Hello fellow edh players. I give you my WIP Talrand build. I've been playing commander for about a year, and have tried/played many generals. When M13 was released I was excited to try out the newly released legends, as anyone would be. I found, however, that it wasn't all fine and dandy. Yeva played out like my Azusa deck, and Krenko/Odric felt very linear to me. Enter Talrand, and the idea of blue aggro and heavy control.
I'm an aggro player at heart, but I love having answers to things. Bant felt too typical, so I went ahead and started to make this deck. With the limited testing done, it seems to perform quite well. All suggestions/discussions will be heard, so any are welcome.
Onto the deck, sorted alphabetically:
It looks like you have 33 cards that can only be cast at sorcery speed, so it seems like you would benefit from Leyline of Anticipation and Vedalken Orrery as mentioned in the other thread.
Also, no Gravitational Shift? That card is so good when most / all of your guys have flying.
Get rid of token buffs. Worthless in my Talrand deck.
I keep 4-7 bomby, always-good creatures to Proteus Staff into. Also add Polymorph for similar effect.
My package is Trinket Mage (best blue edh creature), C Sphinx, Tyrant, Jin. I never want to flip into a clone or a gilded drake when there may not be good targets. Venser, Riptide and Mnemonic seem especially weak (Riptide does not let you get the Eldrazi casting effect). They are not worth it when you can always flip into amazing stuff. If you want another recursion thing for the Wall, get Relearn. In a Talrand deck it's better, imo.
Cantrip counterspells are awesome. Dismiss, and Exclude. They don't need to be saved as they replace themselves, and they make a drake token!
Get rid of token buffs. Worthless in my Talrand deck.
I keep 4-7 bomby, always-good creatures to Proteus Staff into. Also add Polymorph for similar effect.
My package is Trinket Mage (best blue edh creature), C Sphinx, Tyrant, Jin. I never want to flip into a clone or a gilded drake when there may not be good targets. Venser, Riptide and Mnemonic seem especially weak (Riptide does not let you get the Eldrazi casting effect). They are not worth it when you can always flip into amazing stuff. If you want another recursion thing for the Wall, get Relearn. In a Talrand deck it's better, imo.
Cantrip counterspells are awesome. Dismiss, and Exclude. They don't need to be saved as they replace themselves, and they make a drake token!
I don't like the Ghostly Flicker combo, the Flicker doesn't do much on it's own. Too inconsistent. If you like Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Might?
Thanks for the detailed reponse!
I knew it didn't trigger the Eldrazi's effects, but I figured it was a good late-game backup pull. I can definitely cut one though. Flicker can probably come out as well, its less practical outside comboing. I had the cute cantrip suite, but they got cut somewhere along the way.
Compulsion can also be cut, as well as favorable. To small of an impact now that im looking at it. Venser's inclusion and Gauntlet's exclusion are more of a meta thing.
I think cards are good/will work until I hear it from a 3rd party, so thanks for that
Peek < gixatus probe
Ponder preordain > nat legacy
Deck looks like it could run out of gas some large draw spells are nice ie trade secrets and recurring insight .
As cool as invoke is in my experience it's pretty weak. I'd maybe run omniciants or however you spell it it cost a ton but I think with all the cantrip it could draw your whole deck.
I like sakashimi the imposter to double up on your drakes.
Isochron scepter looks like a monster here with plenty of targets for constant drakes / cat rips or counters.
Into the roil> boomerang
Lightning greaves seem ok since your so very general dependant.
I feel like in general you lack mans rocks t3 tale end seems better than t4 nd you cantrip slot if cut some weaker tale end cards for things like mind stone or sapphire medalion or chalice etc just to get the count 2-4 higher.
Also with things like top brainstorm etc I think the blue fetchlands are good here.
coat of arms looks like a decent bomb here as well for your aggro side
Peek < gixatus probe
Ponder preordain > nat legacy
Deck looks like it could run out of gas some large draw spells are nice ie trade secrets and recurring insight .
As cool as invoke is in my experience it's pretty weak. I'd maybe run omniciants or however you spell it it cost a ton but I think with all the cantrip it could draw your whole deck.
I like sakashimi the imposter to double up on your drakes.
Isochron scepter looks like a monster here with plenty of targets for constant drakes / cat rips or counters.
Into the roil> boomerang
Lightning greaves seem ok since your so very general dependant.
I feel like in general you lack mans rocks t3 tale end seems better than t4 nd you cantrip slot if cut some weaker tale end cards for things like mind stone or sapphire medalion or chalice etc just to get the count 2-4 higher.
Also with things like top brainstorm etc I think the blue fetchlands are good here.
coat of arms looks like a decent bomb here as well for your aggro side
All I got for now
Thanks for your interest!
Boomerang-roil seems like a good swap
Scepter would go in if I had one
Greaves are a maybe
Not really a fan of omniscience, and prejudice does work around here
I cut Mnemonic wall from mine, I do run Archaeomancer and Augur of Bolas...
Still is a WIP for me as wel... I run more lands and some different high end cards I think...
Am missing alot of cards I would like to have in it also, so dont think mine wil be the better list.....
But am curious why everyone plays Mystic Speculation, is it realy that good?? (have the card somewhere, cut it early, so might be hard to find it again though... :()
Also not a fan of Omniscience, way to high end... you should already be either winning or having some control by then.... (or so I think...)
Could add a list somewhere as wel I guess.... (wil do so later when I got some more playtesting and possible trading/buying for the list...)
Also a question to the low amount of land, does it realy work out that greatly, I dont have mox, vault and other free mana accel, so could it work with such a low amount of land, I run 37 currently...
Agreed with Omniscience. Speculation is reallly great imo because it lets you dig and gives you a drake, and is a late game mana sink. I don't really run accelerants either, and i've never really had mana issues.
yeah, I think its hard to cut cards, there are so many you can have in this deck... but you need to make selections, pick only the best cards....
I took out cards like Peek, cause for me it didnt do enough... yeah it was a cantrip, but only drawing a card and seeing one persons hand just doesnt cut it....
I play about 11/12 creatures 5/6 mana ramp cards totall (mana doubler included)
mostly draw and counter with some bounce...
(missing or wel couldnt find some of my better counter cards though, so am lacking a bit there...)
But I wil try out Speculation I guess, am using Oona's Grace for that, when I draw to many cards, a buddy of mine said to cut it, but I have had a few games where this card has shined for me...
(had about 10+ tokens in no time and a hand full of cards, even after playing alot of stuff in between...)
Dont run any real pump btw... dont think that should be added, the only pump is the Caged sun for me...
Also I dont run any enchantments I believe.... (they dont add to the rest of the deck theme in my opinion...)
Yeah...I never really liked Oona's Grace for some reason. I like the enchantments I run. I wanted to try to fit Opposition too, but like I said cuts are tough!
Opposition is a great card if you're focusing on the cheap cantripy route. If it's not a primary goal of the deck however, it ends up being a mildly worthless draw late game. Definitely an easy card to drop.
Also, any reason you're not running Counterbalance? It's heavily into control and damn good at it. Especially with Mystic Speculation (Sorcery, I know, that's what Leyline and Orrery are for) and Sensei's Divining Top.
I notice a lot of my games require a million and a half mana, so I run Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power on top of Caged Sun. How do you get by without them? From what I gather, they could very easily replace Gilded Lotus. I mean, 5mana for 3 mana per turn or 5 mana for double your islands per turn? Easy choice. If you're worried about opponents getting the edge, run Snow-Covered Islands and exile one land a game. Totally worth it IMO.
And where's Consecrated Sphinx? Surely it's better than Gilded Drake or Phantasmal Image. The amount of card draw is insane in multiplayer!
Same with Isochron Scepter. It gets the drake off of the ability, and I count 19 instants CMC 2 or less (excluding Pact of Negation). Having that threat of a counterspell as a rattlesnake is fantastic for my games, especially when going against another control player or players that think they can "play through it". Even if they remove it (eventually), it ends up being a large deterrent to your opponents playing anything if you keep 2 mana open, forcing them to play conservatively while you manage and upgrade your boardstate. The worst thing they can do is play a creature and just hit you in the face normally, sometimes.
Opposition is a great card if you're focusing on the cheap cantripy route. If it's not a primary goal of the deck however, it ends up being a mildly worthless draw late game. Definitely an easy card to drop.
Also, any reason you're not running Counterbalance? It's heavily into control and damn good at it. Especially with Mystic Speculation (Sorcery, I know, that's what Leyline and Orrery are for) and Sensei's Divining Top.
I notice a lot of my games require a million and a half mana, so I run Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power on top of Caged Sun. How do you get by without them? From what I gather, they could very easily replace Gilded Lotus. I mean, 5mana for 3 mana per turn or 5 mana for double your islands per turn? Easy choice. If you're worried about opponents getting the edge, run Snow-Covered Islands and exile one land a game. Totally worth it IMO.
And where's Consecrated Sphinx? Surely it's better than Gilded Drake or Phantasmal Image. The amount of card draw is insane in multiplayer!
Same with Isochron Scepter. It gets the drake off of the ability, and I count 19 instants CMC 2 or less (excluding Pact of Negation). Having that threat of a counterspell as a rattlesnake is fantastic for my games, especially when going against another control player or players that think they can "play through it". Even if they remove it (eventually), it ends up being a large deterrent to your opponents playing anything if you keep 2 mana open, forcing them to play conservatively while you manage and upgrade your boardstate. The worst thing they can do is play a creature and just hit you in the face normally, sometimes.
First off, thank you for the feedback, it's appreciated. Now to address your ideas:
I'd run counterblanace if I had one, it's just a matter of finding one around here :P. Same with the scepter.
I ran lens in one of my older decks, and it always got blown up/bounced and it set me back. Plus I don't really want to spend money on a snow base when I could buy other things, ya know? Gauntlet however has been something i've mulled over a lot lately, and will probably go in.
Sphinx should actually be on the list, not sure why it didn't get carried over. He's in there rest assured!
Thanks for the ideas, just need to find more cuts :/
I just recently switched my deck to a more artifact central theme (Tezzeret and friends), mostly because I just rely on having so much mana... Just Thursday I ended up having each Island tap for UUUU and I just became an unstoppable train of pain with Mystic Speculation, Capsize, Mindgames (which I also suggest), and Proteus Staff. It was glorious seeing them try and wiggle out!
I'm loving the deck, by the way. I'm impressed with it.
I just recently switched my deck to a more artifact central theme (Tezzeret and friends), mostly because I just rely on having so much mana... Just Thursday I ended up having each Island tap for UUUU and I just became an unstoppable train of pain with Mystic Speculation, Capsize, Mindgames (which I also suggest), and Proteus Staff. It was glorious seeing them try and wiggle out!
I'm loving the deck, by the way. I'm impressed with it.
Hah that's nuts! My blue decks are usually chock full of artifact mana, moxes, tezz and all. Lately however i've been seeing more cards like Austere Command and its like, and it sucks being blown away by it. Mind Games was in an earlier build and could maybe find its way back in.
About opposition, its a house against certain decks.... I can say, some people wil just downright scoop from even seeing it hit play.... (tapping them during the upkeep wil prevent them from playing something, but then again, if your curve is high with the cards you play it wil be less good, so I get why you cut it...)
about Distant Melody, for me at times it drew me 10+ cards... so I had to keep it in my deck.... but then again, everyone has their own way of playing and what they feel is best for their deck, dont like that its sorcery myself, but could always quicken it otherwise...
In the end its all about playstyle and personal choices... Sphinx is a must include though.... ^^
About Tezzeret and friends, I do like Tezz and all, but I dont feel he has a home in this deck, also in chaos planeswalkers tend to die realy fast.... (yeah, your drakes and counter could prevent that, but I can assure you people wil go balls out to stop it from being activated a second time...)
In 1 on 1, planeswalkers are pretty much busted.... only planeswalker I run is Jace Beleren, cause it has a low cost, and it draws you cards (yeah Tezz can search, wich sometimes is better, but he costs 5 mana, I rather have some mana open to counter...)
The whole talk about Gauntlets and such, yeah, those should be in, I dont own that nor the Extraplanar lens, also no one here wil trade them off, so wil prolly never be able to trade those, and buying them currently is impossible for me.....
(also a reason why my list is prolly inferior to some others.... although I have had a good run with it so far...)
Also, will work on updating the decklist and cleaning up the first page in the next few days or so. Thanks for all the continued interest and feedback!
Tezzeret's awesome for me, he's a diplo card when I don't play a lot of board stuff. I play, get a land (seat of the synod). -1, get a sol ring/sensei's divining top. Or, drop and -3 to get Extraplanar Lens. No matter how I go, it's solid.
*edit* Then again, I play with only 2-3 nonland permanents until I'm ready to go off on the board. Major playstyle difference, I suppose.
Oh trust me i'm not knocking or doubting Tezz's power, I love using him. Its just not really a way I wanted to take this particular deck, and the whole meta difference thing
*edit*
Oh yeah, there's definitely a few ways to run Talrand. With my playstyle, and I think OP's playstyle, it's focused around the big bomb spells, big things that have large impacts on the field. Cheap Cantripy style definitely requires less focus on artifact play, except for things that boost the drakes power.
Mana Drain is a card i'm saving up for, so close to buying one. Actually traded for a Spin into Myth today and slotted it in.
I decided to take the deck into a more cantrippy fashion, and took out some of the bombs. I promise an updated deck list in the main post sometime tomorrow!
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre; A few reasons. Mill protection which is occasionally relevant. More importantly, graveyard cycling. It's a fantastic thing to refill your deck when you run through instants and sorceries ever five cards. On that note...
Time Spiral is broken with mana doublers. It's fantastic without them. Refill your library, draw into time magic, and have fun. It really is that good. Worst case scenario, you refill your hand with castable stuff. It's too good not to play. Speaking of playing with that big mana...
Turnabout is also fantastic with or without mana doublers. Big mana to drop all the expensive stuff your mother warned you about. Or, shut off someone's mana base before they draw. Either way, it's a versatile version of Reset that allows you to play out your hand. Again, too good.
Grand Architect Another card that's a bit situational, but totally playable. A creature that buffs your drakes and interacts with your artifacts. A great situation for it is it on the field with handful of drakes. Tap it and a couple drakes and grab Caged Sun, boosting your remaining drakes as well as produce that big mana for a million and a half Mystic Speculations or Capsizes. Also, for when you get an Isochron Scepter, tap a drake to counter a spell or whatnot. Again, it has so much synergy with the theme of the deck, and works with the off theme of big mana and strong affects.
A question, by the way. How is Invoke Prejudice working out for you? I keep on eyeballing it, but I'm hesitant to throw it in my deck. Does it end up being that successful creature stopper that I want it to be?
Another question; why the removal of Tidespout Tyrant? With the cheap spells you're able to sling back and forth, I'd figure it'd be a great card.
I agree some yard cycling would be an awesome addition, but there is virtually no mill where I play, so Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre loses his value IMO to things like Mnemonic Nexus and the aforementioned Time Spiral. I need to pick one or both of them up without a doubt.
Grand Architect seemed a bit underwhelming at first, but I think you sold him to me for at least a test run or two.
Turnabout is a card I was mulling putting in or not, as I have a copy laying in my binder. I think i'll test it out.
Tyrant got removed because I had to make more room, and I was trimming down creatures a bit. He could always be tested again.
I'm not discounting anything you suggest, its just I have to actually test it all and see how it plays first
And on Invoke Prejudice, the few times I drew it it has been AMAZING. It slows people down and makes them think twice about dumping most of their mana for a creature.
Awesome! I think I'll have to add Invoke Prejudice into my deck as well.
And another big sell on Ulamog, remember that he does one other big thing that blue traditionally can't do; destroy target permanent. I mean, it's more expensive than Spine of Ish Sah, but it has the added benefit of being a big nasty creature. Then again, I suppose it does go against Invoke Prejudice... Hmm... May be worth it. Thanks!
Well, Prejudice is opponents only. And colorless isnt a color, so ulamog wont benefit your opponents or hurt you when it comes to prejudice. Its a bit expensive $$ wise, but if you can grab one definitely do.
I'm an aggro player at heart, but I love having answers to things. Bant felt too typical, so I went ahead and started to make this deck. With the limited testing done, it seems to perform quite well. All suggestions/discussions will be heard, so any are welcome.
Onto the deck, sorted alphabetically:
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Land (35)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Strip Mine
1 Terrain Generator
1 Tolaria West
29 Island
Artifacts(9)
1 Caged Sun
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Meek Stone
1 Mind Stone
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Vedalken Orrery
Creatures(6)
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Palinchron
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage
Instants (36)
1 Abjure
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Delay
1 Dispel
1 Dissipate
1 Evacuation
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Foil
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 High Tide
1 Hinder
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mind Games
1 Mystic Speculation
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Opt
1 Pact of Negation
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Pongify
1 Quicken
1 Remand
1 Repulse
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Spin Into Myth
1 Think Twice
1 Wipe Away
1 Bribery
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystic Speculations
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Savor the Moment
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Time Warp
1 Walk the Aeons
Enchantments(4)
1 Back to Basics
1 Coastal Piracy
1 Invoke Prejudice
1 Rhystic Study
Planeswalker(2)
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
As you can see, i'm a few cards over and would love help trimming some of the excess.
Some of the main wincons:
There are also many little synergies, such as Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and Rewind.
8/26/12
Out:
Boomerang
Call to Mind
Compulsion
Favorable Winds
Ghostly Flicker
Gilded Drake
Gilded Lotus
Jin-Gitaxis, Core Augur
Kozilek, butcher of Truth
Lat-Nam's Legacy
Mnemonic Wall
Peek
Phantasmal Image
Proteus Staff
Riptide Shapeshifter
Stormtide Leviathan
Tidespout Tyrant
Trade Routes
Turbulent Dreams
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Venser, Shaper Savant
In:
Consecrated Sphinx
Faerie Trickery
Gauntlet of Power
Into the Roil
Jace, the Mindsculptor
Mana Leak
Meekstone
Mind Games
Mind Stone
Mystic Speculations
Ponder
Preordain
Savor the Moment
Spin Into Myth
Trinket Mage
Vedalken Orrery
If there's confusion about a particular card, ask away! As previously said, all discussion and ideas are greatly appreciated.
Also, no Gravitational Shift? That card is so good when most / all of your guys have flying.
EDIT: Post #1111!
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I keep 4-7 bomby, always-good creatures to Proteus Staff into. Also add Polymorph for similar effect.
My package is Trinket Mage (best blue edh creature), C Sphinx, Tyrant, Jin. I never want to flip into a clone or a gilded drake when there may not be good targets. Venser, Riptide and Mnemonic seem especially weak (Riptide does not let you get the Eldrazi casting effect). They are not worth it when you can always flip into amazing stuff. If you want another recursion thing for the Wall, get Relearn. In a Talrand deck it's better, imo.
Cantrip counterspells are awesome. Dismiss, and Exclude. They don't need to be saved as they replace themselves, and they make a drake token!
I also run Ponder, Preordain, and other cute cantrips. I'd run them, cut a bunch of creatures. Compulsion and Favorable Winds can be cut.
I don't like the Ghostly Flicker combo, the Flicker doesn't do much on it's own. Too inconsistent. If you like Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Might?
Thanks for the detailed reponse!
I knew it didn't trigger the Eldrazi's effects, but I figured it was a good late-game backup pull. I can definitely cut one though. Flicker can probably come out as well, its less practical outside comboing. I had the cute cantrip suite, but they got cut somewhere along the way.
Compulsion can also be cut, as well as favorable. To small of an impact now that im looking at it. Venser's inclusion and Gauntlet's exclusion are more of a meta thing.
I think cards are good/will work until I hear it from a 3rd party, so thanks for that
Ponder preordain > nat legacy
Deck looks like it could run out of gas some large draw spells are nice ie trade secrets and recurring insight .
As cool as invoke is in my experience it's pretty weak. I'd maybe run omniciants or however you spell it it cost a ton but I think with all the cantrip it could draw your whole deck.
I like sakashimi the imposter to double up on your drakes.
Isochron scepter looks like a monster here with plenty of targets for constant drakes / cat rips or counters.
Into the roil> boomerang
Lightning greaves seem ok since your so very general dependant.
I feel like in general you lack mans rocks t3 tale end seems better than t4 nd you cantrip slot if cut some weaker tale end cards for things like mind stone or sapphire medalion or chalice etc just to get the count 2-4 higher.
Also with things like top brainstorm etc I think the blue fetchlands are good here.
coat of arms looks like a decent bomb here as well for your aggro side
All I got for now
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Thanks for your interest!
Boomerang-roil seems like a good swap
Scepter would go in if I had one
Greaves are a maybe
Not really a fan of omniscience, and prejudice does work around here
Agreed with Omniscience. Speculation is reallly great imo because it lets you dig and gives you a drake, and is a late game mana sink. I don't really run accelerants either, and i've never really had mana issues.
Well originally, I only ran wall because his creature type conflicted with riptide. But I ended up cutting riptide/wall and im still 6 cards over :/
Yeah...I never really liked Oona's Grace for some reason. I like the enchantments I run. I wanted to try to fit Opposition too, but like I said cuts are tough!
Also, any reason you're not running Counterbalance? It's heavily into control and damn good at it. Especially with Mystic Speculation (Sorcery, I know, that's what Leyline and Orrery are for) and Sensei's Divining Top.
I notice a lot of my games require a million and a half mana, so I run Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power on top of Caged Sun. How do you get by without them? From what I gather, they could very easily replace Gilded Lotus. I mean, 5mana for 3 mana per turn or 5 mana for double your islands per turn? Easy choice. If you're worried about opponents getting the edge, run Snow-Covered Islands and exile one land a game. Totally worth it IMO.
And where's Consecrated Sphinx? Surely it's better than Gilded Drake or Phantasmal Image. The amount of card draw is insane in multiplayer!
Same with Isochron Scepter. It gets the drake off of the ability, and I count 19 instants CMC 2 or less (excluding Pact of Negation). Having that threat of a counterspell as a rattlesnake is fantastic for my games, especially when going against another control player or players that think they can "play through it". Even if they remove it (eventually), it ends up being a large deterrent to your opponents playing anything if you keep 2 mana open, forcing them to play conservatively while you manage and upgrade your boardstate. The worst thing they can do is play a creature and just hit you in the face normally, sometimes.
First off, thank you for the feedback, it's appreciated. Now to address your ideas:
I'd run counterblanace if I had one, it's just a matter of finding one around here :P. Same with the scepter.
I ran lens in one of my older decks, and it always got blown up/bounced and it set me back. Plus I don't really want to spend money on a snow base when I could buy other things, ya know? Gauntlet however has been something i've mulled over a lot lately, and will probably go in.
Sphinx should actually be on the list, not sure why it didn't get carried over. He's in there rest assured!
Thanks for the ideas, just need to find more cuts :/
Meh, I feel like there are better draw spells that are less narrow.
I just recently switched my deck to a more artifact central theme (Tezzeret and friends), mostly because I just rely on having so much mana... Just Thursday I ended up having each Island tap for UUUU and I just became an unstoppable train of pain with Mystic Speculation, Capsize, Mindgames (which I also suggest), and Proteus Staff. It was glorious seeing them try and wiggle out!
I'm loving the deck, by the way. I'm impressed with it.
Hah that's nuts! My blue decks are usually chock full of artifact mana, moxes, tezz and all. Lately however i've been seeing more cards like Austere Command and its like, and it sucks being blown away by it. Mind Games was in an earlier build and could maybe find its way back in.
Agreed, i'm working on a Jace, the Mindsculptor for the deck, along with some other things.
Also, will work on updating the decklist and cleaning up the first page in the next few days or so. Thanks for all the continued interest and feedback!
*edit* Then again, I play with only 2-3 nonland permanents until I'm ready to go off on the board. Major playstyle difference, I suppose.
Also, what about Mana Drain? I know it's horribly expensive, but it's fantastic in any blue deck that can run Counterspell.
And Spin into Myth as well. Great general/problem tuck.
*edit*
Oh yeah, there's definitely a few ways to run Talrand. With my playstyle, and I think OP's playstyle, it's focused around the big bomb spells, big things that have large impacts on the field. Cheap Cantripy style definitely requires less focus on artifact play, except for things that boost the drakes power.
I decided to take the deck into a more cantrippy fashion, and took out some of the bombs. I promise an updated deck list in the main post sometime tomorrow!
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre; A few reasons. Mill protection which is occasionally relevant. More importantly, graveyard cycling. It's a fantastic thing to refill your deck when you run through instants and sorceries ever five cards. On that note...
Time Spiral is broken with mana doublers. It's fantastic without them. Refill your library, draw into time magic, and have fun. It really is that good. Worst case scenario, you refill your hand with castable stuff. It's too good not to play. Speaking of playing with that big mana...
Turnabout is also fantastic with or without mana doublers. Big mana to drop all the expensive stuff your mother warned you about. Or, shut off someone's mana base before they draw. Either way, it's a versatile version of Reset that allows you to play out your hand. Again, too good.
Grand Architect Another card that's a bit situational, but totally playable. A creature that buffs your drakes and interacts with your artifacts. A great situation for it is it on the field with handful of drakes. Tap it and a couple drakes and grab Caged Sun, boosting your remaining drakes as well as produce that big mana for a million and a half Mystic Speculations or Capsizes. Also, for when you get an Isochron Scepter, tap a drake to counter a spell or whatnot. Again, it has so much synergy with the theme of the deck, and works with the off theme of big mana and strong affects.
A question, by the way. How is Invoke Prejudice working out for you? I keep on eyeballing it, but I'm hesitant to throw it in my deck. Does it end up being that successful creature stopper that I want it to be?
Another question; why the removal of Tidespout Tyrant? With the cheap spells you're able to sling back and forth, I'd figure it'd be a great card.
I'm not discounting anything you suggest, its just I have to actually test it all and see how it plays first
And on Invoke Prejudice, the few times I drew it it has been AMAZING. It slows people down and makes them think twice about dumping most of their mana for a creature.
And another big sell on Ulamog, remember that he does one other big thing that blue traditionally can't do; destroy target permanent. I mean, it's more expensive than Spine of Ish Sah, but it has the added benefit of being a big nasty creature. Then again, I suppose it does go against Invoke Prejudice... Hmm... May be worth it. Thanks!