Could you explain what makes the deck work? Main interactions that are hard to deal with/ win conditions? It looks awesome but I'm new to the monoblack concept; usually play 3 color good stuff not necessarily synergistic.
Phyrexian Devourer ??? I don't get it. I have been thinking about a combo Mike and Griz deck, but every time I try to think of how to play it I get a nose bleed.
Could you explain what makes the deck work? Main interactions that are hard to deal with/ win conditions? It looks awesome but I'm new to the monoblack concept; usually play 3 color good stuff not necessarily synergistic.
Sorry. I should have explained the combos yesterday when I posted this but I was still annoyed about it. I'll get some into the op
Quote from trancer99 »
Phyrexian Devourer ??? I don't get it. I have been thinking about a combo Mike and Griz deck, but every time I try to think of how to play it I get a nose bleed.
Its a combo peice with Necrotic Ooze and Triskelion if You have devourer and Triskelion in the graveyard and ooze in play You copy devourer's ability with ooze to put counters on it then copy triskelions ability with ooze to turn those counters in to damage
... so do you want us to tell you how to improve or how to beat it?
cause from what i see the pin for the deck is making sure to have lots of mana. deny her resources. i would suggest running white/green/black to hate the field and to hate the grave. ghave, guru of spores is a good general cause she has no board wipes so you can punish her for it.
edit:
wow im asking whether you want a way to beat it when you post it in the decklist section ... i am so sleep deprived >.<
I like this idea, and I have figured out most of it, but Umbral Mantle? I have about 10 of them lying around, would love to find another combo with them besides silly elf tricks.
... so do you want us to tell you how to improve or how to beat it?
cause from what i see the pin for the deck is making sure to have lots of mana. deny her resources. i would suggest running white/green/black to hate the field and to hate the grave. ghave, guru of spores is a good general cause she has no board wipes so you can punish her for it.
I want to beat it but I want it to as good as it can be for Her too.
You're right about mana denial screwing it over. The dedicated hate deck I mention in the op was Grand Arbiter stax almost, lots of mana denial and lock down. I've also beat it playing a Johan hate bears type deck (found here if You're interested http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=419712 ) The Ghave idea isn't bad but I'll be pushing Her to add some removal to the deck so I don't know if that'll work or not.
Quote from trancer99 »
I like this idea, and I have figured out most of it, but Umbral Mantle? I have about 10 of them lying around, would love to find another combo with them besides silly elf tricks.
Umbral Mantle is for infinite mana with Magus of the Coffers. It's pretty much the same thing as the silly elf tricks except You count swamps instead of elves
I have literally been thinking abou this deck all day and how sick it is!
So here's my analysis:
-Griselbrand scares the poop out of everyone (plus u have so many sack outlets he is fine)
-Cabal coffers/Crypt of Agadeem+ deserted temple + rings of brighthearth= infinite mana
-Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth just cause? Simple higher swamp count I guess
-volrath's stronghold + deserted temple + rob= infinite recursion
- unholy grotto? Only 4 zombies... Even if all 4 are awesome
-cavern of souls= griselbrand's best friend
-mikaeus, the unhollowed= 2x the sacs ( I wish that arcbound ravaged+ undying + sac outlet= infinite +1/+1 counters...)... Other interactions? I guess infinite damage with triskelion :}
-fetch, lord of the vault= mana outlet for mill and stealing, good for necrotic ooze
- skirge familiar = discard outlet & mana ramp, good for necrotic ooze
-magus of the coffers + umbral mantle = infinite mana,
-pila-pala+MOTC in gy = infinite mana on a necrotic ooze
-palladium myr + pila-pala in gy = infinite mana on a necrotic ooze
-triskelion+ phyrexian devourer in gy = lots of damage from necrotic ooze
-puppeteer clique, I know it can be broken but It needs ashod's altar + nim deathmantle
-arcbound ravager? Maybe to sac an undying triskelion? Don't know... Something w/ooze
-grave crawler + blood artist + 2nd zombie + phyrexian altar = infinite damage/lifegain , sac for mana ramp, recurring body
-graveborn muse = card draw
-Rune scarred demon= beater/tutor
-Phyrexian Plaguelord= sac outlet, good ooze ability
-sadistic hypnotist= sac outlet, good ooze ability
-blood artist/falkenrath aristocrat = bleed combo
-Harvester of souls= card draw with all the sac outlets
-Dimir house guard/Netherborn phalanx = tutors
-phyrexian arena/necropotence= card draw
-heartless summoning= ramp
-leyline of the void + helm of Obedience + ROB= exile opponent's library
-Sorin Markov= ha ha opponent's life total is 10
-Liliana Vess = tutor/recursion
-vampiric tutor
-entomb= go grab an ooze target or something to top with VS... Anything else?
-shred memory= gy hate or tutor
-insidious dreams... What is the best set up?
.... It's late and typing this on an iPad ...
The rest of the cards are self explanatory I guess.... Mana doublers, tutors, and sac outlets for infinite mana combos, ROB + monolith = infinite mana, buried alive for ooze targets
I have literally been thinking abou this deck all day and how sick it is!
So here's my analysis:
-Griselbrand scares the poop out of everyone (plus u have so many sack outlets he is fine)
-Cabal coffers/Crypt of Agadeem+ deserted temple + rings of brighthearth= infinite mana
-Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth just cause? Simple higher swamp count I guess
-volrath's stronghold + deserted temple + rob= infinite recursion
- unholy grotto? Only 4 zombies... Even if all 4 are awesome
-cavern of souls= griselbrand's best friend
-mikaeus, the unhollowed= 2x the sacs ( I wish that arcbound ravaged+ undying + sac outlet= infinite +1/+1 counters...)... Other interactions? I guess infinite damage with triskelion :}
-fetch, lord of the vault= mana outlet for mill and stealing, good for necrotic ooze
- skirge familiar = discard outlet & mana ramp, good for necrotic ooze
-magus of the coffers + umbral mantle = infinite mana,
-pila-pala+MOTC in gy = infinite mana on a necrotic ooze
-palladium myr + pila-pala in gy = infinite mana on a necrotic ooze
-triskelion+ phyrexian devourer in gy = lots of damage from necrotic ooze
-puppeteer clique, I know it can be broken but It needs ashod's altar + nim deathmantle
-arcbound ravager? Maybe to sac an undying triskelion? Don't know... Something w/ooze
-grave crawler + blood artist + 2nd zombie + phyrexian altar = infinite damage/lifegain , sac for mana ramp, recurring body
-graveborn muse = card draw
-Rune scarred demon= beater/tutor
-Phyrexian Plaguelord= sac outlet, good ooze ability
-sadistic hypnotist= sac outlet, good ooze ability
-blood artist/falkenrath aristocrat = bleed combo
-Harvester of souls= card draw with all the sac outlets
-Dimir house guard/Netherborn phalanx = tutors
-phyrexian arena/necropotence= card draw
-heartless summoning= ramp
-leyline of the void + helm of Obedience + ROB= exile opponent's library
-Sorin Markov= ha ha opponent's life total is 10
-Liliana Vess = tutor/recursion
-vampiric tutor
-entomb= go grab an ooze target or something to top with VS... Anything else?
-shred memory= gy hate or tutor
-insidious dreams... What is the best set up?
.... It's late and typing this on an iPad ...
The rest of the cards are self explanatory I guess.... Mana doublers, tutors, and sac outlets for infinite mana combos, ROB + monolith = infinite mana, buried alive for ooze targets
You're on the right track. There is more but I'm in a hurry for now.
Arcbound Ravager is primarily to use with Geth + infinite mana. If You have an artifact in Your graveyard You're milled
Pupeteer Clique is broken with Mikeaus and sacrifice outlets
Arcbound Ravager is primarily to use with Geth + infinite mana. If You have an artifact in Your graveyard You're milled
It seems like a weak slot, because isn't it more likely to Geth a creature? And in that case you have A LOT of sac outlets for creatures. I say AR out, removal in;)
If you really want to beat this just play Kaalia with a bit more reanimation. Anything with Iona, Shield of Emeria is completely game over for mono black in general and this build in particular. I would recommend her to have a Brittle Effigy somewhere in case that happens..it's not like you will never see Iona!
It seems like a weak slot, because isn't it more likely to Geth a creature? And in that case you have A LOT of sac outlets for creatures. I say AR out, removal in;)
I just convinced Her to do this at about the same time You were posting this. Funny how that worked out
Quote from Nuclearsunburn »
If you really want to beat this just play Kaalia with a bit more reanimation. Anything with Iona, Shield of Emeria is completely game over for mono black in general and this build in particular. I would recommend her to have a Brittle Effigy somewhere in case that happens..it's not like you will never see Iona!
I appreciate the advice but I think I've got beating it figured out for now.
Good calls on all three of those. Anything that stomps fun-killing Iona into the ground, even if it's fun-killing Griselbrand, I approve of. Have you checked out Gaka's Griselbrand list? I goldfished it on MWS a few times and it seems...potent. In fact I saved the deck as Griselbanned. Because that's where he's headed I think. I think I like the little synergies in this deck more than the all in storm combo of Gaka's though both are extremely explosive.
Good calls on all three of those. Anything that stomps fun-killing Iona into the ground, even if it's fun-killing Griselbrand, I approve of. Have you checked out Gaka's Griselbrand list? I goldfished it on MWS a few times and it seems...potent. In fact I saved the deck as Griselbanned. Because that's where he's headed I think. I think I like the little synergies in this deck more than the all in storm combo of Gaka's though both are extremely explosive.
I have had a look at Gaka's List and I'm inclined to agree with Your assessment. Builds like that will get Griselbrand at the very least general banned. It's too all in for My taste though. I don't like the fact that an unkicked Sadistic Sacrament is effectively game over with His deck.
I really want to try this, but my meta is so full of counterspell and grave hate, not so sure it would go so great, plus this deck has a strong reliance on 3-5 key cards, as you said Sadistic Sacrament would kill Gaka's wincon, but would severely limit this deck as well.
I really want to try this, but my meta is so full of counterspell and grave hate, not so sure it would go so great, plus this deck has a strong reliance on 3-5 key cards, as you said Sadistic Sacrament would kill Gaka's wincon, but would severely limit this deck as well.
..
The Counterspells wouldn't be the big issue. The Graveyard hate would be the real problem. That's 1 advantage Gaka's build has over this, it isn't hurt as bad by graveyard hate.
You're right about Sadistic Sacrament severly limiting this deck. It's not game over but if they get Mikeaus, Geth and Exsanguinate it becomes an up hill battle
1 Griselbrand
LAND
30 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Unholy Grotto
1 Deserted Temple
1 Cavern of Souls
DUDES
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Skirge Familiar
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Pila-Pala
1 Palladium Myr
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Gravecrawler
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Blood Artist
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Netherborn Phalanx
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Shred Memory
1 Insidious Dreams
ENCHANTMENTS
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
PLANESWALKERS
1 Sorin Markov
1 Liliana Vess
SORCERIES
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Buried Alive
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Exsanguinate
1 All is Dust
1 Damnation
1 Mutilate
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Brainspoil
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Jet Medallion
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umbral Mantle
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Altar of Dementia
...
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Sorry. I should have explained the combos yesterday when I posted this but I was still annoyed about it. I'll get some into the op
Its a combo peice with Necrotic Ooze and Triskelion if You have devourer and Triskelion in the graveyard and ooze in play You copy devourer's ability with ooze to put counters on it then copy triskelions ability with ooze to turn those counters in to damage
cause from what i see the pin for the deck is making sure to have lots of mana. deny her resources. i would suggest running white/green/black to hate the field and to hate the grave. ghave, guru of spores is a good general cause she has no board wipes so you can punish her for it.
edit:
wow im asking whether you want a way to beat it when you post it in the decklist section ... i am so sleep deprived >.<
so yeah ... the deck is missing a board wipe ie. damnation, plague wind
EDH
GWSigarda, Host of EnchantressGW[Primer]
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I want to beat it but I want it to as good as it can be for Her too.
You're right about mana denial screwing it over. The dedicated hate deck I mention in the op was Grand Arbiter stax almost, lots of mana denial and lock down. I've also beat it playing a Johan hate bears type deck (found here if You're interested http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=419712 ) The Ghave idea isn't bad but I'll be pushing Her to add some removal to the deck so I don't know if that'll work or not.
Umbral Mantle is for infinite mana with Magus of the Coffers. It's pretty much the same thing as the silly elf tricks except You count swamps instead of elves
So here's my analysis:
-Griselbrand scares the poop out of everyone (plus u have so many sack outlets he is fine)
-Cabal coffers/Crypt of Agadeem+ deserted temple + rings of brighthearth= infinite mana
-Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth just cause? Simple higher swamp count I guess
-volrath's stronghold + deserted temple + rob= infinite recursion
- unholy grotto? Only 4 zombies... Even if all 4 are awesome
-cavern of souls= griselbrand's best friend
-mikaeus, the unhollowed= 2x the sacs ( I wish that arcbound ravaged+ undying + sac outlet= infinite +1/+1 counters...)... Other interactions? I guess infinite damage with triskelion :}
-fetch, lord of the vault= mana outlet for mill and stealing, good for necrotic ooze
- skirge familiar = discard outlet & mana ramp, good for necrotic ooze
-magus of the coffers + umbral mantle = infinite mana,
-pila-pala+MOTC in gy = infinite mana on a necrotic ooze
-palladium myr + pila-pala in gy = infinite mana on a necrotic ooze
-triskelion+ phyrexian devourer in gy = lots of damage from necrotic ooze
-puppeteer clique, I know it can be broken but It needs ashod's altar + nim deathmantle
-arcbound ravager? Maybe to sac an undying triskelion? Don't know... Something w/ooze
-grave crawler + blood artist + 2nd zombie + phyrexian altar = infinite damage/lifegain , sac for mana ramp, recurring body
-graveborn muse = card draw
-Rune scarred demon= beater/tutor
-Phyrexian Plaguelord= sac outlet, good ooze ability
-sadistic hypnotist= sac outlet, good ooze ability
-blood artist/falkenrath aristocrat = bleed combo
-Harvester of souls= card draw with all the sac outlets
-Dimir house guard/Netherborn phalanx = tutors
-phyrexian arena/necropotence= card draw
-heartless summoning= ramp
-leyline of the void + helm of Obedience + ROB= exile opponent's library
-Sorin Markov= ha ha opponent's life total is 10
-Liliana Vess = tutor/recursion
-vampiric tutor
-entomb= go grab an ooze target or something to top with VS... Anything else?
-shred memory= gy hate or tutor
-insidious dreams... What is the best set up?
.... It's late and typing this on an iPad ...
The rest of the cards are self explanatory I guess.... Mana doublers, tutors, and sac outlets for infinite mana combos, ROB + monolith = infinite mana, buried alive for ooze targets
You're on the right track. There is more but I'm in a hurry for now.
Arcbound Ravager is primarily to use with Geth + infinite mana. If You have an artifact in Your graveyard You're milled
Pupeteer Clique is broken with Mikeaus and sacrifice outlets
In the Gravecrawler interactions You've missed the option to do it without Blood Artist/Falkenrath Noble just for infinite storm/gravestorm for Tendrils of Agony/Bitter Ordeal
It seems like a weak slot, because isn't it more likely to Geth a creature? And in that case you have A LOT of sac outlets for creatures. I say AR out, removal in;)
I just convinced Her to do this at about the same time You were posting this. Funny how that worked out
I appreciate the advice but I think I've got beating it figured out for now.
Now that She's added All is Dust, Nevinyrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone the deck should be a bit more Iona resistant
Good calls on all three of those. Anything that stomps fun-killing Iona into the ground, even if it's fun-killing Griselbrand, I approve of. Have you checked out Gaka's Griselbrand list? I goldfished it on MWS a few times and it seems...potent. In fact I saved the deck as Griselbanned. Because that's where he's headed I think. I think I like the little synergies in this deck more than the all in storm combo of Gaka's though both are extremely explosive.
I have had a look at Gaka's List and I'm inclined to agree with Your assessment. Builds like that will get Griselbrand at the very least general banned. It's too all in for My taste though. I don't like the fact that an unkicked Sadistic Sacrament is effectively game over with His deck.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
The Counterspells wouldn't be the big issue. The Graveyard hate would be the real problem. That's 1 advantage Gaka's build has over this, it isn't hurt as bad by graveyard hate.
You're right about Sadistic Sacrament severly limiting this deck. It's not game over but if they get Mikeaus, Geth and Exsanguinate it becomes an up hill battle
Thousand-year elixir ?
I'm not sure it's needed. The deck only has 2 dudes that tap to do stuff