I'm a little disappointed that Lion's Eye Diamond hasn't made more of a splash now that it is unbanned. Something MUST be done, and with the critical mass of crazy artifact mana we have available, I'm sure we can do something really stupid:
Step 1: Make mana.
Step 2: Cast Jin-Gitaxias. Repeat steps 1 and 2 as necessary.
Step 3: Take extra turns until you win.
Pros and Cons
(copy-pasted from just about every other deck I have ever constructed)
+ Very Fast
+ Very Consistent
+ Very Powerful
+ Very Fun to Play
- Risky
- Repetitive
- Very Not Fun to Play Against
I know the list could definitely use some optimization, but it already does what I wanted it to do. If anyone feels like springing this on an unsuspecting playgroup, be my guest -- it has a fair game against most everything, because if your opponent does not have some kind of silver bullet (Hinder or Kataki, War's Wage or something), you are always a threat.
Congratulations, you've made a deck even more boring to play with and against than 5c goodstuff!
How could you? D:
BSZ/Stroke for a win con?
Boring to play against? Probably, mission accomplished. But boring to play? I'm not sure what could be more fun to play than windmill slamming Dream Halls, chaining Savor the Moments, and drawing seven cards repeatedly. That's the sort of game state I live for. It might get stale after *sigh* winning so much, but I guess that's something you have to learn to deal with when you are so good at Magic.
I never thought I would see an extra turn style of deck that looks like less fun to play against than Dralnu, Lich Lord...
Interesting deck build... it could work out but I don't see it as being a very fun list...
I sort of feel like bumping up the counterspelling by a few might be pertinant... but I dont know... I guess I would have to see it in action first.
More countermagic is probably a good idea. Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain aren't as good here as they usually are because the early mana is usually spent on artifacts.
If there is one thing blue is good at, it is having fun at the expense of everyone else. Jin-Gitaxias has grown weary of working at Arby's and is out for blood this holiday season.
This is evil and fragile, such a perfect blend: people who lose have no excuse because you were so "easy" to stop all along!
That said, definitely up the countermagic in this. And, strangely, you're not playing Academy Ruins. It can't hurt to play it, especially in a list so full of the shiny goodness.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Oh snap, it just might. On the downside, exiling a Time Warp or whatever makes it impossible to abuse with other regrowth effects, but it seems too good not to include. Thanks for the input!
Quote from DramaTurtle »
This is evil and fragile, such a perfect blend: people who lose have no excuse because you were so "easy" to stop all along!
That said, definitely up the countermagic in this. And, strangely, you're not playing Academy Ruins. It can't hurt to play it, especially in a list so full of the shiny goodness.
Oh yes, it certainly makes it easy to justify anything like that. I have definitely used that excuse in the past. And Academy Ruins is perfect; thanks!
BGJumpin' JaradsGB BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends RWG Marath Sunforger RWG WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
Will you be running more tuck spells, i.e. Hinder or Spin Into Myth to deny them their only possible countermeasure to your Jin-Gitaxias?
I am all for running more counterspells, but I'm telling you - part of the fun is seeing if they can react to your doomsday machine and stop you in time. If they can... then do it all over again.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Commandeer is not good if I say. You have many artifact than blue spell.
Please don't judge Commander as a format by this deck alone. This deck is meant to be the absolute opposite of what is considered "socially acceptable" in most playgroups, so this is not only far from the norm, but is almost the embodiment of everything bad in the format.
That said, it is probably really fun to play the first few times. It just gets old really quickly, like eating too much candy.
EDIT: I just realized you are talking about the card Commandeer and not the format as a whole. I think Commandeer is just fine -- in goldfishing, I can usually cast it for its alternate cost anyway, but on occasion I can just hardcast it as backup, which is okay. Most of the time, any free countermagic will do.
Quote from u-579 »
SO wait....how does this relate to Lion's Eye Diamond?
Also Time Spiral to do it all over again?
Lion's Eye Diamond is just busted artifact ramp that lets you cast Jin-Gitaxias really early and in an unpredictably fast manner. With Jin's draw 7 ability, it is essentially Black Lotus.
On the thought of fast mana, would Mox Opal have a place in here since you don't seem to be lacing in artifacts.
It could possibly replace an Island. If you notice, all of the other artifact ramp provides more than 1 mana, which is crucial for hitting the 10+ mana for Jin without drawing lots of cards beforehand -- this is why I'm not playing Mind Stone, etc.
Please don't judge Commander as a format by this deck alone. This deck is meant to be the absolute opposite of what is considered "socially acceptable" in most playgroups, so this is not only far from the norm, but is almost the embodiment of everything bad in the format.
Think he meant Commandeer ~ Which I think is a safe slot.
I'd agree with the sentiment of adding more countermagic. Time Stop both counters and walks, game dependent. I don't want to insult you by listing a host of good counters for the format. I'm sure you know them.
With that said, I'm against both Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power here. They're expensive on the accel curve and don't net a ton of mana. Generally, I've found my "average" drop of Jin to be a turn slower with these out in place of some other acceleration. Same thing goes for High Tide. My list just never had the land support for them, though. Perhaps you have better luck in that department due to your extra warps.
Lotus Bloom and it's ilk also seem a tad slow here. I think I'd even prefer drops like Mind Stone and Sky Diamond. Then again, they help me since my list has a windfall backup plan. If you're trying to play a less mana aggressive control route, I think you're fine here.
If you are looking for another regrowth effect, I recommend Sage's Knowledge.
Sweet, I didn't know that card existed. I won't add it just yet, but I will file it away in case I find myself needing another of these effects.
Quote from rageinuyasha »
Think he meant Commandeer ~ Which I think is a safe slot.
I'd agree with the sentiment of adding more countermagic. Time Stop both counters and walks, game dependent. I don't want to insult you by listing a host of good counters for the format. I'm sure you know them.
With that said, I'm against both Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power here. They're expensive on the accel curve and don't net a ton of mana. Generally, I've found my "average" drop of Jin to be a turn slower with these out in place of some other acceleration. Same thing goes for High Tide. My list just never had the land support for them, though. Perhaps you have better luck in that department due to your extra warps.
Lotus Bloom and it's ilk also seem a tad slow here. I think I'd even prefer drops like Mind Stone and Sky Diamond. Then again, they help me since my list has a windfall backup plan. If you're trying to play a less mana aggressive control route, I think you're fine here.
Edit:
Also, All the warps in the world but no Reliquary Tower, Mishra's Workshop?
Thanks for the clarification. I will have to ninja edit my previous post because my reading comprehension fails.
More countermagic is probably a good thing; I will have to iron out not only how much of it to play, but also figure out the optimal choices, because not all of them are as obvious as the first includes.
The strength of Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power is not usually their ability to ramp into the first casting of Jin-Gitaxias, but to facilitate the second, third, and fourth. I haven't exactly played this against a group of people yet, but I can imagine that all of the hate will be pointed my direction as soon as I get anywhere close to 10 mana, so even with some countermagic I will probably need to recast Jin a few times until I can trade with all of the removal spells everyone has stocked. This is assuming I don't have the suicide nut draw of Crystal Vein, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mana Vault and some nonsense (which would be freaking sweet, I'm not gonna lie). You have some experience, though... is this not the case? High Tide is typically amazing, though... Dark Ritual is all I'm asking, and it's typically much more.
Lotus Bloom might be bad, idk. Lotus Blossom, Saprazzan Cove, and Sand Silos have been fine, though. I noticed you are playing stuff like Star Compass, Mind Stone, and Sky Diamond -- are these really much better than a land or one of the "storage counter" cards I mentioned? I know we're in mostly uncharted territory here, but I have been using decks like Tooth and Nail, Enduring Ideal, and TurboHaups as references -- these guys just want to cast one big spell to win, and will use cards like Lotus Bloom and storage lands to hit their mana threshold with as little investment as possible. What are your thoughts on this?
I like Reliquary Tower in this deck. The mana you lose from its not being an island is not much compared to the card you will lose from having to discard down to 7 every turn.
Hmm, if you need counters that counter stuff for cheap and with no questons asked, then how about Memory Lapse? It hits any spell and is only 1U. Stoic Rebuttal also seems good with so many artifacts. Thwart is probably bad, but maybe it is worth it just to get Jin out there the first time?
Your 3 enemy join to attack you, because you have unfun commander. How can you save your life point?
This type of deck is a glass cannon. That has been accepted already however these type of decks can be very difficult to stop. I really doubt he needs 8 turns to go off if you look at his list he has tooooooooons of ramp and extra turns. I would be surprised if it took more than 5 turns on average to hit Jin with this type of deck.
That being said if this type of deck is focused by several players then no it wont work. The point of a glass cannon style of deck is to go off really really big and force opponents to play responsive to you to have a chance. It is really to punish decks that have too little interaction with opponents especially good at hurting opposing combo style of decks that just try to go off quickly.
Something as simple as a Hinder as you go to drop Jin the first time could totally wreck this type of deck as it has very little card draw (outside of jin) / tutoring to go get him. Again... glass cannon but that is ok as long as you realize that is how the deck works. It is a powerful type of deck plan.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The idea behind the deck is to just speed everything way up and win before they get a chance to do much. With 35 ramp style of cards in the list its first focus is to ramp into Jin as fast as possible. Once Jin is in play the idea is to take extra turns until an infinite combo is assembled. At that point you just win. This deck should hopefully only give opponents 5-7 turns to stop it before it wins the game. Again unfortunately it is prone to removal and control but that is sort of the idea behind a glass cannon style of deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Sweet, I didn't know that card existed. I won't add it just yet, but I will file it away in case I find myself needing another of these effects.
Thanks for the clarification. I will have to ninja edit my previous post because my reading comprehension fails.
More countermagic is probably a good thing; I will have to iron out not only how much of it to play, but also figure out the optimal choices, because not all of them are as obvious as the first includes.
The strength of Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power is not usually their ability to ramp into the first casting of Jin-Gitaxias, but to facilitate the second, third, and fourth. I haven't exactly played this against a group of people yet, but I can imagine that all of the hate will be pointed my direction as soon as I get anywhere close to 10 mana, so even with some countermagic I will probably need to recast Jin a few times until I can trade with all of the removal spells everyone has stocked. This is assuming I don't have the suicide nut draw of Crystal Vein, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mana Vault and some nonsense (which would be freaking sweet, I'm not gonna lie). You have some experience, though... is this not the case? High Tide is typically amazing, though... Dark Ritual is all I'm asking, and it's typically much more.
Lotus Bloom might be bad, idk. Lotus Blossom, Saprazzan Cove, and Sand Silos have been fine, though. I noticed you are playing stuff like Star Compass, Mind Stone, and Sky Diamond -- are these really much better than a land or one of the "storage counter" cards I mentioned? I know we're in mostly uncharted territory here, but I have been using decks like Tooth and Nail, Enduring Ideal, and TurboHaups as references -- these guys just want to cast one big spell to win, and will use cards like Lotus Bloom and storage lands to hit their mana threshold with as little investment as possible. What are your thoughts on this?
I'm going to be typing in shorthand, mainly because I have a lot to cover and I'm lazy
Caged/Gauntlet - Fair enough. Normally, I only have to cast Jin twice in my local, so I've found them expensive. With that said, if you think you'll have to cast him more then that, I can completely see their application. My worry then is how long you're going without having your token wrath (Evacuation, All is Dust, etc.) Or spot removal Karn Liberated is a house here. He gives you an alt wincon whilst ripping away the things we fear.
Countermagic - My list reflects my thoughts here. The only counter I'm not running I should be in my opinion is Misdirection, simply because I'm a cheap bastard and I don't have a foil one yet.
2 mana accel drops - In short, yes, yes they are. Rational: t1 Land, t2 accel, t3 thran dynamo / ur golems eye into other 2 drop accel / ramp faster and harder. Even if you don't have the four drop in hand, hitting another mana earlier is key for keeping up good countermagic / threat density regardless (also makes your drawn accel easier to cast, etc.). More land slots clog up my hand since I'm aiming to see Jin on t4-5 consistantly anyway. I don't want to draw a hand with even 3 land in most games.
I understand the rational behind Lotus Bloom and its ilk; indeed I used to play dedicated Tooth decks and things of that sort. The problem with them is that they take turns to properly develop. For example Lotus Bloom, when drawn on any turn except my opening 7/8, becomes not only a pseudo dead draw to me since It won't hit play until after Jin might (the first time) but also acts as negative advantage since I'd rather that slot be a piece of raw usable accel (such as a two drop, diamond, et all)
Reliquary Tower has never been winmore for me. I've never found myself being light on Blue, though. I only need two blue mana to properly function (normally), so the colorless isn't terrible. Additionally, it does just let me maintain insane advantage even if my opponents draw removal for Jin and can make it uncounterable via Boseiju, Who Shelters All or something. Also, it's hillarious with Forbid
Tl;dr ~ Time is something we don't have with this deck. Waiting for storage lands and things of that nature sucks. Run raw accel instead.
Edit:
More suggestions!
I was never fond of Temple Bell / MoM. The only card I like in the deck by itself is Kozilek, Butcher of Truth TBH. How about Mindslaver as your lock of choice? Beat the table down with another players deck, use his removal, and also doubles as a pseudo Time Warp. Lets you cut three cards for one, and make room for more counters / ramp
Edit to Edit: Also, Got bored and built a list that uses both of our strategies combined. Should be pretty effective. Feel free to take a look and make any further judgements about how terrible I am at this game ^.^
With a cheap ramp (1 or 2 mana), you can fasting big ramp (4 or 5 mana). More mana, more chance to summon Jin Gitaxias.
Note : I have a nubie question. If I cast Jin Gitaxias, and my enemy have 1 instant with effect like destroy target creature (example : doom blade), can he cast it to destroy Jin Gitaxias? Assume he have mana open.
Yes. You have to pass priority to move to the next step, and he can then complete any actions he wishes during his priority.
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Mana Accel (34)
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Caged Sun
1 Coalition Relic
1 Doubling Cube
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Eye of Ramos
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Lotus Blossom
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sisay's Ring
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ur-Golem's Eye
1 Ventifact Bottle
1 Voltaic Key
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Apprentice Wizard
1 Palladium Myr
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Trinket Mage
1 Copy Artifact
1 Dream Halls
1 High Tide
1 Mana Drain
1 Turnabout
1 Fabricate
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Call to Mind
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Recall
1 Relearn
1 Savor the Moment
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Stretch
1 Time Warp
1 Walk the Aeons
Protection (9)
1 Commandeer
1 Counterspell
1 Delay
1 Foil
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Pact of Negation
Filler (6)
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Capsize
1 Frantic Search
1 Rite of Replication
1 Temple Bell
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Saprazzan Skerry
1 Svyelunite Temple
1 Tolaria West
1 Sand Silos
1 Saprazzan Cove
1 Academy Ruins
27 Island
Game Plan:
Step 1: Make mana.
Step 2: Cast Jin-Gitaxias. Repeat steps 1 and 2 as necessary.
Step 3: Take extra turns until you win.
Pros and Cons
(copy-pasted from just about every other deck I have ever constructed)
+ Very Fast
+ Very Consistent
+ Very Powerful
+ Very Fun to Play
- Risky
- Repetitive
- Very Not Fun to Play Against
I know the list could definitely use some optimization, but it already does what I wanted it to do. If anyone feels like springing this on an unsuspecting playgroup, be my guest -- it has a fair game against most everything, because if your opponent does not have some kind of silver bullet (Hinder or Kataki, War's Wage or something), you are always a threat.
Happy New Year!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
How could you? D:
BSZ/Stroke for a win con?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Interesting deck build... it could work out but I don't see it as being a very fun list...
I sort of feel like bumping up the counterspelling by a few might be pertinant... but I dont know... I guess I would have to see it in action first.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Boring to play against? Probably, mission accomplished. But boring to play? I'm not sure what could be more fun to play than windmill slamming Dream Halls, chaining Savor the Moments, and drawing seven cards repeatedly. That's the sort of game state I live for. It might get stale after *sigh* winning so much, but I guess that's something you have to learn to deal with when you are so good at Magic.
The standard wincon is Mind Over Matter + Temple Bell. Alternatively, you can go infinite with Capsize + Doubling Cube and get there with general damage. ROCK ON
More countermagic is probably a good idea. Brainstorm, Ponder, and Preordain aren't as good here as they usually are because the early mana is usually spent on artifacts.
If there is one thing blue is good at, it is having fun at the expense of everyone else. Jin-Gitaxias has grown weary of working at Arby's and is out for blood this holiday season.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
EDH:
UBGMimeoplasm (Reanimator Control)
WGBURProgenitus (Dream Halls//Good Stuff)
RNorin, the Wary (Metaddited Gaka List)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios!
That said, definitely up the countermagic in this. And, strangely, you're not playing Academy Ruins. It can't hurt to play it, especially in a list so full of the shiny goodness.
Oh snap, it just might. On the downside, exiling a Time Warp or whatever makes it impossible to abuse with other regrowth effects, but it seems too good not to include. Thanks for the input!
Oh yes, it certainly makes it easy to justify anything like that. I have definitely used that excuse in the past. And Academy Ruins is perfect; thanks!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
My Current EDH Decks
WUBRG Lorwyn Block Horde of Notions WUBRG
UG Momir Vig Glimpse Combo UG
UW "Rasputin Dreamcrusher" Control UW
"DAMN HE'S GONNA PULL JIN OUT AGAIN"
"HEY LET'S TAKE HIM OUT FIRS- OH DAMN IT MY HAND IS GONE!"
Their only hope seems to be playing their generals. They still have hope. This simply won't do.
Will you be running more tuck spells, i.e. Hinder or Spin Into Myth to deny them their only possible countermeasure to your Jin-Gitaxias?
BG Jumpin' JaradsGB
BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB
UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU
RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR
WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends
RWG Marath Sunforger RWG
WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
BG Savra, Rocking Attrition (retired) GB
BB">Shauku, Envoy of the End (retired) BB
BU Wrexial, the Tentacled H beast(retired)UB
BB Endrek Sahr, Master Commander (retired )BB
UU [PRIMER] Talrand's Terrible Tempo Terror Teatime (retired) UU
UBW Senator Trio - Three Heads Are Better Than One (retired) UBW
BB MONSTRUAL BLEEDING EREBOS SADISM (retired) BB
I am all for running more counterspells, but I'm telling you - part of the fun is seeing if they can react to your doomsday machine and stop you in time. If they can... then do it all over again.
Also Time Spiral to do it all over again?
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
It's just, you know, fast. Like three mana for nada fast.
So like....wait never mind
On the thought of fast mana, would Mox Opal have a place in here since you don't seem to be lacing in artifacts.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Please don't judge Commander as a format by this deck alone. This deck is meant to be the absolute opposite of what is considered "socially acceptable" in most playgroups, so this is not only far from the norm, but is almost the embodiment of everything bad in the format.
That said, it is probably really fun to play the first few times. It just gets old really quickly, like eating too much candy.
EDIT: I just realized you are talking about the card Commandeer and not the format as a whole. I think Commandeer is just fine -- in goldfishing, I can usually cast it for its alternate cost anyway, but on occasion I can just hardcast it as backup, which is okay. Most of the time, any free countermagic will do.
Lion's Eye Diamond is just busted artifact ramp that lets you cast Jin-Gitaxias really early and in an unpredictably fast manner. With Jin's draw 7 ability, it is essentially Black Lotus.
It could possibly replace an Island. If you notice, all of the other artifact ramp provides more than 1 mana, which is crucial for hitting the 10+ mana for Jin without drawing lots of cards beforehand -- this is why I'm not playing Mind Stone, etc.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Think he meant Commandeer ~ Which I think is a safe slot.
I'd agree with the sentiment of adding more countermagic. Time Stop both counters and walks, game dependent. I don't want to insult you by listing a host of good counters for the format. I'm sure you know them.
With that said, I'm against both Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power here. They're expensive on the accel curve and don't net a ton of mana. Generally, I've found my "average" drop of Jin to be a turn slower with these out in place of some other acceleration. Same thing goes for High Tide. My list just never had the land support for them, though. Perhaps you have better luck in that department due to your extra warps.
Lotus Bloom and it's ilk also seem a tad slow here. I think I'd even prefer drops like Mind Stone and Sky Diamond. Then again, they help me since my list has a windfall backup plan. If you're trying to play a less mana aggressive control route, I think you're fine here.
Edit:
Also, All the warps in the world but no Reliquary Tower, Mishra's Workshop?
Sweet, I didn't know that card existed. I won't add it just yet, but I will file it away in case I find myself needing another of these effects.
Thanks for the clarification. I will have to ninja edit my previous post because my reading comprehension fails.
More countermagic is probably a good thing; I will have to iron out not only how much of it to play, but also figure out the optimal choices, because not all of them are as obvious as the first includes.
The strength of Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power is not usually their ability to ramp into the first casting of Jin-Gitaxias, but to facilitate the second, third, and fourth. I haven't exactly played this against a group of people yet, but I can imagine that all of the hate will be pointed my direction as soon as I get anywhere close to 10 mana, so even with some countermagic I will probably need to recast Jin a few times until I can trade with all of the removal spells everyone has stocked. This is assuming I don't have the suicide nut draw of Crystal Vein, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mana Vault and some nonsense (which would be freaking sweet, I'm not gonna lie). You have some experience, though... is this not the case? High Tide is typically amazing, though... Dark Ritual is all I'm asking, and it's typically much more.
Lotus Bloom might be bad, idk. Lotus Blossom, Saprazzan Cove, and Sand Silos have been fine, though. I noticed you are playing stuff like Star Compass, Mind Stone, and Sky Diamond -- are these really much better than a land or one of the "storage counter" cards I mentioned? I know we're in mostly uncharted territory here, but I have been using decks like Tooth and Nail, Enduring Ideal, and TurboHaups as references -- these guys just want to cast one big spell to win, and will use cards like Lotus Bloom and storage lands to hit their mana threshold with as little investment as possible. What are your thoughts on this?
Reliquary Tower might be good... is it win-more, or is Island better? Mishra's Workshop seems nuts, though. Added.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
Hmm, if you need counters that counter stuff for cheap and with no questons asked, then how about Memory Lapse? It hits any spell and is only 1U. Stoic Rebuttal also seems good with so many artifacts. Thwart is probably bad, but maybe it is worth it just to get Jin out there the first time?
Twincast and Redirect also counter counters for UU.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU
This type of deck is a glass cannon. That has been accepted already however these type of decks can be very difficult to stop. I really doubt he needs 8 turns to go off if you look at his list he has tooooooooons of ramp and extra turns. I would be surprised if it took more than 5 turns on average to hit Jin with this type of deck.
That being said if this type of deck is focused by several players then no it wont work. The point of a glass cannon style of deck is to go off really really big and force opponents to play responsive to you to have a chance. It is really to punish decks that have too little interaction with opponents especially good at hurting opposing combo style of decks that just try to go off quickly.
Something as simple as a Hinder as you go to drop Jin the first time could totally wreck this type of deck as it has very little card draw (outside of jin) / tutoring to go get him. Again... glass cannon but that is ok as long as you realize that is how the deck works. It is a powerful type of deck plan.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Thanks for the Reply ~
I'm going to be typing in shorthand, mainly because I have a lot to cover and I'm lazy
Caged/Gauntlet - Fair enough. Normally, I only have to cast Jin twice in my local, so I've found them expensive. With that said, if you think you'll have to cast him more then that, I can completely see their application. My worry then is how long you're going without having your token wrath (Evacuation, All is Dust, etc.) Or spot removal Karn Liberated is a house here. He gives you an alt wincon whilst ripping away the things we fear.
Countermagic - My list reflects my thoughts here. The only counter I'm not running I should be in my opinion is Misdirection, simply because I'm a cheap bastard and I don't have a foil one yet.
2 mana accel drops - In short, yes, yes they are. Rational: t1 Land, t2 accel, t3 thran dynamo / ur golems eye into other 2 drop accel / ramp faster and harder. Even if you don't have the four drop in hand, hitting another mana earlier is key for keeping up good countermagic / threat density regardless (also makes your drawn accel easier to cast, etc.). More land slots clog up my hand since I'm aiming to see Jin on t4-5 consistantly anyway. I don't want to draw a hand with even 3 land in most games.
I understand the rational behind Lotus Bloom and its ilk; indeed I used to play dedicated Tooth decks and things of that sort. The problem with them is that they take turns to properly develop. For example Lotus Bloom, when drawn on any turn except my opening 7/8, becomes not only a pseudo dead draw to me since It won't hit play until after Jin might (the first time) but also acts as negative advantage since I'd rather that slot be a piece of raw usable accel (such as a two drop, diamond, et all)
Reliquary Tower has never been winmore for me. I've never found myself being light on Blue, though. I only need two blue mana to properly function (normally), so the colorless isn't terrible. Additionally, it does just let me maintain insane advantage even if my opponents draw removal for Jin and can make it uncounterable via Boseiju, Who Shelters All or something. Also, it's hillarious with Forbid
Tl;dr ~ Time is something we don't have with this deck. Waiting for storage lands and things of that nature sucks. Run raw accel instead.
Edit:
More suggestions!
I was never fond of Temple Bell / MoM. The only card I like in the deck by itself is Kozilek, Butcher of Truth TBH. How about Mindslaver as your lock of choice? Beat the table down with another players deck, use his removal, and also doubles as a pseudo Time Warp. Lets you cut three cards for one, and make room for more counters / ramp
Edit to Edit: Also, Got bored and built a list that uses both of our strategies combined. Should be pretty effective. Feel free to take a look and make any further judgements about how terrible I am at this game ^.^
Yes. You have to pass priority to move to the next step, and he can then complete any actions he wishes during his priority.
Looking forward to the end of the holiday hiatus at CommanderCast!
This is one of the few decks I'd want Unwinding Clock in.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary