MTG Salvation

This is my list for Damia, Sage of Stone. I have playtested it quite extensively and am happy for the most part with the results I see. I would like some feedback about other possible card choices.

Thanks

General
[CARD]
Damia, Sage of Stone[/CARD]

Lands (43)
3 Forest
3 island
3 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Barren Moor
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Grove
1 Underground River
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Lotus Vale
1 Wasteland
1 Temple of the False God
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Strip Mine
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Bazaar of Bagdad
1 Duskmantle, House of Shadow

Creatures

1 Palinchron
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Fierce Empath

Artifacts

1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Golgari Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Simic Signet

Enchantments

1 Mana Reflection
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Necropotence
1 Burgeoning
1 Exploration
1 Sylvan Library

Instants

1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Delay
1 Mana Drain
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

Sorceries

1 Time Spiral
1 Bribery
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Life from the Loam
1 Cultivate
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Temporal Mastery
1 All is Dust
1 Explore
1 Spitting Image
1 Windfall
1 Time Warp
1 Regrowth
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Stretch
1 Genesis Wave
1 Skyshroud Claim

Planeswalkers

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Quote from shanemiller154

This is my list for Damia, Sage of Stone. I have playtested it quite extensively and am happy for the most part with the results I see. I would like some feedback about other possible card choices.

Thanks

Damia, Sage of StoneMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
General 1 Damia, Sage of Stone Lands (43) 3 Forest 3 island 3 Swamp 1 Dryad Arbor 1 Sapseep Forest 1 Tranquil Thicket 1 Barren Moor 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1 Cabal Coffers 1 Phyrexian Tower 1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge 1 Dimir Aqueduct 1 Golgari Rot Farm 1 Simic Growth Chamber 1 Verdant Catacombs 1 Misty Rainforest 1 Polluted Delta 1 Bayou 1 Underground Sea 1 Tropical Island 1 Breeding Pool 1 Watery Grave 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Flooded Grove 1 Underground River 1 Yavimaya Coast 1 Reflecting Pool 1 Command Tower 1 Lotus Vale 1 Wasteland 1 Temple of the False God 1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea 1 Ancient Tomb 1 Volrath's Stronghold 1 Strip Mine 1 Alchemist's Refuge 1 Bazaar of Bagdad 1 Duskmantle, House of Shadow	1 Palinchron 1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking 1 Tidespout Tyrant 1 Deadeye Navigator 1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger 1 Coiling Oracle 1 Cloud of Faeries 1 Oona, Queen of the Fae 1 Eternal Witness 1 Primeval Titan 1 Oracle of Mul Daya 1 Phyrexian Metamorph 1 Phantasmal Image 1 Fierce Empath 1 Mana Crypt 1 Grim Monolith 1 Sol Ring 1 Mox Diamond 1 Mana Vault 1 Crucible of Worlds 1 Golgari Signet 1 Dimir Signet 1 Simic Signet 1 Mana Reflection 1 Heartbeat of Spring 1 Necropotence 1 Burgeoning 1 Exploration 1 Sylvan Library 1 Intuition 1 Lim-Dul's Vault 1 Delay 1 Mana Drain 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mystical Tutor	1 Time Spiral 1 Bribery 1 Tooth and Nail 1 Praetor's Counsel 1 Life from the Loam 1 Cultivate 1 Green Sun's Zenith 1 Praetor's Grasp 1 Temporal Mastery 1 All is Dust 1 Explore 1 Spitting Image 1 Windfall 1 Time Warp 1 Regrowth 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Time Stretch 1 Genesis Wave 1 Skyshroud Claim 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Just looking at your mana base, I would reconsider the following choices: Sapseep Forest (is the activation for life gain worth the inclusion of this non-basic?), Dimir Aqueduct & Golgari Rot Farm & Simic Growth Chamber (not a big fan of the bounce lands; screams 'opponents, please time walk on me by destroying ~this land'), which brings me to Lotus Vale (no... really, please time stretch on me. also, not synergy with an early temple of the false god, right?)

What do you think?

Looks similar to my older Damia build with alot more focus on getting to the Combo but not being able to stop as much beforehand it's hard to race fast decks with t+n. First obvious miss is Force of Will. Pact if negation is also awesome. Beast within is an auto include I'd run more than 1 if I could. Like my earlier build this goes off faster and more consistantly which means you will dumpster bad decks harder but your win% will tank against good players. Lotus vale is way to greedy one strip and you will cry. Gwave abd youth seems like over kill gwave is slow. Still looks lite on ramp I'd cut lands for natures lore three visits farseek

@ Kilo

The Bounce lands are arguably the strongest mana tricks in the deck. They allow primeval titan to do AMAZING things. Like get a bounce land and a cycle land to draw a card or get bounce land and coffers to play coffers for the turn in main phase two for infinite gain. Sapseep Forest is also there for a reason. If for some reason I get stuck in a situation where I need infinite life palinchron and deadeye navigator/cloud of faeries can get it done. I will admit Lotus vale is sketchy at times. The issue is there aren't a lot of good options for being able to make infinite mana with Palinchron without a mana flare or coffers ie. 7 lands 12 mana. Thoughts?

@ moxnix
I off and on play beast within and it is usually fine. I have played mindbreak trap and it was ok. As for Force of Will... I just dont think I play enough blue spells to justify it. Pact may not be terrible but normally the deck wins between turns 4-6 so paying an early pact is ****TY for forward progress.

Test force you play enough I've never not been able to cart it and I've played the deck Hundreds of time with force I am bluer than you but you should be bluer

Winning turn 4-6? This means you either play online or the kids in your meta are bad like I says your deck is great for goldfish but if they adapt to your deck you need more interaction. For example if I cast heartbeat of spring in my meta not only do I have to win on that turn or u lose but I need a conter for Thier counter as well.

Edit ; cut lotus cake your focusing ai hard on making the deck consistantly go off that when you finnally play against good decks you are going to get hated off the board ever fame and have nothing to do about it.

Check out Both Moxnix's and my list. Mine is in my sig.

Quote from shanemiller154

The Bounce lands are arguably the strongest mana tricks in the deck. They allow primeval titan to do AMAZING things. Like get a bounce land and a cycle land to draw a card or get bounce land and coffers to play coffers for the turn in main phase two for infinite gain.

Basically, Primeval Titan is amazing on its own; the bounce lands on their own, imho, not so much. Again imho, the bounce lands are not bad but more budget and casual options. How often do you have to mulligan opening hands with one (or more) bounce land(s) and Lotus Vale? Those lands don't appear to be the best draws early game either; stall your board development for a whole turn. And again, opponents can time walk against you... However the last point made about being LD and time walked, you know your meta and playgroup if this an actual concern.

43 lands feels a little high; if you wanted to fit more business into the deck, these might be possibilities for removal (Lotus Vale, then bounce lands, then Sapseep if you go that far).

The issue is there aren't a lot of good options for being able to make infinite mana with Palinchron without a mana flare or coffers ie. 7 lands 12 mana. Thoughts?

True. Easier with an enabler (Heartbeat or Mana Reflection) to combo out with the Palinchron; my Kami deck needs Palinchron + Gauntlet (should be Caged Sun) as the mana enabler.

Without an enabler and your current mana base, you need Vale and all three bounce lands in the 7 lands minimum -or- Coffers + Urborg in 8 lands minimum, right? The former fails if one of the 4 lands is missing; the latter is easier to pull off (especially if an opponent has an Urborg already in play). Gaea's Cradle can get you the mana needed but I don't believe you run enough creatures to reliably get there.

The answer is you run 1 bounceland like me ;). So many uses good in so many place primetime or with dvtitor on 2 land no hit etc etc.

Vorinclex and Deadeye Navigator win with Palincron if you entwine your Tooth and Nail.

Deadeye Navigator and Phantasmal Image both make infinite mana with Palinchron. There are enough cards that do that I don't think it should be too hard.

Alternatively, you could run Mikaeus, the Unhallowed with Triskelion and just win on the spot.

@ Dtrain

Palinchron can make infinite mana quite a few ways in this deck. But deadeye navigator is truly in the deck more because of his interaction with cloud of faeries that is the one of the possible wins for infinite mana.

@ Moxnix

I might have to test some more with force of will. The playgroups that I play with normally are actually very well funded and competitive. The deck gains a LOT of its edge in games because it has little to no board presence. It is mostly just mana producers that people under estimate. As for cutting a bounce land or two... I think you may be correct though I have no idea what non basic lands that I dont play are even worth looking into.

@ Kilo

I play 43 lands for a reason. Playing 5 exploration effects in the deck requires there to be lands in it. Also missing land drops is never acceptable. As for not playing enough ramp... I have a hard time taking that arguement seriously unless you really mean that I don't have the ability to SEARCH out enough lands.

Quote from shanemiller154

@ Kilo

I play 43 lands for a reason. Playing 5 exploration effects in the deck requires there to be lands in it. Also missing land drops is never acceptable. As for not playing enough ramp... I have a hard time taking that arguement seriously unless you really mean that I don't have the ability to SEARCH out enough lands.

Yes, I really meant searching out land to ramp. That way you don't miss a land drop, you ramp, and are not drawing land for turns on end.

43 lands on top of mana rocks is overkill, in my opinion. Even with 5 exploration effects, it seems like it's just cutting into boardspace that could be used for other cards.

Cards I would consider dropping:

• Dryad Arbor - Slow land and unnecessary creature.
• Sapseep Forest - Slow land, unnecessary effect.
• Tranquil Thicket/Barren Moor - Slow land, mediocre ability.
• Lotus Vale - Asking to get Time Stretched by LD
• Duskmantle, House of Shadow - Colorless mana and mediocre (and unnecessary) effect. Only ok as an answer to Top and doesn't seem strong enough outside of that scenario to warrant inclusion.
• Tidespout Tyrant - I personally don't care for this card; I never included it in my BUG list because it seems mediocre and isn't a combo piece.
• Coiling Oracle - I don't personally care for this card. I'd rather have a Mystic Snake.
• Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - Decent card, but I dropped it from my own BUG list because it was never something I found useful outside of comboing (and Deadeye Navigator took its spot as the T&N fetch alongside Palinchron)
• Signets - I cut them from my list because I found I hated having to pay mana to get mana. Being able to tap a rock in addition to what you already have is much better.
• Hearbeat of Spring - Can easily screw you. The ramp really has to be worth it.
• Spitting Image - I don't really see this card being necessary. How has it been performing for you?
• Windfall - Perhaps I'm missing some application of this card, but it seems unnecessary. I suppose you included it because you run 5 exploration effects and need the refill?

I noticed that you don't have a lot of control elements to your deck. Why did you choose to go this route? I advocate at least running a few extra counterspells to protect your combo. You also don't seem to run many tutors, which seems odd given the colors you're working with.

Cards I would consider adding:

• Leyline of Anticipation - Great way to take advantage of control colors and make your plays at the opportune times.
• Vedalken Orrery - See above.
• Rhystic Study - Good, cheap draw.
• Phyrexian Arena - See above.
• Consecrated Sphinx - Great draw power, especially in multiplayer.
• Capsize - Decent removal and a way to win off of infinite mana.
• Venser, Shaper Savant - Nice control creature.
• Thran Dynamo - Great ramp artifact.
• Gilded Lotus - See above.
• Exsanguinate - Great wincon.
• Blue Sun's Zenith Decent draw power at instant speed and a decent wincon.

You should check out the deck in my sig. It is also a combo deck, but goes heavier on the control and and opts for some varied wincons using infinite mana. I also find the list to be quite flexible and able to deal with threats that I would assume you answer by simply trying to outrace with ramp.

yeah i know me and monix have been working on damia for awhile and right off the bat 43 lands is way too many. I only run 34 with more ramp based effects.

seedborn muse goes in every green deck i make and leyline of anticipation goes in every blue deck they work wonders together especially with damia on the board.

also do other combo-control damia players, how do you feel about tamiyo?

Tamiyo if your lust has enough protection ie wrath / blocker heavy it's good time warp wins off ult I like her in moni blue. I test her in my Damia didn't like her would run tezzeret before her.

Quote from jwf239

also do other combo-control damia players, how do you feel about tamiyo?

She seems too vulnerable to be good enough. You really have to work at protecting her and you probably could have combo'd off by the time her ultimate resolves (if it resolves). I'd sooner run more countermagic, since it's a general-purpose answer to most threats and protects my combos better than Tamiyo would.