In my quest to popularize odd-ball generals that become too competitive when more competent players take over, I've discovered another general who can actually be far deadlier than meets the eye.
I've been hesitant to post this since I've only been playtesting it for a week or two, but by popular demand from players on Cockatrice, I've finally gotten around to writing a suitable introduction to those who want to play this deck.
I know, right?
-5 mana
-2 Colors
-No immediate effect on the battlefield
-Weak P/T
...How can he possibly be umm..erh...Good?
READ ON CURIOUS DUEL COMMANDER PLAYER
Why to Play Momir Vig
-You like super long turns that are essentially just complicated solitaire
-You like a viable combo deck that has legitimate backup plans
-You like Cavern of Souls making control decks shed sweet tears
Why not to Play Momir Vig
-You have better things to do with your time than lose to Pyroclasm
-You dislike complicated, long turns that are incredibly punishing if you mess up
Painter's Servant: With Momir Vig out, Painter's Servant naming blue turns all your green creatures into Eladamri's Call. This lets you chain through every green creature in your deck (provided you have the mana)
Coiling Oracle: Since this triggers without Painter's Servant out, and also draws you (or ramps you) when it ETB, this is a 1 card stop towards getting the engine going. Tutoring for Wirewood Symbiote with this lets you bounce it and replay it, netting 1 tutor of Wirewood, 1 tutor of Painter's Servant, and 2 draws to get the creature you need.
The Combo!
To pull off the combo in its most resource limited form, you need the following:
1) 5 lands, Momir Vig, 1 super mana dork (Bloom Tender, Fyndhorn Elder, Priest of Titania, etc.) all in play
2) Coiling Oracle on the top of your deck or in your hand.
Let's assume you have Bloom Tender in play this time.
To begin:
1) Draw Coiling Oracle, tap Bloom Tender, play it.
2) Tutor for Wirewood Symbiote, then use the Coiling Trigger. To win, you need to draw off of this a creature with CMC 2 or less.
3) Cast Wirewood, searching for Painter's Servant, and putting it on top.
4) Bounce Coiling, untapping Bloom Tender, then tapping her again to replay Coiling.
5) Reveal Painter's first, then tutor for Heritage Druid, and draw it off the coiling trigger.
6) Cast Painter's Servant, naming "blue", then Heritage Druid, tutoring for Nettle Sentinel, and playing that. Tutor for a 1 CMC elf.
7) Tap 3 elves to add 3 {G}, play the elf you tutored for, and chain through every 1 CMC elf in your deck, as well as Devoted Druid (whose untap ability makes her function as a 1 CMC elf, since you can tap her as part of Heritage Druid's ability twice). The final card you tutor for is Tidespout Tyrant
8) This will allow you to generate 7 {G} off of Heritage Druid's ability, and 2 {U} off of Birchlore Ranger's ability
9) Bounce a forest to Quirion Ranger to untap Bloom Tender, then re-tap her, bringing your total floating mana to 3 {U}, and 8 {G}
10) Play Tidespout Tyrant, and then your 2 mana elf, bouncing Wirewood. You have 1 {G} floating.
11) Replay Wirewood, bouncing one of their permanents. Bounce a 1 CMC elf to untap Bloom Tender.
12) Replay the elf, bouncing Wirewood with Tidespout, and untapping Nettle Sentinel. Tap Bloom Tender, and Nettle Sentinel and the untapped elf to Birchlore Ranger's ability.
13) Repeat steps #11 and #12 infinitely, bouncing all of their permanents.
14) Do the Vig
Why didn't X make the cut?
To understand why certain cards that seem obvious inclusions didn't make the cut, first an analysis of Vig as a card!
Momir Vig is one of the few cards that is both a combo enabler, in that he finds you Painter's Servant, and a combo piece, in that he goes infinite once you have the Servant in play.
As a result, traditional combo enablers for this deck are redundant, and in fact mostly just dead cards. This explains why cards like Cloudstone Curio, Intruder Alarm, or Tangleroot didn't make it in.
Terastadon: Only good with Natural Order, as opposed to Titan, who is a legitimate tutor target against extinction decks. If you can tutor for him and play him normally, you could just win through the combo route.
Timetwister: Once you get Vig in play, you pretty much tutor for a creature every turn, so non-creature spells have to be playable early, and have immediate board impact. Timetwister is just too risky, especially as the worst matchup, tapout control, often empties their hand just as quickly as you. Even against Midrange decks, giving them 4-5 cards to your 7 isn't necessarily that great considering they have generally double your threat density.
Ezuri, Renegade Leader: If I have 5 mana, I'd rather cast Vig. However, I obviously understand that's Magical Christmas Land, and Ezuri is on the list for possible inclusions.
Mind Bend / similar cards: Painter's Servant occupies the same spot, and is tutorable since it's a creature. It also stays in play if they kill Momir Vig. And if they kill it, you can easily tutor for Eternal Witness. And if they kill it again, well, you've had ample time to win or beat them down by this point.
Toolbox Creatures: See paragraph below
Why combo elves over a toolbox or control version?
For control generals, there's hotter than Momir Vig is honestly the answer. Protecting a 5 mana, 2/2 guy is a lot of work for a control deck. You'd be better off playing Grand Arbiter by a factor of a trillion, or Jenara.
As for toolbox creatures, the problem is you want most of them in play before you cast Vig. So the fact that Trygon Predator is UG is actually not as relevant as it first seems, and a card like Phyrexian Revoker stops the tutor chain.
Overall, the deck is too fragile to try and control the board tutoring for only one creature a turn. You're much better off just combo-ing.
Strategy
Generally, you have three strategies you can take
1) Combo: Against midrange decks who don't play mass removal, or other combo decks, this is your desired route. Given the ease with which Momir Vig can combo, and the limited resources required to do so, these are your best matchups.
This just involves playing your hand as fast as you can, resolving Momir hopefully Turn 3, and winning Turn 4. Sometimes, this can be the route you'll take against control, especially when you have countermagic backup (in the form of Daze or Spell Pierce), but its not optimal.
2) Mana Denial: This is the route you'll take against control decks which play mass removal, and thus are likely to stop you before you can combo. This strategy involves aggressively tutoring Acidic Slime / Phantasmal Image / Primeval Titan, and making use of devastating early game turns like, Primal Command, Opposition, or Beast Within.
Even though Control decks are likely to keep making land drops (given the high density of lands and card draw they play), keeping them off of enough mana for them to resolve threats generally keeps you in the game. Without overextending, you can still resolve one or two mana dorks, setting you ahead in the mana game, and allowing you to go 1-1 in terms of lands and still stay out on top.
Edric also gives you a good backup plan if you can force a wrath on turn 4 by resolving Vig, and then playing another guy to tutor for Edric. Once they're tapped out, you can play Edric and anything else in your hand, and put them on a clock again.
3) Attrition: This is the preferred strategy against single target removal heavy decks like mono red burn, or Olivia Voldaren. Here, land denial won't do much since these decks also often play cheap threats, but combo-ing is impossible.
Instead, you take advantage of their reluctance to waste removal on mana dorks, to resolve Momir Vig, and while retaining priority, castanyonemanacreature. Even though this means waiting till you have 6 mana in play - as opposed to 5 - you can still get there generally quicker than these decks can resolve a game winning threat.
Once you resolve the creature and tutor, getting Primeval Titan puts you in much better shape. The mana boost off of Cradle + a land will allow you to keep resolving Momir Vig, and then tutoring for more game ending threats like Regal Force and Tidespout Tyrant.
A turn 3/4 Terastodon wins so many games, I feel like it's still worth it. Against many decks, I'd even want Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor as well, to help enable this. I guess if you're having trouble with control, it's not worth it, but in an old UG deck I had, a substantial portion of my wins came from a turn 3 Natural Order into Terastodon.
A turn 3/4 Terastodon wins so many games, I feel like it's still worth it. Against many decks, I'd even want Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor as well, to help enable this. I guess if you're having trouble with control, it's not worth it, but in an old UG deck I had, a substantial portion of my wins came from a turn 3 Natural Order into Terastodon.
2) Copperhorn Scout vs. Essence Warden -> Also agree. Must not have been paying attention when I was looking through 1 CMC elves.
-Essence Warden
+Copperhorn Scout
3) Terastadon / Mystical Tutor / Personal Tutor -> Don't agree so much.
Primeval Titan remains an aggressive tutor target against burn based decks, and improves that matchup by a ridiculous %. These decks will generally save burn for Momir out of fear of you combo-ing, in which case you wait till you can resolve Momir, and while still retaining priority, cast another creature so you can tutor for Primeval.
Terastadon, on the other hand, I can really almost never see myself tutoring for. That means its only worth is as a Natural Order target, and this deck has a solid matchup against non-control anyway. Given this, I also am reluctant to put Mystical Tutor / Personal Tutor in, because card disadvantage only makes hard permission matchups that much harder.
BTW I like this deck a lot. It makes me consider if I want to IRL build this or Animar (which would be nice in that they're mostly the same deck but I don't have to shell out for quite as many fetchlands, nor do I need to sink $300 into trying to get an Imperial Recruiter.)
Viridian Zealot is too slow for the first 2, and useless for the third. Generally, Zealot was pretty underwhelming, especially since you want your elves to stay in play so you can tap them or have them add to Priest of Titania or Elvish Archdruid. If enchantments get to be a problem, I could re-add Zealot.
Though note that a lot of the enchantments you'd normally be scared off, like Moat, don't really bother this deck.
BTW I like this deck a lot. It makes me consider if I want to IRL build this or Animar (which would be nice in that they're mostly the same deck but I don't have to shell out for quite as many fetchlands, nor do I need to sink $300 into trying to get an Imperial Recruiter.)
I tried Birthing Pod; combo elves just isn't the place for it. If you can sac Momir to get Primeval Titan, you can then get Regal Force and then Tidespout Tyrant. But if you don't want to sac Momir, or don't have him in play, Birthing Pod becomes so useless. Most of the deck is 1-2 mana, and the only interesting target for these creatures is Trinket Mage .
Elvish Spirit Guide: I dislike Card Disadvantage in this deck in order to gain speed. Even Chrome Mox is often super sketchy.
Mox Diamond: I found it so hard to make an opening hand with Mox Diamond work, since the deck only plays 32 lands + Land Grant. Unlike Animar, your win condition is 5 mana, not 3. You thus have to take a somewhat more balanced approach between speed and consistency.
Vitalize: As mentioned in the original post, I don't like "combo enablers". Given the ridiculously low amount of resources needed by this deck to combo, I'd rather not waste those spots on going more all in, but rather being able to survive if they stop you. Anyway, the difference between combo-ing is often literally 1-2 mana, so Vitalize may as well just be another mana dork.
Sylvan Safekeeper: If I remember correctly, I decided I don't like this card because single spot removal isn't really a threat (it's very easy to re-play Momir Vig when 1/3 your deck is mana dorks), but board wipes are. Now that I think about it, this card should probably be in regardless. I'll think of cuts.
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant: You want Erayo to work so much in a deck like this. Unfortunately, tutoring for Erayo A) Tells your opponent exactly what you're trying to do B) Means you already have Vig in play C) Means you also have 3 more spells you can play in hand. The alternative, just lucking into a board state that can activate Erayo is too unreliable, considering this deck actually has few ways to generate card advantage.
Turn Aside / Intervene: On a whole, you'd rather threats with this deck than answers. More specifically, Intervene / Turn Aside are back because they waste mana you really need. Consider you want to play Momir Vig against a horde deck you know is going to bolt him. You can wait till 6 mana and play Vig with counter back up. Or, you can play Vig with 1 mana open, play a one mana guy, and tutor for Primeval Titan. Which is ultimately the stronger play?
For Birthing Pod, I don't think the high end CC curve chains is what you want. I believe the low mana chains are more what you want, such as:
Dryad Arbor -> any 1 mana dork, probably Heritage Druid most likely or Nettle Sentinel or Wirewood Symbiote (at 0 CC, and with Trinket Mage in, possibly include Memnite? Dunno seems like maybe a wasted slot) but I do like the fact that with Land Grant, Zenith, and 4 fetches the access to the 0 CC creature to chain into a 1 CC creature is high.
Any one mana dork that's tapped and useless -> Coiling Oracle, Gilded Drake, Painter's Servant, Phantasmal Image, Spellskite
I see Pod as a viable tutor for pulling out the low CC combo creatures before Momir hits. Or even as backup removal protection, and as a useful toolbox (Flashing in Symbiote, Gilded Drake, Phantasmal Image, or Spellskite at instant speed is incredibly useful).
Plus, turn 1 llanowar elves, turn 2 Birthing Pod, turn 3 turn it into one of the 2 mana utility creatures seems like a tasty option that puts the opponent on a very short clock. In Standard turn 2 Pods usually led to one-sided games.
Looking forward to Gatecrash's Simic goodies, what types of cards are you looking more for (that either simplify the combo, add more speed/consistency, or protect like a boss), and what types of cards in the list are on your chopping block?
I'm going to retry Birthing Pod, and see how it works.
With that in mind
-Chrome Mox - Card disadvantage in general just sucks in this deck. I can generally combo turn 4 anyway with no interruption, and Chrome Mox is too vulnerable considering the deck plays only 3 artifacts.
Have you ever thought about Trinket Mage to fetch Grindstone + Painter's Servant for the instant win? Seems like a pretty easy way to have a Plan B. You just need to chain Painter into Mage and you're set
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It absolutely blows my mind that glammerdye and friends are not being considered.
Change both of vigs abilities to trigger off of green creatures, basically making every one mana elf you play an effective Eladamri's Call, then you proceed to combo off.
There's about seven of these color changing effects and they basically allow you to run a deck of all mana dorks, cantrips, and your one-two mana color changing wincons.
Trust me, playing a creature based combo deck in a 100 card format is really hard. Consistency and redundancy are key.
Mind Bend / similar cards: Painter's Servant occupies the same spot, and is tutorable since it's a creature. It also stays in play if they kill Momir Vig. And if they kill it, you can easily tutor for Eternal Witness. And if they kill it again, well, you've had ample time to win or beat them down by this point.
Change both of vigs abilities to trigger off of green creatures, basically making every one mana elf you play an effective Eladamri's Call, then you proceed to combo off.
I'm aware. The deck makes use of that combo right now, but with Painter's Servant.
There's about seven of these color changing effects and they basically allow you to run a deck of all mana dorks, cantrips, and your one-two mana color changing wincons.
They do no such thing, unless you want to auto scoop to control decks who can easily keep Momir Vig off the table when the rest of your deck consists of 0 threats.
Sylvan Messenger generally drew me only 1 guy, and drew me 2 just as often as it drew me 0. As a result, I've switched it out for Masked Admirers, since:
1) It's more consistent
2) With Vig out, it can also tutor for Painter's Servant
3) It offers some greater resiliency to wrath effects
4) The extra 1 power is more relevant than trample (when killing Jace for example)
Meanwhile, Plow Under is too situational, and far worse than Primal Command, given that the extra tempo isn't worth the inconsistency, inability to deal with nonland permanents, and inability to also find me a tutor target.
In its place, I've put in Garruk 1.0, which is just an all around good card.
Birthing Pod is also pretty ridiculous, I'll admit; it's earned its spot here.
Even more meanwhile, I await with baited breath on goodies from GTC.
Sweet! I remember wishing Painter's Servant was unbanned in multiplayer so it could replace the clunky Primordial Sage. It makes me happy to see a streamlined version of this deck. I have a few questions:
Why no Sylvan Safekeeper? Protecting Vig and Painters Servant is top priority, no? This is fairly comparable to Spellskite, except it costs one less mana and can tutor with Vig.
Also, what do you do when Painters Servant gets hit with Swords to Plowshares, or whatever? How viable is the aggro plan against decks that are better equipped to interact on that axis? Is Edric, Spymaster of Trest legal to play as one of your 99, and would it be playable here?
Sweet! I remember wishing Painter's Servant was unbanned in multiplayer so it could replace the clunky Primordial Sage. It makes me happy to see a streamlined version of this deck. I have a few questions:
Why no Sylvan Safekeeper? Protecting Vig and Painters Servant is top priority, no? This is fairly comparable to Spellskite, except it costs one less mana and can tutor with Vig.
I tried Safekeeper. The general feeling I got out of it was:
1) It didn't do anything towards the deck's real weakness - sweepers
2) Targeted removal isn't generally that bad. This deck has such a plethora of mana anyway, I don't mind just recasting Vig indefinitely. Safekeeper also is useless versus the removal this deck hates the most: Jitte
3) This deck likes its lands. Or more accurately, this deck likes its mana (but also sometimes its lands when you have Quirion Ranger out). Generally when Im facing a deck packing a lot of single targeted removal, I wait till 6 mana, cast Vig and while retaining priority, cast another dude to search for Primeval Titan . Its an effective strategy that decks like Teysa or Olivia are hard pressed to stop, and once I have Cradle + Another land out, I can generally fight through removal to keep casting Vig until I combo.
Also, what do you do when Painters Servant gets hit with Swords to Plowshares, or whatever? How viable is the aggro plan against decks that are better equipped to interact on that axis? Is Edric, Spymaster of Trest legal to play as one of your 99, and would it be playable here?
Out of the 100+ games I've played, I've had Painter's Servant exiled I think under 5 times. The reason for this is obvious: Why wait to Swords Painter's Servant? That means having to let me resolve Vig and keep him in play; most decks are too wary of just Momir Vig to let him stay in play long enough to tutor for Painter's Servant.
Furthermore, Painter's Servant only hits the battlefield the turn I'm comboing. If they really did wait till that point to Swords, they'd have to do it in response to the creature I cast while retaining priority (since naming a color with Servant isn't responable). That means I know they've exiled Servant, and I can tutor for a creature accordingly - probably Primeval Titan or Regal Force. I thus end the turn in a really good board position anyway (since my last tutor target off Coiling Oracle is generally Heritage Druid, and I probably have the mana to cast my bomb that turn).
As for the beatdown plan, its not really that spectacular. Generally, if I know I cant combo, I'll just try and tutor for something big like Regal Force or Tidespout Tyrant to have a backup beater once they wrath. Primeval Titan getting Wasteland and Mutavault is also good.
I had initially been wary of Edric for the same reasons as Ezuri (if they're not your general, why tutor for them when you could tutor for the combo?). But now that I think about it, Edric has a lot more going for it than Ezuri - U and G, so he triggers Vig, draws cards (which is better in this deck than dealing damage), and requires little mana investment.
Given that Copperhorn Scout and Skyshroud Ranger have both been mediocre, and Jitte continues to be the worst, I'm making the following cuts:
Makes sense. I was never really thrilled with Copperhorn Scout, either.
While we are throwing out suggestions, what are your thoughts on Ponder and Preordain? They may not be quite as nuts here as they usually are, but I think they warrant some consideration if you are 1) playing a combo deck, and 2) already packing Brainstorm. They might be better than one of the mediocre 2-drop mana dorks.
I have to say I really like this deck and am really looking forward to putting this together in paper magic. I'm not too particularly excited about anything gate crash other than the simic guild leader and his ability to refill a hand. Seem like a fair card for the deck?
I'm not too particularly excited about anything gate crash other than the simic guild leader and his ability to refill a hand. Seem like a fair card for the deck?
If only Zegana was 5 or 4 mana. Sigh. Well, then I'd probably replace Vig for her anyway.
At 6 mana, Zegana is super expensive, and will probably consume all your mana for the turn, to only draw maybe 3-4 cards. Unfortunately, she's just not worth it. In virtually all respects, Edric is a better tutor target.
GTC has honestly been incredibly lackluster (which sucks). Out of all the spoiled cards, only Zameck Guildmage looks playable, and I'm still debating that. Here's to hoping for at least one playable UG Elf out of the set.
After the legend rule chain, Image wasn't nearly as good. You can still tutor for Gilded Drake regardless.
Elvish Mystic was an easy replacement for it.
Primal Command ended up being too slow, and Food Chain should have been in from the beginning. It lets you combo from well below the minimum board position that would otherwise be necessary.
Spell Pierce is obviously sweet, but Swan Song is better in 9/10 instances (basically only when they're trying to resolve Jitte, but even then Pierce just buys you one turn).
Finally, Island gets cut for the new legendary land from Theros, which is basically Cradle #2 in the deck. Finally a good addition to the deck! Primeval Titan into Cradle + Nykthos is just a bit ridiculous.
Here's to hoping they eventually make a functional reprint of Coiling Oracle. But really, even any elf at UG would go a long way towards making this deck Tier 1 (since as it stands, its probably still not good enough).
Nice! Food Chain is ridiculous for sure, and the new cards look like they were custom made for this deck. Have you taken this beast through any tournaments lately?
Nice! Food Chain is ridiculous for sure, and the new cards look like they were custom made for this deck. Have you taken this beast through any tournaments lately?
Unfortunately not , for reasons I expound on below.
What do you think about Craterhoof Behemoth? I never played your list, but I do run it in my MW elf ball, and it can win games out of nowhere. It is very similar to Regal Force in some sense though, and I'm not sure if you need both, or which one is better, but I think it may have a place on your list.
Regal Force is necessary because it lets you finish a game midcombo when you have sufficient mana but lack creature spells in hand to start the Wirewood + Tidespout Tyrant loop. Or if you have mana and start the combo but Wirewood is just dead. Either way, its necessary.
As for Craterhoof Behemoth, it doesn't address the key weakness in the deck, which is the turn between resolving Momir + playing a creature to set up the combo (putting Coiling Oracle on top), and actually comboing. A wrath effect or even removal sets the deck back severely at that point, and makes recovering difficult.
That's why UG creatures are so essential, because they let you combo the turn you cast Momir - unfortunately, they don't print any good ones. Hence, why I decided to pilot Rafiq in the last MTGS tournament. I'm still hoping for Momir one day though.
In my quest to popularize odd-ball generals that become too competitive when more competent players take over, I've discovered another general who can actually be far deadlier than meets the eye.
I've been hesitant to post this since I've only been playtesting it for a week or two, but by popular demand from players on Cockatrice, I've finally gotten around to writing a suitable introduction to those who want to play this deck.
The General
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I know, right?
-5 mana
-2 Colors
-No immediate effect on the battlefield
-Weak P/T
...How can he possibly be umm..erh...Good?
READ ON CURIOUS DUEL COMMANDER PLAYER
Why to Play Momir Vig
-You like super long turns that are essentially just complicated solitaire
-You like a viable combo deck that has legitimate backup plans
-You like Cavern of Souls making control decks shed sweet tears
Why not to Play Momir Vig
-You have better things to do with your time than lose to Pyroclasm
-You dislike complicated, long turns that are incredibly punishing if you mess up
The Decklist
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Priest of Titania
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Bloom Tender
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Heritage Druid
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Boreal Druid
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Devoted Druid
1 Heart Warden
1 Wirewood Channeler
1 Wirewood Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Arbor Elf
1 Quirion Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elder
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Spellskite
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Gilded Drake
1 Eternal Witness
1 Masked Admirer
1 Elvish Scrapper
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Trinket Mage
1 Acidic Slime
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Masked Admirer
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Primeval Titan
1 Regal Force
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Natural Order
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Land Grant
1 Daze
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Crop Rotation
1 Brainstorm
1 Chord of Calling
1 Swan Song
1 Beast Within
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Earthcraft
1 Oppositon
1 Sylvan Library
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Survival Of the Fittest
1 Food Chain
1 Birthing Pod
1 Tangle Wire
1 Skullclamp
1 Garruk, Wildspeaker
Lands - 32
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Breeding Pool
1 Tropical Island
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Command Tower
5 Island
9 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Flooded Grove
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Mutavault
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Rishadan Port
1 Wasteland
The Combo Pieces
Painter's Servant: With Momir Vig out, Painter's Servant naming blue turns all your green creatures into Eladamri's Call. This lets you chain through every green creature in your deck (provided you have the mana)
Coiling Oracle: Since this triggers without Painter's Servant out, and also draws you (or ramps you) when it ETB, this is a 1 card stop towards getting the engine going. Tutoring for Wirewood Symbiote with this lets you bounce it and replay it, netting 1 tutor of Wirewood, 1 tutor of Painter's Servant, and 2 draws to get the creature you need.
The Combo!
To pull off the combo in its most resource limited form, you need the following:
1) 5 lands, Momir Vig, 1 super mana dork (Bloom Tender, Fyndhorn Elder, Priest of Titania, etc.) all in play
2) Coiling Oracle on the top of your deck or in your hand.
Let's assume you have Bloom Tender in play this time.
To begin:
1) Draw Coiling Oracle, tap Bloom Tender, play it.
2) Tutor for Wirewood Symbiote, then use the Coiling Trigger. To win, you need to draw off of this a creature with CMC 2 or less.
3) Cast Wirewood, searching for Painter's Servant, and putting it on top.
4) Bounce Coiling, untapping Bloom Tender, then tapping her again to replay Coiling.
5) Reveal Painter's first, then tutor for Heritage Druid, and draw it off the coiling trigger.
6) Cast Painter's Servant, naming "blue", then Heritage Druid, tutoring for Nettle Sentinel, and playing that. Tutor for a 1 CMC elf.
7) Tap 3 elves to add 3 {G}, play the elf you tutored for, and chain through every 1 CMC elf in your deck, as well as Devoted Druid (whose untap ability makes her function as a 1 CMC elf, since you can tap her as part of Heritage Druid's ability twice). The final card you tutor for is Tidespout Tyrant
8) This will allow you to generate 7 {G} off of Heritage Druid's ability, and 2 {U} off of Birchlore Ranger's ability
9) Bounce a forest to Quirion Ranger to untap Bloom Tender, then re-tap her, bringing your total floating mana to 3 {U}, and 8 {G}
10) Play Tidespout Tyrant, and then your 2 mana elf, bouncing Wirewood. You have 1 {G} floating.
11) Replay Wirewood, bouncing one of their permanents. Bounce a 1 CMC elf to untap Bloom Tender.
12) Replay the elf, bouncing Wirewood with Tidespout, and untapping Nettle Sentinel. Tap Bloom Tender, and Nettle Sentinel and the untapped elf to Birchlore Ranger's ability.
13) Repeat steps #11 and #12 infinitely, bouncing all of their permanents.
14) Do the Vig
Why didn't X make the cut?
To understand why certain cards that seem obvious inclusions didn't make the cut, first an analysis of Vig as a card!
Momir Vig is one of the few cards that is both a combo enabler, in that he finds you Painter's Servant, and a combo piece, in that he goes infinite once you have the Servant in play.
As a result, traditional combo enablers for this deck are redundant, and in fact mostly just dead cards. This explains why cards like Cloudstone Curio, Intruder Alarm, or Tangleroot didn't make it in.
Earthcraft remains in just because it's so boss.
Terastadon: Only good with Natural Order, as opposed to Titan, who is a legitimate tutor target against extinction decks. If you can tutor for him and play him normally, you could just win through the combo route.
Nissa Revane: If only she wasn't awful.
Timetwister: Once you get Vig in play, you pretty much tutor for a creature every turn, so non-creature spells have to be playable early, and have immediate board impact. Timetwister is just too risky, especially as the worst matchup, tapout control, often empties their hand just as quickly as you. Even against Midrange decks, giving them 4-5 cards to your 7 isn't necessarily that great considering they have generally double your threat density.
Ezuri, Renegade Leader: If I have 5 mana, I'd rather cast Vig. However, I obviously understand that's Magical Christmas Land, and Ezuri is on the list for possible inclusions.
Mind Bend / similar cards: Painter's Servant occupies the same spot, and is tutorable since it's a creature. It also stays in play if they kill Momir Vig. And if they kill it, you can easily tutor for Eternal Witness. And if they kill it again, well, you've had ample time to win or beat them down by this point.
Toolbox Creatures: See paragraph below
Why combo elves over a toolbox or control version?
For control generals, there's hotter than Momir Vig is honestly the answer. Protecting a 5 mana, 2/2 guy is a lot of work for a control deck. You'd be better off playing Grand Arbiter by a factor of a trillion, or Jenara.
As for toolbox creatures, the problem is you want most of them in play before you cast Vig. So the fact that Trygon Predator is UG is actually not as relevant as it first seems, and a card like Phyrexian Revoker stops the tutor chain.
Overall, the deck is too fragile to try and control the board tutoring for only one creature a turn. You're much better off just combo-ing.
Strategy
Generally, you have three strategies you can take
1) Combo: Against midrange decks who don't play mass removal, or other combo decks, this is your desired route. Given the ease with which Momir Vig can combo, and the limited resources required to do so, these are your best matchups.
This just involves playing your hand as fast as you can, resolving Momir hopefully Turn 3, and winning Turn 4. Sometimes, this can be the route you'll take against control, especially when you have countermagic backup (in the form of Daze or Spell Pierce), but its not optimal.
2) Mana Denial: This is the route you'll take against control decks which play mass removal, and thus are likely to stop you before you can combo. This strategy involves aggressively tutoring Acidic Slime / Phantasmal Image / Primeval Titan, and making use of devastating early game turns like, Primal Command, Opposition, or Beast Within.
Even though Control decks are likely to keep making land drops (given the high density of lands and card draw they play), keeping them off of enough mana for them to resolve threats generally keeps you in the game. Without overextending, you can still resolve one or two mana dorks, setting you ahead in the mana game, and allowing you to go 1-1 in terms of lands and still stay out on top.
Edric also gives you a good backup plan if you can force a wrath on turn 4 by resolving Vig, and then playing another guy to tutor for Edric. Once they're tapped out, you can play Edric and anything else in your hand, and put them on a clock again.
3) Attrition: This is the preferred strategy against single target removal heavy decks like mono red burn, or Olivia Voldaren. Here, land denial won't do much since these decks also often play cheap threats, but combo-ing is impossible.
Instead, you take advantage of their reluctance to waste removal on mana dorks, to resolve Momir Vig, and while retaining priority, cast any one mana creature. Even though this means waiting till you have 6 mana in play - as opposed to 5 - you can still get there generally quicker than these decks can resolve a game winning threat.
Once you resolve the creature and tutor, getting Primeval Titan puts you in much better shape. The mana boost off of Cradle + a land will allow you to keep resolving Momir Vig, and then tutoring for more game ending threats like Regal Force and Tidespout Tyrant.
Change Log
December 09, 2012
- Essence Warden
+ Copperhorn Scout
December 14, 2012
-Chrome Mox
-Greenweaver Druid
+Sylvan Messenger
+Birthing Pod
December 23, 2012
-Sylvan Messenger
-Plow Under
+Masked Admirers
+Garruk, Wildspeaker
December 25, 2012
-Copperhorn Scout
-Skyshroud Ranger
+Elvish Scrapper
+Edric, Spymaster of Trest
September 30th, 2013
-Island
-Phantasmal Image
-Primal Command
-Spell Pierce
+Food Chain
+Elvish Mystic
+Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
+Swan Song
There's also a few ho-hum elves in here:
Are these purposeful choices, or are there just not enough excellent elves to fill the deck with?
Probably a mix of disagreeing with your valuations and imperfection on his part I think.
Imo, Copperhorn Scout >>>> Essence Warden
Comboing will outrace aggro burn anyway with 30 life.
1) Lands -> Absolutely right, Wasteland and Rishadan Port had been left out. Fixed now.
2) Copperhorn Scout vs. Essence Warden -> Also agree. Must not have been paying attention when I was looking through 1 CMC elves.
-Essence Warden
+Copperhorn Scout
3) Terastadon / Mystical Tutor / Personal Tutor -> Don't agree so much.
Primeval Titan remains an aggressive tutor target against burn based decks, and improves that matchup by a ridiculous %. These decks will generally save burn for Momir out of fear of you combo-ing, in which case you wait till you can resolve Momir, and while still retaining priority, cast another creature so you can tutor for Primeval.
Terastadon, on the other hand, I can really almost never see myself tutoring for. That means its only worth is as a Natural Order target, and this deck has a solid matchup against non-control anyway. Given this, I also am reluctant to put Mystical Tutor / Personal Tutor in, because card disadvantage only makes hard permission matchups that much harder.
4) Better elves
Wish they existed.
BTW I like this deck a lot. It makes me consider if I want to IRL build this or Animar (which would be nice in that they're mostly the same deck but I don't have to shell out for quite as many fetchlands, nor do I need to sink $300 into trying to get an Imperial Recruiter.)
Also, why aren't these cards included?
Elvish Spirit Guide
Mox Diamond
Concordant Crossroads
Vitalize
Sylvan Safekeeper
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Turn Aside
Intervene
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
There are generally three enchantments you want to kill:
1) Oath of the Druids
2) Survival of the Fittest
3) Humility
Viridian Zealot is too slow for the first 2, and useless for the third. Generally, Zealot was pretty underwhelming, especially since you want your elves to stay in play so you can tap them or have them add to Priest of Titania or Elvish Archdruid. If enchantments get to be a problem, I could re-add Zealot.
Though note that a lot of the enchantments you'd normally be scared off, like Moat, don't really bother this deck.
I tried Birthing Pod; combo elves just isn't the place for it. If you can sac Momir to get Primeval Titan, you can then get Regal Force and then Tidespout Tyrant. But if you don't want to sac Momir, or don't have him in play, Birthing Pod becomes so useless. Most of the deck is 1-2 mana, and the only interesting target for these creatures is Trinket Mage .
Elvish Spirit Guide: I dislike Card Disadvantage in this deck in order to gain speed. Even Chrome Mox is often super sketchy.
Mox Diamond: I found it so hard to make an opening hand with Mox Diamond work, since the deck only plays 32 lands + Land Grant. Unlike Animar, your win condition is 5 mana, not 3. You thus have to take a somewhat more balanced approach between speed and consistency.
Vitalize: As mentioned in the original post, I don't like "combo enablers". Given the ridiculously low amount of resources needed by this deck to combo, I'd rather not waste those spots on going more all in, but rather being able to survive if they stop you. Anyway, the difference between combo-ing is often literally 1-2 mana, so Vitalize may as well just be another mana dork.
Sylvan Safekeeper: If I remember correctly, I decided I don't like this card because single spot removal isn't really a threat (it's very easy to re-play Momir Vig when 1/3 your deck is mana dorks), but board wipes are. Now that I think about it, this card should probably be in regardless. I'll think of cuts.
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant: You want Erayo to work so much in a deck like this. Unfortunately, tutoring for Erayo A) Tells your opponent exactly what you're trying to do B) Means you already have Vig in play C) Means you also have 3 more spells you can play in hand. The alternative, just lucking into a board state that can activate Erayo is too unreliable, considering this deck actually has few ways to generate card advantage.
Turn Aside / Intervene: On a whole, you'd rather threats with this deck than answers. More specifically, Intervene / Turn Aside are back because they waste mana you really need. Consider you want to play Momir Vig against a horde deck you know is going to bolt him. You can wait till 6 mana and play Vig with counter back up. Or, you can play Vig with 1 mana open, play a one mana guy, and tutor for Primeval Titan. Which is ultimately the stronger play?
Dryad Arbor -> any 1 mana dork, probably Heritage Druid most likely or Nettle Sentinel or Wirewood Symbiote (at 0 CC, and with Trinket Mage in, possibly include Memnite? Dunno seems like maybe a wasted slot) but I do like the fact that with Land Grant, Zenith, and 4 fetches the access to the 0 CC creature to chain into a 1 CC creature is high.
Any one mana dork that's tapped and useless -> Coiling Oracle, Gilded Drake, Painter's Servant, Phantasmal Image, Spellskite
I see Pod as a viable tutor for pulling out the low CC combo creatures before Momir hits. Or even as backup removal protection, and as a useful toolbox (Flashing in Symbiote, Gilded Drake, Phantasmal Image, or Spellskite at instant speed is incredibly useful).
Plus, turn 1 llanowar elves, turn 2 Birthing Pod, turn 3 turn it into one of the 2 mana utility creatures seems like a tasty option that puts the opponent on a very short clock. In Standard turn 2 Pods usually led to one-sided games.
Looking forward to Gatecrash's Simic goodies, what types of cards are you looking more for (that either simplify the combo, add more speed/consistency, or protect like a boss), and what types of cards in the list are on your chopping block?
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Gaeas's Cradle doesn't pull itself enough to warranty Expedition Map?
With that in mind
-Chrome Mox - Card disadvantage in general just sucks in this deck. I can generally combo turn 4 anyway with no interruption, and Chrome Mox is too vulnerable considering the deck plays only 3 artifacts.
-Greenweaver Druid - Weakest elf
+Birthing Pod
+Sylvan Messenger - The deck needed a viable CMC 4 creature target for the birthing pod chain
Mystic Snake - If I can tutor with Vig out, I'd rather just go for Coiling Oracle and win (mostly).
Expedition Map - Cradle / Cavern of Souls is always nice. It also has interaction with Trinket Mage. I'll see if I can think of a cut to make.
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
Change both of vigs abilities to trigger off of green creatures, basically making every one mana elf you play an effective Eladamri's Call, then you proceed to combo off.
There's about seven of these color changing effects and they basically allow you to run a deck of all mana dorks, cantrips, and your one-two mana color changing wincons.
Trust me, playing a creature based combo deck in a 100 card format is really hard. Consistency and redundancy are key.
They were in fact considered. I'll quote from the original post:
I'm aware. The deck makes use of that combo right now, but with Painter's Servant.
They do no such thing, unless you want to auto scoop to control decks who can easily keep Momir Vig off the table when the rest of your deck consists of 0 threats.
What you've proposed is the furthest thing from consistent.
If only; Grindstone was banned at the same time that they unbanned Painter's Servant.
Sylvan Messenger generally drew me only 1 guy, and drew me 2 just as often as it drew me 0. As a result, I've switched it out for Masked Admirers, since:
1) It's more consistent
2) With Vig out, it can also tutor for Painter's Servant
3) It offers some greater resiliency to wrath effects
4) The extra 1 power is more relevant than trample (when killing Jace for example)
Meanwhile, Plow Under is too situational, and far worse than Primal Command, given that the extra tempo isn't worth the inconsistency, inability to deal with nonland permanents, and inability to also find me a tutor target.
In its place, I've put in Garruk 1.0, which is just an all around good card.
Birthing Pod is also pretty ridiculous, I'll admit; it's earned its spot here.
Even more meanwhile, I await with baited breath on goodies from GTC.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/103/238/635032499139636076.png
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Why no Sylvan Safekeeper? Protecting Vig and Painters Servant is top priority, no? This is fairly comparable to Spellskite, except it costs one less mana and can tutor with Vig.
Also, what do you do when Painters Servant gets hit with Swords to Plowshares, or whatever? How viable is the aggro plan against decks that are better equipped to interact on that axis? Is Edric, Spymaster of Trest legal to play as one of your 99, and would it be playable here?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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I tried Safekeeper. The general feeling I got out of it was:
1) It didn't do anything towards the deck's real weakness - sweepers
2) Targeted removal isn't generally that bad. This deck has such a plethora of mana anyway, I don't mind just recasting Vig indefinitely. Safekeeper also is useless versus the removal this deck hates the most: Jitte
3) This deck likes its lands. Or more accurately, this deck likes its mana (but also sometimes its lands when you have Quirion Ranger out). Generally when Im facing a deck packing a lot of single targeted removal, I wait till 6 mana, cast Vig and while retaining priority, cast another dude to search for Primeval Titan . Its an effective strategy that decks like Teysa or Olivia are hard pressed to stop, and once I have Cradle + Another land out, I can generally fight through removal to keep casting Vig until I combo.
Out of the 100+ games I've played, I've had Painter's Servant exiled I think under 5 times. The reason for this is obvious: Why wait to Swords Painter's Servant? That means having to let me resolve Vig and keep him in play; most decks are too wary of just Momir Vig to let him stay in play long enough to tutor for Painter's Servant.
Furthermore, Painter's Servant only hits the battlefield the turn I'm comboing. If they really did wait till that point to Swords, they'd have to do it in response to the creature I cast while retaining priority (since naming a color with Servant isn't responable). That means I know they've exiled Servant, and I can tutor for a creature accordingly - probably Primeval Titan or Regal Force. I thus end the turn in a really good board position anyway (since my last tutor target off Coiling Oracle is generally Heritage Druid, and I probably have the mana to cast my bomb that turn).
As for the beatdown plan, its not really that spectacular. Generally, if I know I cant combo, I'll just try and tutor for something big like Regal Force or Tidespout Tyrant to have a backup beater once they wrath. Primeval Titan getting Wasteland and Mutavault is also good.
I had initially been wary of Edric for the same reasons as Ezuri (if they're not your general, why tutor for them when you could tutor for the combo?). But now that I think about it, Edric has a lot more going for it than Ezuri - U and G, so he triggers Vig, draws cards (which is better in this deck than dealing damage), and requires little mana investment.
Given that Copperhorn Scout and Skyshroud Ranger have both been mediocre, and Jitte continues to be the worst, I'm making the following cuts:
-Copperhorn Scout
-Skyshroud Ranger
+Edric, Spymaster of Trest
+Elvish Scrapper
While we are throwing out suggestions, what are your thoughts on Ponder and Preordain? They may not be quite as nuts here as they usually are, but I think they warrant some consideration if you are 1) playing a combo deck, and 2) already packing Brainstorm. They might be better than one of the mediocre 2-drop mana dorks.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Glad to hear!
If only Zegana was 5 or 4 mana. Sigh. Well, then I'd probably replace Vig for her anyway.
At 6 mana, Zegana is super expensive, and will probably consume all your mana for the turn, to only draw maybe 3-4 cards. Unfortunately, she's just not worth it. In virtually all respects, Edric is a better tutor target.
GTC has honestly been incredibly lackluster (which sucks). Out of all the spoiled cards, only Zameck Guildmage looks playable, and I'm still debating that. Here's to hoping for at least one playable UG Elf out of the set.
-Island
-Phantasmal Image
-Primal Command
-Spell Pierce
+Food Chain
+Elvish Mystic
+Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
+Swan Song
After the legend rule chain, Image wasn't nearly as good. You can still tutor for Gilded Drake regardless.
Elvish Mystic was an easy replacement for it.
Primal Command ended up being too slow, and Food Chain should have been in from the beginning. It lets you combo from well below the minimum board position that would otherwise be necessary.
Spell Pierce is obviously sweet, but Swan Song is better in 9/10 instances (basically only when they're trying to resolve Jitte, but even then Pierce just buys you one turn).
Finally, Island gets cut for the new legendary land from Theros, which is basically Cradle #2 in the deck. Finally a good addition to the deck! Primeval Titan into Cradle + Nykthos is just a bit ridiculous.
Here's to hoping they eventually make a functional reprint of Coiling Oracle. But really, even any elf at UG would go a long way towards making this deck Tier 1 (since as it stands, its probably still not good enough).
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Unfortunately not , for reasons I expound on below.
Regal Force is necessary because it lets you finish a game midcombo when you have sufficient mana but lack creature spells in hand to start the Wirewood + Tidespout Tyrant loop. Or if you have mana and start the combo but Wirewood is just dead. Either way, its necessary.
As for Craterhoof Behemoth, it doesn't address the key weakness in the deck, which is the turn between resolving Momir + playing a creature to set up the combo (putting Coiling Oracle on top), and actually comboing. A wrath effect or even removal sets the deck back severely at that point, and makes recovering difficult.
That's why UG creatures are so essential, because they let you combo the turn you cast Momir - unfortunately, they don't print any good ones. Hence, why I decided to pilot Rafiq in the last MTGS tournament. I'm still hoping for Momir one day though.