So I have tried a few Jund decks now and I havent really landed on a commander I really care for yet. I tried Karrthus and Kresh and somehow I just cant stick one that works for me. Kresh is sort of cool but we wrath too much to make him work. Karrthus has been decent but I get really sick of how slow he is and how much he freaks people out. I drew like every hate spell from a player the other day just because Karrthus was my commander and my board position wasnt that great throughout the game. However I did win that one so I guess it was deserved. Regardless I want a commander who comes has a bit more synergy and doesnt cost so damn much to drop in. I guess I will give Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper a shot and see how he does.
Thanks for all of the help I have received on this little project. I was sort of afraid I wouldn't get any support on an older legend like this guy but honestly I am over the hype of the new commander release and the legends from it. I am very happy with the progress on this list so far. I think there are adjustments yet to be made on this guy but man I love this list so far.
Ok so for a bit of an update on this list. First of all I am loving a lot of the synergy that this deck has with itself. Moving on though. My above list was at 95 cards before my next update. So lets see if I cant fill in those 5 cards.
+Perilous Forays another sac outlet. I will have to watch how many of these that I have but I feel like each sac outlet has its place. I might have to cut some though but I feel like this is one of the best for this type of deck as it allows me to really ramp fast.
-Culling Dais looking at my list I feel like I have a few too many sac outlets and I feel like this one is a bit clunky in the fact that I can only use it once per turn and I see no results from it until I sacrifice it as well.
-Spawning Pit I like how I can dump a lot of guys through it quickly but still I have problems with this in the fact that spawning tokens isnt that great in this deck as it already does that off the commander. I like the other sac outlets more.
+Hoarding Dragon I like how if I have a sac outlet I can essentially just tutor up an artifact. Skullclamp and Birthing Pod are both extremely useful to have for this deck.
+Life's Finale I sort of feel like I need a few more wraths. This deck needs the option to blow everything up.
Grab a Goblin Bombardment, and an Ashnod's Altar. Trust me your graveborn will thank you for it.
An opponent not destroying my Altar gave me the mana I needed in my Sek'kuar deck to go into an infinite saproling count, and drop a Deathbringer Throctar play.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
But I don't have any infinite loops in this list... I could see both of those worth adding if I did have something to set up that was infinite.
Other additions: Torrent of Souls I can use this to rez off of a wrath spell plus the fact that it gives haste and +2/+0 to all of my creatures seems somewhat strong for my token guys.
EDIT: Wheel of Fortune I just realized I didn't have this up on my list. I love how this works nicely with a lot of recursive guys.
EDIT2: Nihil Spellbomb to hate on those opposing grave recursion decks.
But I don't have any infinite loops in this list... I could see both of those worth adding if I did have something to set up that was infinite.
Other additions: Torrent of Souls I can use this to rez off of a wrath spell plus the fact that it gives haste and +2/+0 to all of my creatures seems somewhat strong for my token guys.
EDIT: Wheel of Fortune I just realized I didn't have this up on my list. I love how this works nicely with a lot of recursive guys.
EDIT2: Nihil Spellbomb to hate on those opposing grave recursion decks.
I didn't have any in mine either for a long time and they both have won me games just from using Sek'kuar's tokens for mana and and extra point of damage.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
I didn't have any in mine either for a long time and they both have won me games just from using Sek'kuar's tokens for mana and and extra point of damage.
I found Sadistic Hypnotist on your list which I had totally forgotten about. He really needs to find a home on my list so in he goes.
What cards do you specifically use to combo off with?
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I found Sadistic Hypnotist on your list which I had totally forgotten about. He really needs to find a home on my list so in he goes.
What cards do you specifically use to combo off with?
Ashnod's Altar, Nim Deathmantle, any creature that makes tokens on leaving/entering play. Yeah it's not much of a combo, and easy to break, but even if it is exiling is the only way to be sure I can't just start it up again a few turns later. Combo goes, make 4 mana, either with tokens sac'd or land, and sacrifice the token generating creature, pay 4 to bring it back with deathmantle, lather rinse repeat infinite mana/creatures.
Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
Hummm.... well I might pass on the infinite combo as I feel comboing out is sort of lame but thanks for the info. I will jack the Mitotic Slime though as that is a lot of sac outlets / token production / wrath protection in one convenient body.
Also that bumps me up to 100 cards. I had to cut Asceticism to get the last one in. From here the adds will be a bit tougher as I need to make cuts for them.
Hummm.... well I might pass on the infinite combo as I feel comboing out is sort of lame but thanks for the info. I will jack the Mitotic Slime though as that is a lot of sac outlets / token production / wrath protection in one convenient body.
Also that bumps me up to 100 cards. I had to cut Asceticism to get the last one in. From here the adds will be a bit tougher as I need to make cuts for them.
Grave and Primeval Titans are always good. If I had Grave Titan I'd be using it instead of Symbiotic Elf in my list lol.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
I have a grave titan but I just havent ever been really sold on it in EDH. What do you think I should cut for him? He does give several sac outlets in one body. At that point though why not just use Avenger of Zendikar though which I also have one sitting about.
My big problem though is I am trying to keep a lot of the interaction sort of low costed so I can try to chain from one thing to another. Do you think I should include one of these guys? I dont think I would do both though just because that is too much fat to add at once.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I would consider cutting Life's Finale which I've never really been a fan of, for Cauldron Dance. The dance is actually very powerful and can result in a significant tempo boost (as well as a cool trick).
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I have a grave titan but I just havent ever been really sold on it in EDH. What do you think I should cut for him? He does give several sac outlets in one body. At that point though why not just use Avenger of Zendikar though which I also have one sitting about.
My big problem though is I am trying to keep a lot of the interaction sort of low costed so I can try to chain from one thing to another. Do you think I should include one of these guys? I dont think I would do both though just because that is too much fat to add at once.
Probably not if you're trying to keep costs as low as possible. Most everything already serves a good purpose.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
I would consider cutting Life's Finale which I've never really been a fan of, for Cauldron Dance. The dance is actually very powerful and can result in a significant tempo boost (as well as a cool trick).
That could be interesting to run. I dont know if I am sold on cutting a wrath for it though. I would be fine with changing which type of wrath I have / cut for it though. Perhaps I could cut Oblivion Stone for it as I sort of want to keep my sac outlets which mainly fall into that area. I will give that a shot. On Life's Finale I will often not even bother pulling creatures but just a wrath for 6 mana in black isnt half bad. I sort of want to keep a few wraths in here as the commander interacts with wrath effects fairly positively.
Probably not if you're trying to keep costs as low as possible. Most everything already serves a good purpose.
Ya I think I will probably leave them off for now. This list is still just a paper copy as I don't have about half of the cards. I have spares of a lot of this stuff just sitting arround though so I will see what I can do for the list this afternoon. I would love to proxy it up and run it tonight so I will see if I can manage that. I can always come back for one of these guys.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I would include the Avenger. Even when I'm trying to keep costs low, I make exceptions for guys that can win the game outright. I would probably cut Brutalizer Exarch for it as they both have similar costs and the Avenger has a much greater impact cost-wise.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I would include the Avenger. Even when I'm trying to keep costs low, I make exceptions for guys that can win the game outright. I would probably cut Brutalizer Exarch for it as they both have similar costs and the Avenger has a much greater impact cost-wise.
Ya you are probably right here. In it goes.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Grab the Reins is good, I think Word of Seizing is better. It doesn't offer built in sacrifice true, but it can't be countered, it stops everything to give you something, and it royally annoys blue players. And it can grab anything. Including that Darksteel Forge the Dagsum player just laid out, in response to his triggering of the disk.
Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
That could be interesting to run. I dont know if I am sold on cutting a wrath for it though. I would be fine with changing which type of wrath I have / cut for it though. Perhaps I could cut Oblivion Stone for it as I sort of want to keep my sac outlets which mainly fall into that area. I will give that a shot. On Life's Finale I will often not even bother pulling creatures but just a wrath for 6 mana in black isnt half bad. I sort of want to keep a few wraths in here as the commander interacts with wrath effects fairly positively.
Okay, I hadn't considered that. Wraths are indeed good for this general. Have you considered Chain Reaction? It's often a red Wrath. Starstorm and Savage Twister are also amazing and serve the purpose of sweeping. You could even use Jokulhaups as a finisher, but that might be going too far.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Grab the Reins is good, I think Word of Seizing is better. It doesn't offer built in sacrifice true, but it can't be countered, it stops everything to give you something, and it royally annoys blue players.
I agree with you on all of your points here but I am probably the only blue player who runs counterspells in my meta. We have a lot of heavy wrath black and white control players instead of blue countering control. This is primarily due to the fact that we sort of frown on people comboing out and thus countering spells has been less important.
If I see an uprise in blue control I will make the swap. For now though I like the fact that I can steal a creature and smash it into another one while spawning a 3/1 for me which makes this a profitable transaction.
Okay, I hadn't considered that. Wraths are indeed good for this general. Have you considered Chain Reaction? It's often a red Wrath. Starstorm and Savage Twister are also amazing and serve the purpose of sweeping. You could even use Jokulhaups as a finisher, but that might be going too far.
Hummm I think out of the red options I would probably be looking at Starstorm, and Inferno. Starstorm might make it in just because it has the cycle option on it. I love the mass destroy all but I feel like I might get a bad rep with the deck if I run that. I like the Natural Affinity currently as it combos with a wrath to hit lands and spawn me creatures but it has other uses beyond blowing out lands. I think I will hold off on the Obliterates for now as I can always step it up to that level later. The downside of the red wraths is that they cost a lot more to do whereas Life's Finale is still only 6 mana which feels solid. I might even consider Decree of Pain before I look over the red wrath options.
Okay, I hadn't considered that. Wraths are indeed good for this general. Have you considered Chain Reaction? It's often a red Wrath. Starstorm and Savage Twister are also amazing and serve the purpose of sweeping. You could even use Jokulhaups as a finisher, but that might be going too far.
I can see Chain Reaction + Everlasting Torment happening in my play group as a board wiping manevour to end the "blightsteel is to good" debate. If it hadn't been ended when someone stole one and killed it's owner with it, enough times he dropped one of his alt win cons from the deck.
Hummm I think out of the red options I would probably be looking at Starstorm, and Inferno. Starstorm might make it in just because it has the cycle option on it. I love the mass destroy all but I feel like I might get a bad rep with the deck if I run that. I like the Natural Affinity currently as it combos with a wrath to hit lands and spawn me creatures but it has other uses beyond blowing out lands. I think I will hold off on the Obliterates for now as I can always step it up to that level later. The downside of the red wraths is that they cost a lot more to do whereas Life's Finale is still only 6 mana which feels solid. I might even consider Decree of Pain before I look over the red wrath options.
Decree of Pain may well be better than Life's Finale. Just for the card advantage it generates. Still it's price can be a problem.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
I can see Chain Reaction + Everlasting Torment happening in my play group as a board wiping manevour to end the "blightsteel is to good" debate. If it hadn't been ended when someone stole one and killed it's owner with it, enough times he dropped one of his alt win cons from the deck.
Decree of Pain may well be better than Life's Finale. Just for the card advantage it generates. Still it's price can be a problem.
I am not too worried about price of cards here. I already own 2 decrees that are currently not being used. I also own a spare survival (yes spare I have 2) as well as at least 60-80% of the cost of most of this list. I am sort of moving my Karrthus deck to be this list and I have no other decks in Black or Red so any staples for those colors are free to move here.
I am starting to think that paying 2 more mana for Decree of Pain is worth it. I think it will go in in the place of Life's Finale.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Fallen Angel is very meh to me. Compared to sac outlets like the Hypnotist and your artifact ones, she's just plain lacklustre. Though I can see situations where a beautiful alpha strike could occur with her, I would seek to replace her with either Grave Titan or Starstorm. Either way, I think you should include both those cards in your list.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Ya I had been sort of contemplating that one. I had sort of wanted to have her in play and drop Avenger of Zendikar into play and just lolz as I kill someone but I agree she is a bit lacking. I think Grave Titan will come in for her. I still want to get starstorm in as well so... I guess back to the list to see if I cant cut it somewhere.
Also sort of an lolz fact. I can order all of the missing cards from this list for a whopping $8.00 I think that sort of means that I have too many staples of EDH just laying about lol.
EDIT: hummm.... I am sort of wondering if Hoarding Dragon should just outright be a Rune-Scarred Demon. The downside is that once again I am bringing up a cost of a creature but the fact that the demon operates without any assistance and it is an outright tutor into hand without requiring me to sac the dragon and it doesn't need to be an artifact.... I think it is stacking up in the way of Hoarding Dragon being a bit too situational whereas Rune-Scarred while costing more is just better in every other way.
I am not too worried about price of cards here. I already own 2 decrees that are currently not being used. I also own a spare survival (yes spare I have 2) as well as at least 60-80% of the cost of most of this list. I am sort of moving my Karrthus deck to be this list and I have no other decks in Black or Red so any staples for those colors are free to move here.
I am starting to think that paying 2 more mana for Decree of Pain is worth it. I think it will go in in the place of Life's Finale.
I meant it's casting cost more than it's list price actually lol. Life's Finale is good and all, but you're basically paying 2 extra mana to pull 3 creatures from a library into a graveyard on top of your Damnation. If you never really use that secondary effect, no reason not to take some card draw instead.
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Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
Man, do I ever have the same problem. I tend to make decks and throw them out the window so a lot of the time my stuff is not in use. For example, I'm hardly playing Edric anymore (as I find him to be a one-trick pony), I've rebuilt my Wort deck, and I've been playing a lot of black and red recently. I have a Decree of Pain, Survival of the Fittest, Foil Sakashima, Natural Order, Entomb, and a bunch of other high cost cards sitting around gathering dust. Sometimes I hate myself.
Anyways, token/sacrifice decks are my favourite to play so that's why I'm taking an interest in your list. Concerning the list, it's already surprisingly tight. I might toss out Barter in Blood for Starstorm. Also, an interesting card I just remembered that might have a place in this deck: Spitebellows. I'm going to have to think about what it can replace though.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I meant it's casting cost more than it's list price actually lol. Life's Finale is good and all, but you're basically paying 2 extra mana to pull 3 creatures from a library into a graveyard on top of your Damnation. If you never really use that secondary effect, no reason not to take some card draw instead.
Yes I agree with you. About the only time I ever used the second part of the ability was on a Mayael the Anima to toss out his Avenger and Akroma. Sadly though he tutored up an Artisan of Kozilek by the end of turn and dropped it in rezzing Akroma into play hitting my face. So even then it didnt work out lol. I see a lot of other recursion in my meta as well so its not a great effect a lot of times.
Man, do I ever have the same problem. I tend to make decks and throw them out the window so a lot of the time my stuff is not in use. For example, I'm hardly playing Edric anymore (as I find him to be a one-trick pony), I've rebuilt my Wort deck, and I've been playing a lot of black and red recently. I have a Decree of Pain, Survival of the Fittest, Foil Sakashima, Natural Order, Entomb, and a bunch of other high cost cards sitting around gathering dust. Sometimes I hate myself.
Anyways, token/sacrifice decks are my favourite to play so that's why I'm taking an interest in your list. Concerning the list, it's already surprisingly tight. I might toss out Barter in Blood for Starstorm. Also, an interesting card I just remembered that might have a place in this deck: Spitebellows. I'm going to have to think about what it can replace though.
Ohhh I think I could cut Flametoung Kavu for that guy. I like how it hits for 6 damage which is enough to kill a decent amount of stuff in EDH. Plus its not like I was going to use the 4/2 body for much of anything. I think I will bring in the Spitebellows for him. Also I was sort of consdering potentially cutting one of the recursion effects for starstorm. I do have like 3 rez spells currently and I could probably axe one of them.
I also agree with you with the problem of scrapping my decks too often lol. Edric really is a one trick pony but I keep him together because I find it so amusing that it works. Even with opponents knowing what it will do he still comes through for me more often than not. I also love the fast recursion style decks like this which is why I went to him.
1 Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper
CREATURES (26)
1 Bloodghast
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Fierce Empath
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Masked Admirers
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Acidic Slime
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Shriekmaw
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Griselbrand
1 Woodfall Primus
ARTIFACT (7)
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sol Ring
1 Skullclamp
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Birthing Pod
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Attrition
1 Mind Slash
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Grave Pact
INSTANT (4)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Beast Within
1 Chaos Warp
1 Chord of Calling
SORCERY (16)
1 Faithless Looting
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Cultivate
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Damnation
1 Harmonize
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Syphon Mind
1 Living Death
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Decree of Pain
1 Insurrection
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Savage Lands
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Badlands
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Twilight Mire
1 Graven Cairns
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Homeward Path
3 Mountain
9 Forest
5 Swamp
1 Gamekeeper
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Harvester of Souls
Thanks for all of the help I have received on this little project. I was sort of afraid I wouldn't get any support on an older legend like this guy but honestly I am over the hype of the new commander release and the legends from it. I am very happy with the progress on this list so far. I think there are adjustments yet to be made on this guy but man I love this list so far.
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[Modern] Allies
+Perilous Forays another sac outlet. I will have to watch how many of these that I have but I feel like each sac outlet has its place. I might have to cut some though but I feel like this is one of the best for this type of deck as it allows me to really ramp fast.
-Culling Dais looking at my list I feel like I have a few too many sac outlets and I feel like this one is a bit clunky in the fact that I can only use it once per turn and I see no results from it until I sacrifice it as well.
-Spawning Pit I like how I can dump a lot of guys through it quickly but still I have problems with this in the fact that spawning tokens isnt that great in this deck as it already does that off the commander. I like the other sac outlets more.
+Hoarding Dragon I like how if I have a sac outlet I can essentially just tutor up an artifact. Skullclamp and Birthing Pod are both extremely useful to have for this deck.
+Life's Finale I sort of feel like I need a few more wraths. This deck needs the option to blow everything up.
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[Modern] Allies
An opponent not destroying my Altar gave me the mana I needed in my Sek'kuar deck to go into an infinite saproling count, and drop a Deathbringer Throctar play.
Other additions:
Torrent of Souls I can use this to rez off of a wrath spell plus the fact that it gives haste and +2/+0 to all of my creatures seems somewhat strong for my token guys.
EDIT: Wheel of Fortune I just realized I didn't have this up on my list. I love how this works nicely with a lot of recursive guys.
EDIT2: Nihil Spellbomb to hate on those opposing grave recursion decks.
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[Modern] Allies
I didn't have any in mine either for a long time and they both have won me games just from using Sek'kuar's tokens for mana and and extra point of damage.
I found Sadistic Hypnotist on your list which I had totally forgotten about. He really needs to find a home on my list so in he goes.
What cards do you specifically use to combo off with?
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[Modern] Allies
Ashnod's Altar, Nim Deathmantle, any creature that makes tokens on leaving/entering play. Yeah it's not much of a combo, and easy to break, but even if it is exiling is the only way to be sure I can't just start it up again a few turns later. Combo goes, make 4 mana, either with tokens sac'd or land, and sacrifice the token generating creature, pay 4 to bring it back with deathmantle, lather rinse repeat infinite mana/creatures.
Aside from that Mimic Vat + Sac outlet + Mitotic Slime is just good wholesome fun.
Also that bumps me up to 100 cards. I had to cut Asceticism to get the last one in. From here the adds will be a bit tougher as I need to make cuts for them.
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[Modern] Allies
Grave and Primeval Titans are always good. If I had Grave Titan I'd be using it instead of Symbiotic Elf in my list lol.
My big problem though is I am trying to keep a lot of the interaction sort of low costed so I can try to chain from one thing to another. Do you think I should include one of these guys? I dont think I would do both though just because that is too much fat to add at once.
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[Modern] Allies
Probably not if you're trying to keep costs as low as possible. Most everything already serves a good purpose.
That could be interesting to run. I dont know if I am sold on cutting a wrath for it though. I would be fine with changing which type of wrath I have / cut for it though. Perhaps I could cut Oblivion Stone for it as I sort of want to keep my sac outlets which mainly fall into that area. I will give that a shot. On Life's Finale I will often not even bother pulling creatures but just a wrath for 6 mana in black isnt half bad. I sort of want to keep a few wraths in here as the commander interacts with wrath effects fairly positively.
Ya I think I will probably leave them off for now. This list is still just a paper copy as I don't have about half of the cards. I have spares of a lot of this stuff just sitting arround though so I will see what I can do for the list this afternoon. I would love to proxy it up and run it tonight so I will see if I can manage that. I can always come back for one of these guys.
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[Modern] Allies
Ya you are probably right here. In it goes.
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[Modern] Allies
Okay, I hadn't considered that. Wraths are indeed good for this general. Have you considered Chain Reaction? It's often a red Wrath. Starstorm and Savage Twister are also amazing and serve the purpose of sweeping. You could even use Jokulhaups as a finisher, but that might be going too far.
I agree with you on all of your points here but I am probably the only blue player who runs counterspells in my meta. We have a lot of heavy wrath black and white control players instead of blue countering control. This is primarily due to the fact that we sort of frown on people comboing out and thus countering spells has been less important.
If I see an uprise in blue control I will make the swap. For now though I like the fact that I can steal a creature and smash it into another one while spawning a 3/1 for me which makes this a profitable transaction.
Hummm I think out of the red options I would probably be looking at Starstorm, and Inferno. Starstorm might make it in just because it has the cycle option on it. I love the mass destroy all but I feel like I might get a bad rep with the deck if I run that. I like the Natural Affinity currently as it combos with a wrath to hit lands and spawn me creatures but it has other uses beyond blowing out lands. I think I will hold off on the Obliterates for now as I can always step it up to that level later. The downside of the red wraths is that they cost a lot more to do whereas Life's Finale is still only 6 mana which feels solid. I might even consider Decree of Pain before I look over the red wrath options.
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[Modern] Allies
I can see Chain Reaction + Everlasting Torment happening in my play group as a board wiping manevour to end the "blightsteel is to good" debate. If it hadn't been ended when someone stole one and killed it's owner with it, enough times he dropped one of his alt win cons from the deck.
Decree of Pain may well be better than Life's Finale. Just for the card advantage it generates. Still it's price can be a problem.
I am not too worried about price of cards here. I already own 2 decrees that are currently not being used. I also own a spare survival (yes spare I have 2) as well as at least 60-80% of the cost of most of this list. I am sort of moving my Karrthus deck to be this list and I have no other decks in Black or Red so any staples for those colors are free to move here.
I am starting to think that paying 2 more mana for Decree of Pain is worth it. I think it will go in in the place of Life's Finale.
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[Modern] Allies
Also sort of an lolz fact. I can order all of the missing cards from this list for a whopping $8.00 I think that sort of means that I have too many staples of EDH just laying about lol.
EDIT: hummm.... I am sort of wondering if Hoarding Dragon should just outright be a Rune-Scarred Demon. The downside is that once again I am bringing up a cost of a creature but the fact that the demon operates without any assistance and it is an outright tutor into hand without requiring me to sac the dragon and it doesn't need to be an artifact.... I think it is stacking up in the way of Hoarding Dragon being a bit too situational whereas Rune-Scarred while costing more is just better in every other way.
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[Modern] Allies
I meant it's casting cost more than it's list price actually lol. Life's Finale is good and all, but you're basically paying 2 extra mana to pull 3 creatures from a library into a graveyard on top of your Damnation. If you never really use that secondary effect, no reason not to take some card draw instead.
Anyways, token/sacrifice decks are my favourite to play so that's why I'm taking an interest in your list. Concerning the list, it's already surprisingly tight. I might toss out Barter in Blood for Starstorm. Also, an interesting card I just remembered that might have a place in this deck: Spitebellows. I'm going to have to think about what it can replace though.
Yes I agree with you. About the only time I ever used the second part of the ability was on a Mayael the Anima to toss out his Avenger and Akroma. Sadly though he tutored up an Artisan of Kozilek by the end of turn and dropped it in rezzing Akroma into play hitting my face. So even then it didnt work out lol. I see a lot of other recursion in my meta as well so its not a great effect a lot of times.
Ohhh I think I could cut Flametoung Kavu for that guy. I like how it hits for 6 damage which is enough to kill a decent amount of stuff in EDH. Plus its not like I was going to use the 4/2 body for much of anything. I think I will bring in the Spitebellows for him. Also I was sort of consdering potentially cutting one of the recursion effects for starstorm. I do have like 3 rez spells currently and I could probably axe one of them.
Any thoughts on the Hoarding Dragon -> Rune-Scarred Demon exchange that I edited a few posts back?
I also agree with you with the problem of scrapping my decks too often lol. Edric really is a one trick pony but I keep him together because I find it so amusing that it works. Even with opponents knowing what it will do he still comes through for me more often than not. I also love the fast recursion style decks like this which is why I went to him.
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[Modern] Allies