Sorry about the play on words I know that the Full Metal Alchemist is Elric but man it sounds soooooo similarly I had to change the name of it. Also the fact that this deck sort of utilitizes puny little 1-2 mana drop guys sort of reminded me of Elric when he was a pipsqueek. Anyways on to the deck.
Ok so I am really getting into this deck. We have had some fantastic discussion on the decklist in Donald's post. The consensus was to run a very very low mana curve evasive creatures. You will notice currently I only have 2 creatures above the 4 mana mark and I run some 15 or so 1 mana drops to really try to run the deck quickly (wow that's outdated lol). Powering the deck out right from the getgo is the strategy that will be used here. Get rolling and back yourself up with some countermagic to try to just steamroll opponents.
Looking through my list you will notice I have no Primeval Titan or Avenger of Zendikar. I guess my big question is how needed are they in here? Obviously Primeval Titan isnt ever really a bad pull but he costs a lot to come down and I have to ask how much land we are trying to ramp to? Avenger is an army in a can but as I feel like he makes every green list I make I sort of wonder how this one would be without him.
Also, I would love to add Force of Will... sadly I dont own any and cannot afford to buy one. Same for Gaea’s Cradle and Mana Drain. While I am sure both of them deserve a spot... they will go on the wishlist for now because I just dont have the resources to obtain them.
EDIT: Ohhh by the way I scalped most of my list off of Donald and Tedv. Thanks for all the discussion on the lists as it has been very useful in making some of my decisions.
I'm probably going to build a budget version on MTGO today to test some things out and if I do I'll let you know how it goes. This deck looks like it's going to be a ton of fun.
Sounds great. I would love to hear some feedback on some of the cards myself before piecing it together. I might proxy up my list just to try some stuff out before committing to some of the cards. Luckily a huge portion of this list is totally budget due to the nature of the low mana drops. I need to really get a feel for some of my threats and creatures before I commit to buying some of it though. Let me know how it goes. I do love how ridiculously aggressive the list is looking though. It should really teach some players that it isnt ok to not do anything the first 5 turns.
EDIT: Sorry I have made a bunch of updates that are documented on Donald's page lol. For now I am just trying to get my list looking as good as possible to start with. Once I get the list running I will worry moreso about documenting changes. I cut a few of the utility guys that I didnt feel would be as good at connecting to opponents in order to allow a bit more utility into the deck. That brings the creature numbers under 40 and I plan on adding a few more counterspells and perhaps a few more utility cards.
Ok I finally got the deck proxied up. I had a few alterations from the original decklist as it was a bit slaped together. I managed to play a few games the first of which were interrupted by either food showing up or next round starting during our sealed M12 event but I got 3 full games in with the deck neer the end.
I love how aggressive this deck is and while it may look a bit haphazard it is very effective. It isnt a perfect machine but if your opponents dont push you off of your early game very quickly you will run them over.
My first partial game was a heads up vs Animar. It was very funny as he was slow rolling as he has a bad deck. We ended up dropping the game though as it was during our M12 sealed event and we had to start another round. I had him though and he knew it.
I got a partial game that was a 4 player round in which I managed to peel a mox on my turn 2 and drop Edric in. The match went really well and I think it was mine to win as 2 of my opponents ran like 0-2 wrath effects and the other a handfull. I managed to get my swarm going and had my opponents swinging at each other due to Edric's card drawing. I had a few counters in hand and I was up to mana to hold them open as an option. I think it would have been a favorable game but we had to scrap it due to food that showed up. Yumm mexican. (yes we did play EDH in guads lol)
In my first full game I played a heads up against my own Jenara decklist. He got a bit mana screwed and was trying to push lands out but had some to work with. I used some of my evasive forestwalkers to connect as well as the fact that he tapped out several times with Jenara in play facing down my Vendilion Clique. He finally got going a bit but I managed to pull an Overrun and just run him over.
My second full game was a 3 player game against my Karrthus deck and a Zedru decklist. Again I managed to peel a mox and I was off to a lolz start. I got some quick early game card draw going and dropped a Tangle Wire in behind my Vengevine on my turn 4. After the wire was gone I had flipped Erayo, Soratami Ascendant with several counterspells in hand. I just ran them over and it was a blast.
The final game I did was a rematch against Zedru and Karrthus. Unfortuantely I got screwed on my land and my hand went down to like 5 cards if I can remember right. The hand looked slow and bad but I was already at 5 so it was hard to do much about it. I slow rolled Edric out on turn 3 with only one other creature in play. I swung and drew a card. Zedru passed his turn and Karrthus dropped a Damnation. Zedru responed with a Chaos Warp on Edric and I was off to a bad start. I dropped the last few chumps I had in hand into play and just slow rolled to nothing. Karrthus dropped in and swung at me 4 rounds in a row to kill me. I managed to chump once with a flyer but it didnt matter. I got blown out it cant really be helped though at a 5 card hand in such a fast deck though.
Altogether I was very impressed by the first draft of this deck. I will continue to adjust the list to try to improve it. Some card feedback from my games as follows:
CUTS: Boreal Druid tapping for colorless mana has been a lot less useful than I thought it would be in here. I am going to cut him for some different 1 drop probably. I would rather have another utility or evasive one drop than this guy.
Gilded Drake too responsive for the deck. I need a more proactive approach than a reactive approach and this guy is as reactive as it gets.
Lotus Cobra I havent had good results here. As Tedv pointed out he is at his best with all of the fetchlands and exploration cards you can get your hands on. I do think I will bring up my fetchland count to include the other zendikar options but that only brings it up to 3.
Trygon Predator too slow. His evasion can be mimicked in one drops and I don't really need the utility for the deck.
Phyrexian Metamorph another guy who is too responsive. Copying 1 drop creatures for 3 mana and 2 life seems really fail. He is going out.
Night Soil it is too slow to get started. I like how it is great to rebuild but it doesnt help in the start of the game which is a turnoff in my book.
Turbulent Dreams I have drawn it a few times and sadly I just haven't really wanted it yet. It isn't necessarily bad but I guess if it were instant speed I would like it more.
Vengevine he costs a bit too much to drop in. I love his whole ability to rez off of creature casts but honestly if someone wraths me I will be hurting plenty enough that rezing this guy probably wont make or break my comeback. Being at 4 mana hurts a bit much.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa too slow. I would hate to opening hand this guy as he takes lolz mana to drop and lolz mana to activate. If I were to drop him in I would be tapped out. He just doesnt seem like he would pan out.
Avenger of Zendikar too slow to drop. I love me some army in a can but Edric already does it sooooo well that I just dont need it.
Reliquary Tower haven't needed it and colorless mana hurts. I think I will cut it out for another fetchland.
Inkmoth Nexus I have yet to want to activate this and I have little other infect support. I am taking it out due to it tapping for colorless in favor of another fetchland.
ADDS: Wirewood Symbiote gives some extra spot removal protection to Edric.
Martyr of Frost counterspell on a stick. Again it is another guy that encourages people not to wrath me and buys me some time. As long as I have cards in hand and mana open I can counter and it is on a stick so in it goes.
Skyshroud Ranger I am willing to test the whole Elf thing out a bit. Extra lands into play are always good as well.
Joraga Warcaller doing a bit of the whole elf thing. I like how I can drop him as a 1/1 for G on my opening turn or I can make him big for a buffed army later on.
Trinket Mage Skullclamp is probably the best draw engine in the deck when Edric is MIA. The mage gives me a way to pull it up. If everything is going well I can just peel a memnite off of him and get 2 guys for 3 mana.
Survival of the Fittest this gives me a chance to dig Edric back up from a tuck. It also allows me to cycle off some of the smaller guys later in the game for something better if I want.
Spell Pierce another wrath protection. I like how I can cast this for less mana and it should be very effective still.
Exploration Extra mana in the early game is gamebreaking. I like how it replaces itself as you just drop another land so it increases your tempo and doest slow your turn one play.
Vendilion Clique I tried it out and I have liked it so far. The fact that it has flash is nice and I can peek at the control players hand and try to strip out their wraths / tutors seems good too. I cant say it is perfect but I like it.
Scalding Tarn more fixing. I want to hit my dual lands as fast as possible.
I like that update a lot. Turbulent Dreams has also been sketchy for me, sometimes useful other times it just doesn't help much since it can't bounce lands. Let me know how the elf package works out. I think you should give Priest of Titania a shot since you're going that route.
This looks like a good set of updates to me too. I highly recommend Priest of Titania. There's just so many times where you want to swing with everyone but the Priest, and then use 5 extra mana from her to dump your hand. Elvish Archdruid fills the same role.
I'm particularly curious how you like Memnite, the forestwalkers, and Opposition.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Ok I will give Priest of Titania a shot. The fact that she is at the 2 mana mark seems servicable. I will have to find another cut for her. I dont want to go too elf tribal here but I think I could probably allow her in. I dont really want to pay the 3 mana for the archdruid though.
Memnite - I have yet to regret ever getting him. There is often an open board somewhere. If opponents have creatures in play they often want to be card drawing as well and so someone usually taps their only creature to swing somewhere. I see a lot of slower opponents in my meta as we are used to playing more drawn out EDH games so I have yet to have an issue with the blockers issue. Once I get the good card draw going the fact that he is free to drop is great. I just added Trinket Mage as well which I sort of hope to make even more use of memnite with as I can get 2 creatures in for 3 mana which is decent and it is a good backup plan for peeling a skullclamp out in an emergency. So far I have to say I really approve of running this guy. He feels a bit like some of the crazy mana accel that we use in this deck as since he is free he can really make a difference in how explosive your opening hand is.
Forestwalkers - I would have to say a good 80% of my opposition runs multicolored decks and at least 70% or so of decks in our meta run green in them. All 3 of the decks that I regularly run include green and it is probably the most run color in my meta. These guys have been great at connecting for me.
Opposition I actually have yet to see the card. It is in there but I havent drawn it yet. I sort of feel like it is somewhat similar to Turbulent Dreams but it isnt a one shot effect. The downside is that you might want to drop a few chumps in early but ideally you just tap like 1 guy to get an opening somewhere. I dont think I would want to try to use it to tap down like 3+ guys on a board. It also seems like it could be good to starve opponents from their card draw as you just use the guys you dropped in last turn to tap their creatures during their upkeep. I will let you know how it goes though once I actually draw the card.
Merfolk Spy has also been good for me. I like randomly peeking at opponents cards. Plus its an extra prowl option. Islandwalk is a bit harder to make work for me but he has been alright so far.
EDIT: Well I just posted this yesterday so I cant drop another update yet so I will edit this post for now with the updates: I plan on getting several more test games with this list tonight so I just want to get it working right before that.
ADDS: Arbor Elf I am going to test him out. I added a few more fetchlands to try to get me the ravnica shockland which he can operate with. Hopefully he will pan out. Mana Leak another counterspell. Considering how quickly this deck operates this counter should work fine for what I need it to do. Priest of Titania fast mana. I had been running Azusa which I did sort of like but the 3 mana creatures are sort of a bad spot for this deck. Pushing Priest in brings down the curve and she can still produce a lot of mana. I am not going too crazy on the elfball strategy but she comes in early and produces multiple mana once Edric is in so I think that is good enough to merit a trial period.
CUTS: Venser, Shaper Savant too much mana to cast. I was using him sort of as a counterspell as well which was sad as it doesnt actually strip the card from their hand and he costs too much to keep up as an option. Opposition Earthcraft feels better for the deck considering it is cheaper to cast and it provides me with mana making the 1 drop guys free. I just dont see myself getting as much use out of this as I would want. Azusa, Lost but Seeking I like her other than the fact that she comes down in the 3 mana slot. She can replace most of her cost but 3 mana slot is tough.
Ok I got a few games in last night, anyways, anyone who is reading Donald's Edric thread which is where we tend to put all of the good stuff should be covered on how it went already. Obviously it wasn't an ideal situation for Edric and my partner's decklist blew. Anyways I got some good ideas from the games anyways.
CUTS: Trinket Mage I had hoped that this was going to work out better. When he is a 3 drop that goes to get memnite he is too slow. Sure he is a fallback plan but he isnt a great one. I decided that he isnt good enough to stay in the list. I had really hoped that he would do better but we keep slimming down the curve and 3 is a bit high for what he does. Eternal Witness honestly I dont really feel like I need to recover any one card in this deck. Sure the card advantage to it is nice but I might as well use the coiling oracle that just draws me another threat and can ramp my early game. The witness feels too slow here and there are too few targets that I could recur that would make a difference. This card feels too reactive rather than proactive for the speed that this deck wants to go. Jhessian Infiltrator cutting it in favor of a 1 mana evasive instead. Faster is better. I have plenty of rogues to trigger prowl yet without him. Spell Crumple honestly this card hasnt been in the list and I dont know offhand what is in for its spot currently. My list is still off by a good 5 cards or so. Even with proxies in lol. I need to sit down at home and get it straightened out. I want a cheaper coutnerspell instead though. 3 mana is too much for the deck. I will leave Forbid alone for the time being because it is so funny to buyback. But I am sort of eyeing it at its 3 mana mark.
ADDS: Eladamri, Lord of Leaves I have been having trouble with spot removal of Edric. This guy keeps me with a beater who gives shroud plus forestwalk which is a great combo to allow my mana critters to begin swinging in as well. The important part is the seamless entry of Edric as there is no window to respond to the equip of some of the other shroud equipment here. Cloak and Dagger free to equip and it gives shroud and power. Seems promising. I dont really like how this could gimp my start a bit but I need some protection from spot removal currently. Flusterstorm This is actually a gem for this deck. It will force the cost of any spell up by at least 2 mana and it stops tuck, spot removal, and wrath. It seems very promising for the one mana to cast it. Veil of Birds another evasive beater. I love me my flying early game.
That is 3: 3cc cards and 1: 2cc card out and 2: 2cc cards and 2: 1cc cards coming in. Speeding it up FTW
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I thought about cutting Eternal Witness with my last round of cuts. It might still be the right call but having a regrowth effect that you can target with creature tutors is really strong. I'd also recommend giving Mothdust Changeling a try. He's a rogue to enable prowl on Notorious Throng and an elf for cards like Priest of Titania and he almost always has flying the turn you cast Edric.
Ok I have another set of cuts. Some of the cards were sort of highlighted when Donald listed some of his updates.
CUTS Burgeoning it has been lackluster. I don't like how it doesn't ramp you right when you want it. Exploration is undoubtedly better in an opening hand as you can drop a second land in and play your one drop still. Earthcraft I have to admit I still sort of like this card in here. Sadly though it does slow down my opening hand speed and it isn't really necessary really in the later game. While extra mana is fun it doesn't work within the parameters that this deck needs. It doesn't win the game for me so out it goes. Cloak and Dagger As others have said it sort of sucks if you dont get it in play on turn 2. I dont like having to actually pay mana to equip it so meh. I didnt actually get arround to playing it but I am bringing up my counterspell count which I hope to work in its place. Joraga Warcaller I found that it is hard to really use the kicker option in this deck. In the early game I need one drops. In the later game I need to do multiple things in a turn. I decided that I would be better off with some evasive guy instead as a 1/1 for G with no abilities or evasion really sucks.
ADDS: Force Spike another counter. Hopefully it will work out for me in here. I should be pushing the wraths into the early game here. Mothdust Changeling he isnt entirely evasive on his own but he can be by simply dropping a 1 mana drop or I can just swing him into the open board. He flies the turn Edric comes in as well so he has his uses. Spiketail Drakeling donald has had some good results from his testing so I figure I will give him a shot. He comes in earlier than the archmage and still has the flying and counter options. Wirewood Hivemaster I have meant to give this guy a spin. I like how I get to kick extra guys into play for free off of my elves which I seem to be getting more and more of as well.
Has anyone tried Wirewood Herald in here? I like how when he dies we can go get lord of leaves which seems sweet but I don't know short of clamping him how we plan on having him die. I suppose swing him at a board and people might want to stop the card draw. He could be used as a backup plan to go get Edric if he gets tucked as well so he seems like he could be alright.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Joraga Warcaller isn't very good without Gaea's Cradle. Again, whether or not you have access to cradle will totally change how you build this deck. I'm playing Frantic Search largely because of Gaea's Cradle. I've considered cutting Garruk though.
How has Lotus Petal worked out for you? I'm actually trying Elvish Spirit Guide, largely because having the extra mana to feed into a counterspell that they *can't* see seems amazing, whereas they can play around Petal. And I can imagine situations where I'd cast the Spirit Guide just for the elfness. I haven't drawn ESG yet to see if it's actually good though, and I presume I could play both. Do you feel that Lotus Petal is consistently better than a land?
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Joraga Warcaller isn't very good without Gaea's Cradle. Again, whether or not you have access to cradle will totally change how you build this deck. I'm playing Frantic Search largely because of Gaea's Cradle. I've considered cutting Garruk though.
How has Lotus Petal worked out for you? I'm actually trying Elvish Spirit Guide, largely because having the extra mana to feed into a counterspell that they *can't* see seems amazing, whereas they can play around Petal. And I can imagine situations where I'd cast the Spirit Guide just for the elfness. I haven't drawn ESG yet to see if it's actually good though, and I presume I could play both. Do you feel that Lotus Petal is consistently better than a land?
Generally I would rather my opponents play around what they know than to try to surprise them. If you have to surprise them that means you had to actually use the counterspell and cannot bluff that you have one when you do not. Also this leaves you then tapped out for any following opponents who then know that you are out of steam. Deterrence from using it is usually better than surprising them and having it in my mind.
Other things I like about the Lotus Petal over the guide:
max handsize issues. I dont like holding onto cards in hand when I could throw them into play. This deck does tons of drawing and I dont see a reason to have to throw anything away when instead I could have something free in play.
it can provide me either color which can be important in the very early game. I would love to always have my mana setup but sometimes I dont and I like how it can give me blue if I need it.
EDIT: while I would love a cradle in here... I have modified the list to the point that I dont feel like I really need it in the deck. I find that the moxes are a lot more needed for the deck than the cradle is which is why I am currently proxying them up as I would be more willing to obtain them for this list.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
You've convinced me that Lotus Petal is better than Elvish Spirit Guide here. If I like the Petal, I might try ESG as well though.
As far as "need" Gaea's Cradle, that depends on how you define need. Cradle is the second best card in this deck, after Notorious Throng. It's substantially better than the moxes. But if you want to proxy moxes but not Cradle, I understand. I don't proxy Tabernacle or Moat, despite them being good cards in some of my decks, because I can't imagine myself actually spending that much money for a card.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I just realized that I might want to change Looter il-Kor to be a Silhana Ledgewalker. Part of the reason the looter is still in here is that it is a rogue with evasion giving me an option for the prowl cast. If I change to the ledgewalker I increase my elf count and maintain the rogue part of the card and the ledgewalker still has evasion.
Do you feel that those interactions are enough to give up shadow and loot on connect for essentially flying when attacking or am I reading too much into a few elf synergies in a 100 card deck?
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I would play the Ledgewalker over Looter, as she's essentially unblockable. However, I think you'd rather just play a 1 mana evasive creature instead. Maybe Grayscaled Gharial?
Personally, I'd play a tempo card in its place like Tangle Wire, Snap, or Frantic Search.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I would play the Ledgewalker over Looter, as she's essentially unblockable. However, I think you'd rather just play a 1 mana evasive creature instead. Maybe Grayscaled Gharial?
Personally, I'd play a tempo card in its place like Tangle Wire, Snap, or Frantic Search.
Ok I think I will try out a few more things:
CUTS: Looter il-Kor I have enough rogues without this guy. I want a faster threat so another 1 drop evasive instead. Survival of the Fittest it is in here primarily to search for Edric when he gets tucked. I am hoping that Frantic Search might be decent in its place as it gives me a chance to dig for some counterspells or tutors.
ADDS: Grayscaled Gharial another evasive. I think I have enough rogues to connect as is and I like 1 drop evasives. Frantic Search this seems like it is mainly to untap the cradle but I think it could be good for me to search for some counterspells quickly as well. I will see how it plays.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Have you had any issues with resolved creatures? I know he's expensive but I've had a lot of success with Sower of Temptation as a tutorable and relatively cheap way to deal with opposing threats or to simply clear a path for my weenies. I'm not a fan of Gilded Drake in this deck but the Sower doesn't give them a blocker and is effectively 2 creatures for you, one of which will definitely have evasion.
Have you had any issues with resolved creatures? I know he's expensive but I've had a lot of success with Sower of Temptation as a tutorable and relatively cheap way to deal with opposing threats or to simply clear a path for my weenies. I'm not a fan of Gilded Drake in this deck but the Sower doesn't give them a blocker and is effectively 2 creatures for you, one of which will definitely have evasion.
Honestly I havent had any issue with opponents dropping blockers. There is almost always an open board as they want cards so they swing their utility guys somewhere to draw cards. If they do have blockers I just swing all but Edric (assuming he will die) at the board with the least threats. Then I just drop whatever fuel I draw back into play.
My biggest issue so far has been spot removal and wraths. My meta is very control oriented and there are very few blue control decks (there is one nin player other than that most control decks are white and black oriented)
I have given Sower of Temptation a bit of though but my problems lie in removal not blockers currently. If that changes sometime in the forseeable future I might change my tactic but currently it is not the problem that I encounter when I do encounter problems.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yeah, if you haven't been running into trouble with creatures there's no reason to add in Sower. People on MTGO tend to play creature heavy decks so that is probably why I've been running into issues. Also Kaalia is very popular as a general right now to the point that I'm running into one every other game and having her swinging in every turn threatening to drop Iona is pretty bad for me. I hope to live the dream soon of stealing her then swinging in next turn dropping Mothdust Changeling :P.
lol I think my entire meta gave up on Iona like a year back. I think I briberied it out against the mono W guy and at that point people stopped playing it. I used to have it in my Captain Sisay deck way back in the day but people have gone too far towards not running mono colored decks in my meta so it has been hard to effectively use anymore. Someone dropping it off of Kaalia sounds scary though.
I don't get this concept. We had a guy try to play this a couple of weeks ago, but after being annihilated game after game, he finally made another deck.
How is this deck supposed to work? Why are you guys obsessed with 1 drop creatures for this?
lol believe me when I say that I didnt believe this tactic would work at first either. Ok so here is the basic strategy for the deck is to drop a bunch of dorks in early and start some card draw off of Edric. Once you get the card draw going keep mana up to counter any attempt to wrath the board. Using a few guys like Cursecatcher and Spiketail Hatchling you can stall opposing wrath effects which draws you more cards. Once the card draw comes rolling in keep mana open to counter wrath attempts and just profit dropping extra turn effects as you draw them. This deck just hits critical mass so quickly that it often just goes off before people get done setting up. It seems jank but man it works well.
We are obsessed with 1 drop guys because the more we can drop before Edric comes in the more cards we draw. Once the lolz card draw starts going off you want your guys to be cheap to drop because you will be drawing a lot of them. Once you are rolling just keep mana up to protect your board.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
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Ok so I am really getting into this deck. We have had some fantastic discussion on the decklist in Donald's post. The consensus was to run a very very low mana curve evasive creatures. You will notice currently I only have
2 creatures above the 4 mana mark and I run some 15 or so 1 mana drops to really try to run the deck quickly(wow that's outdated lol). Powering the deck out right from the getgo is the strategy that will be used here. Get rolling and back yourself up with some countermagic to try to just steamroll opponents.1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
CREATURES (33)
1 Memnite
1 Arbor Elf
1 Cloud Pirates
1 Cloud Sprite
1 Cursecatcher
1 Elvish Pioneer
1 Flying Men
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Grayscaled Gharial
1 Jukai Messenger
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Marsh Boa
1 Martyr of Frost
1 Merfolk Spy
1 Mothdust Changeling
1 Scryb Sprites
1 Shanodin Dryads
1 Skyshroud Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Treetop Scout
1 Willow Dryad
1 Wingcrafter
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Zephyr Sprite
1 Zodiac Rabbit
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Priest of Titania
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Spiketail Hatchling
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Winter Orb
1 Tangle Wire
ENCHANTMENT (3)
1 Exploration
1 Veil of Birds
1 Beastmaster Ascension
INSTANT (15)
1 Flusterstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Noxious Revival
1 Spell Pierce
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
1 Daze
1 Delay
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Snap
1 Unified Will
1 Force of Will
SORCERY (6)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Notorious Throng
1 Capture Of Jingzhou
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 High Market
1 Thran Quarry
12 Forest
11 Island
Looking through my list you will notice I have no Primeval Titan or Avenger of Zendikar. I guess my big question is how needed are they in here? Obviously Primeval Titan isnt ever really a bad pull but he costs a lot to come down and I have to ask how much land we are trying to ramp to? Avenger is an army in a can but as I feel like he makes every green list I make I sort of wonder how this one would be without him.
Also, I would love to add Force of Will... sadly I dont own any and cannot afford to buy one. Same for Gaea’s Cradle and Mana Drain. While I am sure both of them deserve a spot... they will go on the wishlist for now because I just dont have the resources to obtain them.
EDIT: Ohhh by the way I scalped most of my list off of Donald and Tedv. Thanks for all the discussion on the lists as it has been very useful in making some of my decisions.
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[Modern] Allies
EDIT: Sorry I have made a bunch of updates that are documented on Donald's page lol. For now I am just trying to get my list looking as good as possible to start with. Once I get the list running I will worry moreso about documenting changes. I cut a few of the utility guys that I didnt feel would be as good at connecting to opponents in order to allow a bit more utility into the deck. That brings the creature numbers under 40 and I plan on adding a few more counterspells and perhaps a few more utility cards.
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[Modern] Allies
I love how aggressive this deck is and while it may look a bit haphazard it is very effective. It isnt a perfect machine but if your opponents dont push you off of your early game very quickly you will run them over.
My first partial game was a heads up vs Animar. It was very funny as he was slow rolling as he has a bad deck. We ended up dropping the game though as it was during our M12 sealed event and we had to start another round. I had him though and he knew it.
I got a partial game that was a 4 player round in which I managed to peel a mox on my turn 2 and drop Edric in. The match went really well and I think it was mine to win as 2 of my opponents ran like 0-2 wrath effects and the other a handfull. I managed to get my swarm going and had my opponents swinging at each other due to Edric's card drawing. I had a few counters in hand and I was up to mana to hold them open as an option. I think it would have been a favorable game but we had to scrap it due to food that showed up. Yumm mexican. (yes we did play EDH in guads lol)
In my first full game I played a heads up against my own Jenara decklist. He got a bit mana screwed and was trying to push lands out but had some to work with. I used some of my evasive forestwalkers to connect as well as the fact that he tapped out several times with Jenara in play facing down my Vendilion Clique. He finally got going a bit but I managed to pull an Overrun and just run him over.
My second full game was a 3 player game against my Karrthus deck and a Zedru decklist. Again I managed to peel a mox and I was off to a lolz start. I got some quick early game card draw going and dropped a Tangle Wire in behind my Vengevine on my turn 4. After the wire was gone I had flipped Erayo, Soratami Ascendant with several counterspells in hand. I just ran them over and it was a blast.
The final game I did was a rematch against Zedru and Karrthus. Unfortuantely I got screwed on my land and my hand went down to like 5 cards if I can remember right. The hand looked slow and bad but I was already at 5 so it was hard to do much about it. I slow rolled Edric out on turn 3 with only one other creature in play. I swung and drew a card. Zedru passed his turn and Karrthus dropped a Damnation. Zedru responed with a Chaos Warp on Edric and I was off to a bad start. I dropped the last few chumps I had in hand into play and just slow rolled to nothing. Karrthus dropped in and swung at me 4 rounds in a row to kill me. I managed to chump once with a flyer but it didnt matter. I got blown out it cant really be helped though at a 5 card hand in such a fast deck though.
Altogether I was very impressed by the first draft of this deck. I will continue to adjust the list to try to improve it. Some card feedback from my games as follows:
CUTS:
Boreal Druid tapping for colorless mana has been a lot less useful than I thought it would be in here. I am going to cut him for some different 1 drop probably. I would rather have another utility or evasive one drop than this guy.
Gilded Drake too responsive for the deck. I need a more proactive approach than a reactive approach and this guy is as reactive as it gets.
Lotus Cobra I havent had good results here. As Tedv pointed out he is at his best with all of the fetchlands and exploration cards you can get your hands on. I do think I will bring up my fetchland count to include the other zendikar options but that only brings it up to 3.
Trygon Predator too slow. His evasion can be mimicked in one drops and I don't really need the utility for the deck.
Phyrexian Metamorph another guy who is too responsive. Copying 1 drop creatures for 3 mana and 2 life seems really fail. He is going out.
Night Soil it is too slow to get started. I like how it is great to rebuild but it doesnt help in the start of the game which is a turnoff in my book.
Turbulent Dreams I have drawn it a few times and sadly I just haven't really wanted it yet. It isn't necessarily bad but I guess if it were instant speed I would like it more.
Vengevine he costs a bit too much to drop in. I love his whole ability to rez off of creature casts but honestly if someone wraths me I will be hurting plenty enough that rezing this guy probably wont make or break my comeback. Being at 4 mana hurts a bit much.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa too slow. I would hate to opening hand this guy as he takes lolz mana to drop and lolz mana to activate. If I were to drop him in I would be tapped out. He just doesnt seem like he would pan out.
Avenger of Zendikar too slow to drop. I love me some army in a can but Edric already does it sooooo well that I just dont need it.
Reliquary Tower haven't needed it and colorless mana hurts. I think I will cut it out for another fetchland.
Inkmoth Nexus I have yet to want to activate this and I have little other infect support. I am taking it out due to it tapping for colorless in favor of another fetchland.
ADDS:
Wirewood Symbiote gives some extra spot removal protection to Edric.
Martyr of Frost counterspell on a stick. Again it is another guy that encourages people not to wrath me and buys me some time. As long as I have cards in hand and mana open I can counter and it is on a stick so in it goes.
Skyshroud Ranger I am willing to test the whole Elf thing out a bit. Extra lands into play are always good as well.
Joraga Warcaller doing a bit of the whole elf thing. I like how I can drop him as a 1/1 for G on my opening turn or I can make him big for a buffed army later on.
Willow Dryad another evasive dork.
Trinket Mage Skullclamp is probably the best draw engine in the deck when Edric is MIA. The mage gives me a way to pull it up. If everything is going well I can just peel a memnite off of him and get 2 guys for 3 mana.
Survival of the Fittest this gives me a chance to dig Edric back up from a tuck. It also allows me to cycle off some of the smaller guys later in the game for something better if I want.
Spell Pierce another wrath protection. I like how I can cast this for less mana and it should be very effective still.
Exploration Extra mana in the early game is gamebreaking. I like how it replaces itself as you just drop another land so it increases your tempo and doest slow your turn one play.
Vendilion Clique I tried it out and I have liked it so far. The fact that it has flash is nice and I can peek at the control players hand and try to strip out their wraths / tutors seems good too. I cant say it is perfect but I like it.
Scalding Tarn more fixing. I want to hit my dual lands as fast as possible.
Verdant Catacombs more fixing. I want to fix my land base quickly.
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[Modern] Allies
I'm particularly curious how you like Memnite, the forestwalkers, and Opposition.
Memnite - I have yet to regret ever getting him. There is often an open board somewhere. If opponents have creatures in play they often want to be card drawing as well and so someone usually taps their only creature to swing somewhere. I see a lot of slower opponents in my meta as we are used to playing more drawn out EDH games so I have yet to have an issue with the blockers issue. Once I get the good card draw going the fact that he is free to drop is great. I just added Trinket Mage as well which I sort of hope to make even more use of memnite with as I can get 2 creatures in for 3 mana which is decent and it is a good backup plan for peeling a skullclamp out in an emergency. So far I have to say I really approve of running this guy. He feels a bit like some of the crazy mana accel that we use in this deck as since he is free he can really make a difference in how explosive your opening hand is.
Forestwalkers - I would have to say a good 80% of my opposition runs multicolored decks and at least 70% or so of decks in our meta run green in them. All 3 of the decks that I regularly run include green and it is probably the most run color in my meta. These guys have been great at connecting for me.
Opposition I actually have yet to see the card. It is in there but I havent drawn it yet. I sort of feel like it is somewhat similar to Turbulent Dreams but it isnt a one shot effect. The downside is that you might want to drop a few chumps in early but ideally you just tap like 1 guy to get an opening somewhere. I dont think I would want to try to use it to tap down like 3+ guys on a board. It also seems like it could be good to starve opponents from their card draw as you just use the guys you dropped in last turn to tap their creatures during their upkeep. I will let you know how it goes though once I actually draw the card.
Merfolk Spy has also been good for me. I like randomly peeking at opponents cards. Plus its an extra prowl option. Islandwalk is a bit harder to make work for me but he has been alright so far.
EDIT: Well I just posted this yesterday so I cant drop another update yet so I will edit this post for now with the updates: I plan on getting several more test games with this list tonight so I just want to get it working right before that.
ADDS:
Arbor Elf I am going to test him out. I added a few more fetchlands to try to get me the ravnica shockland which he can operate with. Hopefully he will pan out.
Mana Leak another counterspell. Considering how quickly this deck operates this counter should work fine for what I need it to do.
Priest of Titania fast mana. I had been running Azusa which I did sort of like but the 3 mana creatures are sort of a bad spot for this deck. Pushing Priest in brings down the curve and she can still produce a lot of mana. I am not going too crazy on the elfball strategy but she comes in early and produces multiple mana once Edric is in so I think that is good enough to merit a trial period.
CUTS:
Venser, Shaper Savant too much mana to cast. I was using him sort of as a counterspell as well which was sad as it doesnt actually strip the card from their hand and he costs too much to keep up as an option.
Opposition Earthcraft feels better for the deck considering it is cheaper to cast and it provides me with mana making the 1 drop guys free. I just dont see myself getting as much use out of this as I would want.
Azusa, Lost but Seeking I like her other than the fact that she comes down in the 3 mana slot. She can replace most of her cost but 3 mana slot is tough.
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[Modern] Allies
CUTS:
Trinket Mage I had hoped that this was going to work out better. When he is a 3 drop that goes to get memnite he is too slow. Sure he is a fallback plan but he isnt a great one. I decided that he isnt good enough to stay in the list. I had really hoped that he would do better but we keep slimming down the curve and 3 is a bit high for what he does.
Eternal Witness honestly I dont really feel like I need to recover any one card in this deck. Sure the card advantage to it is nice but I might as well use the coiling oracle that just draws me another threat and can ramp my early game. The witness feels too slow here and there are too few targets that I could recur that would make a difference. This card feels too reactive rather than proactive for the speed that this deck wants to go.
Jhessian Infiltrator cutting it in favor of a 1 mana evasive instead. Faster is better. I have plenty of rogues to trigger prowl yet without him.
Spell Crumple honestly this card hasnt been in the list and I dont know offhand what is in for its spot currently. My list is still off by a good 5 cards or so. Even with proxies in lol. I need to sit down at home and get it straightened out. I want a cheaper coutnerspell instead though. 3 mana is too much for the deck. I will leave Forbid alone for the time being because it is so funny to buyback. But I am sort of eyeing it at its 3 mana mark.
ADDS:
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves I have been having trouble with spot removal of Edric. This guy keeps me with a beater who gives shroud plus forestwalk which is a great combo to allow my mana critters to begin swinging in as well. The important part is the seamless entry of Edric as there is no window to respond to the equip of some of the other shroud equipment here.
Cloak and Dagger free to equip and it gives shroud and power. Seems promising. I dont really like how this could gimp my start a bit but I need some protection from spot removal currently.
Flusterstorm This is actually a gem for this deck. It will force the cost of any spell up by at least 2 mana and it stops tuck, spot removal, and wrath. It seems very promising for the one mana to cast it.
Veil of Birds another evasive beater. I love me my flying early game.
That is 3: 3cc cards and 1: 2cc card out and 2: 2cc cards and 2: 1cc cards coming in. Speeding it up FTW
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[Modern] Allies
CUTS
Burgeoning it has been lackluster. I don't like how it doesn't ramp you right when you want it. Exploration is undoubtedly better in an opening hand as you can drop a second land in and play your one drop still.
Earthcraft I have to admit I still sort of like this card in here. Sadly though it does slow down my opening hand speed and it isn't really necessary really in the later game. While extra mana is fun it doesn't work within the parameters that this deck needs. It doesn't win the game for me so out it goes.
Cloak and Dagger As others have said it sort of sucks if you dont get it in play on turn 2. I dont like having to actually pay mana to equip it so meh. I didnt actually get arround to playing it but I am bringing up my counterspell count which I hope to work in its place.
Joraga Warcaller I found that it is hard to really use the kicker option in this deck. In the early game I need one drops. In the later game I need to do multiple things in a turn. I decided that I would be better off with some evasive guy instead as a 1/1 for G with no abilities or evasion really sucks.
ADDS:
Force Spike another counter. Hopefully it will work out for me in here. I should be pushing the wraths into the early game here.
Mothdust Changeling he isnt entirely evasive on his own but he can be by simply dropping a 1 mana drop or I can just swing him into the open board. He flies the turn Edric comes in as well so he has his uses.
Spiketail Drakeling donald has had some good results from his testing so I figure I will give him a shot. He comes in earlier than the archmage and still has the flying and counter options.
Wirewood Hivemaster I have meant to give this guy a spin. I like how I get to kick extra guys into play for free off of my elves which I seem to be getting more and more of as well.
Has anyone tried Wirewood Herald in here? I like how when he dies we can go get lord of leaves which seems sweet but I don't know short of clamping him how we plan on having him die. I suppose swing him at a board and people might want to stop the card draw. He could be used as a backup plan to go get Edric if he gets tucked as well so he seems like he could be alright.
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[Modern] Allies
How has Lotus Petal worked out for you? I'm actually trying Elvish Spirit Guide, largely because having the extra mana to feed into a counterspell that they *can't* see seems amazing, whereas they can play around Petal. And I can imagine situations where I'd cast the Spirit Guide just for the elfness. I haven't drawn ESG yet to see if it's actually good though, and I presume I could play both. Do you feel that Lotus Petal is consistently better than a land?
Generally I would rather my opponents play around what they know than to try to surprise them. If you have to surprise them that means you had to actually use the counterspell and cannot bluff that you have one when you do not. Also this leaves you then tapped out for any following opponents who then know that you are out of steam. Deterrence from using it is usually better than surprising them and having it in my mind.
Other things I like about the Lotus Petal over the guide:
max handsize issues. I dont like holding onto cards in hand when I could throw them into play. This deck does tons of drawing and I dont see a reason to have to throw anything away when instead I could have something free in play.
it can provide me either color which can be important in the very early game. I would love to always have my mana setup but sometimes I dont and I like how it can give me blue if I need it.
EDIT: while I would love a cradle in here... I have modified the list to the point that I dont feel like I really need it in the deck. I find that the moxes are a lot more needed for the deck than the cradle is which is why I am currently proxying them up as I would be more willing to obtain them for this list.
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[Modern] Allies
As far as "need" Gaea's Cradle, that depends on how you define need. Cradle is the second best card in this deck, after Notorious Throng. It's substantially better than the moxes. But if you want to proxy moxes but not Cradle, I understand. I don't proxy Tabernacle or Moat, despite them being good cards in some of my decks, because I can't imagine myself actually spending that much money for a card.
Currently in my list the following cards have interaction with elves:
Wirewood Symbiote
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
Priest of Titania
Wirewood Hivemaster
Do you feel that those interactions are enough to give up shadow and loot on connect for essentially flying when attacking or am I reading too much into a few elf synergies in a 100 card deck?
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[Modern] Allies
Personally, I'd play a tempo card in its place like Tangle Wire, Snap, or Frantic Search.
Ok I think I will try out a few more things:
CUTS:
Looter il-Kor I have enough rogues without this guy. I want a faster threat so another 1 drop evasive instead.
Survival of the Fittest it is in here primarily to search for Edric when he gets tucked. I am hoping that Frantic Search might be decent in its place as it gives me a chance to dig for some counterspells or tutors.
ADDS:
Grayscaled Gharial another evasive. I think I have enough rogues to connect as is and I like 1 drop evasives.
Frantic Search this seems like it is mainly to untap the cradle but I think it could be good for me to search for some counterspells quickly as well. I will see how it plays.
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[Modern] Allies
Honestly I havent had any issue with opponents dropping blockers. There is almost always an open board as they want cards so they swing their utility guys somewhere to draw cards. If they do have blockers I just swing all but Edric (assuming he will die) at the board with the least threats. Then I just drop whatever fuel I draw back into play.
My biggest issue so far has been spot removal and wraths. My meta is very control oriented and there are very few blue control decks (there is one nin player other than that most control decks are white and black oriented)
I have given Sower of Temptation a bit of though but my problems lie in removal not blockers currently. If that changes sometime in the forseeable future I might change my tactic but currently it is not the problem that I encounter when I do encounter problems.
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[Modern] Allies
EDIT: Ohhh and also Triumph of the Hordes -> Walk the Aeons. I have found the extra turns to be better than the overruns
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[Modern] Allies
How is this deck supposed to work? Why are you guys obsessed with 1 drop creatures for this?
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
We are obsessed with 1 drop guys because the more we can drop before Edric comes in the more cards we draw. Once the lolz card draw starts going off you want your guys to be cheap to drop because you will be drawing a lot of them. Once you are rolling just keep mana up to protect your board.
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[Modern] Allies
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I thought you said the dude that tried this out in your meta was annihilated time after time.