In my playgroup, people usually seem to turn to me to fire off a board sweeper and keep the game honest. I'm usually the one that keeps someone from going out of control by developing a monstrous army or having something else big out.
When I took apart my Volrath deck a while ago, I was looking for a better mono black general that wouldn't just be an extremely fragile one-trick pony after people caught onto the whole Volrath discards Emrakul or Draco for the game. I was able to live the dream a few times, but then people wised up and started to hold instant-speed removal in response for Volrath feeding off a big creature. So I started looking towards MBC which has been explored a lot, but there's a lot of space to work with because there are so many effective cards to use, including generals as well.
Effective generals for MBC? Maga and Drana came to my mind at first. Both are proven to be very good, but both are pretty overdone.
Then there's Xiahou Dun, but he literally quadrupled in price in a matter of a few weeks.
Chainer? Meh, he's pretty frail and requires at least some sort of building around. It also doesn't help that the stolen creatures are gone for good when he leaves play at all.
Visara? I love her, but having to wait to my next upkeep to kill something can be very frustrating.
It didn't take long to find the general I was looking for: Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Not many people really know about this card considering it was from the very maligned set of Saviors. I remember the awesome times I had back in the days of Kamigawa Block Constructed rocking Kagemaro. Abusing it with Goryo's Vengeance and Footsteps of the Goryo in that current era of Reanimator makes me go back a long way.
Aside from the nostalgia trip (I'm a bit of a sucker to nostalgia), Kagemaro provides several things to the table that set it apart from other generals:
- A board sweeper when needed
- Said board sweeper being able to completely circumvent indestructibility and regeneration
- A controllable board sweeper (kill the small guys, keep my big stuff still alive or just blow up every creature)
- A utility creature that also doubles as a beatdown creature
- The rattlesnake factor (don't mess with me or I sac Kagemaro and nuke the board)
So with what I currently physically have on hand, I'm starting out with this:
Hey again SC! You know I'm a sucker for MBC lists :P, so I'm going to throw down my 2 cents.
There's clearly nothing wrong with your list. I may argue a few things here and there, but for the most part they would be preference calls. Actually, let me get those out of the way right now before I go deeper.
A few cards that I am unsure of or have never tried, perhaps you could comment on them? I'm always intrigued by different cards that may find their way into my own lists:
Mystifying Maze - is this not an inferior Maze of Ith? Perhaps this is a budget decision, but I don't want to sound presumptuous either.
Terramorphic Expanse and functional reprints - over fetchlands? Once again I presume this is a budget call as well as the avoidance of unnecessary life loss. The deck does indeed have a slow startup, so I can see that being a somewhat reasonable choice.
Eye of Ugin - brilliant in here! I think I've seen others run it (such as Donal), but I just want to point this out for anyone else reading that finding two VERY crucial creatures, Ulamog and Sundering Titan, can affect the game drastically. I'll be honest and say that I'm not the biggest fan of cards like these that are so useless early on, but I can understand its merit.
Bojuka Bog - I know it looks great on paper, but I haven't really had much luck with it. The CIPT clause is too much of a hindrance to me, though you can get away with running one less GY hate card with this in your list.
Dread - not so much calling this creature out as much as I'm asking whether or not you've tried Grave Titan. I've asked Tom Servo the same question in his thread and he says it's been great for him. I've never actually had the chance to try him out, but it seems like his power level is more diminished in multiplayer games. Still, he is able to hold the ground and becomes quite a threat if left alone.
Elixir of Immortality - interesting choice here. Insurance I suppose? Both from mill and, lol, from death.
Slaughter & Devour in Shadow - I personally am not a fan of either of these in multiplayer. They are great in 1v1, but the urgency isn't of utmost importance. I prefer sacrifice effects and Rend Flesh, but this is leaning more towards preference anyways.
Now that I've gotten that over with, I kind of want to talk about developing some subthemes or engines in here. There are two things to note about Kagemaro: 1) his activation cost is only one black and 2) he grows with hand size. SO. While we're on the first note, utilizing cards such as Corpse Dance with Kagemaro can allow you to very cheaply, but continually, devoid the board of creatures. Yes I understand that you'll probably have him head to the command zone most the time, but it's something to keep in mind. I once won a game versus Luminarch Ascension simply by dancing Kagemaro for about 20 turns while I found my Oblivion Stone. No joke. As for the second point, I think there might be an opportunity for the Bloodghast/Reassembling Skeleton + Skullclamp engine here. You might not need the cards, but I feel like these mono black control decks could use a few tiny combos to really give it an edge.
Mystifying Maze - is this not an inferior Maze of Ith? Perhaps this is a budget decision, but I don't want to sound presumptuous either.
This is a budget decision for me, as my only Maze of Ith is in my Sakashima deck. Mystifying Maze isn't too bad of a substitute though. It taps for mana, which is something nice that it has over the original Maze.
Terramorphic Expanse and functional reprints - over fetchlands? Once again I presume this is a budget call as well as the avoidance of unnecessary life loss. The deck does indeed have a slow startup, so I can see that being a somewhat reasonable choice.
Again, budget call. My fetchlands are in other decks, so I just went with the $.25 substitutes which should suffice.
Eye of Ugin - brilliant in here! I think I've seen others run it (such as Donal), but I just want to point this out for anyone else reading that finding two VERY crucial creatures, Ulamog and Sundering Titan, can affect the game drastically. I'll be honest and say that I'm not the biggest fan of cards like these that are so useless early on, but I can understand its merit.
Eye of Ugin's inability to do anything in the late game is heavily offset by its sheer power in the late game. Tutoring for Sundering Titan and Ulamog is far too powerful to ignore. You can also get Duplicant as well; probably one of the more underappreciated of the "staple" EDH cards. I basically treat the card not as a land, but some sort of zero-cast enchantment so I still have the mana necessary to get through into the mid and late game.
Bojuka Bog - I know it looks great on paper, but I haven't really had much luck with it. The CIPT clause is too much of a hindrance to me, though you can get away with running one less GY hate card with this in your list.
I'll take the extra slot over a possible slow down from dropping Bog. As much as I preach to people to run enough graveyard hate, having multiple tutors and good card draw helps to decrease the number of needed pieces of graveyard hate. There are many strategies relying on the graveyard that get completely taken out of commission when you exile one or two critical cards (i.e., taking out Genesis and Squee to bust up a Survival engine).
Dread - not so much calling this creature out as much as I'm asking whether or not you've tried Grave Titan. I've asked Tom Servo the same question in his thread and he says it's been great for him. I've never actually had the chance to try him out, but it seems like his power level is more diminished in multiplayer games. Still, he is able to hold the ground and becomes quite a threat if left alone.
Grave Titan can hold the ground with his ever-increasing zombie army, but Dread can flat-out discourage someone from attacking you. He is a powerful deterrent that doesn't attract too much hate at the same time because an opponent that could attack you could attack someone else and not have to spend resources to do so. He is also very tough to fully kill and I like having fear over deathtouch on a 6/6 body.
Elixir of Immortality - interesting choice here. Insurance I suppose? Both from mill and, lol, from death.
Here's the idea I have with Elixir -- it recycles your graveyard in a way that recurs your big cards so you can play them late in a game while protecting you from graveyard hate at the same time. Since we're not using someone like Xiahou Dun who is going to be raiding the graveyard constantly, I'm trying out an attrition-based card that keeps most of my deck in check. It also hoses mill, but that wasn't exactly what I intended it for in the first place. Ulamog also takes care of milling shenanigans. I've had a bit of a liking towards cards like Feldon's Cane and Thran Foundry as a method for a deck to keep grinding it out going into a late game, but they're one-shot effects. Elixir solves that problem AND gives a nice 5 life buffer to boot. That is most certainly welcome when some cards cough up chunks of your life in this deck.
Slaughter & Devour in Shadow - I personally am not a fan of either of these in multiplayer. They are great in 1v1, but the urgency isn't of utmost importance. I prefer sacrifice effects and Rend Flesh, but this is leaning more towards preference anyways.
Good points. While spot removal generally is weaker in 1v1, it's still always nice to have answers to something you want to take out right now. I remember talking to you about this. Rend Flesh is definitely in the back of my mind though. Slaughter is a card that seems hilariously powerful in theory, but considering I have repetitive board wipes with Kagemaro I can see it being redundant.
Now that I've gotten that over with, I kind of want to talk about developing some subthemes or engines in here. There are two things to note about Kagemaro: 1) his activation cost is only one black and 2) he grows with hand size. SO. While we're on the first note, utilizing cards such as Corpse Dance with Kagemaro can allow you to very cheaply, but continually, devoid the board of creatures. Yes I understand that you'll probably have him head to the command zone most the time, but it's something to keep in mind. I once won a game versus Luminarch Ascension simply by dancing Kagemaro for about 20 turns while I found my Oblivion Stone. No joke. As for the second point, I think there might be an opportunity for the Bloodghast/Reassembling Skeleton + Skullclamp engine here. You might not need the cards, but I feel like these mono black control decks could use a few tiny combos to really give it an edge.
Just some food for thought.
First of all, I really like the combo with Corpse Dance! Never really thought about that. When I get the chance to pick one up it will be something I will try to incorporate into the deck.
Second, the Bloodghast/R. Skeleton combo with Clamp seems good, but I don't like how both cards have to feed off of each other to get going. Skullclamp is lackluster in this deck since the creature count is somewhat low, and both of the reanimators above are pretty underwhelming by themselves.
Eye is great in that it tutors for the creatures you've mentioned, but I have difficulty believing that it's better than another utility land here. Like you previously mentioned, black possesses the best tutors and some of the best card draw ever printed... I can't see you having any difficulty getting ahold of those creatures. I suppose there's really no downside when you've got Urborg out, though I'll have to test it in my list.
When I took apart my Volrath deck a while ago, I was looking for a better mono black general that wouldn't just be an extremely fragile one-trick pony after people caught onto the whole Volrath discards Emrakul or Draco for the game. I was able to live the dream a few times, but then people wised up and started to hold instant-speed removal in response for Volrath feeding off a big creature. So I started looking towards MBC which has been explored a lot, but there's a lot of space to work with because there are so many effective cards to use, including generals as well.
Effective generals for MBC? Maga and Drana came to my mind at first. Both are proven to be very good, but both are pretty overdone.
Then there's Xiahou Dun, but he literally quadrupled in price in a matter of a few weeks.
Chainer? Meh, he's pretty frail and requires at least some sort of building around. It also doesn't help that the stolen creatures are gone for good when he leaves play at all.
Visara? I love her, but having to wait to my next upkeep to kill something can be very frustrating.
It didn't take long to find the general I was looking for: Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Not many people really know about this card considering it was from the very maligned set of Saviors. I remember the awesome times I had back in the days of Kamigawa Block Constructed rocking Kagemaro. Abusing it with Goryo's Vengeance and Footsteps of the Goryo in that current era of Reanimator makes me go back a long way.
Aside from the nostalgia trip (I'm a bit of a sucker to nostalgia), Kagemaro provides several things to the table that set it apart from other generals:
- A board sweeper when needed
- Said board sweeper being able to completely circumvent indestructibility and regeneration
- A controllable board sweeper (kill the small guys, keep my big stuff still alive or just blow up every creature)
- A utility creature that also doubles as a beatdown creature
- The rattlesnake factor (don't mess with me or I sac Kagemaro and nuke the board)
So with what I currently physically have on hand, I'm starting out with this:
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Lands (43)
27 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Deserted Temple
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Strip Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Thawing Glaciers
Creatures (15)
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Shriekmaw
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Duplicant
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Helldozer
1 Dread
1 Sundering Titan
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Expedition Map
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Gauntlet of Power
Sorceries (17)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Syphon Mind
1 Damnation
1 Mutilate
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Brainspoil
1 Promise of Power
1 All is Dust
1 Decree of Pain
1 Consume Spirit
1 Mind Twist
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Shred Memory
1 Devour in Shadow
1 Sudden Death
1 Slaughter
1 Skeletal Scrying
Enchantments (4)
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Enslave
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
Then it'll be some testing before I start figuring out what works and what doesn't.
BBB Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief BBB
GBW Ghave, Guru of Spores WBG
BUG Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
UBU Sexy Wrexy BUB
RUG Riku of Two Reflections GUR
GGG Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant GGG
Black isn't a color that needs card draw of something like Kozilek considering it has the best tutors and some of the best card draw to begin with.
Ulamog is a much better fit for this deck because the ability to Vindicate is sorely needed for black, and I'll take 2 less P/T for indestructibility.
There's clearly nothing wrong with your list. I may argue a few things here and there, but for the most part they would be preference calls. Actually, let me get those out of the way right now before I go deeper.
A few cards that I am unsure of or have never tried, perhaps you could comment on them? I'm always intrigued by different cards that may find their way into my own lists:
Mystifying Maze - is this not an inferior Maze of Ith? Perhaps this is a budget decision, but I don't want to sound presumptuous either.
Terramorphic Expanse and functional reprints - over fetchlands? Once again I presume this is a budget call as well as the avoidance of unnecessary life loss. The deck does indeed have a slow startup, so I can see that being a somewhat reasonable choice.
Eye of Ugin - brilliant in here! I think I've seen others run it (such as Donal), but I just want to point this out for anyone else reading that finding two VERY crucial creatures, Ulamog and Sundering Titan, can affect the game drastically. I'll be honest and say that I'm not the biggest fan of cards like these that are so useless early on, but I can understand its merit.
Bojuka Bog - I know it looks great on paper, but I haven't really had much luck with it. The CIPT clause is too much of a hindrance to me, though you can get away with running one less GY hate card with this in your list.
Dread - not so much calling this creature out as much as I'm asking whether or not you've tried Grave Titan. I've asked Tom Servo the same question in his thread and he says it's been great for him. I've never actually had the chance to try him out, but it seems like his power level is more diminished in multiplayer games. Still, he is able to hold the ground and becomes quite a threat if left alone.
Elixir of Immortality - interesting choice here. Insurance I suppose? Both from mill and, lol, from death.
Slaughter & Devour in Shadow - I personally am not a fan of either of these in multiplayer. They are great in 1v1, but the urgency isn't of utmost importance. I prefer sacrifice effects and Rend Flesh, but this is leaning more towards preference anyways.
Now that I've gotten that over with, I kind of want to talk about developing some subthemes or engines in here. There are two things to note about Kagemaro: 1) his activation cost is only one black and 2) he grows with hand size. SO. While we're on the first note, utilizing cards such as Corpse Dance with Kagemaro can allow you to very cheaply, but continually, devoid the board of creatures. Yes I understand that you'll probably have him head to the command zone most the time, but it's something to keep in mind. I once won a game versus Luminarch Ascension simply by dancing Kagemaro for about 20 turns while I found my Oblivion Stone. No joke. As for the second point, I think there might be an opportunity for the Bloodghast/Reassembling Skeleton + Skullclamp engine here. You might not need the cards, but I feel like these mono black control decks could use a few tiny combos to really give it an edge.
Just some food for thought.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
This is a budget decision for me, as my only Maze of Ith is in my Sakashima deck. Mystifying Maze isn't too bad of a substitute though. It taps for mana, which is something nice that it has over the original Maze.
Again, budget call. My fetchlands are in other decks, so I just went with the $.25 substitutes which should suffice.
Eye of Ugin's inability to do anything in the late game is heavily offset by its sheer power in the late game. Tutoring for Sundering Titan and Ulamog is far too powerful to ignore. You can also get Duplicant as well; probably one of the more underappreciated of the "staple" EDH cards. I basically treat the card not as a land, but some sort of zero-cast enchantment so I still have the mana necessary to get through into the mid and late game.
I'll take the extra slot over a possible slow down from dropping Bog. As much as I preach to people to run enough graveyard hate, having multiple tutors and good card draw helps to decrease the number of needed pieces of graveyard hate. There are many strategies relying on the graveyard that get completely taken out of commission when you exile one or two critical cards (i.e., taking out Genesis and Squee to bust up a Survival engine).
Grave Titan can hold the ground with his ever-increasing zombie army, but Dread can flat-out discourage someone from attacking you. He is a powerful deterrent that doesn't attract too much hate at the same time because an opponent that could attack you could attack someone else and not have to spend resources to do so. He is also very tough to fully kill and I like having fear over deathtouch on a 6/6 body.
Here's the idea I have with Elixir -- it recycles your graveyard in a way that recurs your big cards so you can play them late in a game while protecting you from graveyard hate at the same time. Since we're not using someone like Xiahou Dun who is going to be raiding the graveyard constantly, I'm trying out an attrition-based card that keeps most of my deck in check. It also hoses mill, but that wasn't exactly what I intended it for in the first place. Ulamog also takes care of milling shenanigans. I've had a bit of a liking towards cards like Feldon's Cane and Thran Foundry as a method for a deck to keep grinding it out going into a late game, but they're one-shot effects. Elixir solves that problem AND gives a nice 5 life buffer to boot. That is most certainly welcome when some cards cough up chunks of your life in this deck.
Good points. While spot removal generally is weaker in 1v1, it's still always nice to have answers to something you want to take out right now. I remember talking to you about this. Rend Flesh is definitely in the back of my mind though. Slaughter is a card that seems hilariously powerful in theory, but considering I have repetitive board wipes with Kagemaro I can see it being redundant.
First of all, I really like the combo with Corpse Dance! Never really thought about that. When I get the chance to pick one up it will be something I will try to incorporate into the deck.
Second, the Bloodghast/R. Skeleton combo with Clamp seems good, but I don't like how both cards have to feed off of each other to get going. Skullclamp is lackluster in this deck since the creature count is somewhat low, and both of the reanimators above are pretty underwhelming by themselves.
Are the fetches mostly for shuffle?
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU