar Lens, and Gauntlet of Power on your list to add, which are all very good. I would also recommend Mind Stone and Everflowing Chalice, and when you add Extraplanar Lens, switch your lands to Snow-Covered Plains to make the Lens one-sided. Some other suggestions for tutors and card drawing are: Enlightened Tutor (if nothing else, get this), Mind's Eye, Idyllic Tutor, Scroll Rack (great with Land Tax when you add that), Staff of Nin, Planar Portal, and Citanul Flute. Oh, and Thawing Glaciers should find its way in to your deck as well. It nets you two lands if you do it at the end of your opponent's turn and then again during your turn. It can even get you three if you're swinging with a Sword of Feast and Famine or using Deserted Temple.

Story circle would be nice, but sometimes my group randomize our generals (their decks have at least two legal generals) so like you said, it isn't optimal without 8.5 Tails. And he is absolutely worth trying out as he is very good at protecting your control pieces.

Should I focus on adding more lands or adding more mana rocks? It is sad that white doesn't have a more powerful draw engine. I also didn't see that everyone with plains benefit from the lens, and I'm pretty attached to my full art zendikar john avon plains so I'll just remove it from the list as there are plenty of other mana rocks. Thanks for bringing that to my attention though.

The tutors both should be on my list, I must have forgotten to add them. Too good to not have.

My friend has a Scroll rack which I can get, I just have to pay my other card related debt first.
The other artifact CA engines cost too much mana-wise in my opinion.

But I love those lands.

I would add one more land (Thawing Glaciers would be great there), and then add maybe 4-5 mana rocks, or more if you find yourself short on mana. Another great one is Coalition Relic, as it allows you to save one use of it from the previous turn and produce two mana in one turn. Now that I think about it, I'd probably run that over either Mind Stone or Chalice. Mana Crypt is an auto-include if you can get it, but it is very expensive. Extraplanar Lens is very powerful and I urge you to reconsider. It's not just a mana rock, it effectively doubles your mana for a cost of only 3 mana and a land. You don't have to run Snow-Covered basics, but it's a good idea. The artwork on the Coldsnap ones is very nice too, although they're not full art.

And I would at least consider Mind's Eye for card draw, as it is cheaper than the others and has the potential to gain you massive card advantage in multiplayer. The others are probably better in a more dedicated control deck like mine. I would also take out Ajani Goldmane, as he doesn't seem to be all that good. Ajani, Caller of the Pride might be better (double strike and flying on a sworded creature seems good) if you still want to run a 4th Planeswalker. Umezawa's Jitte could also be a useful equipment, maybe over Champion's Helm. Devoted Caretaker and Weathered Wayfarer are some worthwhile one-drops to look into as well. I see Mother of Runes is on your add list, definitely add it. She's an infinite chump blocker on her own and protects your other creatures very well.

Do I need 6-7 Mana rocks though? My deck doesn't usually do more than one thing a turn unless it is equipping multiple times. I like Coalition Relic, Journeyer's Kite, and Thran Dynamo the best for mana rocks, (I don't like the price or effect of Crypt though, could you explain why it is good?) although i could test out using the lens.

I think I might just remove ajani and leave the walker count at three for now.

Is Jitte good in commander? I own one but I feel like it's abilities aren't super huge in this format, although I'd love to be proved wrong. Champions Helm, however I know is fantastic for me.

I want to like those two creatures but i currently don't.

I will be updating the changes section today if you'd like to give that a look and feedback.

Mana Crypt? That card is almost as good if not equal to Sol Ring, and if you have one or can get one then run it. It produces two colorless mana and costs 0. It may deal damage to you, but you have plenty of ways of gaining life, and it won't always deal damage. Maybe you're thinking of Mana Vault, I don't like that card either. Run as many mana rocks as you need, if you find yourself short on mana then keep adding more, but if you're usually okay with mana then you stick with what you have. I'm not a fan of Journeyer's Kite since it is kind of slow and doesn't really accelerate you, but use it if it works for you. Jitte can be good, I think, although it will depend on the matchup. It can kill off utility creatures, pump your guy, and gain you life if you're in a pinch. I'd say usually it's worth it. I don't run it, but I just don't have room and I don't focus on equipment as much as your deck does.

Also, I'd run Skullclamp over Infiltration Lens. Lens would be amazing in an Odric deck, but here it just basically makes a creature unblockable, and you have other ways of doing that. There's nothing more fun than clamping 2-3 soldier tokens and refilling your hand, except maybe doing it again next turn. Oh, and Swiftfoot Boots over Lightning Greaves. Greaves is a very good card, but you need to be able to target your creatures to equip them, and shroud doesn't allow for that. Hexproof does.

If I find a Mana Crypt I'll definitely add it. I should have read it better; I thought it was just three a turn.

I was thinking about getting rid of the lens for something, I own a clamp but I don't have too many x/1's or ways to make x/1's. I'll try it though.

I see what you mean about the greaves, I find myself forcing another creature to hold them to voltron one creature up. Just need to find one.

Preacher is pretty boss in mono white have you ever used Iona as a general?

Preacher fits more in my Zedruu and Friends deck. This deck is like death and taxes and the steal effect can't be taken advantage of very easily.

I have used Iona in 1v1 against one and two color decks (Niv Mizzet and Jor Kadeen) as well as in multiplayer where one color is in every deck (Damia, Kaalia, Thraximundar, and Garza Zol). She works much better in multiplayer although with the addition of more mana rocks I feel her usefulness will increase.

Yea makes sense I like Iona as your multi general just looking over the list. And mana crypt us not equal to sol ring it's much much better in my experience but my games are very fast turn wise.

I have a cockatrice now and am able to do some change testing and so far I am sure of three things;
1. The extra land has definitely seemed to help.
2. Thran dynamo is also great.
3. Nexus is awesome.

I found some more angels (not all are pure angels) that are pretty decent in this deck.
Thoughts on

• Admonition angel
  
• Angel of Jubilation
  
• Angelic Destiny
  
• Blinding Angel
  
• Entreat the Angels

As well as some SB cards.

• Angel's Grace
  
• Auriok Champion
  
• Kor Firewalker
  
• Curse of Exhaustion
  
• Spelltithe Enforcer

Thanks to everyone so far for the help. A thread refurbishing will be happening sometime in the (hopefully near) future.

Edit:

Major thread update:
Card choice discussion.
Why you should/shouldn't play this deck.
Updated decklist.

Soon to come:
Card choice discussion for what is currently in the deck.
Recent changes.
A thanks list of those who have suggested more than one card.

I would like to test more and more so I will make a SB and test with the following:

• Jotun Grunt
  
• Auriok Champion
  
• Kor Firewalker
  
• Suture Priest
  
• Kami of Ancient Law
  
• Ronom Unicorn
  
• Samurai of the Pale Curtain
  
• Rule of Law
  
• Curse of Exhaustion
  
• Day of Judgement
  
• Wrath of God
  
• Chronomantic Escape
  
• Ethersworn Canonist
  
• Angel's Grace
  
• Grand Abolisher
  

Thoughts on the SB, the thread, or questions would be much appreciated.

@enemywithin: I love your fan fiction. But I would really like to see your Avacyn deck. Would you mind posting it here or posting a link? If anything are there any synergies or tech that you have discovered?

Quote from Shadowkill

@enemywithin: I love your fan fiction. But I would really like to see your Avacyn deck. Would you mind posting it here or posting a link? If anything are there any synergies or tech that you have discovered?

Sure, I'd be happy to. And thanks, I've been kind of taking a break from the fanfiction to work on an actual novel, but I might get back to it at some point. Here's my list, although some of the cards I haven't actually gotten a chance to play with yet. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. I am trying to find a place for Blinkmoth Nexus, as it can swing with equipment and become a creature at will for Worship shenanigans. I'm also not a 100% sure on Sublime Archangel. She seems good, but I haven't been able to test her yet.

For mana accel I've got 3 mana rocks and 2 mana doublers, and for land search I've got Thawing Glaciers, Land Tax, Endless Horizons, Weathered Wayfarer, Solemn Simulacrum, and Tithe. That's why I'm a little lighter on lands than I might normally be with an 8 mana general, and I have to make sure that I don't get mana screwed, I haven't had a chance to test this. Additional mana rocks could be Mind Stone, Everflowing Chalice, or even Caged Sun. Avacyn also immediately becomes a target when she comes out. Cavern of Souls protects from countermagic, and I've got Greaves, Boots, MoR, Caretaker, and 8.5 Tails to protect her from targeted exile and tucking effects. Valkyrie protects against sacrifice effects, and the swords are more limited in what they protect from, but they can still protect her to an extent.

Sorry about the lack of activity guys, I've been preparing to leave for college and it has been pretty hectic.
I have about 60 more cards to add to the discussion list and I need to update my deck.
I also have some notes from testing that I will hopefully post within the next few days.

@enemywithin: I think I like my current land/mana rock count very much thanks to you.
How is Eternal Dragon?
I have seen people praise it and I have seen people say they hate it. Currently I side with those who dislike it because it seems very mana intensive for what it does and when it is able to do it.
Also, I see you run Mangara of Corondor without a huge ability to abuse him.
Would you consider adding Mimic Vat for shenanigans after killing him with something like Skullclamp.
You can then do many very cruel things like make him and block one attacker and exile another.
There are plenty of other creatures that could take advantage of it in your deck Stoneforge, Solemn, Twilight Shepherd, and Sun Titan.
Not to mention other players' creatures.

Oh and would you mind if I put your list in my second post? I forgot to immediately post to reserve space and I'd like to put up decklists, that people have mentioned in this thread or that I have drawn inspiration from, there. Moving what is currently there of course.

Sure, you can post my list. I'v made a few changes since then, though. I took out the Planeswalkers because they always died immediately and drew hate from the entire table. I seemed to only ever get to use them once before they died. If I had to put one back in, though, I'd put Karn back. I also reduced my Snow-Covered Plains count to 26. I figure I have so many ways of searching them out I can probably afford to run less basics and more utility lands. I don't think I want to go less than 26, though.
-1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
-1 Gideon Jura
-1 Karn Liberated
-1 Catastrophe
-1 Dust Bowl
-1 Sublime Archangel
-2 Snow-Covered Plains

+1 Thran Dynamo
+1 Citanul Flute (so far this really seems to work for this deck, and cheaper to activate than Planar Portal)
+1 All is Dust
+1 Stonecloaker
+1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
+1 Miren, the Moaning Well
+1 Scrying Sheets
+1 Blinkmoth Nexus

I like Eternal Dragon a lot. He's a recurrable creature that fetches you a land early game, comes back late game to beat face, and can be recurred whenever he's killed. You don't have to repeatably recur and cycle him, but you can if you have nothing else to do. He's pretty much become a staple in my deck. As far as Mangara is concerned, he's useful simply as a Vindicate on a stick even without a way to abuse him. But I can abuse him somewhat. I can use his ability, sacrifice him to to either Miren or High Market with his ability on the stack, and then recur him with Valkyrie/Emeria/Sun Titan/SoLaS/Karmic Guide. I can also bounce him to my hand with Stonecloaker in the same fashion.

But I would like to fit Mimic Vat in, I just have trouble figuring out what I can remove for it. Mimic Vat is probably one of those universally good cards that should at least be strongly considered in every deck, I'm just not sure I have room for it. Almost every creature in my deck could be abused with it; Karmic Guide, Magus of the Disk, Mother of Runes/Devoted Caretaker, Stonehewer Giant, Archon of Justice (w/sac engine), Sunblast Angel, in addition to the ones you mentioned. I might consider taking out Stonecloaker...

I have a mimic vat and will probably end up putting it in. It is definitely a very good card even if your deck can't always use it.

Might add mangara too.
I think i'll end up reigning in some of the equipment.

I hope this isn't too necro-y.
I finally feel comfortable with my class schedule to start posting in this thread again. I've updated the card discussion section with a few cards from RTR and updated my current decklist. I have a pretty stable playgroup now and plan on being able to post more actual game related content regarding specific cards, like which stick out as saving me or make me frustrated to draw.
I still haven't gotten around to making a SB but I plan on it in the coming weeks.
I plan on testing three flex slots with weathered wayfayer-Gideon's Avenger, True Conviction & Armageddon-Path to Exile & Swords to Plowshares.

Cheers.

Two questions:

1) What are your experiences with Angelic Arbiter? Really interested on running that card, but not sure if it's worth all the hate it supposedly attracts.

2) Do you think doing a Bant version of this deck with Rafiq at the lead is viable? It would be similar to this one, except featuring some UG for draw and recursion.

1. She is really great late game when people want to start doing tons of things each turn. She is also decent at politics if one person is getting teamed up on.

2. The draw and land fetching would help accelerate the deck a lot and I think it would do really well.