MTG Salvation

GAH! I've never played EDH in my 14 years of Magic history, so after my local playgroup had coerced me into building one, after plunking around I decided on Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, much to my friends joy/dismay. So after rummaging through my stock of cards i've come up with what seems to be a pretty good Niv deck. Runs a decent removal and card stealing suite, lots of hand recycling and mill hate, and board control with some infinite combos. THEN i realized that running a deck like that in multiplayer would make me a jerk. I know EDH can be run 1vs1, so I decided to build a sideboard to house the cards that would make my deck degenerate and linear as best i can. So now I have a problem; after throwing cards around and trying to make my deck multiplayer friendly, I have TOO many cards, and I don't know what to remove. any expert advice on what to cut/change/move in-or-out of sideboard?

Quote from RWF_Less

Please put the number of copies infront of each card.

As for the deck, it looks like you're doing a LOT of broken things, with very little counterspell back-up. Have you not had trouble with people trying to stop you?

Fixed. I figured it would link regardless of a number or not.
As for the deck. It originaly was nothing BUT counterspells, board control, card stealing, hand recycling, and broken combos. But I don't want to be kicked from the table for being a degenerate, so I'm trying to revamp it so that it is more multiplayer friendly. We don't play with sideboards, since our playgroup feel sif you have to sideboard in cards to deal with other decks, than the point has been missed, since an EDH is supposed to have a certain amount of "fairness" to it. So my sideboard is ONLY there when we want to be competative, or when someone comes into the shop and wants to have a 1vs1 match. But after trying to revise te deck to make it more political, I now have too many cards, and don't know which i should remove/add/replace to make the deck both function as it is, AND as it needs to when I swap 15 cards to turn the deck into a competative one.

Gilded Lotus, Double Negative, Brainstorm, Ponder, Time Reversal, Kozilek, Smoldering Crater, and Remote Isle are my choices.

Lotus, you have cheaper artifact ramp that is just as effective.
Double Negative, not a lot of instances when you need to counter two spells at once.
Brainstorm and Ponder just are not as good in EDH as they are in constructed play.
Time Reversal, you already have plenty of of this effect.
Kozilek, I'm just not a fan of the big eldrazi to be honest. I'd rather bribery them out of my opponent's deck than try to actually cast them in mine.
You have plenty of lands already so cutting the two mana cycle lands shouldn't effect you too much.

I'd think run the new Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius too.

Cut
Arcanis-very mana dependant.
Signet-there slow and not that great.
Nev disk-slow and you can control enough to not need it I'd think.
Jace-decent here yeah but walkers in edh usually aren't impressive minus tezzeret.
Artifact lands-lots of mass artifact removal in this format and losing lands from that sucks.
Double Negative-as stated not needed.
Hinder-swap for spell crumple with your draw you'll get more value out of it.

Quote from Skyfish

Kozilek, I'm just not a fan of the big eldrazi to be honest. I'd rather bribery them out of my opponent's deck than try to actually cast them in mine.

Niv decks typically use Eldrazi to shuffle their graveyard. I have Ulamog in my mine, but I very rarely, if ever, hard cast Ulamog. He is usually tossed to the graveyard over a Windfall, Wheel, or other effects to shuffle up to prevent graveyard hate. I don't play out of my graveyard, but having access to everything again is huge with Niv.

As for OP, your deck might trying to do too much for Niv. He should be all about synergy, with or without the typical abusive combos. Gilded Drake is nice, but there isn't any synergy in theft with Niv. It relies too much on what your opponent has in play and you'll probably shuffle or discard those pieces away before using them.

- Nevy's Disk. Oblivion Stone is already very solid removal, especially with Academy Ruins.
- Clone/Sakashima. Clones don't give you synergy and depend on what opponents have in play too much.
- Gilded Drake
- Crystal Shard. You'll really only ever bounce your own stuff, but Riptide Laboratory is far more efficient at protecting Niv and all you might need. You'll also still be able to bounce your other wizards.
- Confiscate/Control Magic
- Forbid. You could probably throw Spell Crumple in here instead, I find Forbid too situational, especially early game.
- Time Reversal. Redundant since you have Time Spiral, and you refill opp's hands without untapping like Spiral.
- Ponder. Although Brainstorm is still solid, as it helps with Miracle, like Reforge the Soul and Devastation Tide.
- Starstorm. Try out Blasphemous Act and Devastation Tide for board wipes. All is Dust is especially great, due to having a light amount of permanents.
- Riptide Shapeshifter. It just feels out of place in Niv and very slow/expensive.
- Wild Ricochet or Twincast. Maybe Increasing Vengeance here instead? Radiate could also be fun, but both are pretty mana intensive.

Cards I'd recommend are Thought Reflection, Future Sight, and 0 drop rocks like Lotus Petal and Mox Opal. I disagree about Signets being slow, due to the amount of non-basics you're running. They're for mana fixing, like your Bluffs. Turn one Sol Ring into a Signet is fun.

You have a solid list and beautiful mana base.

One signet will rarley be out t1 lol

One thing, make your SB just ten cards and you could try including wishes, Burning Wish or Cunning Wish for additional access and sculpt SB around it.

Jace seems questionable, perhaps try Reforge the Soul instead to increase redundancy.

Quote from lokonopa

Niv decks typically use Eldrazi to shuffle their graveyard. I have Ulamog in my mine, but I very rarely, if ever, hard cast Ulamog. He is usually tossed to the graveyard over a Windfall, Wheel, or other effects to shuffle up to prevent graveyard hate. I don't play out of my graveyard, but having access to everything again is huge with Niv.

As for OP, your deck might trying to do too much for Niv. He should be all about synergy, with or without the typical abusive combos. Gilded Drake is nice, but there isn't any synergy in theft with Niv. It relies too much on what your opponent has in play and you'll probably shuffle or discard those pieces away before using them.

- Nevy's Disk. Oblivion Stone is already very solid removal, especially with Academy Ruins.
- Clone/Sakashima. Clones don't give you synergy and depend on what opponents have in play too much.
- Gilded Drake
- Crystal Shard. You'll really only ever bounce your own stuff, but Riptide Laboratory is far more efficient at protecting Niv and all you might need. You'll also still be able to bounce your other wizards.
- Confiscate/Control Magic
- Forbid. You could probably throw Spell Crumple in here instead, I find Forbid too situational, especially early game.
- Time Reversal. Redundant since you have Time Spiral, and you refill opp's hands without untapping like Spiral.
- Ponder. Although Brainstorm is still solid, as it helps with Miracle, like Reforge the Soul and Devastation Tide.
- Starstorm. Try out Blasphemous Act and Devastation Tide for board wipes. All is Dust is especially great, due to having a light amount of permanents.
- Riptide Shapeshifter. It just feels out of place in Niv and very slow/expensive.
- Wild Ricochet or Twincast. Maybe Increasing Vengeance here instead? Radiate could also be fun, but both are pretty mana intensive.

Cards I'd recommend are Thought Reflection, Future Sight, and 0 drop rocks like Lotus Petal and Mox Opal. I disagree about Signets being slow, due to the amount of non-basics you're running. They're for mana fixing, like your Bluffs. Turn one Sol Ring into a Signet is fun.

You have a solid list and beautiful mana base.

Thanks to everyone for the input so far, both above and below this post. I'm just using it as it is the most thorough. I have personally never played an EDH deck of my own. At the time of the original post I had NEVER played, and have since played with a few of my friends decks. I agree that I may be trying to do too much, but my falling out comes from two fronts: first, I agree 100% with you about utilizing Niv's synergy with card draw. However, Niv won't always be out. After playing a few games, I noticed that much of the time with decks running 5+ CMC commanders, a good portion of the game they will be killed quick, or prevented for enough turns that when the commander can get going, it's too late. So part of this deck is attempting to run WITHOUT the need for Niv. That may be the problem, but that's why I run cards like control magic and gilded drake. Secondly, I need the deck to work well without being a degenerate deck that gets hated off the table for being no fun. Winning is nice, but if your opponents/friends can't enjoy the face beating, then the deck is a bit too competitive. My hope was to use my sideboard only in the event that someone WANTS to have a competitive multiplayer or 1 on 1. then i can sub in all the degenerate cards/combos and extra redundancy. I'm looking into that idea of using the wishes. good idea down there.:cool2:

revision so far:

MORE revisions/additions. I'm so friggin horrible at this, at this rate i might as well toss in Battle of Wits

The list so far:

• Commander: (1)
  
• 1 Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
  
• PlanesWalkers: (2)
  
• 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
  
• 1 Tezzeret, The Seeker
  
• Artifacts: (9)
  
• 1 Coalition Relic
  
• 1 Gilded Lotus
  
• 1 Izzet Signet
  
• 1 Nevinryyal's Disk
  
• 1 Oblivion Stone
  
• 1 Sculpting Steel
  
• 1 Sensei's Divining Top
  
• 1 sol ring
  
• 1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
  
• Enchantments: (7)
  
• 1 Confiscate
  
• 1 Control Magic
  
• 1 Copy Artifact
  
• 1 Dream Halls
  
• 1 Mindmoil
  
• 1 Rhystic Study
  
• 1 Treachery
  
• Instants/Counter: (15)
  
• 1 Arcane Denial
  
• 1 Counterspell
  
• 1 Cryptic Command
  
• 1 Desertion
  
• 1 Dissipate
  
• 1 Dream Fracture
  
• 1 Forbid
  
• 1 Force of Will
  
• 1 Hinder
  
• 1 Mana Drain
  
• 1 Pact of Negation
  
• 1 Remand
  
• 1 Spell Crumple
  
• 1 Stifle
  
• 1 Trickbind
  
• Instants: (14)
  
• 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
  
• 1 Brainstorm
  
• 1 Capsize
  
• 1 Chaos Warp
  
• 1 Cunning Wish
  
• 1 Mystical Tutor
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Reverberate
  
• 1 Shattering Pulse
  
• 1 Starstorm
  
• 1 Swerve
  
• 1 Tolarian Winds
  
• 1 Twincast
  
• 1 Wild Ricochet
  
• Sorcery: (14)
  
• 1 Acquire
  
• 1 Bribery
  
• 1 Burning Wish
  
• 1 Merchant Scroll
  
• 1 Personal Tutor
  
• 1 Ponder
  
• 1 Telemin Performance
  
• 1 Temporal Mastery
  
• 1 Time Spiral
  
• 1 Time Warp
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  
• 1 Wheel of Fortune
  
• 1 Windfall
  
• 1 Winds of Change
  
• Creature: (14)
  
• 1 Arcanis The Omnipotent
  
• 1 Consecrated Sphinx
  
• 1 Gilded Drake
  
• 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
  
• 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
  
• 1 Riptide Shapeshifter
  
• 1 Sakashima The Impostor
  
• 1 Snapcaster Mage
  
• 1 Spellskite
  
• 1 Trinket Mage
  
• 1 Vendilion Clique
  
• 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
  
• 1 Whirlpool Warrior
  
• 1 Willbender
  
• Land: (38)
  
• 1 Academy Ruins
  
• 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
  
• 1 Cascade Bluffs
  
• 1 Cephalid Coliseum
  
• 1 Command Tower
  
• 1 Evolving Wilds
  
• 1 Forgotten Cave
  
• 1 Ghost Quarter
  
• 1 Great Furnace
  
• 1 Izzet Boilerworks
  
• 1 Lonely Sandbar
  
• 1 Mikokoro, Center of The Sea
  
• 1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
  
• 1 Oboro, Palace in The Clouds
  
• 1 Remote Isle
  
• 1 Riptide Laboritory
  
• 1 Scalding Tarn
  
• 1 Steam Vents
  
• 1 Shivan Reef
  
• 1 Strip Mine
  
• 1 Seat of The Synod
  
• 1 Shinka, The Bloodsoaked Keep
  
• 1 Smoldering Crater
  
• 1 Sulfer Falls
  
• 1 Temple of the False God
  
• 1 Terramorphic Expanse
  
• 1 Thawing Glaciers
  
• 1 Tolaria West
  
• 1 Vesuva
  
• 1 Volcanic Island
  
• 4 Island
  
• 4 Mountain
  
• Sideboard: (15)
  
• 1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
  
• 1 Ophidian Eye
  
• 1 Curiosity
  
• 1 Pestermite
  
• 1 Splinter Twin
  
• 1 Deciever Exarch
  
• 1 Skullclamp
  
• 1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
  
• 1 Clout of the Dominus
  
• 1 Mind Over Matter
  
• 1 Tunnel Vision
  
• 1 Drift of Phantasms
  
• 1 Quicksilver Dagger
  
• 1 Pemmin's Aura
  
• 1 Charisma

I would drop all the clones except for Phyrexian metamorph as he can hit sweet artifacts like puzzle box. The steal stuff sub theme is taking a ton of slots, it is probably more efficient just to run board wipes as it would free up some slots. Switch up the couterspells that let your opponents draw cards to stuff like Farie trickery (I see you have some but more is nice). Of the Copy/redirect effects is would only keep Wild Ricochet and reiterate. I second the cutting of arcanis he is draws a ton of cards but is way less efficent then Consecrated Sphinx. The time magic cards is a lot are you sure you need that many? If you want to take all the turns then run Izzet Chronarch and its ilk along with ripted laboratory and crystal shard.

okay. Dropped Arcanis the Omnipotent, Confiscate, and Swerve. Added Crystal Shard.

• Commander: (1)
  
• 1 Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
  
• PlanesWalkers: (2)
  
• 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
  
• 1 Tezzeret, The Seeker
  
• Artifacts: (10)
  
• 1 Chrystal Shard
  
• 1 Coalition Relic
  
• 1 Gilded Lotus
  
• 1 Izzet Signet
  
• 1 Nevinryyal's Disk
  
• 1 Oblivion Stone
  
• 1 Sculpting Steel
  
• 1 Sensei's Divining Top
  
• 1 sol ring
  
• 1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
  
• Enchantments: (6)
  
• 1 Control Magic
  
• 1 Copy Artifact
  
• 1 Dream Halls
  
• 1 Mindmoil
  
• 1 Rhystic Study
  
• 1 Treachery
  
• Instants/Counter: (15)
  
• 1 Arcane Denial
  
• 1 Counterspell
  
• 1 Cryptic Command
  
• 1 Desertion
  
• 1 Dissipate
  
• 1 Dream Fracture
  
• 1 Forbid
  
• 1 Force of Will
  
• 1 Hinder
  
• 1 Mana Drain
  
• 1 Pact of Negation
  
• 1 Remand
  
• 1 Spell Crumple
  
• 1 Stifle
  
• 1 Trickbind
  
• Instants: (13)
  
• 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
  
• 1 Brainstorm
  
• 1 Capsize
  
• 1 Chaos Warp
  
• 1 Cunning Wish
  
• 1 Mystical Tutor
  
• 1 Redirect
  
• 1 Reverberate
  
• 1 Shattering Pulse
  
• 1 Starstorm
  
• 1 Tolarian Winds
  
• 1 Twincast
  
• 1 Wild Ricochet
  
• Sorcery: (14)
  
• 1 Acquire
  
• 1 Bribery
  
• 1 Burning Wish
  
• 1 Merchant Scroll
  
• 1 Personal Tutor
  
• 1 Ponder
  
• 1 Telemin Performance
  
• 1 Temporal Mastery
  
• 1 Time Spiral
  
• 1 Time Warp
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  
• 1 Wheel of Fortune
  
• 1 Windfall
  
• 1 Winds of Change
  
• Creature: (13)
  
• 1 Consecrated Sphinx
  
• 1 Gilded Drake
  
• 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
  
• 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
  
• 1 Riptide Shapeshifter
  
• 1 Sakashima The Impostor
  
• 1 Snapcaster Mage
  
• 1 Spellskite
  
• 1 Trinket Mage
  
• 1 Vendilion Clique
  
• 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
  
• 1 Whirlpool Warrior
  
• 1 Willbender
  
• Land: (38)
  
• 1 Academy Ruins
  
• 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
  
• 1 Cascade Bluffs
  
• 1 Cephalid Coliseum
  
• 1 Command Tower
  
• 1 Evolving Wilds
  
• 1 Forgotten Cave
  
• 1 Ghost Quarter
  
• 1 Great Furnace
  
• 1 Izzet Boilerworks
  
• 1 Lonely Sandbar
  
• 1 Mikokoro, Center of The Sea
  
• 1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
  
• 1 Oboro, Palace in The Clouds
  
• 1 Remote Isle
  
• 1 Riptide Laboritory
  
• 1 Scalding Tarn
  
• 1 Steam Vents
  
• 1 Shivan Reef
  
• 1 Strip Mine
  
• 1 Seat of The Synod
  
• 1 Shinka, The Bloodsoaked Keep
  
• 1 Smoldering Crater
  
• 1 Sulfer Falls
  
• 1 Temple of the False God
  
• 1 Terramorphic Expanse
  
• 1 Thawing Glaciers
  
• 1 Tolaria West
  
• 1 Vesuva
  
• 1 Volcanic Island
  
• 4 Island
  
• 4 Mountain
  
• Sideboard: (15)
  
• 1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
  
• 1 Ophidian Eye
  
• 1 Curiosity
  
• 1 Pestermite
  
• 1 Splinter Twin
  
• 1 Deciever Exarch
  
• 1 Skullclamp
  
• 1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
  
• 1 Clout of the Dominus
  
• 1 Mind Over Matter
  
• 1 Tunnel Vision
  
• 1 Drift of Phantasms
  
• 1 Quicksilver Dagger
  
• 1 Pemmin's Aura
  
• 1 Charisma

Okay, after exstensive fiddling and suck it the f up-ing, the deck is now:



For a sweeping total of 94 cards. However, now the elephant in the room is that i need six more, plus since I'm running wishes, I need a sideboard that can reflect that, WHILE still maintaining the previous rule of keeping the deck friendly/fair, but having a sideboard option to swap in/wish at to turn it into a competative deck. Some of the cards i left out are:

• Artifacts: (6)
  
• 1 Aether Spellbomb
  
• 1 Basilisk Collar
  
• 1 Isochron Scepter
  
• 1 Mana Vault
  
• 1 Nevinryyal's Disk
  
• 1 Thran Dynamo
  
• 1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
  
• Instants/Counter: (3)
  
• 1 Remand
  
• 1 Spell Crumple
  
• 1 Trickbind
  
• Instants: (5)
  
• 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
  
• 1 Repeal
  
• 1 Volcanic Fallout
  
• 1 Reverberate
  
• 1 Shattering Pulse
  
• Sorcery: (7)
  
• 1 Merchant Scroll
  
• 1 Molten Psyche
  
• 1 Telemin Performance
  
• 1 Temporal Mastery
  
• 1 Time Warp
  
• 1 Pyroclasm
  
• 1 Rite of Replication
  
• 1 Windfall
  
• Creature: (2)
  
• 1 Psychosis Crawler
  
• 1 Sakashima The Impostor
  
• 1 Spellskite
  
• Other Cards to Throw Around: (7)
  
• 1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
  
• 1 Pestermite
  
• 1 Splinter Twin
  
• 1 Deceiver Exarch
  
• 1 Skullclamp
  
• 1 Drift of Phantasms
  
• 1 Charisma

Any ideas? or anything i should add/change?

Okay, Now I'm left with ONE card to take out. Anyone want to take a stab at it?