This deck has undergone some serious changes in the past month, including a complete overhaul, notable cards include Mizzium Skin which save me from sweepers such as Volcanic Fallout and Whipflare
1/9/2013: 45 cards removed and replaced, complete overhaul of the deck itself.
5/29/2013: Took apart this list and built another entirely different list, for MP not Duel Commander
There's a lot of overly Timmy cards in here that are not going to be helpful for trying to win. French EDH is a 30 life format, so Talrand's lack of green ramp and any sort of effect that would let him cheat out Omniscience and Time Stretch are going to mean he has trouble casting it before he loses. Actually, if you build the deck right, you should have trouble casting an Omniscience before you win with the drake beatdown ;).
There's a lot of overly Timmy cards in here that are not going to be helpful for trying to win. French EDH is a 30 life format, so Talrand's lack of green ramp and any sort of effect that would let him cheat out Omniscience and Time Stretch are going to mean he has trouble casting it before he loses. Actually, if you build the deck right, you should have trouble casting an Omniscience before you win with the drake beatdown ;).
I know it's a 30 life format, but i'm going to be replacing a card with Show and Tell so it's a turn 3 potential if i want it to be.
This deck is getting a complete overhaul before i even attempt to take it to a tournament.
There are quite a few French Talrand lists, so you might want to take a look at those. The key is a very low curve, as many cheap counterspells as possible and ramp. You want to cast Talrand with a counterspell up by turn 3-4, before that you just counter stuff and chain cantrips. Show and tell - omniscience only works in jhoira / or as a backup to academy rector, otherwise it is a two-card combo which is too hard to find.
I'd start by cutting most of your creatures - with Talrand playing fabricate is better than trinket mage - as the 2/2 isn't worth that much. Same with the artifacts, you play a lot of ramp which isn't worth it because it is slow and doesn't synergize with your general.
For what its worth, my Talrand list plays 54 instants and sorceries and has an average mana cost of 1.2.
You are also not playing Talrand's best spell - Gush .
There are quite a few French Talrand lists, so you might want to take a look at those. The key is a very low curve, as many cheap counterspells as possible and ramp. You want to cast Talrand with a counterspell up by turn 3-4, before that you just counter stuff and chain cantrips. Show and tell - omniscience only works in jhoira / or as a backup to academy rector, otherwise it is a two-card combo which is too hard to find.
I'd start by cutting most of your creatures - with Talrand playing fabricate is better than trinket mage - as the 2/2 isn't worth that much. Same with the artifacts, you play a lot of ramp which isn't worth it because it is slow and doesn't synergize with your general.
For what its worth, my Talrand list plays 54 instants and sorceries and has an average mana cost of 1.2.
You are also not playing Talrand's best spell - Gush .
Yeah, as i said in the previous post, this deck is getting the overhaul, I just needed some advice before i even bothered, I know there are a ton of good Instants and Sorceries in blue, If i wanted Omniscience could be cut, I'd just have to test to see how fast it works out before i attempt a tournament.
Overburden <--amazing card
Stifle
Misdirection <-amazing
Ancestral Vision <-amazing
Rushing River
Deep Analysis <-very good with Fact or Fiction / Impulse
Wash Out
Foil
Delay
Memory Lapse
Spell Snare
Psionic Blast
Phantasmal Image
Dominate
Snap <-free unsummon
Vapor Snag <-strictly better version of unsummon
Standstill
Overburden <--amazing card
Stifle
Misdirection <-amazing
Ancestral Vision <-amazing
Rushing River
Deep Analysis <-very good with Fact or Fiction / Impulse
Wash Out
Foil
Delay
Memory Lapse
Spell Snare
Psionic Blast
Phantasmal Image
Dominate
Snap <-free unsummon
Vapor Snag <-strictly better version of unsummon
Standstill
This is kinda why i asked 5 of these i am interested in running in place of the jank stuff, I do possess Image, but is it really worth it in french?
This is kinda why i asked 5 of these i am interested in running in place of the jank stuff, I do possess Image, but is it really worth it in french?
Image always reads: 1B, destroy target general, which is good if it somehow gets through and maybe it can't be targeted (like anything with hexproof). It will always be useful. Instead of countering their general you can just let them cast it and play Image instead on the next turn, saving the counters for other threats.
Edit: How do you find Pact of Negation and Peer Through Depths to perform?
Image always reads: 1B, destroy target general, which is good if it somehow gets through and maybe it can't be targeted (like anything with hexproof). It will always be useful. Instead of countering their general you can just let them cast it and play Image instead on the next turn, saving the counters for other threats.
Edit: How do you find Pact of Negation and Peer Through Depths to perform?
Usually, I try to save Pact for the game ending type spell when i know it needs to be countered, Depths is one of those things that digs through my deck and just makes sure I always nail a spell, it's same cost as Impulse, same exact effect, but gives me another card to check, plus it's instant speed, performance issues with these two cards are not really a issue here.
Usually, I try to save Pact for the game ending type spell when i know it needs to be countered, Depths is one of those things that digs through my deck and just makes sure I always nail a spell, it's same cost as Impulse, same exact effect, but gives me another card to check, plus it's instant speed, performance issues with these two cards are not really a issue here.
I feel this card is warranted due to the fact it hits pretty much all the non shroud generals of the format, plus it's a damage dealer, nets me a drake for a mere 3 mana and 2 life
Being able to deal with all the single most threatening color of permanents is damaging enough, considering it doesn't have to target to use it's effect, so shroud and Hexproof are pretty much nothing to me with this one.
Most Sky Summoner lists and blue decks in general are rocking this, the little brother to the super powerful Force of Will which is great in all respects, another all star in this style of control deck
It's bigger brother the original bounce spell Unsummon is still pretty good, but being able to simply pay a single mana to bounce a creature and make the opponent lose 1 life is solid as can be honestly.
After giving it some thought, this particular clone effect is perhaps the best one in the format for french period, this is defintely a must have in any Talrand build, you'd kinda be crazy not to include this general killer
Sure it's 4 mana, but it replaces the other 4 mana draw of the deck instead, Inspiration which is good, but it doesn't give me maximum value in the long run, Flashback sorta matters i figured here.
After all of these changes the list will look a little something like this.
So some changes that were made to the overall deck to test are as follows
Arcane Melee - This is being tested, since i do end up playing quite a bit of the high cost spells and there are enough cards I feel to warrant this one.
Jace's Inguenity - 5 mana drawing 3 is pretty damn good at instant speed, it warrants a bit of testing however as i'm not entirely sure how this one performs.
Stolen Goods - Another one that i believe warrants a bit of testing, reading this one got me to thinking since it's control, i can steal their next spell and use that against them.
Redirect - Ramp spells beware, i'm stealing it to accelerate my game in advance.
Long-Term Plans 3 mana tutors are decent, considering this one is a instant speed spell, it seems to fit the style this deck presents.
Finally the following lands were removed from the deck and were replaced
Academy Ruins ---> Ghost Quarter since this was the one change i wanted to make in the last while, besides the 6 i previously stated, Ruins was always a place holder for the land destruction slot, since it serves little to no purpose now, 6 artifacts down to 2 defintely warranted this getting cut.
Will update this post with updated list probably tommorow.
How bout Spell Syphon? I am not sure if I understand this card correct, but Talrand produces blue permaments, than isn't it a good card?
It requires Blue permanents for it be to effective, 90% of the time it's a dead card in hand till I net talrand on the board and have a bunch of drakes, I must disagree rightfully and prefer Arcane Denial as a 2 mana counter.
Talrand on board, 1-2 drakes are the norm for that turn, usually depending of course if you've Pondered, Probe'd or even Thought a bit, nets a drake, swings for 4, normally this is the case.
Cards in hand are Arcane Denial, Spell Syphon and of course Snappy, often enough with 4 mana open, your going to hold 2 for denial, end of turn for the opponent, flash in snappy if you haven't countered anything, why wouldn't you, then shipped it back, with 3-4 drakes ready and raring to go.
The go to counter period is always going to be Denial in this instance, since it's a true solid hard counter, nets a card on upkeep and keeps you going, syphon only nets you a drake, denial always cantrips, enough said.
To be honest, it's a no brainer for this deck, since of course it's a piece of removal, also I'd be considering Hands of Binding since it's a consistent lock down effect.
So, currently in the testing stage is Illusionist's Bracers which to be quite honest is a sick card and I believe should find a home in every talrand deck, it says win more once it's attached to Talrand.
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Lands
28 Island
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Temple of the False God
1 Crystal Vein
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Creatures
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Archaeomancer
Planeswalkers
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Jace Beleren
Artifacts
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Strata Scythe
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter
Instants
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Dissipate
1 Hinder
1 Cancel
1 Counterspell
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Into the Roil
1 Inspiration
1 Sage's Dousing
1 Think Twice
1 Forbid
1 Capsize
1 Withdraw
1 Dream Fracture
1 Call to Heel
1 Rewind
1 Unsummon
1 Pongify
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Syncopate
1 Mana Leak
1 Force Spike
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Impulse
1 Liquify
1 Overwhelming Intellect
1 Evacuation
1 Frantic Search
1 High Tide
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Desertion
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mizzium Skin
1 Boomerang
1 Spell Pierce
1 Call to Heel
1 Reminisce
1 Devastation Tide
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sleep
1 Index
1 Mana Vapors
1 Preordain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Fabricate
1 Relearn
1 Time Warp
1 Talrand's Invocation
1 Ponder
1 Treasure Hunt
Change Log - Will be updated every month or so
1/9/2013: 45 cards removed and replaced, complete overhaul of the deck itself.
5/29/2013: Took apart this list and built another entirely different list, for MP not Duel Commander
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Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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I know it's a 30 life format, but i'm going to be replacing a card with Show and Tell so it's a turn 3 potential if i want it to be.
This deck is getting a complete overhaul before i even attempt to take it to a tournament.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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I'd start by cutting most of your creatures - with Talrand playing fabricate is better than trinket mage - as the 2/2 isn't worth that much. Same with the artifacts, you play a lot of ramp which isn't worth it because it is slow and doesn't synergize with your general.
For what its worth, my Talrand list plays 54 instants and sorceries and has an average mana cost of 1.2.
You are also not playing Talrand's best spell - Gush .
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Yeah, as i said in the previous post, this deck is getting the overhaul, I just needed some advice before i even bothered, I know there are a ton of good Instants and Sorceries in blue, If i wanted Omniscience could be cut, I'd just have to test to see how fast it works out before i attempt a tournament.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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EDH:1 vs 1
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Overburden <--amazing card
Stifle
Misdirection <-amazing
Ancestral Vision <-amazing
Rushing River
Deep Analysis <-very good with Fact or Fiction / Impulse
Wash Out
Foil
Delay
Memory Lapse
Spell Snare
Psionic Blast
Phantasmal Image
Dominate
Snap <-free unsummon
Vapor Snag <-strictly better version of unsummon
Standstill
(Multiplayer)
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
(American 1v1)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking Grave
WUGDerevi
This is kinda why i asked 5 of these i am interested in running in place of the jank stuff, I do possess Image, but is it really worth it in french?
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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Image always reads: 1B, destroy target general, which is good if it somehow gets through and maybe it can't be targeted (like anything with hexproof). It will always be useful. Instead of countering their general you can just let them cast it and play Image instead on the next turn, saving the counters for other threats.
Edit: How do you find Pact of Negation and Peer Through Depths to perform?
(Multiplayer)
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
(American 1v1)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking Grave
WUGDerevi
Usually, I try to save Pact for the game ending type spell when i know it needs to be countered, Depths is one of those things that digs through my deck and just makes sure I always nail a spell, it's same cost as Impulse, same exact effect, but gives me another card to check, plus it's instant speed, performance issues with these two cards are not really a issue here.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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I think I will try them
(Multiplayer)
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
(American 1v1)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking Grave
WUGDerevi
+ Psionic Blast
+ Wash Out
+ Foil
+ Vapor Snag
+ Phantasmal Image
+ Deep Analysis
After all of these changes the list will look a little something like this.
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Lands
28 Island
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Temple of the False God
1 Crystal Vein
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Creatures
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Archaeomancer
1 Phantasmal Image
Planeswalkers
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Jace Beleren
Artifacts
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Strata Scythe
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Isochron Scepter
Instants
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Dissipate
1 Psionic Blast
1 Cancel
1 Counterspell
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Into the Roil
1 Deep Analysis
1 Sage's Dousing
1 Think Twice
1 Forbid
1 Capsize
1 Withdraw
1 Dream Fracture
1 Vapor Snag
1 Rewind
1 Unsummon
1 Pongify
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Syncopate
1 Mana Leak
1 Force Spike
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Impulse
1 Liquify
1 Foil
1 Evacuation
1 Frantic Search
1 High Tide
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Desertion
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mizzium Skin
1 Boomerang
1 Spell Pierce
1 Wash Out
1 Reminisce
1 Devastation Tide
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sleep
1 Index
1 Mana Vapors
1 Preordain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Fabricate
1 Relearn
1 Time Warp
1 Ponder
1 Treasure Hunt
EDH:1 vs 1
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Arcane Melee - This is being tested, since i do end up playing quite a bit of the high cost spells and there are enough cards I feel to warrant this one.
Jace's Inguenity - 5 mana drawing 3 is pretty damn good at instant speed, it warrants a bit of testing however as i'm not entirely sure how this one performs.
Stolen Goods - Another one that i believe warrants a bit of testing, reading this one got me to thinking since it's control, i can steal their next spell and use that against them.
Redirect - Ramp spells beware, i'm stealing it to accelerate my game in advance.
Long-Term Plans 3 mana tutors are decent, considering this one is a instant speed spell, it seems to fit the style this deck presents.
Finally the following lands were removed from the deck and were replaced
Academy Ruins ---> Ghost Quarter since this was the one change i wanted to make in the last while, besides the 6 i previously stated, Ruins was always a place holder for the land destruction slot, since it serves little to no purpose now, 6 artifacts down to 2 defintely warranted this getting cut.
Will update this post with updated list probably tommorow.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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It requires Blue permanents for it be to effective, 90% of the time it's a dead card in hand till I net talrand on the board and have a bunch of drakes, I must disagree rightfully and prefer Arcane Denial as a 2 mana counter.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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Talrand on board, 1-2 drakes are the norm for that turn, usually depending of course if you've Pondered, Probe'd or even Thought a bit, nets a drake, swings for 4, normally this is the case.
Cards in hand are Arcane Denial, Spell Syphon and of course Snappy, often enough with 4 mana open, your going to hold 2 for denial, end of turn for the opponent, flash in snappy if you haven't countered anything, why wouldn't you, then shipped it back, with 3-4 drakes ready and raring to go.
The go to counter period is always going to be Denial in this instance, since it's a true solid hard counter, nets a card on upkeep and keeps you going, syphon only nets you a drake, denial always cantrips, enough said.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Sigh, well that's just bad then, I don't even know why I bought a copy.
EDH:1 vs 1
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EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
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