MTG Salvation

Here's my current list:



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Here are some photos of the deck:


Here's a short list of the "on the bubble" cards that are basically moving in and out of the list as it's playtested:


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Thanks for looking, and comments are always welcome!

Krosan Grip shouldn't be on the bubble unless your playgroup just lacks combo players. It shuts down artifact/enchantment based combos, many of which can't be broken up by almost any other card.

Luckily, we do have a lot of other green players around, and they all (should) be using Grip to combat the Zur list that's roaming in our group.

What would you suggest cutting for it?

Hey wtwlf! I went over your list pretty thoroughly and keeping with the theme here's my thoughts:

+Sensei's Divining Top: It's boring and sometimes time consuming but with the long games and abundance of shuffle effects it provides too much value not to run it.
+Knight of the Reliquary: You'll probably only get to use him 2-4 times before you run out of stuff to sac but he fetches some really fantastic utility lands like Contested Cliffs and he allows your creature tutors to fetch him up and then use him to fetch utility lands.
+Battle Mastery: Double strike on Uril is huge and this alone lets him swing for a monstrous 14 damage. Combined with other auras, especially ones granting evasion, this allows for 1 hit kills.
+Sylvan Scrying: Nothing flashy but fetches up Contested Cliffs or other utility land and can fix your mana early. Tutors are very strong and I like this one a little more than Crop Rotation but they are both very good.
+Soul's Majesty: This is normally risky since they can just kill your guy in response but with troll shroud and a huge general this draws a bunch of cards with consistency.
+Greater Gargadon: This I'm not so sure about but he protects your general and even for this format has a sizable body.
+Mosswort Bridge: Pretty easy to set up and free spells from your land are pretty nice.
+Skarrg, the Rage Pits: Trample is so important to prevent chump blocking that I think this is even more important than Sunhome.
+Wasteland: I'd run at least 2 stripmines, there are certain utility lands like Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Cabal Coffers, etc. that must be smashed.
Naya Panorama: Trying to keep your fixing the same because of suggested cuts.
-Oblivion Ring: I've always been disappointed with this card. There are so many sweepers it will eventually get hit by one and then some guy gets back a Debtor's Knell on an open board giving them a huge advantage.
-Umbra Mystic: I ran her for awhile and found I'd rather just have a totem aura enchantment instead.
-Twilight Shepherd: Since you rarely get anything back other than a random fetchland the first time you cast her and you don't have control over the second trigger I ended up cutting her from my decks. Just a card that didn't perform like it seems it would on paper.
-Dawnbreak Coronet: Seems like a perfect fit for the deck but has a number of things going against it, it lacks evasion, requires another aura to do anything and provides some pretty useless abilities like first strike.
-Retether: I didn't find this to be particularly usefull. Rather just run another aura since it would be easier to tutor up.
-Kor Haven: Since you should be the aggro deck most of the time Maze of Ith should be sufficient, especially if you add more land tutors.
-Eiganjo/Okino/Shinka: The effects are so minor that I think you should replace these with stronger utility lands, more fixing or just plain basic lands to get around annoying Blood Moon effects.

I suggested more adds than cuts to give you options but also because it is usually best to playtest the deck with your group and decide what works and what doesn't for your specific group.

Thanks a lot for the advice Donald! After I playtest this bad boy, I'm sure that a lot of these changes will come to fruition.

Another Aura is probably better than Retether in a lot of cases. I've wanted to get Battle Mastery in anyways. That's one change I'll look into for sure, thanks.

I never considered the Kor Haven to be overkill, but you're likely right again. I love the suggestion of Skarrg, the Rage Pits... and this will likely be another swap.

I'm set on my 9 basics. My whole playgroup is nonbasic crazy, so I don't think I'll be running into too much Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Ruination shenanigans.

Naya Panorama seems... bad. Is this not the case?

I also really like the suggestion of Sylvan Scrying. If I cut Kor Haven, I'll want another land tutor and this will do nicely.

If Daybreak Coronet sits idle for lack of targets, I'll be sure to cut it for something. The vigilance seemed pretty good though, IDK.

Thanks a whole lot for the suggestions! I will very likely be making at least a few of these. Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

Hey wtwlf,

Welcome to EDH!

I like this deck a lot. It's always good to see someone take a popular general in a new direction.

I agreed with Donald about SDT and Wasteland for sure. I've also found Oblivion Ring to be less good in this format than in most others.

I wonder how All Sun's Dawn would be in this deck.

Cheers,
rant

Great list! I know I already gave some suggestions, but looking over the new list I had a few additional comments.

I agree about Krosan Grip, that card is so good in EDH, even if other players have it as well.

Of the "bubble list", I'd say that Greater Good is the most awesome. It's an enchantment so it fits the theme, draws a ton of cards so you don't run out of steam, and IMHO all decks that somewhat rely on general damage should have a sacrifice outlet to prevent tuck effects.

It's also a different type of card-drawing than Verduran Enchantress because if you get hit by Myojin of Night's Reach or an early Mind Twist, you can refill you hand quickly without the need for additional cards. (Well, other than your general...)

Lastly, you mentioned that a) you don't want to run Armageddon effects and b) your playgroup was "non-basic heavy" and you are unlikely to see things like Back To Basics, I would personally run Kodama's Reach/Cultivate and other land ramp over Coalition Relic or other artifact ramp that often times gets incidentally blown up by Akroma's Vengeance or whatever.

Edit: Also I noticed, unless you are trying to Strip Mine lock somebody, then Life From the Loam serves the same purpose as Crucible of Worlds but is 10x more resilient because it dredges, whereas people kill Crucible and you only have Witness to get it back.

@ rantipole:

Ya, I should get a Top in here. Vesuva kinda works like a 2nd Strip Mine for me, but I agree that Wasteland would be great. I don't want too many colorless mana producers though, ya know?

I don't know about ASD, there's a really small amount of red cards in this list, so I think it'd be worse than Restock most of the time (which I could use to grab Replenish and Academy Rector at the same time, etc).

Surprised to hear the hate for Oblivion Ring. I'll keep a close watch on it, and see how it performs.

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edit: Thanks for the suggestions Darklich!

I will update my "on the bubble" cards to reflect these suggestions, and I will absolutely keep them all in mind when I start playing more regularly!

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Right now, the 5 cards I want to get in the most are:

Sylvan Scrying
Krosan Grip
Greater Good
Battle Mastery
and
Skarrg, the Rage Pits

And from what everybody is suggesting, the best cuts look like:

Umbra Mystic
Retether
and
Kor Haven (?)
plus
Daybreak Coronet (?) and/or Coalition Relic (!)
Oblivion Ring (!) and/or Twilight Shepherd (!)

How do those changes look? What else could get cut? Some of these cuts look really rough.

Actually, I would keep the artifact ramp you have now, and just add in some land ramp spells. EDH games (unless your meta is highly tuned combo-oriented Spike-fest) tend to last awhile and having access to a lot of mana is the lifeblood of most decks. To access some form of ramp consistently I would add in 8-12 pieces of land/artifact/creature ramp (in that order). Not sure what to cut though. =(

Also, Crop Rotation looks a lot more useful to me than Sylvan Scrying. Although CR is technically card disadvantage, the fact it's instant speed/surprise factor makes up for it. Being able to tutor up a Maze of Ith when a creature is attacking you is great. Or EOT Strip Mine, or tutoring up Rage Pits giving Uril trample after blockers are declared is precious. =D

Edit: Here's my suggestions for cuts:
1. Unquestioned Authority - Trample is serving almost the same purpose here, and with a land (Rage Pits) also giving trample you might have enough of this effect. It's still decent when you opponent has a swarm of weenies, so your call.

2. Pollenbright Wings - Most edict effects are < 6 mana, making this too expensive an option for most of them, plus you need trample to guarantee damage to the opponent anyway. If you want a consistent token producer, consider something like Kher Keep, which is harder to get rid of and doesn't draw much hate.

3. Abundance - Good with Sylvan Library, but average otherwise. Greater Good is much better here I think.

Quote from wtwlf123

How do those changes look? What else could get cut? Some of these cuts look really rough.

Just wait until you've been playing the deck awhile, it just gets harder and harder but that's part of the fun of playtesting. Already given feedback on adds/cuts but I run both Crop Rotation and Sylvan Scrying in my list and the instant speed of Crop Rotation rarely makes up for the card disadvantage. I can recommend running both however because of how strong tutors are.

What I liked about the Scrying is that I can use it to net me extra mana, so it functions as securing land drops and reaching 5 mana ASAP a lot better than Rotation does. The surprise factor is nice, though... maybe I'll test both.

Ya, I didn't really want to cut Coalition Relic either... it's been pretty good in testing so far. It's good ramp + fixing and it's a good thing to have left behind after a Cataclysm.

The cuts are REALLY tough.

What do you think about losing Daybreak Coronet and/or Oblivion Ring? So I can keep Coalition Relic and Twilight Shepherd?

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edit: You're right Donald. I'll test the list more, find out what the weak/unnecessary links are, and make my changes from there. Thanks again for all the help & advice!

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There are three changes I'm comfortable enough to make now:

Umbra Mystic -----> Sylvan Scrying
Retether -----> Battle Mastery
Kor Haven -----> Skarrg, the Rage Pits

I would only run Oblivion Ring if you're going the Armageddon route (Players with no lands can't get rid of it) or facing mostly black opponents. (Black has a weakness against enchantments) Otherwise, it's easy to get rid of, and the temporary advantage usually doesn't make up for the card loss. (And it can also backfire if someone sweeps with an Akroma's Vengeance)

I would also run Oblivion Ring and/or Journey to Nowhere if you were going for an enchantment-sacrifice theme. (Running cards like Auratog to sacrifice Rancor/Spirit Loop over and over), then you could get rid of a permanent...permanently.

Scourge of the Nobilis is leagues better then Daybreak Coronet. It's less conditional and can randomly just win with enough mana. (And of course both have lifelink)

Now that I think about it, I'd probably run Reap and Sow over both Scrying and Crop Rotation.

And I agree with Donald, have fun and test and see how it goes! (And let us know...!)

Very good, thanks!

I will see how Oblivion Ring does in action. If it's as you say, I'll cut it for sure.

Scourge > Coronet, eh? Maybe so. I cut Scourge from the list, but it may be better than the Coronet after all. I'll see how often I get stuck with the Coronet and no other Auras on Uril.

Reap and Sow is another good option. I'll see how Scrying plays, and go from there!

Thanks again guys!

Oblivion Ring -----> Krosan Grip may be another change I look into in the future, pending playtesting.

Unquestioned Authority and Abundance have been WAY too good thus far in testing for me to put them on the block yet. And Pollenbright Wings has also been very solid. Trample is not the same as protection from creatures. Being completely unblockable saves you from deathtouch and wither effects, which prove pretty useful around here. And, the UA cantrips on its own. And Abundance has been just silly good. Draw nothing but gas with on every turn, including each draw from the enchantress triggers has been bonkers.

My experiences with Oblivion Ring have been really mixed. I still run it in some decks, but I'm not crazy about it. I'd much rather have Krosan Grip.

Reap and Sow has been nothing but awesome in my Momir Vig and Savra lists. I love blowing up an opponent's Volrath's Stronghold and finding my own. I think you'll like it a lot.

Yeah, Restock is probably better in this list than All Sun's Dawn.

Have you tested Nomad Mythmaker?

Cheers,
rant

Ya, I'll keep an eye on Oblivion Ring. If it underperforms, I'll cut it for Krosan Grip for sure. The performance of Oblivion Ring may be different for me though, as drawing a card or two off of my Enchantresses may tip the scales back into playability vs. a non-enchantment removal spell.

Reap and Sow looks good. I like the 1G on Sylvan Scrying though, as it can smooth out my first few turns; something that's proven very important so far.

I like Restock, but it doesn't seem as good as Naya Charm/Regrowth/Replenish and I also have Three Dreams which will always be a 3-for-1 for 5 mana.

I've considered the Nomad, but if I was going to use a card like that, I think I like Dowsing Shaman a little more (which also didn't make the list).

Thanks for the advice and helping me brainstorm!

I just wanted to add to one of the earlier comments where someone said that you need more strip mine type effects and suggested Wasteland. If you dont have wasteland I have seen very very minimal issues substituting Tectonic Edge for wasteland. You shouldn't need to worry about needing to hit a nonbasic land before your opponent hits 4 lands in play.

That small substitution will save you a bit of $$ if you dont already own a wasteland.

I have a Wasteland I could use. What land would you take out for it? How would you compare it to Dust Bowl in this format?

Thanks for commenting! Always glad to have as much input as possible.

Dust Bowl is just fine. I dont like how it costs essentially 4 mana to activate it. On top of that if you have it out everyone will look to you to destroy problematic lands. Personally I probably wouldnt run much more than 2 lands that destroy other lands. Beyond that in a 3 colored deck you might start having some problems with getting the right colored mana.

I've been able to use Vesuva as my 2nd LD land, and it seems to be okay. Especially with Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying and Crucible of Worlds.

How do you rate it in comparison to Hall of the Bandit Lord? I've found the ETBT clause and the 3 life to be problematic if it's drawn early in the game. But later on (and post-Wrath), Hall is a house... so I was going to leave it alone.

If I find myself getting wrecked by busted nonbasics, I'll toss in the Wasteland. But for right now, Strip Mine, Vesuva (against Legendary Lands) and the pair of tutors seem to suffice.

Scourge of the Nobilis vs Daybreak Coronet?

Daybreak has been a dead draw on a few occasions where I didn't have another aura on Uril already, and both provide a good P/T boost and provide lifelink. Additionally, Scourge is a great sink for extra mana if I get flooded. I was thinking about cutting the Coronet for the Scourge... is this a terrible idea?

I'd go with Gaea's Embrace since it provides not only evasion but protection as many of the commonly run sweepers allow regen. Lifelink is much less useful than it would seem, the deck doesn't run enough red to really take advantage of firebreathing and scourge also provides no evasion. Alternatively you could go with another totem aura like Snake Umbra or a recurring aura like Moldervine Cloak.

Choose 1:

Daybreak Coronet <----- Currently In

• Eldrazi Conscription
  
• Gaea's Embrace
  
• Snake Umbra
  
• Hyena Umbra
  
• Moldervine Cloak
  
• Spirit Loop
  
• Scourge of the Nobilis

I'm leaning towards replacing the Coronet with Gaea's Embrace or Scourge of the Nobilis. Which one would you use?

Probably Gaea's Embrace because trample+regeneration is a powerful combo. Snake Umbra is pretty great, too.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from rantipole

Probably Gaea's Embrace because trample+regeneration is a powerful combo. Snake Umbra is pretty great, too.

Cheers,
rant

Ya, I just made this change. Had a few games where the Coronet was the only Aura I had. Bad times.

Gaea's Embrace is more consistent, trample is more valuable, and there's a lot of cases where the regeneration is important.

I'll play it with the Embrace for a while, and see how much better it plays.

Thanks for the input!

OK, you guys were right about the Oblivion Ring. I'm swapping it out for a Krosan Grip.