This is an Ith deck that I have built recently and have also been in the process of pimping out. The deck is intended only for multiplayer and is meant to act like a soft-control general based on politics. The deck wants to generate lots of deterrants while not pissing my opponents off, having them fight each other while I sit back and clean up the win.
I'm interested to hear what other people think of this deck and possible ideas for how to add to the persuasion theme. On thing I am dead-set against is anything involving mindslaver. My friends hate it, I don't like it happening to me, and I know it wont let me play politically because I'll be killed too quickly after dropping it to do anything productive with it.
Alright bud let me see what I can get you for some feedback:
Luminarch Ascension ohhhh boy this card reads "commit suicide" I dont think I have ever seen one of these successfully get up to its 4 counters. People will be attacking you left and right and it will probably still end up getting blown out before it goes active. If you have had some success running it then by all means continue. My problem is that if you dont drop it on turn 1-2 it feels like it just gets worse and worse as the game goes on.
Oblivion Ring keep in mind that a lot of times someone will pop something like an Oblivion Stone in a game and this might end up rewarding them for doing it. I dont like Oblivion Ring because it feels like it always ends up getting indirectly swept and something bad comes back into play. If you dont have this problem then continue running it but I have seen bad results in the past.
Marble Diamond / Sky Diamond I have to ask how often does the fact that they tap for colored mana matter for this deck??? Most of your cards that you would want to ramp to in this deck are high end mana. I think we might be able to trade these out for some larger stones. Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo, Basalt Monolith all of which could be good for ramping you forward faster. I could see Prismatic Lens going out for a larger stone as well. (Keep in mind the more important and larger the size of your stones the more tempting a target they become for removal)
Worldpurge this is a tricky wincon. I would suggest you might add another 1-2 good flicker effects to make this better. I personally love using something like Tawnos's Coffin you can use it offensively or defensively using it for flicker effects to reuse enters battlefield effects or just locking out a blightsteel colosus for a while. It is up to you how to use it. It has been a lifesaver for me several times in other control based decks of mine. I love using it on someone's general also because they have to decide if they put it back in the command zone lol.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I am actually surprised you dont already have him in here. He is great for a control based deck with expensive creatures. He keeps your options open until the last second allowing you to fake some control.
Gilded Drake mean nasty little critter, I love swapping him into an eldrazi or blightsteel. He is never a dead card and man do people hate him a lot
Body Double is actually a black rez in disguise. I have often found him more impressive than most other clone creatures. He is often a blue primeval titan for me considering that primeval titan usually dies almost on the spot.
Jace Beleren ohhhh man little jace just doesnt impress me at all in EDH. Plainswalkers are hard to defend in EDH so for me a plainswalker better really tear ☺☺☺☺ up when it comes in or have huge loyalty or go off ultimate for really really huge. In my mind you would be better replacing him with one of two other options Elspeth, Knight-Errant, or Tezzeret the Seeker. Both are very good in EDH, Tezzeret I will often drop after a wrath and start picking up utility like Top, Sol Ring, Grave Hate. Elspeth drops out and starts defending herself while building up to everything being indestructable. Both are very good options and I would say either would be better than Jace.
Tunnel Vision a bit of a hit and miss card in my mind. It is fun to tuck and mill someone but if your playgroup starts packing eldrazi then I would abandon this strategy and cut this card. Until then I suppose you can have fun axing people at will.
Magus of the Moat I guess this is a bit of a meta call. I was running elf tribal one time when this hit >_< very strong card but very situational. You can really be helping out another deck if they are combo or fly in with their creatures using something like this. I will leave this one up to you though as I dont know how your meta runs.
Iona, Shield of Emeria my only problem with her is that she is a scary target for someone to bribery you for. If nobody in your meta runs bribery then its not an issue but it sux to get hit by her. Speaking of which... you dont have Bribery in here...
Bribery ohhhhhhhh boy do people hate getting hit by this lol. You need to sort of know your opponents or at the very least read the situation enough to know who to target. I have pulled out turn 4-5 blightsteels / eldrazi using bribery. If you have a counterspell backup, its usually game. Think of it as your Primeval Titan or Eldrazi for blue
Darksteel Ingot I love and hate darksteel all the time. If your stones very rarely get blown up then I would say upgrade this to a Coalition Relic which can give you double mana of any color when you need it. Otherwise I would keep it where it is if you get mana stones blown out a lot.
Swords to Plowshares one mana instant speed removal. This is just such a good staple for white. I would run it as it really is amazing.
Path to Exile I do have to admit that it is inferior to Swords but the instant speed removal for one mana is just too good to pass up. I usually run both of these effects in every white deck I build just because sometimes you need an Oh ☺☺☺☺ card. Try to refrain from using Path on commanders as its usually a waste of time.
Angelic Arbiter -> Karmic Guide creature rez in creature form that works as an amazing defense vs black sounds good to me. I have always hated Angelic Arbiter because I just dont feel like it does much for its cost.
Guile he is a creature that is mainly used in counterspell heavy decks. He isnt bad but he doesnt protect himself very well and other than being hard to block he doesnt do much for you in here.
Windreaver I have always felt he is more mana intensive than he is worth. You will end up draining your entire mana pool in a turn to do a few damage or keep a ton of mana open to try to do his stuff. He just ends up eating turns trying to have options.
Aphetto Alchemist I dont like creatures that require other creatures to be ok. You might as well run Puppet Strings in his place as it at least wont get wrathed off plus it can double up to do other things.
Dovescape is this comboing with something I am not seeing??? Usually this card is used as a combo card in conjunction with Enduring Ideal to set up a hard lock in conjunction with several other enchantments. I just dont know what the plan is after you drop it into play and it feels like it could be a bit suicidal.
So to sort of summarize what I am seeing here, Your deck seems to win through one of two ways that being using the Tunnel Vision + tuck spells to kill off a player or swinging with big end game creatures for the win. I feel like you could probably work on some of your endgame creatures as some of them don't have a whole lot of interaction with anything else in the deck and can be very situational.
I really have to ask why did you pick Ith as your commander???? His mana cost is so extremely high for what he does. I feel like there are probably other commanders in U/W which would be better to run this deck off of. You cant use his suspend part of the card due to how the mecanic is worded so that is useless. If this is a casual deck then you are fine running Ith but if you want it to be competative I would start out by choosing a different commander something like Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, or Rasputin Dreamweaver would all probably make for better commanders. Sorry to bash you commander but he sort of... well sort of sucks.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Woah yikes, didn't see this one coming at all (well ok the general thing I did see coming but that was to be expected). I love this deck actually and I was thinking of making it into a primer so I may have to start going through card by card and making some explanations (or apologies or concessions or *facedesks*)
Luminarch Ascension This is a card I'd tend to agree with. It usually does draw aggro and hasn't ever worked the way I wanted it to so I'll probably remove it for something more effective as a deterrent. Not entirely sure what I want in it's place right now but Sacred Mesa might be a good replacement?
Oblivion Ring might be suboptimal, I am currently running it for 2 reasons. It deals with walkers and indestructables better than similarly costed removal (wing shards) which I might replace it for and it doubles as an offensive card for before I sweep with something like worldpurge. which then lets me get it back into my hand and use it against opponents as they reset.
Sky Diamond and Marble Diamond I chose these right now mostly because I dont own the others you listed. You're absolutly correct though and I do intend to eventually replace them slowly over time.
Worldpurge is just amazing. This card is everything you said it is and more. I haven't gotten it off many times but when I did, I won quite strongly.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I don't own one otherwise I would be playing him. I plan to pick one up from the FtV set so I get it prefoiled for the deck.
Gilded Drake This guy is a bit hit or miss for me. Creature control in my meta tends to draw aggro and I really dont want that to happen with this deck. I think I might try to slide him in there somehow but again I get the feeling that I'll get hated on for playing it.
Body Double yeah I forgot about this guy. Never thought about him as a target for other people's graveyards though. Now my playgroup just needs to have a couple primeval titans for me to target.
Jace Beleren remember this is a political deck. I want to make people happy, also he's an amazing target with things like Sun Titan and Venser the Sojourner. I want to make opponents happy and want to benefit myself too. Howling mine effects generally get killed so I'd prefer
Tunnel Vision is just a win condition for now, easy to recur with some of the guys in here and yeah wins unless eldrazi get in the way.
Magus of the Moat yeah this is basically in there for my specific meta, people need to learn to play more flyers and this is just a hoser against some of my friends decks.
Iona, Shield of Emeria yes people can get it from me, but this doesnt happen often, if I think someone's going to target me I usually hold up hinder or something to deter them. I also will usually give that person a better reason to target the guy with a giant eldrazi in his deck
Bribery well Im not running this so Im not sure what to say. I dont think I will even if I could, its just way too mean. also it helps reanimator decks too often.
Darksteel Ingot nothing to say, mana accel and harder to remove, also less high profile than coalition relic
yeah maybe more removal spells wouldn't hurt, this is a good call.
Angelic Arbiter Im testing this guy so I'll have to tell you how I feel about it later
Guil + Dovescape yeah this is an infinite combo as Prince Tristan said, which is what makes it so fun. AlsoDovescape is just fun to mess with the game when people are getting too spell-heavy
Windreaver I am tempted to agree with you here. Not sure how much I like him yet cause I've only ever drawn him when I was waaaaaaay behind and he's bad might replace with Yosei
Aphetto Alchemist this guy is in here to help untap my general and every other manafact in the deck (also Arcanis)
So we come to my general, the difference between him and say Grand Arbiter is that grand arbiter draws aggro he deters it. I think the same can be said of Hanna but maybe not Rasputin? Im not sure he's the best political general in UW but I think he might be. Still I'mm very open to suggestions. Starting with what other blink effects could I add in that would be useful?
Sorry if I was a bit harsh on some of your choices. I dont think the deck looks bad by any means. U/B has some very odd choices to be made as far as card selection. dont get me wrong, I think Ith is cool... I just think they should have made him like a 2/2 for 4 mana instead of what he is...
I would still stand strong behind my suggestion to replace jace beleran as he is just sort of weak in EDH. Other than that I think most of my suggestions are a bit optional.
But I am currious now... How does Dovescape usually go down for you??? Is there some sort of hidden tech I am not seeing or do you just turn the game into token swarm?
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
@Prince Tristan: Mystifying Maze is a very good idea, youre right that I should add it in. The tutors would also be useful to the deck. My group doesn't mind proxies but I personally feel I should only proxy things I was considering buying and that's just something that would never happen with Forcefield. Other suggestions that may be similar? Also comments on the general choice? Someone better perhaps who keeps the concept?
Righteous Aura = Poor man's Forcefield. It isn't quite as impressive but it functions very similarly.
Along somewhat similar lines Story Circle can often get you out of a jam if someone is playing a deck you just cant deal with.
If you are looking for a new general that is along similar sort of setup I would suggest between Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Hanna, Ship's Navigator. There are other good options also but I feel like these two are closest to your current build. With Augustin you get a bit of good ramp from him while slowing down opponents. He is very funny to run Rhystic Study type effects with because people get a bit grumpy when you ask them to pay 2 more to cast stuff. I think Hana is a great option too but you might want to bring up your artifact / enchant count slightly if you were to move to her. Her ability to recur cards is very scary.
Another decent option would be to add a third color to the deck. Turning it into Bant WGU or Esper WUB would probably be your best options. Granted this would probably require a lot more alterations than just choosing a new WU commander.
You know who else fits the theme of your deck very nicely but doesn't have the 7-mana problem that Ith does? Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer. He's not an all-star like Hanna or GA but he's got his uses and you can cast him before turn 6 or 7. I'd recommend checking him out. And you get to stay in Azorius colors too, for what it's worth.
The Arbiter would be my pick if you want to get as good as possible with your current shell. Hanna is a fantastically powerful general but your entire deck would have to change because her ability is too good not to abuse. But if you want to keep it slightly more casual without too much work (as I suspect you do), your deck gets better and you score more style points with Gwafa.
All awesome suggestions. I have thought about Gwafa, there are a couple problems: in my playgroup he's unorigional (read someone's already built a deck around him) though I know the person has somewhere around 30 EDH decks so he / she wouldn't mind if I made Gwafa too. It's just that I much prefer to play generals that don't overlap with friends so we can have a variety of games without much repetition.
Neither GA nor Hanna have been taken in my playgroup for some strange reason. I have 2 questionsthat I would have to address first:
are these generals really not going to draw hate / unwanted attention from my opponents? GA will be a constant tax on them and a constant accelerant for my deck, I can't believe that people will leave me alone long enough to become a political leader in the game. Hanna is a know combo machine, I'm not going to be able to convince people that they shouldn't be attacking / hating me when she's my general, additionally I'd have to change the theme of the deck with her too much, I'd prefer to keep it a prison style deck.
Adding another color is interesting, what options could I look into for prison generals in WUB / WUG? Two exceptions here alread, Meriki and Rubinia are taken in my playgroup by people with limited decks, I'd rather not step on their toes by taking these generals.
EDIT: to clarify I'm not strictly against either GA or Hanna, and right now I'm actually leaning towards GA since I think I might be able to get away with him slightly better than Hanna with less offensiveness, but I'd just need some reassurance that people haven't been hated out of every game they play with him
I don't think the Arbiter will draw so much hate that you won't enjoy playing him. The prison lock thing does work. People will not want to pay around your Ghostly Prison shenanigans just to attack you.
Hanna will draw hate. There is no question about it. If she doesn't get hated on, she wins. So that's that
For adding black, maybe you use either Sen Triplets, Ertai, the Corrupted or Lady Evangela. The lady seems to be the most defensive of the three and will also draw less hate than Ertai, who is pretty nuts. Besides, with black you get No Mercy and Dread :).
I think that once you add Green to the mix it will be tough to maintain the "prison" style of deck you're trying to build. It's very tempting to add great green ramp and creatures and before you know it you're playing either Bant blink/ETB shenanigans or Stompy with blue counters and white removal. I wouldn't recommend going that way if you want to play defense. I suppose Angus Mackenzie would be a good general though if you do.
Ohhhh man Sen Triplets gets some hating on though. Nobody likes the idea of being mind slavered every turn and everyone assumes it will be targeting them. Sure it isnt actually mindslaver but god it feels like it.
Don do Zur either... he brings down more hate than hana does.
I think out of the options Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Lady Evangela, and Angus Mackenzie are all probably the closest to resembling the deck as you currently play it but with a lower mana costs to cast out and use.
In my opinion of taxing generals as long as people feel like it isnt destroying their game they will deal with it. The fact that you are taxing everyone makes it feel a bit less busted because they know that all but one other player has to deal with it also. I for one run teferi as a commander and as long as I am not completely cutting off another control player most people leave him be because they would rather use their swords to plowshares on an eldrazi or a primeval titan rather than a utility commander that might not be hurting them that much depending upon what commander they are running. Plus even if they throw their spells at you, you might have a counterspell for their hate which makes them think twice about it.
Didn't even think of Lady Evangela, that's actually a pretty cool idea. I think I might give her a try and just bring ith into the deck proper. Id need to rework the list quite a bit. So under the assumption that I'll play lady what should I add to the deck to help the transition?
two cards I already know are in: No Mercy and Dread. These deter like no one's business.
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"super casual EDH scrub"
Level 1 Judge
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CREATURES
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
1 Aphetto Alchemist
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Windreaver
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
1 Draining Whelk
1 Duplicant
1 Guile
1 Sun Titan
1 Angelic Arbiter
ARTIFACTS
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Azorius Signet
1 Marble Diamond
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Sky Diamond
1 Crystal Shard
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Erratic Portal
1 Arrest
1 Aura of Silence
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Prison Term
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Dovescape
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Future Sight
1 Luminarch Ascension
INSTANTS
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Trickbind
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Hinder
1 Spin into Myth
1 Time Stop
SORCERIES
1 Austere Command
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Recurring Insight
1 Tunnel Vision
1 Worldpurge
1 Blatant Thievery
PLANESWALKERS
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Jace Beleren
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 High Market
12 Island
1 Kor Haven
1 Maze of Ith
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
14 Plains
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Strip Mine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
I'm interested to hear what other people think of this deck and possible ideas for how to add to the persuasion theme. On thing I am dead-set against is anything involving mindslaver. My friends hate it, I don't like it happening to me, and I know it wont let me play politically because I'll be killed too quickly after dropping it to do anything productive with it.
Thanks!
Level 1 Judge
Luminarch Ascension ohhhh boy this card reads "commit suicide" I dont think I have ever seen one of these successfully get up to its 4 counters. People will be attacking you left and right and it will probably still end up getting blown out before it goes active. If you have had some success running it then by all means continue. My problem is that if you dont drop it on turn 1-2 it feels like it just gets worse and worse as the game goes on.
Oblivion Ring keep in mind that a lot of times someone will pop something like an Oblivion Stone in a game and this might end up rewarding them for doing it. I dont like Oblivion Ring because it feels like it always ends up getting indirectly swept and something bad comes back into play. If you dont have this problem then continue running it but I have seen bad results in the past.
Marble Diamond / Sky Diamond I have to ask how often does the fact that they tap for colored mana matter for this deck??? Most of your cards that you would want to ramp to in this deck are high end mana. I think we might be able to trade these out for some larger stones. Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo, Basalt Monolith all of which could be good for ramping you forward faster. I could see Prismatic Lens going out for a larger stone as well. (Keep in mind the more important and larger the size of your stones the more tempting a target they become for removal)
Worldpurge this is a tricky wincon. I would suggest you might add another 1-2 good flicker effects to make this better. I personally love using something like Tawnos's Coffin you can use it offensively or defensively using it for flicker effects to reuse enters battlefield effects or just locking out a blightsteel colosus for a while. It is up to you how to use it. It has been a lifesaver for me several times in other control based decks of mine. I love using it on someone's general also because they have to decide if they put it back in the command zone lol.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I am actually surprised you dont already have him in here. He is great for a control based deck with expensive creatures. He keeps your options open until the last second allowing you to fake some control.
Gilded Drake mean nasty little critter, I love swapping him into an eldrazi or blightsteel. He is never a dead card and man do people hate him a lot
Body Double is actually a black rez in disguise. I have often found him more impressive than most other clone creatures. He is often a blue primeval titan for me considering that primeval titan usually dies almost on the spot.
Jace Beleren ohhhh man little jace just doesnt impress me at all in EDH. Plainswalkers are hard to defend in EDH so for me a plainswalker better really tear ☺☺☺☺ up when it comes in or have huge loyalty or go off ultimate for really really huge. In my mind you would be better replacing him with one of two other options Elspeth, Knight-Errant, or Tezzeret the Seeker. Both are very good in EDH, Tezzeret I will often drop after a wrath and start picking up utility like Top, Sol Ring, Grave Hate. Elspeth drops out and starts defending herself while building up to everything being indestructable. Both are very good options and I would say either would be better than Jace.
Tunnel Vision a bit of a hit and miss card in my mind. It is fun to tuck and mill someone but if your playgroup starts packing eldrazi then I would abandon this strategy and cut this card. Until then I suppose you can have fun axing people at will.
Magus of the Moat I guess this is a bit of a meta call. I was running elf tribal one time when this hit >_< very strong card but very situational. You can really be helping out another deck if they are combo or fly in with their creatures using something like this. I will leave this one up to you though as I dont know how your meta runs.
Iona, Shield of Emeria my only problem with her is that she is a scary target for someone to bribery you for. If nobody in your meta runs bribery then its not an issue but it sux to get hit by her. Speaking of which... you dont have Bribery in here...
Bribery ohhhhhhhh boy do people hate getting hit by this lol. You need to sort of know your opponents or at the very least read the situation enough to know who to target. I have pulled out turn 4-5 blightsteels / eldrazi using bribery. If you have a counterspell backup, its usually game. Think of it as your Primeval Titan or Eldrazi for blue
Darksteel Ingot I love and hate darksteel all the time. If your stones very rarely get blown up then I would say upgrade this to a Coalition Relic which can give you double mana of any color when you need it. Otherwise I would keep it where it is if you get mana stones blown out a lot.
Swords to Plowshares one mana instant speed removal. This is just such a good staple for white. I would run it as it really is amazing.
Path to Exile I do have to admit that it is inferior to Swords but the instant speed removal for one mana is just too good to pass up. I usually run both of these effects in every white deck I build just because sometimes you need an Oh ☺☺☺☺ card. Try to refrain from using Path on commanders as its usually a waste of time.
Angelic Arbiter -> Karmic Guide creature rez in creature form that works as an amazing defense vs black sounds good to me. I have always hated Angelic Arbiter because I just dont feel like it does much for its cost.
Guile he is a creature that is mainly used in counterspell heavy decks. He isnt bad but he doesnt protect himself very well and other than being hard to block he doesnt do much for you in here.
Windreaver I have always felt he is more mana intensive than he is worth. You will end up draining your entire mana pool in a turn to do a few damage or keep a ton of mana open to try to do his stuff. He just ends up eating turns trying to have options.
Aphetto Alchemist I dont like creatures that require other creatures to be ok. You might as well run Puppet Strings in his place as it at least wont get wrathed off plus it can double up to do other things.
Dovescape is this comboing with something I am not seeing??? Usually this card is used as a combo card in conjunction with Enduring Ideal to set up a hard lock in conjunction with several other enchantments. I just dont know what the plan is after you drop it into play and it feels like it could be a bit suicidal.
So to sort of summarize what I am seeing here, Your deck seems to win through one of two ways that being using the Tunnel Vision + tuck spells to kill off a player or swinging with big end game creatures for the win. I feel like you could probably work on some of your endgame creatures as some of them don't have a whole lot of interaction with anything else in the deck and can be very situational.
I really have to ask why did you pick Ith as your commander???? His mana cost is so extremely high for what he does. I feel like there are probably other commanders in U/W which would be better to run this deck off of. You cant use his suspend part of the card due to how the mecanic is worded so that is useless. If this is a casual deck then you are fine running Ith but if you want it to be competative I would start out by choosing a different commander something like Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, or Rasputin Dreamweaver would all probably make for better commanders. Sorry to bash you commander but he sort of... well sort of sucks.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Luminarch Ascension This is a card I'd tend to agree with. It usually does draw aggro and hasn't ever worked the way I wanted it to so I'll probably remove it for something more effective as a deterrent. Not entirely sure what I want in it's place right now but Sacred Mesa might be a good replacement?
Oblivion Ring might be suboptimal, I am currently running it for 2 reasons. It deals with walkers and indestructables better than similarly costed removal (wing shards) which I might replace it for and it doubles as an offensive card for before I sweep with something like worldpurge. which then lets me get it back into my hand and use it against opponents as they reset.
Sky Diamond and Marble Diamond I chose these right now mostly because I dont own the others you listed. You're absolutly correct though and I do intend to eventually replace them slowly over time.
Worldpurge is just amazing. This card is everything you said it is and more. I haven't gotten it off many times but when I did, I won quite strongly.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I don't own one otherwise I would be playing him. I plan to pick one up from the FtV set so I get it prefoiled for the deck.
Gilded Drake This guy is a bit hit or miss for me. Creature control in my meta tends to draw aggro and I really dont want that to happen with this deck. I think I might try to slide him in there somehow but again I get the feeling that I'll get hated on for playing it.
Body Double yeah I forgot about this guy. Never thought about him as a target for other people's graveyards though. Now my playgroup just needs to have a couple primeval titans for me to target.
Jace Beleren remember this is a political deck. I want to make people happy, also he's an amazing target with things like Sun Titan and Venser the Sojourner. I want to make opponents happy and want to benefit myself too. Howling mine effects generally get killed so I'd prefer
Tunnel Vision is just a win condition for now, easy to recur with some of the guys in here and yeah wins unless eldrazi get in the way.
Magus of the Moat yeah this is basically in there for my specific meta, people need to learn to play more flyers and this is just a hoser against some of my friends decks.
Iona, Shield of Emeria yes people can get it from me, but this doesnt happen often, if I think someone's going to target me I usually hold up hinder or something to deter them. I also will usually give that person a better reason to target the guy with a giant eldrazi in his deck
Bribery well Im not running this so Im not sure what to say. I dont think I will even if I could, its just way too mean. also it helps reanimator decks too often.
Darksteel Ingot nothing to say, mana accel and harder to remove, also less high profile than coalition relic
yeah maybe more removal spells wouldn't hurt, this is a good call.
Angelic Arbiter Im testing this guy so I'll have to tell you how I feel about it later
Guil + Dovescape yeah this is an infinite combo as Prince Tristan said, which is what makes it so fun. AlsoDovescape is just fun to mess with the game when people are getting too spell-heavy
Windreaver I am tempted to agree with you here. Not sure how much I like him yet cause I've only ever drawn him when I was waaaaaaay behind and he's bad might replace with Yosei
Aphetto Alchemist this guy is in here to help untap my general and every other manafact in the deck (also Arcanis)
So we come to my general, the difference between him and say Grand Arbiter is that grand arbiter draws aggro he deters it. I think the same can be said of Hanna but maybe not Rasputin? Im not sure he's the best political general in UW but I think he might be. Still I'mm very open to suggestions. Starting with what other blink effects could I add in that would be useful?
Level 1 Judge
I would still stand strong behind my suggestion to replace jace beleran as he is just sort of weak in EDH. Other than that I think most of my suggestions are a bit optional.
But I am currious now... How does Dovescape usually go down for you??? Is there some sort of hidden tech I am not seeing or do you just turn the game into token swarm?
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[Modern] Allies
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Along somewhat similar lines Story Circle can often get you out of a jam if someone is playing a deck you just cant deal with.
If you are looking for a new general that is along similar sort of setup I would suggest between Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Hanna, Ship's Navigator. There are other good options also but I feel like these two are closest to your current build. With Augustin you get a bit of good ramp from him while slowing down opponents. He is very funny to run Rhystic Study type effects with because people get a bit grumpy when you ask them to pay 2 more to cast stuff. I think Hana is a great option too but you might want to bring up your artifact / enchant count slightly if you were to move to her. Her ability to recur cards is very scary.
Another decent option would be to add a third color to the deck. Turning it into Bant WGU or Esper WUB would probably be your best options. Granted this would probably require a lot more alterations than just choosing a new WU commander.
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[Modern] Allies
You know who else fits the theme of your deck very nicely but doesn't have the 7-mana problem that Ith does? Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer. He's not an all-star like Hanna or GA but he's got his uses and you can cast him before turn 6 or 7. I'd recommend checking him out. And you get to stay in Azorius colors too, for what it's worth.
The Arbiter would be my pick if you want to get as good as possible with your current shell. Hanna is a fantastically powerful general but your entire deck would have to change because her ability is too good not to abuse. But if you want to keep it slightly more casual without too much work (as I suspect you do), your deck gets better and you score more style points with Gwafa.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Neither GA nor Hanna have been taken in my playgroup for some strange reason. I have 2 questionsthat I would have to address first:
are these generals really not going to draw hate / unwanted attention from my opponents? GA will be a constant tax on them and a constant accelerant for my deck, I can't believe that people will leave me alone long enough to become a political leader in the game. Hanna is a know combo machine, I'm not going to be able to convince people that they shouldn't be attacking / hating me when she's my general, additionally I'd have to change the theme of the deck with her too much, I'd prefer to keep it a prison style deck.
Adding another color is interesting, what options could I look into for prison generals in WUB / WUG? Two exceptions here alread, Meriki and Rubinia are taken in my playgroup by people with limited decks, I'd rather not step on their toes by taking these generals.
EDIT: to clarify I'm not strictly against either GA or Hanna, and right now I'm actually leaning towards GA since I think I might be able to get away with him slightly better than Hanna with less offensiveness, but I'd just need some reassurance that people haven't been hated out of every game they play with him
Level 1 Judge
Hanna will draw hate. There is no question about it. If she doesn't get hated on, she wins. So that's that
For adding black, maybe you use either Sen Triplets, Ertai, the Corrupted or Lady Evangela. The lady seems to be the most defensive of the three and will also draw less hate than Ertai, who is pretty nuts. Besides, with black you get No Mercy and Dread :).
I think that once you add Green to the mix it will be tough to maintain the "prison" style of deck you're trying to build. It's very tempting to add great green ramp and creatures and before you know it you're playing either Bant blink/ETB shenanigans or Stompy with blue counters and white removal. I wouldn't recommend going that way if you want to play defense. I suppose Angus Mackenzie would be a good general though if you do.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Don do Zur either... he brings down more hate than hana does.
I think out of the options Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Lady Evangela, and Angus Mackenzie are all probably the closest to resembling the deck as you currently play it but with a lower mana costs to cast out and use.
In my opinion of taxing generals as long as people feel like it isnt destroying their game they will deal with it. The fact that you are taxing everyone makes it feel a bit less busted because they know that all but one other player has to deal with it also. I for one run teferi as a commander and as long as I am not completely cutting off another control player most people leave him be because they would rather use their swords to plowshares on an eldrazi or a primeval titan rather than a utility commander that might not be hurting them that much depending upon what commander they are running. Plus even if they throw their spells at you, you might have a counterspell for their hate which makes them think twice about it.
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[Modern] Allies
two cards I already know are in: No Mercy and Dread. These deter like no one's business.
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