- This is my attempt of making a Stax deck that doesn't contain blue and so far, it's been great. This is my take on Lyzolda Stax and I'f to see what everyone thinks of my creation.
- All comments are appreciate.
This looks pretty powerful actually. mindslicer would be a decent sac/hate card. What do you think of dragonmaster outcast? Maybe not good when you're blowing up lands. Pawn of Ulamog is a good multipurpose token maker benefits from creatures dying ad gives you mana.
This looks pretty powerful actually. mindslicer would be a decent sac/hate card. What do you think of dragonmaster outcast? Maybe not good when you're blowing up lands. Pawn of Ulamog is a good multipurpose token maker benefits from creatures dying ad gives you mana.
I've done some testing and I'm happy with the results. I don't miss my land drops, my reliance on artifact mana isn't as great, and the draws are smooth.
Hmm, Mindslicer is great card. I've had great experiences and results with/against it in 60-card casual
I'm not sure about Dragonmaster Outcast, it's an amazing 1 drop if I were running that build for example; RUG or Jund.
Wow, I totally forgot about Pawn of Ulamog. I forget about how tech un-commons are sometimes, I'm so stuck on cramming Bitterblossom and Goblin Assault in every BR. I will need to test it if I can make space.
The best card that I've never played in the past is Mind Slash. Initially, I thought it was terrible because it's sorcery speed ability, but I misread it, it can hit any cards which means lands. After some test games, after the lands get destroy, Squee provides for perfect sacirifice fodder for it that recurs itself. :).
I am considering new cards because I might need secret deck tech against my playgroup. But before I do, I'd like to hear your logic behind me adding sub-pars that might work in your playgroup, but I'm sure it's effectiveness will be diminished in mine.
I'm not totally disregarding your comments, but I want you to convince me why it's good.
Simply posting links of cards will not convince of adding new cards, please try harder next time.
If your plan is STAX, I can acknowledge playing Rakka Mar. It makes tokens to feed your STAX effects, and she has haste so she can do it right away. Bloodghast can fall into this category as well, and even works rather effectively with Skullclamp, and Mind Slash.
If your plan is STAX, I can acknowledge playing Rakka Mar. It makes tokens to feed your STAX effects, and she has haste so she can do it right away. Bloodghast can fall into this category as well, and even works rather effectively with Skullclamp, and Mind Slash.
Just my two cents.
I might consider Rakka Mar since it does creates tokens to feed various Stax engines. Haste is always a nice ability to have. I'll test it out if I make space for it.
I don't run Bloodgast because of Grafdigger's Cage. It shows up on turn 1/2 in most my games. It's awesome!
I'll try out Void eventually. I still need to sleeve this deck instead of just testing on programs. Real games feel better than computer generated games. Real people actually make it tougher for me to change my train of thought.
It's just expensive removal to me, but I guess it's worth a shot since it hits their lands.
I will see if any new cards make my decks, but most the time, Kevin, they don't. Not even Consecrated Sphinx is good enough for Sharuum.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder doesn't seem to necessarily fit in your deck but I loved him in my Rakdos deck. Still, if you're sacing and recurring Squee frequently that is a lot of free tokens.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder doesn't seem to necessarily fit in your deck but I loved him in my Rakdos deck. Still, if you're sacing and recurring Squee frequently that is a lot of free tokens.
Awesome card still, but I only have what, 7 creatures including Rakdos, so he isn't no effective in my list.
I run almost creature-less Stax decks, creatures just die to cards like Torpor Orb, Humility, Night of Souls' Betrayal, etc.
They are too vulnerable to me.
After making/playing so many control decks; I've learned only random hate bears and utility creatures survive since apparently creatures over 3 power on my side of the board, just flat out die.
I'm so glad people are using "terrible" generals instead of the more popular ones like what I use. At least I use them in a different way, I despise general-centric decks, they've are too risky for me. The more dependent, the worse your deck performs overall. But, I totally understand that people have different play-styles.
Not sure if that's a typo or not, but Void certainly does not hit lands(it has that non-land clause on it).
Typo
*Hands.
I misread the card, whoops. 6 mana just seems expensive for decent removal.
I mean if I want to deal with tokens, I could use Ratchet Bomb or Engineered Explosives since most the threatening permanents to me sit at 0,1,2 cmc.
I might be able to test this deck this weekend with Galspanic and crew. I hope it works out like the results I got from testing.
I just built rakdos recently have you consider of using creatures with persist or undying because it gives you a higher permanents count when sacing to rakdos trigger, also cards like suspend are good since your mana base is cut in half after first attack.
I like ichor wellsping and mycosynth wellsping same for smokestax
I misread the card, whoops. 6 mana just seems expensive for decent removal.
I mean if I want to deal with tokens, I could use Ratchet Bomb or Engineered Explosives since most the threatening permanents to me sit at 0,1,2 cmc.
I might be able to test this deck this weekend with Galspanic and crew. I hope it works out like the results I got from testing.
Five mana, but yes, I understand what you are saying. It does have it's uses though.
You don't need the wellsprings with your various baubles and spellbombs. You have enough draw.
I wondered at first at Goblin Matron in here. It's a good example of your deckbuilding which always makes me think. You want Squee or Welder, and the Matron is one less than Diabolic Tutor. I think maybe your drive for CMC efficiency might be at the cost of flexibility here though. If you've already gone through Squee or Welder, Matron is a dead draw (aside from swinging for 1, yeah I know). I might go for the extra mana cost and replace Matron with Diabolic Tutor, or even Beseech the Queen which you'll likely be able to play BBB for and have enough lands to get Squee. Then you can use Beseech the Queen for something else later on.
Matron though makes me think of Kiki-Jiki, who you know is decent with Duplicant and can make more Matrons to find the other two goblins. I doubt you want to go that route though as you don't run enough creatures to make Kiki-Jiki worthwhile.
I also have to smile at your longtime love of Bob... yeah he's good in your EDH decks, but just pay 2 more for Graveborn Muse already. Or 3 more for Bloodgift Demon. Bloodgift Demon even counts against your Rakdos total. I know you won't, you like your low mana curve, but I gotta say it.
You don't need the wellsprings with your various baubles and spellbombs. You have enough draw.
I wondered at first at Goblin Matron in here. It's a good example of your deckbuilding which always makes me think. You want Squee or Welder, and the Matron is one less than Diabolic Tutor. I think maybe your drive for CMC efficiency might be at the cost of flexibility here though. If you've already gone through Squee or Welder, Matron is a dead draw (aside from swinging for 1, yeah I know). I might go for the extra mana cost and replace Matron with Diabolic Tutor, or even Beseech the Queen which you'll likely be able to play BBB for and have enough lands to get Squee. Then you can use Beseech the Queen for something else later on.
Matron though makes me think of Kiki-Jiki, who you know is decent with Duplicant and can make more Matrons to find the other two goblins. I doubt you want to go that route though as you don't run enough creatures to make Kiki-Jiki worthwhile.
I also have to smile at your longtime love of Bob... yeah he's good in your EDH decks, but just pay 2 more for Graveborn Muse already. Or 3 more for Bloodgift Demon. Bloodgift Demon even counts against your Rakdos total. I know you won't, you like your low mana curve, but I gotta say it.
To be honest, I'm not sure why I have Goblin Matron in here. Yes, it's a dead draw after Goblin Welder and Squee are gone, but I just like having it. I do want try more goblins than those two. I just can't think of any right now.
Maybe...Krenko, new Goblin legend, Goblin Sharpshooter (for token removal). I love goblins, but it's hard for me to add more than a few goblin cards in all of my decks. I use to have a my typical goblin package in all my EDH decks with red/black, but now it seems lacking.
I'd never cut Dark Confidant out of any of my decks, but I might run Graveborn Muse because I see how good she is for everyone else. I need another creature to hold a sword of X and Y for the early game. I'm just not a fan of Bloodgift Demon; certain cards just don't work with me, I grew up with my Dark Confidant, my play-style adjusted for this card.
I always try to run new cards, but they never seem to impress me to gain a permanent deck slot. I don't like change in magic as you can tell. I'm still using cards printed in the early years of magic instead of better new standard cards. I know Go for the Throat is better than Dark Banishing, but I still don't use it.
Would Grave Titan be any good in here? Or is the cmc too high?
I need to try new cards, so it might.
I want to make space for Honden of Night's Reach and Honden of Infinite Rage. I'm a fan of enchantments that have incremental card advantage with no future investment.
1/1 tokens equipped with a Sword of X and Y have killed me plenty of time. So, Honden of Infinite will delay the Bitterblossom assault which is the most potent type of aggro.
Do you think any new cards from M13 make the cut or is my list already too tight for adjustment?
Changes
- Goblin Matron
- Dragonskull Summir
I'm looking into building Rakdos myself and having used Shivan Harvest in other decks, it seems like it would fit perfectly in a stax-ish deck where keeping your opponent off land makes Rakdos hit them even harder. Obviously particularly brutal with B. Blossom or G. Assault out.
Maybe I have had less luck with Braids and Smokestack than you, but they have almost never done anything for me. On the surface, they seem broken, but in reality, they are not very good in a format where you can't run 4 of each. They're a completely dead draw later in the game, such that I always end up taking both out for something that gives my deck more resiliency or utility. Sure they're strong effects, but if you can't get them out turn 2/3 consistently, they're honestly very lackluster.
A dedicated stax build in general doesn't seem very viable. Yes, black has plenty of tutors but that doesn't actually provide additional smokestacks, which is where stax REAL power comes from; having 2-3 out and lets be honest, Braids is just a bad stack.
I would personally go for a more resilient, grindy-control approach, and as I saw you added reclamation, you're probably realizing this too. It's far easier to build up redundant resiliency rather than gimmicky stax.
Edit: Also, Pox seems like an auto-include in a b/x stax deck, if you must force the stax theme. With enough mana rocks, you can make it very one-sided.
I'm looking into building Rakdos myself and having used Shivan Harvest in other decks, it seems like it would fit perfectly in a stax-ish deck where keeping your opponent off land makes Rakdos hit them even harder. Obviously particularly brutal with B. Blossom or G. Assault out.
Maybe I have had less luck with Braids and Smokestack than you, but they have almost never done anything for me. On the surface, they seem broken, but in reality, they are not very good in a format where you can't run 4 of each. They're a completely dead draw later in the game, such that I always end up taking both out for something that gives my deck more resiliency or utility. Sure they're strong effects, but if you can't get them out turn 2/3 consistently, they're honestly very lackluster.
A dedicated stax build in general doesn't seem very viable. Yes, black has plenty of tutors but that doesn't actually provide additional smokestacks, which is where stax REAL power comes from; having 2-3 out and lets be honest, Braids is just a bad stack.
I would personally go for a more resilient, grindy-control approach, and as I saw you added reclamation, you're probably realizing this too. It's far easier to build up redundant resiliency rather than gimmicky stax.
Edit: Also, Pox seems like an auto-include in a b/x stax deck, if you must force the stax theme. With enough mana rocks, you can make it very one-sided.
You made some good points, but it all comes down to perspective. Braids and Smokestack are timing card just like any counterspells. Just because it's not out turn 2/3, it doesn't mean its garbage as many on here have said.
Are they talking about Vintage Workshop or Legacy Stax? Seriously, this isn't Type 1 or 1.5, come on people.
Braids is amazing, she has an immediate effective the turn she comes out unlike Smokestack and her being a creature that can hit for 2 on occasion makes her even better in my opinion.
If you want to have more success with Somestack or Braids, Cabal Minion; play more board or land wipes in your decks that include B/R/x because that's where they really shine.
The best plays I've made with either of those two cards were after a Jokulhaups or Devastation. The game was locked up after I resolved them because I kept a few mana rocks in my hand, and one of my many token production permanents were already in play.
Here's the trick you really need to practice before you preach. Don't over extend too much with Stax and always have few mana sources, playable cards after your Armageddon-ish card you're about to cast.
I use to go all-in a while back, but I've learned to be more conservative with my plays.
I think I'm going to test out Liliana of the Dark Realms in this deck as well, I do have enough swamps to make her good even in dual colours. I would think 12 swamps in the list is more than enough to make her +1 ability relevant. She'd honestly just be another engine to recover after a board wipe.
Edit: I've iffy about Pox, I'd rather play Death Cloud honestly since I do run a few Planeswalker in here, so they might just get there. I've had great success with Sarkhan the Mad and Liliana of the Veil in my various control decks. They are cards you might want to consider after testing for a few weeks.
Is this deck designed more for 1v1 or multiplayer play? Online or IRL? "Stax" is about as offensive politically as you can get, so I can't help but think that if you play this IRL, that you would get hated off the table pretty much every game.
- All comments are appreciate.
1x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Stax
- Land destruction
1x Death Cloud
1x Desolation
1x Devastation
1x Obliterate
1x Ruination
- Protection
1x Guardian Beast
1x Witchbane Orb
- Hondens
1x Honden of Infinite Rage
1x Honden of Night's Reach
- Tax
1x Trinisphere
1x Nether Void
- Lock Out
1x Braids, Cabal Minion
1x Blood Moon
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Smokestack
1x Torpor Orb
- Token Production
1x Bitterblossom
1x Goblin Assault
1x Trading Post
Draw/Tutors
1x Dark Confidant
1x Dark Tutelage
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Goblin Matron
1x Liliana of the Dark Realms
1x Necropotence
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Sarkhan the Mad
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Grim Monolith
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Opal
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
Removal
1x Chandra, the Firebrand
1x Damnation
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Goblin Welder
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Rack and Ruin
1x Shattering Pulse
1x Viashino Heretic
1x Volcanic Fallout
Recursion
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Salvaging Station
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
Utility
- Graveyard Hate
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Phyrexian Furnace
1x Scrabbling Claws
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Conjurer's Bauble
1x Druidic Satchel
1x Necrogen Spellbomb
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
Lands
- Utility
1x Dust Bowl
1x High Market
1x Inkmoth Nexus (In place of Mutavault)
1x Kher Keep
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Strip Mine
1x Wasteland
- Fetches
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Polluted Delta
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Graven Cairns
9x Mountain
10x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I've done some testing and I'm happy with the results. I don't miss my land drops, my reliance on artifact mana isn't as great, and the draws are smooth.
Scrying Sheets seems to hit about 50% without top, and with Sensei's Divining Top, it's almost 100%.
Hmm, Mindslicer is great card. I've had great experiences and results with/against it in 60-card casual
I'm not sure about Dragonmaster Outcast, it's an amazing 1 drop if I were running that build for example; RUG or Jund.
Wow, I totally forgot about Pawn of Ulamog. I forget about how tech un-commons are sometimes, I'm so stuck on cramming Bitterblossom and Goblin Assault in every BR. I will need to test it if I can make space.
The best card that I've never played in the past is Mind Slash. Initially, I thought it was terrible because it's sorcery speed ability, but I misread it, it can hit any cards which means lands. After some test games, after the lands get destroy, Squee provides for perfect sacirifice fodder for it that recurs itself. :).
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
How is that an upgrade? It costs five, Arena costs 3.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Anger
balthor the defiled
bloodghast
emrakul's hatcher
kazuul, tyrant of the cliffs
rakka mar
I'm not totally disregarding your comments, but I want you to convince me why it's good.
Simply posting links of cards will not convince of adding new cards, please try harder next time.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Just my two cents.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I might consider Rakka Mar since it does creates tokens to feed various Stax engines. Haste is always a nice ability to have. I'll test it out if I make space for it.
I don't run Bloodgast because of Grafdigger's Cage. It shows up on turn 1/2 in most my games. It's awesome!
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
UW
It's just expensive removal to me, but I guess it's worth a shot since it hits their lands.
I will see if any new cards make my decks, but most the time, Kevin, they don't. Not even Consecrated Sphinx is good enough for Sharuum.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Awesome card still, but I only have what, 7 creatures including Rakdos, so he isn't no effective in my list.
I run almost creature-less Stax decks, creatures just die to cards like Torpor Orb, Humility, Night of Souls' Betrayal, etc.
They are too vulnerable to me.
After making/playing so many control decks; I've learned only random hate bears and utility creatures survive since apparently creatures over 3 power on my side of the board, just flat out die.
I'm so glad people are using "terrible" generals instead of the more popular ones like what I use. At least I use them in a different way, I despise general-centric decks, they've are too risky for me. The more dependent, the worse your deck performs overall. But, I totally understand that people have different play-styles.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Not sure if that's a typo or not, but Void certainly does not hit lands(it has that non-land clause on it).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Typo
*Hands.
I misread the card, whoops. 6 mana just seems expensive for decent removal.
I mean if I want to deal with tokens, I could use Ratchet Bomb or Engineered Explosives since most the threatening permanents to me sit at 0,1,2 cmc.
I might be able to test this deck this weekend with Galspanic and crew. I hope it works out like the results I got from testing.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
I like ichor wellsping and mycosynth wellsping same for smokestax
Five mana, but yes, I understand what you are saying. It does have it's uses though.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I wondered at first at Goblin Matron in here. It's a good example of your deckbuilding which always makes me think. You want Squee or Welder, and the Matron is one less than Diabolic Tutor. I think maybe your drive for CMC efficiency might be at the cost of flexibility here though. If you've already gone through Squee or Welder, Matron is a dead draw (aside from swinging for 1, yeah I know). I might go for the extra mana cost and replace Matron with Diabolic Tutor, or even Beseech the Queen which you'll likely be able to play BBB for and have enough lands to get Squee. Then you can use Beseech the Queen for something else later on.
Matron though makes me think of Kiki-Jiki, who you know is decent with Duplicant and can make more Matrons to find the other two goblins. I doubt you want to go that route though as you don't run enough creatures to make Kiki-Jiki worthwhile.
I also have to smile at your longtime love of Bob... yeah he's good in your EDH decks, but just pay 2 more for Graveborn Muse already. Or 3 more for Bloodgift Demon. Bloodgift Demon even counts against your Rakdos total. I know you won't, you like your low mana curve, but I gotta say it.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
To be honest, I'm not sure why I have Goblin Matron in here. Yes, it's a dead draw after Goblin Welder and Squee are gone, but I just like having it. I do want try more goblins than those two. I just can't think of any right now.
Maybe...Krenko, new Goblin legend, Goblin Sharpshooter (for token removal). I love goblins, but it's hard for me to add more than a few goblin cards in all of my decks. I use to have a my typical goblin package in all my EDH decks with red/black, but now it seems lacking.
I'd never cut Dark Confidant out of any of my decks, but I might run Graveborn Muse because I see how good she is for everyone else. I need another creature to hold a sword of X and Y for the early game. I'm just not a fan of Bloodgift Demon; certain cards just don't work with me, I grew up with my Dark Confidant, my play-style adjusted for this card.
I always try to run new cards, but they never seem to impress me to gain a permanent deck slot. I don't like change in magic as you can tell. I'm still using cards printed in the early years of magic instead of better new standard cards. I know Go for the Throat is better than Dark Banishing, but I still don't use it.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
BRGWTana and TymnaBRGW
RTeneb, the EternalR
UBRNekusar, Mind RazerUBR
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGWGhave, Guru of SporesBGW
Aurelia, the Warleader
BDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefB
WBROros, the AvengerWBR
I need to try new cards, so it might.
I want to make space for Honden of Night's Reach and Honden of Infinite Rage. I'm a fan of enchantments that have incremental card advantage with no future investment.
1/1 tokens equipped with a Sword of X and Y have killed me plenty of time. So, Honden of Infinite will delay the Bitterblossom assault which is the most potent type of aggro.
Do you think any new cards from M13 make the cut or is my list already too tight for adjustment?
Changes
- Goblin Matron
- Dragonskull Summir
+ Death Cloud
+ Snow-Covered Swamp
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Maybe I have had less luck with Braids and Smokestack than you, but they have almost never done anything for me. On the surface, they seem broken, but in reality, they are not very good in a format where you can't run 4 of each. They're a completely dead draw later in the game, such that I always end up taking both out for something that gives my deck more resiliency or utility. Sure they're strong effects, but if you can't get them out turn 2/3 consistently, they're honestly very lackluster.
A dedicated stax build in general doesn't seem very viable. Yes, black has plenty of tutors but that doesn't actually provide additional smokestacks, which is where stax REAL power comes from; having 2-3 out and lets be honest, Braids is just a bad stack.
I would personally go for a more resilient, grindy-control approach, and as I saw you added reclamation, you're probably realizing this too. It's far easier to build up redundant resiliency rather than gimmicky stax.
Edit: Also, Pox seems like an auto-include in a b/x stax deck, if you must force the stax theme. With enough mana rocks, you can make it very one-sided.
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
You made some good points, but it all comes down to perspective. Braids and Smokestack are timing card just like any counterspells. Just because it's not out turn 2/3, it doesn't mean its garbage as many on here have said.
Are they talking about Vintage Workshop or Legacy Stax? Seriously, this isn't Type 1 or 1.5, come on people.
Braids is amazing, she has an immediate effective the turn she comes out unlike Smokestack and her being a creature that can hit for 2 on occasion makes her even better in my opinion.
If you want to have more success with Somestack or Braids, Cabal Minion; play more board or land wipes in your decks that include B/R/x because that's where they really shine.
The best plays I've made with either of those two cards were after a Jokulhaups or Devastation. The game was locked up after I resolved them because I kept a few mana rocks in my hand, and one of my many token production permanents were already in play.
Here's the trick you really need to practice before you preach. Don't over extend too much with Stax and always have few mana sources, playable cards after your Armageddon-ish card you're about to cast.
I use to go all-in a while back, but I've learned to be more conservative with my plays.
I think I'm going to test out Liliana of the Dark Realms in this deck as well, I do have enough swamps to make her good even in dual colours. I would think 12 swamps in the list is more than enough to make her +1 ability relevant. She'd honestly just be another engine to recover after a board wipe.
Edit: I've iffy about Pox, I'd rather play Death Cloud honestly since I do run a few Planeswalker in here, so they might just get there. I've had great success with Sarkhan the Mad and Liliana of the Veil in my various control decks. They are cards you might want to consider after testing for a few weeks.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control