Hi guys! My name is Jonathan and I live in Canada. I started playing mtg in 2011 and the only format I've ever played is Commander. This amazing format is the reason I got into magic and I don't think I'll move on to anything else in the foreseeable future. I play in several different playgroups, some more competitive than others. I consider myself to be half spike and half everything else. I like combos, I like hardcasting fatties, I also pay lots of attention to card arts and flavours. However as much as I like to win, I don't play very well because I haven't been playing for as long as others. I love deckbuilding, in fact I think I enjoy building decks more than playing them. This leads us the next section.
The Tri-colour Madness Deck Series:
As I've mentioned above, I really enjoy building decks and I see it as one of my creative outlets. I take pride in the decks I build and I enjoy seeing them being successful when played by me or others. So far I've built 10 decks, each of them features a unique tri-colour combo (yup, that's all of them!). On top of the the passion for deckbuilding, another reason for me to build so many decks is that I am relatively new to the game of mtg, and I want to try out all kinds of different decks.
You'll see a large variety of deck archetypes from this series including: timmy, theft/control, aikido(passive reactive control), ramp, rock/recursion, artifacts, mill/reanimation, tokens and voltron/aggro. For some decks, I decide on the archetype and general, then I search up all kinds of decklists online and from those I create my ideal list for that strategy(my spike side). For other decks, I just come up with an idea and dive into it blindly which results in decks that are 100% my own through extensive testing and modifying. All of my decks are built to be multiplayer oriented.
One problem that I came across when building these decks is that there are many card overlaps even though all of the decks utilize different strategies. I was unable to avoid including cards like primeval titan and consecrated sphinx in every deck of the appropriate colours. I've been trying my best to avoid this and limit the number of staples that go in all my decks. In the near future I will spend some time to focus specifically on cutting those staples from my decks.
The reason for me to post this series is that I want to share my passion with all of you, and at the same time receive some feedbacks and suggestions in order to help me further improve my decks. I'm sure this will be a great experience and help me and others in many different ways. Thanks in advance!
Karador, Ghost Chieftain is in my opinion general with the most potential from the commander decks. It is quite similar to Teneb, the Harvester, but I think Karador is more consistent and better for building around. Being able to cast creatures from your graveyard, even though it's once per turn and only during your turn (no winding canyons for him), can be incredibly powerful. In a long game of multiplayer EDH persistence is key, and Karador gives you just that. Also as far as I know Karador is the only general who has a cost-reduction ability which can potentially override the extra casting cost from commander rules. I don't remember ever paying more than 5cmc for him, and thats pretty amazing for his abilities. Sick general is sick.
Play Karador if:
-You like consistency: Karador doesn't really add any variety to your game. Instead, what he does is allowing you to reuse your creatures over and over. This may be a little repetitive some times.
-You like slower/grindier games: While he is capable of performing infinite combos and locks, this Karador build usually wins through attrition. Continue to play threats and answers, continue to play and recurse them until your opponents run out gas is the most common path to victory.
-You like combos and card synergies: Karador's colour allows for a large set of infinite/psuedo infinite combos. I don't run any in this deck, however the options are definitely there. Karador belongs in very synergistic decks that grind out incremental value through card interactions. The creatures in the deck are expected to generate value when they enter the field, while they're on the field, and when they leave the field. And they will be recycled until they get exiled or tucked.
Basic Land Art
I've been a huge fan of the basic land arts on magic cards ever since I started playing the game. In the beginning I loved the zendikar ones and filled my decks with them. Then they became a bit repetitive and boring. As a result my inner Vorthos pushed me to move on and search for some other land arts that fit well in my decks. I follow a few basic guidelines when searching for my lands. Obviously they must look good. They should also be on theme with the deck, and as a result of that, the lands in a deck are mostly from the same sets/blocks. Lastly, i try to keep my lands new-boardered, just because I like them better.
For Karador, we have:
Not too sure why, but I just feel that if Karador would be printed in an actual set, he fits best in shadowmoor. The lands above are really nice and fit the overall creepy but not bloody (reanimating as spirits, instead of zombies) theme of Karador. I would really love to hear which lands you think are the best for this deck!
What does the Deck Do?
This deck is like any typical rock deck, with a set of strong creatures and an effective recursion package. My mind set when building this deck is to unleash my inner spike and assemble the strongest list for this general that I can afford. Unlike my other spikish deck,Riku. Karador isn't explosive at all. The deck's power level is average throughout the entire game, however it simply does not run out of gas, ever. With high resilience the deck grinds its opponents down as it continues to recurse its resources.
Board Wipes: One of the main strategies here is to grind down opponents through board wipes. The deck includes seven of them, three of which can be recursed repeatedly. Karador recovers faster than anything after wipes, and oftentimes is unaffected thanks to cards like Dauntless Escort and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed being recursed. Through wiping the board repeatedly, Karador can swarm its opponents with card advantage.
Like every graveyard deck, this deck's soft spot is graveyard hate. I really don't want to waste too much resource in order to counter those overpowered graveyard hate that wizards has printed (Bojuka Bog, Really?). I have discovered that as long as I don't put all eggs in one basket, I am fine against those one-use cards. However, the biggest problem this deck has is against reusable ones like Stonecloaker and The Mimeoplasm.
Here I explain some of the less obvious card choices:
Necrotic Sliver, Harmonic Sliver: The two slivers are some of my favourite creatures in my team of "removals on stick". Strong on their own, broken when working together.
Fiend Hunter: Requires a sac outlet on the field in order to reach his maximum potential. However, his flexibility makes up for the slight inconstency.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope: In theory seems to be very good in the deck. With sacoutlets and recursion, I can continue to bring her back until my opponents run out of ways to deal with her. (the ways are pretty limited to begin with). Also with board wipe being a theme in my deck, Avacyn just makes a lot of sensen. However she requires me to have a board and does not generate any value on her own. So I'll decided to keep her or not after some testing.
Phyrexian Revoker: There is so much utility attatched onto this seemingly insignificant body. He shuts down a handful of generals and creatures. (Eight and a half tails, Oona, Rhys, Tariel, Zedruu, just to name a few from my playgroup). More importantly, he can also stop relic progenitus, tormod's crypt and most other artifact graveyard hate.
Spike Weaver: I am on the edge about this card. The fog ability is extremely useful, however I'm not sure how needed it is in my deck. Recursable with Reveillark is a huge plus. Will test.
True Believer: Purely defensive card. While my deck has a strong control over the board, I don't have many ways to defend myself against alternate strategies (mill, burn etc.) True Believer stops all that. He is also my only way to stop Bojuka Bog .
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter : Sac outlet, Life gain, creature removal, this guy is the swiss army knife in the deck.
Oblivion Stone, Pernicious Deed, Magus of the Disk: yes, there are definitely more effeicient boardwipes in white. However these three can be easily recursed. And make the 7 boardwipes in my deck feel like a lot more.
Beast Within, Krosan Grip, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares: I am very strict when choosing non-creature spells for this deck, especially when the spells' utility can be found on creatures. These four are some of the best removal spells in the game and their instant speed allow me to have some say during my opponents' turns.(how else would I deal with a Stonecloaker?)
Watch List
Cards that I will include with little persuasion. Please share your opinions on those!
Eladamir's Call: The deck already has very many tutors. I am not too sure what is the threshold for the number of tutors should an effective deck have. So for now I have more black tutors in because they can search for anything.
Mirror Entity: It seems to me that the pump and the sac abilities aren't too useful. The card is meant for infinite combos, so I try to avoid it.
Life from the Loam/ Crucible of Worlds package. I've never played with one and I'm not too sure how effective the package is, once I find a set of fetch lands I'll put those in along with some cycle lands.
How can you help me?
Again, the biggest problem this deck has is graveyard hate. Even though I am able to avoid losing too much to it, I still have no choice but to treat losing my graveyard once in a while as an unavoidable part of the game. How do you guys normally deal with graveyard hate?
Nice deck. I'e got a spare Karador I've been wanting to build around (see a theme?) and this list is awesome. Might steal from it. Can't wait to get payed.
Chaoswarp: Pretty much everything Pookelyduke said is in line with what I think about those cards. I only don't run Qasali Pridemage because I don't have too much room. Ok that's a horrible excuse I'll go find room. For Fiend Hunter and Tidehollow Sculler I feel like I don't have enough sac outlets for me to maximize their value.
Pookelyduke: Thanks for the comments! I think I will test out stoneforge mystic since I already run skullclamp in my deck. You sold me on Birthing Pod. Here is my creature curve, I think it looks pretty pod-friendly.
Spore Fog I will go search for one. Now I'm not too sure how important it is to have a low starting point for Birthing Pod. I think it is okay as long as the chain doesn't break down in the middle. I can be completely wrong though. I don't like Matyred Ruskalka too much, because the effect is a little bit limited, and the sac effect costs 1 coloured mana. Testing it won't hurt though.
Now I'm not too sure if I agree with the inclusion of Mortarpod in your deck. It's not a really good sac outlet because you can only equip at sorcery speed and it costs 2 mana. IS there some other utility for it that I'm missing? I think it is important to have free instant speed sac outlets in this deck in order to respond to exiling and tuck effects. I'm heading to your thread asap, just let me put on my battle gear first.
dimir house guard tutors for very different but very important stuff like wrath, oracle, greater good, spike weaver and birthing pod (which i'd recommend 100% because it often wins you the game), it makes karador cheaper and can serve as a sac outlet for the reveillark karmic guide combo.
also y u no run sword to plowshares and path to exile? i know they are not recurrable but just to good not to play in any white edh deck.
Volango: Thanks for the comment. Dimir house guard is just one of those great cards that I completely missed. Will make space for it right now. For Swords and Path, I do run them in every single white deck I built except for this one. For this Karador Deck I decided to experiment with an all creature approach and use cards like big game hunter and bone shredder. I realize they are a lot worse in terms of abilities, being sorcery speed most of the time, only destroy, and with the limitations. I'm not sure if synergizing with the heavy recursion in this deck can justify including those over swords and path, but I will do some testing on those.
I play Karador, and I feel that you should know that Qasali Pridemage and Debtors' knell are cards you need to add. The mage is great for those pesky decks that rely on more enchantments and artifacts to win rather than cretures, not to mention he is insanely easy to recur. As for the knell, well there is always something in someones graveyard I want to still:tongue: I've used it to steal a seedborn muse and combo out to mill someone 60 cards in 2 turns with it and Geth. Just a couple ideas from my experience from playing with highly competitive players.
However for Debtor's Knell, consider this. The enchantment is extremely slow, and requires one full turn around the table to activate once (the effect of reanimate). So in my opinion it requires 2 activations for it to be worth its cost and 3 activations to get some good value. The problem here is that the enchantment draws way too much hate to survive 2-3 rounds. So I don't think the enchantment is good, but not too great.
I can agree that it draws hate and the speed is controversial for sure depending on who/what you are playing against, but if you have Academy Rector getting it out early isn't much of a problem. I guess I've never had a problem with it on account of playing a ramp style deck where I'm dropping a threat turn 4-5.
Agreed, it is one of the most unpolitical cards in the deck, but my meta is largely competitive so politics with us is like politics with rampaging gorillas.
Haha yup. Qasali Pridemage will be in as soon as I find another copy. Might test out debtor's knell soon. I traded for it after all. ALso posted a change log, will update regularly.
You might wanna try out Coffin Queen. She's inexpensive to buy, only a couple bucks at the most. She's repeatable recursion out of any yard also. And if someone tries to kill her to exile one of your dudes you rezzed, just sac the dude. Or do this when a juicier rez target comes along.
You have the clamp, so why no Bloodghast? If you throw in the ghast think about Perilous Forays as well. In my list, it can get more lands than prime time if I have bloodghast.
No Birthing Pod? Why? That card is absolutely amazing.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
Pookelyduke:yupp exactly that. Problem with this is that it gets destroyed once, and I cant get it back. On the other hand I can recurse a card like Sheoldred, Whispering One until my opponents get tired of removing it.
Blackkithkin20: Thats a really good point, with a sac outlet coffin queen is a broken risk-free recursion engine. That 3 cmc and 1 power also make her even more perfect. I will try to find one asap. The synergy Bloodghast has with the cards you mentioned is actually quite amazing. However the reason I'm hesitant to run it is that without specific cards like skullclamp or perilous forays and possibly birthing pod it feels kind of useless on its own. Feels a bit like an all or nothing card. Birthing Pod I just added, but forgot to update the list.
There are ways of getting knell back from the yard, albeit hard and tenuous, normally involving some form of recursion with eternal witness. Although if someone is dumb enough to let a witness go unanswered or even worse become recurred regularly, I guess they deserve to have bad things happen to them.
Cmc 5 isn't a lot when you have a bit of ramp in your deck. Plus the fact that if you have ghast and you ramp a helluva lot more, even able to get duals and Murmuring Bosk off it and you'll see that it is quite amazing.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
Lol yeah, perilous forays is definitely a strong engine if you set it up. Another combo i wanna try in the deck is Lurking Predators + Volrath's Stronghold. Both cards are nice on their own, pretty sick together.
DenioK: I've been wanting to try Animate Dead in my deck because it works so well with Sun titan. the felidar win-con is nice. However I don't want it to be the only reason for me to play lifegain. Maybe I should put in Griselbrand and Felidar Sovereign, along with some lifegain cards.
Serra Ascendant: I've tested this card in a few decks. It is quite Amazing in the first few turns. However in late game, it is not very useful at all, even if its still a 6/6. HOwever, the problem is, the multiplayer aspect of EDH almost always brings down whoever takes a lead in early game. I normally gain around 12-24 life from Serra Ascendant, and usually it only take a turn or two for my opponents to take me back down to where they are. So in my opinion despite how explosive it is in early game, Serra Ascendant is a little inconsistent and politically poor card.
Diamond Valley: is way too expensive right now for me, and Miren, the Moaning Well I'll test, but the mana cost is a little high since I don't run really big creatures in this deck.
Conjurer's Closet: THis is one sick card indeed, searching for one. I really like how it's at the beginning of your end step, so you normally get at least 1 use from it.
Not a huge fan of Eldrazi. I ran Ulamog for a little bit but mostly for saving my graveyard with Survival of THe fittest and Entomb in response to graveyard removal. It hasn't been that effective.
False Prophet: I don't like this card too much because the exiling has negative synergies with my deck, however, with a reliable sac outlet, false prophet can be ridiculously good.
Terminus: Also negative synergy. And can't be recursed with the deck.
Overall great stuff. Thank you for your suggestions and there is a ton of stuff there I'm going to test.
ALTAR!!!! Ya that's one sick card. I'm considering adding that into my deck as a sac-outlet plus self mill. However I am not a huge fan of infinite combos due to the environment I play in. However that card, along with a few other combo pieces will go straight in if I want to tune things up a bit.
ya those two are some of the best sac outlets out there and they do find some in some of my other decks. However in this one, the two cards aren't as relevant because I don't always have a lot of creatures to sac. And if possible, I try to use creatures for utility in this particular deck.
I see you took out Ghave. I still think this deck needs more sac outlets. Wanna try Viscera Seer? 1 drop, can be recursed with every recursion engine in your deck. And scrying is always useful. Also, did you consider adding griselbrand? Although if you do play griselbrand I'd definitely put in Kitchen Finks to get a little bit of lifegain.
Also, I do realize that you're trying to keep things creature oriented, Swords to plowshares and path to exile are just too good to pass up.
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Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Introduction:
The Tri-colour Madness Deck Series:
You'll see a large variety of deck archetypes from this series including: timmy, theft/control, aikido(passive reactive control), ramp, rock/recursion, artifacts, mill/reanimation, tokens and voltron/aggro. For some decks, I decide on the archetype and general, then I search up all kinds of decklists online and from those I create my ideal list for that strategy(my spike side). For other decks, I just come up with an idea and dive into it blindly which results in decks that are 100% my own through extensive testing and modifying. All of my decks are built to be multiplayer oriented.
One problem that I came across when building these decks is that there are many card overlaps even though all of the decks utilize different strategies. I was unable to avoid including cards like primeval titan and consecrated sphinx in every deck of the appropriate colours. I've been trying my best to avoid this and limit the number of staples that go in all my decks. In the near future I will spend some time to focus specifically on cutting those staples from my decks.
The reason for me to post this series is that I want to share my passion with all of you, and at the same time receive some feedbacks and suggestions in order to help me further improve my decks. I'm sure this will be a great experience and help me and others in many different ways. Thanks in advance!
Here are deck lists that I've posted so far:
:symr::symu::symg: Riku's RUG Goodstuff Deck
:symb::symr::symg: Kresh's Ultimate Timmy Deck
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum's Etherium Empire
:symu::symb::symr: Thraximundar!!! Theft Deck
:symg::symb::symu: The Mimeoplasm Mill/Reanimator
:symr::symw::symu: Zedruu's Defense/Sunforger Deck
:symb::symg::symw: Karador Rock/Recursion Deck
:symg::symw::symu: Rafiq of the 1HKO
:symr::symg::symw: Rith and Her Token Army
The General:
Karador, Ghost Chieftain is in my opinion general with the most potential from the commander decks. It is quite similar to Teneb, the Harvester, but I think Karador is more consistent and better for building around. Being able to cast creatures from your graveyard, even though it's once per turn and only during your turn (no winding canyons for him), can be incredibly powerful. In a long game of multiplayer EDH persistence is key, and Karador gives you just that. Also as far as I know Karador is the only general who has a cost-reduction ability which can potentially override the extra casting cost from commander rules. I don't remember ever paying more than 5cmc for him, and thats pretty amazing for his abilities. Sick general is sick.
Play Karador if:
-You like consistency: Karador doesn't really add any variety to your game. Instead, what he does is allowing you to reuse your creatures over and over. This may be a little repetitive some times.
-You like slower/grindier games: While he is capable of performing infinite combos and locks, this Karador build usually wins through attrition. Continue to play threats and answers, continue to play and recurse them until your opponents run out gas is the most common path to victory.
-You like combos and card synergies: Karador's colour allows for a large set of infinite/psuedo infinite combos. I don't run any in this deck, however the options are definitely there. Karador belongs in very synergistic decks that grind out incremental value through card interactions. The creatures in the deck are expected to generate value when they enter the field, while they're on the field, and when they leave the field. And they will be recycled until they get exiled or tucked.
Basic Land Art
I've been a huge fan of the basic land arts on magic cards ever since I started playing the game. In the beginning I loved the zendikar ones and filled my decks with them. Then they became a bit repetitive and boring. As a result my inner Vorthos pushed me to move on and search for some other land arts that fit well in my decks. I follow a few basic guidelines when searching for my lands. Obviously they must look good. They should also be on theme with the deck, and as a result of that, the lands in a deck are mostly from the same sets/blocks. Lastly, i try to keep my lands new-boardered, just because I like them better.
For Karador, we have:
Not too sure why, but I just feel that if Karador would be printed in an actual set, he fits best in shadowmoor. The lands above are really nice and fit the overall creepy but not bloody (reanimating as spirits, instead of zombies) theme of Karador. I would really love to hear which lands you think are the best for this deck!
What does the Deck Do?
Board Wipes: One of the main strategies here is to grind down opponents through board wipes. The deck includes seven of them, three of which can be recursed repeatedly. Karador recovers faster than anything after wipes, and oftentimes is unaffected thanks to cards like Dauntless Escort and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed being recursed. Through wiping the board repeatedly, Karador can swarm its opponents with card advantage.
Combos: Strong infinite combos can be assembled with cards like Reveillark, Karmic Guide and Saffi Eriksdotter. I have yet to find the need to use any of those in games, but the option is definitely there. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed also enables a bunch of nice combos with cards like Woodfall Primus,Ghave, Guru of Spores, and Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter.
Yosei, the Morning Star: Yupp, gotta yosei lock down someone if I have to.
Like every graveyard deck, this deck's soft spot is graveyard hate. I really don't want to waste too much resource in order to counter those overpowered graveyard hate that wizards has printed (Bojuka Bog, Really?). I have discovered that as long as I don't put all eggs in one basket, I am fine against those one-use cards. However, the biggest problem this deck has is against reusable ones like Stonecloaker and The Mimeoplasm.
Decklist:
1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain
The Army
1x Angel of Despair
1x Archon of Justice
1x Necrotic Sliver
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Bone Shredder
1x Duplicant
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Acidic Slime
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Terastodon
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Academy Rector
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Spike Weaver
1x Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter (sac outlet)
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Disciple of Griselbrand (sac outlet)
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
Recursion Package
1x Eternal Witness
1x Genesis
1x Karmic Guide
1x Reveillark
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Sun Titan
Card Draw/Filtering
1x Greater Good (sac outlet)
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sylvan Library
1x Farhaven Elf
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Primeval Titan
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Sol Ring
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sylvan Primordial
1x Wood Elves
1x Yavimaya Elder
Tutors
1x Buried Alive
1x Chord of Calling
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dimir House Guard (sac outlet)
1x Entomb
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Tooth and Nail
Board Wipes
1x Austere Command
1x Decree of Pain (card draw)
1x Death Cloud
1x False Prophet
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Wrath of God
Misc. Utility
1x Birthing Pod
1x Beast Within
1x Krosan Grip
1x Life From The Loam
1x Hunting Grounds
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Brushland
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Fetid Heath
1x Twilight Mire
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Marsh Flats
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Barren Moor
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Command Tower
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Murmuring Bosk
5x Forest
3x Plains
4x Swamp
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Volrath's Stronghold (recursion)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Winding Canyons
1x Grim Backwoods (sac outlet)
1x High Market (sac outlet)
1x Phyrexian Tower (sac outlet)
1x Vault of the Archangel
Deck Stat:
Creatures: 34
Sorceries: 6
Instants: 8
Enchantments: 7
Artifacts: 5
Lands: 38
Card Choices
Necrotic Sliver, Harmonic Sliver: The two slivers are some of my favourite creatures in my team of "removals on stick". Strong on their own, broken when working together.
Fiend Hunter: Requires a sac outlet on the field in order to reach his maximum potential. However, his flexibility makes up for the slight inconstency.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope: In theory seems to be very good in the deck. With sacoutlets and recursion, I can continue to bring her back until my opponents run out of ways to deal with her. (the ways are pretty limited to begin with). Also with board wipe being a theme in my deck, Avacyn just makes a lot of sensen. However she requires me to have a board and does not generate any value on her own. So I'll decided to keep her or not after some testing.
Phyrexian Revoker: There is so much utility attatched onto this seemingly insignificant body. He shuts down a handful of generals and creatures. (Eight and a half tails, Oona, Rhys, Tariel, Zedruu, just to name a few from my playgroup). More importantly, he can also stop relic progenitus, tormod's crypt and most other artifact graveyard hate.
Spike Weaver: I am on the edge about this card. The fog ability is extremely useful, however I'm not sure how needed it is in my deck. Recursable with Reveillark is a huge plus. Will test.
True Believer: Purely defensive card. While my deck has a strong control over the board, I don't have many ways to defend myself against alternate strategies (mill, burn etc.) True Believer stops all that. He is also my only way to stop Bojuka Bog .
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter : Sac outlet, Life gain, creature removal, this guy is the swiss army knife in the deck.
Dimir House Guard: Still needs some testing, but this guy can tutor for a few of the key cards in my deck. Greater good, Damnation, Birthing Pod and Oracle of Mul Daya, jus to name a few. He's also a sac outlet if I need one.
Oblivion Stone, Pernicious Deed, Magus of the Disk: yes, there are definitely more effeicient boardwipes in white. However these three can be easily recursed. And make the 7 boardwipes in my deck feel like a lot more.
Beast Within, Krosan Grip, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares: I am very strict when choosing non-creature spells for this deck, especially when the spells' utility can be found on creatures. These four are some of the best removal spells in the game and their instant speed allow me to have some say during my opponents' turns.(how else would I deal with a Stonecloaker?)
Debtors' Knell: A little slow, draws too much hate.
Eladamir's Call: The deck already has very many tutors. I am not too sure what is the threshold for the number of tutors should an effective deck have. So for now I have more black tutors in because they can search for anything.
Coffin Queen, Qasali Pridemage: Searching For the cards.
Worldly Tutor: Same as above.
Mirror Entity: It seems to me that the pump and the sac abilities aren't too useful. The card is meant for infinite combos, so I try to avoid it.
Life from the Loam/ Crucible of Worlds package. I've never played with one and I'm not too sure how effective the package is, once I find a set of fetch lands I'll put those in along with some cycle lands.
How can you help me?
Changelog
+ Birthing Pod -Debtor's Knell (Pookelyduke)
+Dimir House Guard -Fleshbag Marauder (Volango)
5.19.2012 (DeinoK)
+ Avacyn, Angel of Hope -Idyllic Tutor
+ True Believer -Mimic Vat
5.29.2012
+Viscera Seer - Avacyn, Angel of Hope
+Volrath's Stronghold -Swamp
7.3.2012
+ Life from the Loam -Saffi Eriksdotter
+ Marsh Flats -Swamp
+ Verdant Catacombs -Forest
+ Windswept Heath -Plains
+ Secluded Steppe - Temple of the False God
+ Barren Moor -Swamp
+ Tranquil Thicket -Plains
Thanks for reading my deck tech, please also check my other lists in the series if you're interested!
Diabolic Intent, Qasali Pridemage, Fiend Hunter, Tidehollow Sculler and maybe spore fog?
Pookelyduke: Thanks for the comments! I think I will test out stoneforge mystic since I already run skullclamp in my deck. You sold me on Birthing Pod. Here is my creature curve, I think it looks pretty pod-friendly.
2cmc: 3
3cmc: 8
4cmc: 5
5cmc: 6
6cmc: 5
7cmc: 4
8cmc: 2
Yupp its in. Thanks again.
Now I'm not too sure if I agree with the inclusion of Mortarpod in your deck. It's not a really good sac outlet because you can only equip at sorcery speed and it costs 2 mana. IS there some other utility for it that I'm missing? I think it is important to have free instant speed sac outlets in this deck in order to respond to exiling and tuck effects. I'm heading to your thread asap, just let me put on my battle gear first.
also y u no run sword to plowshares and path to exile? i know they are not recurrable but just to good not to play in any white edh deck.
otherwise really awesome list!
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Volango: Thanks for the comment. Dimir house guard is just one of those great cards that I completely missed. Will make space for it right now. For Swords and Path, I do run them in every single white deck I built except for this one. For this Karador Deck I decided to experiment with an all creature approach and use cards like big game hunter and bone shredder. I realize they are a lot worse in terms of abilities, being sorcery speed most of the time, only destroy, and with the limitations. I'm not sure if synergizing with the heavy recursion in this deck can justify including those over swords and path, but I will do some testing on those.
Thanks again.
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
Qasali Pridemage I'm strongly considering.
However for Debtor's Knell, consider this. The enchantment is extremely slow, and requires one full turn around the table to activate once (the effect of reanimate). So in my opinion it requires 2 activations for it to be worth its cost and 3 activations to get some good value. The problem here is that the enchantment draws way too much hate to survive 2-3 rounds. So I don't think the enchantment is good, but not too great.
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
You have the clamp, so why no Bloodghast? If you throw in the ghast think about Perilous Forays as well. In my list, it can get more lands than prime time if I have bloodghast.
No Birthing Pod? Why? That card is absolutely amazing.
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
Blackkithkin20: Thats a really good point, with a sac outlet coffin queen is a broken risk-free recursion engine. That 3 cmc and 1 power also make her even more perfect. I will try to find one asap. The synergy Bloodghast has with the cards you mentioned is actually quite amazing. However the reason I'm hesitant to run it is that without specific cards like skullclamp or perilous forays and possibly birthing pod it feels kind of useless on its own. Feels a bit like an all or nothing card. Birthing Pod I just added, but forgot to update the list.
Thanks for the comments!
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
Serra Ascendant: I've tested this card in a few decks. It is quite Amazing in the first few turns. However in late game, it is not very useful at all, even if its still a 6/6. HOwever, the problem is, the multiplayer aspect of EDH almost always brings down whoever takes a lead in early game. I normally gain around 12-24 life from Serra Ascendant, and usually it only take a turn or two for my opponents to take me back down to where they are. So in my opinion despite how explosive it is in early game, Serra Ascendant is a little inconsistent and politically poor card.
Diamond Valley: is way too expensive right now for me, and Miren, the Moaning Well I'll test, but the mana cost is a little high since I don't run really big creatures in this deck.
Loxodon Hierarch: A nice inclusion if I do play a lifegain package. Also what do you think about Kitchen Finks?
Conjurer's Closet: THis is one sick card indeed, searching for one. I really like how it's at the beginning of your end step, so you normally get at least 1 use from it.
Defense of the heart: The card is nice but I can see why Pattern of Rebirth is better for this particular deck. Looking for a copy now.
Not a huge fan of Eldrazi. I ran Ulamog for a little bit but mostly for saving my graveyard with Survival of THe fittest and Entomb in response to graveyard removal. It hasn't been that effective.
False Prophet: I don't like this card too much because the exiling has negative synergies with my deck, however, with a reliable sac outlet, false prophet can be ridiculously good.
Terminus: Also negative synergy. And can't be recursed with the deck.
Overall great stuff. Thank you for your suggestions and there is a ton of stuff there I'm going to test.
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
Also, I do realize that you're trying to keep things creature oriented, Swords to plowshares and path to exile are just too good to pass up.