I purchased the Kaalia precon a while ago and have continually tinkered with it since cracking it open. It has become a pretty effective deck for me, but I wanted to post my decklist on here and see if anyone has any recommended inclusions that I haven't thought of yet. I also have a Griselbrand that I have yet to put into the deck, but will do so when I make my next revisions.
About the Deck:
This deck is designed to be aggro, dropping out a fatty creature or two as quick as possible to force the opponents' hand immediately. An ideal opening consists of dropping a turn 1 or turn 2 mana accel card to get Kaalia cast on turn 3.
My goal is to avoid any infinite combo or instant-win crazinesss, but to instead just cheat into play fatty creatures with awesome abilities as quickly as possible. The beauty of Angels, Demons, and Dragons is that many of them have evasion or trample already, making them effective attackers.
Cards Cut: Void - Other removal in the deck is superior Scroll Rack - I want card draw rather than finding specific cards... Kaalia just wants some fodder!
Her white form isn't all that great, even with the zero cost. The Memorial gives EVERYBODY her stats. Akroma, Angel of Fury, OTOH, can be a beast. (We were just having this conversation in another thread.)
Also, for a creature freebie General, it seems like you need more creatures. Only 23? (22 after the above change.)
-1 Chaos Warp (too random; white has best spot removal)
-1 Oblivion Ring (do you really need this much spot removal?)
-1 Void (too specific)
-1 Scroll Rack (never really had good luck with this one; top/ball is better)
-1 Night Dealings (I don't see this getting used more than once)
-1 Runed Halo (only protects you, not your creatures)
(What the hell did you RL MTG players do to Portal? Did you hate it so much that you had deck burning bonfires to get rid of the cards, thus increasing the rarity and prices? Did people mail back their fat packs to WotC in droves, demanding refunds?)
Her white form isn't all that great, even with the zero cost. The Memorial gives EVERYBODY her stats. Akroma, Angel of Fury, OTOH, can be a beast. (We were just having this conversation in another thread.)
Also, for a creature freebie General, it seems like you need more creatures. Only 23? (22 after the above change.)
-1 Chaos Warp (too random; white has best spot removal)
-1 Oblivion Ring (do you really need this much spot removal?)
-1 Void (too specific)
-1 Scroll Rack (never really had good luck with this one; top/ball is better)
-1 Night Dealings (I don't see this getting used more than once)
-1 Runed Halo (only protects you, not your creatures)
Thanks so much for your suggestions! Take a look at the following comments and let me know what you think!
Cards I'll Be Cutting: Void - I agree that Void is too specific when I've got so much other removal. Scroll Rack - I actually have had great luck with this card, and love it... but it probably is better suited in a control deck or a deck that really needs to get to specific cards. With Kaalia... I just need a fatty to shoot at someone! Phyrexian Arena is just better.
Moving to Sideboard: Runed Halo - This is better suited as a SB card. My meta has a Mimeoplasm player as well as a Uril player. So I definitely want to keep this card handy!
Maybe Cutting: Chaos Warp - I really prefer this card to Oblation. I know the possible permanent drop can suck, but many times I'd rather take that risk than give the players at my table 2 more cards. Is Oblation a card you'd consider removing as well? I'd probably like to keep one or the other.
Not Ready To Part With: Akroma, Angel of Wrath - The players in my meta commonly play black and/or red. In fact, almost always I find that ALL my opponents at our table have at least either black or red in any given game. On paper, I agree that she is much weaker than many of my other Angels, Demons, and Dragons; however, at my table she tends to end up being nearly unblockable, and Vigilance with pro-colors works wonders for me. Due to the players at my table, I don't think I can part with her. Oblivion Ring - O Ring is another hard one for me to let go. Planeswalkers are common in my meta, and I really like having the option to hit them, an opposing general, or just plain anything I want. Night Dealings - This is another card I've had amazing luck with. I've used it to bring back Kaalia multiple times when she's been put back into my library! This one I just can't bring myself to part with.
Swapping In: Phyrexian Arena - Definitely need to include this! Totally spaced on it. Thanks for reminding me! Whispersilk Cloak - Also a card that should already be in there. Protects Kaalia and makes her unblockable! What's not to like? Oros, the Avenger - I have a love/hate relationship with this guy. On paper he SHOULD be super useful as a partial board wipe in my favor. He was actually in my older build of this deck, but I just never ended up using his ability. I think I did once ever. Since I'm swapping out 3 cards, he'll go back in for now, but will probably get dropped back out for one of the following.
Have To Acquire Still: Avacyn, Angel of Hope & Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - both auto-includes... just haven't gotten any out of my Avacyn boxes yet! Probably just going to buy them... Akroma's Memorial - I totally forgot about this Future Sight goodie! Unfortunately, I traded mine away years ago! Will have to pick up a new one for sure!
Already in Sideboard: Tariel, Reckoner of Souls - I currently keep him as a sideboard card. He wasn't doing super great things for me except for when a certain Mimeoplasm player is at the table.
Alas, Griselbrand recently got banned in EDH. I'm now trying Sublime Archangel instead. Should help Kaalia get in the redzone with less risk of dying, or so I hope.
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
As I looked over your creature list, I began to wonder just how high your avg. cmc might be. So, I ran your decklist through deckstats.net, and as it turns out your avg. cmc is 4.29, which is, imho, too high, even for a Kaalia deck. You're currently running 8 6-drops, 6 7-drops, 5 8-drops, and 3 9-drops. That's sort of a curve, but it's one that absolutely guarantees that if Kaalia gets removed too many times, which she assuredly will if you're relying on her this heavily, or worse yet tucked, you are going to be up mana creek without a paddle.
Cuts that spring immediately to mind:
1) 6-drops: Oros, the Avenger, who is nice for flavor and some utility, but is a pretty "meh" beater and a mana sink for situational removal. Mordant Dragon can definitely go, as Balefire Dragon does what he does way better. I would probably also lose Duplicant. As much as I love this guy, he's way worse here than he is in other decks, you can't cheat him in with Kaalia, and you have access to SO much cheap spot removal.
2) 7-drops: Angelic Arbiter is "meh" all around. Nix him. Bladwing the Risen is a pretty terrible beater and situational and therefore mediocre recursion. I don't think you need the Plainscycling Eternal Dragon, and outside of that he's pretty weaksauce. Kilnmouth Dragon should just go.
3) 8-drops: Vampiric Dragon is the obvious choice. After that, it's probably Bogardan Hellkite, although he's actually a decent creature, so I can't really encourage you to drop him with the same fervor as this other stuff.
4) 9-drops: Demon of Death's Gate, because you don't need a vanilla beater for 9 mana. After that, I would personally lose Reya Dawnbringer because she sucks for beating face and has to last a turn around the table in order to have any effect.
Some cheap (budget-wise and cmc-wise) stuff that would help fill out these slots and improve your deck might include: Talisman of Indulgence, which is a great fixer; Charcoal Diamond, Fire Diamond, and Marble Diamond, which I personally love and think are often overlooked; Nihil Spellbomb for GY hate with a cantrip; Harvester of Souls for more draw; aaandd... that's all I've got right now.
Chaos Warp is a good tuck card, even though your opponent could draw something else. It should be kept, because you want ways to stop generals.
I'm surprised Night Dealings is doing well for you. I guess your playgroup doesn't have enchantment destruction.
Fellwar Stone - Usually a bad choice when playing at a random table, but my playgroup is extremely black/red-heavy, so this is almost always a Black/Red mana rock for me.
Would it be worth swapping out Everflowing Chalice for Coldsteel Heart or Talisman of Indulgence? I like the opportunity to get more mana out of the Chalice, but I also like the guaranteed colored mana. At the moment I'm thinking Coldsteel Heart wins out. What do you guys think?
Slayers' Stronghold - I thought about this one, but I wasn't sure how practical it would be with Kaalia. Her tougheness would still be 2, keeping her quite easy to kill. Although this would be nice on some of the fatties she drops out. I think I'll probably put this in and give it a try. Do you all think that's worthwhile?
Night Dealings - Honestly, I was a little surprised too. Although, in a black/red-heavy playgroup, enchantment destruction is more rare than it should be. There is a green player as well, but Night Dealings really has come through for me so far.
Would it be worth swapping out Everflowing Chalice for Coldsteel Heart or Talisman of Indulgence? I like the opportunity to get more mana out of the Chalice, but I also like the guaranteed colored mana. At the moment I'm thinking Coldsteel Heart wins out. What do you guys think?
Yes. Chalice doesn't help you hit your colors any faster to drop Kaalia earlier. Heart and Talisman do.
Slayers' Stronghold - I thought about this one, but I wasn't sure how practical it would be with Kaalia. Her tougheness would still be 2, keeping her quite easy to kill. Although this would be nice on some of the fatties she drops out. I think I'll probably put this in and give it a try. Do you all think that's worthwhile?
Yes. I think it was recommended that you swap it in for Sunhome, which leaves Kaalia's toughness at 2, as well. Much more reasonable activation cost, and another haste enabler is nice. The bigger question is how many colorless sources can your deck tolerate?
1) 6-drops: Oros, the Avenger, who is nice for flavor and some utility, but is a pretty "meh" beater and a mana sink for situational removal. Mordant Dragon can definitely go, as Balefire Dragon does what he does way better. I would probably also lose Duplicant. As much as I love this guy, he's way worse here than he is in other decks, you can't cheat him in with Kaalia, and you have access to SO much cheap spot removal.
2) 7-drops: Angelic Arbiter is "meh" all around. Nix him. Bladwing the Risen is a pretty terrible beater and situational and therefore mediocre recursion. I don't think you need the Plainscycling Eternal Dragon, and outside of that he's pretty weaksauce. Kilnmouth Dragon should just go.
3) 8-drops: Vampiric Dragon is the obvious choice. After that, it's probably Bogardan Hellkite, although he's actually a decent creature, so I can't really encourage you to drop him with the same fervor as this other stuff.
4) 9-drops: Demon of Death's Gate, because you don't need a vanilla beater for 9 mana. After that, I would personally lose Reya Dawnbringer because she sucks for beating face and has to last a turn around the table in order to have any effect.
Some cheap (budget-wise and cmc-wise) stuff that would help fill out these slots and improve your deck might include: Talisman of Indulgence, which is a great fixer; Charcoal Diamond, Fire Diamond, and Marble Diamond, which I personally love and think are often overlooked; Nihil Spellbomb for GY hate with a cantrip; Harvester of Souls for more draw; aaandd... that's all I've got right now.
Mordant Dragon - Balefire Dragon is definitely much better. I will pick one of these up immediately. I think this was the only mythic I didn't get out of Innistrad.
Duplicant - I have better removal than him. If he was a Clone-like creature without a target I'd keep him, but as-is I think I can do better. Perhaps a Grand Abolisher? What do you guys think?
Bladwing the Risen - He's definitely mediocre recursion when I have to pay out my arse for him, although with the free drops from Kaalia, I've had some fun with him quite a few times. I agree that he's one of the weaker creatures in my package though. I think I'll keep him for now, but he's definitely on the fence.
Eternal Dragon - I've actually had good experiences with him. I know he's a weaksauce beater compared to other Dragons, but the turn 2 tutor for a dual land, as well as built-in recursion has made him useful more than once.
Kilnmouth Dragon - He's usually dropped as an 8/8 when I've used him. An 8/8 with tap for 3 damage isn't super-powerful, but he's come in handy a couple times. Although he is situational. I think he's on the fence for now too, but will keep him until I get some more Avacyn and M13 cards.
Vampiric Dragon - I kind of like him for the ping ability. Although I would never, EVER want to pay 8 mana for him. I think I like him less than Kilnmouth, and would drop him out before Kilnmouth.
Harvester of Souls - Definitely would like to swap this card in immediately. Would you swap him for Vampiric Dragon or Demon of Death's Gate?
Mana Rocks - I probably want to stay around approx 8 mana rocks. Not including Land Tax, I have 7 as-is. I might swap out the Chalice and add both Talisman of Indulgence and Coldsteel Heart. How many lands would you suggest running with 8 mana rocks and a Land Tax?
Nihil Spellbomb - I wrestled with using this card or Tormod's Crypt. Tormod's Crypt won out at the time because I had a foil Timeshifted version, haha. Probably should run both though...
Also, what do you guys think about me running the following cards? Hide/Seek
Yes. I think it was recommended that you swap it in for Sunhome, which leaves Kaalia's toughness at 2, as well. Much more reasonable activation cost, and another haste enabler is nice. The bigger question is how many colorless sources can your deck tolerate?
I actually don't have either in the deck at the moment. So the debate would be whether or not to take out a colored mana-source land for a Sunhome.
Also, I just realized I'm a moron and definitely need to put a Gilded Lotus in this deck...
Duplicant - I have better removal than him. If he was a Clone-like creature without a target I'd keep him, but as-is I think I can do better. Perhaps a Grand Abolisher? What do you guys think?
Harvester of Souls - Definitely would like to swap this card in immediately. Would you swap him for Vampiric Dragon or Demon of Death's Gate?
Nihil Spellbomb - I wrestled with using this card or Tormod's Crypt. Tormod's Crypt won out at the time because I had a foil Timeshifted version, haha. Probably should run both though...
Also, what do you guys think about me running the following cards? Hide/Seek
I very much like Grand Abolisher. He can give you a couple really productive combat steps that might otherwise get borked, and often that's all you really need.
Harvester of Souls is a decent body that people often don't want to block, and usually draws a surprising amount of cards in the amount of time he's out. I'd replace either Vampiric Dragon or Demon of Death's Gate with him. Which one? I dunno... it's kind of a tossup. They're both relatively weak imho.
I like Nihil Spellbomb better than Tormod's Crypt for the cantrip. Whether you need both depends on your meta and your tutor suite.
Hide // Seek is actually an interesting card that I hadn't considered before. Probably better for 1v1 applications than multiplayer, so if that's your main application, try it out.
I totally just stumbled upon this thread, looks like it's been pretty active today. Kind of interesting I noticed your location reads Vancouver, Wa, as that is where I will be moving in a month or two.
(Really this post is mostly going to seem like a placeholder for my sig, which has a link to a very well-written Primer on this very general, and contains my thoughts on a number of cards you are thinking about using in your deck). Normally I would type these suggestions out, but I've already got them typed out over there.
Thanks for taking the time to type of such a detailed article on your deck! Based on your arguments and descriptions, I have the following comments and questions. Please let me know what you think. Everyone else is encouraged to chime in as well! Please keep in mind that I usually play 3-player FFA or 4-player 2HG...
Tithe - I really like your idea of using this instead of Land Tax. I know Land Tax potentially can get more lands, but this guarantees dual lands as well as frees up the option to swap out basic lands for come-into-play-tapped-unless... lands
Volrath's Stronghold - I really need to suck it up and just cough up $20 for this card! It's too good in this deck to not have!
Jeweled Amulet - This is a card I didn't even know existed. Definitely want to get one to add to the mana rocks in the deck. Would it be inappropriate to swap it out for a land and run 37 lands instead of 38?
Moonveil Dragon & Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis - I really like these guys! I will probably replace some of the "on the fence" creatures mentioned in previous posts with these 2.
Defense Grid - Do you find that this doesn't hinder your removal much? It forces you to cast your removal at sorcery speed, which doesn't completely ruin many cards in my build except Condemn. I think I'd like to give it a try... but will have to pick one up first.
Vampiric Tutor - Another SUPER awesome card that I need to cough up $20 for. If I had to choose between this and Volrath's Stronghold, which one would you recommend picking up first?
Rakdos the Defiler - How well does he work in multiplayer games. Obviously the first hit is devastating to someone, but is it worth sacrificing your own permanents to hit someone else? I'm concerned he could become a single-swing only attacker for me in multiplayer.
Hall of the Bandit Lord - How does the life loss fare in multiplayer games? Obviously haste on Kaalia is amazing, but 3 life per tap can get painful!
Ajani Vengeant - I know you SB him out in a multiplayer game, but he does have some powerful control abilities. Do you really think he has no place in a multiplayer match?
Thanks for taking the time to type of such a detailed article on your deck! Based on your arguments and descriptions, I have the following comments and questions. Please let me know what you think. Everyone else is encouraged to chime in as well! Please keep in mind that I usually play 3-player FFA or 4-player 2HG...
Tithe - I really like your idea of using this instead of Land Tax. I know Land Tax potentially can get more lands, but this guarantees dual lands as well as frees up the option to swap out basic lands for come-into-play-tapped-unless... lands
Volrath's Stronghold - I really need to suck it up and just cough up $20 for this card! It's too good in this deck to not have!
Jeweled Amulet - This is a card I didn't even know existed. Definitely want to get one to add to the mana rocks in the deck. Would it be inappropriate to swap it out for a land and run 37 lands instead of 38?
I'm not sure I would cut a land for it directly as it doesn't work like a real mana rock conventionally would, but I only run 36 lands in my deck. Granted, I may be able to cheat on that number with the optimal fixing I am blessed with. I definitely wouldn't recommend cheating on lands if you are playing budget options. At first glance, Rupture Spire and the Vivid lands can go, they suck for a deck that wants to be fast like this(note: this will be a recurring theme with me, I aim to win as fast as possible as I play mostly 1v1. It's my inner-R Mage, ha).
You also look like you still need a Badlands, but I'm sure you're already well-aware of that.
And yes, based on having only six basics, Land Tax isn't all that fantastic here so Tithe is my "go-to" ramp spell(yes, I know it doesn't actually ramp). Also, you can crack a fetchland, then in response cast Tithe to ensure you get the second land off of it, even if you played first.
Moonveil Dragon & Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis - I really like these guys! I will probably replace some of the "on the fence" creatures mentioned in previous posts with these 2.
Yeah, these two rock pretty fierce. Also amazing has been Thundermaw Hellkite. That guy is the real deal.
Defense Grid - Do you find that this doesn't hinder your removal much? It forces you to cast your removal at sorcery speed, which doesn't completely ruin many cards in my build except Condemn. I think I'd like to give it a try... but will have to pick one up first.
I find that every once in awhile it can be annoying, but what is more annoying, getting KaaliaHinder'd? Or waiting until your turn to kill something? Ultimately, I have found that I can generally wait to remove things on my own turn, most of the time. And if something is really threatening...then I guess I need to pay the extra 3 or else I just lose.
Yeah, I run three sweepers and a plethora of spot removal, but all my removal is versatile/tuck/or exile. If I wanted DoJ...I think I would go back to playing Rout(which I cut a few months back for Terminus as I value tuck higher than destroy). I can also set up Terminus via my Vampiric Tutor.
Vampiric Tutor - Another SUPER awesome card that I need to cough up $20 for. If I had to choose between this and Volrath's Stronghold, which one would you recommend picking up first?
I'm probably gonna say the Stronghold, as it's something I use fairly frequently, as both a recursion tool and a lock piece. It's also going to be harder to find a Stronghold due to only one printing, than it will be to find a Vampiric.
Bladewing and Reclamation seem the most suspect to be replaced(I eat a fair portion of my life total already so seeing a Reclamation already makes my life dwindle even faster). And Bladewing just isn't as good as Karmic Guide as he's more limited in what he brings back, and he costs more mana to boot!
Rakdos the Defiler - How well does he work in multiplayer games. Obviously the first hit is devastating to someone, but is it worth sacrificing your own permanents to hit someone else? I'm concerned he could become a single-swing only attacker for me in multiplayer.
Hall of the Bandit Lord - How does the life loss fare in multiplayer games? Obviously haste on Kaalia is amazing, but 3 life per tap can get painful!
Ajani Vengeant - I know you SB him out in a multiplayer game, but he does have some powerful control abilities. Do you really think he has no place in a multiplayer match?
Rakdos works great to close out a dwindling game, or keep the one guy who's been ramping uncontrollably in check. I just let him loose on the guy who poses the greatest threat to me, and if I need him again, I just sac and recur with my Stronghold.
As for Hall it is the best land in my deck. Not just for Kaalia, but also for Steel Hellkite, Balefire Dragon, and of course Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis. I use it fairly frequently(again, just like a R Mage, always moving frantically) to keep my game plan going without hiccups.
I don't like Planeswalkers in multiplayer because it is really hard to get a chance to untap with them the more people are at the table. Especially one with an ultimate like Ajani V. as that just scares people to paranoia and provokes them even more. So ask yourself this; Is Keeping a permanent tapped for a whole turn worth spending 2WR on? And for his -2, we already know Lightning Helix should only cost WR, not 2WR.
I could give you a lot of suggestions but check out my Kaalia deck linked in my signature. In my playgroup it's one of the most hated decks to play against for many reasons. It should help you on your path to perfecting Kaalia. Enjoy.
I could give you a lot of suggestions but check out my Kaalia deck linked in my signature. In my playgroup it's one of the most hated decks to play against for many reasons. It should help you on your path to perfecting Kaalia. Enjoy.
It's certainly an alright list that I'm sure does alright in your playgroup, however I noted there is a few questionable cards in there.
Lands- I guess you're working on this, though I wonder just how good the Kamigawa legendary cycle really is for you? Also, no sac outlets? Phyrexian Tower? High Market?
Akroma's Vengenace, Divine Reckoning, Austere Command, but only one 'Geddon? Living Death looks a little off, given Kaalia on average runs a lower critter count since every one of them is so backbreaking. Cataclysm seems superior to every card I listed here.
Insurrection? Really? I guess you play multiplayer, but Kaalia should have the game wrapped up before this is needed.
Sorin LoI feels weak here(your critters have 5-7 power, who cares if you get an extra +1)?
Darksteel Ingot is bad here because it doesn't ramp you into our magnificient lady any quicker, and Shield/Plate are generally a bit too slow for us to make optimal use of. Ultimately your Swords are "win-more" too, as all this deck needs is an active Kaalia to win. A sword doesn't help that goal at all.
Some two drop rocks like the MIR diamonds would be perfect here to accelerate into t3 general.
Aggravated Assault, Debtor's Knell, and True Conviction feel like they are entirely unneeded. Gisela doubles our damage and is free with our general, Knell is a seven mana enchantment that you should never be allowed to untap with if your playgroup is smart, and Aggravated is only good with the SoFaF. Gratuitous Violence is pretty win-more as well(and this is coming from someone who played all of these cards before at one point or another).
Fervor I guess is alright. Not stellar but it is what it is. Land Tax is fine here as you actually have basics to fetch out, unlike mine where I only have like six.
Your critters are where I would want to focus the most help, tbh.
Herald and Aegis seem especially janky, Tariel costs too much mana when you can't cheat him out, and even if you can, four power in the air is not aggressive enough in Kaalia. The only reason why I mention Tariel and not Reya, is while they are similar, Reya at least gives you some control over what you get back. but ultimately she is probably not worth the slot either(I play her in my own multiplayer package as the whole deck goes into reanimate-mode). Ryusei and Ob-Nix aren't that great(Ob-Nix doesn't even have evasion, even! Though he is pretty cool). Arbiter and Dragon Mage I'm not really a fan of(Mage is starting to see a little more play, though only if you don't play discard spells main deck) and the two Akromas are horribly over costed for just bashing for six.
Skithiryx is a different animal himself, but ultimately fails as he doesn't contribute to the game plan because infect doesn't mesh with normal damage).
Not meaning to tear your deck down buddy, but just figured I'd offer my own advice to help you too.
I'm probably gonna say the Stronghold, as it's something I use fairly frequently, as both a recursion tool and a lock piece. It's also going to be harder to find a Stronghold due to only one printing, than it will be to find a Vampiric.
I was able to pick up a NM Volrath's Stronghold on eBay for $15 shipped to my door. All it took was 10 seconds of searching, 5 seconds of sorting, and 1 minute of hitting "Buy it Now" and going through the PayPal payment process :p.
I might recommend getting it before Vampiric Tutor, as well, simply because it's recursion ability in a land slot just can't be replaced. You can get by without really good tutors by having pretty good draw, which can be had for cheap.
Appreciate the info 3drinks, but yes, mine is based solely around heavy graveyard multiplayer decks. Thats what my group does. 3+ more players all with aggro decks. Everything in the deck works because it serves a purpose in my playgroups mass wrathing/counter decks. There can be changes to a few creatures, but the ones I have in here, probably minus Aegis and Terial (took him out just recently for something better), can be taken out for better stuff. The lands I chose for the deck really work well. I haven't updated them with newer lands except for Cavern of Souls. I don't need High Market or Phyrexian Tower because I normally don't need to sacrifice my general for anything. How it goes in my PG is that if she's out, she's bound to die from a wrath or sac effect, very rarely tucked. Almost no one ever has the ability to use her if she gets stolen.
As for the wraths I include. Only one 'geddon is needed. I REALLY hate LDing and so does my playgroup. I don't like to do to others what I get pissed about when it happens to me. I only run it when I want to just win instantly. I just show it and say, I win, without having to even play it and make the game last longer. Insurrection is a life saver in this deck. Late game when you're near death because everyone's been slowly killing you, taking all their creatures and kill them right then and there normally does it. Sorin you may not like, but he is really is just a Win More card. Even if I just get his emblem off it really is worth it. Plus he also ends up soaking up damage that my general would normally have instead.
Darksteel Plate is a must in the deck, it works on not just her, but a lot of the other bombs you want to survive after she has kicked the bucket. Shield is mediocore and can go, I just haven't found something else good. Enchantments included in the deck help as 1) redirecting targets for my equipment and 2) Win More. I've come back from so many 1 life games with True Conviction then I can count. I do think putting in the mirage charms would be good and taking out the DSI. But if you ever have a chance, try out my version in a heavy multiplayer game, you'll see how the utilities work well with multiplayer.
I was able to pick up a NM Volrath's Stronghold on eBay for $15 shipped to my door. All it took was 10 seconds of searching, 5 seconds of sorting, and 1 minute of hitting "Buy it Now" and going through the PayPal payment process :p.
I might recommend getting it before Vampiric Tutor, as well, simply because it's recursion ability in a land slot just can't be replaced. You can get by without really good tutors by having pretty good draw, which can be had for cheap.
Good deal on the land, man. I got mine from my LGS for like $9 about a year and a half ago and was so happy with it, and it, well, of course we both know it is such an amazing card.
Also agree on the assessment about prioritizing the land over the tutour for the same reasons you mentioned. With enough good draw(Moonlight Bargain style) it is fine to usually find what you need.
Appreciate the info 3drinks, but yes, mine is based solely around heavy graveyard multiplayer decks. Thats what my group does. 3+ more players all with aggro decks. Everything in the deck works because it serves a purpose in my playgroups mass wrathing/counter decks. There can be changes to a few creatures, but the ones I have in here, probably minus Aegis and Terial (took him out just recently for something better), can be taken out for better stuff. The lands I chose for the deck really work well. I haven't updated them with newer lands except for Cavern of Souls. I don't need High Market or Phyrexian Tower because I normally don't need to sacrifice my general for anything. How it goes in my PG is that if she's out, she's bound to die from a wrath or sac effect, very rarely tucked. Almost no one ever has the ability to use her if she gets stolen.
As for the wraths I include. Only one 'geddon is needed. I REALLY hate LDing and so does my playgroup. I don't like to do to others what I get pissed about when it happens to me. I only run it when I want to just win instantly. I just show it and say, I win, without having to even play it and make the game last longer. Insurrection is a life saver in this deck. Late game when you're near death because everyone's been slowly killing you, taking all their creatures and kill them right then and there normally does it. Sorin you may not like, but he is really is just a Win More card. Even if I just get his emblem off it really is worth it. Plus he also ends up soaking up damage that my general would normally have instead.
Darksteel Plate is a must in the deck, it works on not just her, but a lot of the other bombs you want to survive after she has kicked the bucket. Shield is mediocore and can go, I just haven't found something else good. Enchantments included in the deck help as 1) redirecting targets for my equipment and 2) Win More. I've come back from so many 1 life games with True Conviction then I can count. I do think putting in the mirage charms would be good and taking out the DSI. But if you ever have a chance, try out my version in a heavy multiplayer game, you'll see how the utilities work well with multiplayer.
Ahh, I guess I can't really fault you for being averse to LD. I am of the mindset if I don't do it, someone else will, so I will beat them to it. Though from where I come from, I feel if it isn't on the banlist, it's fair game, and expect others to come at me the same way. If they have some kind of a vice towards that, then that is their problem, not mine. Obv I don't just 'Geddon just for the sake of casting it, if I 'Geddon, I am going to win.
That's another thing that I noticed you seemed rather light on in your deck, was card draw. No Phyrexian Arena, or Skeletal Scrying, even? I don't know how you're able to maintain the gas without some good draw to reload with. edit: I just went back and checked and saw it there. Still think you could use a little more, but hey, don't we all need moar card draw? >_<
You also mentioned "win-more" as reasons why you play some cards. I understand it's not my place to control how some play their decks and all, but why win-more...when you can just win? It accomplishes the same goal, really. Doesn't matter if you brought them to -629, or exactly 0.
Probably comes from my competitive nature, so forgive me.
Fellwar Stone - Usually a bad choice when playing at a random table, but my playgroup is extremely black/red-heavy, so this is almost always a Black/Red mana rock for me.
Would it be worth swapping out Everflowing Chalice for Coldsteel Heart or Talisman of Indulgence? I like the opportunity to get more mana out of the Chalice, but I also like the guaranteed colored mana. At the moment I'm thinking Coldsteel Heart wins out. What do you guys think?
Slayers' Stronghold - I thought about this one, but I wasn't sure how practical it would be with Kaalia. Her tougheness would still be 2, keeping her quite easy to kill. Although this would be nice on some of the fatties she drops out. I think I'll probably put this in and give it a try. Do you all think that's worthwhile?
Night Dealings - Honestly, I was a little surprised too. Although, in a black/red-heavy playgroup, enchantment destruction is more rare than it should be. There is a green player as well, but Night Dealings really has come through for me so far.
Sorry, late to the party here. I'm sure 3drinks and sH0opdAwoOp covered some ground here.
Everflowing Chalice is "slow." You need pay 4 to get a 2 colorless from it. Both Coldsteel Heart and Talisman of Indulgence become available before that and give you colored mana. Colored mana is very important in getting Kaalia out as soon as possible to start the attack or to power up any activated abilities (i.e. Moonveil Dragon).
Fellwar Stone is ok, since your playgroup has red and black mana. Just be sure to swap it out if you go to an unknown table. It's tough when you forget to do this, which is why I recommend replacing it with one of the other mana artifacts. If you play with the same table often enough, then you can hold off changing this.
Slayers' Stronghold is an option I'm consider for Kaalia's large targets. I just put this card out there as an alternative to what you had for a land. Otherwise, put Hall of the Bandit Lord in first.
Night Dealings should be replaced with tutors or draw cards when you are able to get them. Tutors and draw cards are unconditional while Night Dealings requires combat damage first. For your table, it sounds like you can keep running this, so you don't have any rush to replace it.
In the end, as long as you are having fun, that's what matters.
Ahh, I guess I can't really fault you for being averse to LD. I am of the mindset if I don't do it, someone else will, so I will beat them to it. Though from where I come from, I feel if it isn't on the banlist, it's fair game, and expect others to come at me the same way. If they have some kind of a vice towards that, then that is their problem, not mine. Obv I don't just 'Geddon just for the sake of casting it, if I 'Geddon, I am going to win.
That's another thing that I noticed you seemed rather light on in your deck, was card draw. No Phyrexian Arena, or Skeletal Scrying, even? I don't know how you're able to maintain the gas without some good draw to reload with.
You also mentioned "win-more" as reasons why you play some cards. I understand it's not my place to control how some play their decks and all, but why win-more...when you can just win? It accomplishes the same goal, really. Doesn't matter if you brought them to -629, or exactly 0.
Probably comes from my competitive nature, so forgive me.
Only reason I haven't put in a Phyrexian Arena was because I haven't had any in stock in my collection for a while. Ill probably put it in sometime. Skeletal Scrying seems like a nice card also for all those spent spells. I'm also thinking of adding Karmic Guide and Harvester of Souls which I saw on your list. Which means I'll probably need to put in a High Market and Phyrexian Tower.
Aggravated Assault, Debtor's Knell, and True Conviction feel like they are entirely unneeded. Gisela doubles our damage and is free with our general, Knell is a seven mana enchantment that you should never be allowed to untap with if your playgroup is smart, and Aggravated is only good with the SoFaF. Gratuitous Violence is pretty win-more as well(and this is coming from someone who played all of these cards before at one point or another).
mad_hatter_md01, True Conviction is the only one of the three I would consider keeping, especially in a multiplayer game. 3drinks actually used it for a bit before Gisela was created. It costs 6, and there is no way to shortcut it unless you have Academy Rector. But, when you play True Conviction, you are going to have a huge life swing gain. It pretty much forces opponents to deal with it over your creatures.
If you get better cards, True Conviction can go out, but if you find yourself eating up a lot of life, it might be worth a slot in the deck.
True Conviction is the only one of the three I would consider keeping, especially in a multiplayer game. 3drinks actually used it for a bit before Gisela was created. It costs 6, and there is no way to shortcut it unless you have Academy Rector. But, when you play True Conviction, you are going to have a huge life swing gain. It pretty much forces opponents to deal with it over your creatures.
If you get better cards, True Conviction can go out, but if you find yourself eating up a lot of life, it might be worth a slot in the deck.
Aggravated Assault is in there really only for the one win combo. I'll most likely replace it with Phyrexian Arena when I get it. But I'm shaky on taking out Debtor's Knell. It's such a great card in my PG because it makes people focus on removing other peoples graveyards and not my own. If I can find a card that is better than it then I could consider taking it out. Same goes for True Conviction. I haven't found anything better than it to bring me back from the brink of death.
Edit: 3drinks, you must not have looked thoroughly enough. I've actually already got a Phyrexian Arena in the deck.
Wow! There's been a lot of activity here since I last posted!
Terminus - I definitely think I'd like to run this is my deck. Would you guys recommend replacing the DoJ or the Austere Command. I think I'd rather keep the Command, but thought I'd see what you all have to say?
Jeweled Amulet - So you think I should cut a nonland card for this? Or should I drop from 38 to 37 lands?
Volrath's Stronghold - I'll start looking around on Ebay to try to pick one of these up
Rupture Spire and the Vivid lands - I will swap these (and basics) out for the following:
I purchased the Kaalia precon a while ago and have continually tinkered with it since cracking it open. It has become a pretty effective deck for me, but I wanted to post my decklist on here and see if anyone has any recommended inclusions that I haven't thought of yet. I also have a Griselbrand that I have yet to put into the deck, but will do so when I make my next revisions.
About the Deck:
This deck is designed to be aggro, dropping out a fatty creature or two as quick as possible to force the opponents' hand immediately. An ideal opening consists of dropping a turn 1 or turn 2 mana accel card to get Kaalia cast on turn 3.
My goal is to avoid any infinite combo or instant-win crazinesss, but to instead just cheat into play fatty creatures with awesome abilities as quickly as possible. The beauty of Angels, Demons, and Dragons is that many of them have evasion or trample already, making them effective attackers.
Deck List:
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Angels, Demons, & Dragons (24):
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Angel of Despair
1 Angelic Arbiter
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Demon of Death's Gate
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Karmic Guide
1 Kilnmouth Dragon
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Mordant Dragon
1 Oros, the Avenger
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Vampiric Dragon
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Utility Creatures (3):
1 Duplicant
1 Mother of Runes
1 Voidstone Gargoyle
Mana Accel (8):
1 Land Tax
1 Boros Signet
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Mind Stone
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
Creature/Commander Protection (4):
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Darksteel Plate
Graveyard Recursion (2):
1 Unburial Rites
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
Spot Removal (9):
1 Chaos Warp
1 Condemn
1 Oblation
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminate
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Austere Command
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God
Tutors/Scry/Draw (6):
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Liliana Vess
1 Night Dealings
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Crystal Ball
1 Phyrexian Arena
Other Goodness (1):
1 Quicksilver Amulet
Land (38):
1 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Molten Slagheap
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
5 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Rupture Spire
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
1 Stranglehold
1 Runed Halo
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Blinding Angel
1 Promise of Power
1 Victimize
1 Reconaissance
Cards Cut:
Void - Other removal in the deck is superior
Scroll Rack - I want card draw rather than finding specific cards... Kaalia just wants some fodder!
+1 Akroma's Memorial
Her white form isn't all that great, even with the zero cost. The Memorial gives EVERYBODY her stats. Akroma, Angel of Fury, OTOH, can be a beast. (We were just having this conversation in another thread.)
Also, for a creature freebie General, it seems like you need more creatures. Only 23? (22 after the above change.)
-1 Chaos Warp (too random; white has best spot removal)
-1 Oblivion Ring (do you really need this much spot removal?)
-1 Void (too specific)
-1 Scroll Rack (never really had good luck with this one; top/ball is better)
-1 Night Dealings (I don't see this getting used more than once)
-1 Runed Halo (only protects you, not your creatures)
+1 Phyrexian Arena (you need some card refreshing, as your commander will eat through your cards fast)
+1 Whispersilk Cloak (attacking with your 2/2 with somebody with two 1/1 flyers shouldn't be a big deal)
+1 Oros, the Avenger (could potentially wipe the board; and you don't have much creatures <= 3/3)
+1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope (DUH!)
+1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight (surprise! double damage!)
+1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls (because he's also awesome)
Hey SineSwiper,
Thanks so much for your suggestions! Take a look at the following comments and let me know what you think!
Cards I'll Be Cutting:
Void - I agree that Void is too specific when I've got so much other removal.
Scroll Rack - I actually have had great luck with this card, and love it... but it probably is better suited in a control deck or a deck that really needs to get to specific cards. With Kaalia... I just need a fatty to shoot at someone! Phyrexian Arena is just better.
Moving to Sideboard:
Runed Halo - This is better suited as a SB card. My meta has a Mimeoplasm player as well as a Uril player. So I definitely want to keep this card handy!
Maybe Cutting:
Chaos Warp - I really prefer this card to Oblation. I know the possible permanent drop can suck, but many times I'd rather take that risk than give the players at my table 2 more cards. Is Oblation a card you'd consider removing as well? I'd probably like to keep one or the other.
Not Ready To Part With:
Akroma, Angel of Wrath - The players in my meta commonly play black and/or red. In fact, almost always I find that ALL my opponents at our table have at least either black or red in any given game. On paper, I agree that she is much weaker than many of my other Angels, Demons, and Dragons; however, at my table she tends to end up being nearly unblockable, and Vigilance with pro-colors works wonders for me. Due to the players at my table, I don't think I can part with her.
Oblivion Ring - O Ring is another hard one for me to let go. Planeswalkers are common in my meta, and I really like having the option to hit them, an opposing general, or just plain anything I want.
Night Dealings - This is another card I've had amazing luck with. I've used it to bring back Kaalia multiple times when she's been put back into my library! This one I just can't bring myself to part with.
Swapping In:
Phyrexian Arena - Definitely need to include this! Totally spaced on it. Thanks for reminding me!
Whispersilk Cloak - Also a card that should already be in there. Protects Kaalia and makes her unblockable! What's not to like?
Oros, the Avenger - I have a love/hate relationship with this guy. On paper he SHOULD be super useful as a partial board wipe in my favor. He was actually in my older build of this deck, but I just never ended up using his ability. I think I did once ever. Since I'm swapping out 3 cards, he'll go back in for now, but will probably get dropped back out for one of the following.
Have To Acquire Still:
Avacyn, Angel of Hope & Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - both auto-includes... just haven't gotten any out of my Avacyn boxes yet! Probably just going to buy them...
Akroma's Memorial - I totally forgot about this Future Sight goodie! Unfortunately, I traded mine away years ago! Will have to pick up a new one for sure!
Already in Sideboard:
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls - I currently keep him as a sideboard card. He wasn't doing super great things for me except for when a certain Mimeoplasm player is at the table.
• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
Consider Coldsteel Heart, Talisman of Indulgence, Fire Diamond, Marble Diamond, and Charcoal Diamond for additional 2 CMC mana artifacts
Sunhome, Fotress of the Legion eats too much mana for too little of an effect. I would suggest Slayers' Stronghold instead.
Chaos Warp is a good tuck card, even though your opponent could draw something else. It should be kept, because you want ways to stop generals.
I'm surprised Night Dealings is doing well for you. I guess your playgroup doesn't have enchantment destruction.
Cuts that spring immediately to mind:
1) 6-drops: Oros, the Avenger, who is nice for flavor and some utility, but is a pretty "meh" beater and a mana sink for situational removal. Mordant Dragon can definitely go, as Balefire Dragon does what he does way better. I would probably also lose Duplicant. As much as I love this guy, he's way worse here than he is in other decks, you can't cheat him in with Kaalia, and you have access to SO much cheap spot removal.
2) 7-drops: Angelic Arbiter is "meh" all around. Nix him. Bladwing the Risen is a pretty terrible beater and situational and therefore mediocre recursion. I don't think you need the Plainscycling Eternal Dragon, and outside of that he's pretty weaksauce. Kilnmouth Dragon should just go.
3) 8-drops: Vampiric Dragon is the obvious choice. After that, it's probably Bogardan Hellkite, although he's actually a decent creature, so I can't really encourage you to drop him with the same fervor as this other stuff.
4) 9-drops: Demon of Death's Gate, because you don't need a vanilla beater for 9 mana. After that, I would personally lose Reya Dawnbringer because she sucks for beating face and has to last a turn around the table in order to have any effect.
Some cheap (budget-wise and cmc-wise) stuff that would help fill out these slots and improve your deck might include: Talisman of Indulgence, which is a great fixer; Charcoal Diamond, Fire Diamond, and Marble Diamond, which I personally love and think are often overlooked; Nihil Spellbomb for GY hate with a cantrip; Harvester of Souls for more draw; aaandd... that's all I've got right now.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Fellwar Stone - Usually a bad choice when playing at a random table, but my playgroup is extremely black/red-heavy, so this is almost always a Black/Red mana rock for me.
Would it be worth swapping out Everflowing Chalice for Coldsteel Heart or Talisman of Indulgence? I like the opportunity to get more mana out of the Chalice, but I also like the guaranteed colored mana. At the moment I'm thinking Coldsteel Heart wins out. What do you guys think?
Slayers' Stronghold - I thought about this one, but I wasn't sure how practical it would be with Kaalia. Her tougheness would still be 2, keeping her quite easy to kill. Although this would be nice on some of the fatties she drops out. I think I'll probably put this in and give it a try. Do you all think that's worthwhile?
Night Dealings - Honestly, I was a little surprised too. Although, in a black/red-heavy playgroup, enchantment destruction is more rare than it should be. There is a green player as well, but Night Dealings really has come through for me so far.
Yes. Chalice doesn't help you hit your colors any faster to drop Kaalia earlier. Heart and Talisman do.
Yes. I think it was recommended that you swap it in for Sunhome, which leaves Kaalia's toughness at 2, as well. Much more reasonable activation cost, and another haste enabler is nice. The bigger question is how many colorless sources can your deck tolerate?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Oros, the Avenger - I agree on cutting him. He is currently just a placeholder until I get Avacyn, Angel of Hope and/or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Mordant Dragon - Balefire Dragon is definitely much better. I will pick one of these up immediately. I think this was the only mythic I didn't get out of Innistrad.
Duplicant - I have better removal than him. If he was a Clone-like creature without a target I'd keep him, but as-is I think I can do better. Perhaps a Grand Abolisher? What do you guys think?
Angelic Arbiter - I agree he's meh. I might swap him out for my sideboarded Blinding Angel.
Bladwing the Risen - He's definitely mediocre recursion when I have to pay out my arse for him, although with the free drops from Kaalia, I've had some fun with him quite a few times. I agree that he's one of the weaker creatures in my package though. I think I'll keep him for now, but he's definitely on the fence.
Eternal Dragon - I've actually had good experiences with him. I know he's a weaksauce beater compared to other Dragons, but the turn 2 tutor for a dual land, as well as built-in recursion has made him useful more than once.
Kilnmouth Dragon - He's usually dropped as an 8/8 when I've used him. An 8/8 with tap for 3 damage isn't super-powerful, but he's come in handy a couple times. Although he is situational. I think he's on the fence for now too, but will keep him until I get some more Avacyn and M13 cards.
Vampiric Dragon - I kind of like him for the ping ability. Although I would never, EVER want to pay 8 mana for him. I think I like him less than Kilnmouth, and would drop him out before Kilnmouth.
Demon of Death's Gate - Probably another card I won't really need when I get Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. Might just swap him out now for a little more control anyway. Perhaps Terminus or Hide/Seek...
Harvester of Souls - Definitely would like to swap this card in immediately. Would you swap him for Vampiric Dragon or Demon of Death's Gate?
Mana Rocks - I probably want to stay around approx 8 mana rocks. Not including Land Tax, I have 7 as-is. I might swap out the Chalice and add both Talisman of Indulgence and Coldsteel Heart. How many lands would you suggest running with 8 mana rocks and a Land Tax?
Nihil Spellbomb - I wrestled with using this card or Tormod's Crypt. Tormod's Crypt won out at the time because I had a foil Timeshifted version, haha. Probably should run both though...
Also, what do you guys think about me running the following cards?
Hide/Seek
I actually don't have either in the deck at the moment. So the debate would be whether or not to take out a colored mana-source land for a Sunhome.
Also, I just realized I'm a moron and definitely need to put a Gilded Lotus in this deck...
I very much like Grand Abolisher. He can give you a couple really productive combat steps that might otherwise get borked, and often that's all you really need.
Harvester of Souls is a decent body that people often don't want to block, and usually draws a surprising amount of cards in the amount of time he's out. I'd replace either Vampiric Dragon or Demon of Death's Gate with him. Which one? I dunno... it's kind of a tossup. They're both relatively weak imho.
I like Nihil Spellbomb better than Tormod's Crypt for the cantrip. Whether you need both depends on your meta and your tutor suite.
Hide // Seek is actually an interesting card that I hadn't considered before. Probably better for 1v1 applications than multiplayer, so if that's your main application, try it out.
Terminus is very good off Vampiric Tutor and/or Sensei's Divining Top, assuming you don't have Kaalia in play.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
(Really this post is mostly going to seem like a placeholder for my sig, which has a link to a very well-written Primer on this very general, and contains my thoughts on a number of cards you are thinking about using in your deck). Normally I would type these suggestions out, but I've already got them typed out over there.
*points to thread* ------------->
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Thanks for taking the time to type of such a detailed article on your deck! Based on your arguments and descriptions, I have the following comments and questions. Please let me know what you think. Everyone else is encouraged to chime in as well! Please keep in mind that I usually play 3-player FFA or 4-player 2HG...
Tithe - I really like your idea of using this instead of Land Tax. I know Land Tax potentially can get more lands, but this guarantees dual lands as well as frees up the option to swap out basic lands for come-into-play-tapped-unless... lands
The following lands should be swapped in when Land Tax is no longer in use:
Dragonskull Summit
Isolated Chapel
Clifftop Retreat
The following lands should be swapped in period!
Volrath's Stronghold - I really need to suck it up and just cough up $20 for this card! It's too good in this deck to not have!
Jeweled Amulet - This is a card I didn't even know existed. Definitely want to get one to add to the mana rocks in the deck. Would it be inappropriate to swap it out for a land and run 37 lands instead of 38?
Moonveil Dragon & Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis - I really like these guys! I will probably replace some of the "on the fence" creatures mentioned in previous posts with these 2.
Defense Grid - Do you find that this doesn't hinder your removal much? It forces you to cast your removal at sorcery speed, which doesn't completely ruin many cards in my build except Condemn. I think I'd like to give it a try... but will have to pick one up first.
Hallowed Burial - Do you think I should run this AND Terminus? I noticed you ran both over Day of Judgment.
Vampiric Tutor - Another SUPER awesome card that I need to cough up $20 for. If I had to choose between this and Volrath's Stronghold, which one would you recommend picking up first?
Dance of the Dead / Necromancy - My graveyard recursion package includes Unburial Rites, Phyrexian Reclamation, Karmic Guide, Bladewing the Risen, & Reya Dawnbringer. Would you recommend swapping any of these for Dance of the Dead or Necromancy? Or swapping out other cards in the deck to expand the reanimation package?
Questions:
Rakdos the Defiler - How well does he work in multiplayer games. Obviously the first hit is devastating to someone, but is it worth sacrificing your own permanents to hit someone else? I'm concerned he could become a single-swing only attacker for me in multiplayer.
Hall of the Bandit Lord - How does the life loss fare in multiplayer games? Obviously haste on Kaalia is amazing, but 3 life per tap can get painful!
Ajani Vengeant - I know you SB him out in a multiplayer game, but he does have some powerful control abilities. Do you really think he has no place in a multiplayer match?
I'm not sure I would cut a land for it directly as it doesn't work like a real mana rock conventionally would, but I only run 36 lands in my deck. Granted, I may be able to cheat on that number with the optimal fixing I am blessed with. I definitely wouldn't recommend cheating on lands if you are playing budget options. At first glance, Rupture Spire and the Vivid lands can go, they suck for a deck that wants to be fast like this(note: this will be a recurring theme with me, I aim to win as fast as possible as I play mostly 1v1. It's my inner-R Mage, ha).
You also look like you still need a Badlands, but I'm sure you're already well-aware of that.
And yes, based on having only six basics, Land Tax isn't all that fantastic here so Tithe is my "go-to" ramp spell(yes, I know it doesn't actually ramp). Also, you can crack a fetchland, then in response cast Tithe to ensure you get the second land off of it, even if you played first.
Yeah, these two rock pretty fierce. Also amazing has been Thundermaw Hellkite. That guy is the real deal.
I find that every once in awhile it can be annoying, but what is more annoying, getting Kaalia Hinder'd? Or waiting until your turn to kill something? Ultimately, I have found that I can generally wait to remove things on my own turn, most of the time. And if something is really threatening...then I guess I need to pay the extra 3 or else I just lose.
Yeah, I run three sweepers and a plethora of spot removal, but all my removal is versatile/tuck/or exile. If I wanted DoJ...I think I would go back to playing Rout(which I cut a few months back for Terminus as I value tuck higher than destroy). I can also set up Terminus via my Vampiric Tutor.
I'm probably gonna say the Stronghold, as it's something I use fairly frequently, as both a recursion tool and a lock piece. It's also going to be harder to find a Stronghold due to only one printing, than it will be to find a Vampiric.
Bladewing and Reclamation seem the most suspect to be replaced(I eat a fair portion of my life total already so seeing a Reclamation already makes my life dwindle even faster). And Bladewing just isn't as good as Karmic Guide as he's more limited in what he brings back, and he costs more mana to boot!
Rakdos works great to close out a dwindling game, or keep the one guy who's been ramping uncontrollably in check. I just let him loose on the guy who poses the greatest threat to me, and if I need him again, I just sac and recur with my Stronghold.
As for Hall it is the best land in my deck. Not just for Kaalia, but also for Steel Hellkite, Balefire Dragon, and of course Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis. I use it fairly frequently(again, just like a R Mage, always moving frantically) to keep my game plan going without hiccups.
I don't like Planeswalkers in multiplayer because it is really hard to get a chance to untap with them the more people are at the table. Especially one with an ultimate like Ajani V. as that just scares people to paranoia and provokes them even more. So ask yourself this; Is Keeping a permanent tapped for a whole turn worth spending 2WR on? And for his -2, we already know Lightning Helix should only cost WR, not 2WR.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
It's certainly an alright list that I'm sure does alright in your playgroup, however I noted there is a few questionable cards in there.
Lands- I guess you're working on this, though I wonder just how good the Kamigawa legendary cycle really is for you? Also, no sac outlets? Phyrexian Tower? High Market?
Akroma's Vengenace, Divine Reckoning, Austere Command, but only one 'Geddon? Living Death looks a little off, given Kaalia on average runs a lower critter count since every one of them is so backbreaking. Cataclysm seems superior to every card I listed here.
Insurrection? Really? I guess you play multiplayer, but Kaalia should have the game wrapped up before this is needed.
Sorin LoI feels weak here(your critters have 5-7 power, who cares if you get an extra +1)?
Darksteel Ingot is bad here because it doesn't ramp you into our magnificient lady any quicker, and Shield/Plate are generally a bit too slow for us to make optimal use of. Ultimately your Swords are "win-more" too, as all this deck needs is an active Kaalia to win. A sword doesn't help that goal at all.
Some two drop rocks like the MIR diamonds would be perfect here to accelerate into t3 general.
Aggravated Assault, Debtor's Knell, and True Conviction feel like they are entirely unneeded. Gisela doubles our damage and is free with our general, Knell is a seven mana enchantment that you should never be allowed to untap with if your playgroup is smart, and Aggravated is only good with the SoFaF. Gratuitous Violence is pretty win-more as well(and this is coming from someone who played all of these cards before at one point or another).
Fervor I guess is alright. Not stellar but it is what it is. Land Tax is fine here as you actually have basics to fetch out, unlike mine where I only have like six.
Your critters are where I would want to focus the most help, tbh.
Skithiryx is a different animal himself, but ultimately fails as he doesn't contribute to the game plan because infect doesn't mesh with normal damage).
Not meaning to tear your deck down buddy, but just figured I'd offer my own advice to help you too.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I was able to pick up a NM Volrath's Stronghold on eBay for $15 shipped to my door. All it took was 10 seconds of searching, 5 seconds of sorting, and 1 minute of hitting "Buy it Now" and going through the PayPal payment process :p.
I might recommend getting it before Vampiric Tutor, as well, simply because it's recursion ability in a land slot just can't be replaced. You can get by without really good tutors by having pretty good draw, which can be had for cheap.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
As for the wraths I include. Only one 'geddon is needed. I REALLY hate LDing and so does my playgroup. I don't like to do to others what I get pissed about when it happens to me. I only run it when I want to just win instantly. I just show it and say, I win, without having to even play it and make the game last longer. Insurrection is a life saver in this deck. Late game when you're near death because everyone's been slowly killing you, taking all their creatures and kill them right then and there normally does it. Sorin you may not like, but he is really is just a Win More card. Even if I just get his emblem off it really is worth it. Plus he also ends up soaking up damage that my general would normally have instead.
Darksteel Plate is a must in the deck, it works on not just her, but a lot of the other bombs you want to survive after she has kicked the bucket. Shield is mediocore and can go, I just haven't found something else good. Enchantments included in the deck help as 1) redirecting targets for my equipment and 2) Win More. I've come back from so many 1 life games with True Conviction then I can count. I do think putting in the mirage charms would be good and taking out the DSI. But if you ever have a chance, try out my version in a heavy multiplayer game, you'll see how the utilities work well with multiplayer.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
Good deal on the land, man. I got mine from my LGS for like $9 about a year and a half ago and was so happy with it, and it, well, of course we both know it is such an amazing card.
Also agree on the assessment about prioritizing the land over the tutour for the same reasons you mentioned. With enough good draw(Moonlight Bargain style) it is fine to usually find what you need.
Ahh, I guess I can't really fault you for being averse to LD. I am of the mindset if I don't do it, someone else will, so I will beat them to it. Though from where I come from, I feel if it isn't on the banlist, it's fair game, and expect others to come at me the same way. If they have some kind of a vice towards that, then that is their problem, not mine. Obv I don't just 'Geddon just for the sake of casting it, if I 'Geddon, I am going to win.
That's another thing that I noticed you seemed rather light on in your deck, was card draw. No Phyrexian Arena, or Skeletal Scrying, even? I don't know how you're able to maintain the gas without some good draw to reload with.edit: I just went back and checked and saw it there. Still think you could use a little more, but hey, don't we all need moar card draw? >_<You also mentioned "win-more" as reasons why you play some cards. I understand it's not my place to control how some play their decks and all, but why win-more...when you can just win? It accomplishes the same goal, really. Doesn't matter if you brought them to -629, or exactly 0.
Probably comes from my competitive nature, so forgive me.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Sorry, late to the party here. I'm sure 3drinks and sH0opdAwoOp covered some ground here.
Everflowing Chalice is "slow." You need pay 4 to get a 2 colorless from it. Both Coldsteel Heart and Talisman of Indulgence become available before that and give you colored mana. Colored mana is very important in getting Kaalia out as soon as possible to start the attack or to power up any activated abilities (i.e. Moonveil Dragon).
Fellwar Stone is ok, since your playgroup has red and black mana. Just be sure to swap it out if you go to an unknown table. It's tough when you forget to do this, which is why I recommend replacing it with one of the other mana artifacts. If you play with the same table often enough, then you can hold off changing this.
Slayers' Stronghold is an option I'm consider for Kaalia's large targets. I just put this card out there as an alternative to what you had for a land. Otherwise, put Hall of the Bandit Lord in first.
Night Dealings should be replaced with tutors or draw cards when you are able to get them. Tutors and draw cards are unconditional while Night Dealings requires combat damage first. For your table, it sounds like you can keep running this, so you don't have any rush to replace it.
In the end, as long as you are having fun, that's what matters.
My current reanimation package is Necromancy, Animate Dead, Beacon of Unrest, Unburial Rites, and Karmic Guide. I also have some creatures that do it as well. You can look at my deck for more ideas.
Only reason I haven't put in a Phyrexian Arena was because I haven't had any in stock in my collection for a while. Ill probably put it in sometime. Skeletal Scrying seems like a nice card also for all those spent spells. I'm also thinking of adding Karmic Guide and Harvester of Souls which I saw on your list. Which means I'll probably need to put in a High Market and Phyrexian Tower.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
mad_hatter_md01,
True Conviction is the only one of the three I would consider keeping, especially in a multiplayer game. 3drinks actually used it for a bit before Gisela was created. It costs 6, and there is no way to shortcut it unless you have Academy Rector. But, when you play True Conviction, you are going to have a huge life swing gain. It pretty much forces opponents to deal with it over your creatures.
If you get better cards, True Conviction can go out, but if you find yourself eating up a lot of life, it might be worth a slot in the deck.
Aggravated Assault is in there really only for the one win combo. I'll most likely replace it with Phyrexian Arena when I get it. But I'm shaky on taking out Debtor's Knell. It's such a great card in my PG because it makes people focus on removing other peoples graveyards and not my own. If I can find a card that is better than it then I could consider taking it out. Same goes for True Conviction. I haven't found anything better than it to bring me back from the brink of death.
Edit: 3drinks, you must not have looked thoroughly enough. I've actually already got a Phyrexian Arena in the deck.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
Terminus - I definitely think I'd like to run this is my deck. Would you guys recommend replacing the DoJ or the Austere Command. I think I'd rather keep the Command, but thought I'd see what you all have to say?
Jeweled Amulet - So you think I should cut a nonland card for this? Or should I drop from 38 to 37 lands?
Volrath's Stronghold - I'll start looking around on Ebay to try to pick one of these up
Rupture Spire and the Vivid lands - I will swap these (and basics) out for the following:
Rakdos the Defiler - I think he's worth giving a shot, even if I only play multiplayer. The permanent sacrificing just seems too good to not use!
Necromancy / Animate Dead - Which of these would you guys swap out Bladewing for?