I knew as soon as I saw the five new legends that I was going to want to make a deck for each of them. I've been plinking away at all five, and this is the first one I've finished.
Talrand is easily one of the strongest 2/2 legendaries I've seen in awhile, albeit in a completely passive sort of way. He takes what blue does best, casting sorceries and instances, and turns them into what green, red and white usually do better, cranking out tokens. Under the right circumstances, those tokens can literally control the field, and being 2/2 flying creatures makes them incredibly durable, especially if you get out things like Adaptive Automaton or Favorable Winds.
There aren't, and it is something I am considering working on, though I haven't really run into too many issues with mana yet. Granted, I only play in casual formats, but still.
All great suggestions. I have a sol ring and actually didn't even think about it, kind of a dumb move on my part. I will look at getting a few of those and update it soon, thanks for the suggestions!
If I were building this deck, I would want to run like 10-15+ 1-2 mana cantrips, so you can just rip through your deck cranking out tokens. That way you hit your bigger draw spells, and your land drops every turn, and you draw into whatever answers you need to problems.
2/2 flyers for U are really good when they draw a card too.
I would make the game plan be: drop lands/Protection (Spellskite, Greeves, ect) early, play Talrand, then next turn try to make like 10 power worth of guys off cantrips and just control the game from that position, if you make a few more guys along the way great. But I would be wary of Wrath effects.
Most of the creatures seem pretty weak, especially when there are spells that do what they do (void stalker => Spin to myth).
To make room for the cantrips, I would cut most of the 6+ cmc guys and some of the more expensive counter spells.
With that many Snow Covered Island you should really be running mana doublers as well. Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power and Caged Sun all come to mind. Especially if you want to play your big bad spells and still have counter mana ready.
Another suggestion I have is taking out Talrand's Invocation when you get the chance to. It's horribly ineffective in this format considering it effectively gains potentially 3 drakes. It's not powerful or repeatable in any light. And not that cheap to boot.
I just made this list up over the last hour or so, trying to abuse more of the cheap Flying Flash 2/2's for U.
The metagame slots are pretty debatable obviously. You probably might want to put more stealing cards in.
I think Consecrated Sphinx might be better as an actual cheaper draw spell, but its so solid, I left it for now.
I think this deck is much more powerful if you set up the game plan of: Talrand > cheap cantrips > protect your board, and this plan is better than any random 6 drops that don't have as much synergy.
If you keep the curve lower, then you also do not need more ramp. You can just rely on hitting land drops from all the cantrips. I almost wonder about cutting a few more lands, and adding a few more cantrips/meta slots.
I also wonder if there are like 2-3 more ways to boost the drakes more.
I want to respond to other stuff, but for now I will just respond to the comment about Talrand's Invocation. While it does seem horribly inefficient, you aren't looking at possible ways of using it, two of which I have actually had happen (granted, I need to think of ways to tutor to make sure it happens more often, but I digress...); The first involves Tamiyo and her final bomb. In a game I managed to get her bomb off and was able to cast it, sometimes repeatedly, every turn until the game ended. Another interesting way to use it is with twincast and Arcane Melee out. For basically four mana you can net yourself six 2/2 drakes.
The mana issue is one I am aware of, and those are great suggestions. I am kind of on a financial hold right now when it comes to cards, so I can't go out and purchase anything new for the time being, but I fully intend on removing some of the creatures as well as investing in more ramp for my mana. Thanks for the responses!!!
I just made this list up over the last hour or so, trying to abuse more of the cheap Flying Flash 2/2's for U.
The metagame slots are pretty debatable obviously. You probably might want to put more stealing cards in.
I think Consecrated Sphinx might be better as an actual cheaper draw spell, but its so solid, I left it for now.
I think this deck is much more powerful if you set up the game plan of: Talrand > cheap cantrips > protect your board, and this plan is better than any random 6 drops that don't have as much synergy.
If you keep the curve lower, then you also do not need more ramp. You can just rely on hitting land drops from all the cantrips. I almost wonder about cutting a few more lands, and adding a few more cantrips/meta slots.
I also wonder if there are like 2-3 more ways to boost the drakes more.
I really like that list, and it does solve some of the issues with mana. When I get more time I will sit down and work on updating this list to be a little more streamlined. It is definitely a faster list.
I've been running Talrand myself since it was announced. It's great in DotP 2013, but in EDH it's still better off being replaced with time magic, counterspells, cantrips or something that produces a repeatable effect with minor power. I tried it myself for a couple of weeks, but it just didn't produce anything useful. Looking at TI in regards to Tamiyo's ultimate, well, it's a bad way of looking at it. Anyone that lets you get Tamiyo's ultimate (or just about any ultimate for that matter) is either winning that turn anyway or an idiot. Or not able to stop it, in which case it's game over anyway. Basically put, there would be infinitely better options for tamiyo's ultimate than just making three drakes for 4 mana. Capsize without buyback, scry 3, tutor for the next card, draw a card, bounce a permanent; there are way better options that produce even more drakes than Tal's Invo. 1-2 mana cmc cards would be much more effective because they produce an additional result. Also, let's be honest; Arcane Melee is a great card. Most cards you play with it are going to be great (4mana capsize? Yes please!). Twincasting Invo, bleh. Twincast Call to Mind or some big bad Time Magic (Time Stretch, Time Warp, etc), Basically, the bigger and badder the spell you twincast the better. Talrand's Invo is not that powerful, so a lot of twincast's deadliness is lost on it.
I would advised replacing it with Mystic Speculation, which is repeatable and often powerful. With Arcane Melee it effectively says Pay U to dig for a win condition and make a drake however much you want. This makes more drakes with Tamiyo's Ultimate, or a stronger effect with Arcane Melee. If you're mana flooded, put all the mana on bottom. If you're mana screwed, put all the high cmc cards on bottom. Either way you win.
Edit*
As far as tutors, Mystical Tutor and Merchant Scroll are the most easily playable ones. Great cards, these two.
Also, check out my deck list here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=429726
You may get a few ideas.
I might just do that, Guardian is a great store. I usually go to either Nexus in Gresham or Red Castle in SE, as they are somewhat closer to me. I have been looking at expanding my base though, as right now I only play with a handful of people.
Been to Red Castle, it's a solid. I like their new store. Nexus is fantastic for single prices. Best in the area by far. At Guardian on Thursdays, there's usually a few dozen people there for EDH. Starts around 4, ends at around 9. Afterwards a bunch of us go to Denny's nearby and play til 1-ish. Plus, if you're 21+, on the third thursday of every month is Beer and Pizza night. Fun times.
I am 21+ lol, though I work Fridays, unfortunately. Still, definitely piqued my interest, I may have to try and slot it in and come check it out.
Nexus/Jeff is absolutely fantastic for singles, plus he has such a massive selection, I always seem to find what I need there when I can't find it anywhere else.
Have you considered Bösium Strip? I swear not enough people play that card. It goes pretty well with Scrabbling Claws or any kind of pinpoint GY hate, just to make sure the top of your graveyard is a spell you can recast.
With this many tokens, Polymorph and Proteus Staff are absurdly powerful. I would drop Ring of Evos Isle and Favorable Winds. Find room for Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Gilded Lotus if you can. I'll echo everyone else and say drop the Invocation.
In my experience, using equipment and enchantments to protect Talrand goes badly but I play in a heavy mass removal environment so it might be different. I would ditch those cards for more counterspells to protect him, especially cantripping counterspells like Dismiss or Exclude. Cantripping, cheap EOT instants are what make this deck absurdly powerful.
I would drop these 11 creatures (keeping Stormtide and Teferi)
Sakishma, the Imposter is fantastic though. She doesn't legend-rule Talrand, so you get two drakes each instant/sorcery. With all your creatures being super awesome, you can Proteus Staff/Polymorph your drake tokens into huge things.
Coat of Arms seems like it could be rediculous, or it could kill us just as fast. But it seems like it could alpha strike the table pretty quickly. 6 Drakes will deal 42 damage to a player if left unchecked. 11 Drakes deal 132 damage in an alpha strike to take out over 3 people, assuming noone has been damaged in the game yet.
Yeah, I had considered coat of arms myself after looking over everyone's suggestions. I am going to work on totally revamping the list (at least making a rough sketch, I can't afford to go out and buy some of the cards right now, but maybe some time down the line.) Also based on everyone's suggestions I am itching to load it into Cockatrice and give it a try there, so as I make changes and do that I will let you all know how it handles.
I am thinking about building the deck, since I have probably 95% of the cards already after taking apart a tefari deck a few months ago., and it seems fun.
I was curious what you thought about the skeleton of the deck that I outlined (pretty much everything except for the metagame slots.)
The version I want to build after looking at every suggestion here is actually going to be a hybrid between some of what you presented in the deck frame you made, as well as some of what other people suggested. For the most part what you presented is pretty solid, and to be honest if I had those cards I don't know if I would necessarily change much. I do like the idea of using Sakishma, due to the fact that she can copy Talrand and not kill each other, the extra drake every spell seems worth it. Magus of the Future or Futuresight could also be a great addition, allowing for the extra card 'in hand' as it were, but without playing I won't know how useful that will really be (my brother runs a legacy mono blue deck that uses Futuresight and he just kicks so much ass with that extra card available to him.) Of course ramping up my mana is going to be a huge asset, as is focusing on having more cantrips, which my initial version of the deck was a little light on. I guess ultimately the bottom line will come down to actual playtesting though, for both what you suggested and what I come up with, to see what works and what doesn't, or at least doesn't work well.
Your list is pretty solid. I'd suggest dropping the Greaves, as Talrand doesn't need Haste. Adaptive Automaton is a good remove as well, perhaps replace it for Gauntlet of Power or Caged sun, Preferably both. Mana ramp is great with mono blue; allows for more control or more drakes. Again, probably both. Also, if you're running mostly or all Snow-Covered Islands, I'd highly suggest running Extraplanar Lens. Not a lot of people run snow-covered islands so it's just mana ramp for the few that do, including yourself. Exiling one land is way more than worth it.
Those are the big suggestions. Other than that, remove Talrand's Invocation, add in Time Magic (Time Warp, Time Stretch, Temporal Mastery if budget allows). Taking extra turns is really great for Talrand. Lastly, add Mystic Speculation. 3cmc drake that scrys 3? Hell yeah!
Your list is pretty solid. I'd suggest dropping the Greaves, as Talrand doesn't need Haste. Adaptive Automaton is a good remove as well, perhaps replace it for Gauntlet of Power or Caged sun, Preferably both. Mana ramp is great with mono blue; allows for more control or more drakes. Again, probably both. Also, if you're running mostly or all Snow-Covered Islands, I'd highly suggest running Extraplanar Lens. Not a lot of people run snow-covered islands so it's just mana ramp for the few that do, including yourself. Exiling one land is way more than worth it.
Those are the big suggestions. Other than that, remove Talrand's Invocation, add in Time Magic (Time Warp, Time Stretch, Temporal Mastery if budget allows). Taking extra turns is really great for Talrand. Lastly, add Mystic Speculation. 3cmc drake that scrys 3? Hell yeah!
Damn, yeah time magic. You know, I drew 2 temporal masteries in one pack when I bought my box (one was foil) and I sold them both haha, back when they were still going for 70 dollars a pop.
Greeves is there to protect Talrand, I expect him to be a removal magnet, and being able to equip for free seems like its going to be important.
As far as the mana doublers go - I wonder if I am even going to need them. My curve caps out at 5ish for the most part. And it seems like if I am tapping out on turn 5/6 for a mana doubler, I am not making drakes, and I am not protecting Talrand. Nor am I protecting the mana doubler (which get a lot of hate quick here). I hate Extraplanr Lens, people love to destroy that thing and 2/1 you.
I also will probably eventually add in a few more lands like High Market to protect Talrand from tuck effects, since my build is extremely reliant on having him in play. Without access to Talrand, I am just drawing cards with no other threats.
Future Sight/Magus are 2 of the cards I am wondering about though. With all the deck manipulation that I am running, it could get pretty crazy pretty fast if I am able to untap with one of them in play. I think that Magus is probably going to be too fragile to expect to untap with though, so more looking at future sight over one of the draw spells.
I think I am going to change one of the meta slots to a Time Warp, probably invocation. It seems like a very powerful way to knock one or more players out of the game.
Talrand is easily one of the strongest 2/2 legendaries I've seen in awhile, albeit in a completely passive sort of way. He takes what blue does best, casting sorceries and instances, and turns them into what green, red and white usually do better, cranking out tokens. Under the right circumstances, those tokens can literally control the field, and being 2/2 flying creatures makes them incredibly durable, especially if you get out things like Adaptive Automaton or Favorable Winds.
The Deck:
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
CREATURES: 13
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Grand Architect
1x Guile
1x Willbender
1x Archaeomancer
1x Stormtide Leviathan
1x Adaptive Automaton
1x Sakashima the Imposter
1x Magus of the Future
1x Consecrated Sphinx
PLANESWALKER: 1
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
SORCERIES: 10
1x Call to Mind
1x Blatant Thievery
1x Sleep
1x Switcheroo
1x Talrand's Invocation
1x Divination
1x Rite of Replication
1x Stolen Goods
1x Reminisce
1x Distant Melody
1x Polymorph
1x Bribery
1x Knowledge Exploitation
1x Spell Crumple
1x Stoic Rebuttal
1x Time Stop
1x Desertion
1x Negate
1x Fuel for the Cause
1x Unsummon
1x Peel from Reality
1x Twincast
1x Syncopate
1x Enchantment Alteration
1x Aura Graft
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Cancel
1x Turn Aside
1x Mana Leak
1x Mana Short
1x Spell Syphon
1x Dissipate
1x Counterspell
1x Capsize
1x Redirect
1x High Tide
1x Rewind
1x Power Sink
1x Exclude
1x Mana Drain
1x Sol Ring
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Proteus Staff
1x Caged Sun
1x Coat of Arms
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Gilded Lotus
ENCHANTMENTS: 5
1x Confiscate
1x Arcane Melee
LANDS:
35x Snow-Covered Island
EDIT: A few minor changes, it won't add up to 100 cards right now, will finish updating/changing as am able.
2/2 flyers for U are really good when they draw a card too.
I would make the game plan be: drop lands/Protection (Spellskite, Greeves, ect) early, play Talrand, then next turn try to make like 10 power worth of guys off cantrips and just control the game from that position, if you make a few more guys along the way great. But I would be wary of Wrath effects.
Most of the creatures seem pretty weak, especially when there are spells that do what they do (void stalker => Spin to myth).
To make room for the cantrips, I would cut most of the 6+ cmc guys and some of the more expensive counter spells.
Gravitational Shift seems pretty good too.
Another suggestion I have is taking out Talrand's Invocation when you get the chance to. It's horribly ineffective in this format considering it effectively gains potentially 3 drakes. It's not powerful or repeatable in any light. And not that cheap to boot.
1 Talrand
Cheap Drakes
1 Brainstorm
1 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Serum visions
1 Portent
1 Impulse
1 Telling Time
1 Opt
1 Slight of Hand
1 Visions of Beyond
1 Quicken
1 Peek
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sorcerous Sight
1 Disrupt
1 Obsessive search
1 Twisted Image
1 Fleeting distraction
1 Whispers of the Muse
1 Reach through the mists
Draw Spells
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Compulsive Research
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Recurring Insight
1 Distant Melody
1 Concentrate
1 Gush
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Talrand's Invocation
1 Spin Into Myth
1 Pognify
1 Evacuation
1 Devastating tide
1 Switcheroo
1 Sleep
1 Unsummon
1 Vapor Snag
1 Into the Roil
1 Capsize
1 Propaganda
1 Crawlspace
1 Powder Keg
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Snapcaster Mage
Drake Pumpers
1 Grand Architect
1 Favorable Winds
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Gravitational Shift
Protect Talrand
1 Spellskite
1 Willbender
1 Champions Helm
1 Lightning Greeves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Turn Aside
1 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Pact of Negation
1 Counterspell
1 Spell Crumple
1 Hinder
1 Rewind
Mana
34 Island
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
I just made this list up over the last hour or so, trying to abuse more of the cheap Flying Flash 2/2's for U.
The metagame slots are pretty debatable obviously. You probably might want to put more stealing cards in.
I think Consecrated Sphinx might be better as an actual cheaper draw spell, but its so solid, I left it for now.
I think this deck is much more powerful if you set up the game plan of: Talrand > cheap cantrips > protect your board, and this plan is better than any random 6 drops that don't have as much synergy.
If you keep the curve lower, then you also do not need more ramp. You can just rely on hitting land drops from all the cantrips. I almost wonder about cutting a few more lands, and adding a few more cantrips/meta slots.
I also wonder if there are like 2-3 more ways to boost the drakes more.
The mana issue is one I am aware of, and those are great suggestions. I am kind of on a financial hold right now when it comes to cards, so I can't go out and purchase anything new for the time being, but I fully intend on removing some of the creatures as well as investing in more ramp for my mana. Thanks for the responses!!!
I really like that list, and it does solve some of the issues with mana. When I get more time I will sit down and work on updating this list to be a little more streamlined. It is definitely a faster list.
I would advised replacing it with Mystic Speculation, which is repeatable and often powerful. With Arcane Melee it effectively says Pay U to dig for a win condition and make a drake however much you want. This makes more drakes with Tamiyo's Ultimate, or a stronger effect with Arcane Melee. If you're mana flooded, put all the mana on bottom. If you're mana screwed, put all the high cmc cards on bottom. Either way you win.
Edit*
As far as tutors, Mystical Tutor and Merchant Scroll are the most easily playable ones. Great cards, these two.
Also, check out my deck list here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=429726
You may get a few ideas.
By the way, you live in Beaverton? I'm in Portland, lol. Good stuff.
Nexus/Jeff is absolutely fantastic for singles, plus he has such a massive selection, I always seem to find what I need there when I can't find it anywhere else.
But yeah, come by on Thursday. Look for James, I'll be playing Talrand all night, prolly. Just ask around, someone should know me.
Edit: Also, why not Future Sight or Magus of the Future?
B Xiahou Dun, The One-Eyed
U Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
UB Ramses Overdark
In my experience, using equipment and enchantments to protect Talrand goes badly but I play in a heavy mass removal environment so it might be different. I would ditch those cards for more counterspells to protect him, especially cantripping counterspells like Dismiss or Exclude. Cantripping, cheap EOT instants are what make this deck absurdly powerful.
I would drop these 11 creatures (keeping Stormtide and Teferi)
1x Grand Architect
1x Djinn of Wishes
1x Void Stalker
1x Guile
1x Roil Elemental
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Willbender
1x Archaeomancer
1x Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1x Adaptive Automaton
1x Master Thief
For these 7 creatures
Consecrated Sphinx (Sphinx of the Magosi if budget)
Spellskite
Magus of the Future
Phyrexian Metamorph (Clone if budget)
Sakishma the Imposter (Body Double if budget)
Solemn Simulacrum (Mana rock/doubler if budget)
Tidespout Tyrant
And any 4 instants/sorceries (Knowledge Exploitation, Bribery, Walk the Aeons, etc.)
Sakishma, the Imposter is fantastic though. She doesn't legend-rule Talrand, so you get two drakes each instant/sorcery. With all your creatures being super awesome, you can Proteus Staff/Polymorph your drake tokens into huge things.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436442
Coat of Arms seems like it could be rediculous, or it could kill us just as fast. But it seems like it could alpha strike the table pretty quickly. 6 Drakes will deal 42 damage to a player if left unchecked. 11 Drakes deal 132 damage in an alpha strike to take out over 3 people, assuming noone has been damaged in the game yet.
I was curious what you thought about the skeleton of the deck that I outlined (pretty much everything except for the metagame slots.)
Any changes you see there?
Those are the big suggestions. Other than that, remove Talrand's Invocation, add in Time Magic (Time Warp, Time Stretch, Temporal Mastery if budget allows). Taking extra turns is really great for Talrand. Lastly, add Mystic Speculation. 3cmc drake that scrys 3? Hell yeah!
Damn, yeah time magic. You know, I drew 2 temporal masteries in one pack when I bought my box (one was foil) and I sold them both haha, back when they were still going for 70 dollars a pop.
As far as the mana doublers go - I wonder if I am even going to need them. My curve caps out at 5ish for the most part. And it seems like if I am tapping out on turn 5/6 for a mana doubler, I am not making drakes, and I am not protecting Talrand. Nor am I protecting the mana doubler (which get a lot of hate quick here). I hate Extraplanr Lens, people love to destroy that thing and 2/1 you.
I also will probably eventually add in a few more lands like High Market to protect Talrand from tuck effects, since my build is extremely reliant on having him in play. Without access to Talrand, I am just drawing cards with no other threats.
Future Sight/Magus are 2 of the cards I am wondering about though. With all the deck manipulation that I am running, it could get pretty crazy pretty fast if I am able to untap with one of them in play. I think that Magus is probably going to be too fragile to expect to untap with though, so more looking at future sight over one of the draw spells.
I think I am going to change one of the meta slots to a Time Warp, probably invocation. It seems like a very powerful way to knock one or more players out of the game.