I've been playing EDH for a while now and I always play with the same people. One of them plays the usual combo Sharuum deck (i.e: metamorph+bitter ordeal).
I play Mayael the Anima because I like bashing with big stuff and I think her ability is awesome. Now I'm tired of always losing and I don't know how I can improve my deck to be more competitive and maybe have a chance of wining against those two insane decks.
Other than that I can't think of much. The deck looks really solid. However I still can't imagine it having a strong chance against those broken combo and reanimate decks. It seems to me that Mayael is more of a casual general than anything else. (I get the feeling someone will prove me wrong very soon). Best of luck!
As an experienced Mayael player, I can say that you are playing against cutthroat decks, and that Mayael gets better when there are more people forcing longer games.
Mayael is an awesome deck. I love it and it's my favorite to pilot. Who doesn't love cheating big splashy creatures into play! But a 3 player game facing two degenerate combo decks? Ugh. TBH, that doesn't sound like fun to me at all. Sorry dude. Best bet is to either ask them politely to refrain from playing degenerate combos and make a deck that scales well and is focused on board position, or invest in a control deck yourself to hose them.
This is exactly why I tote around both Mayael and Damia decks.
One is for fun casual games. One is for spiking degenerate combo players.
Other than that I can't think of much. The deck looks really solid. However I still can't imagine it having a strong chance against those broken combo and reanimate decks. It seems to me that Mayael is more of a casual general than anything else. (I get the feeling someone will prove me wrong very soon). Best of luck!
Wow I hadn't realized that Warstorm Surge + Blightsteel is insta kill! Thanks for pointing that out I'll switch them right now
As an experienced Mayael player, I can say that you are playing against cutthroat decks, and that Mayael gets better when there are more people forcing longer games.
Mayael is an awesome deck. I love it and it's my favorite to pilot. Who doesn't love cheating big splashy creatures into play! But a 3 player game facing two degenerate combo decks? Ugh. TBH, that doesn't sound like fun to me at all. Sorry dude. Best bet is to either ask them politely to refrain from playing degenerate combos and make a deck that scales well and is focused on board position, or invest in a control deck yourself to hose them.
This is exactly why I tote around both Mayael and Damia decks.
One is for fun casual games. One is for spiking degenerate combo players.
I tend to agree with you Aeon-Phoenix. I was thinking of making a combo Riku EDH just for those situations, but I had hope that Mayael could be good enough to compete with those decks. I have this strange feeling that Mayael can be so much stronger than she is now, it's just that I don't know how. Maybe you are right, and I should get started building the Riku deck.
I don't think the 7 slots should all be Mayael targets because by experience, it increases the chances of having a starting hand full of uncastable fatties.
I used to run Terastodon and I know how powerful the card is. The problem though is that in my meta, that card backfired more than it helped me because I play against a reanimator Mimeo deck and he likes to use MY creatures more than his Admonition angel is good but I don't like temporary removal (read oblivion ring). Avatar of slaughter is simply BONKERS but I hate giving my opponents any sort of bonus. Again, more of a meta choice
Ulvenwald Tracker, now THAT'S an interesting card. It's going in the deck for some playtesting
I play an extremely degenerate Sharuum deck (thank you Bitterroot), and I agree with Aeon-Phoenix. Your deck is not meant to be played against degenerate decks that combo out turns 2-4. You have a real EDH deck (as in the spirit of the format).
If you do want to stop combo decks, there are several easy ways to do it........
I don't think the 7 slots should all be Mayael targets because by experience, it increases the chances of having a starting hand full of uncastable fatties.
I used to run Terastodon and I know how powerful the card is. The problem though is that in my meta, that card backfired more than it helped me because I play against a reanimator Mimeo deck and he likes to use MY creatures more than his Admonition angel is good but I don't like temporary removal (read oblivion ring). Avatar of slaughter is simply BONKERS but I hate giving my opponents any sort of bonus. Again, more of a meta choice
Ulvenwald Tracker, now THAT'S an interesting card. It's going in the deck for some playtesting
At 15 creatures in your current list, adding 7 would put you at 22 which really is bottom line when calculating percentages. There is a 27% of whiffing on a Mayael activation at 22 creatures, and that number increases by 2% as you work down from 22. The fact that you don't have a Sylvan Library, or any one of the 4 spells that tutor Library really hurts your abilty to filter your top deck. Sure you have a Scroll Rack and a Divining Top which help, but still no way to go find them when needed.
As for starting with too many high cmc creatures, you should be invoking the "Partial Paris" ruling for Mulligans. Description of this rule can be found in the Official Commander Rules at dragonhighlander.net. Wizards, the agency that sanctions this format, defers to these rulings.
Basically, you need to call this at the beginning of every game so you can partial away all your big creatures. Your playgroup reserves the right to protest your calling though, as partial mulligans are sometimes considered to be too friendly to degenerate combos. If they do protest, and citing official rules of the game is overruled by a playgroup consensus, it goes to vote. If the vote is tied, a die roll will determine the motion.
Partial Paris is absolutely how you run Mayael with 22+ high cmc creatures. Do it, and partial away every card with cmc 5 or higher!
So now with RtR, I got new cards for the deck (just three) but once again the deck changed quite a lot due to extensive playtesting.
My newer deck is faster and a lot more resilient to removal and I actually stand a chance now against mimeoplasm but still not sharuum.
This deck is always a work in progress but I feel like I'm getting closer to a deck that can find solutions to most problematic situations without necessarily reducing the deck's overall power.
Once again, feel free to point out if you think there's a card that doesn't belong here or if there's a better alternative.
Also, I'd like to thank everyone on this forum who've been giving me their advice because that's how I keep improving this deck.
P.S.: @Aeon-Phoenix, I managed to make my playgroup accepts the partial paris mulligan
One thing I see in your list that I find a little anti-synergistic is Lighting Greaves. I imagine it occasionally gets in the way of your own Wolf Run, Slayers' Stronghold, Rogue's Passage, or Stonecloaker. Swiftfoot Boots seems a little better in these cases.
Also, I'd be a little concern with only 18 Mayael targets. Whiffing on a Mayael activation sucks. I try to run 22 to make her success percentages decent. I might try to get the number up to at least 20. First thing on the chopping block would be Tormod's Crypt for me. While GY shenanigans are common, it's a little too niche and doesn't advance your game plan. Second would be Savage Twister. If it's a token sweeper, you have a better one that you can tutor for and comes on a big flying body with Scourge of Kher Ridges.
First thing on the chopping block would be Tormod's Crypt for me. .
I think he needs the Crypt.
I'm the one running Sharuum, Mimeo and also a Drana Stacks deck.
We play together almost all the time (and it's not just me, we saw a nice Karador with Loam and ~4 wasteland type of land, and other deck like that).
Normally is Crypt buys him some time. I must either bait it or get my Trickbind/Krosan grip asap. :P. Just my meta 2 cent
One thing I see in your list that I find a little anti-synergistic is Lighting Greaves. I imagine it occasionally gets in the way of your own Wolf Run, Slayers' Stronghold, Rogue's Passage, or Stonecloaker. Swiftfoot Boots seems a little better in these cases.
Also, I'd be a little concern with only 18 Mayael targets. Whiffing on a Mayael activation sucks. I try to run 22 to make her success percentages decent. I might try to get the number up to at least 20. First thing on the chopping block would be Tormod's Crypt for me. While GY shenanigans are common, it's a little too niche and doesn't advance your game plan. Second would be Savage Twister. If it's a token sweeper, you have a better one that you can tutor for and comes on a big flying body with Scourge of Kher Ridges.
I run savage twister simply because it's a board wipe that saves my creatures. Although it's not be the best removal out there, I really like the one-sidedness of it. People have been suggesting Terminus to replace Savage Twister.
If you're facing Mimeo and Sharuum in your play group, perhaps look into Ground Seal. And I don't know what sort of stax engine the Drana player is playing, but most stax I've seen function primarily on artifacts and enchantments (Grave Pact, Smoke Stack, Desolation..) and also utilize prison effects (Winter's Orb, Torpor's Orb, Null Rod..). As such, destroy these buggers. I see you run Woodfall. Terastodon is good, but Sun Titan's buddy Qasali Pridemage has been an mvp for me in similar situations, second only to Aura Shards and playing more efficiently than Slime. Austere Command is a fine answer, but as Mayael players we can't tutor for sorcery spells. If you're looking for more slots to create space, I think Pithing Needle is a little fragile and easy enough to play around/remove.
I run savage twister simply because it's a board wipe that saves my creatures. Although it's not be the best removal out there, I really like the one-sidedness of it. People have been suggesting Terminus to replace Savage Twister.
In the department of one sided sweeps that kill most other creatures but not your own fatties, there's Crater Hellion. Alpha Brawl is another that can sweep just one player. For an emergency table wipe, Blasphemous Act is good in this format, and with Avacyn out your guys survive. I've seen Avatar of Slaughter wreak some havoc on the battlefield as well.
If you're facing Mimeo and Sharuum in your play group, perhaps look into Ground Seal. And I don't know what sort of stax engine the Drana player is playing, but most stax I've seen function primarily on artifacts and enchantments (Grave Pact, Smoke Stack, Desolation..) and also utilize prison effects (Winter's Orb, Torpor's Orb, Null Rod..). As such, destroy these buggers. I see you run Woodfall. Terastodon is good, but Sun Titan's buddy Qasali Pridemage has been an mvp for me in similar situations, second only to Aura Shards and playing more efficiently than Slime. Austere Command is a fine answer, but as Mayael players we can't tutor for sorcery spells. If you're looking for more slots to create space, I think Pithing Needle is a little fragile and easy enough to play around/remove.
In the department of one sided sweeps that kill most other creatures but not your own fatties, there's Crater Hellion. Alpha Brawl is another that can sweep just one player. For an emergency table wipe, Blasphemous Act is good in this format, and with Avacyn out your guys survive. I've seen Avatar of Slaughter wreak some havoc on the battlefield as well.
Just some options.
Terastodon used to be in my main deck but the second it died, it kept coming back but under my friend's control (reanimate, animate dead, mimeo) and he blew up my lands/artifacts/enchantments. It seemed like a better choice to just not run it anymore. Qasali Pridemage is an awesome suggestion, I'll replace Acidic Slime with that.
Oh man I can't wait to get my hands on a Crater Hellion :). It's exactly the kind of stuff this deck needs
The other one plays a Mimeoplasm deck that abuses graveyard with stuff like:
turn 1 hermit druid
turn 2 activates hermit druid and reanimates Jin-gitaxias.
I play Mayael the Anima because I like bashing with big stuff and I think her ability is awesome. Now I'm tired of always losing and I don't know how I can improve my deck to be more competitive and maybe have a chance of wining against those two insane decks.
The Deck:
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons (Protection)
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (Protection)
1 Windbrisk Raptor (Lifelink) (*)
1 Sun Titan (Recursion)
1 Woodfall Primus (Removal)
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges (Removal)
1 Bogardan Hellkite (Removal)
1 Crater Hellion (Removal)
1 Flameblast Dragon (~Removal)(*)
1 Angel of Serenity (Removal)
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (Draw)
1 Eternal Dragon (~Draw)
1 Krosan Tusker (~Draw)(*)
1 Worldspine Wurm
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath (*)
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Hellkite Charger (*)
Removal:
1 Terminus
1 Austere Command
1 Duplicant
1 Acidic Slime (*)
1 Beast Within
1 Aura of Silence
1 Path to Exile (*)
Recursion:
1 Karmic Guide
1 Marshal's Anthem (*)
1 Eternal Witness (*)
1 Hymn of Rebirth
Ramp / Mana Source:
1 Farseek (*)
1 Nature's Lore
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Bloom Tender
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Mana Crypt (*)
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mirari's Wake
Filter / Draw/ Tutor:
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sylvan Library
1 Greater Good (*)
1 Momentous Fall
1 Sylvan Scrying (*)
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Primal Command
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Survival of the Fittest
Utility / Mis:
1 Tormod's Crypt (*)
1 Stonecloaker (*)
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Elvish Piper
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Fires of Yavimaya (*)
1 Warstorm Surge (*)
1 Lurking Predators
Utility:
1 Homeward Path
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Rogue's Passage (*)
1 Strip Mine
1 Winding Canyons
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Boseiju, who Shelters all
1 Arid Mesa
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Brushland
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Grove of the Burnwillows (*)
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Plains
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Plateau
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Note: (*) denotes foils
Change Log:
Pithing Needle -> Crater Hellion
Savage Twister -> Terminus
Blazing Archon -> Angel of Serenity
Solemn Simulacrum -> Lurking Predators
Genesis Wave -> Fauna Shaman
Mountain -> Winding Canyons
Fauna Shaman -> Harmonize
Skyshroud Claim -> Farseek
Sun Titan -> Eternal Dragon
Asceticism -> Krosan Tusker
Soul of the Harvest -> Solemn Simulacrum
Vigor -> Akroma, Angel of Fury
Harmonize -> Survival of the Fittest
Plains -> Horizon Canopy
Conquering Manticore -> Sun Titan
Resurrection -> Hymn of Rebirth
Reflecting Pool -> Boseiju, who Shelters all
Aura Shards -> Aura of Silence
Wish List:
1 Natural Order
UW[STANDARD]Azorius MillUW
Mana Rocks Thread
Other than that I can't think of much. The deck looks really solid. However I still can't imagine it having a strong chance against those broken combo and reanimate decks. It seems to me that Mayael is more of a casual general than anything else. (I get the feeling someone will prove me wrong very soon). Best of luck!
Mayael is an awesome deck. I love it and it's my favorite to pilot. Who doesn't love cheating big splashy creatures into play! But a 3 player game facing two degenerate combo decks? Ugh. TBH, that doesn't sound like fun to me at all. Sorry dude. Best bet is to either ask them politely to refrain from playing degenerate combos and make a deck that scales well and is focused on board position, or invest in a control deck yourself to hose them.
This is exactly why I tote around both Mayael and Damia decks.
One is for fun casual games. One is for spiking degenerate combo players.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Wow I hadn't realized that Warstorm Surge + Blightsteel is insta kill! Thanks for pointing that out I'll switch them right now
I tend to agree with you Aeon-Phoenix. I was thinking of making a combo Riku EDH just for those situations, but I had hope that Mayael could be good enough to compete with those decks. I have this strange feeling that Mayael can be so much stronger than she is now, it's just that I don't know how. Maybe you are right, and I should get started building the Riku deck.
UW[STANDARD]Azorius MillUW
Mana Rocks Thread
In your particular case, I recommend creatures with built in removal:
Terastodon
Admonition Angel
Bogardan Hellkite
Inferno Titan
Stalking Vengeance
Avatar of Slaughter
Magmatic Force
Crater Hellion
Ryusei, the Falling Star
I'd also take a look at Ulvenwald Tracker.
For hosing combo, maybe look at Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Iona, Shield of Emeria too.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Thanks again Aeon for some great suggestion.
I don't think the 7 slots should all be Mayael targets because by experience, it increases the chances of having a starting hand full of uncastable fatties.
I used to run Terastodon and I know how powerful the card is. The problem though is that in my meta, that card backfired more than it helped me because I play against a reanimator Mimeo deck and he likes to use MY creatures more than his
Admonition angel is good but I don't like temporary removal (read oblivion ring).
Avatar of slaughter is simply BONKERS but I hate giving my opponents any sort of bonus. Again, more of a meta choice
Ulvenwald Tracker, now THAT'S an interesting card. It's going in the deck for some playtesting
UW[STANDARD]Azorius MillUW
Mana Rocks Thread
If you do want to stop combo decks, there are several easy ways to do it........
Stranglehold
Rule of Law
Aven Mindcensor
Leonin Arbitor <--not as good as aven
Grafdigger's Cage <-- wrecks Sharuum
Null Rod
Torpor Orb
+ a good variety of graveyard hate.
At 15 creatures in your current list, adding 7 would put you at 22 which really is bottom line when calculating percentages. There is a 27% of whiffing on a Mayael activation at 22 creatures, and that number increases by 2% as you work down from 22. The fact that you don't have a Sylvan Library, or any one of the 4 spells that tutor Library really hurts your abilty to filter your top deck. Sure you have a Scroll Rack and a Divining Top which help, but still no way to go find them when needed.
As for starting with too many high cmc creatures, you should be invoking the "Partial Paris" ruling for Mulligans. Description of this rule can be found in the Official Commander Rules at dragonhighlander.net. Wizards, the agency that sanctions this format, defers to these rulings.
Basically, you need to call this at the beginning of every game so you can partial away all your big creatures. Your playgroup reserves the right to protest your calling though, as partial mulligans are sometimes considered to be too friendly to degenerate combos. If they do protest, and citing official rules of the game is overruled by a playgroup consensus, it goes to vote. If the vote is tied, a die roll will determine the motion.
Partial Paris is absolutely how you run Mayael with 22+ high cmc creatures. Do it, and partial away every card with cmc 5 or higher!
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
My newer deck is faster and a lot more resilient to removal and I actually stand a chance now against mimeoplasm but still not sharuum.
This deck is always a work in progress but I feel like I'm getting closer to a deck that can find solutions to most problematic situations without necessarily reducing the deck's overall power.
Once again, feel free to point out if you think there's a card that doesn't belong here or if there's a better alternative.
Also, I'd like to thank everyone on this forum who've been giving me their advice because that's how I keep improving this deck.
P.S.: @Aeon-Phoenix, I managed to make my playgroup accepts the partial paris mulligan
UW[STANDARD]Azorius MillUW
Mana Rocks Thread
Indeed !
I figured out it would also fix my mana at start lol.
One thing I see in your list that I find a little anti-synergistic is Lighting Greaves. I imagine it occasionally gets in the way of your own Wolf Run, Slayers' Stronghold, Rogue's Passage, or Stonecloaker. Swiftfoot Boots seems a little better in these cases.
Also, I'd be a little concern with only 18 Mayael targets. Whiffing on a Mayael activation sucks. I try to run 22 to make her success percentages decent. I might try to get the number up to at least 20. First thing on the chopping block would be Tormod's Crypt for me. While GY shenanigans are common, it's a little too niche and doesn't advance your game plan. Second would be Savage Twister. If it's a token sweeper, you have a better one that you can tutor for and comes on a big flying body with Scourge of Kher Ridges.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
I think he needs the Crypt.
I'm the one running Sharuum, Mimeo and also a Drana Stacks deck.
We play together almost all the time (and it's not just me, we saw a nice Karador with Loam and ~4 wasteland type of land, and other deck like that).
Normally is Crypt buys him some time. I must either bait it or get my Trickbind/Krosan grip asap. :P. Just my meta 2 cent
In that case, I might add Idyllic Tutor and Sterling Grove to find Rest In Peace!
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Sterling grove + Rest in Peace seems like a better option than Tormod's Crypt. Only reason why I'm reluctant about Rest in Peace is because I can't recur my creatures. But I'll try it and see how it goes
I'll take out Tormod's Crypt for Rest in Peace but I don't know what should go out for Sterling Grove
Thanks for the suggestion trancekat. Jester's cap could hose a Sharuum deck but I don't think it'd be useful against other general.
Lightning greaves has proved to be annoying sometimes so, I'll swap it with swiftfoot boots.
I run savage twister simply because it's a board wipe that saves my creatures. Although it's not be the best removal out there, I really like the one-sidedness of it. People have been suggesting Terminus to replace Savage Twister.
UW[STANDARD]Azorius MillUW
Mana Rocks Thread
If you're facing Mimeo and Sharuum in your play group, perhaps look into Ground Seal. And I don't know what sort of stax engine the Drana player is playing, but most stax I've seen function primarily on artifacts and enchantments (Grave Pact, Smoke Stack, Desolation..) and also utilize prison effects (Winter's Orb, Torpor's Orb, Null Rod..). As such, destroy these buggers. I see you run Woodfall. Terastodon is good, but Sun Titan's buddy Qasali Pridemage has been an mvp for me in similar situations, second only to Aura Shards and playing more efficiently than Slime. Austere Command is a fine answer, but as Mayael players we can't tutor for sorcery spells. If you're looking for more slots to create space, I think Pithing Needle is a little fragile and easy enough to play around/remove.
In the department of one sided sweeps that kill most other creatures but not your own fatties, there's Crater Hellion. Alpha Brawl is another that can sweep just one player. For an emergency table wipe, Blasphemous Act is good in this format, and with Avacyn out your guys survive. I've seen Avatar of Slaughter wreak some havoc on the battlefield as well.
Just some options.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Terastodon used to be in my main deck but the second it died, it kept coming back but under my friend's control (reanimate, animate dead, mimeo) and he blew up my lands/artifacts/enchantments. It seemed like a better choice to just not run it anymore. Qasali Pridemage is an awesome suggestion, I'll replace Acidic Slime with that.
Oh man I can't wait to get my hands on a Crater Hellion :). It's exactly the kind of stuff this deck needs
UW[STANDARD]Azorius MillUW
Mana Rocks Thread