Hi guys! My name is Jonathan and I live in Canada. I started playing mtg in 2011 and the only format I've ever played is Commander. This amazing format is the reason I got into magic and I don't think I'll move on to anything else in the foreseeable future. I play in several different playgroups, some more competitive than others. I consider myself to be half spike and half everything else. I like combos, I like hardcasting fatties, I also pay lots of attention to card arts and flavours. However as much as I like to win, I don't play very well because I haven't been playing for as long as others. I love deckbuilding, in fact I think I enjoy building decks more than playing them. This leads us the next section.
The Tri-Colour Madness Deck Series:
As I've mentioned above, I really enjoy building decks and I see it as one of my creative outlets. I take pride in the decks I build and I enjoy seeing them being successful when played by me or others. So far I've built 10 decks, each of them features a unique tri-colour combo (yup, that's all of them!). On top of the the passion for deckbuilding, another reason for me to build so many decks is that I am relatively new to the game of mtg, and I want to try out all kinds of different decks.
You'll see a large variety of deck archetypes from this series including: timmy, theft/control, aikido(passive reactive control), ramp, rock/recursion, artifacts, mill/reanimation, tokens and voltron/aggro. For some decks, I decide on the archetype and general, then I search up all kinds of decklists online and from those I create my ideal list for that strategy(my spike side). For other decks, I just come up with an idea and dive into it blindly which results in decks that are 100% my own through extensive testing and modifying. All of my decks are built to be multiplayer oriented.
One problem that I came across when building these decks is that there are many card overlaps even though all of the decks utilize different strategies. I was unable to avoid including cards like solemn simulacrum and consecrated sphinx in every deck of the appropriate colours. I've been trying my best to avoid this and limit the number of staples that go in all my decks. In the near future I will spend some time to focus specifically on cutting those staples from my decks.
The reason for me to post this series is that I want to share my passion with all of you, and at the same time receive some feedbacks and suggestions in order to help me further improve my decks. I'm sure this will be a great experience and help me and others in many different ways. Thanks in advance!
RUG is one of my favourite colour combos. The general choice relatively limited, but all of them are very strong. Out of the four, I chose Riku of Two reflections. In my opinion a Riku deck is more consistent than Intet, The Dreamer, and less general-centric than Animar, Soul of elements. Personally I think Maelstrom Waunderer is a strong contender for a good-stuff general, possibly better than Riku. However, I prefer Riku because of his interactions with cards like Sneak Attack, and Birthing Pod.
Riku is a very flexible general that allows you to focus the deck around either, or both of his abilities. You can build the deck to be creature-based, spell based, or a mix. I chose to go for a mix. Also, because Riku's abilities don't affect artifacts or enchantments, so I tried to limit the number of those in my deck to bare minimum.
Play Riku if:
-You like flexibility. Unlike many other generals (Kaalia of the Vast for example). Riku does not tell you what to do. He can adapt to all kinds of strategies.
-You like explosiveness. Riku is not a general that you would cast in the early game. He is very demanding when it comes to mana, and when you do meet his demands, he will fuel a chain of explosions on your side of the field.
You like decks that are less general-centric:: This may be different for different builds. For my deck, however, Riku is far from crucial. I only cast Riku when I am ahead and want to cement my leading position. And Riku does a fine job at that.
-You like to shine during mid/late game:: As mentioned above, Riku isn't the best enabler for aggro strategies. He requires you to stay relatively quiet during early game, and take over when you've accumulated the resources that you need.
-You like combos and synergies: Riku is in the colour for a lot of strong infinite combos, while being the enabler of several of them himself. If you are a fan of those, Riku is a great choice as your general. Riku promotes the Johnny mindset. His unique abilities encourages you to discover cards that more than just double when copied. (overwhelming stampede, bribery etc.).
You like relatively skill-intensive decks: I firmly believe that the harder a deck is to play, the stronger it can be. The deck has a bunch of tutors, interactions, and card advantage engines. This can lead to a huge decision tree. The deck rewards skilled players, however you can also find it difficult to pilot if you are not too familiar with the deck and/or the game in general. I often find it challenging to play the deck to it's maximum potential.
Basic Land Arts
I've been a huge fan of the basic land arts on magic cards ever since I started playing the game. In the beginning I loved the zendikar ones and filled my decks with them. Then they became a bit repetitive and boring. As a result my inner Vorthos pushed me to move on and search for some other land arts that fit well in my decks. I follow a few basic guidelines when searching for my lands. Obviously they must look good. They should also be on theme with the deck, and as a result of that, the lands in a deck are mostly from the same sets/blocks. Lastly, i try to keep my lands new-boardered, just because I like them better.
For Riku, we have:
Champions of Kamigawa. This shouldn't be too surprising because Riku does have this Japanese theme to him. I've always enjoyed the Kamigawa block, not for their cards, but for their setting and storyline. Kamigawa lands are also quite beautiful, and I picked the three that are the best of RUG in my opinion. Really like them in my deck right now. I would really love to hear which lands you think are the best for this deck!
Game Plans
This is a goodstuff deck that leans towards ETB creatures. I jammed the best creatures (mostly ETB) into the deck along with tutors like tooth and nail that synergies beautifully with Riku. In addition, there are also many creature-oriented utility cards like birthing pod, and sneak attack.
Riku of two Reflections is a general who requires a ton of mana in order to reach his maximum potential. And if you do have enough mana, the advantage that Riku can generate for you is mind-blowing. Here is an example:
Cast tooth and nail entwined (9 mana) , copy with riku (2), grab Chancellor of the Spires and Avenger of Zendikar, copy both of them (4). Cast Explosive Vegetation and Violent Ultimatum from opponent's grave, and copy both of those (4). All of that came from a single card (with Riku on the field). And it costs 19 mana, and very colour intensive. (only 7 colourless). Of course this is a very rare case (has happened before), but there are tons of cards in the deck that allow Riku to copy again and again.
In order to feed this extremely mana-hungry general, ramp is a extremely crucial part of the strategy. Taking advantage of the multiplayer setting of the format and ramp hard in the early game while dropping small utility creatures to generate value and chump block. Cards like kederekt leviathan allows me to reset the board in case some decks go out of control before I am set up. Mid-late game, the deck transforms the large amount of mana into crazy board state with the help of Riku and wins the game from there. The deck does not rely heavily on Riku at all. When I play, I don't cast him very often. If the game goes smoothly, I'll cast him early game to further the advantage. If things don't go so well, I lay low and don't cast Riku until I am ready to finish the game.
THe decklist is bring constantly updated HERE for stats and graphs.
Card Choices
Threat Creatures:
Avenger of Zendikar: A go-to win-con for green decks nowadays. In Riku, it's usually quite easy to cast avenger and pump the plants to lethal size in one turn. And get in for the kill after allowing my opponents one round to come up with an answer.
Chancellor of the Spires: I mentioned this a little in the game plans section. I consider this to be one of the bomb spells in the deck. The Chancellor has a really strong etb effect and its value can be amplified exponentially with Riku on the field.
Diluvan Primordial: Chancellor of the Spires with some pluses and minuses. Personally I think this is stronger (and more interesting) than Chancellor and definitely deserves a spot in the deck.
Terastodon: Another staple in green decks. Usually blows up all of the troublesome non-creature permanents on the board with one etb trigger. Even more devastating in multiples. The premier target for overwhelming stampede, and sneak attack tricks.
Inferno Titan: I've been on the fence for this creature. It's not the best in edh, however it is still an efficient package of beater and direct damage in one. I'm trying to decide between this, Bogardan Hellkite, and Magmatic Force.
Misc. Utility Creatures:
Acidic Slime: One of the most efficient creatures in edh. Deals with a problem permanents, chump blocks like a boss, and the 5 cmc helps smoothen out my birthing pod curve.
Body Double: One of the key strengths of this deck is the number of options it has access to to deal with different situations. Body Double does just that in the mid-late game, access to any creature in any graveyard. However in early game the card is relatively weak.
Coiling Oracle: Just a really solid creature at the 2 cmc slot. A chump blocker that replaces itself at its worst. And great value if I do hit a land. (works great with Sylvan Library and top).
Deadeye Navigator: A pretty recent inclusion. With some mana open, I can reuse any etb effect I have on the field and protect all of my creatures from spot removals. Extremely powerful with Sneak Attack and Riku himself.
Duplicant: The only creature removal on a stick in this deck. The exiling is really handy.
Eternal Witness: Brilliant card for any green deck. Being on a creature allows the good old regrowth to be more tutor and recursion friendly. And allows more room for abuse.
Fierce Empath: The deck has a handful of creatures at 6 Cmc +, and being able to tutor for them gives me a wide selection for utilities. .
Kederekt Leviathan: The deck does give up boardstate development for ramp in the early game, so a reset for all non-land permanents usually swings the game in my favour. This also allows me to reuse my etb effects over and over again.
Phantsmal Image: Clone effects are real powerful in EDH because there are so many options. There is always someone with a creature that's worth copying.
Phyrexian Metamorph: The best clone in EDH, ever. For 3 mana. Grab your own copy of the best creature or artifact on the field. Or just kill a well protected general. The metamorph is never a dead card.
Sakashima's Student: Another outstanding clone effect. The Ninjutsu can catch your opponents by surprise and allow you to reuse your etb effects. The 4 mana to hard cast is also very fair.
Snapcaster Mage: Really powerful in almost any format. I'm happy to reuse a ramp spell with him, and if I get tooth and nail or time warp , its so much value.
Zealous Conscripts:: Still testing this guy, however, in a creature toolbox, the larger variety of abilities we have the better, and Zealous Conscripts offers something strong that the deck doesn't have.
Threat Instants/Sorceries:
Bribery: One of the best blue spells for edh. Has sweet interactions with Riku's abilities.
Overwhelming Stampede: Thanks to the copy and the original spell resolving one after another, this card cast and copied usually means game over.
Rite of Replication: Flexible card. Can be used as early game utility and late game win-con. However I am a bit skeptical about the chance of reliably resolving the spell kicked. Since there are too many ways to make it fizzle.
Time Warp: The "red button" of the deck. Copying it with Riku usually means I win.
Tooth and Nail: The flagship spell of green creature builds. Not much to say about this one really.
Misc.Utility Instants/Sorceries:
Beast Within: Still can't believe they printed this. A less mana-restrictive, instant-speed vindicate, FOR GREEN! I think this is staple in any green deck.
Blasphemous Act : Not the strongest boardwipe, but with RUG, this is about as good as we can get.
Chaos Warp: Beast Within for red. The drawback is worse than beast within, but tucking is a nice bonus. Also a staple in my opinion.
Chord of Calling: Amazing creature tutor spell. The instant speed allows me to access my creature tool box and find the correct response when I need it. Cast Avenger of Zendikar, convoke for a free Glen-Elendra Archmage to counter the board wipe and swing in next turn for the win. Plays like that just make me really happy.
Green Sun's Zenith: This deck has many different green creatures whose utilities range from ramp to game finisher. Green sun's Zenith allows me to play any of them for one extra mana.
Rapid Hybridization: Included this one mana removal during an attempt to lower the average CMC of this deck. It's been doing pretty well so far.
Regrowth: I don't run much recursion in this deck, and because of that, when I do use recursion spells they're usually more powerful since my graveyards are usually untouched, by me or my opponents. I run regrowth over cards like Praetor's Counsel because regrowth is relevant at all phases of the game. Getting back a Kodama's Reach in early game is a perfectly fine play.
Voidslime: Very very flexible counterspell, one of the bests in my opinion. My group runs a few copies of Decree of Annihilation , so it's also more relevant in my meta.
Rhystic Study: This is one of the less consistent of my draw spells. Currently I run this as a staple in my blue decks because my playgroups usually allows me to draw a decent amount of cards from it. However this wouldn't be nearly as effective in groups that are more cut-throat.
Worldly Tutor: A fine tutor spell for a creature heavy deck. However, it can not be copied and does lose you a card. I am on the fence about this one currently.
Watchlist
Cards that I will include with little persuasion. Please share your opinions on those!
[CARD]Knowledge Exploitation[/CAR Time Stretch: I used to have this in my deck, but then I realized this is a bit too broken especially when my playgroups are often not heavy on counterspells. When I play and copy this and, I feel almost like I pulled off an infinite combo (which I refrain from including in my decks).
Survival of the Fittest: I realize this card is amazing in almost every green deck that uses creatures. However Because I am building many decks I try to avoid using those "staples". Another problem this card is that it is so powerful and if I include it in the deck I will be tempted to warp the deck around it, which is something I don't want to do. Instead I use this card only in my graveyard recursion deck, because it makes the most sense there.
Pestermite, Deceiver Exarch , Palinchron, Worldgorger Dragon and other infinite combos. Like I've mentioned above I am personally not a fan of infinite combos. However, if you and your playgroup don't mind them, those are really strong combo pieces and pulling any of them off often means you win the game.
I can definitely attest to the power of this deck. This IMO is the strongest out of the ones you've posted. Often times it requires the cooperation of an entire table to keep it down. However one common problem I see in your decks is high average converted mana cost. Now I'm not an expert on that matter, but 4.4 is pretty high. I know that the groups you play in don't have a lot of Mass land destruction/stax decks. But facing one of those it seems like you would have trouble recovering. Maybe I should build one
THanks Chaos. The mana curve can definitely be a concern. But I'll need to test it out more. I don't know if 4.4 really is high for a commander deck. Because I haven't noticed the deck being sluggish in early game. You should help me test it out more. Also DONT BUILD THAT STUFF..
I normally make RUG aggro. My only suggestion to you would be to consider an aggro strategy for these colors. Your decklist is tight so I doubt I could make any suggestions or cuts for you. Maybe, maybe genesis wave. You have so many good misses.
Ya Recursion is definitely one thing I'm lacking in this deck, I currently only have Eternal Witness and Praetor's Counsel. Genesis should also be amazing in there. Another one I'm considering is Nostalgic Dreams, because if you copy it with riku you don't have to discard again, so you get everything back. Which ones do you use?
XeroxedFool:
Thanks for the comment! It is true that I need to play more aggro decks. However for this colour I think Animar, Soul of Elements is a much better option for that in RUG (an that thing is friggin broken). I'm really tempted to build one of those some day. Ya you have a point for Genesis Wave, I'll see what I can replace it with.
And for Rampaging Baloth, ya for sure! I really like how it doesn't draw nearly as much attention as Avenger of Zendikar. As he slowly builds up his army while Avenger explodes into one.
I used my deck this weekend and realized I took a lot out since I hadn't used it in a while. There as a lot of spells like regrowth, Call to Mind, the E witness, Praetor's Counsel, Izzet Chronarch, Scrivener, Anarchist, are the ones I can name off the top of my head. Not sure they all went in though.
Wow that's quite an ambitious project. Good luck with it! But for now let's talk about this one.
The thing that sticks out to me the most here is that your CMC is through the roof and you don't play a ton of ramp to make up for it. You have 10 cards in your whole deck you can play before turn 4. That is borderline unacceptable in my opinon even from a casual perspective. Basically, this looks like wincon.dec. How do you ensure your survival until you can go off? Your general is his own lightning rod which makes that even more difficult than usual. Lots of Riku players are targeted first because they are too explosive at endgame to allow them to live that long and they are/can be easy pickings during the early turns of the game.
Furthermore these kind of wincon-only decks can get into a lot of trouble if they are denied any resources at all. Discard and land destruction are going to just ruin your day and you'll be left just hoping you draw Avenger or Tooth and Nail.
I'll say to you what I say to a lot of Riku builders who jam the deck full of fatties. One of the best plays you can possibly make in a Riku deck ramp, T4 Riku, T5 copied Fact or Fiction. Or just a good, T5 copied Chaos Warp tucking two commanders. Neither of those cards cost more than 4. Even better: a copied Manamorphose to draw 2 and net 2 mana of any color. Riku decks are at their best when they are gaining value from cards with lower CMC, not just copying fat spells if you have the chance.
If you want this deck to have some survivability instead of just hoping no one kills you until you hit 9 or 10 mana, I would suggest cutting out at LEAST 1/3 of your high cost cards and devote that space to more ramp and some board control. Cultivate, Explosive Vegetation, Pongify, Spike Weaver. Also Fact or Fiction is the best spell in the deck after lolbroken 6-drops Primetime and Cardsphinx. The resiliency and balance you'll get filling out your curve with utility guys and removal go a long way towards keeping you in the game.
Those were only a small few of suggestions I'd make. If you want more info feel free to check out the primer thread in my sig and discuss anything you like with Magic geniuses bobthefunny, ISB, Weebo, Donald, etc. Also if you're interested, there's a $50 decklist in there that I have been playing recently that is working out very well.
Indeed the mana curve of the deck is something I often overlook when building decks, thats something I really need to pay more attention to. It's kinda funny that even my ramp spells are quite costly. So here is what I'm doing:
Also just a question, it seems like you really like Wormfang Drake in your riku Decks, how good is it for you? Because it seems to me that it wont do too much if riku isn't on the field.
Eh I think I just cut him recently in my main list. I never drew him really though so I'd say the jury's out on him for the moment. He is still good without Riku as a pure wrath deterrent but you would have sacrifice board position for it to work that way. In your situation I'd maybe just run Farhaven Elf for some more reasonable ramp/fixing on a body. If you can afford or trade for a Phyrexian Metamorph then I'd say go with that.
I was thinking a bit, and if stuff like Chord of Calling and Tooth and Nail work so well with Riku (because you get to copy both spell and creature), Tiago being basically the inverse (copy the creature then copy both flashback spells) wouldn't also be good on Riku?
The only difference from stuff like Anarchist is that the spell will be gone forever, so I'm still a little skeptical about Tiago.
Hey Lazy. Yupp I've definitely considered Tiago. Its just that he's like $25 now so they're harder to get. Still I'll try to pick one up soonish and it goes straight into the deck. I don't really mind the exile thing because this deck isn't that heavy on recursion, so using a key instant or sorcery twice is definitely enough value in my book.
Coona93: like you said spore frog is a nice card with recursion. The problem here is that it seems like Mimic Vat is the only way to recur the frog effectively. Without vat, the frog isn't that great of a card.
Chaos Redefined: Thats an interesting point. I'll decide between the potential benefit of having more targets for trinket mage verses the lands being wiped away by cards like Austere Command.
I've recently been researching for my Ghave and Riku Decks and thought I'd put in my two cents from what I've learned so far.
Ramp/Fixing
I know you're hesitant to include staples, but I think some are just unavoidable. Especially in a tri-colored deck.
First and foremost, I'm not sure how much of a budget you've allocated to building these decks but I couldn't help but notice you're not running the original dual lands.
These are handy since they have the basic land types and can be found with: Farseek Skyshroud Claim - Lands come into play Untapped Three Visits - If you have access to P3K - Forest come into play Untapped Spoils of Victory - More costs 1 more than Three Visits but you can pick any basic land type. Comes into play untapped. Nature's Lore - Land come into play Untapped
Keep in mind, all of the above will find the Original Dual lands and the Ravnica Shock lands.
Next are just some artifacts that will help you ramp and make sure you have the right colored mana to play what cards you want.
Coalition Relic Just amazing in a Multi-colored deck. It lets you store extra mana, and can give you up to 2 mana of whatever color you want.
Darksteel Ingot - Taps for 1 of Whatever color and is hard to remove.
Gilded Lotus - Although you only get one color out of it, Three of one color really helps out dropping your Avenger of Zendikar or Chancellor of the Spires.
Thran Dynamo - Advantage: Comes out a turn sooner than Gilded Lotus. Disadvantage: Only produces colorless mana.
Mana Reflection - Almost (but not quite) considered a win more card but it will definitely help you get to all your favorite fatties and wincons. Also not that it doubles the mana when you tap any permanent, not just lands. That means Gilded lotus taps for 6 of one color, and Thran Dynamo Taps for 6 colorless. I'm sure there's a few fun options with that much extra mana.
Reflecting Pool - While not as strong as the command tower, it generally opens up to all your colors in a reasonable amount of time.
Creature Cheaters Quicksilver Amulet - Drop anything you want for 4 mana Elvish Piper - This one probably won't stick on the board for long, but if you can even cheat out one fattie, it was probably worth it. And you can use all that extra mana on making Riku copies.
Creatures
Woodfall Primus - One of my personal favorites I couldn't help but notice you're missing. Works well with Gilded Lotus, and gives you extra value with Sneak Attack. For RUG on one turn with Sneak Attack out, you get to destroy 3 non-creature permanents, and end up with a 6/6 and 5/5 tramplers. For an extra UG when it comes back with persist you can destroy another non-creature permanent, and get another 6/6 trampler. Unfortunately the tokens don't work well with persist, but they are still 6/6... Combo with parallel lives for more fun. Doubling season actually hurts this card a bit since it will come in with 2 -1/-1 counters, but I think a 4/4 tramper is still decent.
Myr Battlesphere - Depending how far you want to play on your token sub-theme, this guy makes a lot of little dudes and will definitely draw some hate as just declaring him as an attacker can mean you get damage through. Works extra-well with Doubling Season/Parallel lives.
Dominus of Fealty - This one can be a bit hard to play as the cost is so restrictive, but having one (and a few token copies) can really swing things on the board. The biggest thing to note is that he can borrow any permanent. Like someone else's Blightsteel Colossus, or how about their Mirari's Wake. All yours for a turn!
Spells
Acquire - Depending on your playgroup, you may or may not want to run this. It's essentially an artifact version of Bribery but I think it's pretty helpful. Can draw you up, Swords, Mana Ramp/Fixing(Other people's Sol Rings etc), Wurmcoil Engines, Batterskulls Blatant Thievery - It's a good "Scales with the playgroup" card. It's a bit expensive but a worthwhile spell copy Target. Insurrection - I know you took this card out but I think it's a very solid win-con on it's own.
Enchantments: Concordant Crossroads - Good if you're having trouble getting into the red zone with your creatures. Use carefully though, since it globally gives haste. Works well with the Tokens you get from Sneak Attack. Propaganda - Helps deter attacks made against you. Doesn't help much with Voltron decks but it will absolutely stall against token swarm.
Artifacts: Rings of Brighthearth - More shenanigans. And at 2 colorless mana, it's pretty flexible. [Edited: Riku's ability is a triggered additional cost, not an activated ability] Deathrender - Your creature are probably going to draw a decent amount of hate. This lets you cheat more fun things on the battle field. Also a half decent Wrath Recovery and gives you more chances to use Riku's copy ability. Mirari - Depending if you wanted to make your deck more spell based, this gives you another way other than Riku to get more out of your spells. Rings of Brighthearth can also copy this ability
Swiftfoot Boots / Whispersilk Cloak - More ways to protect Riku from bad things. Since he is recognized as such a big threat, it's important to try to give him more survival options. Swiftfoot boots are Lightning greaves bigger cousin. Equip cost is 1 compared to 0, but it does have the added advantage of Hexproof over Shroud. Skullclamp - Another staple =( I know, but it works so well with Sneak Attack and 'extra' tokens to keep your hand full of goodies. Can also be a good Trinket mage target. Mind's Eye - Generic good card draw. Generally speaking, 1 mana for 1 card is a pretty good deal. Helps keep your hand stocked with threats and answers. Scales well with the number of players.
Recursion: Recollect - Costs 1 more than Regrowth, but it's another option. Academy Ruins - Players blowing up your artifacts? Here's a decent way to get back something important. Works great with the Wurmcoil Engine. Charmbreaker Devils - A little expensive but can go a long way. The only real disadvantage is it returns instants/sorceries at random. Equip with Whispersilk cloak and start casting other spells for some decent bonus damage. Crucible of Worlds - Works great with Fetch Lands, Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Dust Bowl - Depending on how much land destruction you need for your playgroup. Riptide Laboratory - Combo with Izzet Cronarc to get more cards back or Help Protect Riku by bouncing him back to your hand. Artisan of Kozilek - Good body, Annihilator is scary and brings a friend back from the graveyard when cast. Vengeful Rebirth - A bit expensive but has a great effect when bringing back fatties or win-cons.
I'm sure I've missed a few, but I hope that's enough food for thought. I'd welcome any discussion on the cards =D
Artifacts: Rings of Brighthearth - Like Riku's Abilities? Think they are worthwhile doing again? Probably! - Gives you more room for shenanigans. And at 2 colorless mana, it's pretty flexible.
Sadly, it doesn't work. Rings copies activated abilities, but Riku has two triggered abilities. You would have to rely on Mirari and Minion Reflector for backup.
Well darn, now I feel foolish.
Is it still worth while running them? How many cards with Activated Abilities would you want before you'd put them in your deck. I guess you could also copy the Academy Ruins...
Personally, I wouldn't run them. Rings is a good card, but how many slots do you want to dedicate to backup-to-your-backup? Ruins is great because it doesn't take a slot (it doubles as part of your mana base), but how many times are you going to need to double it's ability? Do you really need to set the next two draws as artifacts? Seems like Rings would just be wasting a slot in a Riku deck. Some other decks, on the other hand...
Funky Dragon, thank so so much for the input. Here is my opinion on those cards:
Revised Duals: Yes Those are epic. However they are crazy expensive too. Here is my understanding (misconception?) when it comes to dual lands. They are definitely great for your deck, but no so great that it's worth paying hundreds of dollars for them. For example, I currently run the tenth edition pain lands as budget alternatives to duals. And painlands are worth a lot less for 2 reasons: Painlands deal damage to you, and they can't be fetched easily. The damage in my opinion isn't a huge deal in EDH. The fetching part can be, but I'm not sure if it justifies the 10-15x price difference. There are many cards like the duals which are staples in other formats like Legacy, and thats what drives the price up. As a result, their usefulness in EDH is nowhere near properly represented by their high price. This is just my opinion on those, would love to hear yours!!
Artifact Ramp: Those are all great, however I also have this weird little colour-pir theory when considering card choices. Ramp is green's speciality, and artifact ramp basically makes green's ramp available to all colours. Therefore artifact ramp must be worse than green ramp spells. I know this is very one dimensional. However I believe that artifact ramp is almost strictly worse than land ramp in a green deck that plays in an environment that lacks mass land destruction spells (my playgroups). What do you think.
Mana Reflection: definitely a sick card, I need to find a copy.
Reflecting Pool: Just acquired a few, going straight into my decks.
Sakura-Tribe Elder: I used to run this. However there isn't much recursion in this deck, so often times Sakura is just the same as a rampant growth. So I replaced it with better ramp spells like Cultivate.
Woodfall Primus: Legit card is Legit. The interaction of persist with Sneak attack and Riku makes the card really tempting. I think I'll put it into the deck as soon as I find one.
Myr Battlesphere: Again, my colour pie thinking kicks in :). Are there better green token producers than battlesphere?
Acquire: I used to run this because this guy in my playgroup relys on Blightsteel as his primary win-con. Then I took it out for Bribery. It's probably not a bad idea to run both though. Will seriously consider it.
Propaganda: I actually run this in a more defensive deck of mine (zedruu). Its a great card but I'm not sure if its on theme with this deck since its more of a good-stuff inclusion.
Rings of Brighthearth: Even though it doesn't help riku, I still see many Riku lists running it because its so good. However it doesn't seem like I have enough activated abilities in the deck to justify the inclusion of rings.
Swiftfoot boots: Definitely worth considering. Just need to find space.
Skullclamp: Not as good in this deck as it is in others. Still a great card though.
Mind's Eye: This triggers my colour pie thing again. I think blue has better options for card draw.
All the Recursion: I WILL slowly add a recurion package into riku, since I believe that any non-graveyard deck can benefit greatly by running some of that.
Solid suggestions are solid. MOst are them are really good and many reminded me of great cards that I completely forgot about. Thanks again!!
Revised duals:
Their worth really depends on your playgroup and on your deck. From what I've learned, (and anyone feel free to correct me here) what the dual lands really do is speed up your deck and increase consistency. You really nailed it with your comment about fetching.
1) The reason I'm a big fan of the Revised Duals/Shock lands is it allows you to be very aggressive on card selection. *Because* you can fetch a dual it allows you to include cards that have a very strict mana cost and use them much sooner on average. Thus this reduces 'dead' cards in your hand. This holds especially true when dealing with Double or Triple costed cards early in the game.
2) By having alternative sources for colored mana, you are able to run more utility lands. Having the dual lands means your deck is more able to accommodate lands that only produce colorless. This becomes more valuable if you have to run some land destruction. (Strip mine, Ghost Quarter etc.). Conversely the additional redundancy reduces your vulnerability to land destruction.
3) The Dual Lands are a tap-land enabler. Since they count as both basic land types, it decreases the odds that your Hinterland Harbor etc. will come in tapped. This again helps out if you've put in more utility lands.
Personally in my Riku and Ghave Decks, I run all 3 types: Dual lands, Shock lands and Fetch lands. I'm still on the fence about filter lands, but we'll see. Whether or not you include the dual lands I suppose depends on the general power level of your playgroup. My usual playgroup runs some very powerful decks that have an easier time with mana since the deck is Mono colored (Omnath) or Dual colored.
Concordant Crossroads
1) Consistency. Especially if Urabrask somehow ends up in the grave yard. Sure you can always tutor for Urabrask but having this card in hand means you don't have to. You can go straight up for Avenger/Primeval Titan or whatever your favorite combo is AND still have haste. If you manage to copy your entwined Tooth and Nail, you can get a different creature instead of Urabrask. Like Kiki-jiki, or Phyrexian Metamorph and make an even bigger bomb of it.
2) At one Green, it's a pretty cheap Haste enabler. The obvious disadvantage it's it's an Enchant World / Global Effect but I'm pretty sure I'd only drop it as part of my finisher.
3) It's harder to get rid of. Especially if your playgroup has spot removal. Instant speed enchantment destruction is a lot more rare than instant speed creature destruction. *Theoretically* speaking, if you were to Tooth and Nail your Combo with Urabrask, someone could kill our red praetor friend before you declare attackers. Especially if you're going after the whole board, your Glen Elendra Archmage may not be enough on her own.
Crop Rotation / Expedition Map - I forgot about these gems. Their advantage is you can tutor for Any land. Early game you can find your duals, late game you can pull up your utility lands.
Mind's Eye
While I agree your thought process is correct, you need to evaluate the card as a whole. There are two ways to decrease the power level of a card. Cost and Effect. For Mind's Eye, the "Penalty" if you will of using a blue-pie ability is built into it's cost. Being able to use it's draw ability is predicated on an opponent drawing a card. Because of this 'drawback' the activation cost of this card is much lower. :1mana:(dump extra whatever colored mana here) This effect is highly repeatable, and as previously mentioned scales very well with the number of players in the game and doubly so if they draw cards outside of their draw step.
Let's look at two other cards for a quick comparison.
Sphinx of Magosi (Not the best example)
Advantages:
- Big Body that gets bigger when you use his ability to draw cards
- Repeatable, controlled card draw - you can draw as many cards as you have mana for whenever you want.
Disadvantages:
- he costs :symu::symu::symu: to cast
-Cost of Drawing Cards - Because there is no restriction here, it costs :2mana::symu: for one card. The mana cost is 3 times that of Mind's Eye and one of those mana paid must be blue.
-He's a creature and vulnerable to mind control, removal and board wipes.
Consecrated Sphinx
Advantages:
- More Card draw at no mana cost
- Respectable Body with evasion
- Repeatable Card draw
Disadvantages:
-Requires :symu::symu:
-Vulnerable to board-wipes, spot removal, and mind control - Since he is so good he's definitely going to draw some attention to himself.
I can't believe I forgot the Consecrated Sphinx as well. Initial cost aside, in terms of card drawing power, this guy is amazing. He has the same costed pre-condition of the Mind's Eye. (whenever an opponent draws a card) As an added bonus, he's not legendary so you can Riku-copy him.
So I would lean towards the Consecrated Sphinx, but I wouldn't completely discount Mind's Eye.
Alythe!! Sorry about the late reply, but here it is!
Dual Lands: Really good arguments. indirect card advantage by reducing dead cards, allowing more utility lands and enabling m12 duals are all very strong points in favour of running those lands. You've changed my mind about them. Its gonna be hard but I'll search for those.
Concordant Crossroads: Ya i guess there is barely any point casting Urabrask unless you're ready to win. And concordant does just that. I'm testing it on cockatrice right now!
Crop Rotation: Cool card is cool. I'd love to play it if I do run more utility lands. However for now in riku I don't think I have enough. However I'm still tempted to try it as a way to thin out my deck in late game, and crazy land fall triggers with avenger of zendikar and rampaging baloths.
Mind's Eye: Compared to those draw-creatures I can definitely see how Mind's Eye is better at staying on the board. However, realistically, no matter how strong the effect is Mind's Eye is always a target in my group because it has a pretty high initial investment, and the longer they let it live, the more undercosted card-draw I'll get. Another problem here is that Mind's eye doesn't work with riku. I'd like to make a comparison with Tidings IMO a relatively mediocre draw spell in the deck.
In the deck, Tidings draws 4 cards for 5 mana, and 8 cards for 7 if Riku copies it. On the other hand, it costs 9 mana to draw 4 with Mind's Eye and 13 mana to draw 8. I realize that Tidings has :symu::symu: in its cost and:symu::symr: needs to be paid for copying. However I don't think it's a huge drawback if you manafix well enough. (will search for duals, i promise). Another benefit of Mind's Eye is that you don't have to stop at 4 or 8, you can keep going for as long as it remains on the field. Also, often times I notice this trend in many playgroups where there is an "extra attention" period for cards like Mind's Eye. During frist the 2 or so turns after I cast it, my opponents tend to see it as more of a threat and try to remove it if possible. However, after I've drawn a good number of cards from it, my opponents often think that it's too late to remove it since I already drew from it, and move on to other things. Thats when I can go crazy with Mind's Eye and generate epic value from it. What am I trying to say now? I have no, idea I'm just going all over the place. However I am also testing this card on cockatrice and see how it does for me.
If you really wanted to stack landfall triggers, you can Riku-copy Crop Rotation, searching for 2 Fetch lands, and then sac them to find 2 more lands. 4 Landfall triggers isn't too shabby for 3 mana. And again, I just wanted to re-iterate, Crop Rotation is also good for mana fixing since it will allow you to bring in Dual/Shock/Fetch lands untapped.
Returning to Rings of Brighthearth, it won't work with Minion Reflector the same way that Riku doesn't. Since the text's reads: "Whenever..." it's a triggered ability, not an activated one. Still for in a creature heavy deck, I think it could be worth it.
Riku of Two Reflections
Introduction
The Tri-Colour Madness Deck Series:
You'll see a large variety of deck archetypes from this series including: timmy, theft/control, aikido(passive reactive control), ramp, rock/recursion, artifacts, mill/reanimation, tokens and voltron/aggro. For some decks, I decide on the archetype and general, then I search up all kinds of decklists online and from those I create my ideal list for that strategy(my spike side). For other decks, I just come up with an idea and dive into it blindly which results in decks that are 100% my own through extensive testing and modifying. All of my decks are built to be multiplayer oriented.
One problem that I came across when building these decks is that there are many card overlaps even though all of the decks utilize different strategies. I was unable to avoid including cards like solemn simulacrum and consecrated sphinx in every deck of the appropriate colours. I've been trying my best to avoid this and limit the number of staples that go in all my decks. In the near future I will spend some time to focus specifically on cutting those staples from my decks.
The reason for me to post this series is that I want to share my passion with all of you, and at the same time receive some feedbacks and suggestions in order to help me further improve my decks. I'm sure this will be a great experience and help me and others in many different ways. Thanks in advance!
Here are deck lists that I've posted so far:
:symr::symu::symg: Riku's RUG Goodstuff Deck
:symb::symr::symg: Kresh's Ultimate Timmy Deck
:symw::symu::symb: Sharuum's Etherium Empire
:symu::symb::symr: Thraximundar!!! Theft Deck
:symg::symb::symu: The Mimeoplasm Mill/Reanimator
:symr::symw::symu: Zedruu's Defense/Sunforger Deck
:symb::symg::symw: Karador Rock/Recursion Deck
:symg::symw::symu: Rafiq of the 1HKO
:symr::symg::symw: Rith and Her Token Army
The Mage:
RUG is one of my favourite colour combos. The general choice relatively limited, but all of them are very strong. Out of the four, I chose Riku of Two reflections. In my opinion a Riku deck is more consistent than Intet, The Dreamer, and less general-centric than Animar, Soul of elements. Personally I think Maelstrom Waunderer is a strong contender for a good-stuff general, possibly better than Riku. However, I prefer Riku because of his interactions with cards like Sneak Attack, and Birthing Pod.
Riku is a very flexible general that allows you to focus the deck around either, or both of his abilities. You can build the deck to be creature-based, spell based, or a mix. I chose to go for a mix. Also, because Riku's abilities don't affect artifacts or enchantments, so I tried to limit the number of those in my deck to bare minimum.
Play Riku if:
-You like flexibility. Unlike many other generals (Kaalia of the Vast for example). Riku does not tell you what to do. He can adapt to all kinds of strategies.
-You like explosiveness. Riku is not a general that you would cast in the early game. He is very demanding when it comes to mana, and when you do meet his demands, he will fuel a chain of explosions on your side of the field.
You like decks that are less general-centric:: This may be different for different builds. For my deck, however, Riku is far from crucial. I only cast Riku when I am ahead and want to cement my leading position. And Riku does a fine job at that.
-You like to shine during mid/late game:: As mentioned above, Riku isn't the best enabler for aggro strategies. He requires you to stay relatively quiet during early game, and take over when you've accumulated the resources that you need.
-You like combos and synergies: Riku is in the colour for a lot of strong infinite combos, while being the enabler of several of them himself. If you are a fan of those, Riku is a great choice as your general. Riku promotes the Johnny mindset. His unique abilities encourages you to discover cards that more than just double when copied. (overwhelming stampede, bribery etc.).
You like relatively skill-intensive decks: I firmly believe that the harder a deck is to play, the stronger it can be. The deck has a bunch of tutors, interactions, and card advantage engines. This can lead to a huge decision tree. The deck rewards skilled players, however you can also find it difficult to pilot if you are not too familiar with the deck and/or the game in general. I often find it challenging to play the deck to it's maximum potential.
Basic Land Arts
For Riku, we have:
Champions of Kamigawa. This shouldn't be too surprising because Riku does have this Japanese theme to him. I've always enjoyed the Kamigawa block, not for their cards, but for their setting and storyline. Kamigawa lands are also quite beautiful, and I picked the three that are the best of RUG in my opinion. Really like them in my deck right now. I would really love to hear which lands you think are the best for this deck!
Game Plans
Riku of two Reflections is a general who requires a ton of mana in order to reach his maximum potential. And if you do have enough mana, the advantage that Riku can generate for you is mind-blowing. Here is an example:
Cast tooth and nail entwined (9 mana) , copy with riku (2), grab Chancellor of the Spires and Avenger of Zendikar, copy both of them (4). Cast Explosive Vegetation and Violent Ultimatum from opponent's grave, and copy both of those (4). All of that came from a single card (with Riku on the field). And it costs 19 mana, and very colour intensive. (only 7 colourless). Of course this is a very rare case (has happened before), but there are tons of cards in the deck that allow Riku to copy again and again.
In order to feed this extremely mana-hungry general, ramp is a extremely crucial part of the strategy. Taking advantage of the multiplayer setting of the format and ramp hard in the early game while dropping small utility creatures to generate value and chump block. Cards like kederekt leviathan allows me to reset the board in case some decks go out of control before I am set up. Mid-late game, the deck transforms the large amount of mana into crazy board state with the help of Riku and wins the game from there. The deck does not rely heavily on Riku at all. When I play, I don't cast him very often. If the game goes smoothly, I'll cast him early game to further the advantage. If things don't go so well, I lay low and don't cast Riku until I am ready to finish the game.
Decklist
1x Riku of Two Reflections
Threat Creatures:
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Chancellor of the Spires
1x Diluvan Primordial
1x Inferno Titan
1x Terastodon
Misc. Utility Creatures:
1x Acidic Slime
1x Body Double
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Duplicant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
1x Gilded Drake
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Kederekt Leviathan
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Mindclaw Shaman
1x Mystic Snake
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Progenitor Mimic
1x Sakashima's Student
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Trinket Mage
Threat Instants/Sorceries
1x Bribery
1x Overwhelming Stampede
1x Time Warp
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Beast Within
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Chaos Warp
1x Chord of Calling
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Regrowth
1x Voidslime
1x Worldly Tutor
Ramp:
1x Cultivate
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Farhaven Elf
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sol Ring
1x Sylvan Primordial
1x Wood Elves
Card Draw/Filtering:
1x Mulldrifter
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Recurring Insight
1x Rhystic Study
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sphinx of Uthuun
1x Sylvan Library
1x Birthing Pod
1x Sneak Attack
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mimic Vat
Lands:
1x Breeding Pool
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Flooded Grove
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Wooded Foothills
8x Forest
7x Island
5x Mountain
1x Command Tower
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Mosswort Bridge
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Alchemist's Refuge
Deckstat
THe decklist is bring constantly updated HERE for stats and graphs.
Card Choices
Threat Creatures:
Avenger of Zendikar: A go-to win-con for green decks nowadays. In Riku, it's usually quite easy to cast avenger and pump the plants to lethal size in one turn. And get in for the kill after allowing my opponents one round to come up with an answer.
Chancellor of the Spires: I mentioned this a little in the game plans section. I consider this to be one of the bomb spells in the deck. The Chancellor has a really strong etb effect and its value can be amplified exponentially with Riku on the field.
Diluvan Primordial: Chancellor of the Spires with some pluses and minuses. Personally I think this is stronger (and more interesting) than Chancellor and definitely deserves a spot in the deck.
Terastodon: Another staple in green decks. Usually blows up all of the troublesome non-creature permanents on the board with one etb trigger. Even more devastating in multiples. The premier target for overwhelming stampede, and sneak attack tricks.
Inferno Titan: I've been on the fence for this creature. It's not the best in edh, however it is still an efficient package of beater and direct damage in one. I'm trying to decide between this, Bogardan Hellkite, and Magmatic Force.
Misc. Utility Creatures:
Acidic Slime: One of the most efficient creatures in edh. Deals with a problem permanents, chump blocks like a boss, and the 5 cmc helps smoothen out my birthing pod curve.
Body Double: One of the key strengths of this deck is the number of options it has access to to deal with different situations. Body Double does just that in the mid-late game, access to any creature in any graveyard. However in early game the card is relatively weak.
Coiling Oracle: Just a really solid creature at the 2 cmc slot. A chump blocker that replaces itself at its worst. And great value if I do hit a land. (works great with Sylvan Library and top).
Deadeye Navigator: A pretty recent inclusion. With some mana open, I can reuse any etb effect I have on the field and protect all of my creatures from spot removals. Extremely powerful with Sneak Attack and Riku himself.
Duplicant: The only creature removal on a stick in this deck. The exiling is really handy.
Eternal Witness: Brilliant card for any green deck. Being on a creature allows the good old regrowth to be more tutor and recursion friendly. And allows more room for abuse.
Fierce Empath: The deck has a handful of creatures at 6 Cmc +, and being able to tutor for them gives me a wide selection for utilities. .
Glen Elendra Archmage: One of the few counterspells in the deck. Persist combos nicely with Riku, and flashing it in with sneak attack, Alchemist's Refuge and even Chord of Calling can definitely catch my opponents by surprise.
Kederekt Leviathan: The deck does give up boardstate development for ramp in the early game, so a reset for all non-land permanents usually swings the game in my favour. This also allows me to reuse my etb effects over and over again.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: No intentions for infinite combos, but this goblin is still extremely powerful with a deck full of ETB creatures. Works beautifully with Birthing Pod and Minamo, School at Water's Edge.
Mystic Snake:Counterspell on a stick. Works beautifully with sneak attack, Chord of Calling, and Deadeye Navigator, if you decide to go that far.
Phantsmal Image: Clone effects are real powerful in EDH because there are so many options. There is always someone with a creature that's worth copying.
Phyrexian Metamorph: The best clone in EDH, ever. For 3 mana. Grab your own copy of the best creature or artifact on the field. Or just kill a well protected general. The metamorph is never a dead card.
Sakashima's Student: Another outstanding clone effect. The Ninjutsu can catch your opponents by surprise and allow you to reuse your etb effects. The 4 mana to hard cast is also very fair.
Snapcaster Mage: Really powerful in almost any format. I'm happy to reuse a ramp spell with him, and if I get tooth and nail or time warp , its so much value.
Zealous Conscripts:: Still testing this guy, however, in a creature toolbox, the larger variety of abilities we have the better, and Zealous Conscripts offers something strong that the deck doesn't have.
Threat Instants/Sorceries:
Bribery: One of the best blue spells for edh. Has sweet interactions with Riku's abilities.
Overwhelming Stampede: Thanks to the copy and the original spell resolving one after another, this card cast and copied usually means game over.
Rite of Replication: Flexible card. Can be used as early game utility and late game win-con. However I am a bit skeptical about the chance of reliably resolving the spell kicked. Since there are too many ways to make it fizzle.
Time Warp: The "red button" of the deck. Copying it with Riku usually means I win.
Tooth and Nail: The flagship spell of green creature builds. Not much to say about this one really.
Misc.Utility Instants/Sorceries:
Beast Within: Still can't believe they printed this. A less mana-restrictive, instant-speed vindicate, FOR GREEN! I think this is staple in any green deck.
Blasphemous Act : Not the strongest boardwipe, but with RUG, this is about as good as we can get.
Chaos Warp: Beast Within for red. The drawback is worse than beast within, but tucking is a nice bonus. Also a staple in my opinion.
Chord of Calling: Amazing creature tutor spell. The instant speed allows me to access my creature tool box and find the correct response when I need it. Cast Avenger of Zendikar, convoke for a free Glen-Elendra Archmage to counter the board wipe and swing in next turn for the win. Plays like that just make me really happy.
Green Sun's Zenith: This deck has many different green creatures whose utilities range from ramp to game finisher. Green sun's Zenith allows me to play any of them for one extra mana.
Rapid Hybridization: Included this one mana removal during an attempt to lower the average CMC of this deck. It's been doing pretty well so far.
Regrowth: I don't run much recursion in this deck, and because of that, when I do use recursion spells they're usually more powerful since my graveyards are usually untouched, by me or my opponents. I run regrowth over cards like Praetor's Counsel because regrowth is relevant at all phases of the game. Getting back a Kodama's Reach in early game is a perfectly fine play.
Voidslime: Very very flexible counterspell, one of the bests in my opinion. My group runs a few copies of Decree of Annihilation , so it's also more relevant in my meta.
Rhystic Study: This is one of the less consistent of my draw spells. Currently I run this as a staple in my blue decks because my playgroups usually allows me to draw a decent amount of cards from it. However this wouldn't be nearly as effective in groups that are more cut-throat.
Worldly Tutor: A fine tutor spell for a creature heavy deck. However, it can not be copied and does lose you a card. I am on the fence about this one currently.
Watchlist
Cards that I will include with little persuasion. Please share your opinions on those!
Seedborn Muse package: We all know how powerful the card is. With Alchemist's Refuge already in the deck, I am tempted to add in Seedborn Muse and Leyline of Anticipation. However the problem is without the two flash enablers cards Seedborn Muse is too often a dead card since I don't run too many instants.
[CARD]Knowledge Exploitation[/CAR
Time Stretch: I used to have this in my deck, but then I realized this is a bit too broken especially when my playgroups are often not heavy on counterspells. When I play and copy this and, I feel almost like I pulled off an infinite combo (which I refrain from including in my decks).
Survival of the Fittest: I realize this card is amazing in almost every green deck that uses creatures. However Because I am building many decks I try to avoid using those "staples". Another problem this card is that it is so powerful and if I include it in the deck I will be tempted to warp the deck around it, which is something I don't want to do. Instead I use this card only in my graveyard recursion deck, because it makes the most sense there.
Genesis : Same as above.
Pestermite, Deceiver Exarch , Palinchron, Worldgorger Dragon and other infinite combos. Like I've mentioned above I am personally not a fan of infinite combos. However, if you and your playgroup don't mind them, those are really strong combo pieces and pulling any of them off often means you win the game.
Changelog
+ Kodama's Reach -Magmatic Force
+ Coiling Oracle -Insurrection
+ Wood Elves -Inferno Titan
+ Pongify -Genesis Wave
+Fact or Fiction -Tiding
5.15.2012 (XeroxedFool, Lazy Lockie)
+Snapcaster Mage -Genesis Wave
Thanks for reading my deck tech, please also check my other lists in the series if you're interested!
I might steal a bit off you but I'd like to share with something I've done.
I have a lot of recursion (When this ETB , return X from your graveyard to your hand)
This usually isnt CA but when you double it, it becomes that. Then whatever threat is the hardest to get rid off can never be really gotten rid of ;P
I loooove Rampaging Baloths. Its my 2nd Avenger.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Ya Recursion is definitely one thing I'm lacking in this deck, I currently only have Eternal Witness and Praetor's Counsel. Genesis should also be amazing in there. Another one I'm considering is Nostalgic Dreams, because if you copy it with riku you don't have to discard again, so you get everything back. Which ones do you use?
XeroxedFool:
Thanks for the comment! It is true that I need to play more aggro decks. However for this colour I think Animar, Soul of Elements is a much better option for that in RUG (an that thing is friggin broken). I'm really tempted to build one of those some day. Ya you have a point for Genesis Wave, I'll see what I can replace it with.
And for Rampaging Baloth, ya for sure! I really like how it doesn't draw nearly as much attention as Avenger of Zendikar. As he slowly builds up his army while Avenger explodes into one.
Cheers
The thing that sticks out to me the most here is that your CMC is through the roof and you don't play a ton of ramp to make up for it. You have 10 cards in your whole deck you can play before turn 4. That is borderline unacceptable in my opinon even from a casual perspective. Basically, this looks like wincon.dec. How do you ensure your survival until you can go off? Your general is his own lightning rod which makes that even more difficult than usual. Lots of Riku players are targeted first because they are too explosive at endgame to allow them to live that long and they are/can be easy pickings during the early turns of the game.
Furthermore these kind of wincon-only decks can get into a lot of trouble if they are denied any resources at all. Discard and land destruction are going to just ruin your day and you'll be left just hoping you draw Avenger or Tooth and Nail.
I'll say to you what I say to a lot of Riku builders who jam the deck full of fatties. One of the best plays you can possibly make in a Riku deck ramp, T4 Riku, T5 copied Fact or Fiction. Or just a good, T5 copied Chaos Warp tucking two commanders. Neither of those cards cost more than 4. Even better: a copied Manamorphose to draw 2 and net 2 mana of any color. Riku decks are at their best when they are gaining value from cards with lower CMC, not just copying fat spells if you have the chance.
If you want this deck to have some survivability instead of just hoping no one kills you until you hit 9 or 10 mana, I would suggest cutting out at LEAST 1/3 of your high cost cards and devote that space to more ramp and some board control. Cultivate, Explosive Vegetation, Pongify, Spike Weaver. Also Fact or Fiction is the best spell in the deck after lolbroken 6-drops Primetime and Cardsphinx. The resiliency and balance you'll get filling out your curve with utility guys and removal go a long way towards keeping you in the game.
Those were only a small few of suggestions I'd make. If you want more info feel free to check out the primer thread in my sig and discuss anything you like with Magic geniuses bobthefunny, ISB, Weebo, Donald, etc. Also if you're interested, there's a $50 decklist in there that I have been playing recently that is working out very well.
Again, good luck with your project.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Indeed the mana curve of the deck is something I often overlook when building decks, thats something I really need to pay more attention to. It's kinda funny that even my ramp spells are quite costly. So here is what I'm doing:
Magmatic Force -> Kodama's Reach
Insurrection -> Coiling Oracle
Inferno Titan -> Wood Elves
Genesis Wave -> Pongify
Will put in Fact or Fiction once I find one.
Also just a question, it seems like you really like Wormfang Drake in your riku Decks, how good is it for you? Because it seems to me that it wont do too much if riku isn't on the field.
Thanks again for the comments!
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I was thinking a bit, and if stuff like Chord of Calling and Tooth and Nail work so well with Riku (because you get to copy both spell and creature), Tiago being basically the inverse (copy the creature then copy both flashback spells) wouldn't also be good on Riku?
The only difference from stuff like Anarchist is that the spell will be gone forever, so I'm still a little skeptical about Tiago.
My old nickname was lockheart87.
Chaos Redefined: Thats an interesting point. I'll decide between the potential benefit of having more targets for trinket mage verses the lands being wiped away by cards like Austere Command.
Thanks for the comments!
Ramp/Fixing
I know you're hesitant to include staples, but I think some are just unavoidable. Especially in a tri-colored deck.
First and foremost, I'm not sure how much of a budget you've allocated to building these decks but I couldn't help but notice you're not running the original dual lands.
Taiga
Volcanic Island
Tropical Island
These are handy since they have the basic land types and can be found with:
Farseek
Skyshroud Claim - Lands come into play Untapped
Three Visits - If you have access to P3K - Forest come into play Untapped
Spoils of Victory - More costs 1 more than Three Visits but you can pick any basic land type. Comes into play untapped.
Nature's Lore - Land come into play Untapped
Keep in mind, all of the above will find the Original Dual lands and the Ravnica Shock lands.
Next are just some artifacts that will help you ramp and make sure you have the right colored mana to play what cards you want.
Coalition Relic Just amazing in a Multi-colored deck. It lets you store extra mana, and can give you up to 2 mana of whatever color you want.
Darksteel Ingot - Taps for 1 of Whatever color and is hard to remove.
Gilded Lotus - Although you only get one color out of it, Three of one color really helps out dropping your Avenger of Zendikar or Chancellor of the Spires.
Thran Dynamo - Advantage: Comes out a turn sooner than Gilded Lotus. Disadvantage: Only produces colorless mana.
Mana Reflection - Almost (but not quite) considered a win more card but it will definitely help you get to all your favorite fatties and wincons. Also not that it doubles the mana when you tap any permanent, not just lands. That means Gilded lotus taps for 6 of one color, and Thran Dynamo Taps for 6 colorless. I'm sure there's a few fun options with that much extra mana.
Reflecting Pool - While not as strong as the command tower, it generally opens up to all your colors in a reasonable amount of time.
Sakura-tribe Elder / Yavimaya Elder - Helps get land out.
Birds of Paradise - Generic Ramp but gives any color on a one drop.
Creature Cheaters
Quicksilver Amulet - Drop anything you want for 4 mana
Elvish Piper - This one probably won't stick on the board for long, but if you can even cheat out one fattie, it was probably worth it. And you can use all that extra mana on making Riku copies.
Creatures
Woodfall Primus - One of my personal favorites I couldn't help but notice you're missing. Works well with Gilded Lotus, and gives you extra value with Sneak Attack. For RUG on one turn with Sneak Attack out, you get to destroy 3 non-creature permanents, and end up with a 6/6 and 5/5 tramplers. For an extra UG when it comes back with persist you can destroy another non-creature permanent, and get another 6/6 trampler. Unfortunately the tokens don't work well with persist, but they are still 6/6... Combo with parallel lives for more fun. Doubling season actually hurts this card a bit since it will come in with 2 -1/-1 counters, but I think a 4/4 tramper is still decent.
Myr Battlesphere - Depending how far you want to play on your token sub-theme, this guy makes a lot of little dudes and will definitely draw some hate as just declaring him as an attacker can mean you get damage through. Works extra-well with Doubling Season/Parallel lives.
Dominus of Fealty - This one can be a bit hard to play as the cost is so restrictive, but having one (and a few token copies) can really swing things on the board. The biggest thing to note is that he can borrow any permanent. Like someone else's Blightsteel Colossus, or how about their Mirari's Wake. All yours for a turn!
Spells
Acquire - Depending on your playgroup, you may or may not want to run this. It's essentially an artifact version of Bribery but I think it's pretty helpful. Can draw you up, Swords, Mana Ramp/Fixing(Other people's Sol Rings etc), Wurmcoil Engines, Batterskulls
Blatant Thievery - It's a good "Scales with the playgroup" card. It's a bit expensive but a worthwhile spell copy Target.
Insurrection - I know you took this card out but I think it's a very solid win-con on it's own.
Enchantments:
Concordant Crossroads - Good if you're having trouble getting into the red zone with your creatures. Use carefully though, since it globally gives haste. Works well with the Tokens you get from Sneak Attack.
Propaganda - Helps deter attacks made against you. Doesn't help much with Voltron decks but it will absolutely stall against token swarm.
Artifacts:
Rings of Brighthearth - More shenanigans. And at 2 colorless mana, it's pretty flexible. [Edited: Riku's ability is a triggered additional cost, not an activated ability]
Deathrender - Your creature are probably going to draw a decent amount of hate. This lets you cheat more fun things on the battle field. Also a half decent Wrath Recovery and gives you more chances to use Riku's copy ability.
Mirari - Depending if you wanted to make your deck more spell based, this gives you another way other than Riku to get more out of your spells. Rings of Brighthearth can also copy this ability
Swiftfoot Boots / Whispersilk Cloak - More ways to protect Riku from bad things. Since he is recognized as such a big threat, it's important to try to give him more survival options. Swiftfoot boots are Lightning greaves bigger cousin. Equip cost is 1 compared to 0, but it does have the added advantage of Hexproof over Shroud.
Skullclamp - Another staple =( I know, but it works so well with Sneak Attack and 'extra' tokens to keep your hand full of goodies. Can also be a good Trinket mage target.
Mind's Eye - Generic good card draw. Generally speaking, 1 mana for 1 card is a pretty good deal. Helps keep your hand stocked with threats and answers. Scales well with the number of players.
Recursion:
Recollect - Costs 1 more than Regrowth, but it's another option.
Academy Ruins - Players blowing up your artifacts? Here's a decent way to get back something important. Works great with the Wurmcoil Engine.
Charmbreaker Devils - A little expensive but can go a long way. The only real disadvantage is it returns instants/sorceries at random. Equip with Whispersilk cloak and start casting other spells for some decent bonus damage.
Crucible of Worlds - Works great with Fetch Lands, Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Dust Bowl - Depending on how much land destruction you need for your playgroup.
Riptide Laboratory - Combo with Izzet Cronarc to get more cards back or Help Protect Riku by bouncing him back to your hand.
Artisan of Kozilek - Good body, Annihilator is scary and brings a friend back from the graveyard when cast.
Vengeful Rebirth - A bit expensive but has a great effect when bringing back fatties or win-cons.
I'm sure I've missed a few, but I hope that's enough food for thought. I'd welcome any discussion on the cards =D
Sadly, it doesn't work. Rings copies activated abilities, but Riku has two triggered abilities. You would have to rely on Mirari and Minion Reflector for backup.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Is it still worth while running them? How many cards with Activated Abilities would you want before you'd put them in your deck. I guess you could also copy the Academy Ruins...
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Revised Duals: Yes Those are epic. However they are crazy expensive too. Here is my understanding (misconception?) when it comes to dual lands. They are definitely great for your deck, but no so great that it's worth paying hundreds of dollars for them. For example, I currently run the tenth edition pain lands as budget alternatives to duals. And painlands are worth a lot less for 2 reasons: Painlands deal damage to you, and they can't be fetched easily. The damage in my opinion isn't a huge deal in EDH. The fetching part can be, but I'm not sure if it justifies the 10-15x price difference. There are many cards like the duals which are staples in other formats like Legacy, and thats what drives the price up. As a result, their usefulness in EDH is nowhere near properly represented by their high price. This is just my opinion on those, would love to hear yours!!
Artifact Ramp: Those are all great, however I also have this weird little colour-pir theory when considering card choices. Ramp is green's speciality, and artifact ramp basically makes green's ramp available to all colours. Therefore artifact ramp must be worse than green ramp spells. I know this is very one dimensional. However I believe that artifact ramp is almost strictly worse than land ramp in a green deck that plays in an environment that lacks mass land destruction spells (my playgroups). What do you think.
Mana Reflection: definitely a sick card, I need to find a copy.
Reflecting Pool: Just acquired a few, going straight into my decks.
Sakura-Tribe Elder: I used to run this. However there isn't much recursion in this deck, so often times Sakura is just the same as a rampant growth. So I replaced it with better ramp spells like Cultivate.
Quicksilver Amulet and Elvish Piper: I used to run Elvish Piper in my list, then I replaced it with Sneak Attack. I should test this card out more.
Woodfall Primus: Legit card is Legit. The interaction of persist with Sneak attack and Riku makes the card really tempting. I think I'll put it into the deck as soon as I find one.
Myr Battlesphere: Again, my colour pie thinking kicks in :). Are there better green token producers than battlesphere?
Dominus of Fealty: Legit point is legit. I shall begin testing!
Acquire: I used to run this because this guy in my playgroup relys on Blightsteel as his primary win-con. Then I took it out for Bribery. It's probably not a bad idea to run both though. Will seriously consider it.
Concordant Crossroads: Sick card in green. However do you think Urabrask the Hidden would be better? Because Urabrask can be tutored out easily with green so you can access it easier when you need it. I used to run it in the deck for the sole purpose of Tooth and Nail etwined and copied for Avenger of Zendikar, Primeval Titan, Glen Elendra Archmage, and Urabrask the Hidden to kill any number of opponents and finish the game.
Propaganda: I actually run this in a more defensive deck of mine (zedruu). Its a great card but I'm not sure if its on theme with this deck since its more of a good-stuff inclusion.
Rings of Brighthearth: Even though it doesn't help riku, I still see many Riku lists running it because its so good. However it doesn't seem like I have enough activated abilities in the deck to justify the inclusion of rings.
Deathrender: I actually like this better than Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet for some reason. Will seek for one.
Mirari: You pretty much said it all!
Swiftfoot boots: Definitely worth considering. Just need to find space.
Skullclamp: Not as good in this deck as it is in others. Still a great card though.
Mind's Eye: This triggers my colour pie thing again. I think blue has better options for card draw.
All the Recursion: I WILL slowly add a recurion package into riku, since I believe that any non-graveyard deck can benefit greatly by running some of that.
Solid suggestions are solid. MOst are them are really good and many reminded me of great cards that I completely forgot about. Thanks again!!
More food for thought.
Revised duals:
Their worth really depends on your playgroup and on your deck. From what I've learned, (and anyone feel free to correct me here) what the dual lands really do is speed up your deck and increase consistency. You really nailed it with your comment about fetching.
1) The reason I'm a big fan of the Revised Duals/Shock lands is it allows you to be very aggressive on card selection. *Because* you can fetch a dual it allows you to include cards that have a very strict mana cost and use them much sooner on average. Thus this reduces 'dead' cards in your hand. This holds especially true when dealing with Double or Triple costed cards early in the game.
2) By having alternative sources for colored mana, you are able to run more utility lands. Having the dual lands means your deck is more able to accommodate lands that only produce colorless. This becomes more valuable if you have to run some land destruction. (Strip mine, Ghost Quarter etc.). Conversely the additional redundancy reduces your vulnerability to land destruction.
3) The Dual Lands are a tap-land enabler. Since they count as both basic land types, it decreases the odds that your Hinterland Harbor etc. will come in tapped. This again helps out if you've put in more utility lands.
Personally in my Riku and Ghave Decks, I run all 3 types: Dual lands, Shock lands and Fetch lands. I'm still on the fence about filter lands, but we'll see. Whether or not you include the dual lands I suppose depends on the general power level of your playgroup. My usual playgroup runs some very powerful decks that have an easier time with mana since the deck is Mono colored (Omnath) or Dual colored.
Concordant Crossroads
1) Consistency. Especially if Urabrask somehow ends up in the grave yard. Sure you can always tutor for Urabrask but having this card in hand means you don't have to. You can go straight up for Avenger/Primeval Titan or whatever your favorite combo is AND still have haste. If you manage to copy your entwined Tooth and Nail, you can get a different creature instead of Urabrask. Like Kiki-jiki, or Phyrexian Metamorph and make an even bigger bomb of it.
2) At one Green, it's a pretty cheap Haste enabler. The obvious disadvantage it's it's an Enchant World / Global Effect but I'm pretty sure I'd only drop it as part of my finisher.
3) It's harder to get rid of. Especially if your playgroup has spot removal. Instant speed enchantment destruction is a lot more rare than instant speed creature destruction. *Theoretically* speaking, if you were to Tooth and Nail your Combo with Urabrask, someone could kill our red praetor friend before you declare attackers. Especially if you're going after the whole board, your Glen Elendra Archmage may not be enough on her own.
Crop Rotation / Expedition Map - I forgot about these gems. Their advantage is you can tutor for Any land. Early game you can find your duals, late game you can pull up your utility lands.
Mind's Eye
While I agree your thought process is correct, you need to evaluate the card as a whole. There are two ways to decrease the power level of a card. Cost and Effect. For Mind's Eye, the "Penalty" if you will of using a blue-pie ability is built into it's cost. Being able to use it's draw ability is predicated on an opponent drawing a card. Because of this 'drawback' the activation cost of this card is much lower. :1mana:(dump extra whatever colored mana here) This effect is highly repeatable, and as previously mentioned scales very well with the number of players in the game and doubly so if they draw cards outside of their draw step.
Let's look at two other cards for a quick comparison.
Sphinx of Magosi (Not the best example)
Advantages:
- Big Body that gets bigger when you use his ability to draw cards
- Repeatable, controlled card draw - you can draw as many cards as you have mana for whenever you want.
Disadvantages:
- he costs :symu::symu::symu: to cast
-Cost of Drawing Cards - Because there is no restriction here, it costs :2mana::symu: for one card. The mana cost is 3 times that of Mind's Eye and one of those mana paid must be blue.
-He's a creature and vulnerable to mind control, removal and board wipes.
Consecrated Sphinx
Advantages:
- More Card draw at no mana cost
- Respectable Body with evasion
- Repeatable Card draw
Disadvantages:
-Requires :symu::symu:
-Vulnerable to board-wipes, spot removal, and mind control - Since he is so good he's definitely going to draw some attention to himself.
I can't believe I forgot the Consecrated Sphinx as well. Initial cost aside, in terms of card drawing power, this guy is amazing. He has the same costed pre-condition of the Mind's Eye. (whenever an opponent draws a card) As an added bonus, he's not legendary so you can Riku-copy him.
So I would lean towards the Consecrated Sphinx, but I wouldn't completely discount Mind's Eye.
Dual Lands: Really good arguments. indirect card advantage by reducing dead cards, allowing more utility lands and enabling m12 duals are all very strong points in favour of running those lands. You've changed my mind about them. Its gonna be hard but I'll search for those.
Concordant Crossroads: Ya i guess there is barely any point casting Urabrask unless you're ready to win. And concordant does just that. I'm testing it on cockatrice right now!
Crop Rotation: Cool card is cool. I'd love to play it if I do run more utility lands. However for now in riku I don't think I have enough. However I'm still tempted to try it as a way to thin out my deck in late game, and crazy land fall triggers with avenger of zendikar and rampaging baloths.
Consecrated Sphinx is amazing and I'm including it.
Mind's Eye: Compared to those draw-creatures I can definitely see how Mind's Eye is better at staying on the board. However, realistically, no matter how strong the effect is Mind's Eye is always a target in my group because it has a pretty high initial investment, and the longer they let it live, the more undercosted card-draw I'll get. Another problem here is that Mind's eye doesn't work with riku. I'd like to make a comparison with Tidings IMO a relatively mediocre draw spell in the deck.
In the deck, Tidings draws 4 cards for 5 mana, and 8 cards for 7 if Riku copies it. On the other hand, it costs 9 mana to draw 4 with Mind's Eye and 13 mana to draw 8. I realize that Tidings has :symu::symu: in its cost and:symu::symr: needs to be paid for copying. However I don't think it's a huge drawback if you manafix well enough. (will search for duals, i promise). Another benefit of Mind's Eye is that you don't have to stop at 4 or 8, you can keep going for as long as it remains on the field. Also, often times I notice this trend in many playgroups where there is an "extra attention" period for cards like Mind's Eye. During frist the 2 or so turns after I cast it, my opponents tend to see it as more of a threat and try to remove it if possible. However, after I've drawn a good number of cards from it, my opponents often think that it's too late to remove it since I already drew from it, and move on to other things. Thats when I can go crazy with Mind's Eye and generate epic value from it. What am I trying to say now? I have no, idea I'm just going all over the place. However I am also testing this card on cockatrice and see how it does for me.
Thanks again for the comments!
Returning to Rings of Brighthearth, it won't work with Minion Reflector the same way that Riku doesn't. Since the text's reads: "Whenever..." it's a triggered ability, not an activated one. Still for in a creature heavy deck, I think it could be worth it.