This list uses the MTG Commander banlist - where Worldgorger Dragon is indeed legal!
This is a highly complex deck with two major themes: Combo and Reanimation. There are some choices i'm still not 100% sold on but for the majority of it I am quite happy.
-Solemn Simulacrum
-Coaltion Relic
-Crucible of Worlds
-Swiftfoot Boots
-Control of the Court
-Damnation
-Goblin Lore
-Yawgmoth's Will
-Oblation
-Path to Exile
-Strip Mine
-Wasteland
-Crypt Angel
+Shivan Hellkite
+Miren, the Moaning Well
+Rix Maadi, Deungeon Palace
+Shred Memory
+Silence
+Liliana Ves
+Ajani Vengeant
+Night's Whisper
+Ill-Gotten Gains
+Mox Diamond
+Yosei, the Morning Star
+Fellwar Stone
+Hide//Seek
3.
+Grand Abolisher
+Chrome Mox
+Lotus Petal
+Ancient Tomb
+Flooded Strand
-Miren, the Moaning Well
-Nihil Spellbomb
-Hide // Seek
-Resurrection
-Strip Mine
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Main Kill is Hellkite(either of them) , Secondary kill is Mikokoro (which also happens to help get hellkite) or Angel of Despair. Or the third kill, Piranha Marsh.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Disentomb is in mostly for the synergy it has with stuff like Sneak Attack and of course the General. Recyling an Angel of Despair seems good for a measly one mana. Reclamation is probably better.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
This guy might be too limited (seems you're not that big on digging out demons), but Blood Speaker could be cute. Other limited tutors include idyllic tutor (probably not needed with all of the universal tutors) or weathered wayfarer (finding wincon 2 or wincon 3 (pirana marsh)). I don't really see any of them being necessary, though I could see wayfarer being very helpful.
I might choose miraculous recovery over resurrection. Sure it's one more mana, but it's less color intensive and an instant.
Land Tax also seems nifty here...if you're willing to try to squeeze more basics into your mana base. If not, don't worry about it. But I'm a huge fan of the raw card advantage that machine can generate with scroll rack.
Insidious Dreams could also make a play here, but it feels worse than your "draw 4 discard 3" red spells. Same might be said for Chandra Ablaze.
edit: this definitely looks like one of my favorite kaalia builds already.
Weathered Wayfarer seems particularly wasted with you running 5 basic lands in the entire deck. Any chance you could sort the list by card's purpose rather than card type? I had typed up like 10 suggestions and then realized that they were on the list already D; I don't really think Goblin Lore/Gamble fits at all, as you still haven't included Cruel Tutor. Overall, your list looks pretty solid imo, better than most, though I think you are really light on creatures - to the point that Kaalia almost isn't even worth running as your general.
Land Tax - i originally had it in the deck along with a higher basic count, but then i began adding utility lands on color like shinka and shizo, which i felt were needed. This made the basic count seem silly, so i dropped it.
Blood Speaker - thought about it, but i havent decided if two demons is worth it. Might be just for rune-scarred.
Wayfarer - Knyght, reread it. It's any land, not just basics. That's why it's in.
Miraculous Recovery - This is more of a question of art, sadly. I absolutely love the FNM Art for Resurrection. Silly me and my pet cards.
Insidious Dreams - It could be used if Worldgorger is in my hand or i have reanimate targets in hand. Otherwise, the Red Random Draws are better. I dunno.
Cruel Tutor - No. I hate sorcery speed to the top tutors, the only reason Imperial Seal gets the nod is because it's one mana, meaning i can do it with enouh mana open for removal. Yes, i know i have Scroll Rack in the deck.
RRDs/Gamble - Gamble is less powerful and should probably go, but the two mana draw 4s (technically) are really really good. It digs me 4 (letting me find what i want faster), and if i do discard something like.. say.. worldgorger... i dont actually care. I have plenty of ways to reanimate.
One thing i like about this deck more than playing something like Zur or a Fatty heavy kaalia - Zur pretty much autoloses should he be tucked, while Fatty Kaalia has troubles casting her giant beasts should she get tucked. Most dont provide a way around huge costs (like this build does) I've already successfully won with a tucked Kaalia. Kaalia isn't so much the Focus of the deck as much as a huge bonus. With Kaalia i can do some nasty things (like a complete recovery after a board wipe) but she isn't the entire focus of the deck.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Wayfarer - Knyght, reread it. It's any land, not just basics. That's why it's in.
Cruel Tutor - No. I hate sorcery speed to the top tutors, the only reason Imperial Seal gets the nod is because it's one mana, meaning i can do it with enouh mana open for removal. Yes, i know i have Scroll Rack in the deck.
TTTT's are annoying, but with Scroll Rack, Divining Top, and Mikokoro as ways to draw it, they are less annoying (though still worse). And on Wayfarer, you are absolutely right and now I want one. That card is ridiculous.
I'm still trying to imagine a scenario in which you could realistically combo with Oblivion Ring, but it could happen at some point. At the very least, Oblivion Ring is still decent removal.
Also, not a fan of Orim's Thunder. Great card, but it feels sort of clunky in a combo deck.
EDIT: Journey to Nowhere something. Oblivion Ring the Journey. Play Worldgorger Dragon. Oblivion ring goes, Journey to Nowhere eats the dragon, Oblivion Ring comes back and eats the Journey... super clunky, but with:
Admonition Angel
Oblivion Ring
Journey to Nowhere
Oubliette
Exclusion Ritual
...okay, this is starting to sound bad.
Worldgorger also combos in similar fashion with Faceless Butcher, or any changeling creature with Champion, and the changelings count as angels/demons/dragons. Could that be useful at all?
Even a Combo deck needs removal. What would i do if someone is laughing at me with a Solitary Confinement?
Apart from that, there are occasions when it might be prudent to need to kill one of my own creatures and/or kill my own enchantment (Like with a Yawg's Win in hand) and having something that does both at the same time seems quite good.
Admonition Angel just asks to be wrath'd if i use it the slow way, and if i use it with worldgorger it just seems a bit win-more. I have been thinking of possibly adding Oring (to get removal off of Enlightened Tutor) and i havent yet seen the need for more creature removal in the form of journey. I have other options before i go for one that has the capability to backfire.
Forgive my ability to not see, but what is needed for the WGD combo?
WGD + Animate Dead or Necromancy + something to kill everyone at instant speed or another target in the graveyard.
Would Comet Storm be worth playing as a way to kill your opponents after you go infinite with WGD? It also doubles as a sweeper so its not dead outside of the combo.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Worldgorger and a reanimation aura such as Animate Dead. They flicker in and out continuously. You need an ETB effect (Bogardan Hellkite) or a mana sink (Shivan Hellkite) to win otherwise you'll just draw the game.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Worldgorger in the grave, Animate Dead, Necromancy, or Dance of the Dead in hand (there are other ways to set it up, but this is the easiest and most basic. You will also need a win-con on the field or a way to tutor for it (you will, after all, be getting infinite mana)
Cast one of the enchantments, targeting Worldgorger. He comes in, his ability triggers, exiling all of your things, including the enchantment that brought him back. His leaves play trigger happens on his death, and he returns to do it all again. To stop the infinite loop, just animate something else.
Yes, this combo is easily disrupted by well-timed spot-removal or stifle. Good thing one is almost never used and spot removal is on a decline. It's a moderately successful Vintage combo.
I should probably add more protection in.
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Nath'd x2!
I dont think Comet Storm is worth it. So far, i've not found a need for more than one sweeper and the wincons have been doing just fine... so far.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'd suggest Geth, Lord of Vaults or some sorta of X red creatures that doesn't require tapping.
A
Anger is a good choice if you have any creatures like Latulla to win off.
Shivan Hellkite has been mentioned a couple of times, but I'd like to get your opinion on it. In the example you gave, you happened to have Exhume, Buried Alive, and Imperial Seal for Animate Dead. In other words, it required two reanimation spells to win. However, simply having a Shivan Hellkite in your deck would let you win off of a Buried Alive and a single reanimation spell.
If you can't find the room, it might could replace Bogardan Hellkite straight-up. Once you get Worldgorger going, both are lethal from the hand, and only Shivan is lethal from the grave without additional setup. I guess Bogardan is marginally more useful outside of the combo, but Shivan is much more elegant.
Not a lot that I can add other than Fellwar Stone. I view it as much better than Prismatic Lens. At its worst it will offer you 1 which is identical to Prismatic Lens. At its best you will be able to get some mileage out of it with WBR.
While I don't like putting narrow cards into a deck...Pull from Eternity can help against exile effects.
Shred Memory - Excellent Idea. It directly tutors for my reanimation and i do have a nice variety of 2 cmc spells. Shred Memory Defenitely gets in.
Shivan Hellkite - I think the need for one reanimation spell to win pretty much makes Shivan Hellkite look a lot nicer than Bogardan Hellkite. I will try to find room for it. The Hellkite coming in from Kaalia's trigger is quite powerful and can devastate pesky utility creatures... but you already knew that.
Fellwar Stone - I should probably run both it and Lens. Lens helps facilitate a Kaalia even if i'm stuck on two colors, something fellwar stone cant be guaranteed to do, but the more acceleration the faster i can combo out and win.
Pull from Eternity - I think i'd add other forms of protection (like discard) before i included this backup.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
If you don't mind me saying, I really don't think that Kaalia of the Vast is a good commander for a reanimation deck. The synergy that she has is limited to simply being able to cheat the cards that you would be cheating into play with reanimation spells anyway. If you really wanted to utilize the Worldgorger Dragon combo, Scion of the Ur Dragon would be a much more practical commander. Basically you run him, tutors, and the appropriate dragons then Scion does all the work for you. It is a very competitive deck.
On critiquing your actual deck...
1.) I think for starters you need to ditch Goblin Lore and its more expensive Japanese-based relative Control of the Court. You're taking unnecessary bets on what you are trying to pitch in to your graveyard and chances are that its not going to work - those cards are jank.
Also, I'm not sure I agree with the purpose of all of the cards that return creature cards from your graveyard to your hand. It goes against the whole point of pitching the creatures in the graveyard in the first place. I would rather just see more reanimation spells or things that pitch cards in the graveyard in those spots. Crypt Angel, for example, is a rather mediocre card that forces you to return a Red creature from your hand to your graveyard when it comes into play. This may not seem like anything, but it limits your options while providing a mediocre flyer.
2.) If this is to be a combo or reanimation deck of any sorts, you need more disruption and control. Also, if your idea is to be more of a competitive deck, then you should be focused on that disruption/control element to protect your deck's win condition. I would like to see some discard from black - Hymn to Tourach and Mind Twist would be a good start (replacing the two cards from Point 1).
3.) Just because you are trying to achieve a particular goal or theme doesn't mean you should ignore cards that are just good to run in the colors you are running just to adhere to your theme.
In WBR I would certainly be running Ajani Vengeant, because he adds to your control element and provides an excellent win condition. Liliana Vess should be an auto-include considering she provides both hand disruption and the ability to search for your win conditions. Chandra Ablaze is a thought, considering she allows you to pitch dragons (of which Red is the primary color) into the graveyard for reanimation, and she is really good at getting rid of opponent's hands.
All and all, I think you should reevaluate some of your card choices and adopt a few more practical and function choices rather than adhering to your combo and reanimation theme. In this case, you might even improve upon those themes by adding a few more reasonable card choices.
If you don't mind me saying, I really don't think that Kaalia of the Vast is a good commander for a reanimation deck. The synergy that she has is limited to simply being able to cheat the cards that you would be cheating into play with reanimation spells anyway. If you really wanted to utilize the Worldgorger Dragon combo, Scion of the Ur Dragon would be a much more practical commander. Basically you run him, tutors, and the appropriate dragons then Scion does all the work for you. It is a very competitive deck.
Practical doesnt always mean best choice. Part of the fun of the deck was making a combo that wants blue (Intuition, Thirst for Knowledge, Mystical Tutor, ect) without it. I could have easily gone for Sedris or Scion, the two other logical choices for this deck. But i didn't, because I find Flavor to be a big part of this deck.
On critiquing your actual deck...
1.) I think for starters you need to ditch Goblin Lore and its more expensive Japanese-based relative Control of the Court. You're taking unnecessary bets on what you are trying to pitch in to your graveyard and chances are that its not going to work - those cards are jank.
Jank they might look, but jank they certainly are not. Two mana to dig down four cards gives me an advantage over anyone else playing, even if i discard three really good things, odds are I have replacements or can recur it anyways. These are also nice ways of ditching a hand full of fatties, as has happened twice now. Going back to the Flavor perspective, everytime i cast either one of them, I get complemented on how large my DragonBalls must be...
However, I am certainly not above cutting them if I need to for added protection for a highly disruptible combo.
Also, I'm not sure I agree with the purpose of all of the cards that return creature cards from your graveyard to your hand. It goes against the whole point of pitching the creatures in the graveyard in the first place. I would rather just see more reanimation spells or things that pitch cards in the graveyard in those spots. Crypt Angel, for example, is a rather mediocre card that forces you to return a Red creature from your hand to your graveyard when it comes into play. This may not seem like anything, but it limits your options while providing a mediocre flyer.
Most of them, it's good to be able to cheat them back into play with Kaalia while providing a little something else. Phyrexian Reclamation, for instance, allows me to keep Iona coming back if someone should have an off-color answer to her, or lets he bring back another round of Angel of Despair to kill that Solitary Confinement so i can kill him with the combo.
Crypt Angel, on the other hand, i completely misread. I've been playing it as though it returns it to play, silly me. So far, no one has caught me... but that makes it a hell of a lot worse to me. Pity, i liked the art.
2.) If this is to be a combo or reanimation deck of any sorts, you need more disruption and control. Also, if your idea is to be more of a competitive deck, then you should be focused on that disruption/control element to protect your deck's win condition. I would like to see some discard from black - Hymn to Tourach and Mind Twist would be a good start (replacing the two cards from Point 1).
This is a point I agree with. I have been planning on adding a lot more disruption than i currently have in the deck.
3.) Just because you are trying to achieve a particular goal or theme doesn't mean you should ignore cards that are just good to run in the colors you are running just to adhere to your theme.
In WBR I would certainly be running Ajani Vengeant, because he adds to your control element and provides an excellent win condition. Liliana Vess should be an auto-include considering she provides both hand disruption and the ability to search for your win conditions. Chandra Ablaze is a thought, considering she allows you to pitch dragons (of which Red is the primary color) into the graveyard for reanimation, and she is really good at getting rid of opponent's hands.
I really can't disagree with the planeswalkers, I should probably have looked into them.
Here is a section I am quite familiar with. When i began the deck, I thought to myself "what awesome angels and demons and dragons could i possibly run?" On top of the list was Yosei and Red Akroma. Great cards. So i started to play with them, and found at least the Red Akroma to be completely underwhelming. Sure, she was a nice backup plan in case Worldgorger didnt or couldn't work. But she could only beat in one person at a time, and I had other beasts perfectly capable of the same thing that also contributed to the combo/protection of the combo.
In a multiplayer scenario, some cards that I would run no question in 1v1 (such as spirit and rakroma) get worse and worse as more people are added to the game. I say this, and yet i run Rakdos... Rakroma doesnt do enough for me. I'm not into the traditional "oh, it's a good card, so you need to run it" approach. If it works, i use it. If it doesnt, it doesnt get to play with Kaalia.
I will never run cloak in any of my decks on personal reasons, mostly because everyone else and their mother loves the card here and Pithing Needle on cloak is one of my favorite plays to really annoy them all.
Greaves is already in here.
All and all, I think you should reevaluate some of your card choices and adopt a few more practical and function choices rather than adhering to your combo and reanimation theme. In this case, you might even improve upon those themes by adding a few more reasonable card choices.
Indeed. Thanks for the input.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
This is a highly complex deck with two major themes: Combo and Reanimation. There are some choices i'm still not 100% sold on but for the majority of it I am quite happy.
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creatures - 18
1 Angel of Despair
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Blood Speaker
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Dragon Mage
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Karmic Guide
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Shivan Hellkite
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Enchantments - 6
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Sneak Attack
Artifacts - 14
1 Boros Signet
1 Chrome Mox
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Sunforger
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Buried Alive
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Exhume
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Imperial Seal
1 Living Death
1 Night's Whisper
1 Reanimate
1 Vindicate
1 Wheel of Fortune
Instants - 11
1 Chaos Warp
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Mortify
1 Orim's Thunder
1 Shred Memory
1 Silence
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminate
1 Tithe
1 Vampiric Tutor
Planeswalkers - 2
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Liliana Vess
Lands - 36
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Mountain
1 Piranha Marsh
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Edits:
1.
-Gamble
-Disentomb
+Blood Speaker
+Phyrexian Reclamation
2.
-Solemn Simulacrum
-Coaltion Relic
-Crucible of Worlds
-Swiftfoot Boots
-Control of the Court
-Damnation
-Goblin Lore
-Yawgmoth's Will
-Oblation
-Path to Exile
-Strip Mine
-Wasteland
-Crypt Angel
+Shivan Hellkite
+Miren, the Moaning Well
+Rix Maadi, Deungeon Palace
+Shred Memory
+Silence
+Liliana Ves
+Ajani Vengeant
+Night's Whisper
+Ill-Gotten Gains
+Mox Diamond
+Yosei, the Morning Star
+Fellwar Stone
+Hide//Seek
3.
+Grand Abolisher
+Chrome Mox
+Lotus Petal
+Ancient Tomb
+Flooded Strand
-Miren, the Moaning Well
-Nihil Spellbomb
-Hide // Seek
-Resurrection
-Strip Mine
Thoughts?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I might suggest Sun Titan, as he's useful for recurring your enchantments.
So far, that's been enough to finish off games.
Sun Titan might help.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Eternal Dragon makes a good early game cycle.
Yosei, the Morning Star is great to reanimate.
Scourge of Kher Ridges is one of the most underrated sweepers in the format. May not suit your build entirely, though I think it still fits in.
I'd run Zombify over Disentomb. It's not a great card but it's not abysmal like Disentomb (and after all you do run Resurrection).
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I might choose miraculous recovery over resurrection. Sure it's one more mana, but it's less color intensive and an instant.
Land Tax also seems nifty here...if you're willing to try to squeeze more basics into your mana base. If not, don't worry about it. But I'm a huge fan of the raw card advantage that machine can generate with scroll rack.
Insidious Dreams could also make a play here, but it feels worse than your "draw 4 discard 3" red spells. Same might be said for Chandra Ablaze.
edit: this definitely looks like one of my favorite kaalia builds already.
Trade/Sell me your Demonic Attorney!
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Blood Speaker - thought about it, but i havent decided if two demons is worth it. Might be just for rune-scarred.
Wayfarer - Knyght, reread it. It's any land, not just basics. That's why it's in.
Miraculous Recovery - This is more of a question of art, sadly. I absolutely love the FNM Art for Resurrection. Silly me and my pet cards.
Insidious Dreams - It could be used if Worldgorger is in my hand or i have reanimate targets in hand. Otherwise, the Red Random Draws are better. I dunno.
Cruel Tutor - No. I hate sorcery speed to the top tutors, the only reason Imperial Seal gets the nod is because it's one mana, meaning i can do it with enouh mana open for removal. Yes, i know i have Scroll Rack in the deck.
RRDs/Gamble - Gamble is less powerful and should probably go, but the two mana draw 4s (technically) are really really good. It digs me 4 (letting me find what i want faster), and if i do discard something like.. say.. worldgorger... i dont actually care. I have plenty of ways to reanimate.
One thing i like about this deck more than playing something like Zur or a Fatty heavy kaalia - Zur pretty much autoloses should he be tucked, while Fatty Kaalia has troubles casting her giant beasts should she get tucked. Most dont provide a way around huge costs (like this build does) I've already successfully won with a tucked Kaalia. Kaalia isn't so much the Focus of the deck as much as a huge bonus. With Kaalia i can do some nasty things (like a complete recovery after a board wipe) but she isn't the entire focus of the deck.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
TTTT's are annoying, but with Scroll Rack, Divining Top, and Mikokoro as ways to draw it, they are less annoying (though still worse). And on Wayfarer, you are absolutely right and now I want one. That card is ridiculous.
SELLING A CHAMPS DORAN + LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA + FOIL DARK CONFIDANT
MY TRADE THREAD _/_ ALWAYS OPEN TO TRADING SOMETHING _\_ HAVE A LOOK
Would Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, or Admonition Angel help at all? They could function as removal of course, or somehow help as additional combo pieces with Worldgorger Dragon.
I'm still trying to imagine a scenario in which you could realistically combo with Oblivion Ring, but it could happen at some point. At the very least, Oblivion Ring is still decent removal.
Also, not a fan of Orim's Thunder. Great card, but it feels sort of clunky in a combo deck.
EDIT: Journey to Nowhere something. Oblivion Ring the Journey. Play Worldgorger Dragon. Oblivion ring goes, Journey to Nowhere eats the dragon, Oblivion Ring comes back and eats the Journey... super clunky, but with:
Admonition Angel
Oblivion Ring
Journey to Nowhere
Oubliette
Exclusion Ritual
...okay, this is starting to sound bad.
Worldgorger also combos in similar fashion with Faceless Butcher, or any changeling creature with Champion, and the changelings count as angels/demons/dragons. Could that be useful at all?
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Apart from that, there are occasions when it might be prudent to need to kill one of my own creatures and/or kill my own enchantment (Like with a Yawg's Win in hand) and having something that does both at the same time seems quite good.
Admonition Angel just asks to be wrath'd if i use it the slow way, and if i use it with worldgorger it just seems a bit win-more. I have been thinking of possibly adding Oring (to get removal off of Enlightened Tutor) and i havent yet seen the need for more creature removal in the form of journey. I have other options before i go for one that has the capability to backfire.
Faceless Butcher - probably not. Too clunky.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Good thing WW isn't limited to basic lands then!
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
WGD + Animate Dead or Necromancy + something to kill everyone at instant speed or another target in the graveyard.
Would Comet Storm be worth playing as a way to kill your opponents after you go infinite with WGD? It also doubles as a sweeper so its not dead outside of the combo.
Cast one of the enchantments, targeting Worldgorger. He comes in, his ability triggers, exiling all of your things, including the enchantment that brought him back. His leaves play trigger happens on his death, and he returns to do it all again. To stop the infinite loop, just animate something else.
Yes, this combo is easily disrupted by well-timed spot-removal or stifle. Good thing one is almost never used and spot removal is on a decline. It's a moderately successful Vintage combo.
I should probably add more protection in.
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Nath'd x2!
I dont think Comet Storm is worth it. So far, i've not found a need for more than one sweeper and the wincons have been doing just fine... so far.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Your win con is the combo, yes? How fast have you gotten it online?
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Mostly. It helps to have the kill in hand or on the field, or just having infinite mana can be silly.
My best so far is a turn 3 kill. Admittedly it was a godly hand.
Turn 1, Bloodstained Mire, Crack for Badlands, Sol Ring.
Turn 2, (Draw Exhume) Command Tower, Buried Alive for Worldgorger Dragon and Bogardan Hellkite. Imperial Seal for Animate Dead.
Turn 3, (Draw Animate Dead) Arid Mesa, Crack for Scrubland, Exhume Hellkite, Animate Dead Worldgorger, GG.
Sol Ring tends to do that. It might be warranted to add more fast mana to get more early kills.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
A
Anger is a good choice if you have any creatures like Latulla to win off.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
If you can't find the room, it might could replace Bogardan Hellkite straight-up. Once you get Worldgorger going, both are lethal from the hand, and only Shivan is lethal from the grave without additional setup. I guess Bogardan is marginally more useful outside of the combo, but Shivan is much more elegant.
Thoughts?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
While I don't like putting narrow cards into a deck...Pull from Eternity can help against exile effects.
Overall this is a very cool deck.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Shivan Hellkite - I think the need for one reanimation spell to win pretty much makes Shivan Hellkite look a lot nicer than Bogardan Hellkite. I will try to find room for it. The Hellkite coming in from Kaalia's trigger is quite powerful and can devastate pesky utility creatures... but you already knew that.
Fellwar Stone - I should probably run both it and Lens. Lens helps facilitate a Kaalia even if i'm stuck on two colors, something fellwar stone cant be guaranteed to do, but the more acceleration the faster i can combo out and win.
Pull from Eternity - I think i'd add other forms of protection (like discard) before i included this backup.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
On critiquing your actual deck...
1.) I think for starters you need to ditch Goblin Lore and its more expensive Japanese-based relative Control of the Court. You're taking unnecessary bets on what you are trying to pitch in to your graveyard and chances are that its not going to work - those cards are jank.
Also, I'm not sure I agree with the purpose of all of the cards that return creature cards from your graveyard to your hand. It goes against the whole point of pitching the creatures in the graveyard in the first place. I would rather just see more reanimation spells or things that pitch cards in the graveyard in those spots. Crypt Angel, for example, is a rather mediocre card that forces you to return a Red creature from your hand to your graveyard when it comes into play. This may not seem like anything, but it limits your options while providing a mediocre flyer.
2.) If this is to be a combo or reanimation deck of any sorts, you need more disruption and control. Also, if your idea is to be more of a competitive deck, then you should be focused on that disruption/control element to protect your deck's win condition. I would like to see some discard from black - Hymn to Tourach and Mind Twist would be a good start (replacing the two cards from Point 1).
3.) Just because you are trying to achieve a particular goal or theme doesn't mean you should ignore cards that are just good to run in the colors you are running just to adhere to your theme.
In WBR I would certainly be running Ajani Vengeant, because he adds to your control element and provides an excellent win condition. Liliana Vess should be an auto-include considering she provides both hand disruption and the ability to search for your win conditions. Chandra Ablaze is a thought, considering she allows you to pitch dragons (of which Red is the primary color) into the graveyard for reanimation, and she is really good at getting rid of opponent's hands.
Also, you're not running some of the better //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?page=0&action=advanced&subtype=|[%22Angel%22">|[%22Demon%22]|[%22Dragon%22]"]angel, demon, and dragon cards that you could be, severely limiting your general's utility on the field. Most notably absent are the two incarnations of Akroma, the Kamigawa dragons, and (one of my personal favorites) Spirit of the Night. There are so many choices here, many of which have great come into play abilities, make excellent reanimation targets, and allow your general to get more use on the field then providing colors and looking pretty.
Speaking of Kaalia, she looks really sexy in a Whispersilk Cloak and a nice pair of heels.
All and all, I think you should reevaluate some of your card choices and adopt a few more practical and function choices rather than adhering to your combo and reanimation theme. In this case, you might even improve upon those themes by adding a few more reasonable card choices.
Practical doesnt always mean best choice. Part of the fun of the deck was making a combo that wants blue (Intuition, Thirst for Knowledge, Mystical Tutor, ect) without it. I could have easily gone for Sedris or Scion, the two other logical choices for this deck. But i didn't, because I find Flavor to be a big part of this deck.
Jank they might look, but jank they certainly are not. Two mana to dig down four cards gives me an advantage over anyone else playing, even if i discard three really good things, odds are I have replacements or can recur it anyways. These are also nice ways of ditching a hand full of fatties, as has happened twice now. Going back to the Flavor perspective, everytime i cast either one of them, I get complemented on how large my DragonBalls must be...
However, I am certainly not above cutting them if I need to for added protection for a highly disruptible combo.
Most of them, it's good to be able to cheat them back into play with Kaalia while providing a little something else. Phyrexian Reclamation, for instance, allows me to keep Iona coming back if someone should have an off-color answer to her, or lets he bring back another round of Angel of Despair to kill that Solitary Confinement so i can kill him with the combo.
Crypt Angel, on the other hand, i completely misread. I've been playing it as though it returns it to play, silly me. So far, no one has caught me... but that makes it a hell of a lot worse to me. Pity, i liked the art.
This is a point I agree with. I have been planning on adding a lot more disruption than i currently have in the deck.
I really can't disagree with the planeswalkers, I should probably have looked into them.
Here is a section I am quite familiar with. When i began the deck, I thought to myself "what awesome angels and demons and dragons could i possibly run?" On top of the list was Yosei and Red Akroma. Great cards. So i started to play with them, and found at least the Red Akroma to be completely underwhelming. Sure, she was a nice backup plan in case Worldgorger didnt or couldn't work. But she could only beat in one person at a time, and I had other beasts perfectly capable of the same thing that also contributed to the combo/protection of the combo.
In a multiplayer scenario, some cards that I would run no question in 1v1 (such as spirit and rakroma) get worse and worse as more people are added to the game. I say this, and yet i run Rakdos... Rakroma doesnt do enough for me. I'm not into the traditional "oh, it's a good card, so you need to run it" approach. If it works, i use it. If it doesnt, it doesnt get to play with Kaalia.
I will never run cloak in any of my decks on personal reasons, mostly because everyone else and their mother loves the card here and Pithing Needle on cloak is one of my favorite plays to really annoy them all.
Greaves is already in here.
Indeed. Thanks for the input.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary