This thread will be for discussion of competitive Jenara, Asura of War duel commander decks (french banlist).
Although I have / had a lot of fun with Jenara Enchantress and Jenara ETB/blink versions, this thread is about the more classical aggro-control build only, which is considered as the most competitive, as evidenced by the results of multiple major tournaments over the past couple of years. It's based on Legacy Bant decks more than anything else.
Now that the scope of this thread is clarified, here is my current decklist for reference :
Thanks for your welcome, even if we already "met" in your Mimeo thread, where you retained some of my suggestions.
First, about the Geist of Saint Traft matchup, and also the Zur the Enchanter matchup, I think the best weapons is always the clones. So including Sakashima's Student again is probably the way to go. Ninjutsu can't be countered, which means you can simply attack with everybody and bounce a guy to kill your opponent's commander without any possibility to counter that except with Stifle.
Fair enough. The reason why the ninja often goes in and out is that in some match-ups, it's difficult to keep creatures alive on the board (other than Jenara that I don't want to bounce) or to dodge my opponent's creatures (my creature count being pretty low and most of them lacking any form of evasion).
Also, Jenara, Asura of War is already, in itself, a good way of dealing with Geist of Saint Traft (provided you have a counterspell or a Disenchant for his equipment). From what I had tested, Jenara had a slightly positive matchup against Geist.
You write that a lot of counterspells and disenchant effects are what makes the difference against Geist. That's my opinion too, so I'm actually thinking about increasing the number of disenchant effects, as disenchants are rarely dead cards in the current meta (full of Zur / rocks / equipements / Oath of Druids / Survival of the Fittest / Humility). What's your opinion ?
Second, about generic suggestions. I like your version a lot, seems like a good mana curve balance for me. One thing though, are you sure you want to play that many counterspells ? Especially the small ones. Mental Misstep has become less effective since Edric has been banned, being a dead card against Maelstrom Wanderer.
I always feel safer with more counterspells I love the feeling that, if I choose correctly the spells to counter, I can stop any game plan and win any game. But maybe it's too much this time. You would play less counterspells but more removal (Journey to Nowhere, Oust, Path to Exile maybe, even if I don't like it much) ? What I want to avoid is to become too removal-heavy and, as a result, to have too many dead cards in the GAA match-up. Maybe the clone way is the right one, replacing Misstep with Sakashima's Student ?
Mental Misstep is actually a dead card against Wanderer, but it's useful in almost all the other matchups against tutors (especially Enlightened Tutor and Steelshaper's Gift, that I want to counter when I have no disenchant in hand), Animar's first turn, a lot of spot removals, Griselbrand / Mimeo first turn discard... But maybe it doesn't do enough to deserve a slot. Still not sure.
What about Daze ? I can't decide if I like it or not in this deck, as the tempo loss is an issue here, and playing it for 2 sometimes looks weak. Also, good players tend to play around it most of the time, at least for their key spells.
Also, I am not a huge fan of Ponder in this deck. It is good in combo decks or decks where you need to dig to find your game breaker, but here it looks like speed is more important.
The deck plays no real game breaker (excepted the planewalkers and Parallax Wave), but finding a solution often makes the difference between a win and a loss. Ponder may look subpar as a card but its role (drilling to save the day) should not be underestimated. Impulse is too costy at 2CC. If you have a suggestion... Ideally, a 1CC instant that allows me to drill 3-4 cards for an instant or sorcery (a la Peer Through Depths).
I am pleased to see you are playing Stifle, a card I love, but I often found myself busy dropping an elf on turn one and Jenara on turn two, not being able to cast Stifle before turn three (sometimes four). And your opponent will probably have used his fetches on turns one and two (except if he wants to slow play Brainstorm or has a Lotus Cobra). Stifle remains useful after the first few turns, but I tend to prefer having it in decks that keep their mana open on the first few turns like Talrand, Sky Summoner, Vendilion Clique or Wydwen, the Biting Gale.
If stifling a fetchland is the right play against a given deck, I won't hesitate to wait for the fetchland instead of dropping a T1 elf.The tempo I lose will be recovered when I use the Stifle, especially these days, where many players do not play enough lands in their decks. A turn 1/2 Stifle may gain you 2/3 turns in the end. So I tend to play it agressively (unless it's more important to keep it for a specific use in the match-up).
And I find Trickbind overcosted. If you really want to play it, I think it would be better to play Interdict or Squelch. Powerful triggered abilities that make you want to waste 1U and one card aren't that frequent, and you'll probably want to draw a card when you counter your opponent's fetch-land or when you prevent him from equiping his Sword of Feast and Famine.
Trickbind is basically Stifle #2. You're right about the fact that, in the meta, you do not want to counter triggered abilities as much as you want to counter activated abilities, but :
- Some triggered abilities may be worth countering (Zur's for example).
- Stifle / Trickbind are also used in this deck for tricks (such as saving a Geist's token, exiling a target forever with an Oblivion Ring or one-side wrathing with Parallax Wave).
The question is : are these options better than drawing a card ? Options/versatility vs card draw, the eternal question for control players...
I am quite surprised to see you don't play Dryad Arbor. Not only is it good on a turn one Green Sun's Zenith when you have no elf (which can happen a lot of times despite all the accelerators you are playing), it is also very powerful in a deck with three equipments and three equipment tutors. If you get wrathed, you can just crack a Windswept Heath at the end of your opponent's turn and get a Dryad Arbor, so you can equip and bash at your turn. This is a powerful play because Supreme Verdict is hard to play around.
I got it out because outside of the GSZ combo, I don't like to play lands that always come into play tapped. A first-turn elf is something I want to achieve every time I draw one in my opening hand. But your argument about fetching the Dryad post-wrath is very relevant, so maybe it's time to get Dryad in again.
I'm not a huge fan of Venser. At 3CC (even as a 1/1), he would have been incredible, but at 4CC (this deck's top of curve), not so much in my opinion...
"Remanding" a Supreme Verdict just to be wrathed one turn after with one more creature on the board never looked to me like a powerful play. I tend to prefer Venser in decks that take advantage of ETB abilities with bounce / blink.
And for the second use, I'm pretty sure I can find better flash creatures to carry a Sword (e.g. Scryb Ranger).
Anyway, everybody (including the best players) seems to play him in almost all kinds of blue decks, so I may be wrong. Will playtest again.
I don't like Krosan Grip, because Split Second is almost never relevant.
I'm surprised by your opinion, as almost all the dominant decks play blue and counterspells, as well as powerful enchantments and/or artefacts that need to be destroyed without the risk of being countered. If GAA or Geist control resolves Humility, game is over, as they pack far more counterspells than we do, don't they ?
I tend to prefer playing Seal of Primordium or Seal of Cleansing, which have the great advantage of being dropped there for cheaper and preventively, and allowing you to play the way you want while not being forced to keep mana open. Having a Seal on the battlefield means your opponent will have to keep his equipments as dead cards in hand. If you have Krosan Grip, he will wait for the good window to open, play a Sword of Feast and Famine, get advantage out of it, and when you untap and destroy it, you are already down one card and a lot of tempo.
Nice suggestion, even if I try to keep the permanent count as low as possible to keep Runechanter's Spike effective, and I'm always scared of them removing my Seal before they play the enchantment / artefact I really want to take care of. But you're right about the tempo factor, so I will try one (or both) Seals.
These are my suggestions, but I find your version very good already.
My 2 cents,
Emether.
Thanks a lot for your feedback, Emether.
BTW, what do you guys think of including what I name the "white reanimator" package in this deck :
- Runechanter's Spike : not enough instants and sorceries any more for it to stay good.
- Parallax Wave : powerful but slow. However, it may return in the future depending on the meta.
- Negate : too many counterspells (I often need more immediately active cards instead of keeping counters in hand), so, following Emether's advice, I cut the narrowest / most conditional ones
- Mental Misstep : same thing
- Misscalculation : same thing
- Spell Pierce : same thing
- Spell Snare : same thing
- Cryptic Command : very good but too expansive, and UUU is sometimes not so easy to find - may return in the future...
- Trickbind : too narrow, I need room for more efficient cards.
- Ponder : Emether strikes again (its replacement by Impulse was also considered, but CC2 seems too much for the effect).
+ Oust : The deck proved a little light on the removal side. I'm playtesting this one, as well as Journey to Nowhere alternatively.
+ Psionic Blast : same thing, and this one is also good against Planeswalkers.
+ Fiend Hunter : A Journey to Nowhere on a stick, tutorable with GSZ and Eladamri's Call.
+ Cold-Eyed Selkie : Card drawing is tech, especially in a creature's clothes. However, I'm not sold yet, as the card draw is (very) conditional if potentially massive.
+ Aven Mindcensor : With fewer counters, I wanted more disruption. Most decks suffer from this one (fetchlands, tutors, Zur...).
+ Gaddock Teeg : Painful for most control and Wanderer decks, which have to deal with it before being able to wrath the board / play Humility. Still, it may be useless in some match-ups, so I'm not 100% sure for the time being. More playtest required.
+ Harmonic Sliver : All the major decks play rocks, equipements and enchantments. Another tutorable Disenchant (in addition to Qasali Pridemage) is always appreciated.
+ Scryb Ranger : Some more acceleration coupled with tricks. But maybe it's more cute than efficient...
In the end, the average CC is 2.00, which is very satisfying for an aggro-control deck, and the manabase (=W/U/G statistical availability) is as close to perfection as you can get
PS : I haven't found a slot for Sakashima's Student yet, but this card remains under serious consideration. Instead of Rafiq of the Many maybe ?
I'm now confident in most slots, although I can't figure out what would be the best options in a Zur - Geist - GAA - Wanderer meta for some of them :
- I want one more counterspell, to be chosen among the following three : Spell Pierce / Memory Lapse / Negate ? My current choice is Negate, as it counters all the main threats other than Commanders (mainly wraths, Armageddon / Cataclysm and planeswalkers), but not being able to counter Zur or Geist or Ezuri's / Rhys' key-creatures is bothering me... Which one would you choose ?
- I can't make up my mind about the last removal slot : Oust or Condemn or Beast Within or Lignify (Journey to Nowhere was rejected after playtest : too narrow, too fragile) ? Lignify is very good against Zur and GAA but totally useless against Geist or Wanderer, Oust is weak against Commanders but may be used on my own creatures to reuse ETB effects, Condemn is and instant and an acceptable Commander-killer but sometimes looks meh in a world of tutors, and Beast Within, although being the most flexible, is expansive and the 3/3 token, if not an issue, may delay my victory. Any advice ?
- I tried Fiend Hunter as a tutorable removal. It's useful in this role but is really weak as a creature, mainly because of its 1/3 vanilla stats (it would be far better in a Doran deck). I'm thinking of replacing it with Parallax Wave, that never disappointed me but which is nonbo with Gaddock Tegg (a card that I really want to have in my 99, as it's good against almost all the meta). Is this a good or a bad idea ?
But in all cases, I tend to prefer Memory Lapse in a control environment.
A crystal clear and relevant answer to my question. So Memory Lapse it will be.
- Condemn is an extremely bad removal in the current format. Awful.
To be honest, I listed the possible cards from memory and I totally forgot that Condemn, which I haven't played for years, could only target an attacking creature. Conditional removal is bad (especially in Bant colors where you have plenty of good removal available). Whiplash...
- Lignify is useless against Geist of Saint Traft, but I disagree with you about Maelstrom Wanderer: I think it is nice against that commander because it doesn't kill it, so you can prevent your opponent from casting it again and cascading again.
I totally agree with your opinion about Lignify (which is, BTW, also a tribal card, so +1 for Tarmogoyf). Against Wanderer, my point is that it's pretty easy for him to kill a 0/4 (as well as your stuff) with one of its sweepers. But, obviously, forcing an opponent to kill his own commander is priceless.
- Bonus section: most people don't know about Spawnbroker, which has done wonders for me.
Actually, I discovered Spawnbroker in your Mimeo thread and really wanted to include him. I updated my decklist in the first post : what would you take out to make room for him ? And, BTW and as you were enthusiastic about Sakashima's Student, what would you take out to include this one too ? I'm convinced that both cards are very strong in the meta, but most of the cards I play are strong too and, now that I have played many games (40+), it's more and more difficult to take one card out because almost everyone of them was key in one or more of my victories. Everything is now a question of fine-tuning and metagaming.
To conclude on this, IMO Lignify > Oust > Beast Within > Condemn (I speak about your particular deck, not in general). I would rate Spawnbroker somewhere between Lignify and Oust
I would like to include all three cards (I mean, Lignify, Spawnbroker and Oust), as you convinced me, but always the same question : what to take out ?
One thing I like with Fiend Hunter is that your opponent has to choose whether or not he puts his commander into the Command Zone. But it is true that a 1/3 body is clearly weak for 1WW. IMO Parallax Wave is much better.
Forcing your opponent to choose is always good, as it's where mistakes come from. A card like Oust actually forces your opponent to make a similar choice (risk vs paying 2 more for his commander), but it also gives you some tempo advantage which looks stronger than a vanilla 1/3. In the mid to late game, an unequipped Fiend Hunter is useless, and you almost always have a better creature to equip (starting with Jenara). Its sole advantage is that it's tutorable with Eladamri's Call or GSZ any time you desperately need a removal (e.g. when you opponent just cast his Zur).
Emether suggested this also in his first post. Playing both Seals looks too much to me, taking into account all the other solutions already included in the deck. What do you think of replacing Harmonic Sliver with it ? Or would you keep both and take another card out ? Or keep in the sliver and add both Seals ? What if you play against a deck without so much artifact / enchantment ? You're at risk to have many dead cards.
If I were you, I would play both spell snare and spell pierce which are among the best counterspells available. They counter early threats and allow you to play your deck while just having to keep one land open to counter.
True. It's just that if I play a lot of counterspells and a lot of removal, I feel like my threat density decreases too much. The only way to keep everything in would be to cut deck manipulation cards like Brainstorm and Preordain, and/or support cards such as Skullclamp. What's your opinion about such a move ?
Cryptic command might be expensive but on a stalled board it makes you win the game and it's always a two for one. It is so versatile that I think it's a must-in + you don't need to have mana open to make it useful for something.
Cryptic is mainly good as counter+draw against control, but its 4CC seems too high for me (in this tempo deck) against control, risking a tempo loss if it's Spell Pierced for example. On the other hand, against creature decks, tap+bounce/draw may be a game breaker if you have enough pressure on the board to win the turn (after) you tap all his guys. It looks like Cryptic, in this specific format and deck, is sometimes fantastic and sometimes a bit clunky (if versatile). Slots are becoming pricey in this deck (more than in Geist decks, I think), and I can't see a card in the list over which I would like to play Cryptic. I really want to optimize the tempo, aka the efficience / cost ratio of the cards I play.
I would cut delay for instance in your list. It's pure card disadvantage and not always useful.
I'm always satisfied with Delay, as, most of the time, I never see the spell again, making it feel like a 1U counterspell. In which cases do you find it disappointing ?
True, even if its uncounterability (this word exists ?) is precious when you really want to get rid of a game-breaking enchantment. I guess that you would play Seal(s) over it ?
Although Cold-Eyed Selkie is a degenerate card in Rafiq, I'm not sold on it in Jenara. I think it will not draw you as many cards and will not be very resilient. But it's playable.
Actually, this deck originally was a Rafiq of the Many deck (I wanted to switch from a very straightforward aggro to a more versatile and adaptative deck) and the Selkie is here since the origin. Maybe it's time for her to retire and free a slot (for Sakashima's Student or Spawnbroker, as suggested by Emether).
One other thing, you can think of a trinket mage + skullclamp. It's for a more control version of Jenara though.
I always found Trinket Mage too slow, and it's especially true in this deck where tempo is paramount. As a 1/1 for 2, I would have probably played it, but for 3CC, fetching Skullclamp or even Pithing Needle doesn't look strong enough to me.
When you draw 3 from Ancestral Vision, it's obviously very strong. But I like my card-drawing to be immediate, because 4 turns later may be too late (drawing 3 when you're dead is sub-optimal)... Moreover, the opponent has 4 turns to react and prevent you from drawing 3 (Meddling Mage or Memory Lapse come to mind).
Fauna shaman is maybe better than Gaddock in your list + it's a sword bear.
So is Gaddock. My opinion is that Survival of the Fittest (and a fortiori Fauna Shaman) are at their best with some way to use the creatures you discard. Without such synergies, it feels like the slots would be better filled by other cards. That's why I'm considering the whole package or nothing : Survival / Birthing Pod + cards to bring creatures back (Loyal Retainers, Reveillark...). One without the other looks awkward to me.
The problem is that when I compare this white package with what Black cards do in other decks like Doran or Mimeoplasm, it feels like I'm trying to mimic a part of these decks with less overall synergy (and not enough good cards to support this gameplan). I think (but I may be wrong and I'm open to discussion) that a Jenara deck should focus on the main aggro-tempo game plan, instead of trying to play a pseudo-reanimator side theme that would be far less efficient than its black counterpart, even if it may help to win some games more easily.
Parallax Wave is an insane card in your list. There are so many things to do with it. I'm a big fan.
Parallax Wave will get back in, probably replacing Fiend Hunter.
Venser is also a good card. He's expensive and it's tempting to cut it. But I think that he deserves some test. He does unique things in midgame and lategame. (over Rafiq slot maybe)
As I already cut Rafiq, what would you take out to include Venser, Shaper Savant ? Emether already tried to sell it to me and I (not without some difficulty) resisted, but, as everybody seems to be pro-Venser these days, I'm starting to think that I'm blind... I will give it a try. Always the same question : what could I take out ?
Now it is, before all the changes discussed in today's posts. I now must take some time to decide what to get out for the "new" cards. Any suggestion is welcome (Skullclamp ? Harmonic Sliver ? Gaddock Teeg ? Preordain ? Brainstorm ?).
I don't play Jenara, but Geist so don't take what I say as truth. It's just proposals.
There is alot of good advice and ideas here, without repeating every topic, the one card I think that is a must play is spell snare. That card does serious work. When it comes to any counter spell war it hits 90% of the counters in the format, really helpful when trying to resolve Jenara. But I could go on for hours about the number of amazing 2cc spells worth countering but for now I'll keep the list short; bob, goyf, sylvan library, stoneforge, jitte, snapcaster, GftT, oath of druids, ooze, surivial, mana rocks, hymm, and the list goes on.
Also, for what its worth I would definantly be running survival + ionona + loyal retainers. It gives to just absoluting lock out opponents and you the ability to counter spell the few outs they may actually have.
Before giving you any advice, I would like to know what kind of aggro-control do you want to play ?
You can build an aggro control with more disruption and counterspells. You drop a threat and you make it survive until you kill the opponent. A bit like Delver decks in Modern or Legacy. It's a bit like this list from the France championship : http://www.mtgtop8.com/event2?e=3808&d=222699
I think that you want to play a more "tapout" version in which you don't have to keep mana open and in which you run more creatures. A kind of goostuff aggro control a bit more aggro than the previous version with a lot of general disruption.
The last possibility is to run an aggro control version with some "combo" stuff. Like a pod chain with etb creatures. It looks like this : http://www.mtgtop8.com/event2?e=3808&d=222695
Once you really know what you want and prefer, and your gameplan, it will be easier to build.
My idea is to use Olivier Arnold's list (the first one you linked) as a starting point and then add some good creatures that increase the pressure on the opponent (most of the time via some form of disruption). Some of these creatures were in the second deck you linked (Gilded Drake, Gaddock Teeg, Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcensor) or not (Geist of Saint Traft, Sakashima's Student, Spawnbroker). So, although the gameplan is not Delver-like, it remains aggro-control. The deck is indeed more tap-out than the first but it's clearly not an aggro deck.
I chose not to include the Survival / Pod / combos, because I find it underwhelming in a deck which has not a lot of ways to assemble the combo pieces, mainly because 1) of all the goodstuff that is the basis of a Bant deck and that you want / have to include (instead of adding tutors and redundant combo pieces), 2) of the lack of Black that limits the redundancy required for a graveyard combo deck to work properly and consistently (you don't have many discard outlets, you don't have many reanimating effects, and so on) and 3) your pod chain is useless and clunky when you don't have Birthing Pod in play.
Nevertheless, I opened this thread to collect advice, and the best strategy (delver-like, aggro-control, aggro-combo, maybe pure control even if I think that Geist or GAA would be better commanders for this) for a Jenara deck in the current meta is one of the topics I would like to discuss with you all. So, if you think that such or such strategy / gameplan is clearly better than the others, I would be very happy to read your arguments.
If we look at the last French Cup, and although both Jenara decks you linked were in the Top 8 on the Last Chance Qualifier, they (based on the final standings) performed poorly on the second day (the French Cup itself), with none of them in the Top 16. I don't know the reasons behind these bad results, which are surprising because both players are very good and experienced players. Maybe they dropped after Day 1, or maybe something must evolve in the deck design to make it more competitive against the meta.
There is alot of good advice and ideas here, without repeating every topic, the one card I think that is a must play is spell snare. That card does serious work. When it comes to any counter spell war it hits 90% of the counters in the format, really helpful when trying to resolve Jenara. But I could go on for hours about the number of amazing 2cc spells worth countering but for now I'll keep the list short; bob, goyf, sylvan library, stoneforge, jitte, snapcaster, GftT, oath of druids, ooze, surivial, mana rocks, hymm, and the list goes on.
Spell Snare is a very good card, no doubt, and you perfectly explained why. The question is : is it better than another card in the deck that could be taken out ? Or, more accurately, does it fit the deck's gameplan better than another card currently in the list ?
Also, for what its worth I would definantly be running survival + ionona + loyal retainers. It gives to just absoluting lock out opponents and you the ability to counter spell the few outs they may actually have.
If it works, it's indeed game-breaking. But if you're disrupted, or, simply, if you do not draw the cards in the right order (which is frequent, as we only run 3 tutors : Enlightened Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith and Eladamri's Call) ?
If your Survival of the Fittest is countered, what do you do with your Iona, Shield of Emeria in hand ? And what if you draw Loyal Retainers without Survival ? The deck only runs 4 legendary creatures and using Retainers to bring back a dead Gaddock Teeg doesn't look like a dream play to me.
My personal choice for competitive play (but I may be wrong) is always to prefer consistency to brute power. Obviously, in this specific case, you consider that it's worth it, so I would be very intestered to read your explanations if you mind to develop your point.
To finish I think that if you want to play a more agressive deck you can also inspire yourself with Emether's Disruption Doran list. He diminished drastically the number of tutors in order to lose less time and increased the number of CA engines. You can inspire yourself to a certain extent.
I checked Emether's Doran. Most of the CA cards are black so... But some creatures may be of interest for this deck (at least they deserve some consideration) :
Skinshifter : Seems OK, but I'm always reluctant to include cards that need mana to be strong, as most of my free mana is used for 1) counterspells 2) pumping Jenara. But this one appeals me...
Vinelasher Kudzu : I'm surprised that Emether included this one in his Doran list. It's good when played early (but not fantastic because of its lack of evasion), barely playable mid-game and terrible when you topdeck it.
Silverblade Paladin : This one I could play, although Soulbond is a mechanism that makes cards "conditionnaly good" by design and is easily disruptable. The problem is : for 1 more mana, I could play Rafiq of the Many, who's stronger by himself, and I'm not even sure I will...
Serra Avenger : As playing a creature turn 2 is not a priority in Jenara, this card's flaw seems very acceptable. Playing a good creature midgame for 2 only, leaving mana open in the process for counters / pumping / removal is very tempting. She clearly deserves some playtest.
Loxodon Smiter : Heavy striker for 3 but maybe too vanilla for my taste, despite it being counterproof. May come in if a slot appears, if only for playtest...
Fiend Hunter : As I wrote above, good in Doran, average in almost any other deck with better options (ie other than UW/GW).
(One last interrogation that I have is : mana elves are taking a lot of room in Jenara lists. I like them very much in Animar or Doran because we want to play the general on turn 2 most of the time. Here I don't understand that they are auto-in. Mana elves are great but I think that Jenara is more about midrange. Playing mana elves makes me want to run swords/ skullclamp and survival of the fittest at least in order to fully benefit from them and not drawing crappy cards in late game. Just my thinking.)
Maybe i'm playing with words, but, IMHO, Jenara is more aggro-control than midrange (i.e. you want to quickly drop a threat or two, then control). Playing Jenara turn 2 is the right play in some match-ups. And, in any match-up, Jenara is better if you can pump her as much (and as soon) as possible (well, provided you have free mana and are willing to tap lands / elves).
The idea is to include in the deck a couple of ways to recycle / take advantage of the elves in the late game (those you draw as well as those on the board), especially when Jenara is not in play. That's why many players include Skullclamp, Birthing Pod, Survival of the Fittest and/or Ajani, Caller of the Pride in addition to the traditionnal Jitte / Swords / Elspeth package.
You mean I forgot to mention that I added Painter's Servant to my deck ?
Epic fail.
I am quite surprised that when you cast Delay, you win in the next two turns. How can your deck be so fast ?
It's obviously not always the case, but with Jenara and often another beater on the board (say Tarmogoyf), and considering that I do not counter everything but only key spells (ie 3-4 CC), it happened that I could finish my opponent off in short order after having cast Delay midgame.
Man, I urge you to play Venser, not just because the card is good in itself. That's mainly because Venser is good in your specific deck.
I notice you are playing Ajani, Caller of the Pride, which seems the same function as Silverblade Paladin for the same cost (1WW) but less powerful (doesn't attack by itself, double strike usable only once then falls down to 1 counter).
That's so true. I'm going to playtest replacing Ajani with Silverblade Paladin (or maybe I won't play any of them, as damage boost is not key in this deck).
On the other hand, Serra Avenger is probably better in your deck than it is in Doran. The ability to have a turn four "Serra Avenger + Mana Leak" is certainly an awesome play.
It's a card I never thought of (probably because I never played it) and which seems to fit my gameplan perfectly. It's certainly worth a try.
With the assumption that the counterspells already in the list, as well as Preordain, would stay in, what would you take out ?
Some questions are still pending that may help to free (or fill ?) a couple of slots :
1) 11 2CC creatures maybe is too many and I feel that one slot could be freed here : Is Gaddock Teeg strong enough to deserve a slot ? Same thing for Lotus Cobra, which I'm reluctant to cut because, even if we don't need to ramp to 5, it gives us 1 extra mana approximately every other turn. Talking about 2CC creatures, would Grand Abolisher be worth it, being a disrupter ?
2) Does Aven Mindcensor does enough for the deck to keep its slot ? My opinion is yes, especially because of flash, thanks to which we can cast it EOT, i.e. at the best time for a tempo deck. Which leads me to another question : was it the right decision to cut Scryb Ranger ?
3) Most of the creatures in the deck being so strong (elves aside), isn't Spawnbroker becoming too risky (with the consequence that it would stay useless in our hand waiting for a "switchable" creature on our side of the board ) ?
4) Are there enough card drawing engines in the deck ? A tempo deck traditionnaly needs to play more spells to win than any other deck type, which implies that we would need to draw more cards. Ancestral Vision is good in this context but without Skullclamp and Cold-Eyed Selkie, don't we need a couple of draw spells ?
5) Parallax Tide seems interesting as a 1-sided Armageddon, especially with the Seals and Stifle. As a 4CC sorcery needs, in this format, to be game-breaking to be playable, I would tend not to include it, but what's your opinion on this card for this deck ?
6) Cryptic Command was taken out somewhere in the process, but considering the more and more tempo build of the deck, wouldn't it be a strong inclusion ?
I'm going to playtest this decklist for a week or so (IRL and Cockatrice), and will then come back with more information.
In the meantime, any advice is still welcome, especially regarding the best strategy for some match-ups that I've still to play : Animar and 5C (Horde of Notions) combo(s).
Against 5CCombo, it depends highly on what combos are played and how the deck is built. Hard to tell without the decklist. But it's too bad you don't play Cataclysm.
IMO Ulvenwald Tracker is even better in Jenara than it is in Doran. You can't use it with Doran, but with Jenara you can shoot loads of creatures.
Maybe I will try Ulvenwald Tracker instead of Miscalculation which looks like the most "cuttable" card currently in the deck. Also, Serra Avenger is good but not overwhelming, so I'm gonna re-include Skullclamp instead, for additional card draw and anti-wrath protection.
Regarding Cataclysm, and even if I'm not sure you suggested it for the deck or only made a general remark, my opinion is that it's not as good here as in Geist for example, as Jenara (and most other threats in the deck) are not resilient enough to close the game post-Cataclysm. A Swords to Plowhares, a Dismember or anything on my threat and I would have a very hard time rebuilding the pressure. Also, Jenara is very mana consuming, and if I keep her post-Cataclysm, I won't have elves any more to fuel her, and I don't play (nor want to) rocks.
As it's only a very quick and dirty analysis, I would be very interested in your opinion about the card in this specific deck.
Over the last two months of playtest (competitive play only), I was disappointed by some cards that I progressively decided to get out :
First, the sorcery-speed removals, Oust and Lignify. Almost everything I wanted to remove could do something strong before I can play one of these cards. Although Lignify was strong in some match-ups, it was useless in most and bad sometimes (when a 0/4 blocker prevents me from bashing my opponent efficiently).
Fauna Shaman was too slow for my taste, and most of the time I had no creature in hand that I wanted to pitch (= the creature in my hand looked at least as important as the one I would have searched for, or I had none).
Geist of Saint Traft is an awesome card, but it needs to be equipped to really shine. This is an issue, as our first priority when we have an equipement on the board is to equip Jenara. For the time being, it was excluded (as well as Mirran Crusader, for the same reason). Additionally, my feeling is that Geist is far better as a Commander, as you can, in this case, complement it and enhance its intrinsic power with many game-breaking spells that aren't playable in Jenara, such as Cataclysm, Armageddon or even Supreme Verdict.
Spawnbroker was overall disappointing. We don't play enough creatures to be able to use it properly and when it would be decisive. Too many times I was stuck with it in the hand, hoping it was something more useful. My opinion is that at least 30-35 creatures, with all the scope of power values, are required for Spawnbroker to be at its full potential.
Venser, Shaper Savant : For 4 mana, I want spells that close the game when I'm ahead and and that help me to recover when I'm behind (e.g. Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Elspeth, Knight Errant). Venser, despite being a solid option, is not such a card. So, when I need room to test something new, it's one of the first cards that get out. Same thing (to a lesser extent) for Parallax Wave, mainly because we can't use it to protect Jenara efficiently.
Delay : Card disadvantage + no real tempo gain (compared to Memory Lapse or Remand) = out. I could come back if I, at some point in the future, I decide to play 16+ counterspells (which is highly unprobable).
Seal of Cleansing and Seal of Primordium : I'm currently testing other cards in these slots. They may come back or not depending on the test results and on the meta.
On the other hand, I tested many cards, that I hoped were more integral to our game plan. Most of them were far from good (in this deck), but a couple really shined :
Chrome Mox : My experience with this deck a T2 Jenara is such an incredible advantage in almost all matchups that we want her to hit the board as soon as possible, at almost any price. Actually, what we want is to be able to drop Jenara T2, even if we finally choose not to. That's why, following a suggestion by an eminent Jenara player, two additional ways of casting her T2 were added to the list, in the form of Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox. The card disadvantage is mitigated by the possibility it gives to play Jenara on T2 and again on T4 (or T3) if necessary, which is often too much for most opponents. Also, being able to Stifle a fetchland or to Force Spike / Mana Tithe something T1, then play Jenara T2 (something you can't do with a mana elf) is a very good way to start a game. I chose not to replace lands with Moxen, because Jenara is very mana-hungry, so there is no such thing as too much mana here. You always want to have the biggest, meanest dude on the board.
EDIT : Testing evidenced that Mox Diamond is bad in this deck, because you never want to discard a land and, consequently, risk to miss a land drop. So, it's out. On the contrary, Mox Chrome looks like a nice addition to the deck, providing speed for the price of a card that you can wisely choose depending on the match-up, although you always at risk of the Mox to be bounced by your opponent... One nice thing is that you're not forced to play it on turn 1 (unlike the mana dorks), which allows you to keep mana open for Force Spike, Mana Tithe, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce or Stifle, especially when you're on the draw.
Saffi Eriksdotter : Protecting Jenara, and, more generally, managing to keep a clock on the board, is one of the main stakes of the deck (as in any tempo deck). Saffi does it very well, and although it's useless against exiling effects, it protects Jenara from anything else including Supreme Verdict. A very nice complement to Mother of Runes. A nice bonus is the Saffi / Skullclamp / X/1 creature combo, that allows you to draw 6 cards for the cost of two minor creatures, which is a very nice late game option.
Silverblade Paladin : The main game plan being "equip a beater and proceed to win", double striking is a natural addition. I'm always happy when I draw it. Protecting Jenara for many turns is very difficult, so halving the number of turns you have to resist is good news. Also, a pair of double striking defenders is very comfortable in the aggro matchups. Double strike is so good in this deck that Rafiq of the Many may come back in the list if I manage to convince myself that its CMC and relative defensive weakness are not enough to keep it out (especially because it's tutorable with Green Sun's Zenith, something that is not true for Silverblade Paladin).
Currently testing :
Trinket Mage + Pithing Needle : There's always a good target for a Needle, and sometimes one that really hinders your opponent's game plan (Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Survival of the Fittest and so on). Too bad it's not legendary, as Needle is very strong against Jenara too... BTW, a virtual second Skullclamp in the form of the Mage is very appealing, consider how strong the card is in this deck.
Negate : Never a dead card. Protects Jenara. Counters game-breaking spells (such as Natural Order, Show and Tell, Armageddon, Cataclysm...). This deck has several solutions against permanents, but relies on its counterspells to block the unfair spells that are the trademark of Commander. So, Negate is an additional way to protect yourself from losing games, which is not something to be underestimated. In balance with Trickbind, aka Stifle #2, though, which is also never useless and works well in the early game mana denial subplan.
I will update ASAP the opening post according to these changes, slightly revising the mana base as well.
Your arguments are solid and your decklist is more accurate.
With the victory of Jenara in Saint Nazaire, I will work on building a tempo Jenara (with more creatures than Olivier's list). I will post here to share what i find.
When I have more experience with it I will discuss more.
(the better the version, the harder it becomes to get good advice )
Olivier is a fantastic player, and he says that his St Nazaire version is the closest to perfection for him (which is not to be underestimated, as he's been playing Jenara in competitive environments for more than 3 years). He's got very strong convicitons and his card choices fit his playstyle very well.
I'm an average player, but based on my 19-year magic experience, what I'm sure of is that my playstyle (=the way I like to play, or, more accurately, the way I like to win games) is more aggro / creature-driven. Olivier's version includes too much counters for my taste, especially ones that I consider subpar (e.g. Delay is pure card disadvantage at least 50% of the time). Olivier also includes some pet cards of him, for which I don't share his love (Trickbind, Trinket Mage, Venser, Shaper Savant) : they're not bad, obviously, but I prefer to use these slots differently and I wouldn't feel comfortable with them in my deck.
So, I would be very happy to see your list and discuss it. I'm currently testing a slightly more aggressive version of my list, which includes Rafiq of the Many, Mirran Crusader and Serra Avenger, as well as something like 10-12 counters (instead of 15 in Olivier's version). It aims at closing games faster once you're able to stick Jenara or another beater on the board. It also includes more "replacement" options when Jenara has been countered / removed 2-3 times and you don't have the mana to pay for her. In Olivier's version, he only chose Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary and Vendilion Clique to act as secondary beaters, which doesn't feel enough to me (although - obviously - it worked very well for him).
Trinket Mage + Pithing Needle + Skullclamp:
I dislike Trinket Mage on Needle, because it costs 4 mana and the body is underwhelming. I used it rarely to tutor up Needle...and if I did, I needed to play Needle the next turn, because of mana problems. 2 Turns for a solution seems really slow to me.
Skullclamp can do a nice job in the lategame, clamping our mana-elves away for Card-Advantage. But I rather used them to chumpblock and casting/pumping my Jenara. I never felt like I was flooded all the way. Also, clamping our Jenara just gives her +1 Power and we never get to draw 2 cards off from her.
Pithing Needle is a strong reactive card, especially against planeswalkers, Swords, Survival of the Fittest or Maze of Ith (a card that is pretty annoying for us). However, I wouldn't include it without Trinket Mage (especially now that I don't play Enlightened Tutor anymore).
The Trinket Mage / Needle package is something that I personaly don't like (4CC total, better creatures at 3CC), but which is not intrinsically a bad option, notably if you're ready to add more tools to your toolbox (typically Relic of Progenitus against Mimeoplasm and Karador decks, both boosted by the ban of Humility).
My current choice is not to include it, but it's more a matter of taste and feeling than anything else. I prefer to deal with the same opposing cards using other solutions (disenchant effects, Wasteland/Tectonic Edge, counters / creatures against planeswalkers).
About Skullclamp : this is probably one of the best cards in the deck. In the early game, you just have to clamp your (non-Jenara) threat to force your opponent to choose between losing life points or allowing you to draw cards. Actually, the more threatening creatures you play in your list, the most powerful Skullclamp becomes. Drawing more cards obviously increases your options but, mainly, prevents you from missing land drops (even after turn 5), something which is precious for Jenara. Late game, clamping your mana dorks is something that you will only want to do when you urgently need to draw a solution to a specific problem. If you play Saffi Eriksdotter, drawing 4 or 6 cards (depending on you wanting you keep your mana dork alive or not) is - almost always - game-breaking.
4 mana creatures:
I played Mystic Snake and wassn't impressed.
Now I try Rafiq in this slot, because it usually wins the game imidiatly with Jenara.
What's your thoughts about cc4 creatures? Do you play any at all?
My opinion is that Mystic Snake isn't a good card in a deck that can't abuse it with repeatable bounce / blink effects. Unless your Jenara build is very blink-oriented, a 4CC counter attached to a 2/2 body is not enough to deserve a slot.
Here is my list of playable 4CC creatures. My choice current choice is not to play any, but I tried all of them.
Venser, Shaper Savant : Like I wrote before, my feeling is that this card certainly rewards skill and good timing, but remains overcosted for its effect. Basically, it's a Boomerang for UU and a 2/2 flash creature for 1U. It's not what I call a bargain. Moreover, I don't like to play bounce effects unless I'm forced to do so (e.g. in Talrand or in Clique decks), as bounce = card disadvantage unless the situation allows you to use it as a trick, a requirement that makes it to conditional for my taste. The only match-up in which I sometimes regret Venser is Skullbriar, the Walking Grave.
Thrun, the last troll : Heavy and resilient beater, good in the current meta full of counterspells (and a bane against mono-U decks). But its real CC is 6 (including GGG), because, most of the time, you won't play it unless you can protect it from wrath effects. Its lack of evasion is a weakness, too.
Rafiq of the Many : Very good synergy with Jenara and an incredible threat by itself, especially on an empty board. Its weakness may be that it's a bad defender for its mana cost. Nevertheless, it goes in and out of my list on a regular basis.
Sower of Temptation : control magic on a (flying) stick. I love this card, and I'm always tempted to include it in my deck, especially to steal opposing Commanders. Its weakness is its fragility : paying 4 for it to be killed in response is frustrating, let alone it being killed in response of one of your attacks, giving a blocker back to your opponent. The fact that it targets (and, hence, can't steal Geist of Saint Traft) is a bad point too.
Glen Elendra Archmage : The best of all, able to protect Jenara by itself until the game is over. The only reason why I don't play it is that it's a 5CC creature, as you need to keep (at least) one U mana opened to use it the turn it comes into play.
Beyond all these specific comments, the main reason why I don't play 4CC creatures is that, in Jenara, you always want to have spare mana at the end of you opponent's turn to boost Jenara. So, you want to keep your average CC as low as possible, using very cost-efficient cards to both deal with what your opponent is doing and to put threats on the board. Actually, if they were not so strong by themselves, I probably wouldn't play Elspeth, Knight Errant, nor Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Pump-Spells
I'm trying Simic Charm and Rancor, along with Sword of F/I & F/F, Jitte and Elspeth (also Hierarch and Pridemage for exalted).
If I get a Berser, I will try it as well, making Jenara more of a "I can go all in".dec
I like Simic Charm, because it also gives hexproof, can bounce opposing creatures (I don't like Animar on the table ).
Rancor gives trample and constant +2 power.
Berserk would be an alpha-strike, but also a removal for opposing creatures.
Did any of you made some experience with it?
I woudn't include spells that only boost creatures. Jenara, unless you opt for a totally different build, is not an aggro deck. You have to use cards that serve your gameplan, which basically is : drop a threat, equip it if you can, then protect it until you win, preventing by the way your opponent to win the game before you do. Any card in your list that is not here to help you achieve some part of this game plan should be replaced by another one that does.
So I probably never will play cards like Rancor or, worst, Berserk (using it as a back-up removal sounds more like a Z-plan than anything else to me).
Swords and Jitte are integral to the game plan and provide card advantage, so they're no-brainers for me.
Elspeth, Knight Errant is very strong, providing a repeatable +3/+3 flying as well as "sword bearers" when needed (e.g. post-wrath). Nevertheless, it's as close to an aggro card as you can go in this deck, so, depending on your playstyle, you may want to replace it with a more defensive / reactive option.
I have not tested Simic Charm yet. Its versatility is the only reason why I would consider it, as I already explained why I despise pure boost and bounce effects in this deck. The global Turn Aside effect is more interesting, but, still, I can't find a card in my list that I would accept to get out in order to make room for this charm. A good card, not an excellent one. With all the powerful options available to us in Bant colors, this one doesn't look like it would make the cut.
Maybe this has been brought up already, and honestly the setback in tempo for equips and stuff might not be worth it but would Kira be an option for protection? Makes all your guys need 2 shots to get rid of in order to be bounced or hit with targeted removal.
Maybe this has been brought up already, and honestly the setback in tempo for equips and stuff might not be worth it but would Kira be an option for protection? Makes all your guys need 2 shots to get rid of in order to be bounced or hit with targeted removal.
Kira certainly is a strong card but the "equip" and the "skullclamp for CA" plans being central to this build, I prefer not to play it. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be a nice addition to a build less focused on equipments.
I've been playing marath but he has fallen out if favor lately. I'm now playing Animar which the deck is nuts but I wanted to try the winning Jenara list. Lmk how it goes!
I've been playing it all day against the gauntlet and it has potential against everything it seems. We sill havnt tried hard oluro control though. That's next....
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Although I have / had a lot of fun with Jenara Enchantress and Jenara ETB/blink versions, this thread is about the more classical aggro-control build only, which is considered as the most competitive, as evidenced by the results of multiple major tournaments over the past couple of years. It's based on Legacy Bant decks more than anything else.
Now that the scope of this thread is clarified, here is my current decklist for reference :
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Mystic Gate
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Brushland
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Mother of Runes
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Gilded Drake
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Eternal Witness
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trinket Mage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Skullclamp
1 Mox Diamond
1 Pithing Needle
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Counterspell
1 Force of Will
1 Spell Snare
1 Negate
1 Mana Leak
1 Spell Pierce
1 Force Spike
1 Mana Tithe
1 Daze
1 Memory Lapse
1 Remand
1 Stifle
1 Bant Charm
1 Nature's Claim
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Psionic Blast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Steelshaper's Gift
So, to kick the thread off :
How to improve the Zur, GAA and Geist of Saint Traft match-ups, the latest being by far the most represented deck in my meta ?
Thanks for your welcome, even if we already "met" in your Mimeo thread, where you retained some of my suggestions.
Fair enough. The reason why the ninja often goes in and out is that in some match-ups, it's difficult to keep creatures alive on the board (other than Jenara that I don't want to bounce) or to dodge my opponent's creatures (my creature count being pretty low and most of them lacking any form of evasion).
You write that a lot of counterspells and disenchant effects are what makes the difference against Geist. That's my opinion too, so I'm actually thinking about increasing the number of disenchant effects, as disenchants are rarely dead cards in the current meta (full of Zur / rocks / equipements / Oath of Druids / Survival of the Fittest / Humility). What's your opinion ?
I always feel safer with more counterspells I love the feeling that, if I choose correctly the spells to counter, I can stop any game plan and win any game. But maybe it's too much this time. You would play less counterspells but more removal (Journey to Nowhere, Oust, Path to Exile maybe, even if I don't like it much) ? What I want to avoid is to become too removal-heavy and, as a result, to have too many dead cards in the GAA match-up. Maybe the clone way is the right one, replacing Misstep with Sakashima's Student ?
Mental Misstep is actually a dead card against Wanderer, but it's useful in almost all the other matchups against tutors (especially Enlightened Tutor and Steelshaper's Gift, that I want to counter when I have no disenchant in hand), Animar's first turn, a lot of spot removals, Griselbrand / Mimeo first turn discard... But maybe it doesn't do enough to deserve a slot. Still not sure.
What about Daze ? I can't decide if I like it or not in this deck, as the tempo loss is an issue here, and playing it for 2 sometimes looks weak. Also, good players tend to play around it most of the time, at least for their key spells.
The deck plays no real game breaker (excepted the planewalkers and Parallax Wave), but finding a solution often makes the difference between a win and a loss. Ponder may look subpar as a card but its role (drilling to save the day) should not be underestimated. Impulse is too costy at 2CC. If you have a suggestion... Ideally, a 1CC instant that allows me to drill 3-4 cards for an instant or sorcery (a la Peer Through Depths).
If stifling a fetchland is the right play against a given deck, I won't hesitate to wait for the fetchland instead of dropping a T1 elf.The tempo I lose will be recovered when I use the Stifle, especially these days, where many players do not play enough lands in their decks. A turn 1/2 Stifle may gain you 2/3 turns in the end. So I tend to play it agressively (unless it's more important to keep it for a specific use in the match-up).
Trickbind is basically Stifle #2. You're right about the fact that, in the meta, you do not want to counter triggered abilities as much as you want to counter activated abilities, but :
- Some triggered abilities may be worth countering (Zur's for example).
- Stifle / Trickbind are also used in this deck for tricks (such as saving a Geist's token, exiling a target forever with an Oblivion Ring or one-side wrathing with Parallax Wave).
The question is : are these options better than drawing a card ? Options/versatility vs card draw, the eternal question for control players...
I got it out because outside of the GSZ combo, I don't like to play lands that always come into play tapped. A first-turn elf is something I want to achieve every time I draw one in my opening hand. But your argument about fetching the Dryad post-wrath is very relevant, so maybe it's time to get Dryad in again.
I'm not a huge fan of Venser. At 3CC (even as a 1/1), he would have been incredible, but at 4CC (this deck's top of curve), not so much in my opinion...
"Remanding" a Supreme Verdict just to be wrathed one turn after with one more creature on the board never looked to me like a powerful play. I tend to prefer Venser in decks that take advantage of ETB abilities with bounce / blink.
And for the second use, I'm pretty sure I can find better flash creatures to carry a Sword (e.g. Scryb Ranger).
Anyway, everybody (including the best players) seems to play him in almost all kinds of blue decks, so I may be wrong. Will playtest again.
I'm surprised by your opinion, as almost all the dominant decks play blue and counterspells, as well as powerful enchantments and/or artefacts that need to be destroyed without the risk of being countered. If GAA or Geist control resolves Humility, game is over, as they pack far more counterspells than we do, don't they ?
Nice suggestion, even if I try to keep the permanent count as low as possible to keep Runechanter's Spike effective, and I'm always scared of them removing my Seal before they play the enchantment / artefact I really want to take care of. But you're right about the tempo factor, so I will try one (or both) Seals.
Thanks a lot for your feedback, Emether.
BTW, what do you guys think of including what I name the "white reanimator" package in this deck :
Venser, Shaper Savant (pod chain)
Reveillark (pod chain)
Sun Titan (pod chain)
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (pod chain + Loyal Retainers target)
Natural Order + Terastodon (optional)
This option seems powerful but maybe less reliable and elegant than the classical build.
- Runechanter's Spike : not enough instants and sorceries any more for it to stay good.
- Parallax Wave : powerful but slow. However, it may return in the future depending on the meta.
- Negate : too many counterspells (I often need more immediately active cards instead of keeping counters in hand), so, following Emether's advice, I cut the narrowest / most conditional ones
- Mental Misstep : same thing
- Misscalculation : same thing
- Spell Pierce : same thing
- Spell Snare : same thing
- Cryptic Command : very good but too expansive, and UUU is sometimes not so easy to find - may return in the future...
- Trickbind : too narrow, I need room for more efficient cards.
- Ponder : Emether strikes again (its replacement by Impulse was also considered, but CC2 seems too much for the effect).
+ Dryad Arbor : mainly for the combos with Green Sun's Zenith and Scryb Ranger.
+ Ajani, Caller of the Pride : I need more punch to close games faster.
+ Oust : The deck proved a little light on the removal side. I'm playtesting this one, as well as Journey to Nowhere alternatively.
+ Psionic Blast : same thing, and this one is also good against Planeswalkers.
+ Fiend Hunter : A Journey to Nowhere on a stick, tutorable with GSZ and Eladamri's Call.
+ Cold-Eyed Selkie : Card drawing is tech, especially in a creature's clothes. However, I'm not sold yet, as the card draw is (very) conditional if potentially massive.
+ Aven Mindcensor : With fewer counters, I wanted more disruption. Most decks suffer from this one (fetchlands, tutors, Zur...).
+ Gaddock Teeg : Painful for most control and Wanderer decks, which have to deal with it before being able to wrath the board / play Humility. Still, it may be useless in some match-ups, so I'm not 100% sure for the time being. More playtest required.
+ Harmonic Sliver : All the major decks play rocks, equipements and enchantments. Another tutorable Disenchant (in addition to Qasali Pridemage) is always appreciated.
+ Scryb Ranger : Some more acceleration coupled with tricks. But maybe it's more cute than efficient...
I also replaced Razorverge Thicket and Seachrome Coast with Nimbus Maze and Horizon Canopy, which should come into play untapped more often and, for Horizon Canopy, adds an ability which may prove useful in the mid to late game.
In the end, the average CC is 2.00, which is very satisfying for an aggro-control deck, and the manabase (=W/U/G statistical availability) is as close to perfection as you can get
PS : I haven't found a slot for Sakashima's Student yet, but this card remains under serious consideration. Instead of Rafiq of the Many maybe ?
I'm now confident in most slots, although I can't figure out what would be the best options in a Zur - Geist - GAA - Wanderer meta for some of them :
- I want one more counterspell, to be chosen among the following three : Spell Pierce / Memory Lapse / Negate ? My current choice is Negate, as it counters all the main threats other than Commanders (mainly wraths, Armageddon / Cataclysm and planeswalkers), but not being able to counter Zur or Geist or Ezuri's / Rhys' key-creatures is bothering me... Which one would you choose ?
- I can't make up my mind about the last removal slot : Oust or Condemn or Beast Within or Lignify (Journey to Nowhere was rejected after playtest : too narrow, too fragile) ? Lignify is very good against Zur and GAA but totally useless against Geist or Wanderer, Oust is weak against Commanders but may be used on my own creatures to reuse ETB effects, Condemn is and instant and an acceptable Commander-killer but sometimes looks meh in a world of tutors, and Beast Within, although being the most flexible, is expansive and the 3/3 token, if not an issue, may delay my victory. Any advice ?
- I tried Fiend Hunter as a tutorable removal. It's useful in this role but is really weak as a creature, mainly because of its 1/3 vanilla stats (it would be far better in a Doran deck). I'm thinking of replacing it with Parallax Wave, that never disappointed me but which is nonbo with Gaddock Tegg (a card that I really want to have in my 99, as it's good against almost all the meta). Is this a good or a bad idea ?
A crystal clear and relevant answer to my question. So Memory Lapse it will be.
To be honest, I listed the possible cards from memory and I totally forgot that Condemn, which I haven't played for years, could only target an attacking creature. Conditional removal is bad (especially in Bant colors where you have plenty of good removal available). Whiplash...
I totally agree with your opinion about Lignify (which is, BTW, also a tribal card, so +1 for Tarmogoyf). Against Wanderer, my point is that it's pretty easy for him to kill a 0/4 (as well as your stuff) with one of its sweepers. But, obviously, forcing an opponent to kill his own commander is priceless.
Actually, I discovered Spawnbroker in your Mimeo thread and really wanted to include him. I updated my decklist in the first post : what would you take out to make room for him ? And, BTW and as you were enthusiastic about Sakashima's Student, what would you take out to include this one too ? I'm convinced that both cards are very strong in the meta, but most of the cards I play are strong too and, now that I have played many games (40+), it's more and more difficult to take one card out because almost everyone of them was key in one or more of my victories. Everything is now a question of fine-tuning and metagaming.
I would like to include all three cards (I mean, Lignify, Spawnbroker and Oust), as you convinced me, but always the same question : what to take out ?
Forcing your opponent to choose is always good, as it's where mistakes come from. A card like Oust actually forces your opponent to make a similar choice (risk vs paying 2 more for his commander), but it also gives you some tempo advantage which looks stronger than a vanilla 1/3. In the mid to late game, an unequipped Fiend Hunter is useless, and you almost always have a better creature to equip (starting with Jenara). Its sole advantage is that it's tutorable with Eladamri's Call or GSZ any time you desperately need a removal (e.g. when you opponent just cast his Zur).
I looks like the anwser is obvious to everyone but me (which is good news, as I had a hard time making up my mind). Thank you Anthares.
So, Lignify and Oust will be in. What would you take out ?
Emether suggested this also in his first post. Playing both Seals looks too much to me, taking into account all the other solutions already included in the deck. What do you think of replacing Harmonic Sliver with it ? Or would you keep both and take another card out ? Or keep in the sliver and add both Seals ? What if you play against a deck without so much artifact / enchantment ? You're at risk to have many dead cards.
True. It's just that if I play a lot of counterspells and a lot of removal, I feel like my threat density decreases too much. The only way to keep everything in would be to cut deck manipulation cards like Brainstorm and Preordain, and/or support cards such as Skullclamp. What's your opinion about such a move ?
Cryptic is mainly good as counter+draw against control, but its 4CC seems too high for me (in this tempo deck) against control, risking a tempo loss if it's Spell Pierced for example. On the other hand, against creature decks, tap+bounce/draw may be a game breaker if you have enough pressure on the board to win the turn (after) you tap all his guys. It looks like Cryptic, in this specific format and deck, is sometimes fantastic and sometimes a bit clunky (if versatile). Slots are becoming pricey in this deck (more than in Geist decks, I think), and I can't see a card in the list over which I would like to play Cryptic. I really want to optimize the tempo, aka the efficience / cost ratio of the cards I play.
I'm always satisfied with Delay, as, most of the time, I never see the spell again, making it feel like a 1U counterspell. In which cases do you find it disappointing ?
True, even if its uncounterability (this word exists ?) is precious when you really want to get rid of a game-breaking enchantment. I guess that you would play Seal(s) over it ?
Actually, this deck originally was a Rafiq of the Many deck (I wanted to switch from a very straightforward aggro to a more versatile and adaptative deck) and the Selkie is here since the origin. Maybe it's time for her to retire and free a slot (for Sakashima's Student or Spawnbroker, as suggested by Emether).
I always found Trinket Mage too slow, and it's especially true in this deck where tempo is paramount. As a 1/1 for 2, I would have probably played it, but for 3CC, fetching Skullclamp or even Pithing Needle doesn't look strong enough to me.
When you draw 3 from Ancestral Vision, it's obviously very strong. But I like my card-drawing to be immediate, because 4 turns later may be too late (drawing 3 when you're dead is sub-optimal)... Moreover, the opponent has 4 turns to react and prevent you from drawing 3 (Meddling Mage or Memory Lapse come to mind).
So is Gaddock. My opinion is that Survival of the Fittest (and a fortiori Fauna Shaman) are at their best with some way to use the creatures you discard. Without such synergies, it feels like the slots would be better filled by other cards. That's why I'm considering the whole package or nothing : Survival / Birthing Pod + cards to bring creatures back (Loyal Retainers, Reveillark...). One without the other looks awkward to me.
The problem is that when I compare this white package with what Black cards do in other decks like Doran or Mimeoplasm, it feels like I'm trying to mimic a part of these decks with less overall synergy (and not enough good cards to support this gameplan). I think (but I may be wrong and I'm open to discussion) that a Jenara deck should focus on the main aggro-tempo game plan, instead of trying to play a pseudo-reanimator side theme that would be far less efficient than its black counterpart, even if it may help to win some games more easily.
Parallax Wave will get back in, probably replacing Fiend Hunter.
As I already cut Rafiq, what would you take out to include Venser, Shaper Savant ? Emether already tried to sell it to me and I (not without some difficulty) resisted, but, as everybody seems to be pro-Venser these days, I'm starting to think that I'm blind... I will give it a try. Always the same question : what could I take out ?
BTW, talking about 4CC, would you play Sower of Temptation, Thrun, the Last Troll and/or Glen Elendra Archmage ? Do you guys think that they're strong enough to deserve a (precious) 4CC slot ?
Now it is, before all the changes discussed in today's posts. I now must take some time to decide what to get out for the "new" cards. Any suggestion is welcome (Skullclamp ? Harmonic Sliver ? Gaddock Teeg ? Preordain ? Brainstorm ?).
Your enemy is the one that knows you best
Also, for what its worth I would definantly be running survival + ionona + loyal retainers. It gives to just absoluting lock out opponents and you the ability to counter spell the few outs they may actually have.
My idea is to use Olivier Arnold's list (the first one you linked) as a starting point and then add some good creatures that increase the pressure on the opponent (most of the time via some form of disruption). Some of these creatures were in the second deck you linked (Gilded Drake, Gaddock Teeg, Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcensor) or not (Geist of Saint Traft, Sakashima's Student, Spawnbroker). So, although the gameplan is not Delver-like, it remains aggro-control. The deck is indeed more tap-out than the first but it's clearly not an aggro deck.
I chose not to include the Survival / Pod / combos, because I find it underwhelming in a deck which has not a lot of ways to assemble the combo pieces, mainly because 1) of all the goodstuff that is the basis of a Bant deck and that you want / have to include (instead of adding tutors and redundant combo pieces), 2) of the lack of Black that limits the redundancy required for a graveyard combo deck to work properly and consistently (you don't have many discard outlets, you don't have many reanimating effects, and so on) and 3) your pod chain is useless and clunky when you don't have Birthing Pod in play.
Nevertheless, I opened this thread to collect advice, and the best strategy (delver-like, aggro-control, aggro-combo, maybe pure control even if I think that Geist or GAA would be better commanders for this) for a Jenara deck in the current meta is one of the topics I would like to discuss with you all. So, if you think that such or such strategy / gameplan is clearly better than the others, I would be very happy to read your arguments.
If we look at the last French Cup, and although both Jenara decks you linked were in the Top 8 on the Last Chance Qualifier, they (based on the final standings) performed poorly on the second day (the French Cup itself), with none of them in the Top 16. I don't know the reasons behind these bad results, which are surprising because both players are very good and experienced players. Maybe they dropped after Day 1, or maybe something must evolve in the deck design to make it more competitive against the meta.
Spell Snare is a very good card, no doubt, and you perfectly explained why. The question is : is it better than another card in the deck that could be taken out ? Or, more accurately, does it fit the deck's gameplan better than another card currently in the list ?
If it works, it's indeed game-breaking. But if you're disrupted, or, simply, if you do not draw the cards in the right order (which is frequent, as we only run 3 tutors : Enlightened Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith and Eladamri's Call) ?
If your Survival of the Fittest is countered, what do you do with your Iona, Shield of Emeria in hand ? And what if you draw Loyal Retainers without Survival ? The deck only runs 4 legendary creatures and using Retainers to bring back a dead Gaddock Teeg doesn't look like a dream play to me.
My personal choice for competitive play (but I may be wrong) is always to prefer consistency to brute power. Obviously, in this specific case, you consider that it's worth it, so I would be very intestered to read your explanations if you mind to develop your point.
I checked Emether's Doran. Most of the CA cards are black so... But some creatures may be of interest for this deck (at least they deserve some consideration) :
Skinshifter : Seems OK, but I'm always reluctant to include cards that need mana to be strong, as most of my free mana is used for 1) counterspells 2) pumping Jenara. But this one appeals me...
Vinelasher Kudzu : I'm surprised that Emether included this one in his Doran list. It's good when played early (but not fantastic because of its lack of evasion), barely playable mid-game and terrible when you topdeck it.
Silverblade Paladin : This one I could play, although Soulbond is a mechanism that makes cards "conditionnaly good" by design and is easily disruptable. The problem is : for 1 more mana, I could play Rafiq of the Many, who's stronger by himself, and I'm not even sure I will...
Serra Avenger : As playing a creature turn 2 is not a priority in Jenara, this card's flaw seems very acceptable. Playing a good creature midgame for 2 only, leaving mana open in the process for counters / pumping / removal is very tempting. She clearly deserves some playtest.
Loxodon Smiter : Heavy striker for 3 but maybe too vanilla for my taste, despite it being counterproof. May come in if a slot appears, if only for playtest...
Ohran Viper : I'm not even sure to play the superior Cold-Eyed Selkie, so...
Fiend Hunter : As I wrote above, good in Doran, average in almost any other deck with better options (ie other than UW/GW).
Maybe i'm playing with words, but, IMHO, Jenara is more aggro-control than midrange (i.e. you want to quickly drop a threat or two, then control). Playing Jenara turn 2 is the right play in some match-ups. And, in any match-up, Jenara is better if you can pump her as much (and as soon) as possible (well, provided you have free mana and are willing to tap lands / elves).
The idea is to include in the deck a couple of ways to recycle / take advantage of the elves in the late game (those you draw as well as those on the board), especially when Jenara is not in play. That's why many players include Skullclamp, Birthing Pod, Survival of the Fittest and/or Ajani, Caller of the Pride in addition to the traditionnal Jitte / Swords / Elspeth package.
You mean I forgot to mention that I added Painter's Servant to my deck ?
Epic fail.
It's obviously not always the case, but with Jenara and often another beater on the board (say Tarmogoyf), and considering that I do not counter everything but only key spells (ie 3-4 CC), it happened that I could finish my opponent off in short order after having cast Delay midgame.
Stop the beating, you won
I will give its chance to Fauna Shaman.
That's so true. I'm going to playtest replacing Ajani with Silverblade Paladin (or maybe I won't play any of them, as damage boost is not key in this deck).
It's a card I never thought of (probably because I never played it) and which seems to fit my gameplan perfectly. It's certainly worth a try.
So, let's sum-up the upcoming changes :
OUT
IN
If I find some slots, I would like to include :
Silverblade Paladin (over Gaddock Teeg ?)
Meddling Mage (silver bullet against some decks - Ezuri, Animar / over a mana dork ?)
Fauna Shaman (over Lotus Cobra ?)
Spell Pierce (over Daze ?)
Spell Snare (over Delay ?)
Ancestral Vision (over Gitaxian Probe ?)
OUT
IN
Silverblade Paladin and Meddling Mage, despite being strong cards, won't make the cut for the time being as they're not integral to the gameplan.
Two slots need to be freed to include the following :
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare (even if I consider it a bit too situationnal)
With the assumption that the counterspells already in the list, as well as Preordain, would stay in, what would you take out ?
Some questions are still pending that may help to free (or fill ?) a couple of slots :
1) 11 2CC creatures maybe is too many and I feel that one slot could be freed here : Is Gaddock Teeg strong enough to deserve a slot ? Same thing for Lotus Cobra, which I'm reluctant to cut because, even if we don't need to ramp to 5, it gives us 1 extra mana approximately every other turn. Talking about 2CC creatures, would Grand Abolisher be worth it, being a disrupter ?
2) Does Aven Mindcensor does enough for the deck to keep its slot ? My opinion is yes, especially because of flash, thanks to which we can cast it EOT, i.e. at the best time for a tempo deck. Which leads me to another question : was it the right decision to cut Scryb Ranger ?
3) Most of the creatures in the deck being so strong (elves aside), isn't Spawnbroker becoming too risky (with the consequence that it would stay useless in our hand waiting for a "switchable" creature on our side of the board ) ?
4) Are there enough card drawing engines in the deck ? A tempo deck traditionnaly needs to play more spells to win than any other deck type, which implies that we would need to draw more cards. Ancestral Vision is good in this context but without Skullclamp and Cold-Eyed Selkie, don't we need a couple of draw spells ?
5) Parallax Tide seems interesting as a 1-sided Armageddon, especially with the Seals and Stifle. As a 4CC sorcery needs, in this format, to be game-breaking to be playable, I would tend not to include it, but what's your opinion on this card for this deck ?
6) Cryptic Command was taken out somewhere in the process, but considering the more and more tempo build of the deck, wouldn't it be a strong inclusion ?
Done.
Please note that I won't update the manabase until the decklist becomes stable.
I updated the list in the first post.
I'm going to playtest this decklist for a week or so (IRL and Cockatrice), and will then come back with more information.
In the meantime, any advice is still welcome, especially regarding the best strategy for some match-ups that I've still to play : Animar and 5C (Horde of Notions) combo(s).
So, too bad I don't play Doran ?
Maybe I will try Ulvenwald Tracker instead of Miscalculation which looks like the most "cuttable" card currently in the deck. Also, Serra Avenger is good but not overwhelming, so I'm gonna re-include Skullclamp instead, for additional card draw and anti-wrath protection.
Regarding Cataclysm, and even if I'm not sure you suggested it for the deck or only made a general remark, my opinion is that it's not as good here as in Geist for example, as Jenara (and most other threats in the deck) are not resilient enough to close the game post-Cataclysm. A Swords to Plowhares, a Dismember or anything on my threat and I would have a very hard time rebuilding the pressure. Also, Jenara is very mana consuming, and if I keep her post-Cataclysm, I won't have elves any more to fuel her, and I don't play (nor want to) rocks.
As it's only a very quick and dirty analysis, I would be very interested in your opinion about the card in this specific deck.
Over the last two months of playtest (competitive play only), I was disappointed by some cards that I progressively decided to get out :
First, the sorcery-speed removals, Oust and Lignify. Almost everything I wanted to remove could do something strong before I can play one of these cards. Although Lignify was strong in some match-ups, it was useless in most and bad sometimes (when a 0/4 blocker prevents me from bashing my opponent efficiently).
Fauna Shaman was too slow for my taste, and most of the time I had no creature in hand that I wanted to pitch (= the creature in my hand looked at least as important as the one I would have searched for, or I had none).
Geist of Saint Traft is an awesome card, but it needs to be equipped to really shine. This is an issue, as our first priority when we have an equipement on the board is to equip Jenara. For the time being, it was excluded (as well as Mirran Crusader, for the same reason). Additionally, my feeling is that Geist is far better as a Commander, as you can, in this case, complement it and enhance its intrinsic power with many game-breaking spells that aren't playable in Jenara, such as Cataclysm, Armageddon or even Supreme Verdict.
Spawnbroker was overall disappointing. We don't play enough creatures to be able to use it properly and when it would be decisive. Too many times I was stuck with it in the hand, hoping it was something more useful. My opinion is that at least 30-35 creatures, with all the scope of power values, are required for Spawnbroker to be at its full potential.
Venser, Shaper Savant : For 4 mana, I want spells that close the game when I'm ahead and and that help me to recover when I'm behind (e.g. Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Elspeth, Knight Errant). Venser, despite being a solid option, is not such a card. So, when I need room to test something new, it's one of the first cards that get out. Same thing (to a lesser extent) for Parallax Wave, mainly because we can't use it to protect Jenara efficiently.
Delay : Card disadvantage + no real tempo gain (compared to Memory Lapse or Remand) = out. I could come back if I, at some point in the future, I decide to play 16+ counterspells (which is highly unprobable).
Seal of Cleansing and Seal of Primordium : I'm currently testing other cards in these slots. They may come back or not depending on the test results and on the meta.
On the other hand, I tested many cards, that I hoped were more integral to our game plan. Most of them were far from good (in this deck), but a couple really shined :
Chrome Mox : My experience with this deck a T2 Jenara is such an incredible advantage in almost all matchups that we want her to hit the board as soon as possible, at almost any price. Actually, what we want is to be able to drop Jenara T2, even if we finally choose not to. That's why, following a suggestion by an eminent Jenara player, two additional ways of casting her T2 were added to the list, in the form of Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox. The card disadvantage is mitigated by the possibility it gives to play Jenara on T2 and again on T4 (or T3) if necessary, which is often too much for most opponents. Also, being able to Stifle a fetchland or to Force Spike / Mana Tithe something T1, then play Jenara T2 (something you can't do with a mana elf) is a very good way to start a game. I chose not to replace lands with Moxen, because Jenara is very mana-hungry, so there is no such thing as too much mana here. You always want to have the biggest, meanest dude on the board.
EDIT : Testing evidenced that Mox Diamond is bad in this deck, because you never want to discard a land and, consequently, risk to miss a land drop. So, it's out. On the contrary, Mox Chrome looks like a nice addition to the deck, providing speed for the price of a card that you can wisely choose depending on the match-up, although you always at risk of the Mox to be bounced by your opponent... One nice thing is that you're not forced to play it on turn 1 (unlike the mana dorks), which allows you to keep mana open for Force Spike, Mana Tithe, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce or Stifle, especially when you're on the draw.
Saffi Eriksdotter : Protecting Jenara, and, more generally, managing to keep a clock on the board, is one of the main stakes of the deck (as in any tempo deck). Saffi does it very well, and although it's useless against exiling effects, it protects Jenara from anything else including Supreme Verdict. A very nice complement to Mother of Runes. A nice bonus is the Saffi / Skullclamp / X/1 creature combo, that allows you to draw 6 cards for the cost of two minor creatures, which is a very nice late game option.
Silverblade Paladin : The main game plan being "equip a beater and proceed to win", double striking is a natural addition. I'm always happy when I draw it. Protecting Jenara for many turns is very difficult, so halving the number of turns you have to resist is good news. Also, a pair of double striking defenders is very comfortable in the aggro matchups. Double strike is so good in this deck that Rafiq of the Many may come back in the list if I manage to convince myself that its CMC and relative defensive weakness are not enough to keep it out (especially because it's tutorable with Green Sun's Zenith, something that is not true for Silverblade Paladin).
Currently testing :
Trinket Mage + Pithing Needle : There's always a good target for a Needle, and sometimes one that really hinders your opponent's game plan (Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Survival of the Fittest and so on). Too bad it's not legendary, as Needle is very strong against Jenara too... BTW, a virtual second Skullclamp in the form of the Mage is very appealing, consider how strong the card is in this deck.
Negate : Never a dead card. Protects Jenara. Counters game-breaking spells (such as Natural Order, Show and Tell, Armageddon, Cataclysm...). This deck has several solutions against permanents, but relies on its counterspells to block the unfair spells that are the trademark of Commander. So, Negate is an additional way to protect yourself from losing games, which is not something to be underestimated. In balance with Trickbind, aka Stifle #2, though, which is also never useless and works well in the early game mana denial subplan.
I will update ASAP the opening post according to these changes, slightly revising the mana base as well.
All your comments are welcome.
Olivier is a fantastic player, and he says that his St Nazaire version is the closest to perfection for him (which is not to be underestimated, as he's been playing Jenara in competitive environments for more than 3 years). He's got very strong convicitons and his card choices fit his playstyle very well.
I'm an average player, but based on my 19-year magic experience, what I'm sure of is that my playstyle (=the way I like to play, or, more accurately, the way I like to win games) is more aggro / creature-driven. Olivier's version includes too much counters for my taste, especially ones that I consider subpar (e.g. Delay is pure card disadvantage at least 50% of the time). Olivier also includes some pet cards of him, for which I don't share his love (Trickbind, Trinket Mage, Venser, Shaper Savant) : they're not bad, obviously, but I prefer to use these slots differently and I wouldn't feel comfortable with them in my deck.
So, I would be very happy to see your list and discuss it. I'm currently testing a slightly more aggressive version of my list, which includes Rafiq of the Many, Mirran Crusader and Serra Avenger, as well as something like 10-12 counters (instead of 15 in Olivier's version). It aims at closing games faster once you're able to stick Jenara or another beater on the board. It also includes more "replacement" options when Jenara has been countered / removed 2-3 times and you don't have the mana to pay for her. In Olivier's version, he only chose Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary and Vendilion Clique to act as secondary beaters, which doesn't feel enough to me (although - obviously - it worked very well for him).
Pithing Needle is a strong reactive card, especially against planeswalkers, Swords, Survival of the Fittest or Maze of Ith (a card that is pretty annoying for us). However, I wouldn't include it without Trinket Mage (especially now that I don't play Enlightened Tutor anymore).
The Trinket Mage / Needle package is something that I personaly don't like (4CC total, better creatures at 3CC), but which is not intrinsically a bad option, notably if you're ready to add more tools to your toolbox (typically Relic of Progenitus against Mimeoplasm and Karador decks, both boosted by the ban of Humility).
My current choice is not to include it, but it's more a matter of taste and feeling than anything else. I prefer to deal with the same opposing cards using other solutions (disenchant effects, Wasteland/Tectonic Edge, counters / creatures against planeswalkers).
About Skullclamp : this is probably one of the best cards in the deck. In the early game, you just have to clamp your (non-Jenara) threat to force your opponent to choose between losing life points or allowing you to draw cards. Actually, the more threatening creatures you play in your list, the most powerful Skullclamp becomes. Drawing more cards obviously increases your options but, mainly, prevents you from missing land drops (even after turn 5), something which is precious for Jenara. Late game, clamping your mana dorks is something that you will only want to do when you urgently need to draw a solution to a specific problem. If you play Saffi Eriksdotter, drawing 4 or 6 cards (depending on you wanting you keep your mana dork alive or not) is - almost always - game-breaking.
My opinion is that Mystic Snake isn't a good card in a deck that can't abuse it with repeatable bounce / blink effects. Unless your Jenara build is very blink-oriented, a 4CC counter attached to a 2/2 body is not enough to deserve a slot.
Here is my list of playable 4CC creatures. My choice current choice is not to play any, but I tried all of them.
Venser, Shaper Savant : Like I wrote before, my feeling is that this card certainly rewards skill and good timing, but remains overcosted for its effect. Basically, it's a Boomerang for UU and a 2/2 flash creature for 1U. It's not what I call a bargain. Moreover, I don't like to play bounce effects unless I'm forced to do so (e.g. in Talrand or in Clique decks), as bounce = card disadvantage unless the situation allows you to use it as a trick, a requirement that makes it to conditional for my taste. The only match-up in which I sometimes regret Venser is Skullbriar, the Walking Grave.
Thrun, the last troll : Heavy and resilient beater, good in the current meta full of counterspells (and a bane against mono-U decks). But its real CC is 6 (including GGG), because, most of the time, you won't play it unless you can protect it from wrath effects. Its lack of evasion is a weakness, too.
Rafiq of the Many : Very good synergy with Jenara and an incredible threat by itself, especially on an empty board. Its weakness may be that it's a bad defender for its mana cost. Nevertheless, it goes in and out of my list on a regular basis.
Sower of Temptation : control magic on a (flying) stick. I love this card, and I'm always tempted to include it in my deck, especially to steal opposing Commanders. Its weakness is its fragility : paying 4 for it to be killed in response is frustrating, let alone it being killed in response of one of your attacks, giving a blocker back to your opponent. The fact that it targets (and, hence, can't steal Geist of Saint Traft) is a bad point too.
Glen Elendra Archmage : The best of all, able to protect Jenara by itself until the game is over. The only reason why I don't play it is that it's a 5CC creature, as you need to keep (at least) one U mana opened to use it the turn it comes into play.
Beyond all these specific comments, the main reason why I don't play 4CC creatures is that, in Jenara, you always want to have spare mana at the end of you opponent's turn to boost Jenara. So, you want to keep your average CC as low as possible, using very cost-efficient cards to both deal with what your opponent is doing and to put threats on the board. Actually, if they were not so strong by themselves, I probably wouldn't play Elspeth, Knight Errant, nor Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
I woudn't include spells that only boost creatures. Jenara, unless you opt for a totally different build, is not an aggro deck. You have to use cards that serve your gameplan, which basically is : drop a threat, equip it if you can, then protect it until you win, preventing by the way your opponent to win the game before you do. Any card in your list that is not here to help you achieve some part of this game plan should be replaced by another one that does.
So I probably never will play cards like Rancor or, worst, Berserk (using it as a back-up removal sounds more like a Z-plan than anything else to me).
Swords and Jitte are integral to the game plan and provide card advantage, so they're no-brainers for me.
Elspeth, Knight Errant is very strong, providing a repeatable +3/+3 flying as well as "sword bearers" when needed (e.g. post-wrath). Nevertheless, it's as close to an aggro card as you can go in this deck, so, depending on your playstyle, you may want to replace it with a more defensive / reactive option.
I have not tested Simic Charm yet. Its versatility is the only reason why I would consider it, as I already explained why I despise pure boost and bounce effects in this deck. The global Turn Aside effect is more interesting, but, still, I can't find a card in my list that I would accept to get out in order to make room for this charm. A good card, not an excellent one. With all the powerful options available to us in Bant colors, this one doesn't look like it would make the cut.
Kira certainly is a strong card but the "equip" and the "skullclamp for CA" plans being central to this build, I prefer not to play it. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be a nice addition to a build less focused on equipments.
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)