That's right guys. It's the best U/B general I could find, and I really like the card. It's just cool (even if the effect is meh). There are several ways to win with this deck.
Beatdown with Blightsteel Colossus / Hatchery / Titan Forge
Infinite turns via Magistrate's Scepter
Hex Parasite + Decree of Silence lockdown
Proliferate into win with Darksteel Reactor or poison counters on opponent
Churn out artifacts and kill with Tezzeret 1.0/2.0 (perhaps in conjunction with Rings)
Use Rings + Basalt to go infinite with Bloodrite Invoker / Exsanguinate
Proliferate into killing one player with Shrine of Burning Rage
These 7 win-cons all play pretty well together, since proliferate is involved in most of them.
Two of your wincons involve the Rings + Basalt to go infinite but you don't have Oona, Queen of the Fae? Hell, she could be your general.
As long as you are abusing rings + basalt, Stroke of Genius kills people too. Cast when someone declares an attack on you. They lose before damage resolves.
That sounds wicked!
Concerning the general, I simply don't bring it out unless I have at least a few Islands in play, and even then him coming out is rare. It's nice to put a damper on cards that continue to grow, or on cards that do things based on the number of +1/+1 counters on them (since a -1/-1 nullifies a +1/+1).
Two of your wincons involve the Rings + Basalt to go infinite but you don't have Oona, Queen of the Fae? Hell, she could be your general.
As long as you are abusing rings + basalt, Stroke of Genius kills people too. Cast when someone declares an attack on you. They lose before damage resolves.
I considered Oona, but I see her a lot and I like using less common generals, even if they are strictly less powerful; especially given the underdog effect.
Herald of Leshrac, baby! I suggest it to everyone running a proliferate theme and black.
Wow, I hadn't even thought about cumulative upkeep cards as proliferate targets. I'm not sure if Herald will make it into this list as it stands, since it's pretty packed; but any other decks with proliferate as a subtheme, he's definitely up for consideration. Thanks for the tip!
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Quote from Darth Nihilius »
El Presidente is like, I'm at 2 life. I take that goddamn shockland like a man!
PM sent, and yeah Lux Cannon is crazy in here. Went nuts with Voltaic Key + Contagion Engine earlier today, all the while building up with Chalice into Exsanguinate for 26, took out 2 guys and left the other at 10, while putting me to 91. This deck is so much fun (for the one playing it :D).
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Quote from Darth Nihilius »
El Presidente is like, I'm at 2 life. I take that goddamn shockland like a man!
I recently finished up my own Skeleton Ship proliferate deck! Though I'm not running any infect..
A couple suggestions here should help smooth out my deck's wrinkles.
The nice thing about mana sources with counters on them is that once you have more than 3 or 4 out with a counter on them, any time you proliferate you end up with a net gain in mana.
Also Unwinding Clock belongs in every deck that runs as many tappable artifacts as this one does. Between 3 artifact lands and a bunch of mana rocks, you should be able to power counters onto the Titan Forge and Magistrate's Scepter all the faster. If you do find a spot, consider swapping Surge Node or Energy Chamber for a Power Conduit. Power Conduit's nice secondary advantage is that like Hex Parasite it can be used to drain unhelpful counters off of things like Decree of Silence or -1/-1 counters on your own creatures.
The other thing I see is that you seem a little light in card draw. Tezz's Gambit, Urza's Blueprints, a Honden, and Phyrexian Arena only go so far. Sphinx of Magosi and Surrakar Spellblade are both cards that can be both proliferate targets and have the potential to draw you cards, and the Sphinx is a big enough body to do serious damage once it's been pumped a few times and proliferated a few more.
I'll also agree with most of Wildfire393's list. Myojin of Night's Reach and Myojin of Seeing Winds are both very strong in this deck. Black Market, City of Shadows and to a lesser extent Altar of Shadows can replace some of your Mana Rocks and provide even more mana. I had a City of Shadows in my Grixis flavored version of this deck up to 14 mana per tap, and never actually sac'd a creature to it in the first place (Core Tapper and Power Conduit were used to jump start the tokens).
Edit: Oh, and one other piece of amazing tech for a deck like this are Riptide Replicator, which can be pumping out huge tokens very quickly.
First, thanks for all the suggestions, I'm really liking some of these ideas!
Unwinding Clocks would go in, if only for the extra proliferate on opponent's turns. My worry is that I'll become too much of a target (a serious problem with most of the people I play with on Cockatrice; as soon as you start to look powerful, people gun for you). But what the hell, I'll go for it; go big or go home. And now that I think about it, free untaps on my Monoliths/Mana Vault don't sound half-bad.
The Myojins are expensive (mana-wise), but that's really my only concern; I'll give them a shot too.
Changes:
-1 Hinder (I don't really care to tuck peoples' generals, I'll just kill the players behind the generals)
+1 Power Conduit (Can kinda-sorta lock with Decree of Silence, and proliferate means I can knock a counter off my huge Chalice (or hell, Vivid Marsh), and pop one onto something more relevant).
-1 Dimir Signet
+1 Myojin of Night's Reach
-1 Core Prowler
+1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
-1 Thrummingbird (I always hate when people are like "Sorry for attacking you but I need the triggers!", so I'm not gonna be that DB)
+1 Decree of Pain (felt like more sweep was necessary)
-1 Throne of Geth (no recursion here except for Volrath's Stronghold, so this thing isn't too useful)
+1 Pact of Negation ( )
-1 Snow-Covered Swamp
+1 Thawing Glaciers (to combat land screw)
-1 Tumble Magnet (seems like it'd just be meh unless we're down to 1v1)
+1 Hive Mind (alt. win-con wooo! Plus, this card is just fun)
-1 Strip Mind, -1 Wasteland (I'm not that DB)
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, +1 Cabal Coffers (but I am that DB :D)
As far as the mana costs go, you shouldn't be having too many issues. You've got plenty of mana rocks (which can produce even more mana with Unwinding Clock). If you do run into issues, though, Gemstone Array is a mana fixer, proliferate target, and another storage battery for mana all in one. The storage lands I already mentioned are also a possibility.
Kinda hard to assemble, due to crappy recursion and whatnot, but horribly powerful once it sticks.
On the Myojin, pick one. They're really pricey, mana-wise, and tend to sit in hand it seems. Maybe play a few games with each one, see which works better for you?
And my last suggestion.. Djinn of Wishes.
With all that mana you'll likely just have sitting around, why not throw out some more cards for almost free?
Good thread. I have a Skeleton Ship deck at home but I'm willing to bet it's worse than this.
Why are you reposting your deck and not editing the initial post? It's going to make it hard to keep up with your changes.
Also, have you considered Rhystic Study for card draw?
I notice you also removed Triskelion which I support. I don't think I EVER drew that guy when I wanted to play him.
You're right, it's just a bad habit I've picked up from posting in threads I didn't start, where it would take more digging to my original list. OP has been updated to the most recent version. I haven't thought about Study, but it's a nice idea. I was also considering Mind's Eye, which I like more since I control my extra draw, not my opponent. As for Triskelion: I like the idea of him (turn proliferate directly into damage, what's not to like?) but I played a few games, and at no point during any of them would I have been happy to see him.
As far as the mana costs go, you shouldn't be having too many issues. You've got plenty of mana rocks (which can produce even more mana with Unwinding Clock). If you do run into issues, though, Gemstone Array is a mana fixer, proliferate target, and another storage battery for mana all in one. The storage lands I already mentioned are also a possibility.
Oh yeah, I forgot to include the storage lands lol. I don't want to include many more mana rocks, since for some reason people on Cockatrice see the guy with a dozen mana stones as a much bigger threat than the guy with 30 lands.
Kinda hard to assemble, due to crappy recursion and whatnot, but horribly powerful once it sticks.
On the Myojin, pick one. They're really pricey, mana-wise, and tend to sit in hand it seems. Maybe play a few games with each one, see which works better for you?
And my last suggestion.. Djinn of Wishes.
With all that mana you'll likely just have sitting around, why not throw out some more cards for almost free?
Yeah, I'm definitely not saying it's a useless artifact. It's great, and can be put to excellent use even with just a Myr Turbine out. I just happen to not have room for the cards that make it truly good. Seems like 100 cards just doesn't go as far as it used to.
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Quote from Darth Nihilius »
El Presidente is like, I'm at 2 life. I take that goddamn shockland like a man!
These 7 win-cons all play pretty well together, since proliferate is involved in most of them.
1x Skeleton Ship
Proliferate:
1x Tezzeret's Gambit
1x Contagion Clasp
1x Contagion Engine
1x Fuel for the Cause
1x Inexorable Tide
1x Spread the Sickness
1x Viral Drake
Almost Proliferate:
1x Coretapper
1x Energy Chamber
1x Surge Node
1x Vedalken Infuser
1x Power Conduit
1x Unwinding Clocks
Win Cons:
1x Exsanguinate
1x Hex Parasite
1x Decree of Silence
1x Shrine of Burning Rage
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Darksteel Reactor
1x Magistrate's Scepter
1x Hive Mind
Good Stuff:
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Shrine of Loyal Legions
1x Honden of Night's Reach
1x Voltaic Key
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Bribery
Card Draw:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Urza's Blueprints
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Myojin of Seeing Winds
1x Myojin of Night's Reach
1x Eternity Vessel
1x Lux Cannon
1x Orochi Hatchery
1x Titan Forge
Tutors:
1x Fabricate
1x Expedition Map
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Grim Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
Removal:
1x Damnation
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Decree of Pain
Counters:
1x Mana Drain
1x Perplex
Mana Rocks:
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Grim Monolith
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Sol Ring
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Talisman of Dominance
Lands:
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Mishra's Workshop
1x Vesuva
1x Underground Sea
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Marsh Flats
1x Dreadship Reef
1x Watery Grave
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Rupture Spire
1x Academy Ruins
1x Tolaria West
1x Halimar Depths
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Tectonic Edge
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Island
2x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Swamp
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Creek
1x Verdant Catacombs
I'm hoping that the mana rocks will make up for the fact that I have 2 (potentially 3) lands that don't produce mana.
Any suggestions or comments you guys have would be much appreciated.
[MANA]UB[/MANA] Draw, Go BU
GULorthodonUG
RBGNext Level JundGBR
I collect Mirror of Fate (18) and Darksteel Relic (5)!
Shouldn't you make sure to have a few more Islands in there, given the commanders text?
You could replace a mana rock with Wayfarer's Bauble, and/or Armillary Sphere to help with that.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
As long as you are abusing rings + basalt, Stroke of Genius kills people too. Cast when someone declares an attack on you. They lose before damage resolves.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Standard:
UW UW Pike
Mtgo Pauper:
U Tempo
Mtgo Block:
RW Aggro
I'm 14, shout-outs to all other young magic players out there!
Quotes:
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
That sounds wicked!
Concerning the general, I simply don't bring it out unless I have at least a few Islands in play, and even then him coming out is rare. It's nice to put a damper on cards that continue to grow, or on cards that do things based on the number of +1/+1 counters on them (since a -1/-1 nullifies a +1/+1).
I considered Oona, but I see her a lot and I like using less common generals, even if they are strictly less powerful; especially given the underdog effect.
I facepalmed for a moment, since I was sure I had included it; sure enough, it's in there. It's listed under Mana Rocks instead of Prolif targets.
Wow, I hadn't even thought about cumulative upkeep cards as proliferate targets. I'm not sure if Herald will make it into this list as it stands, since it's pretty packed; but any other decks with proliferate as a subtheme, he's definitely up for consideration. Thanks for the tip!
[MANA]UB[/MANA] Draw, Go BU
GULorthodonUG
RBGNext Level JundGBR
I collect Mirror of Fate (18) and Darksteel Relic (5)!
About the custom commander card...... check your pm, I've got somethin for ya
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
[MANA]UB[/MANA] Draw, Go BU
GULorthodonUG
RBGNext Level JundGBR
I collect Mirror of Fate (18) and Darksteel Relic (5)!
Chimeric Mass, Myojin of Night's Reach, and Myojin of Seeing Winds seem pretty powerful too.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
A couple suggestions here should help smooth out my deck's wrinkles.
EDH:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
WDarien, King of KjeldorW
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UWRasputin DreamweaverWU
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
UBRMishra, Artificer ProdigyRBU
RWURuhan of the FomoriUWR
The nice thing about mana sources with counters on them is that once you have more than 3 or 4 out with a counter on them, any time you proliferate you end up with a net gain in mana.
Also Unwinding Clock belongs in every deck that runs as many tappable artifacts as this one does. Between 3 artifact lands and a bunch of mana rocks, you should be able to power counters onto the Titan Forge and Magistrate's Scepter all the faster. If you do find a spot, consider swapping Surge Node or Energy Chamber for a Power Conduit. Power Conduit's nice secondary advantage is that like Hex Parasite it can be used to drain unhelpful counters off of things like Decree of Silence or -1/-1 counters on your own creatures.
The other thing I see is that you seem a little light in card draw. Tezz's Gambit, Urza's Blueprints, a Honden, and Phyrexian Arena only go so far. Sphinx of Magosi and Surrakar Spellblade are both cards that can be both proliferate targets and have the potential to draw you cards, and the Sphinx is a big enough body to do serious damage once it's been pumped a few times and proliferated a few more.
I'll also agree with most of Wildfire393's list. Myojin of Night's Reach and Myojin of Seeing Winds are both very strong in this deck. Black Market, City of Shadows and to a lesser extent Altar of Shadows can replace some of your Mana Rocks and provide even more mana. I had a City of Shadows in my Grixis flavored version of this deck up to 14 mana per tap, and never actually sac'd a creature to it in the first place (Core Tapper and Power Conduit were used to jump start the tokens).
Edit: Oh, and one other piece of amazing tech for a deck like this are Riptide Replicator, which can be pumping out huge tokens very quickly.
Unwinding Clocks would go in, if only for the extra proliferate on opponent's turns. My worry is that I'll become too much of a target (a serious problem with most of the people I play with on Cockatrice; as soon as you start to look powerful, people gun for you). But what the hell, I'll go for it; go big or go home. And now that I think about it, free untaps on my Monoliths/Mana Vault don't sound half-bad.
The Myojins are expensive (mana-wise), but that's really my only concern; I'll give them a shot too.
Changes:
-1 Hinder (I don't really care to tuck peoples' generals, I'll just kill the players behind the generals)
+1 Power Conduit (Can kinda-sorta lock with Decree of Silence, and proliferate means I can knock a counter off my huge Chalice (or hell, Vivid Marsh), and pop one onto something more relevant).
-1 Dimir Signet
+1 Myojin of Night's Reach
-1 Core Prowler
+1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
-1 Thrummingbird (I always hate when people are like "Sorry for attacking you but I need the triggers!", so I'm not gonna be that DB)
+1 Decree of Pain (felt like more sweep was necessary)
-1 Throne of Geth (no recursion here except for Volrath's Stronghold, so this thing isn't too useful)
+1 Pact of Negation ( )
-1 Snow-Covered Swamp
+1 Thawing Glaciers (to combat land screw)
-1 Tumble Magnet (seems like it'd just be meh unless we're down to 1v1)
+1 Hive Mind (alt. win-con wooo! Plus, this card is just fun)
-1 Strip Mind, -1 Wasteland (I'm not that DB)
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, +1 Cabal Coffers (but I am that DB :D)
-1 Grim Affliction
+1 Unwinding Clocks
-1 Sisay's Ring
+1 Thran Dynamo (strictly better)
1x Skeleton Ship
Proliferate:
1x Tezzeret's Gambit
1x Contagion Clasp
1x Contagion Engine
1x Fuel for the Cause
1x Inexorable Tide
1x Spread the Sickness
1x Viral Drake
Almost Proliferate:
1x Coretapper
1x Energy Chamber
1x Surge Node
1x Vedalken Infuser
1x Power Conduit
1x Unwinding Clocks
Win Cons:
1x Exsanguinate
1x Hex Parasite
1x Decree of Silence
1x Shrine of Burning Rage
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Darksteel Reactor
1x Magistrate's Scepter
1x Hive Mind
Good Stuff:
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Shrine of Loyal Legions
1x Honden of Night's Reach
1x Voltaic Key
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Bribery
Card Draw:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Urza's Blueprints
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Myojin of Seeing Winds
1x Myojin of Night's Reach
1x Eternity Vessel
1x Lux Cannon
1x Orochi Hatchery
1x Titan Forge
Tutors:
1x Fabricate
1x Expedition Map
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Grim Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
Removal:
1x Damnation
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Decree of Pain
Counters:
1x Mana Drain
1x Perplex
Mana Rocks:
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Grim Monolith
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Sol Ring
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Talisman of Dominance
Lands:
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Mishra's Workshop
1x Vesuva
1x Underground Sea
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Marsh Flats
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Watery Grave
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Rupture Spire
1x Academy Ruins
1x Tolaria West
1x Halimar Depths
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Tectonic Edge
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Island
2x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Swamp
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Creek
1x Verdant Catacombs
[MANA]UB[/MANA] Draw, Go BU
GULorthodonUG
RBGNext Level JundGBR
I collect Mirror of Fate (18) and Darksteel Relic (5)!
Why are you reposting your deck and not editing the initial post? It's going to make it hard to keep up with your changes.
Also, have you considered Rhystic Study for card draw?
I notice you also removed Triskelion which I support. I don't think I EVER drew that guy when I wanted to play him.
I like it in my deck, because my proliferation target package includes Golem Foundry and Spawning Pit as well as Orochi Hatchery and Titan Forge. I also run a Thopter Assembly as a "fog" to produce chump blockers, and those tokens can also be sac'd to the Throne.
As far as the mana costs go, you shouldn't be having too many issues. You've got plenty of mana rocks (which can produce even more mana with Unwinding Clock). If you do run into issues, though, Gemstone Array is a mana fixer, proliferate target, and another storage battery for mana all in one. The storage lands I already mentioned are also a possibility.
Throne of Geth + Pentad Prism + Dross Scorpion + Pentavus = Infinite proliferate!
Kinda hard to assemble, due to crappy recursion and whatnot, but horribly powerful once it sticks.
On the Myojin, pick one. They're really pricey, mana-wise, and tend to sit in hand it seems. Maybe play a few games with each one, see which works better for you?
And my last suggestion.. Djinn of Wishes.
With all that mana you'll likely just have sitting around, why not throw out some more cards for almost free?
EDH:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
WDarien, King of KjeldorW
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UWRasputin DreamweaverWU
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
UBRMishra, Artificer ProdigyRBU
RWURuhan of the FomoriUWR
You're right, it's just a bad habit I've picked up from posting in threads I didn't start, where it would take more digging to my original list. OP has been updated to the most recent version. I haven't thought about Study, but it's a nice idea. I was also considering Mind's Eye, which I like more since I control my extra draw, not my opponent. As for Triskelion: I like the idea of him (turn proliferate directly into damage, what's not to like?) but I played a few games, and at no point during any of them would I have been happy to see him.
Oh yeah, I forgot to include the storage lands lol. I don't want to include many more mana rocks, since for some reason people on Cockatrice see the guy with a dozen mana stones as a much bigger threat than the guy with 30 lands.
Yeah, I'm definitely not saying it's a useless artifact. It's great, and can be put to excellent use even with just a Myr Turbine out. I just happen to not have room for the cards that make it truly good. Seems like 100 cards just doesn't go as far as it used to.
[MANA]UB[/MANA] Draw, Go BU
GULorthodonUG
RBGNext Level JundGBR
I collect Mirror of Fate (18) and Darksteel Relic (5)!